Why are you not including the strenght of schedule? Bills are 2-3 vs. PROBABLE playoff teams, but the two wins are critical? The Ravens had to play double the amount of games against playoff teams and DESTROYED the Bills...
There's all this talk about Josh "doing it." Doing it, what? If I played against the Jets twice, the Patriots twice, and the Dolphins twice, I'd look good "doing it", too. Swap the Bills for the Ravens and see what happens. Let the Ravens play the other AFC East teams twice and let the Bills play the other AFC North teams twice. What do you think Josh's Win/Loss record would be then? I guarantee it wouldn't be 13-3. So, what is Josh doing, exactly? Would you still consider him the MVP if he didn't even make the playoffs? Because that's exactly what would happen. If you swapped out the Bills for the Ravens, at best, the Bills would be 3rd in the AFC North. He wouldn't even be the best QB in the division in that scenario. That would be Joe Burrow. Now, look at the other side of that coin. What do you think Lamar Jackson's stats would look like? What do you think the Ravens' record would be? Can you honestly say Josh Allen would still be an MVP contender? Especially, over Lamar Jackson? C'mon now. Be honest with yourself.
Josh Allen got benched when the Bills played the Ravens. How can a guy get benched and be the MVP? Josh Allen should not even be #2 in this discussion. Sam Darnold and Jared Goff have had better seasons than Josh Allen.
If you look at the NUMBERS first...Lamar Jackson has the better case. If you look at the FILM first...Lamar Jackson has a better case. For every play Josh Allen has made [on Film} you can find a play that is just as good from Lamar Jackson. And often, very often, the play is going to be more spectacular! LAMAR JACKSON...MVP.
Lamar double stiffed armed a guy, threw a straight DOT falling out of bounds...than dapped the ref right after, made the defender he stiffed armed fall to his knees...tf yall talkin about when it comes to film!!! How tf you watch something like that and say that man shouldn't be MVP, miss me with that bullcrap mannn!
@jamarcusthomas9233 just saying, JJ can't say "Lamar wins because of stats" WITHOUT saying that Allen was robbed by Lamar last season. Either stats are everything or nothing. You can't have it both ways
Lamar averages an INSANE passer rating of 121.6 Ravens are 0-5 when he is below 114. Allen averages a super solid 102. Bills are 4-2 when he throws below 102.
Ravens can't win when lamar is asked to pass over 30 times in a game. Proven by his 2-5 record in games where he's had over 30 passing attempts versus Allen's 6-1 record (the one loss being the rams game where allen put up 42 points) in games over 30 passing attempts. Lamar does not win when his supporting cast is not shining around him
Lamar had better numbers, played a harder schedule, won head 2 head, broke the rush record & about to set the record for best passer rating all time. WTF is they talking about???
They hate the fact Lamar can get the best QBR and now it doesn't matter. These guys have grown up with Wyte QBs. Some blacks idolize them and have vitriol for QBs like Lamar. Lamar changed the WB position forever
The Ravens didn’t lost the Raiders OR the Browns game because of Lamar. When Lamar left the field in BOTH of those games he gave his team the lead. His defense( which was statistically the worst in the league) & his kicker (who also was statistically the worst kicker in the league) was the reason they lost those games.
Oh is that right? Didn't lamar fumble in the final minute to spot Raiders the ball for winning FG. Funny how you conveniently forgot that minor detail. Lamar couldn't close out KC, Allen did.
@karisa1022 I think that's fair to critique him on that but Chase sitting up there and saying Josh Allen has been better "consistently"?? The same guy that went 9/30 in a loss to the Texans?? That's not even just a bad game, that's literally historically one of the worst games ever played by a Qb. All I'm saying if you're going to use an argument to discredit one guy, your argument has to be consistent. If you say Josh Allen is your MVP cool but don't cherry pick to push your agenda
@karisa1022 when Lamar left the field Baltimore was up double digits. The defense let the Raiders score a TD then they did a onside kick in which they recovered the ball then scored again right after that. Lamar was on the sideline like I said.
@karisa1022lamar couldnt close out KC? He literally hit Likely in the end zone but Likelys toe was on the line...so Likelys feet placement is Lamars fault too? 😂😂 3731 yds 28 TD 6 int 531 rushing 3 fumbles lost 2-3 vs playoff teams 4.25-1 TD-int ratio Vs 4172 yds 41 TD 4 int 915 rushing 0 fumbles lost 7-3 vs playoff teams 10-1 TD-int ratio 4th Highest QB Rating of All Time Just look at the numbers and whos MVP?
HOW?! Raven are 2-5 when henry rushes for less than 90 yards, they are 2-5 when lamar passes the ball 30+ times. Bills are 7-2 when allen passes the ball 30+ times. How can you be the MVP when your team does better with the ball out of your hands??
@@mooseperkrvg7293and the ravens are 0-5 when lamar doesn’t have a passer rating of 114 or higher josh has had many games this season with a average passer rating or bad passer rating and he’s not playing that well and they still win
@SinwinX that was trash no doubt. I just hate these guys disingenuous arguments about talent and how they ignore Baltimore's schedule. Keon Coleman is more talented than any receiver on the ravens and Amari Cooper might be too. And they have the leading td running back even while Josh Allen poaches goal line TD like Jalen hurts. Shady is proudly biased, Acho made up his mind a month ago and chase just wants it to be Josh's turn. Wild.
Every Josh Allen argument I hear supports Pat Mahomes being MVP. Has the best record in the league and did it without starting rb and #1 wr for pretty much the whole year.
not just Pat, what about Darnold and Goff? I think Mahomes, Goff and Darnold are all better candidates than Josh Allen, he just had those two big games on TV nobody was calling him MVP befre that. Lamar was on a bye week
You are forgetting that Mahomes hasn't looked good on tape for much of the year. Winning and looking like you are crazy valuable are different things. I don't want to say Mahomes is bad. He just isn't having a crazy good year. I do think he has a pretty good last two games and could be the MVP of the playoffs but not the regular season.
@@davidhenner9367 I said every Josh argument support Pat. Because Josh has no argument to be MVP if we going off tape. Lamar is easily on film the best player on the planet.
"Passing yards are the most irrelevant statistic in the world." Is that so? Wonder why everyone gave Lamar a hard time for not being "quarterbacky" enough. So Lamar gets criticized when he uses his legs too much and dismissed with an MVP arm.
It's interesting how passer rtg is now irrelevant or no one knows what it measures actually now that Lamar's leading the league in it? Textbook goalposts moving
Passing yards are pretty irrelevant for Josh Allen when he's sat out of the 4th qtr more than any other QB because the bills have been blowing out teams all year. Yeah the decimated shell of themselves lost to the ravens, but ravens lost to the browns/raiders. When you're battling for your life against bad teams you should have a lot of passing yards. Burrow has so many passing yards because they've been playing from behind all season.
Naw if u really really,really watch the games ….Justin tucker is the reason the ravens are 11-5😂😂😂😂like if Daniels wasn’t bias he woulda mentioned that “as well” as he played bad against the raider n browns
Stats scream lamar Film screams lamar Standard of opposition screams lamar Lets be honest this is a pity party for allen..similar to embiids mvp..it should have been joker but pity won the day.
lmaoooooo, james jones is wrong, Allen is doing it with nobody, lamar has a guy in the backfield that almost has 2000 yards, this shouldn't be close in my opinion, and the ravens have 11 wins when they were projected to at least be the number 2 seed, the bills were projected not to make the playoffs, the ravens have 9 pro bowlers and there 11-5, the bills have two, Allen and dawkins and they have the 2nd best record in football, what are we talking about lol
5:30 “whether you like it or not, you already had two mvp’s Lamar” what kind of argument is that? Did we tell that to Favre, Manning or Rodgers? Giving off real “get off my lawn” energy. Get this bigot off the show
I'm glad you ignored the 9 Pro Bowlers vs 2, better record, beating the two best teams in the NFL, the best play off the year and doing it with a broken hand. Sure, just focus on that 10 second talking point. TH-cam Logic.
@ Favre won 3 in a row before he won a Super Bowl. Manning won 2 in a row 3 years before his first Super Bowl. Should do some research first. I think Allen is the MVP but let’s not act like Jackson isn’t being judged differently than past QB’s and we all know why
@yahcrackFavre won the SB when he won his 2nd MVP of those 3 in a row... I did do my research, maybe you should recheck your own stats before hand. So again, if Lamar got his 3rd before his first MVP he WILL have been judged differently than the others.
@@AilmanF2P The best play of the year is subjective. Lamar's shootout with Air Burrow had the best highlight. A california team who lost in the snow, is hardly the best highlight!
