Very Good that you have the Boat now up to current BSS Standards, and you are in the process of making a completely new set of Electrical Diagrams, for future reference. Having the Two, functions, physically separated and isolated will not only function better, but will provide peace of mind for all involved. Good Job, especially for all of Georges faithful supervision through the ordeal.
I have thought about many things that could go under the bed, but having your electrical system there seems like the best idea. When you need access you have wonderful access. I think this beats about anywhere else on your boat that it could be placed.
It's worked out well, though mainly because it's lithium (most lead acids off gas and need ventilation)... wouldn't want to have a fire get or start under there, but that's why you triple check all the work. M
Beautiful job. For future reference, my preferred time estimate rubric is: estimate the time you'll need, double that, and then use the next higher unit. Thus, a three hour job becomes six days.
Terrific job. As you said, it was worthwhile. You will love being able to access all the domestic connections so easily and with so much space. I can imagine the stress. I have had my equivalent stressful projects around the house. Never enjoyable, but always good to have them completed. I did like the clip of George on his back being petted by the folks walking by. Tough life for George. LOL Dave.
Michael and Joe I am very impressed with your wiring update. It's nice and tidy and well labeled. It's all future proofed now. Circuit breakers is the way to go. As a Qualified Electrician and Electronics Technician i dubb you now qualified. Cheers Eric Bodell QSM RTC EST IST FFBI.
Given your efforts I’d forget laminating the wiring diagramme and sticking it under your bed, I’d have it framed and hang it on the wall ! Very interesting vlog - thanks
Just a word, from a retired Engineer, your new installation look very neat and tidy, the proof is it also works. I am sure you will have less problems with the new set up which is physically isolated both in function and location. Working on either will be less problematic than the previous layout. Yes, it uses up more physical space which is at premium on a narrowboat. not having to work in cramped quarters should either battery system require future maintenance, at least you should have more room to work on the item inquisition.
Really would not have wanted to go anywhere near that mass of wires. Huge respect to both of you for getting stuck in. It's always fun watching someone else working ;-) Sad old maintenance engineer that I am (or used to be), I found myself watching avidly and even gave a little cheer when the engine started!
Thanks, I’m pretty impressed we managed to film so much and make sense at the same time. It was a pretty stressful process! Glad you found it interesting! Jo
I finally got my husband to watch! He's an Electrician here and is helping his brother build his skoolie. So where everyone put's their batteries interests him. You make a good team, I don't know if we would have still been speaking had we been doing the same job in such tight space. Now can you get back on the cut. It's too hot here to gongoozle the canals in NY this week.
We're lucky to have a pretty great relationship... I'm not on speaking terms with parts of the boat now, but we're good! Glad he's watching, hope he didn't hate our work! Cheers, and keep cool!! M
He was a little concerned at first, until he saw you shielded the batteries, he thought it was a good job but he can only really comment on "American and NY Code" and it looked like it was "Code" to him. And he's even more interested now that he know's that Michael has done "Code" on some of his favorite movies. I'm married to a Sci-Fi geek too.
Well lucky you! SciFi geeks are the best kind of geeks! I wish electrical work were as easy as coding for the movies... my work on Transformers: Dark of the Moon was very unlikely to kill anyone if I got it wrong. Although, to be fair, enabling Michael Bay might end up doing more overall damage to humanity. M
I very much have to agree with David, a very nice job, and to draw and laminate. Even better idea. Jo did a nice job under there as well. Glad to see she was wearing a mask that type of mixture of rust and acid is nasty. Well interesting video thanks. looking forward to the next.
Having done a similar job on a much smaller scale, I have to say "Bravo" to both of you. I can only imagine the feeling of relief and pride when you could say "it's done!"
Splendid episode. Both informative and dramatic. The final reconnection of the starter battery, with the increasing tension as one stage after another was completed was worthy of a Star Trek sequence where Scotty is rebuilding the warp drive to escape the Klingons, and IT STARTS FIRST TIME. No wonder Jo shouts for joy. Oh, neat George cameo with the kids
That looked like a pig of a job , but you must feel really proud of yourselves, everything looks so neat now ,lovely job, interesting film , all the best to you both.
Excellent work, I did see one minor thing you did wrong but you said to keep quiet so I will. Procedural, not mechanical.LOL. I did notice you removed your wedding band, Very smart when working with wrenches and electrical connections. I melted one of mine on my finger, I now have a wedding scar. First my back hurt seeing you working in the engine bay.................... then it really hurt seeing Jo wedged in there like a crushed pretzel! Amazing. Like you said it was a nasty job but now that it is done you can take pride in the fact that you did it yourselves and did it without letting the magic smoke out. Jono will be proud of you.
Yeah I've known some people with similar scars, wasn't taking any chances! And my back also hurt just watching Jo; she never ceases to amaze me! Cheers! M
So very tidy!! its looking good Jo and Michael. Its good to see what can be done. Managing it yourselves. Glad to see you al looking so well.Hope you are coping with the heat! Take care xxxx
The heat has been a bit much, you basically can't do anything once it gets up to the temperatures we've had the last week. So glad global warming isn't a thing anymore! ;-) M
I finally got round to watching this one. What a great job! Great plan, great execution. And that wiring! Reminds me of the time a project manager pissed off the city inspector, resulting in the rewiring of a 3 story building!
Wow people that was a great video, thanks for sharing and you must be really proud of the end result. Hope the beds back together and proper sleep has been restored..
Loved the vlog. What a epic episode. Hope you are enjoying some relaxing cruising now and I’m sure the battery’s are preforming as they should be. Love to George. 😀
They have been performing beautifully, and the cruising has been good (if HOT)... mainly looking forward to not having to worry about them over the winter! M
Great job! I blame Jono for his in depth knowledge of the battery system. Looks so much better and at least more space to store stuff and easier for upgrades
Hi looks like you did a very good job of cleaning up that area where the batterys were Jo, and it looks like there was not much room to work in well done, moving the batterys to under the bed and the new wiring set look ok , now go off and do some crusing.
