The TRUTH About Nylon Tip Drum Sticks | Blind Test. Are they better than Wood Tips?
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The truth about Nylon Tip drum sticks. Are they better than wood tips? I've included a blind test. Let your ears be your guide.
So why do I use nylon tip sticks? If you happen to have seen my short on nylon tips then you know the number one reason is clarity. Another reason and this is a big factor is the durability. With Wood tip sticks they only last so long before the tips are worn out and don’t sound good on symbols. Nylon tips do not have that problem and are able to last much longer. And my final reason is consistency. The kind of goes along with durability but the tips are much more consistent than wood tips. Obviously you’re not gonna get flat spots on them nor are you gonna get chips.
Chapters:
0:00 - Intro
0:44 - Story Time
2:15 - Why I use Nylon Tips
3:23 - The Sticks for comparison
4:53 - Blind comparison
6:50 - Conclusion
7:07 - Reveal
Here is a gear list:
Sticks:
Vic Firth 8DN
Cymbals:
20" Old Stamp IIIc K Zildjian
20" New Stamp old K
14" Intermediate Stamp K Zildjian
Gretsch Drums:
18X14 (2018 Broadcaster)
12X8 (59 Roundbadge)
14X14 (59 Roundbadge)
14X5.5 (59 Roundbadge)
Recording Gear:
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
(2) AKG C1000s
BD - Audio Technica ATM250DE
SD - Audix D2 and SM57 Bottom
Blackmagic
ATEM mini ISO Extreme - เพลง
Which one is your favorite?
Always been a Nylon tip guy, lots of rock and country in the last few decades, only until the last few years have used wood tip due to a great deal more swing and jazz with certain bands, the darker tone fits better, that stick is a Vic Firth Peter Erskin Jazz Ride, that was left behind at a gig by Jeff Hill, an extremely masterful drummer with big band jazz. That stick is rear balanced, long taper and has a wonderful feel. All my other sticks are primarily Regal Tip ( which thank goodness I have many still in storage) , lately all my gigs are on the lighter side, so Firth 8DN, Promark rebound 7A Nylon, waiting for my backordered Vater New Orleans Jazz. All my rock gigs are still Regal 2B, I mean really, why work that hard, the stick does most of the work, Just Point and Shoot, LOL. Great Video, enjoy your approach !!!
great comparison!. Ive got some trusty studio headphones and i feel like the wood tips actually have plenty good attack. I'd say on the ride I felt the freq were a bit more evenly distributed.. and the nylon seemed to be a bit narrower.. crazy also how it altered the tone a little
I love blind tests like this! My clear favourites turned out to be 5A nylon and 7A nylon. I play 5A wood tip now. I owe you a beverage…..? This drum stick swap is going to cost me!
I liked #6 the most.
Was pleasently surprised at the revealation, as I played this model quite a lot as a begginer due to longevity :)
Man what quality content. Keep it up please. Fantastic resource!
Much appreciated!
That is exactly why I use them. You said it all in the first 5 minutes. Especially if you use some sand paper on the nylon tip. I just learned about this, and I can't believe it. Makes perfect sense to get the tip nice and smooth. I totally prefer the nylon tip all around. I can't believe drummers can't hear and prefer the articulation?
Great comparison ! Can you make a short video going into more depth about that grandmaster turk ride like the size and weight ??
I think stick 3 sounds perfect! Awesome I use Weckl nylons so not far off from the same stick.
Great video Tim!
Glad you enjoyed it
One of the most underappreciated aspects of drumsticks is the pitch of the wood. That can bring out drastically different undertones / overtones. I have an Old K that has all kinds of funk and trash in its wash. The mids will get overwhelming if I'm not using a low-pitched stick. It doesn't matter if the tip is hickory, maple, or nylon; the pitch of the wood needs to be G or lower.
Grip plays a huge part as well. Thanks for your comment!
Very strong comment, unless you play an e-kit, then none of that matters.
Interesting - I liked the 7As, both wood and nylon. I play 5A wood, so it looks like I should check out the 7s!
I like both! Wood tips are softer sounding in articulation.
Always liked the bounce, balance and durability of Regal Tip 5A. But some wood def sounds better on the ride.
Shout out to Skip’s Music in Sacramento!