There's no logical way to argue FILM for Josh over Lamar, especially when Lamar is threatening the passer rating record. The highlights on primetime games alone is enough. Josh had to have Lamar on a bye week for people to pay him attention because the gap in talent is blinding ON FILM ALONE
Passer rating is a worthless statistic imo. It is just completion percentage and int's. A QB could be 5 or 5 and no INT's and have a perfect passer rating. Last year the leaders in passer rating were Purdy, Prescott, and Cousins. 😂 Impressive. 😂
The MVP discussion is downright exhausting at this point. But listen to Acho’s point about film over stats, then listen to him downplay Justin Herbert’s impact because of stats…
@@Bigdawggy245 I cared a decent amount until every video on my algorithm had something to do with it, then I realized it’s all too much 😂 I would like Lamar to win, but it’s more than fine if he doesn’t
@@Krisna-ov8skthe BUT does a lot of work here. When on this show have they ever talked about Herbert for MVP. But Acho has criticized him this season for ‘only’ having whatever touchdowns and not passing for a lot of yards. He’s also criticized him for having numbers and yards. Just using his MVP logic to point out inconsistencies in other discussions. Called the discussion exhausting because I don’t wanna talk about it anymore lol..
I’ll make it simple: 121 Passer rating, 40 pass tds 4 ints, 800 rush yds, beat josh h2h, 1st in the afc north, beat burrow 2x, baker, jayden, dak, steelers to take the division, winston while he was balling, bo nix, herbert… That is the best mvp resume of all time. They will not remember josh playing great just bc he has less talent. Last time i checked lamar has always put up great numbers with less talent but now that he has henry we wanna discredit the greatest reg season of all time?
I like how Chase constantly bringing up the raiders and browns losses but don’t wanna talk about that 9/30 game Josh had against the Texans! The same Texans Lamar toyed w/ the entire game smh lol
It’s not the “same” Texans at all. Texans had Steffon Diggs and Tank Dell when we played them. And their defense was a lot better when we played them. Plus the whole 9/30 is due to the receivers not getting open, dropped balls, and Josh being concussed for 20 minutes of that game. You gonna ignore that?
@@Cloudstrifehy3you’re an idiot if you think stats are what determine the most valuable player, you don’t think Josh would have more stats if he didn’t sit out 9 quarters this year??
@@NathanaelGonzalez-b5g YAC for recievers means the QB is throwing them open and hitting them in stride this puts it further in Lamar's favor learn the game before you go throwing out stats without meaning
The Ravens where leading in both the Raiders and Browns game when the defense allowed the winning score with less than a minute. Also Tucker missed crucial field goals in both games. Context is critical in this discussion and Chase doesn't have a clue.
The agenda is strong. Joe without Chase and Higgins is a mediocre QB. His best attribute is anticipation which involves trust in your receivers. You have to have good ones to do it.
@@brianwilder8482 Burrow's talent is, at the least, matching the talent he's throwing to. Can he find success without top tier talent around him? Maybe not, he's had the silver spoon treatment since college, but it's not fair to assume he's nothing without Chase and Higgins
No it NEVER mattered to any other MVP candidate!!! But all of a sudden let's knock Lamar for it!!! And why he keeps saying it's Josh's time..??? That's not a reason to reward him the award!!!
Or Josh Allen. Josh has more weapons around him than Lamar. 2nd best o line. Elite rb who leads the league in td. Good wr core with a trupe number 1 wr. Te with a 1st round pedigree
James Cook has 15 tds .......like wtf???.......Amari Cooper anyone????......Josh plays the patriots Jets and dolphins twice a year vs Lamarr hardest schedule in the league. Why does no one bring these things up????
Tell me you've only watched one bills game without telling me you've only watched on bills game. Using Amari Cooper as an excuse is all you need to say. How many of those Cook Td's have been from the goal line. Derek Henry anyone? Zay Flowers Anyone? #1 Ranked Defense/ #2 ranked oline anyone? Mark Andrews/ Isiah Likely anyone? Lamar losing to the Browns/Raiders anyone? LMAO
I mean it is impressive and cool but allen broke like 6 records this year and has like 30 plus more rushing tds than lamar in his career so like yds are cool but....
@@jd229 you’re saying that like the yards didn’t end in a td. there’s a reason lamar has more passing tds than josh. and then the goal line tds go to henry. so like tds are cool but……..
9:16 so you can’t say passing yards are irrelevant because their usually on losing teams because they’re down, then use derrick henry to discredit because good RBs are usually on good teams. it’s the same argument of irrelevancy you run the ball more when you’re leading, therefore if derrick henry looked good, it’s because lamar is doing his job well. this is the most cherry picked mvp convo in history i sweat
very good point and applies for all of Burrow, Baker, Allen and to a lesser extent Goff. Teams that at times have not fully trusted their defence and started to really sling it. Lamar leads the league in yards per attempt. Burrow and Goff have thrown it 606 times each. Lamar 442 and adding rushes and rush attempts, he leads the league in total yards and yards per attempt. For the record, Josh Allen is 9th. It's not really close and they all know that but they would hate to give it to Goff or Darnold and to be honest both deserve it over Josh Allen.
I don’t even understand this race. Lamar is leading in almost every important individual measurable stat category with higher wr drop% and a higher pressure% than Allen. More tds, more passing yds, more rushing yds, less ints, higher completion%, higher y/a, lower bad pass%, higher completed air yards per attempt, [more fumbles, lower on target%(by 1%)]. And when people say “stats don’t matter” the MVP is and always has been a statistically leaning award.
@Xb1-w5j I never heard them talk about wins and loses for MVP. Not in football. We know a good player on a terrible team ain't getting it but splitting hairs over 2 games. I never saw or heard it. And Lamar having talent has never been brought up with any other MVP.
Right, like last year. Josh had more Passing TDs, far more Passing YDs and more Rushing TDs than Lamar, but the main narrative was "Ravens have more wins than the Bills."
It's because Allen has made the right plays when he needed to. Every time he has a bad game he makes crazy plays in critical moments when he needs to. Go watch more football lol
@@trello413 Go back and watch those games that they won and Allen played bad. You'll see at least 2-3 critical plays from each of those games that allen made.
This man Emmanuel did not say the tape for Allen is better!! Wow! I struggle to think any sane person watches their film side by side and comes away thinking Allen is better. The Bills also played a significantly easier schedule and went 2-3 vs playoff teams...
Strength of Schedule at the start of the year which is how its all calculated Buffalo had the harder one, try again with that statement. Just like next years when SoS comes out it will be based on this year. Also Ravens lost to 2 teams below .500 Josh didn't
@@nutrageous8675 losses are not simply a QB metric. Lamar played well in the losses to every team except the first Steelers game. He can't catch the ball too and play defense...look at Josh's performance against the same opponents. Lamar outperformed him against both the chiefs and the Texans. Only difference was each team beat the opposite opponent.
@@nutrageous8675 that's where TAPE matters.. TAPE shows Lamar didn't lose those games, our terrible defense and special teams did. But that doesn't fit the narrative of the average fan who just want to say "Lamar lost to the Raiders and Browns"..first of in the AFC North.. the browns often times beat each division opponent at least once..most years.. it's the AFC North..they are always a toss up...and 2nd Lamar played well/great in every game except the first Steelers game and even then he played better than pervious Steeler games lol. TAPE matters.
Shady says “If Josh has a bad game they team will Lose If Lamar has a bad game they team can still win” So did Josh Play good last week against the Pats?🤣 NO and they still won, Bills had a few games where Josh played bad and still won idk why no one responded with that
Shady was saying Lamar was going to surpass Allen after he would beat the Steelers and now acts like he never said that 😂. This is scripted, they are paid by the employer to push a narrative sent by the NFL to that employer
JJ knows, Tape = Lamar is better than EVERYONE. The argument Josh's tape is better is all they're going either because Lamar's stats are bett3r too lol it's close but Lamar #3MVP
Stop the narrative that Allen has to help. Top 3 rated o line, James cook leads all rd w 16td, the bills defense leads the league in total takeaways. Amari cooper is an all pro wr
@@MAXIMA347 I’m not even a bron fan I honestly don’t care for his accolades, I’m just being real. There’s no way you can sit here and lie and say rose was more valuable than LeBron at any point of his career. When it comes to MVP voting they it’s just a matter of who’s the hottest at the moment, not the best.. which it should be.
Look at the show last week, he said the opposite. Plus, Lamar has a must-win game to go! When you gotta LIE to make you case and leave out, strength of schedule and total yards of offense, but count total TD's to make it look close, you loss! 12-13 1 yard TD runs, but Lamar has 900 rush yards. You count rush TD's but don't count rush yard! DIABOLICAL
Either Chase really dislikes Lamar or he wishes he could be Josh Allen. Because every time this conversation comes up, he is grasping for straws on how Josh is better than Lamar.