That is a mammoth job and the result is a real credit to you both. A very tidy and safe looking install. A really interesting vlog, I may have to revisit my electrics on Percy that are pleasingly in their own engine room so much easier to get to. It is a great example of what living aboard is like, especially when DIY’ing. Well done treat yourself to some cruising !
When i saw all those cables, and i am sure i am not the only one, my jaw hit the floor, and my eyes went wide, spaghetti on a plate to me, sorry but i am electronically dumb, well-done guys, well done indeed. I saw a great job the Cruising TheCut had done explaining the basics about Batteries wich i found very helpful, but what you did was amazing.
It's all fairly straightforward, ONCE you've got it labeled and can keep track of what the heck does what. Really I wish you could have seen the real mess we had before we installed the lithiums last year; believe it or not it was MUCH worse! Cheers! M
Congratulations guys on a excellent job, well done Jo on the painting. I know how much of a pain that had too be getting into such a small space. Hopefully you two can get back to enjoying the summer sunshine without a lot of hassles coming around to bother you.
It's a scary, difficult job, but the better you can understand the connections and the scope of it before staring, the better! Wish we'd done more of that! M
Well done, excellent job and very informative. The end result was well worth the effort & will definitely help with any changes in the future! Also excellent shots of what you could video appreciating the need to have more power when none available!! Keep up the good work👍
Thanks! We do feel better now, post work. We both miss Wellington though, loved it down there, and really miss the motorcycle I used to ride around the harbor! M
Wow, that's impressive I had no idea you spoke Greek..and now I finally understand the phrase...It's all Greek to me....cause my eyeballs turned inward after about two minutes. I would have run screaming home at the size and scope of that job. Congratulations, you each seem to have found what you are best at. Well done. Me, I'm going down for a nap you've worn me out.
Just an idea, have your bilge pump permanently wired to the starter battery with its own fuse. That way if you leave the boat for a few days , you can take the master isolator keys with you, safe in the knowledge that the pump will keep any water out. Otherwise, nice job, looks very neat. Should make life easier in the future.
It's actually in there with its own fuse, though right now the positive connector is on the other side of the isolator. Good point though, I'll have to move it to the other side! M
getting electrocuted from 12 volts, you have a good sense of humor ;-). shorting out a large battery is of-course the real danger, you can get serious burns and the darn thing can explode. in the end a rely nice job.
Yeah it’s mainly the idea of welding my wedding ring on and burning through flesh I worry about... I know from grim experience that I don’t like the smell of me cooking! M
Well that was hardly any effort at all! ;) I do think you've highlighted a significant fact for any single boater looking for a partner to share their boat life...go for someone small and flexible! Joking apart, really interesting vlog! I hope you've caught up on your sleep now :)
Or be the one whose small and flexible! No one says it's gotta be the boys who are large and stubborn! And yeah, finally getting rid of the sleep deficit! M
Wow amazing job you must feel very accomplished. You can sleep easy knowing, "you have the power" which is the knowledge. So much to think about with boat ownership but it must be plain sailing now....unless something goes wrong with the engine ekkk!! At least your not in the middle of the Atlantic and there's a pub nearby, well deserved drink at the end.
Nice job. What a wonderfully organized electrical setup. I love that Jo is so involved. Nice example for the other ladies that woman can do anything! You'll want to remove the masking tape from the glass in the bow doors. The longer is sits on there, in the sun, the more likely you'll end up with a lot of adhesive residue. Just a suggestion, trying to be helpful. (If it's too late, a razor blade will remove the crusty residue quite well.)
CallmeRogerRoger WD40 is brilliant at removing adhesive, had to do on my ex royal mail van with all the health and safety stickers inside on the paintwork and glass
Never used WD40, but a couple of years cleaning up flight cases after shipping showed me that Ronsinol lighter fluid does the same! Good to know about WD! M
Very informative, it makes sense that one shouldn't put lead-acid batteries inside. But I'm not sure everyone would know that or even think twice about it. So with all the labeling and attention to detail, were warning labels put on the battery boxes so that others wouldn't replace them with anything but Lithiums? I don't need to know the answer. I just thought for safety's sake that it would be prudent to say something on the off chance warning labels weren't put on the boxes.
Label the wires with masking tape and a fine permanent marker as you disconnect them so that you know where they came from. I do this on aircraft wiring when I have to take plugs apart, and curse pwople who haven't when I have to take over from them and put things back together! I know this is too late for you guys, but this might help other people reading this!
We use a proper label maker (as neither of us have reliant legible handwriting), but yes any label at all is better than no idea what end of the spaghetti goes where! M
Interesting when you mentioned the bow thruster, I had earlier in the year been wondering if any narrowboats employed them. Dang, that battery move qualifies as an epic event.
Yeah, that wasn't the most fun. And now thrusters are pretty common on newer boats and especially wide beams, less common on narrowboats of our vintage. Worth their weight in gold when reversing, but a lot of people who are jealous make fun of them. M
Looks great! I really like that you now have storage for the engine essentials right next to your engine. The underbed layout looks nice and easy to work on as well. I like that you put all the batteries in those chemical proof non conductive boxes, not so much for the LI batteries but the lead acid battery that is really nice. My only concern would be the extra heat you might be adding to the bedroom by having the charging batteries in there but they will be under the mattress, and you vented them so it might just become something you can ignore in Summer, and pretend helps in winter. I will say that the one thing I saw that I might have done different, and maybe it was that the existing one wasn't visible, is I would have added either a 12V or Multiport USB outlet over the bed for overnight phone charging while sleeping. In the end the boat will be better for the work you have done because the maintenance will be a lot easier to do and do right.
The 12V outlet isn't a bad idea at all ... might do that. We have two nearer the front of the boat, but running the phones up to the chargers every evening is a bit of a pain! N
Having just upgraded to lifepo4 fitted under the bed and removed the lead from the engine bay and fitted a dcdc mppt controller. I estimated 3 to 5 days. It took 3 so far i still have the mess from under the old lead ones to clean up but the rest is just about done. I can't believe just how much excess wiring they put in for no apparent reason .
