Our Mormon temple experience
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ธ.ค. 2024
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I grew up in Utah as a non-Mormon and converted to liberal Judaism as an adult. Your discussion of consent made me reflect on how Judaism handles consent during conversion--you are required to take a class before you convert to make sure you understand the faith and what you are signing up for, they tell you repeatedly during the conversion process that you don't have to be Jewish, that you can bail at any time prior to the final conversion with no hard feelings, and that you should only do this is if you truly want to. The last thing the Rabbi asks before the final step of conversion is "You don't have to do this--are you sure you want to do this?" There's also steps to make sure that a conversion isn't coerced (your entire [clothed] body has to be visible, etc). I think it comes in part from the history of Jews being forcibly converted, but I really appreciate the focus on informed consent.
They also tell you throughout the process, “hey, remember the holocaust? Antisemitism’s still a thing. You sure you want that?????”
I think I was still standing in the celestial room for the first time when I told my parents "I know why people call us a cult now" 💀
Good for you! Glad you verbalized it!
What was their response?
Oh my gosh haha 😆
So are you still in the church?
Ha
throwback to when i was like 13 or 14 and had never been told how tampons work so during baptisms for the dead i bled through the white jumper and they closed the font and i had a panic attack in the bathroom and it was such a traumatizing experience for me and no one explained periods any better to me after it.
i was also sealed around then bc im adopted and *that* was weird. the mirror room freaked me out. my favorite part was the little play room they put me in beforehand bc i was too young to go through the endowment rooms, they had legos there. i built a working ferris wheel.
My overriding concern was making a mistake during the group activities. I felt like I was performing in a play without having participated in the rehearsal.
And the subtle judgment from the temple workers when you don't get the words at the veil right....
"and i am trying to gain basic social skills this year" - sam
same girl, same.
I first went through the SLC temple the day before my marriage to a return missionary. I was 18. Sheesh! When they get you there so young they think they've got you for life. Surprise! Not me!!! But this was decades ago and no one told me ANYTHING in advance. The "washing and annointing" was disgusting for sure. Then on to the session, where they said, near the beginning, that if anyone didn't want to uphold the promises they were about to be asked to make (what promises?) then leave. My poor young brain went into fight or flight mode. I looked wildly at my mother on one side of me and my almost mother-in-law on the other side for guidance. They wouldn't look back. I guess they knew my little mind was about to be blown to bits. I briefly wondered what would happen if I ran. But training and committment held me in my seat. This was back in the days of throat slitting, cutting out your heart and bowels, veiling your face etc. When we got to that part I really DID get sick. What an ugly freaky thing to have to do!!! Now it sounds like the whole event is just plain boring. Better I'm sure but still a pitiful scam. Run young LDS, run!
I grew up Mormon so I frequently went to do baptisms for the dead, which always felt weird but worth it cause we got ice cream afterwards. But when I went to get my endowments, the experience was nothing short of terrifying. I heard a voice say “run” over and over again. I knew it couldn’t be Satan because he had no power in the temple. The Holy Ghost? Why would that be something that it would tell me to do? I followed along but felt frozen to my seat (and not just because the damn AC is set so high). Between me were my aunt and my mom, who I knew had doubts about me going as a feminist. I soon found out why. We got to the “hearken to your husband” bit and I turned to my mom, appalled. She looked at me sternly. I heard the voice, “run” again-louder and clearer. Should I jump up and leave? Was that an option? Every movement we made during the ceremony seemed so intense and damning I wasn’t sure what doing so would entail on an eternal level. And if I did so, there would be no more availability to get this done before my mission departure date! Then what? No one left the church in my family-would I be disowned?? I had so many questions but not the environment nor circumstance to ask them. Would I give up who I was to fit into the sexism of this indefinite commitment? Apparently so. I bowed my head in pressured submission and choked a “yes”. The rest felt all like a bad dream. My parents talked at me the whole time in the sealing room and on the way home about why the temple feels as odd as it does. I couldn’t hear a word. The echoed “yes” drowned their words and haunted me all that night.
“I love to see the temple… I’ll promise to obey” 🎶
OBEY
horrifying! glad you finally made it out.
What temple did this happen in ?
@@davidjanbaz7728 Columbus Ohio
@@tabithalayton2001 maybe some people had the same experience you had in the Sacramento temple: I prayed over seats in the celestial kingdom room to open their eyes on my tour.
You should write a book, that felt like a passage out of a horror novel
My convert husband and I got out of his endowment session and once we were out of earshot of our friends, he asked, "what the hell was that?" My biggest regret to this day is bringing him into the dumpster fire that is the Mormon temple.
I said the exact same thing in the SLC temple parking lot to a friend who went with me.
@@sdarling6518 The universal language of realizing that you may be in a cult. 🤣
Good for him! I was thinking it the whole time, but felt so guilty. My friend who took me was married and had been several times. She was soooo into it, and I would just glance at her through out thinking "am I missing something?"
I was lucky enough to stumble on r/exmormon when I was a teenager, and got completely out mentally. One year at Girls Camp, I let it slip to my friend the outfits worn in endowment ceremonies, and the rest of the night was her asking what else I knew, and spiraling through a full faith crisis. You guys were saying how you felt underwhelmed by the whole deal, but it just shows how much Mormons who get there by natural progression are so conditioned. If your average Jesus Lover was thrust into bakers outfits and chanting and secret handshakes, they'd say bye. #notacult
Same here. it was watching the temple ceremony online as a teenager that made me realize "Holy shit, I've been raised in a cult".