@@richardforbes943PFF grades off the “eye test” and in their subjective opinion, Lamar is better and the best QB in the NFL… and they also think that Josh Allen is not even second best, but rather 3rd best… with the eye test. 😂 Allen has no stat argument, no eye test argument, the SOS negates the better talent argument, and Josh also doesn’t have the “best player on the best team” argument. His only argument is “well he beat the Chiefs and the Lions.” And it’s quite possible that after this final week, so will the Broncos and the Vikings will be the top team in the NFC and Josh just beat a team that’s the 5th seed in their conference. Josh is 2-3 against playoff teams, Lamar is 7-3. Let’s be real here. These guys are bias, they just don’t want Lamar to be a 3x MVP. Shady because he is friends with Josh (0 MVPs) and Mahomes (2 MVPs). Lamar still won’t be better than Mahomes until he’s got multiple rings, but he’s still going to root for his teammates.
Lamar had the harder schedule and leads the league in YPA and YPC. It’s nuts it’s even a convo. Josh won a game going 0 TDs and 2 INT. Ravens haven’t even come close to winning a game like that. Crazy people forget in the beginning of the season Bills had to go get Amari because Josh went 9/30 in a game
Lamar don’t have the number 1 seed nor does he have 50Tds or 5000 passing yards in 16 games, dude 11-5 fighting for wildcard. Not the same as Mahomes, stop it!
@@justingreene3672you ain’t gotta lie to make your point lol.. the Ravens will be the 3 seed and the Bills 2. Ravens beat every single team that will make the playoffs except for the Chiefs, but nice try lol
@@justingreene3672neither does Allen this year and you missing his point. All of the best QBs in the history of the game have won mvps playing with hall of fame talents. Why is it being held against Lamar this year ?
@@CAF420ALLDAY7 easy number 1 seed dominated 11 playoff teams with two rb hurt Andrews for most of the season and Stanley… he just led the number 1 team rushing in rushing and the number 4 scoring offense to the number 1 seed without Henry does that sound like Allen to you? Noooooo he was throwing 18 picks with a top 5 WR
But it is Josh's time because he deserves the MVP. Who has done more for their team? The guy that can sit the final game because of what he's done all season, or the guy that has to play the final week to try and avoid a wildcard spot. Bills have only lost to 3 current division leaders. Can't say the same about the Ravens, they've got losses to division last place.
@@tw897 hey dude, idk if you know this, but the ravens had the 4th hardest schedule this year. bills had the 22nd, and it will always be relatively easy as long as their division is 6 auto wins allen struggled against the 3 win pats 2 weeks ago btw. so sitting the final week is not a competitive argument for your guy, sorry to say
So you're saying on tape, the pitch back to Allen is more impressive than Lamar juking defenders making them look incredibly silly while throwing dots to his receivers? They are trying to give Allen way more credit for plays that require less skill. They even called one of his INTs an Arm Punt lol
Allen breaks/avoids defenders and throws bombs to his recievers too lol. Honestly the main reason him and Lamar are considered elite players are both their abilities to escape the pocket and make magic outta nothing
@@dsmangamaster Your take is more than reasonable. And that's the problem. We can make a case for either of them depending on the criteria you chose to pick. But looking better on tape ( Allen threw 9 for 30 against the Texans!!!!!!!!) is just nonsense. Allen has 3 things in his favor: more wins, playing with lesser talented players, more rushing TD's. That's it. I'm a wins guy so if I were basing it strictly on wins Allen gets it. But Acho has had his vote locked in for a month and he is now grasping at straws trying to justify it.
@@dsmangamaster Allen is capable of making most of the plays Lamar can make, he just can't do it as well or consistently. Lamar has a highlight reel play EVERY GAME and he's throwing DOTS
Stop bringing up Derek Henry bro smh How come jalen hurts isn't having an mvp year?, and he's got the best rb in the league rn ? So how does that effect lamar
I love James Jones calling out the hypocrisy and disingenuous of the panel. They had no real standing so they had to start jumping around and gang up on him. Lmao. This video gotta go viral.
The film vs Texans wasnt bad, you just saw the stat line. He didn't have his top 2 wrs, and his receivers dropped 6 easy catches. Also it turns out it's a 17 game season....
Cook is good, he’s not Henry. Amari has played less than half the season in Buffalo. I love how everybody acted like stats didn’t matter last year and this year they’re the only thing that matters. Josh has more wins with less talent. Period. Any other year, I think Lamar would win. Allen has been the most valuable player to his team by far.
Nobody said stats didnt matter bc ppl noticed josh had 20+ turnovers so dont be disingenuous on why he didnt win.. he wasnt even 2nd dak was lol @coleg7876
Pro bowl votes are meaningless. I've watched every Ravens game, and I can tell you the only guys who deserve to b in the pro-bowl are Lamar, Henry, Humphrey, and Hamilton. The rest of the guys got in on name recognition. Josh also has a MUCH weaker schedule and strength of victory, which is largely why he can "do more with less". I'm with these guys, I don't think you can be mad with either, but their reasons for picking Josh are pretty overstated. And voter fatigue is bogus to admit to. And Allen has had quite few more bad games than Lamar, and yet he still won those. The Ravens lose if Lamar plays bad.
This show has taught me that just because you played a sport, doesn't mean your opinions can't be flawed. You can't turn on the tape and see that Lamar has played better than Josh? Acho sites one example of a receiving TD, but what about all that Lamar has done that shows up on tape as well as the stat line?
If the passer rating don’t matter, why them players wit the highest passer rating win then ? And all of them had their teams in the playoffs those years they won MVP. Make it make sense brotha.
I definitely disagree, because Lamar did it with less talent before too. Now he got the weapons they feel bad for Josh Allen. They definitely didn’t feel bad for Lamar.
Tom Brady had 4 seasons in his whole career with at least 40 TDs. Allen has 5 in the last 5 seasons. He’s the only Qb to have 4 in a row and one if only 2 QBs to have 5 at all. The fact that he doesn’t already have an mvp is a travesty. Compare Lamar’s stats to Tanehills in 2020 when Henry was running at a similar level. Every game the ravens have lost, Henry has had under 85 rushing yards. Lamar is stat padding, they move the ball on the legs of Henry then let Lamar pad inside the 10. Allen is handing the ball off from the 1 and sitting the 4th quarter in week 17. Allen has had over 100 less snaps than Lamar because his stats are to win games not to win a media award and he has sit an entire game worth of 4th quarters. Ravens pass catchers have the most separation in the league bills bottom 3 separation. What are we talking about here?
Passer rating is calculated using a player passing attempts, completions, passing yards, touchdown passes, and interceptions, essentially measuring their passing efficiency by taking into account all these factors combined.
It’s wild that they say the Ravens will still win when Lamar is off, but the Bills won’t. Meanwhile, Allen got bailed out by his team when he played poorly against the colts and patriots
@karisa1022He's actually talking about when he played terrible against the colts and patriots and still won. And then he played even worse against the ravens and texans, which were by far worse than any performance Lamar had all season with the exception of maybe the steelers loss
The reason why the whole "Look who's on his team" thing is misleading is because having an elite QB can make almost anyone look good. The Ravens have a higher dropped pass % than the Bills. Also, Allen's bad throw % is 3% higher than Lamar's. and Lamar's on target % is 4% higher than Allen's. On top of that, look at Gus Edwards, who was solid for the Ravens last season. His production fell off a cliff. Look at Henry. he's having the best yards/carry in his career. Why is that? It's because you have to game plan for Lamar pulling the ball and taking off. Every single game, you'll see a defender run after Lamar even though he handed the ball off, creating uneven matchups.
@@richardforbes943 Allen's bad pass % is 3 points higher than Jackson. Allen's on target % is 4 points lower than Jackson (all of this with the Bills O-Line being waaaay better than the Ravens... 16% pressure rate vs Lamar's 20% pressure rate). Maybe if Allen was more accurate, his numbers would be higher and would have a more convincing argument as to why he should be MVP.