Hi, I’m fitting out a sailaway narrowboat - I’ve also got Relion RB lithium batteries and a Barrus Shire engine with 150amp alternator. You did a fantastic job and your video has been invaluable to me! ... could you let me know if you’ve had to make any adjustments for the alternator? .... I’ve read that lithium batteries can cause the alternator to overheat, which will damage the alternator and possibly the batteries? ....
We’ve made no changes to the alternator setup from what came with the boat. Can’t think of any particular way the batteries could cause the alternator to overheat, assuming everything is connected up the right way round, unless the voltage out of the alternator was so poorly regulated this that BMS kept disconnecting. Voltage out of ours seems to be pretty consistent, though, so don’t think that’s ever happened. M
Thanks for the quick and helpful reply Michael. I’d read that ‘a lithium battery can put a lot of load on an alternator and have it working flat out for an extended time’ which can cause the alternator to burn out. ...It seems to me that if the alternator is of a good quality, then this shouldn’t be an issue. .... do you know if your alternator is a Barrus Shire 150amp unit?
It’s a 100A alternator, though only the smaller 50A one has the Barrus name on it. Not sure who manufactured the larger, but I seem to remember it looking like Hitachi. M
Such are the workings of the TH-cam algorithm, that this only came up today; Wednesday 8th April 2020. Britain is in lockdown because of a lethal virus and we are all trawling TH-cam for interesting things to watch. I watch Minimal List religiously - usually saving it for some moment when I can watch undisturbed - yet somehow I have missed this for nearly two years? To say I'm impressed is a very great understatement - I am in awe. That was a monumental undertaking and three days ("Tree dace" as 72 hour Ahmed says) was never going to happen. I liked the 3 days squared estimate best, but even that was optimistic. However, wiring and rewiring narrowboats is not your chosen profession and I've seen 'professionals' do far, far worse. As an ex MRI Scanner engineer, I can only offer two very firmly vertical thumbs and my deepest respec'. However, your statement about laminating the 'final' wiring diagram and putting it with the batteries - the perfect ending - begs a question that has been bothering me since seeing the original rat's nest. Did you have a diagram to start with, who designed the modifications and have you got hand drawn drafts? (Okay, three questions;) I have begun equally complicated jobs with both original and as desired (as modified) drawings and still ended up confused and concerned with the outcome. I have rarely done jobs in such restricted space though. Except on Mobile MRI's and they are a feckin nightmare. So, if you read this, how has the installation been working, did you ever draw the 'final layout' and how would you design a new boat? Well done both of you for successfully doing a very difficult job, doing it well and making an interesting vlog of the task.
Thanks for that! We did a rough sketch, but never actually got around to drawing it out and laminating it. We had what Liverpool Boats called a “typical wiring diagram”, which basically meant “this is what it’d look like, in theory, if the person who bought the boat ordered zero options and the guy doing the install wasn’t either bored, drunk, or colorblind”. It bore no meaningful relationship to the actual rat’s nest of essentially all the same colored wire. We did what we could. I used to wire up quite complicated video installations, with dozens to hundreds of BNC connectors all running around like mad... I’ve got to say the boats are worse! If I were doing it all from scratch the main thing I’d do is put in some actual trunk conduit and cable control, rather than threading it all through rough cut holes in MDF. There’s no reason for it to be such a mess! M
Great vid as usual. I looked at the Lithium route as well. One leading manufacturer (I never went looking elsewhere if there is much of an elsewhere) said do not charge below 5C. I never got as far as investigating twin or more battery management, but the temp thing is something to double check before the cold days.
The manufacturer says to limit charge current to 1/10th C (which in this case is 10A) at 0C or below... the reality is our solar system doesn't normally get that high on days that cold, and our engine isn't usually running either (doesn't make sense when iced in), so this is more of a precaution than anything else. Where they are now, under the bed, 0C will simply never happen, so we don't need to worry at all. M
I hope my comment came across very respectfully. Michael, you have done your research and a super vid of a very tough job done well. Just for clarity my research (I went and looked at a few rough notes as never got far) centred on Victron. Essentially they say (their offering and a name in the market) down to 5C is good. Another article, not so sure on for accuracy as not cross checked, said charging below 0C is a bit unchartered. Overall my impressions (I would be non liveaboard all year) were it's not quite there yet as potential exist (in my potential narrow boat experience) for even new Lithium science batteries to work out very poentially very expensive options with current gen tech. It was just my findings from a couple of hours a couple of months back......................Reference here www.victronenergy.com/accessories/smart-battery-sense and here....marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/ if anyone gives a crap:).............My best to all
Yeah, the latter is the main source people point to ... I have, shall we say, issues with what he's written, how he's written it, and how he's approached the entire topic. I think he exaggerates a lot, and while he has strongly held (and borderline racist) opinions, he's also heavily biased towards the extreme end of DIY "science" projects. Are we taking a chance on being wrong? Sure. This might end up being the worse option, though at the LUDICROUS expense of a Victron system at the time I was looking, and this being the article every Victron dealer likes to point at, I rather think I won't have wasted nearly as much as someone who went with Victron if I'm right and he's exaggerating the issues of a good integrated BMS drop-in (which is what ReLion purports to be). They've since dropped their price, but at the time I was looking Victron had its batteries selling on at least many thousand percents markup over what appeared to be the cost of LiFePO4 cells at the time. It's in their best interests to point people at resources that scare people towards their massive markups. If we were plugged into shore power I'd want a better charger than the one I've got, but we're not. If we weren't constantly drawing voltage such that the batteries spend the majority of their day at about 13.8V, I'd be more concerned. I've set up the MPPT to float at 13.5V, so there's no long 14.8V float like he's worried about to begin with. I rely on the integrated BMS to do the job of protecting us from over voltage and/or over current ... that may not be the right choice or combination, but so far it's been performing fine. I'm hoping it continues to do so and gives me the life I'm hoping for (though I started with the assumption that would be half of what the manufacturer was suggesting)... we'll see, and we'll report back. What I'm really not worried about now is the temperature issue... the area where they're at does not get close to or below 0C, which is the only place where charge performance is undefined with these batteries. Anyway, it's all an experiment... I'm fine with what our setup is, we'll see if I'm right or not in the long run. M
Well done, it was hard work but we got through it, I need another mug of tea now. I must say Michael was looking a bit bedraggled towards the end, I'm almost tempted to ask if his comb is electric too and he couldn't charge it up, but after being hot and worn out he might not get the joke :)
At about 15½ minutes in I'm wondering if it's just coincidence that there's a rip in Michael's jeans at about the same height as the latch on that door. Looks like a nice job though, bet you're glad it's over. Are the batteries et cetera all under your bed now? I wasn't entirely sure, but it looks that way; handy space for them now that the black water tank's gone.