Welp, I feel good about my differentiating score. I'm on team Nylon for similar reasons you named. I harbor ill-will for a chip and it's done from when $10/pair was a lot of money to me. For a minute I used a nylon for right riding hand and wooden for left drumming hand but abandoned that when I deemed it too silly.
Nowadays I do embrace wood tips for community concert band snare drumming (SD1 and SD2) and I like those Promark 5A finesse for my German band, spherical tips making rolls feel better. We drummers are an odd bunch...just not for the offensive reasons the other band members say. :D
Wow... #4 - 8D nylon tip sound awesome. It has great articulation and volume. It's still able to push out the low end of the Ride Cymbal as well.
That's why they're my favorite!
i play the elvin jones pro mark signature, and just ordered the bill stewart signature from zildjian..both are wood tips..
I recognized the 5A Nylon immediately, because I heard the sound I'm most familiar with. I think wood and nylon both have their applications. The smoothness of wood is great for jazz and other music where clarity and separation might not be the most important thing. For anything heavy rock/metal oriented, it's important to poke through a wall of guitars and get thos snappy, bright transients. For that kind of stuff I say nylon, all the way.
Also, I've never played 7A and 8D. It was nice to hear the comparison in tone. I should try some of these sticks myself at some point.
Yes! Exactly! I had to switch stick types several times a night according to the song!!!
Only one I got wrong was #2 lol. Great video
I saw many jazz drummers used nylon tip stick witch little skinny then 5a in history. I think nylon tip deliver clean sound and bounce well with jazz ride. It is big different between playing with other instruments and playing drums alone.
Always enjoy your videos - “really “ and I’m apparently terrible at this .. I took a guess at 3 & 4 the rest ,, I had no idea … I was right on 3 and wrong on 4😂
I liked #1 followed by #5 in second place. The rest weren’t enough difference for a preference.
I like wood tips better (to my ears)
But then a famous jazz player (better not mention his name because he’s a Vic firth artist) turned me on to a pair of regal tip 5A NE, which is like a ribbed nylon that is extremely durable and sounds more like a wood tip.
Then I got turned on to the new pro mark Carter McLean stick, and even tho it’s a little heavy for my preference, it sounds really good on the cymbal.
So yeah, I’ll do like I’ve always done the last 30 years and switch sticks about once a year just to keep it interesting
I'll try some nylon tips at rehearsal tonight, its with a big band so maybe the clarity ans brightness will help?
Man.... the 7A wood and 8D wood were my favourite. Nylons sound great too. I noticed the clarity with your 7's over the 5's. I play the SD2 Boleros... haven't seen a nylon tip version of that! Would be nice to get some clarity. Hate spending 11£ on a pair of sticks :/
Awesome! I wonder why there isn't a Nylon tip version of those? (probably sales numbers)
I too would be interested in such a beast, well the 5A rather than 2B thickness, with a smaller spherical nylon tip. Haven't come across anything like that.
@@TimMetz isn’t it always :/ thanks for the great videos! :)
The Regal Tip 5B nylon lacquer for R&R were my favorite for years, wish they’d make more or reopen one day, then any thin wood tip small bead stick for swing, lookin at you Mr.Erskin
Roland, give the Vic Firth Peter Erskin Jazz Ride stick a try, it's a small wood tip, with "Wonderful" balance, it's my fave for jazz/Swing....
Tim, great story about Lewis Nash! He's da man!. He used to teach at a drum camp I attended back in the 90's. I've been switching up on my gigs using nylon and wood tip. I just need to find a nylon tip stick with a 16" length or longer. Growing up around Chicago I only used to see Blues drummers using nylon tips. Their cymbal playing would cut through really well. Most those bands were incredibly loud. Ha! Thanks for the video! Great stuff.
Thanks so much!
Promark rebound 7A and Vic Firth 8DN are both 16", the signature Promark Mike Portnoy stick is 16 1/8" and slightly thinner than a 7a, a forward feel, amazingly loud...
I like how the wood is a counterbalance to the cymbal being used like the wood on a bright cymbal dampens it or adds to the darkness of one.
How about the difference between the shapes of the tips? Round vs. teardrop?