@@draethereum Yeah and it took them 7 years to get it right! And we have a guy at center playing out of position and a 2nd yr guard so it isnt perfect. Oh he accurate I would put that on his new wr's that didnt know the playbook! Gotcha! Eye test tells you everything you need to know
@@draethereum Lamar definitely helps Henry and Flowers, but they clearly help him too. Your comparison with Gus Edwards shows that: Edwards had like 800 yards last season and Henry has 1,800 this season. So the upgrade from Edwards to Henry is an extra 1,000 yards. This is also why Lamar is getting less credit this year for MVP than previous years -- Lamar is now surrounded by elite talent on offense. It's no longer a one-man show
Nobody considers strength of schedule. Lamar got last year on inferior stats because of only 3 losses. He has 5 losses this year after adding Henry who was their team MVP half the season. Allen lost leagues top receiver for the prior 4 years (Diggs) and improved his stats, reduced his turnovers, and won more games when not even expected to win division. Fifth straight season with 40+ combined TDs.
In 2025 I hope people show more love to James Cook, Amari Cooper, Khalil Shakir, Keon Coleman, Dalton Kincaid and others who recently are being made out to be bums, for Josh Allen's MVP campaign. 😢💔
I agree. I quietly knew that Coleman was a good draft and that Shakir and Kinkaid would have good seasons. In fact I expected more from Kinkaid this year. Knox always dependable too. Good reliable receivers. Shout out to Hollins too. Cook - he’s a beast.
So the Bills are the 1 seed this yr and blewout the 2 seed 56-19? 23' Ravens had the third highest DVOA ever after 72 Dolphins and 07 Patriots. The Bills this yr are nothing like the Ravens last yr. Josh Allen had 18 ints last yr and was 5th in MVP odds. He got one MVP vote to Lamar's 49 and people want to act like it was close - it wasn't. If Lamar sets the passer rating record and they give it to Allen it's pure nonsense.
Its Josh Allen there is no debate. This ain't even a debate . MVP is the most valuable player. Josh has one other probowlee on his team. ONE!! LAMAR HAS NINE!!! The head to head with Josh Henry ran for 200 yards with 3 TDs!! The Houston game Henry ran for 146 and didn't play the last drive. Lamar passed 10 times for 160 or so. Like the #1 worry playing the Ravens is Derrick Henry. The #1 worry playing the Bills is Josh Allen
So u can b 22nd n Comp % have multiple no TD int games four games where your QBR iz n da 60s name 1 person who won a MVP wit deez josh allen stats I'll wait!!! SMMFH
Shady just said that Lamar can play bad and the ravens win... Whaaaat??? Lamar needs to play on an MVP level in order for the Ravens to win. Josh went 16-29 and won. Verse the Patriots
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Why are you not including the strenght of schedule? Bills are 2-3 vs. PROBABLE playoff teams, but the two wins are critical? The Ravens had to play double the amount of games against playoff teams and DESTROYED the Bills...
There's all this talk about Josh "doing it." Doing it, what? If I played against the Jets twice, the Patriots twice, and the Dolphins twice, I'd look good "doing it", too. Swap the Bills for the Ravens and see what happens. Let the Ravens play the other AFC East teams twice and let the Bills play the other AFC North teams twice. What do you think Josh's Win/Loss record would be then? I guarantee it wouldn't be 13-3. So, what is Josh doing, exactly? Would you still consider him the MVP if he didn't even make the playoffs? Because that's exactly what would happen. If you swapped out the Bills for the Ravens, at best, the Bills would be 3rd in the AFC North. He wouldn't even be the best QB in the division in that scenario. That would be Joe Burrow. Now, look at the other side of that coin. What do you think Lamar Jackson's stats would look like? What do you think the Ravens' record would be? Can you honestly say Josh Allen would still be an MVP contender? Especially, over Lamar Jackson? C'mon now. Be honest with yourself.
Josh Allen got benched when the Bills played the Ravens. How can a guy get benched and be the MVP? Josh Allen should not even be #2 in this discussion. Sam Darnold and Jared Goff have had better seasons than Josh Allen.
I got to go with Brock Bowers.
If you look at the NUMBERS first...Lamar Jackson has the better case.
If you look at the FILM first...Lamar Jackson has a better case.
For every play Josh Allen has made [on Film} you can find a play that is
just as good from Lamar Jackson. And often, very often, the play is going
to be more spectacular!
LAMAR JACKSON...MVP.
Lamar double stiffed armed a guy, threw a straight DOT falling out of bounds...than dapped the ref right after, made the defender he stiffed armed fall to his knees...tf yall talkin about when it comes to film!!! How tf you watch something like that and say that man shouldn't be MVP, miss me with that bullcrap mannn!
Ok now do Josh. Lamar is great too but I see so many commenters that clearly have never watched a Bills game
Play of the year after that Saquan run.
Word!!!
@@touchandgo2044 big facts
Allen does that legitimately once a game. There's literally stats that he's the best at throwing while falling out of bounds 😂
Now people are discrediting Passer Rating. LMAO
Henry is a cheat code for the passing game.
It’s only discredited when Lamas owns it now it’s a nothing burger
We kno what it is !
@ Funny how nobody was calling Henry a cheat code for anything last season.
@@donkeybuslmfao then why wasn’t Ryan an mvp candidate point closed
This is turning into "anyone but Lamar Jackson" award
Allen has played 13/17 games against non playoff teams - let that sink in!
Yea, he shouldn’t win MVP unless he actually beats good teams like the Chiefs and the Lions. Oh wait…
@@zachary4746that’s the only good teams he beat. Got crushed by Lamar and the Ravens. Went 9/30 vs Texans.
Not 2 mention he went 9-30 against da Texans followed dat up witta no TD 2 int game he iz 22nd n Comp %&has multiple no TD games!!! SMMFH
@@MarvG3000He also iz 22nd n Comp %has multiple no TD games!!! SMMFH
Exactly!!! Nobody wants to look at Strength of schedule all of a sudden.
I’m convinced JJ is the only unbiased person on this show
Why? Because you agree with him?
@@SkyrimChickenbecause they were saying punt the key 2 weeks ago
@jamarcusthomas9233 just saying, JJ can't say "Lamar wins because of stats" WITHOUT saying that Allen was robbed by Lamar last season.
Either stats are everything or nothing. You can't have it both ways
😂😂😂😂! Stop...
@@SkyrimChickenLamar beat 10 playoffs teams last Year just watch the film he beat every other MVP candidate that’s why he won last Year
Ravens cannot win without Lamar playing good. I don’t know what they talking about
Lamar averages an INSANE passer rating of 121.6 Ravens are 0-5 when he is below 114.
Allen averages a super solid 102. Bills are 4-2 when he throws below 102.
@@Galero15I was about to say that
They made the playoffs with Tyler Hutley
Ravens can't win when lamar is asked to pass over 30 times in a game. Proven by his 2-5 record in games where he's had over 30 passing attempts versus Allen's 6-1 record (the one loss being the rams game where allen put up 42 points) in games over 30 passing attempts. Lamar does not win when his supporting cast is not shining around him
@Benliving10 people don't want to use logic. Hilarious!
Lamar had better numbers, played a harder schedule, won head 2 head, broke the rush record & about to set the record for best passer rating all time. WTF is they talking about???
Aye let’s get u on the show champ‼️
@ Acho would lose his MVP voting rights after that episode. TRYNA CHEAT HISTORY!!!
So you agree Allen should have win last year because he had better stats.
And lost to Cleveland and Vegas. Pathetic
@karisa1022 Lil Momma you sound like a Hater
“There’s times Josh has to extend the play to get guys open” -Shady
You’re describing Lamar Jackson, buddy
Almost in every play.
They contradict themselves and dont even know it
u think lamar is the only one that does that🤣🤣
LMFAO no that is Josh Allen tfoh 🤣🤣🤣🤦🏻♂️ stop with the false narrative bs
@@BBM716Lamar does it too
They pissing James off😭😭😭
They hate the fact Lamar can get the best QBR and now it doesn't matter. These guys have grown up with Wyte QBs. Some blacks idolize them and have vitriol for QBs like Lamar. Lamar changed the WB position forever
Gimmie a break!😂
@@RUTHLESSambition5 accurate
@@RUTHLESSambition5 JOSH ALLEN IS GREAT WITH BUMS!! YOU'RE A HATER🤡
@@RUTHLESSambition5Exactly that’s a great take.
The Ravens didn’t lost the Raiders OR the Browns game because of Lamar. When Lamar left the field in BOTH of those games he gave his team the lead. His defense( which was statistically the worst in the league) & his kicker (who also was statistically the worst kicker in the league) was the reason they lost those games.
Oh is that right? Didn't lamar fumble in the final minute to spot Raiders the ball for winning FG. Funny how you conveniently forgot that minor detail. Lamar couldn't close out KC, Allen did.