I don't believe that tear was from that specific latch, but I'm willing to blame it in general. Yes, the domestic (lithium) batteries and their connections are now under the bed, while the starter and its wiring remain in the engine bay. This was part of the reason we struggled to take out the old poo tank! M
I've been thinking of a heat detector more than a smoke detector, but yeah it would be nice to have something, even for the VERY low risk that exists. M
Narrowboaters... reluctant electricians, mechanics, plumbers, carpenters, metal workers, painters, sewage workers and forum warriors. What price independence and tranquility? Well... higher than you think.
No, there are ways you could lock it, but it's pretty rare that they have a lock, as unfettered emergency access is pretty important to maintain. Odds are no one can steal the engine. So the main nod to security is just removing the isolator key on the starter circuit. Cheers! M
Very Good that you have the Boat now up to current BSS Standards, and you are in the process of making a completely new set of Electrical Diagrams, for future reference.
Having the Two, functions, physically separated and isolated will not only function better, but will provide peace of mind for all involved. Good Job, especially for all of Georges faithful supervision through the ordeal.
George did an excellent job of supervision on that job! M
WELL DONE THAT MAN & WOMAN. Kind regards Terry Hammond
Thanks! M
Really impressed with your electrical modifications and your wife's ability to help as much as she did. Well done girl.
She's pretty badass! In fact she could do all of it, except that I've been shown over the years to be pretty good at surviving electrocution! M
Fabulous job. Hubby was fascinated.
Glad he enjoyed! M
Well done. That wiring setup looks livable now
It’s worked well for a year now, knock wood! M
I have thought about many things that could go under the bed, but having your electrical system there seems like the best idea. When you need access you have wonderful access. I think this beats about anywhere else on your boat that it could be placed.
It's worked out well, though mainly because it's lithium (most lead acids off gas and need ventilation)... wouldn't want to have a fire get or start under there, but that's why you triple check all the work. M
Beautiful job. For future reference, my preferred time estimate rubric is: estimate the time you'll need, double that, and then use the next higher unit. Thus, a three hour job becomes six days.
Terrific job. As you said, it was worthwhile. You will love being able to access all the domestic connections so easily and with so much space.
I can imagine the stress. I have had my equivalent stressful projects around the house. Never enjoyable, but always good to have them completed.
I did like the clip of George on his back being petted by the folks walking by. Tough life for George. LOL
Dave.
Hah, yeah George was really suffering out there! Thanks for that! We are feeling like it was totally worth it, albeit painful! M
Michael and Joe I am very impressed with your wiring update. It's nice and tidy and well labeled. It's all future proofed now. Circuit breakers is the way to go. As a Qualified Electrician and Electronics Technician i dubb you now qualified. Cheers Eric Bodell QSM RTC EST IST FFBI.
Thank you! I like being dubbed! M
Given your efforts I’d forget laminating the wiring diagramme and sticking it under your bed, I’d have it framed and hang it on the wall ! Very interesting vlog - thanks
I'm not against that idea! Thanks! M
Great job guys. Much better in terms of layout and tidier and easier to understand too.
Thanks! M
Just a word, from a retired Engineer, your new installation look very neat and tidy, the proof is it also works. I am sure you will have less problems with the new set up which is physically isolated both in function and location. Working on either will be less problematic than the previous layout. Yes, it uses up more physical space which is at premium on a narrowboat. not having to work in cramped quarters should either battery system require future maintenance, at least you should have more room to work on the item inquisition.
Thankfully I must have done something right, as we haven't had to touch it since! M
Really would not have wanted to go anywhere near that mass of wires. Huge respect to both of you for getting stuck in. It's always fun watching someone else working ;-)
Sad old maintenance engineer that I am (or used to be), I found myself watching avidly and even gave a little cheer when the engine started!
Thanks for the cheer! It probably helped, albeit maybe via time travel! M
This has to be one of your best videos. It was easy to understand everything you accomplished. Good work.
Thanks, I’m pretty impressed we managed to film so much and make sense at the same time. It was a pretty stressful process! Glad you found it interesting! Jo
Someone has electrical experience or is just a very good researcher. Good work.
A decent researcher with a bit of my dad's flight engineer genetics to boot! M
Brilliant, you have turned electricity into an art form.
Hah! It feels like painting with fingers, at best! M
I finally got my husband to watch! He's an Electrician here and is helping his brother build his skoolie. So where everyone put's their batteries interests him. You make a good team, I don't know if we would have still been speaking had we been doing the same job in such tight space. Now can you get back on the cut. It's too hot here to gongoozle the canals in NY this week.
We're lucky to have a pretty great relationship... I'm not on speaking terms with parts of the boat now, but we're good! Glad he's watching, hope he didn't hate our work! Cheers, and keep cool!! M
He was a little concerned at first, until he saw you shielded the batteries, he thought it was a good job but he can only really comment on "American and NY Code" and it looked like it was "Code" to him. And he's even more interested now that he know's that Michael has done "Code" on some of his favorite movies. I'm married to a Sci-Fi geek too.
Well lucky you! SciFi geeks are the best kind of geeks! I wish electrical work were as easy as coding for the movies... my work on Transformers: Dark of the Moon was very unlikely to kill anyone if I got it wrong. Although, to be fair, enabling Michael Bay might end up doing more overall damage to humanity. M
Good job guys. You make a great team.