Holy shit I’ve never thought about the consent thing before. It’s true that part of what you agree to is to give all your time, talents, etc to the church. You’re also given the illusion of choice in the beginning of the ceremony when you’re told you can withdraw of your own free will and choice, but at that point you have no idea what you’re getting yourself into and there’s usually immense implied pressure from friends and family to not withdraw.
1986 temple experience: We were stationed in West Germany before communist East Germany’s Wall fell. My parents flew to West Germany to be with us (my husband (22), me (20), and our 24 month old and 4 month old).
We drove to the Switzerland temple, the nearest to our home. I was excited! After the naked washing & anointing (older lady touching & blessing my body with her finger in certain areas) I figured it couldn’t get worse.
It did.
When they told me I had to vow to kill myself by imitating myself slitting my throat, cutting my heart out, and slicing across my abdomen to allow my bowels to disembowel, I thought of where I dropped off my two babies. Could I run and find them, grab them and run out, before they caught me and took me to a sterile room with an alter and drain hole in the floor (to clean up the blood)?
I quickly realized we had gone through a maze of halls and down an elevator. I had no idea where my kids were or where I was. Even though I did not grow up watching horror movies, I knew that to stay safe and possibly get out alive, my best bet was to play along like I believed. If I resisted, that’s a more likely way to end up “missing.” There was no home internet or social media to prepare me for the temple.
The temple prep class did not tell me I had to promise suicide if I “revealed what went on in the temple this day.” It was 100% non-consent. When the endowment session was over, I insisted they take me to my kids immediately. When I saw the door at the end of a hallway that said Nursery, I ran to it. I could hear my kids both screaming from the hallway. The older ladies dressed in white had put both my babies in white, wool onesies with legs. I ripped both out of those outfits. Their skin was swollen and beat red where the outfits had contact with their skin. They’re both allergic to heat, the outfits were causing them to overheat. I redressed them in the clothes I brought them in and left. That was 37 years ago, I’m nauseous and shaking just trying this. Ya, it was very traumatic.
In my day, it was a white Satan dressed as a Catholic priest.
Wow, that sounds like such a terrifying experience, thank you for sharing. 💜💜💜
That’s so awful. Swiss as a Mormon base seems to come up most of all in Europe.
So fitting for a strange people like the Swiss. Hiding up in bunkers in the mountains with guns.
I went in 2015 after experiencing deep depression for an extended time. I figured if anything could help my floundering testimony and access to the Spirit, getting endowed would.
I don't remember much about that first time anymore, other than being really nervous about it both before and during the ceremony. When my Dad asked me in the celestial room what I thought about the experience, I think I said, "It was nothing I didn't already know."
That nervousness never did go away. Every time I went I was anxious about doing everything right and not being the last person in the room to change my robes and all that. The only times I was not sweaty in the hands were during the beginning of the movie (until the anxiety would build toward the end anyway), and in the celestial room when it was all over and done. Even then, I always felt like I couldn't spend too much time in there because we needed to go. Stepping out of the temple and onto the grounds was always a breath of fresh air, literally and figuratively.
You already knew that God and Jesus were white!? Haha just kidding. I rolled my eyes so many times while watching those ridiculous endowment videos.
@@sdarling6518 bwahaha! You joke, but I still very clearly remember a prayer I said when I was a tween where the "Spirit confirmed to me that Heavenly Father had blue eyes." 🤦♀️
I grew up in the church but left when I was about 16, so I never experienced endowment. But I did do baptisms for the dead, and I hated it. The temple was always a massive source of guilt for me because I didn't think I was worthy to be there. I would just sit on those benches feeling like a dirty liar.
It also probably didn't help that at the time my ADHD was undiagnosed, which made my boredom feel like a moral failing. The one time I didn't hate being in the temple was when me and my 2 older brothers (who also have ADHD) stood up and looked at the oxen holding up the baptismal font. We were just quietly admiring the beauty of the room, and for once, I wasn't drowning in self-hatred. It felt peaceful. Until I saw the look the leaders were giving us. To them, we were being disrespectful, and their disappointment was palpable. That sucked.
I always noticed the bishopric have a RBF (of course in the 1970-80s when I was a kid, that wasn’t a term).
My experience in the temple STARTED my faith crisis - I thought I was going to connect more with God - instead I was asked to promise to be a "priestess unto my HUSBAND" . I remember thinking, my husband? Am I supposed to worship and obey my husband? A man who doesn't even exist? A promise from woman who was going to remain single? And the movie - with Adam interacting with God while Eve stood back and off to the side, Adam at the alter with Eve back and off to the side....When I asked a close friend about it she said I misunderstood and that they don't say that. So I went back. Yeah, they say that. And so I began opening my eyes and questioning....all the way out the door.
I used to steal tampons and pads from the women's dressing room when we did baptisms for the dead. I thought if god existed, he would understand that I needed them bc the earthly father he let me pick in the premortal existence made me fend for myself at home. The quiet was also nice.
