Classic question! --- Spoiler --- I got the flashback bonus question wrong because i thought the targets were declared before it went on the stack. Whoops!
I think the term "lethal damage" is misleading. The rules are much clearer. 704.5g If a creature has toughness greater than 0, it has damage marked on it, and the total damage marked on it is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage and is destroyed. Regeneration can replace this event. So there's never "lethal damage". Otherwise there might be uncertainty if the "lethal damage" became "non-lethal"
There *is* lethal damage, though. The rules are indeed clear: 302.7. Damage dealt to a creature by a source with neither wither nor infect is marked on that creature (see rule 120.3). If the total damage marked on that creature is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage So at the time the damage is dealt, it is "lethal damage", as defined by the rules. It is no longer lethal damage at the time when state-based actions are checked, which is why the goyf survives. But you can’t say that there’s never lethal damage.
A true classic
Gotta say, the flashback part was a bit of a surprise to me
What doesn't kill you grows the tarmogoyf
as well as dying
An all-time classic
I love how there is a more recent version of this interaction in foundations.
I'm surprised this hasn't been a DDR video already. This is a classic
It was, #20, 3 years ago
Classic question!
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Spoiler
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I got the flashback bonus question wrong because i thought the targets were declared before it went on the stack. Whoops!
I missed what this was updated for
A Classic!
Ah, Jund.
I think the term "lethal damage" is misleading. The rules are much clearer.
704.5g If a creature has toughness greater than 0, it has damage marked on it, and the total damage marked on it is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage and is destroyed. Regeneration can replace this event.
So there's never "lethal damage". Otherwise there might be uncertainty if the "lethal damage" became "non-lethal"
There *is* lethal damage, though. The rules are indeed clear:
302.7. Damage dealt to a creature by a source with neither wither nor infect is marked on that creature (see rule 120.3). If the total damage marked on that creature is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage
So at the time the damage is dealt, it is "lethal damage", as defined by the rules. It is no longer lethal damage at the time when state-based actions are checked, which is why the goyf survives. But you can’t say that there’s never lethal damage.