Thanks! M
Holy cow...what a process! I hope you all were moored up by some fantastic pubs, restaurants and other handy establishments! Excellent job!
One pub, and a bit of a drive to all the hardware... thankfully there was a decent pizza joint within driving distance! M
Nice one! Thanks for the upload!
Thanks for the download! M
Beautiful job. I want to eat a meal off the underbed battery setup, it's so clean.
Do you think you'd fit?
You're welcome for a nice egg a la unexpected short any day! M
I very much have to agree with David, a very nice job, and to draw and laminate. Even better idea. Jo did a nice job under there as well. Glad to see she was wearing a mask that type of mixture of rust and acid is nasty. Well interesting video thanks. looking forward to the next.
OCD DAVID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Having done a similar job on a much smaller scale, I have to say "Bravo" to both of you. I can only imagine the feeling of relief and pride when you could say "it's done!"
Apparently pride and relief feels like complete exhaustion and a desire to never, ever, ever do that again! M
Great job. Now for all the work JO did I think she deserves a few date nights of her choice
Anytime she wants to collect, I'm free! M
Splendid episode. Both informative and dramatic. The final reconnection of the starter battery, with the increasing tension as one stage after another was completed was worthy of a Star Trek sequence where Scotty is rebuilding the warp drive to escape the Klingons, and IT STARTS FIRST TIME. No wonder Jo shouts for joy. Oh, neat George cameo with the kids
Hah! We've been compared to Montgomery Scott!! Now THAT is high praise!!! Cheers! M
many thanks, I will now spending time sorting out batteries and wiring Buff
Good luck!
Awesome. All you need to do now is add a stern thruster to make parallel mooring easier. :-)
That looked like a pig of a job , but you must feel really proud of yourselves, everything looks so neat now ,lovely job, interesting film , all the best to you both.
It wasn't fun, but glad it's over! Thanks! M
Wow, what a job but truly satisfying, well done Team!!!! (including the hardest worker, George!)
He did do his part! And, to the many balls that gave their lives to help him, we salute you! M
definitely well thought out and executed...... just wanted to come and help, but of course i am seeing this, so its all finished now
Yep! But thanks for the thought! M
Excellent work, I did see one minor thing you did wrong but you said to keep quiet so I will. Procedural, not mechanical.LOL. I did notice you removed your wedding band, Very smart when working with wrenches and electrical connections. I melted one of mine on my finger, I now have a wedding scar. First my back hurt seeing you working in the engine bay.................... then it really hurt seeing Jo wedged in there like a crushed pretzel! Amazing. Like you said it was a nasty job but now that it is done you can take pride in the fact that you did it yourselves and did it without letting the magic smoke out. Jono will be proud of you.
Yeah I've known some people with similar scars, wasn't taking any chances! And my back also hurt just watching Jo; she never ceases to amaze me! Cheers! M
So very tidy!! its looking good Jo and Michael. Its good to see what can be done. Managing it yourselves. Glad to see you al looking so well.Hope you are coping with the heat! Take care xxxx
The heat has been a bit much, you basically can't do anything once it gets up to the temperatures we've had the last week. So glad global warming isn't a thing anymore! ;-) M
The homer shirt sets the tone for your mindset when it comes to sorting things out on boats always ends in stress 🙃
Yep. Always channel Buddha Homer... M
I think you should both go into boat renovation /upgrade very nice job 👍
Ha, that would be far too stressful!
I finally got round to watching this one. What a great job! Great plan, great execution.
And that wiring! Reminds me of the time a project manager pissed off the city inspector, resulting in the rewiring of a 3 story building!
Thank the gods I'll never have to do this on a three story boat. M
Great job. Very comprehensive. Any future owner is going to have a great boat!
We sure hope so! Cheers! M
Fascinating Video. The pair of you make a GOOD team. Well done. When I saw the spaghetti I felt really sorry for you.
It was more fettuccine than spaghetti. The mess we had last year before we pulled out the lead acids, THAT was spaghetti! M
Very neat job . I am certain that the peace of mind will help both of you gain a good night sleep .
It's already started to reap rewards, but it's the winter where we'll feel it most! Cheers! M
Guys you have done a really great job well done. I have mine to do and not a job I am looking forward to.
Do a better job of measuring twice and cutting once, and at least cube the amount of time you think it'll take, and you'll be fine! M
WOW great job ... way to go ...
Thanks! Took a while, but came out nice! M
Wow people that was a great video, thanks for sharing and you must be really proud of the end result. Hope the beds back together and proper sleep has been restored..
Pretty proper sleep, yes indeed! Much better! Thanks! M
Having just endured the same, Kudos to you for doing it on the cut…utter insanity
So glad you've made it out the far side! Now someone else understands the madness of Liverpool Boats wiring! M
@@MinimalList At best their electrician was colour blind…or just a bodger. If it was G.O.T then “Trakaris” would be a suitable end for him!
Heh, dragon fire indeed! M
Loved the vlog. What a epic episode. Hope you are enjoying some relaxing cruising now and I’m sure the battery’s are preforming as they should be. Love to George. 😀
They have been performing beautifully, and the cruising has been good (if HOT)... mainly looking forward to not having to worry about them over the winter! M
Brill well done both
Thanks! M
I've experienced a few of these endless projects😳! When you get a good end result, the feeling is wonderful. It's over, rejoice.
Duly rejoicing! Thanks! M
Great job! I blame Jono for his in depth knowledge of the battery system. Looks so much better and at least more space to store stuff and easier for upgrades
We blame him too! M
Well done looks much neater. I'm going to have to do a similar job eventually. I will take your warnings and allow extra time
Thanks! And yeah, budget extra time, then double it! M
Hi looks like you did a very good job of cleaning up that area where the batterys were Jo, and it looks like there was not much room to work in well done, moving the batterys to under the bed and the new wiring set look ok , now go off and do some crusing.