@karisa1022 I think that's fair to critique him on that but Chase sitting up there and saying Josh Allen has been better "consistently"?? The same guy that went 9/30 in a loss to the Texans?? That's not even just a bad game, that's literally historically one of the worst games ever played by a Qb. All I'm saying if you're going to use an argument to discredit one guy, your argument has to be consistent. If you say Josh Allen is your MVP cool but don't cherry pick to push your agenda
@karisa1022 when Lamar left the field Baltimore was up double digits. The defense let the Raiders score a TD then they did a onside kick in which they recovered the ball then scored again right after that. Lamar was on the sideline like I said.
Facts
@karisa1022lamar couldnt close out KC? He literally hit Likely in the end zone but Likelys toe was on the line...so Likelys feet placement is Lamars fault too? 😂😂
3731 yds 28 TD 6 int 531 rushing 3 fumbles lost 2-3 vs playoff teams
4.25-1 TD-int ratio
Vs
4172 yds 41 TD 4 int 915 rushing 0 fumbles lost 7-3 vs playoff teams
10-1 TD-int ratio
4th Highest QB Rating of All Time
Just look at the numbers and whos MVP?
JJ u r absolutely right
HOW?! Raven are 2-5 when henry rushes for less than 90 yards, they are 2-5 when lamar passes the ball 30+ times. Bills are 7-2 when allen passes the ball 30+ times. How can you be the MVP when your team does better with the ball out of your hands??
@@mooseperkrvg7293and the ravens are 0-5 when lamar doesn’t have a passer rating of 114 or higher josh has had many games this season with a average passer rating or bad passer rating and he’s not playing that well and they still win
These guys have the worst MVP conversations in all of sports media
Nah that goes to the girl that said LJ isn't quarterbacky enough
@@SinwinX WHO SAID THAT
@@franciscoguzman7351 some fox radio host it was quite the talk at the time
@SinwinX that was trash no doubt. I just hate these guys disingenuous arguments about talent and how they ignore Baltimore's schedule. Keon Coleman is more talented than any receiver on the ravens and Amari Cooper might be too. And they have the leading td running back even while Josh Allen poaches goal line TD like Jalen hurts. Shady is proudly biased, Acho made up his mind a month ago and chase just wants it to be Josh's turn. Wild.
@@SinwinX nobody counts that clown.
Every Josh Allen argument I hear supports Pat Mahomes being MVP. Has the best record in the league and did it without starting rb and #1 wr for pretty much the whole year.
not just Pat, what about Darnold and Goff? I think Mahomes, Goff and Darnold are all better candidates than Josh Allen, he just had those two big games on TV nobody was calling him MVP befre that. Lamar was on a bye week
FAX
@TheInterestedObserver Sam has JJ Goff has 5 all pros beside him man stop talking football
You are forgetting that Mahomes hasn't looked good on tape for much of the year. Winning and looking like you are crazy valuable are different things. I don't want to say Mahomes is bad. He just isn't having a crazy good year. I do think he has a pretty good last two games and could be the MVP of the playoffs but not the regular season.
@@davidhenner9367 I said every Josh argument support Pat. Because Josh has no argument to be MVP if we going off tape. Lamar is easily on film the best player on the planet.
"Passing yards are the most irrelevant statistic in the world." Is that so? Wonder why everyone gave Lamar a hard time for not being "quarterbacky" enough. So Lamar gets criticized when he uses his legs too much and dismissed with an MVP arm.
WELL YOU DO HAVE A POINT THERE
It's interesting how passer rtg is now irrelevant or no one knows what it measures actually now that Lamar's leading the league in it?
Textbook goalposts moving
lol yea, and even if passerrating is irrelevant Lamar has the best rushing and best QBR. this is so stupid argument against lamar
Passing yards are pretty irrelevant for Josh Allen when he's sat out of the 4th qtr more than any other QB because the bills have been blowing out teams all year. Yeah the decimated shell of themselves lost to the ravens, but ravens lost to the browns/raiders. When you're battling for your life against bad teams you should have a lot of passing yards. Burrow has so many passing yards because they've been playing from behind all season.
Yeah but in AFC chip everybody said Baltimore should have ran more and Lamar threw too much. Don’t sound too “Quarterbacky” to me
We all know who Acho is going to use his vote for 😂
Who?
Based on his own criteria it should be Lamar. Since H2H was the reason he voted Lamar last season
Acho is the best at appearing smart but being dumb
Acho …Lamar has moments too tho 😂😂😂😂
Naw if u really really,really watch the games ….Justin tucker is the reason the ravens are 11-5😂😂😂😂like if Daniels wasn’t bias he woulda mentioned that “as well” as he played bad against the raider n browns
Stats scream lamar
Film screams lamar
Standard of opposition screams lamar
Lets be honest this is a pity party for allen..similar to embiids mvp..it should have been joker but pity won the day.
James jones is the only watchable person on the show
Lol cuz ur a ravens fan and the others said josh
He is awful lol
Not when it comes to Lamar or Aaron Rodgers. He’s unbelievably biased.
most biased for sure
lmaoooooo, james jones is wrong, Allen is doing it with nobody, lamar has a guy in the backfield that almost has 2000 yards, this shouldn't be close in my opinion, and the ravens have 11 wins when they were projected to at least be the number 2 seed, the bills were projected not to make the playoffs, the ravens have 9 pro bowlers and there 11-5, the bills have two, Allen and dawkins and they have the 2nd best record in football, what are we talking about lol
Already know acho is going to bring up “I have an MVP vote”
who cares its worth bragging rights
And we already know who he voting for 😂
Lmao😂😂
😂😂😂😂
Which he shouldn't
13:17 This mane said “Don’t let Bateman beat you deep”🤣🤣🤣🤣 They reaching reaching 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Strength of schedule … one dude played a bunch of non playoff teams, one trounced most playoff teams.
Facts!!!
One dude also got trounced by the other dude too and got trounced while the defense was the worst in the league at the time
One lost to 2 bottom teams. One beat THE top 2 teams
Some people are gonna always favor Elvis.
@@po-vb8mmhe played good in those games they just lost Josh went 9-30 in a game
5:30 “whether you like it or not, you already had two mvp’s Lamar” what kind of argument is that? Did we tell that to Favre, Manning or Rodgers?
Giving off real “get off my lawn” energy. Get this bigot off the show
I'm glad you ignored the 9 Pro Bowlers vs 2, better record, beating the two best teams in the NFL, the best play off the year and doing it with a broken hand. Sure, just focus on that 10 second talking point. TH-cam Logic.
The fact is Favre, Manning and Rogers had a SB win before they got that 3rd MVP nod. That's why they didn't tell that to them.
@ Favre won 3 in a row before he won a Super Bowl. Manning won 2 in a row 3 years before his first Super Bowl.
Should do some research first. I think Allen is the MVP but let’s not act like Jackson isn’t being judged differently than past QB’s and we all know why
@yahcrackFavre won the SB when he won his 2nd MVP of those 3 in a row... I did do my research, maybe you should recheck your own stats before hand. So again, if Lamar got his 3rd before his first MVP he WILL have been judged differently than the others.
@@AilmanF2P The best play of the year is subjective. Lamar's shootout with Air Burrow had the best highlight. A california team who lost in the snow, is hardly the best highlight!
Less losses... Jackson lost by 22 pts combined in all losses, Allen lost to Jackson by 25 in 1 game
So then the Bills outscored their opponents by 194 in their wins and the Ravens outscored their opponents by 153 in wins? All of this is meaningless
Josh didn't play defense against Lamar you dope! Stop being racist and only going with Lamar because he's black. I'm sick of it.
@@stevenlacharite4433you obviously have some serious issues if you think he’s winning because he’s black. you need some help.
Bills lost to Henry, not Lamar and it was early in the season. Allen beat KC and Detroit. Lamar lost to KC and Philly.
@@stevenlacharite4433Lamar played wayyy better than Josh that game you dope
There's no logical way to argue FILM for Josh over Lamar, especially when Lamar is threatening the passer rating record.
The highlights on primetime games alone is enough.
Josh had to have Lamar on a bye week for people to pay him attention because the gap in talent is blinding ON FILM ALONE
Passer rating is a worthless statistic imo. It is just completion percentage and int's. A QB could be 5 or 5 and no INT's and have a perfect passer rating. Last year the leaders in passer rating were Purdy, Prescott, and Cousins. 😂 Impressive. 😂
@@EricKearneyMusicnow it’s a worthless stat? Yeah ok
@@EricKearneyMusictwo of those guys were mvp candidates for that very reason
Bills fans say any stat is useless unless he had it
Bro never watched a JA highlight film in his life
The MVP discussion is downright exhausting at this point. But listen to Acho’s point about film over stats, then listen to him downplay Justin Herbert’s impact because of stats…
@@Bigdawggy245 I cared a decent amount until every video on my algorithm had something to do with it, then I realized it’s all too much 😂 I would like Lamar to win, but it’s more than fine if he doesn’t
Justin Herbert!? Lmao give me a break 😂
@@Krisna-ov8sk no one’s talking about mvp, calm down
@ “The MVP discussion is downright exhausting” “no one is talking about MVP”
@@Krisna-ov8skthe BUT does a lot of work here. When on this show have they ever talked about Herbert for
MVP. But Acho has criticized him this season for ‘only’ having whatever touchdowns and not passing for a lot of yards. He’s also criticized him for having numbers and yards. Just using his MVP logic to point out inconsistencies in other discussions. Called the discussion exhausting because I don’t wanna talk about it anymore lol..