Holy shit this is so sad. I'm so sorry you had to go through that
I am glad this was available to you. I think that was divinely ordained for you to do this
The idea that you would pick a parent who would harm you is so disgusting I like don’t know what to do
That the child actively chooses their abusive parents, so it’s on them for that choice. What the fuck
Goddamn, that's so sad about your dad. I'm glad you were able to be nuanced enough to believe that god would understand. That kind of nuance is what started saving my mental health
@@TheEuniceBurns1 aww, I love this reply 🥰
Honestly you can get profound insights into the world from anything - even outside of religion. Video games, movies, nature, books, music, dance, science, self made art.I know there’s many songs, and hikes that made me feel like the world makes more sense in a personal “spiritual” way.
Amen!
Like having a super strong suspicion that everything is connected somehow. I can't articulate it, it's just a feeling.
@@lorihoop3831 everything is connected!
On the topic of the blandifying temples, last year I went to see the Washington DC remodel with my family. Although I'm told it was fairly ornate with lots of woodwork before the remodel, when I went it was basically just an overgrown beige stake center. Our good friend Rusty seems hellbent on making absolutely everything as corporate and homogenous as possible.
I went too! A friend said it reminded him of the lobby of a mid range hotel chain and it was the most accurate description.
It was obviously expensive but all beige
I went last year too! 😂 I’ve never seen anything so bland in my life. My living room full of thrift store furniture was more aesthetically pleasing.
I was only told, "You'll make covenants and don't worry about trying to remember everything." Made zero sense until I went through. But it was also the temple that helped me get out. I used to only do initiatories until a friend made it a goal to go every week (and is now also out of the church, haha). After attending several endowment sessions I realized there was literally no point for me as a gay man to go since I had already decided I would never marry a woman and was never going to have a wife to covenant with me, haha.
Thank you for providing your insights and a different experiences and perspectives than my own. Channels like this help me have more compassion and understanding for my friends that have left the Church. Thank you!
I used to think my migraines were a consequence of too much loud laughter. That I was too much and the Lord wasn't okay with my loud laughter. 🤦
Awwww :(
i always thought the same thing about mine! i get them pretty frequently. but i never did stop being incredibly annoying with my laughter! suck it, Heavenly Father
My endowment weighs like a stone in my heart.
After seemingly hours of patient, attentive vigil in eager, faithful anticipation of the promised marvelous spiritual experience and deep truth revelation, I became horribly aware, in an instant when movie Lucifer made meaningful eye contact, that I had been hoodwinked and ensnared, and that to save myself I would have to perform an act of greater courage and cruelty than I was capable of.
To walk out of the endowment the day before my wedding would be to expose my beautiful, sweet, hopeful Beloved to the lifelong taunting and derision of this suddenly terrifying mob of witnesses made up of scores of extended family and tribal affiliates who would have cheerfully demoralized him for the rest of his life, one merry little venomous jest at a time over decades of sugar faced gloating over having been proved right about his foolishness in his choice of this unlikely convert bride to fulfill the promise of a hot wife prize for good missionary service.
So in less than a breath of time to choose forever, having already submitted to being dishonorably cut out and off from my entire family who were categorically excluded from this scene, I stood alone in a crowd under public scrutiny and more exposed, afraid, and vulnerable than ever before or since.
I decided to sacrifice myself to spare him, hoping it would be bearable, whatever was about to happen.
How bad could it be? So far his fox taming project of churching me up into a proper bride had mostly been, in the year and a day since my baptism, a slightly weird but also endearingly dull cultural immersion into a situation that seemed benign if strangely conceited and maybe overcommitted to the bit, but what I thought I saw was a mostly harmless variety of Protestantism where my neighbors were perhaps a bit more pious and busy than my preference, but live and let live, right?
I gave myself up; with a silent apology to my future and past selves and a fervent prayer for poise to graciously endure whatever this was going to be, I willingly permitted the forfeit of informed consent, surrendered to violation, and bowed my head to say yes to a series of increasingly extortionate oathbindings, each more appallingly invasive than the last. By the end I felt utterly ravished and maimed, numb but for the despair when after all it was worse than I could have imagined; they had taken everything and I had sold myself and my children into bondage in perpetuity.
I haunted the celestial room like a dead woman walking, while so many creepy whispers congratulated me on how ecstatically overjoyed I must be feeling, and every one of them felt like a bee come for a taste of my nectar, the sweet scent of sacrificial virgin blood in the water calling all the sugar faced sharks.
I have never felt whole nor safe a day since. I went through the sealing the next day and remember almost nothing beyond missing my parents.
Damn that was well written! You are definitely gifted. I felt your pain and was with you there as I read. I hope things are better for you today. I hate the fact that I was “ok” with the temple stuff and kept giving it time and after time to prove itself. I am an outsider looking in now, shaking my head at how accommodating I am. Disgusted that I am just the perfect brain washing type that goes along with things to keep the peace. This wasn’t the first time I was brainwashed, I am sure we all are in so many different ways in life. I felt very unsafe and unsure for years after I left in 2016. I send you hugs from a former sister 🤍 Hope you are doing well…
Just want to echo the commenter who preceded me. I would read your memoirs, or long fiction, or short stories. Great writing! Such good imagery
You are an amazing writer, you have a gift and talent for weaving an emotional and evocative image. I really hope you do find your peace and safety, because you ARE whole and complete exactly as you are- no fake ass scammy religious cult can EVER take that away from you! They can’t take what was never truly theirs. Your spirit is secure and rested in your love and your unique experience. You have nothing to fear from these people.
i was actually always taught that joseph smith joined the masons because that's where the "lost ordinances" had ended up. i remember thinking that was so cool that god would hide them in plain sight, until i learned the masons were atheistic lol
I grew up in Masonic youth programs (no longer affiliated and not defending them) and the Masons are definitely not atheistic! It is actually a rule to even become a member in the lodge to believe in a higher power. You specifically have to be Diest in some way.