That's most of what we've been doing since! And trying to catch up on videos! M
That is a mammoth job and the result is a real credit to you both. A very tidy and safe looking install. A really interesting vlog, I may have to revisit my electrics on Percy that are pleasingly in their own engine room so much easier to get to. It is a great example of what living aboard is like, especially when DIY’ing. Well done treat yourself to some cruising !
We have done since, much happier! Glad you like it, and thank the gods for that easy access when you do it!' Thanks so much for watching! M
I had my fingers crossed when you fired up the engine! That's really nice work - it looked really great!
You and me both! Thank you! Jo
When i saw all those cables, and i am sure i am not the only one, my jaw hit the floor, and my eyes went wide, spaghetti on a plate to me, sorry but i am electronically dumb, well-done guys, well done indeed. I saw a great job the Cruising TheCut had done explaining the basics about Batteries wich i found very helpful, but what you did was amazing.
It's all fairly straightforward, ONCE you've got it labeled and can keep track of what the heck does what. Really I wish you could have seen the real mess we had before we installed the lithiums last year; believe it or not it was MUCH worse! Cheers! M
Very neat job, well done. Particularly the rust mitigation.
Thank you! M
Congratulations guys on a excellent job, well done Jo on the painting. I know how much of a pain that had too be getting into such a small space.
Hopefully you two can get back to enjoying the summer sunshine without a lot of hassles coming around to bother you.
It's gotten much better since the work was finished! Cheers! M
Congratulations! That was a humongous achievement for non-electricians. When you showed that maze of wires at the beginning... 😲
That's not even as bad as we first found it!! Sigh! At least it's done! Cheers! M
Great job. Well done to both of you. I was watching with a degree of apprehension as I know that our boat requires the wiring sorted. Top job. Regards
It's a scary, difficult job, but the better you can understand the connections and the scope of it before staring, the better! Wish we'd done more of that! M
Well done, excellent job and very informative. The end result was well worth the effort & will definitely help with any changes in the future! Also excellent shots of what you could video appreciating the need to have more power when none available!! Keep up the good work👍
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it! M
Just, ‘WELL DONE!’
Job well done sparky ( battery boy) TV show
Thanks! M
Brilliant.. still like Michael's SOH. But I think we should nickname him sparky 🐶🐕😂
Considering the number of times I've been electrocuted, I'd rather it not be that! M
absolutely superb job I hope you nailed the Ale in the local pub but well done outstanding
A couple of well earned fruit ciders, really ... not much of a drinker at all! But good strong cider! M
Nice job - a long one but you must be immensely satisfied with the final product - all the best from cold Wellington.
Thanks! We do feel better now, post work. We both miss Wellington though, loved it down there, and really miss the motorcycle I used to ride around the harbor! M
Wow, that's impressive I had no idea you spoke Greek..and now I finally understand the phrase...It's all Greek to me....cause my eyeballs turned inward after about two minutes. I would have run screaming home at the size and scope of that job. Congratulations, you each seem to have found what you are best at. Well done. Me, I'm going down for a nap you've worn me out.
Good god, I hope that's not what we're best at!! Hope your eyeballs have recovered! M
Thank you, very informative, big job and great result
Thanks for watching! M
Really interesting, my son is an electrican and I understand what you mean about labeling.
Great job, well done!
Thank you! M
Much neater, the before look was chaotic.
Oh was it ever. And that was the improved version, you should have seen the original!! Cheers! M
Fantastic vlog well done you two!! :)
Thanks! M
Watched this 4th July hoping u had a far more relaxed day you both earnt one , you certainly grafted.
They've gotten much more relaxing, thankfully! M
L
NICE JOB WELL DONE I WOULDN'T GO THEIR YOU DO LOOK STRESSED AFTER DOING THE JOB NOW RELAX AND GET BACK TO BOATING
There was a fair bit of stress, but we made it! Cheers! M
Just an idea, have your bilge pump permanently wired to the starter battery with its own fuse. That way if you leave the boat for a few days , you can take the master isolator keys with you, safe in the knowledge that the pump will keep any water out. Otherwise, nice job, looks very neat. Should make life easier in the future.
It's actually in there with its own fuse, though right now the positive connector is on the other side of the isolator. Good point though, I'll have to move it to the other side! M
Well done.
Thanks! M
getting electrocuted from 12 volts, you have a good sense of humor ;-).
shorting out a large battery is of-course the real danger, you can get serious burns and the darn thing can explode.
in the end a rely nice job.
Yeah it’s mainly the idea of welding my wedding ring on and burning through flesh I worry about... I know from grim experience that I don’t like the smell of me cooking! M
@@MinimalList been there done that and i don't like it either
Great job guys that looks so much better and even looks safer well done 👍🍸🍹
It should be MUCH safer! Cheers! M
Looks great, a lot of work though.
Yep! Not the easiest! M
Great job, sounds like Scotty on Star Trek when he estimates how long it will take to fix something.
Heh! More power! M
Congratulations to you both. And to think I've been nervous of doing some minor rewiring in the caravan!
Thanks! Maybe dive in, realizing that it could be worse, you could have a narrowboat?! M
Well that was hardly any effort at all! ;) I do think you've highlighted a significant fact for any single boater looking for a partner to share their boat life...go for someone small and flexible! Joking apart, really interesting vlog! I hope you've caught up on your sleep now :)
Or be the one whose small and flexible! No one says it's gotta be the boys who are large and stubborn! And yeah, finally getting rid of the sleep deficit! M
Wow amazing job you must feel very accomplished. You can sleep easy knowing, "you have the power" which is the knowledge. So much to think about with boat ownership but it must be plain sailing now....unless something goes wrong with the engine ekkk!! At least your not in the middle of the Atlantic and there's a pub nearby, well deserved drink at the end.
Yep, gotta keep it in perspective... worst case risk, really, was another day without a shower! M
That was a really interesting vlog. You must be proud oif what you achieved, the final wiring looks lovely. Thanks for sharing your pain.
We'll be more proud once it's passed the next inspection, but yeah! Glad you liked it! M
I liked it, I wouldn't know if anything was wrong and as always, I appreciate your eloquence.