I’ll make it simple: 121 Passer rating, 40 pass tds 4 ints, 800 rush yds, beat josh h2h, 1st in the afc north, beat burrow 2x, baker, jayden, dak, steelers to take the division, winston while he was balling, bo nix, herbert… That is the best mvp resume of all time. They will not remember josh playing great just bc he has less talent. Last time i checked lamar has always put up great numbers with less talent but now that he has henry we wanna discredit the greatest reg season of all time?
850 rushing yards and 3 rushing touchdowns!!
How Lamar do against the chiefs tho?? I’ll wait
@ 273 yds 1 TD 0 ints 90 rating
Make it even simpler. Jackson lost 5 games. Allen only lost 3. Look at last year and last 20+ years if you still don’t get it.
I like how Chase constantly bringing up the raiders and browns losses but don’t wanna talk about that 9/30 game Josh had against the Texans! The same Texans Lamar toyed w/ the entire game smh lol
Or strength if sked or josh losing record against winning playoff teams
It’s not the “same” Texans at all. Texans had Steffon Diggs and Tank Dell when we played them. And their defense was a lot better when we played them.
Plus the whole 9/30 is due to the receivers not getting open, dropped balls, and Josh being concussed for 20 minutes of that game. You gonna ignore that?
@@mustermasJosh has a worst team, Bills were supposed to finish 3rd in the AFC East
@@rajkaranvirk7525doesn't matter, Cant cherry pick
@@rajkaranvirk7525nobody really thought that are you serious if you did you're delusional 🤦♂️
James jones the only one with a brain on this show
Exactly. Better Stats and won head to head case closed. Josh's case is being propped up by the media because he hasn't gotten one yet.
@@Cloudstrifehy3you’re an idiot if you think stats are what determine the most valuable player, you don’t think Josh would have more stats if he didn’t sit out 9 quarters this year??
He got better stats because of yac
@@NathanaelGonzalez-b5g so dalvin cook , kincaid and shakir don’t have a lot of yac yards
@@NathanaelGonzalez-b5g YAC for recievers means the QB is throwing them open and hitting them in
stride this puts it further in Lamar's favor learn the game before you go throwing out stats without meaning
The Ravens where leading in both the Raiders and Browns game when the defense allowed the winning score with less than a minute. Also Tucker missed crucial field goals in both games. Context is critical in this discussion and Chase doesn't have a clue.
Not to mention in the browns game the ravens defense dropped 4 picks
It's funny how having good players matters for Lamar but doesn't for Joe Burrow
The agenda is strong. Joe without Chase and Higgins is a mediocre QB. His best attribute is anticipation which involves trust in your receivers. You have to have good ones to do it.
@@brianwilder8482 Burrow's talent is, at the least, matching the talent he's throwing to. Can he find success without top tier talent around him? Maybe not, he's had the silver spoon treatment since college, but it's not fair to assume he's nothing without Chase and Higgins
Didn’t matter for Peyton manning who played with 3 hall of famers and very elite players Clark stokley 💯🥱
No it NEVER mattered to any other MVP candidate!!! But all of a sudden let's knock Lamar for it!!!
And why he keeps saying it's Josh's time..??? That's not a reason to reward him the award!!!
Or Josh Allen. Josh has more weapons around him than Lamar. 2nd best o line. Elite rb who leads the league in td. Good wr core with a trupe number 1 wr. Te with a 1st round pedigree
James Cook has 15 tds .......like wtf???.......Amari Cooper anyone????......Josh plays the patriots Jets and dolphins twice a year vs Lamarr hardest schedule in the league. Why does no one bring these things up????
Because they can’t and won’t to support their agenda.
Majority of Cook’s TDs are within 10 yards of the goaline. How do you think the Bills get within 10 yards? Josh Allen
Tell me you've only watched one bills game without telling me you've only watched on bills game. Using Amari Cooper as an excuse is all you need to say. How many of those Cook Td's have been from the goal line. Derek Henry anyone? Zay Flowers Anyone? #1 Ranked Defense/ #2 ranked oline anyone? Mark Andrews/ Isiah Likely anyone? Lamar losing to the Browns/Raiders anyone? LMAO
@rajkaranvirk7525 you can say the same for Josh rushing tds😂😂😂
Lol word Cook has 1 less TD than Henry
Lamar can do everything that Josh can do, but Josh can’t do everything Lamar can do. Case closed.
Lamar can’t do everything Josh do and Josh can’t do everything Lamar do.
@ wrong
Lamar can’t run over a Linebacker
@ he doesn’t need to.
lol Josh can play good in the playoffs, Lamar can’t 😂
Side note NFL Passer rating and rushing record in the same season.. 🤷🏾♂️
The media DEADED that QB rush record immediately
I mean it is impressive and cool but allen broke like 6 records this year and has like 30 plus more rushing tds than lamar in his career so like yds are cool but....
@@jd229 you’re saying that like the yards didn’t end in a td. there’s a reason lamar has more passing tds than josh. and then the goal line tds go to henry. so like tds are cool but……..
Lamar won with a pathetic 29 Td’s last year. Why is it now a stat award this year?
@@jd229oh career I thought we're talking about now
9:16 so you can’t say passing yards are irrelevant because their usually on losing teams because they’re down, then use derrick henry to discredit because good RBs are usually on good teams. it’s the same argument of irrelevancy
you run the ball more when you’re leading, therefore if derrick henry looked good, it’s because lamar is doing his job well. this is the most cherry picked mvp convo in history i sweat
very good point and applies for all of Burrow, Baker, Allen and to a lesser extent Goff. Teams that at times have not fully trusted their defence and started to really sling it. Lamar leads the league in yards per attempt. Burrow and Goff have thrown it 606 times each. Lamar 442 and adding rushes and rush attempts, he leads the league in total yards and yards per attempt. For the record, Josh Allen is 9th. It's not really close and they all know that but they would hate to give it to Goff or Darnold and to be honest both deserve it over Josh Allen.
I don’t even understand this race. Lamar is leading in almost every important individual measurable stat category with higher wr drop% and a higher pressure% than Allen.
More tds, more passing yds, more rushing yds, less ints, higher completion%, higher y/a, lower bad pass%, higher completed air yards per attempt, [more fumbles, lower on target%(by 1%)]. And when people say “stats don’t matter” the MVP is and always has been a statistically leaning award.
Well it hasn’t been that for the last few years and it isn’t changing. Allen’s gonna win this year for the same reason Lamar won last year
The arguments they are making for MVP have never been used for any other MVP. Lamar makes people change their own rules lol.
How so. The goal post has been moved this year in favor of Lamar. Unlike last year
@Xb1-w5j I never heard them talk about wins and loses for MVP. Not in football. We know a good player on a terrible team ain't getting it but splitting hairs over 2 games. I never saw or heard it. And Lamar having talent has never been brought up with any other MVP.
Right, like last year. Josh had more Passing TDs, far more Passing YDs and more Rushing TDs than Lamar, but the main narrative was "Ravens have more wins than the Bills."
We’ve changed the rules for Lamar to add in rushing TDs and rushing yards to account for him, didn’t see problems with that.
@JordanT3025 the first MVP he won, he led the league in passing TDs? Wtf are you talking about?
Bills have won 3 games when Josh Allen played bad
Josh is 6-2 below a 110 rating and Lamar is 0-5 below a 110 rating
Weird
@ weird how that works right? But he don’t have weapons lol
It's because Allen has made the right plays when he needed to. Every time he has a bad game he makes crazy plays in critical moments when he needs to. Go watch more football lol
@ I watch football every week lol that’s deff not always the case but it sounds good when you type it lol
@@trello413 Go back and watch those games that they won and Allen played bad. You'll see at least 2-3 critical plays from each of those games that allen made.
Those three are haters.. SMH
..We had the hardest schedule out of everybody. We destroyed The Buffalo Bills.. U not going to look at there..