For real. I remember asking a teacher about the masonic rituals and him kind of spinning the story by saying that the fact that Masonic rituals were in the temple ceremony was *actually* an indication of its truthfulness of the temple ceremony or some BS like that.
For me personally, doing baptisms for the dead was THE ONLY time I ever felt remotely spiritual about mormonism. I loved getting dunked in the water, I loved the peace and quiet and the reverence, and I loved feeling like I was doing something for my ancestors, etc. It caused me to feel a deep connection to my ancestors, as well as a respect for where I came from, along with a humbling notion that I was just another person in this long line of existence and bloodlines and that my actions would alter the future of my descendants. But the rest of the temple was absolutely insane and I remember distinctly thinking to myself: "Oh my god, this is literally like a cult." The anointing and the prayer circler were particularly creepy to me.
I had mine back in the day when old ladies were feeling you up during the anointing, women veiled, were told very explicitly that you need a man for "God" to consider you for salvation. The whole chanting in the circle, repeating the blood oath, and super secret handshakes freaked me out. I was underwhelmed to with what we were actually "taught"- and totally get it, I was hunting for symbolic meaning as well. Went once never to go again. Within 2 years, I was done with Mormonism.
Tanner & Sam: y’all are doing some great work up in here. I’m so glad to have found you. This is the closest I’ve gotten to catching you live streaming, only a day behind. After a few months now of taking in a survey of your stuff and loving it, I’d dearly like to know how to anticipate and show up for a live stream. It will be my first one ever.
If you click the bell icon, you will get notifications when they go live.
I went on a mission to Utah, so I loved going to the temple weekly while on my mission as an escape from the harsh realities of mission life. But after I got home and started learning more about the realities of Mormonism, I started experiencing panic attacks if I even thought about going to the temple. So, I didn't. I'm glad my subconscious knew there was something amiss. As usual, thank you for your commentary, stories, and insights. They are greatly appreciated.
I could see Utah being easy, yet I could see it being a spy state, like every member watching you and reporting you if you did anything that was not kosher. And of course they would never confront you about it, no, they would just tell the Bishop and he's send along some kind of passive aggresive message
@@stelladavis7832 the spy state part is pretty accurate.
That segment where you discussed how mormons "advocate for the imaginary" so they feel less responsible to be activisits for real-world issues was a BIG eye-opener. An excellent way to word that. You guys are sooooo articulate and intelligent; it's insane.
You should do a book review of a good book for once: 'For Small Creatures Such as We: Rituals for Finding Meaning in Our Unlikely World' by Sasha Sagan. It's a great read for understanding that rituals are a really important part of life, and for me, has helped me work through the notion of being afraid to have rituals or celebrate things because it feels too much like going back
I remember my grandparents always pushing us to pick a temple for us to do baptisms at when we turned 12. My grandmother is unironically really into family history, so she was constantly pushing us to do family baptism days, which I could never attend because the time was impractical or my siblings had other things going on that would prevent me from getting a ride. I felt guilty for not going, guilty when I did go because I lied to get in. My grandparents still won't do anything with me unless there's an overtone of the church. For Christmas they insisted that we all take a portrait picture next to a painting of Jesus and when I refused they pushed the, "well, what else are you going to do for me this Christmas?"
On the lying to get in, I think my parents would have understood. I didn't think so at the time, but they wouldn't have disowned me like I feared. But their son would have had more ammunition to bully and abuse me, so lying might have actually been beneficial for my long term health.
I am not willing to believe that the God of the Universe would ever expect me to wear dodgy underwear or a green apron.
i remember we were late for baptisms and my young women leader kinda shoved me into a dressing room, told me to take EVERYTHING off and put the jumpsuit on and i cried because i thought that was so gross but i wanted to please the lord. i wore my panties underneath anyways and felt guilty about it until later, my sister clarified that i was probably fine and god still loved me
I wonder as a never-mo, how can I get off the LDS list of being baptised after I’m dead? I just never want it to happen! Is there a list of “don’t baptize these people”? And how can I get on it?!
My temple experiences were all baptisms. I've gone into the Mesa temple and the real small one out near Thatcher and EAC, idk what they called it. My parents were married in the Mesa temple, too. I remember after doing baptisms like two or three times at those two temples, I just felt weird doing it. It made me feel icky and the buildings always smelled ever so faintly like bleach. We also went to the Gilbert temple before it was built and they bragged about how they broke one of the stone slabs when they were building the exterior and how they couldn't repair it because "only the finest for the house of the Lord," and they gave us little chunks of the slab, which I still have somewhere. We did a walk through of that temple when it was done- I remember thinking how extravagant the celestial room was and being like "this must have cost a lot of money on top of that one slab they had to replace." Younger me was onto something lol
Edit to add: my parents also always thought the Masons were weird because our neighbor is/was a Mason and looking back, that's SUPER ironic to me
It's called the Gila Valley temple (3 minutes from my house). It's all a bunch of masonic bs. Really, you get up to heaven and Christ is gonna say, well sorry, you don't know the tokens, signs, and handshakes (from Satan) so you can't come in
@@identityrefused486 that's right!!! Thank you, I remember now. And yeah, its goofy. As if Jesus would say "you don't know the handshake to the he-man-woman-haters club, get lost bozo!" 🙄 just baffles me sometimes
I loved going to the temple. Went all the time at school in Laie, travelled around the US and other countries visiting temples. Even did a few live sessions in Salt Lake. Honestly, even as someone who adored the temple, I could barely stay awake during long stretches of the endowment. And everyone else falls asleep too. It's truly the closest thing I've seen to knockout gas in audiovisual form.