Thank you! With all the swearing Jo had to edit out, I'm not sure how eloquent we are in real life, but appreciate it! M
I'm SURE Jo didn't swear THAT much...she's such a nice person :)
Hah! You'd think so, if you've only seen her on the other end of her edits! ;-) M
Good work hope it will all work out for you both.
Working great so far! M
Nice job. What a wonderfully organized electrical setup. I love that Jo is so involved. Nice example for the other ladies that woman can do anything!
You'll want to remove the masking tape from the glass in the bow doors. The longer is sits on there, in the sun, the more likely you'll end up with a lot of adhesive residue. Just a suggestion, trying to be helpful. (If it's too late, a razor blade will remove the crusty residue quite well.)
CallmeRogerRoger WD40 is brilliant at removing adhesive, had to do on my ex royal mail van with all the health and safety stickers inside on the paintwork and glass
Thanks! We did get it removed, with the aid of a window scraper in a few places! M
Never used WD40, but a couple of years cleaning up flight cases after shipping showed me that Ronsinol lighter fluid does the same! Good to know about WD! M
Very informative, it makes sense that one shouldn't put lead-acid batteries inside. But I'm not sure everyone would know that or even think twice about it. So with all the labeling and attention to detail, were warning labels put on the battery boxes so that others wouldn't replace them with anything but Lithiums? I don't need to know the answer. I just thought for safety's sake that it would be prudent to say something on the off chance warning labels weren't put on the boxes.
No labels, we’d tend to communicate that verbally to any new owners. But it’s a good point, next time I get in there I’ll add labels. M
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Congratulations! Cheers
Thanks!!! M
Label the wires with masking tape and a fine permanent marker as you disconnect them so that you know where they came from. I do this on aircraft wiring when I have to take plugs apart, and curse pwople who haven't when I have to take over from them and put things back together! I know this is too late for you guys, but this might help other people reading this!
We use a proper label maker (as neither of us have reliant legible handwriting), but yes any label at all is better than no idea what end of the spaghetti goes where! M
Interesting when you mentioned the bow thruster, I had earlier in the year been wondering if any narrowboats employed them. Dang, that battery move qualifies as an epic event.
Yeah, that wasn't the most fun. And now thrusters are pretty common on newer boats and especially wide beams, less common on narrowboats of our vintage. Worth their weight in gold when reversing, but a lot of people who are jealous make fun of them. M
Nice job if I ever win lotto I'd buy and live on a narrow boat
Looks great! I really like that you now have storage for the engine essentials right next to your engine. The underbed layout looks nice and easy to work on as well. I like that you put all the batteries in those chemical proof non conductive boxes, not so much for the LI batteries but the lead acid battery that is really nice. My only concern would be the extra heat you might be adding to the bedroom by having the charging batteries in there but they will be under the mattress, and you vented them so it might just become something you can ignore in Summer, and pretend helps in winter. I will say that the one thing I saw that I might have done different, and maybe it was that the existing one wasn't visible, is I would have added either a 12V or Multiport USB outlet over the bed for overnight phone charging while sleeping. In the end the boat will be better for the work you have done because the maintenance will be a lot easier to do and do right.
The 12V outlet isn't a bad idea at all ... might do that. We have two nearer the front of the boat, but running the phones up to the chargers every evening is a bit of a pain! N
Having just upgraded to lifepo4 fitted under the bed and removed the lead from the engine bay and fitted a dcdc mppt controller. I estimated 3 to 5 days. It took 3 so far i still have the mess from under the old lead ones to clean up but the rest is just about done.
I can't believe just how much excess wiring they put in for no apparent reason .
Well done! It's quite a job!
Hi, I’m fitting out a sailaway narrowboat - I’ve also got Relion RB lithium batteries and a Barrus Shire engine with 150amp alternator. You did a fantastic job and your video has been invaluable to me! ... could you let me know if you’ve had to make any adjustments for the alternator? .... I’ve read that lithium batteries can cause the alternator to overheat, which will damage the alternator and possibly the batteries? ....
We’ve made no changes to the alternator setup from what came with the boat. Can’t think of any particular way the batteries could cause the alternator to overheat, assuming everything is connected up the right way round, unless the voltage out of the alternator was so poorly regulated this that BMS kept disconnecting. Voltage out of ours seems to be pretty consistent, though, so don’t think that’s ever happened. M
Thanks for the quick and helpful reply Michael. I’d read that ‘a lithium battery can put a lot of load on an alternator and have it working flat out for an extended time’ which can cause the alternator to burn out. ...It seems to me that if the alternator is of a good quality, then this shouldn’t be an issue. .... do you know if your alternator is a Barrus Shire 150amp unit?
It’s a 100A alternator, though only the smaller 50A one has the Barrus name on it. Not sure who manufactured the larger, but I seem to remember it looking like Hitachi. M
Such are the workings of the TH-cam algorithm, that this only came up today; Wednesday 8th April 2020. Britain is in lockdown because of a lethal virus and we are all trawling TH-cam for interesting things to watch. I watch Minimal List religiously - usually saving it for some moment when I can watch undisturbed - yet somehow I have missed this for nearly two years?
To say I'm impressed is a very great understatement - I am in awe. That was a monumental undertaking and three days ("Tree dace" as 72 hour Ahmed says) was never going to happen. I liked the 3 days squared estimate best, but even that was optimistic. However, wiring and rewiring narrowboats is not your chosen profession and I've seen 'professionals' do far, far worse.
As an ex MRI Scanner engineer, I can only offer two very firmly vertical thumbs and my deepest respec'. However, your statement about laminating the 'final' wiring diagram and putting it with the batteries - the perfect ending - begs a question that has been bothering me since seeing the original rat's nest. Did you have a diagram to start with, who designed the modifications and have you got hand drawn drafts? (Okay, three questions;) I have begun equally complicated jobs with both original and as desired (as modified) drawings and still ended up confused and concerned with the outcome. I have rarely done jobs in such restricted space though. Except on Mobile MRI's and they are a feckin nightmare.
So, if you read this, how has the installation been working, did you ever draw the 'final layout' and how would you design a new boat? Well done both of you for successfully doing a very difficult job, doing it well and making an interesting vlog of the task.