This man Emmanuel did not say the tape for Allen is better!! Wow! I struggle to think any sane person watches their film side by side and comes away thinking Allen is better. The Bills also played a significantly easier schedule and went 2-3 vs playoff teams...
Strength of Schedule at the start of the year which is how its all calculated Buffalo had the harder one, try again with that statement. Just like next years when SoS comes out it will be based on this year. Also Ravens lost to 2 teams below .500 Josh didn't
@@nutrageous8675but Josh played bad in the ravens and had one of the worst games by any quarterback this year against the Texans.
Yea him saying the film for Allen is better. Craziest thing I heard😭
@@nutrageous8675 losses are not simply a QB metric. Lamar played well in the losses to every team except the first Steelers game. He can't catch the ball too and play defense...look at Josh's performance against the same opponents. Lamar outperformed him against both the chiefs and the Texans. Only difference was each team beat the opposite opponent.
@@nutrageous8675 that's where TAPE matters.. TAPE shows Lamar didn't lose those games, our terrible defense and special teams did. But that doesn't fit the narrative of the average fan who just want to say "Lamar lost to the Raiders and Browns"..first of in the AFC North.. the browns often times beat each division opponent at least once..most years.. it's the AFC North..they are always a toss up...and 2nd Lamar played well/great in every game except the first Steelers game and even then he played better than pervious Steeler games lol. TAPE matters.
Shady says “If Josh has a bad game they team will Lose If Lamar has a bad game they team can still win”
So did Josh Play good last week against the Pats?🤣 NO and they still won, Bills had a few games where Josh played bad and still won idk why no one responded with that
@@PoorIQJo colts game he had 0 TDs and 2 INTs and the Bills still won. I really wish James had a research person.
@@youngOmackinI wish Shady had a research person 😂. Because he obviously has the two QBs backwards.
@@youngOmackin Literally, Seems lazy if you ask me
They be saying anything
Shady was saying Lamar was going to surpass Allen after he would beat the Steelers and now acts like he never said that 😂. This is scripted, they are paid by the employer to push a narrative sent by the NFL to that employer
JJ knows, Tape = Lamar is better than EVERYONE. The argument Josh's tape is better is all they're going either because Lamar's stats are bett3r too lol it's close but Lamar #3MVP
Stop the narrative that Allen has to help. Top 3 rated o line, James cook leads all rd w 16td, the bills defense leads the league in total takeaways. Amari cooper is an all pro wr
And Lamar had the worst defense in the entire league
ong
Thank you
i keep seeing people bringing up pro bowls when zay flowers didn’t deserve to make it at all
@@nanikwofie4348 What happened last year when he had the #1 defense? This year he has 9 Pro Bowlers and we still talking about help?
D Rose MVP Wasn't Debatable
Definitely was. What happened when rose met Bron in the playoffs that year?
@@professorzoom4467 cut it out. You’re trying to restart a 15 year old argument
@@gilzerofan16You want to go there, how about Bron didn't deserve ROTY or at least 2 of those MVPs
@@MAXIMA347Ope! Here we go
@@MAXIMA347 I’m not even a bron fan I honestly don’t care for his accolades, I’m just being real. There’s no way you can sit here and lie and say rose was more valuable than LeBron at any point of his career. When it comes to MVP voting they it’s just a matter of who’s the hottest at the moment, not the best.. which it should be.
They’re really trying to coerce ppl into voting for Josh Allen lol give him his pitty award
So Acho thinks Lamar doesn't look better on film??!!
He dont
Acho is actually a terrible analyst he thinks he's smarter than he actually is
He made up his mind MONTHS ago
@@skeetlouch You are delusional. Lamar looks ALIEN on tape
Look at the show last week, he said the opposite. Plus, Lamar has a must-win game to go! When you gotta LIE to make you case and leave out, strength of schedule and total yards of offense, but count total TD's to make it look close, you loss! 12-13 1 yard TD runs, but Lamar has 900 rush yards. You count rush TD's but don't count rush yard! DIABOLICAL
Lamar is the MVP and there is no legitimate debate for anyone else.
Steelers fan here even if Lamar gets the MVP that’s all he getting this year lol y’all Raven better bring it or face an upset 😈
Either Chase really dislikes Lamar or he wishes he could be Josh Allen. Because every time this conversation comes up, he is grasping for straws on how Josh is better than Lamar.
🎯
The eye test! Go watch Allens 41 tuddies this yr
He’s not grasping at straws, he points out facts to show why Allen’s better. Lamar has never been better than Allen and he still isn’t😂
Watch josh allen play the Texans @@Jmarsh100
@@richardforbes943PFF grades off the “eye test” and in their subjective opinion, Lamar is better and the best QB in the NFL… and they also think that Josh Allen is not even second best, but rather 3rd best… with the eye test. 😂
Allen has no stat argument, no eye test argument, the SOS negates the better talent argument, and Josh also doesn’t have the “best player on the best team” argument.
His only argument is “well he beat the Chiefs and the Lions.” And it’s quite possible that after this final week, so will the Broncos and the Vikings will be the top team in the NFC and Josh just beat a team that’s the 5th seed in their conference.
Josh is 2-3 against playoff teams, Lamar is 7-3. Let’s be real here. These guys are bias, they just don’t want Lamar to be a 3x MVP. Shady because he is friends with Josh (0 MVPs) and Mahomes (2 MVPs). Lamar still won’t be better than Mahomes until he’s got multiple rings, but he’s still going to root for his teammates.
Lamar had the harder schedule and leads the league in YPA and YPC. It’s nuts it’s even a convo.
Josh won a game going 0 TDs and 2 INT. Ravens haven’t even come close to winning a game like that. Crazy people forget in the beginning of the season Bills had to go get Amari because Josh went 9/30 in a game
These are really prepared debates
Man you're one of the good ones
If James did his research, he could have buried all three of them no hesitation because everything he would have said would have been facts and logic.
@@LeetraviusMcKay-q6m agreed
7:11 Josh having better film over Lamar is crazy. Acho said one play Allen did 😂. Lamar got so many plays this year
That comment went way over your head…wow
So Josh looks better than Lamar on film? Lol cut it out
Against better competition Allen looks better. Allen = Chiefs and Lions (and won) vs Lamar = Chiefs and Eagles (and lost).
Josh has a bigger impact on the bills than Lamar has on the Ravens.
@@doogiebear139 Bingo, 9 Pro Bowlers to 2. That has to matter, and all those "Lamar doesn't have help" 9 Pro Bowlers sounds like a lot of help to me.
Yep he certainly does, you must be looking through a lens...?
@@AilmanF2Ppro bowlers are fan votes so it doesn’t matter
Funny how when pat had hill and kelce the best wr/te duo at the time that wasnt used against pat to give him mvp... this is crazy
Lamar don’t have the number 1 seed nor does he have 50Tds or 5000 passing yards in 16 games, dude 11-5 fighting for wildcard. Not the same as Mahomes, stop it!
@@justingreene3672you ain’t gotta lie to make your point lol.. the Ravens will be the 3 seed and the Bills 2. Ravens beat every single team that will make the playoffs except for the Chiefs, but nice try lol
@@justingreene3672neither does Allen this year and you missing his point. All of the best QBs in the history of the game have won mvps playing with hall of fame talents. Why is it being held against Lamar this year ?
@@Finnissee0122The difference is Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce weren’t as dominant and great until they got with Patrick Mahomes.
@@kendrickdw0777 Where’s the lie? 😂😂
Y’all takes are horrible on the mvp debate lol 😂😂😂😂 but Lamar for mvp
Basically let's find a way to discredit every MVP who's had All-Pro weapons to give Josh Allen an MVP
LaMar won 2 MVPs before king Henry Arrived in Baltimore!!
It’s so childish having a argument about who is wining with the least amount of talent it’s ridiculous
Let's bring up stats when Burrow has better stats He has more int's because he throws more.
@@AmazingXpectationz1982 And he shouldnt have won last year.
@@kensmith2829 Not with 22 turnovers and one game away from missing the playoffs.
If its not numbers, than WHY is Burrow in the conversation now?
because its basically " let make ANYONE but Lamar MVP"
Ok then why did Lamar win it last season?
@@CAF420ALLDAY7 7:27
@@CAF420ALLDAY7 easy number 1 seed dominated 11 playoff teams with two rb hurt Andrews for most of the season and Stanley… he just led the number 1 team rushing in rushing and the number 4 scoring offense to the number 1 seed without Henry does that sound like Allen to you? Noooooo he was throwing 18 picks with a top 5 WR
@@Oceanz08 Bullseye
I was told the chiefs were mid all year just for people to turn around and use “he beat the chiefs” as a strength for their mvp case 😭😭😭
Funny how that works
5:27 i keep hearing this “ITS JOSH’S TIME” huh?? this ain’t a participation trophy
But it is Josh's time because he deserves the MVP.