What got me so into it was an addiction to finding and printing off my own family ordinance cards from FamilySearch and getting that red check mark and temple stamps on the cards. Had a huge stack of those. It made me feel like I was doing real good in the world. Turns out I was just wasting many hours of my life. But hey, at least I have all the passwords to get into heaven. Don't even need help with the last one. Very proud of myself.
Also, I'm still a bit bitter about getting Nimrod as my new name.
nimrod?!
1982: I kissed my boyfriend too much, not even petting, but I knew the bishop would ask detailed questions. I refused to submit to that. So I was the only youth to not go to the temple trip from North Carolina to the Washington DC temple (the nearest temple). There were youth (David Merrill) who had gone all the way, but lied, so he didn’t have the ward shame of having to stay back. Boys in the ward started the rumor that I was a whore, yet I was only ever with my (future) husband, I was a virgin before that. They actually slept around. Being an LDS teen was traumatic.
My friend always dragged me to young women's activities. I was always bummed I didn't get to go to the baptisms for the dead, but only because I always imagined them in cemeteries doing wild rituals at graves to baptize people. It wasn't until recently that my ex-mormon wife told me what it really is. I'm disappointed in the loss of my childhood expectation of the ritual.
This is the weirdest kind of wholesome
See, this pulls the necromancy aesthetic in to work alongside the conceptual necromancy. Plus they would have been more fun
My first temple experience was at 10 years old when my family sealed my baby brother to us after his adoption was finalised. It was in the SLC temple, the only temple I’ve set foot in, and while I don’t remember much about the sealing ceremony language used, I do remember changing out of the matching taffeta outfits my mom made her kids for the occasion and putting on an ugly, itchy white dress that’s collar was too tight, being taken through into a gorgeously gaudy room with murals, gold filigree and an altar in the middle with a green velvet pillow. If I remember correctly, we as a family had to stand around our new baby on the altar pillow, place our hands on him (there are 6 people in our immediate family not including the baby), hold still and pay attention while the ceremony commenced. I have ADHD, so this was actually a big ask for my overactive mind at 10…but my parents had been over medicating me since age 5, so my body was docile as least. I do remember feeling uneasy with the whole process, but I didn’t have a way of conveying that even after it was all done. I also took part in baptism for the dead, much to my chagrin and shame, on a regular basis…but not for spiritual sustenance like some, no, I went for the giant Costco muffins and Tampico offered as reward breakfast afterwards. I literally woke up at 4am on school days to do that damned ordinance just so I could abscond with as many giant double chocolate muffins I could cram in my face and hide in my bag for later. We were always poverty level poo, so Costco was fancy food! Even though we lived in section 8 housing most of my life, my dad still tithed 10% of his meagre income rather than try to make things better for his own family in the here and now.
First time temple erection fear is real, the catharsis of hearing someone describe that out loud was excellent. Thanks Tanner!
I had never ever ever heard of that! Men fighting or not fighting erections probably contributed to the grossness I felt in temples. It probably inspired all of the Mormon temple porn videos online too!
@@sdarling6518 In my case it was entirely just the novelty at the time of having to undress in some degree in a public space. Definitely not a sexual experience or in any way related to anyone else around me at the time, more just heightened situational arousal that, when you're 19 and right in the middle of aggressively hormonal puberty, can easily lead to a body reaction that doesn't fit the circumstance. It ended up being fine for me from what little I remember, but I definitely do remember being worried about that to a decent degree. Similar to middle school anxiety of having to change in a locker room for the first time just with the added stress of ETERNAL SALVATION mixed in lol.
It's a good thing that Eve wasn't all that hot.
@@sdarling6518 I think these are more related to cute and innocent missionary boys in their teens.
hey, that's very normal, people get or fear getting erections at the doctor etc., it's just from the breeze and the blood circulation. "fear erections" are a thing
I found it really boring and I hated having old people come over and start to help me untie knots in my robe to switch around to the other shoulder. I remember thinking, why does a cosmic God care about what side my knots in a robe or hat are on and why does he care if I sit up and down and say some spell? Then the white celestial room I entered looked like it belonged to a rich, evil woman who would owns two siamese cats. It wasn't sacred or profound it was just cheesy and I never wanted to return, and I didn't
In the car on the way home I looked at my husband and said. "This is a cult". I was never groomed. My regret is I stayed as long as I did.
It’s interesting you mention that the building of temples is outpacing growth. I lived in Mesa for 20 years within a mile or 2 from the temple because I loved the old houses downtown. It really surprised me while I was there when they built in Gilbert a few miles away, & now they have them everywhere.
hey, landlord here, this is a common way to keep money sheltered from the IRS.
@@SpecialBlanket True!
Hey, Tanner, I got married in the Mesa Temple! In 1976. So I did the naked initiatory and mimed killing myself in gruesome ways. Yeah. Creepy memories.