Thanks for that! We did a rough sketch, but never actually got around to drawing it out and laminating it. We had what Liverpool Boats called a “typical wiring diagram”, which basically meant “this is what it’d look like, in theory, if the person who bought the boat ordered zero options and the guy doing the install wasn’t either bored, drunk, or colorblind”.
It bore no meaningful relationship to the actual rat’s nest of essentially all the same colored wire. We did what we could.
I used to wire up quite complicated video installations, with dozens to hundreds of BNC connectors all running around like mad... I’ve got to say the boats are worse!
If I were doing it all from scratch the main thing I’d do is put in some actual trunk conduit and cable control, rather than threading it all through rough cut holes in MDF. There’s no reason for it to be such a mess! M
Great vid as usual. I looked at the Lithium route as well. One leading manufacturer (I never went looking elsewhere if there is much of an elsewhere) said do not charge below 5C. I never got as far as investigating twin or more battery management, but the temp thing is something to double check before the cold days.
The manufacturer says to limit charge current to 1/10th C (which in this case is 10A) at 0C or below... the reality is our solar system doesn't normally get that high on days that cold, and our engine isn't usually running either (doesn't make sense when iced in), so this is more of a precaution than anything else. Where they are now, under the bed, 0C will simply never happen, so we don't need to worry at all. M
You sure HOPE it will never happen!
Well, true... if it is happening, there's worse problems than more fire. M
I hope my comment came across very respectfully. Michael, you have done your research and a super vid of a very tough job done well. Just for clarity my research (I went and looked at a few rough notes as never got far) centred on Victron. Essentially they say (their offering and a name in the market) down to 5C is good. Another article, not so sure on for accuracy as not cross checked, said charging below 0C is a bit unchartered. Overall my impressions (I would be non liveaboard all year) were it's not quite there yet as potential exist (in my potential narrow boat experience) for even new Lithium science batteries to work out very poentially very expensive options with current gen tech. It was just my findings from a couple of hours a couple of months back......................Reference here www.victronenergy.com/accessories/smart-battery-sense and here....marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/ if anyone gives a crap:).............My best to all
Yeah, the latter is the main source people point to ... I have, shall we say, issues with what he's written, how he's written it, and how he's approached the entire topic. I think he exaggerates a lot, and while he has strongly held (and borderline racist) opinions, he's also heavily biased towards the extreme end of DIY "science" projects.
Are we taking a chance on being wrong? Sure. This might end up being the worse option, though at the LUDICROUS expense of a Victron system at the time I was looking, and this being the article every Victron dealer likes to point at, I rather think I won't have wasted nearly as much as someone who went with Victron if I'm right and he's exaggerating the issues of a good integrated BMS drop-in (which is what ReLion purports to be). They've since dropped their price, but at the time I was looking Victron had its batteries selling on at least many thousand percents markup over what appeared to be the cost of LiFePO4 cells at the time. It's in their best interests to point people at resources that scare people towards their massive markups.
If we were plugged into shore power I'd want a better charger than the one I've got, but we're not. If we weren't constantly drawing voltage such that the batteries spend the majority of their day at about 13.8V, I'd be more concerned. I've set up the MPPT to float at 13.5V, so there's no long 14.8V float like he's worried about to begin with. I rely on the integrated BMS to do the job of protecting us from over voltage and/or over current ... that may not be the right choice or combination, but so far it's been performing fine. I'm hoping it continues to do so and gives me the life I'm hoping for (though I started with the assumption that would be half of what the manufacturer was suggesting)... we'll see, and we'll report back.
What I'm really not worried about now is the temperature issue... the area where they're at does not get close to or below 0C, which is the only place where charge performance is undefined with these batteries.
Anyway, it's all an experiment... I'm fine with what our setup is, we'll see if I'm right or not in the long run.
M
Keep quiet ! Hooray a You Tuber gutsy enough to say it. ALL the best
Well done, it was hard work but we got through it, I need another mug of tea now. I must say Michael was looking a bit bedraggled towards the end, I'm almost tempted to ask if his comb is electric too and he couldn't charge it up, but after being hot and worn out he might not get the joke :)
Without shampoo and shower water there's no point combing that mess, the teeth will all break off!! Cheers! M
LOL
That sounds like what one of the kids would say just before I sent them back upstairs to sort themselves out
Hah! M
At about 15½ minutes in I'm wondering if it's just coincidence that there's a rip in Michael's jeans at about the same height as the latch on that door.
Looks like a nice job though, bet you're glad it's over. Are the batteries et cetera all under your bed now? I wasn't entirely sure, but it looks that way; handy space for them now that the black water tank's gone.
I don't believe that tear was from that specific latch, but I'm willing to blame it in general. Yes, the domestic (lithium) batteries and their connections are now under the bed, while the starter and its wiring remain in the engine bay. This was part of the reason we struggled to take out the old poo tank! M
Very interesting. Would you have shown any electrocution? You have however talked me out of re-wiring my radio shack :-)
Over the years I've developed a knack for not getting electrocuted (any more), so I was pretty sure we'd live. Fairly sure. Cheers! M
well done. I would install a smoke detector under the bed.
I've been thinking of a heat detector more than a smoke detector, but yeah it would be nice to have something, even for the VERY low risk that exists. M
3 days without any hot water. No wonder George was trying to move in onto a neighbouring boat. His nose is 100 times more sensitive than ours.
And even ten would have been a game changer! M
Narrowboaters... reluctant electricians, mechanics, plumbers, carpenters, metal workers, painters, sewage workers and forum warriors. What price independence and tranquility? Well... higher than you think.
Very true
Can you use just one lithium battery for your engine and for leisure? I only have a 28 foot sailboat
I love it when you go geek. Does the engine bay get locked somehow?
No, there are ways you could lock it, but it's pretty rare that they have a lock, as unfettered emergency access is pretty important to maintain. Odds are no one can steal the engine. So the main nod to security is just removing the isolator key on the starter circuit. Cheers! M