Great video. Answer is both, depending on situation. Need more cut while tracking a recording, grab a nylon pair. Playing a coffee shop at whisper level, wood tip (or just go with some rutes). Wood tip will have darker, woody tone. Nylon is brighter. I’m not sure I prescribe to the “ruining of the wood tip ruins the stick.” It’s more common to shred the shaft of the stick before the tip even gets too pointy, worn or damaged. Things really opened up for me in the studio and live when I started experimenting: playing different sized sticks, tips, and even having unmatched sticks in each hand. I regularly now play with an unmatched pair of sticks in each hand (Vic 55A in left hand, and Erskine Ride Stick in the right). Playing some djent and need to get above the low end chug? Nylon. I love a darker wood tip under a bright trumpet sound. Contrast creates space in the mix. Find what works for you in the situation, the given room… and always make a conscious decision to utilize the best tools for the song. Great channel. You have a new subscriber! Much success.
That's playing style. I wear out a tip before there is barely a mark on the shaft, probably because I play the top of my un-tilted hats, not the edge of the tilted hats. Back in the 70s I would shred the shaft and my sticks looked like dog chews.
I find nylons sound really good on some cymbals but not so good on others. I think every jazz drummer should own a pair.
I remember having a pair of Nylon tips when I was younger... that tip popped right of the end of the stick. haha I'm not convinced about longevity. but follow your sound! I did perceive them as louder and I didn't want that as a kid!
Based on the video I'm think the sound may have more to do with the the weight of the stick and shape of the tip regardless of being nylon or wood.
I remember that happening as well. Lol! Haven’t had that happen in a long time though. Thanks for your input!
I had the same thing happen many years ago. I really think they have pretty much solved that issue.
@@hawkrider88 Maybe I will give them another go sometime!
I absolutely love the sound of the 7a nylons which, even though I never have drummed yet, I guessed right based on the tone and brightness, if that is a thing.
Awesome!
Yep I switched over to nylon for your Second reason they don’t chip immediately making the stick useless.
for me the stick length and taper length is most important, and I prefer min 16.25" length with long taper (the Vater super jazz are perfect). Anyone know of a 16.25" long taper stick with a nylon tip? I can't find one!...
For me it depends on the gig, the cymbals I brought to the gig and the room. Is there a p.a? How loud is the band playing. I recently was the house drummer for a jazz jam, but the group was amplified. (In my opinion, a little bit too loud for the type of music, but not too loud for the type of venue)
After hearing other drummers sitting in, I realised the ride cymbals ( early 2000nds K contantinople) and a 50s vintage A ride had zero definition. Using a heavier nylon tip 5B helped the stick definition cut a little more, but in reality heavier cymbals would have been better suited to this situation or the drums should have had an overhead mic, seeing as the piano and bass were being put through a pa.
Nice video. I lean towards Nylon tips even though I like wood tips also but nylons last me 3 times longer because the wood tips chip with alot of life still left on the stick and its frustrating. Being an experienced drummer for many years I feel I have better control with Nylon tip sticks. 7a and 5a from Vater and Vic Firth have never let me down. Ive never broken a Nylon tipped Vic firth(and Nova's),only chewed down like a toothpick to throw out. 7a Manhattans nylons the same but a few have snapped but well worth it . These sticks sound the best on the Ride and hi hat in my opinion.
Thanks for checking it out!
Love the Dramatization part of the video 😂. The quiz I failed miserably. Interesting
Ha! Thanks! I would have as well. Thanks for watching!
Makes me want to try some nylon tip sticks.
You should!
Ever Since I was 2 years old I used to take out all of my Mother's pots, pans and wooden spoons! She let me bang on them with the skinny side to WABC am for hours! When the Nylon Tips came out I tried them and really liked the way they felt my hands, better than the wood! Much more responsive!
A couple comments to ponder / contrarian advocate:
1. If nylon is better, why don't any of the greats' signature sticks have them?
2. Could it be the nylon DO sound better when it's only drums recorded, however the frequency of the nylon being higher pitched creates trouble in a band setting cancelling out against guitars/horns,etc?
3. Durability is relative, I have only played nylon a hand full of times, but I do remember the whole tip coming off (glue snapping) and then your stick is TRULY useless. Wood sticks chip, sucks yes, but can be filed/sanded down to use a little longer (classy I know, lol)
Pondered and ready to retort. Lol!