12:31 First two rules about the Temple: 1. You don’t talk about the Temple. 2. You don’t talk about the Temple.
i saved myself from going through the full temple experience when i left at 18. baptisms of the dead were not fun, it only felt "mysterious" to me because it was a place that was typically "forbidden" to me and that gave me a thrill. Poor baby queer me was getting dunked for people that didn't exist, i must have tainted the water lol!
I first saw temple garb in the show Big Love and was very confused by the keebler elf vibe
The current LDS temple ceremonies are definitely less groomy than they used to be. The original LDS temple ceremonies were groomy AF!
My aunt would make us do the hosannah shout on Easter. I always thought it was weird.
!!!!!
I saw Nelson waving his handkerchief. It was hilarious! Culty as f. 🤧
I’d love to see a whole show about secret handshakes.
When I was a teenager, I had a bishop who would shake my hand in weird ways. Was it the secret handshakes? And why?
As I made prescribed motions to the movie, I couldn't help but think of the times I made prescribed motions in a member of the audience at "Rocky Horror Picture Show." Sadly, the Rocky experience was a lot more fun and the people much friendlier and happier.
Here's the other thing, as an apostate that's been through the temple I remember all the stuff to say and do. Can I just sneaky sneak my way into the celestial kingdom then? Technically that should be a thing if the handshakes are required. And if God just knows if you're worthy and won't let you in if you're not then why have the handshakes at all?
Some of my family live in Montana and they were so stoked when they learned that a temple would be built in Missoula. Then they found out that there is no real plan to build one there and the church isn't even sure what land they're going to purchase, etc. I firmly believe that Nelson is just trying to be the "new and improved" version of President HInckley
fr hinckley and monson got so many built and nelson seems desperate to keep up
Samantha, as an 80's kid I just love your top🤗
Fellow ex-mormon here (I got to convince my mom to not force me to go to church several months ago; for a while she would make me go even though I was an athiest; most of the stuff I will go over here is personal experience with identity and certain weird shit I've encountered in my time in the lds church).
I never personally went to the temple trips, especially since I felt the process for review before then (for those who don't know, you're supposed to be asked questions by a bishop, an important guy in the local part of the church, and you're supposed to seen as 'pure enough'. I felt extremely uncomfortable being in this room alone while a grown man was asking me these very invasive questions, very very personal things I never told anyone about before for fear of being shamed. I lied about a lot of things, of course).
My mom was born in the church, and raised me and my two other brothers in the church. I can't remember the exact time when I first started questioning things, maybe around 11-12. But the way they talked about the temple was like this sort of elite club that they expected all of the youth to go to and highly pressured everyone to go. My mom isn't quite lost in the sauce in the way of believing in creationism outright or anything, she says that she believes God and science can exist at the same time and that God knew all science, which I mean isn't entirely harmful in and of itself. I remember how one of the seminary test questions at the end of the semester (seminary is like before regular school church studies and stuff with teenagers, I felt about half dead through all of it, I'm glad mom eventually forgot about making me go for a while) was like 'oh yeah God doesn't like gay marriage only straight marriage is ordained by god'. (From what I know, gay marriage is also not allowed in the temple.)
I remember that I was at camp (I'm a trans man, so it was girls' camp; this was before I knew I was a guy) at about 14 I think that I thought I was a lesbian and wrote about it in my journal that they gave me on the hike up to this certain outdoor church area thing. Mom tried to convince me I was bi because she knew I liked guys before, so I just went with it. I then identified as pan, then pan and ace, then pan, ace, and nonbinary, and finally, at the point I am now, as pan, ace, and nonbinary transmasc (he/they). (I managed to get my mom to not make me go to church anymore close to right around the time I was exploring my gender and trying the label of nonbinary). It was an exhausting experience to be assumed straight. I remember as one of the Wednesdays (for the area I live in, you'd have a few weeks with the young men and young women groups separate, and sometimes some from different wards (wards are divided up geographically in that area, and then usually once or so a month with both the young men and young women of the same ward together with usual activities. I remember that they were doing what was essentially the Mormon version of the game of life, and they made it like, really gender role-y and cishet and such like even more than it already was originally. It was set up in the gym area of the church building as a life-sized game that you would roll a giant dice and go to different spaces in. They had some normal things, like careers and houses, but they also had really uncomfortably weird things, like if you landed on a marriage spot, you'd be given a card of the assigned guy of the young men that would be your husband in the game, and the emphasis on the having kids part of the game went up by a lot. Like, so many different spaces were just of having kids, of which you'd be given a color-coded token for what that baby was expected to be, pink for girls and blue for boys. I forgot to add that the marriage tile was unavoidable and no matter how many spaces you rolled, you were forced to get the marriage done in there.
The church also acts like being gay is a disease and calls it 'same sex attraction'. There was seriously one of the leaders at camp screaming at us that being gay was a sin.
The way the church talked about sex, too, was also your standard 'don't do it before you're married, and only do it when you're going to raise an army of kids'.
I have found other queer people at church activities, so at least I had that. But it's still so isolating. There's supposed to be no 'cross-dressing' at dances, and during the slow dances, any non-straight couplings of dancing partners was seen as a thing that was just not allowed. Also, the fact that a lot of the rules the church goes by are determined by this group of crusty, boomer, rich cishet white guys that are pretty much completely disconnected from most of the regular people in there, and that you're supposed to blindly followed them, is generally messed up.
This is just the tip of the iceberg of my weird experiences in church and how absolutely draining it is to be in there for a kid, especially a queer kid.