1. Just did a quick search on Vic firth’s site and found the jack DeJohnette, Gadd, Buddy Rich, and Weckl signature sticks all come in nylon tip. They seem pretty great to me. 🤪
2. I don’t think there is that drastic of an increase in any frequency to cancel those instruments.
3. Same here when I was younger, but since I’ve been using the 8DN’s about 3 years now, I’ve never had a tip come off.
How did you do in the blind test?
Thanks for your comment!
#1. It sounds like a woody 7a. I'm totally wrong... Cool idea for a video. Nice shout out to Skips Music too!
Great ears man! Nailed it!
Great video!
I started using nylon tips in the 1960's when I started out in rock. Then I progressed through jazz and played much softer with the aid of professional jazz drummers helping me. Then I went to the Regal Tip Jazz-E which was sort of a compromise between nylon and wood. Then I went all 100% to wood tips and experimented with all the types of wood, sizes, shapes of sticks and tips variations. I compared all of these on all of my different cymbals of different shapes, sizes and weights.
Bottom line: I no longer own any nylon tips of any kind. I only own hickory sticks of different shapes and models, but all the same length. I only play jazz and light rock, pop and motown.
I am not criticizing or judging. This is just my personal preference.
Oh yeah, I refuse to play "sizzle" cymbals because metal-on-metal sounds make me cringe.
Use nylons with the L80 cymbals. Wood tips shred quickly on those. Full volume kit is all wood, all the time.
I think it depends on what the music needs do you know if you’re competing against guitarists then a nylon tip would be good if you’re playing louder music then The wood tip would be the best
Through my crappy laptop speakers, 3-5 sounded almost identical, although less so in the reveal. 7A wood sounded the best to me, and 7A nylon the worst. Overall I liked the wood tips better, although the 5A nylon was almost as good.
For some reason, I didn't find chipping to be a big issue with ball tips, but with barrel tips (which I am currently using), it's a huge problem. Although, when the ball tip finally chipped, it was more like a slice instead of a sliver. Still, I'll practice with chipped tips until the tip is worn away to almost nothing, otherwise I'd be throwing away sticks every week.
I thought the same about 3-5. Thanks for watching!
my favorite is #3 and # 6
7an have always been my favorites
I like the nylons because they give a slightly more lively bounce off my ride and high hat cymbals. But I use both type depending on the genre of music I’m playing along with.
Thanks for your input!
Odd, I find nylon has a slightly deader bounce, although I think it's more on my snare than my ride.
I always loved E-Series from RegalTip, their nylons head have ridges and soundwise it's somewhere between wood and classic nylon... sadly regaltip is no longer sold in Czech Republic
yes, 7A E series is my favorite but unavailable in the US too.
Regal tip is undergoing some changes right now. I'm not sure if they'll ever be back unfortunately.
Both are good... Nylon is better for QUIET playing. I was taught using ProMark 707s which are a WOODY wood tip for sure! IMHO
I think I liked #4 the most, but it‘s tricky. Which one of these is your favorite Tim?
I'm partial to the 8DN's. Not just for the sound, but for the feel. Thanks for watching!
I've played for 50-years! Nylon tips produce a far clearer cymbal attack, for HH, ride, and bell work. Wood tips are softer, so they wear quickly on these applications. Second, if you hit accurately and care about your heads, nylon wins again! I play all smooth heads all around, typically clear. I hate how a coated snare finish contaminates all the other skins...disgusting. If you start with a set of new all-smooth heads and use nylon tips, they will last a LONG time. Finally, the size of the tip matters a lot. For rock, medium or large tips are best, especially on the bell. GO NYLON! Thanks for the video.
1: wood
2: wood
3: nylon
4: nylon
5: wood
6: nylon
maybe?
Nylon tips all they way. Yes wood tips break down and wind up sounding mushy. Nylon give the cymbal a nice ping and do have more articulation and never beak down.
There's no right answer, obviously. It's an artistic match to the music itself.
With that said, wow. In isolation, the wood is just richer sounding in the lower tones and setting up resonances. Nylons have a give-away plasticky transient but create more of a treble edge. Which could be better in some cases. But the real cymbal magic is in the wood sticks and I'd definitely say for a solo that the wood is the clear winner.
i commented on ur april fools video about nylon tips cos i thought the nylon tips were a joke in themself dave king compares them to preferring metal spoons on metal pots and pans as a child
Lol! I missed that one. I'll go back and check it out.
I still prefer wood tips because I find the nylon has a thin sound that doesn’t provide the lower undertones that blend with the rest of the band. I also buy 6-8 pairs of the same stick at a time so no one stick gets worn too quickly at the tip.
How did you do on the blind test?
@@TimMetz I really just listened, but then when you revealed the results at the end, I went back and checked it out again. The ones I heard the first time that had more undertones were the wood tips. BTW, I use VF AS5A, which has a round tip. This gives a lot of definition while still giving the warmness of the wood. Try them and see what you think.
That is awesome! Exactly the way I wanted this video to work. Thanks so much for your comments and checking out the video! I'll give the AS5A's a shot. I'm kind of a one trick pony when it comes to sticks. I've been loving the 8DN's for some time now. Thanks again!
@@TimMetz Absolutely. Well done. I found that model back in the 90s (I think) and I’ve stuck with them. If they ever discontinue them, I’m screwed.
One thing though, I had a very nice ride cymbal that was ruined by the stick marks from these nylon tipped turds. You've gotta remember that whatever material the stick is made of will become part of the cymbal itself with so many millions of hits. Especially true in less smooth ride cymbals, more little ridges for the stick marks to build up in. Better for the stick marks to be wooden and make the sound more natural and mellow than plastic which obviously has no musical qualities whatsoever.
Sorry to hear about your cymbal!
@@TimMetz ah it would have lost its pristine crystal clearness with time anyway but I've never known it to be so fast as with nylon tipped. I'd discourage using all paint coated and plastic sticks for this reason. It's just crap imo.
I really like nylon tip sticks for several of my ride cymbals but am bummed by their environmental impact. I wonder if the tips could be made to be biodegradable.
Maybe make tips on a 3D printer out of the commonly used "PLA" material which is biodegradable.
Man, I think you're on to something. I wish I had more pull in the industry to ask. Maybe if we all start asking for that? Thanks!
Perhaps the environmental impact is offset by the durability resulting in less waste.
5A nylon all day
3 is wood for sure....I think
#3 and #4 maybe #6
1 - least favorite. 2 - too sharp. 3 - nice. 4 - sounds like 3. 5 - favorite. 6 - sounds like 3/4. So, I take 5 (see what I did there)
Love what you did there. lol!
A blind test would be irrelevant to me, I also play guitar and see lots of videos with blind tests of amp modelers vs tube amps, and the same applies, when it comes to creating music, feel matters more than some realize.
That's way a, 'blind test' is good! It lets you use your body's other senses To help you make your determination!
8d nylon and wood.
Your clip makes seriously consider going nylon. I was a big Regal Tip 5a nylon for awhile. I just hate when wear takes place on the wood tip and the tone changes.
All very good points but I just think plastic on a cymbal sounds like plastic on a cymbal to my ear. It's a thin sound and I prefer more of a click. I used plastic for quite a long time when I played heavier more back beat type music. But now I play jazz almost exclusively and wood tips sound the best on my ride and give me the sound I like. I use Vic firth sd2 bolero. A lot really depends on the weight and taper of the stick itself... And how you play it obviously. It's not just the tip.
That was a hard test! But I'm guessing 2,3 and 6 are plastic
2 out of three! I was surprised at how similar they all ended up sounding as well. Thanks for watching!
#2 nylon
Did you watch the reveal at the end?
@@TimMetz Yes abc I was completely wrong! Thanks for the awesome video👍🏼
@@FootyEmpire That's awesome! I thought #2 would get a few people. Thanks for watching!
Woodlife
You chose the nylon tips as your favorite I'm certain.
Wood only . Period
So which one was your favorite?
@@TimMetz Certainly & A is way too small. Didn't pay much atten. Is the 5 a 5A. That's minimum. I like a 16and 7/8 Vic Firth x55b stick. LOng and meaty for me. All wood.
I used to think the same way. My sd10’s and MJC4’s were .610, 16.13” and .595, 16.38” Turns out I really like the 8DN’s which are .540 and 16” who knew. You’re right #5 was a 5A. All the sticks are revealed at the end of the video.
Stop messing with my religion!
So how did you like the pair I gave you?
I like nylon tips but I hate dents on my heads when the tips break off in the middle of playing. No thanks.
3a gang?
Funny - I picked #3 - #4 - #6 - Couldn't decide, but they were all nylons, lol - Nylons have quicker ring response and sustains nicely.