Father, son and Holy spirit all three of them acting like one. 👉🤝👈
I wasn't too weirded out by the culty/silly stuff, but was profoundly disappointed that this peak religious experience didn't seem to teach me anything new that was also meaningful (the handshakes didn't feel meaningful.) And then in the MTC, another missionary decided to drop on me some folklore his grandpa had passed down which basically stated if you didn't learn something new every trip to the temple then you needed to repent. Yet another reason to feel guilty and doubt the validity of my experience.
Wow
I don't have questions necessarily about the temple, but I do have questions. 1. Is there a way to make sure my name never ends up on a baptism death list? 2. How do tithings work if you are on a fixed income like social security or receiving welfare assistance? I'm pretty sure the gov't doesn't care if you are suppose to give 10% of your income to go to heaven. Do you just have to reconcile knowing you're not getting in if you can't part with at least 10%? 3. How are Mormons and ex-Mormons so (usually multi) talented? Are you suppose to dedicate to something to be able to then give it to the church? Or to keep busy since idle hands and all? Or to be working on perfection? 4. How are you all so attractive? Is that sought out 'not on purpose' on purpose? Just a coincidence and good genes and lucky converts? 5. How do you remember so many prophecies, book quotes, talks, etc? And end up so able to critically think after being raised not to? Bible quotes are like sand in a civ in my brain and I was severely punished for thinking on my own and now have a hard time critically thinking.
I think the only reason I hold my patriarchal blessing dear is because my grandpa was the patriarch. I think that’s why I always loved father blessings, too--it was my dad saying nice things. That's it.
I'll comment this on all your videos, PLEASE PUT YOUR QUOTE REFERENCES!!! What's the actual quote about temple changes and losing priesthood?
The more I see about endowments, the more I am glad I got out before I went through the temple. Recieved the melchizedek priesthood, started getting ready for a mission, then fell away for various reasons. I was weeks/months away from going through the temple.
Took a while for me to realise you were saying "endowed". I kept hearing "in doubt".
There's a claim that I remember hearing that the better you were in the Pre-Existence, the more "well-endowed" you are here on earth, but I don't know if that claim has ever been substantiated.
I got freaked out during the endowment, I felt very uncomfortable. Satan was the one giving us instruction. I didn’t like those things.
Oh wow, this is the first time I've heard Satan was portrayed as black...what time period was that done?
until the 70s
Woowoo, catching this one live!!!!
My temple recommend is going to expire soon. I am living with Mormon parents. I haven't really told them that I don't believe in the church but going to the temple is somewhat uncomfortable to me. I don't know if it would be a good idea to be honest during the interview or just lie. What should I do?
If it’s safe to be honest, be honest IMO. But it’s totally your call! 💜💜
22:30 this sounds like a bit from a Douglas Adams novel
When they're listing stuff being created in the endowment, they should replace one of the animals listed with tapirs. /s
I listened to a Spotify podcast on Mormon temples. It brought up the point that we can’t save another person. The time to know God is while on this earth. What they do in the temples is a vicarious work. It’s all for nothing.
Am I the only one disappointed they chose not to show the handshake 😅
same!! i wanna see it. i was raised mormon but left before i could learn the secret handshake. almost wanna go back just to learn.... the curiosity is killing me
There is not just one handshake there are multiple different handshakes.
@@squib3825 None of them are anything special. Just your digits in a couple of different positions.
Here they are:
i0.wp.com/www.mormonstories.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Mason-Grips.jpg?resize=670%2C1015&ssl=1
Every religion that makes end times prophecies (e.g. Armageddon, rapture, 2nd coming, etc.) should be shamed into officially committing to an expiration date. For example, religion A should be discarded on the scrap heap of history if the 2nd coming of Jesus (clearly defined when setting the expiration date) doesn't happen on or before 2120 AD.
I heard from someone who has been working on the construction of the Taylorsville Temple that some of the wallpaper in that temple was $5k PER ROLL! Like, what the actual hell!?
makes you wonder whose nephew is a wallpaper distributor
@@ZelphOntheShelf EXACTLY!
I never realized how sketchy the who temple thing is until i started looking at it from an outside perspective...
For my temple prep classes before my mission, we had 6 1 hour long lessons with a couple in their 80s who pretty much spent each of those lessons just telling us we can’t talk about this. All we did was read from the temple prep pamphlet. I could’ve done that at home and gotten more out of it, but it still doesn’t prepares you for when you go. On the drive there, my mom told me about the naked part, and I was so freaked out. I almost didn’t go in. But luckily for me they removed that part before I went through. I walked out and thought, Yep this is a cult. But then I stayed at it for another 10 years because I figured everyone around me does this it must be OK. I must not be understanding something, but every time I went back, I was super uncomfortable.
Ahhhhhh
@@ZelphOntheShelf I also taught the temple prep class in my YSA ward for three years. I tried so hard to love it. I did my best to make sure that I gave people as many details as I could before they went in so they would feel more prepared than I did, but the more I taught it, the more uncomfortable I felt preparing people to do it. Found out about freemasonry on accident when I was walking through a cemetery with my dog and saw a masonry symbol on a gravestone. I didn’t know what it was so I googled it and did some research. Found out that the most uncomfortable parts of the temple ceremony for me, were just plagiarized from Freemasonry. Took off my garments that day and haven’t put them back on since. Your videos have really helped me break down everything I was taught over the last few months. Thanks for everything you do!
I wasn't so much horrified as I was more: "This is it?" I expected some new and interesting doctrine or proof that God exists or something more than what it was.
My husband and I quote Satan all the time, "you can buy anything in this world with money."
I am still PIMO, and my sisters basically gave me no choice but to go with them a few weeks ago, right after the new shortened change. And you'll be glad to know that the only thing I noticed that was different was that they indeed took out the "loud laughter" phrase 🤣
Also, I got married before my temple experience and we started going through a rough time with his ex and kids, so I felt pretty pressured to go through so that we could get more "blessings" and things might be easier to deal with. So that sucked. Wish I'd never gone. They've started to try and give the illusion of consent with recent changes, but you're already sitting in the room with the movie started and it would be very rare, IMO, for people to get up and leave after being told what they're about to promise.
I was in a Manhattan ward when they were scrambling to find a temple location. They found the perfect spot in Westchester but then the locals protested (Mormons? 😮 Not in my backyard!) So after a few of those rejections, they decided to repurpose the ward building at Lincoln Center and put Moroni on the steeple. Then built a couple of very fancy very expensive chapels in the city.
Thanks for the rant about public proposals, I totally agree! 😅
22:26 Lions and tigers and small rocks! Oh my!
Mine was alma as well I received it in Massachusetts Boston temple 2003
I went two times to the temple when I was in the MTC. I don't remember anything I think I blocked the experience. I went before 89 and I can't remember the cutting of the throat and all the stuff. When I finish the mission I was so depresed that even I had the recomendation I talked with my bishop He asked if I was worthy I felt so bad. that I couldn't answer. so I never came back. Maybe that entitled bishop did only one thing right in his life. 😂 I have to thank him
I’m so with you on the group chanting cringe. I don’t even want to group chant with other atheists.
Pay lay ale! Oh Dawkins, hear the words of my mouth!
@@charlesmendeley9823 🤣🙃😂😇
I always have said the church should have different movies to watch each time. Like Beginner Movie. Then Intermediate Movie. Then Advanced Movie so you could switch it up. I mean I loved "Back to the Future" but I wouldn't want to go watch it four hundred times in my life.
Or maybe they should allow popcorn during the movie 😀
one time I went to the Salt Lake temple where they do people acting for the endowments instead of the movie. The person playing Heavenly Father forgot his lines and Satan had to remind him of his lines LOL
How often is it normal for Mormons to go to the temple? I feel like I haven't been able to grasp that
i often heard growing up that members should be going once a month. i don’t think there’s ever been a hard rule for it though
That sounds intense! I never realised that was an ideal. I guess it'd depend on how close you live to the temple, though.
@@Tottosmile definitely
My active member mum goes every single week.
@@summervan5917wow! Does she also go to other church things or is that good enough for the week?
I left the church before ever getting endowed, and ngl I'm kind of jealous. It sounds like a hoot
The temple video is probably even more boring now because it has sort of being turned into a slideshow version (I assume to make the translation dubs easier). They did make the endowment a little shorter by removing changing the robe from the left side to the right and such as well.
I also heard a rumor they might phase out live endowments in the older temples and that is why they are getting remodeled?
hey guys why are you all removing posts?
We aren’t?
Question: if you do a baptism for the dead, how do you know if the person accepts or declines?
that's the problem😂 you don't know, the leaders just expect them to accept it in the afterlife
its expected theyll accept it bc theyre already dead so they know its true. or theyre dead and know its fake, either way works out for them.
It's really a pointless ritual... The decision to accept or reject the love of Jesus is a personal one, and must be made on individual basis... Baptism is an outward expression for an inside conviction... The inside conviction is the important thing, and may be accompanied by the outward expression/manifestation of baptism, or not...
06:00 Well...he probably thinks it a positive thing to follow Joseph Smith's manner of declaring Zion to be in Missouri, right, and everything that would be associated with that? It's been a tough one for the church to try to fulfill after-the-fact when the intended vision pretty clearly failed. It's kind of amusing to compare Smith's grandiosity in those statements with the Fourth of July Oration and its aftermath. Whoops.
Good Morning!
Ngl I loved veiling my face because then I could nap 😅
I forget. Can you get into the Celestial room without doing the whole hoooplah 3 hours ceremony? I feel like the C room was always mostly empty and they wanted you out of there as quickly as possible. But that was 20 years ago for me
20 years ago? so you also were naked during the washing. I did the temple stuff a year before they changed the ceremony. creepy rituals 😬
So next time the missionaries drop by can I just be like “just have your grandkids baptize me when I’m dead”? I try to not be rude though.
I’m just here for paddington in the background
I hope Calculon (from Futurama), gets cast as Satan in future LDS temple videos. Satan is fun when he is really hamming it up. I think Calculon could even outdo the great Michael Ballam (who, since I am an exmormon, will always be my Satan).
I think the reason that non-mormons are barred from weddings/sealings is that because they show the patriarchial grip and state it as being such. It would be showing them sacred temple goings-on
So stupid a husband does not tell the wife their temple name. “I can’t tell you or I might not get my own planet and my magic underwear will zap my balls”.
I would like to know are you still members of the church? Do you still go to the temple?
No, we resigned years ago!
18:44 under what age?
“So you don’t get an erection in the end, that’s good!” 😂😂😂😂😂😂 I DIED 😂
Silly goosebumps 🤣