Who has done more for their team? The guy that can sit the final game because of what he's done all season, or the guy that has to play the final week to try and avoid a wildcard spot.
Bills have only lost to 3 current division leaders. Can't say the same about the Ravens, they've got losses to division last place.
Apparently, their "voter-fatigue" says it is ...
I guess LJ's going to need to get a Superbowl MVP instead.
Facts
@@tw897 hey dude, idk if you know this, but the ravens had the 4th hardest schedule this year. bills had the 22nd, and it will always be relatively easy as long as their division is 6 auto wins
allen struggled against the 3 win pats 2 weeks ago btw. so sitting the final week is not a competitive argument for your guy, sorry to say
It's a sympathy award.
They act as if the man is retiring tomorrow 😂
20 years from now lmao. Acho stop, aint no one going to be talking about this
Depends on if these guys go on to the hall of fame, win superbowls then maybe it will be
They'll talk about the pity award that it became.
When JJ said what film you watching I screamed
So you're saying on tape, the pitch back to Allen is more impressive than Lamar juking defenders making them look incredibly silly while throwing dots to his receivers? They are trying to give Allen way more credit for plays that require less skill. They even called one of his INTs an Arm Punt lol
Allen breaks/avoids defenders and throws bombs to his recievers too lol. Honestly the main reason him and Lamar are considered elite players are both their abilities to escape the pocket and make magic outta nothing
Exactly
@@dsmangamaster Your take is more than reasonable. And that's the problem. We can make a case for either of them depending on the criteria you chose to pick. But looking better on tape ( Allen threw 9 for 30 against the Texans!!!!!!!!) is just nonsense. Allen has 3 things in his favor: more wins, playing with lesser talented players, more rushing TD's. That's it. I'm a wins guy so if I were basing it strictly on wins Allen gets it. But Acho has had his vote locked in for a month and he is now grasping at straws trying to justify it.
@@dsmangamaster Allen is capable of making most of the plays Lamar can make, he just can't do it as well or consistently. Lamar has a highlight reel play EVERY GAME and he's throwing DOTS
Less skill? WTF are u talking about? Watch receiver separation. Ravens have #1 yardage separation in NFL. Guess where Bills are....25th
Stop bringing up Derek Henry bro smh
How come jalen hurts isn't having an mvp year?, and he's got the best rb in the league rn ? So how does that effect lamar
Cause hurts has played like trash for half the year. And is not an elite qb
This is the dumbest comment
Jalen hurts hasn't thrown for 3 touchdowns the whole year..
I love James Jones calling out the hypocrisy and disingenuous of the panel. They had no real standing so they had to start jumping around and gang up on him. Lmao. This video gotta go viral.
Acho didn't see Allen on film against the Texans or Patriots?
For sure not against the Ravens, because we MADE him sit down a whole quarter.
😂😂😂😂
That's 2 games. The NFL season is 17 games long
The film vs Texans wasnt bad, you just saw the stat line. He didn't have his top 2 wrs, and his receivers dropped 6 easy catches. Also it turns out it's a 17 game season....
EXACTLY!!!!
I love how everybody act like Amari Cooper not over there and Cook
Cook is good, he’s not Henry. Amari has played less than half the season in Buffalo. I love how everybody acted like stats didn’t matter last year and this year they’re the only thing that matters. Josh has more wins with less talent. Period. Any other year, I think Lamar would win. Allen has been the most valuable player to his team by far.
Cooper has played 7 games and has 2 TDS and 18 catches.....
Nobody said stats didnt matter bc ppl noticed josh had 20+ turnovers so dont be disingenuous on why he didnt win.. he wasnt even 2nd dak was lol @coleg7876
@@donkeybus the crazy thing is that with his caliber of talent Cooper opens up everything else for the other guys to eat
Amari Cooper, Keon Coleman, Dalton Kinkaid all 3 former first round picks.
Pro bowl votes are meaningless. I've watched every Ravens game, and I can tell you the only guys who deserve to b in the pro-bowl are Lamar, Henry, Humphrey, and Hamilton. The rest of the guys got in on name recognition. Josh also has a MUCH weaker schedule and strength of victory, which is largely why he can "do more with less". I'm with these guys, I don't think you can be mad with either, but their reasons for picking Josh are pretty overstated. And voter fatigue is bogus to admit to.
And Allen has had quite few more bad games than Lamar, and yet he still won those. The Ravens lose if Lamar plays bad.
Allen has also played more top 10 Defenses than Lamar. Also the reverse for Allen: He can have 6 TDs and lose.
We all just gonna ignore strength of schedule huh.
Thank you
Of course they are… Josh is doing “more with less” they say… but on mention the LESSER competition they play. It’s just ridiculous
This ain't college football. Keep that over there
Allen in a weaker division
This show has taught me that just because you played a sport, doesn't mean your opinions can't be flawed. You can't turn on the tape and see that Lamar has played better than Josh? Acho sites one example of a receiving TD, but what about all that Lamar has done that shows up on tape as well as the stat line?
Lololol. Jones sitting there thinking. “Man these guys are dumb.”
If the passer rating don’t matter, why them players wit the highest passer rating win then ? And all of them had their teams in the playoffs those years they won MVP. Make it make sense brotha.
Anything to downplay Lamar… why in the world are they holding the loses against Lamar… but not against Josh? This is exhausting man…
Achoo literally gives the worst takes...saying JA passes the eye test more than Lamar is insane smh
LMAO Lamar has literally lost every game he is under 110 passer rating. He has to be playing at an insane level to get a W.
3-3 against playoff teams vs 7-3 against playoff teams
5-0 against 4 or less win teams vs 1-2 🤡
@kadenrundall4246 so that's better that 7 -3 vs playoff teams? You sound dumb 😂😂😂🤡🤡🤡
@@dstryerone_5227 Completely changes if the Dolphins make the playoffs. Then it's 5-3 vs 6-3. And the Dolphins would be in if Tua did hurt himself
@@ryanshedler4861 "ifs and buts"
@@ryanshedler4861and that could completely change if Bengals make it and then Ravens are 9-3…. I mean we can do “IFs” all day
Chase Daniel’s telling JJ “you came along way” like he’s not the terrible/ and the newbie here? Lmao
Acho just be talking to talk....
He'll use 40 words to say what can be said in 4. He's a yapper that loves the sound of his own voice
Strength of Schedule and Strength of Victory.
I definitely disagree, because Lamar did it with less talent before too. Now he got the weapons they feel bad for Josh Allen. They definitely didn’t feel bad for Lamar.
If Lamar wins looking at the stats and schedule ain't nobody gonna say josh should have won
They are 11-5 😂
@@CAF420ALLDAY7because they schedule and division is tougher duh
Lamar has been QB1 for 3 years now.
Oh yeah, in the payoffs he's Action Jackson for one game....the man has more in common with Dak than Pat :)
Exactly, buddy doesn’t have one good playoff game and he talking about QB1😂
Tom Brady had 4 seasons in his whole career with at least 40 TDs. Allen has 5 in the last 5 seasons. He’s the only Qb to have 4 in a row and one if only 2 QBs to have 5 at all. The fact that he doesn’t already have an mvp is a travesty.
Compare Lamar’s stats to Tanehills in 2020 when Henry was running at a similar level. Every game the ravens have lost, Henry has had under 85 rushing yards. Lamar is stat padding, they move the ball on the legs of Henry then let Lamar pad inside the 10. Allen is handing the ball off from the 1 and sitting the 4th quarter in week 17. Allen has had over 100 less snaps than Lamar because his stats are to win games not to win a media award and he has sit an entire game worth of 4th quarters. Ravens pass catchers have the most separation in the league bills bottom 3 separation. What are we talking about here?
Passer rating is calculated using a player passing attempts, completions, passing yards, touchdown passes, and interceptions, essentially measuring their passing efficiency by taking into account all these factors combined.
I honestly don’t care who wins tbh even tho I prefer Lamar I just don’t like the blatant lies
Don’t take Lamar out early this week… Let him get 4 to 5 throwing touchdowns
Lamar has did it with less before and he beat the breaks offf of Allen
Man... They just ignored the Ravens defense and special teams and the strength of schedule. Josh is playing lesser talent in comparison.
Buddy we played both 1st seeds and Bills defense hasn’t been amazing either AND we have Tyler Bass as our kicker
Film vs stats diabolical Lamar Jackson 3x MVP Super Bowl MVP ❤️🔥🥂⏳
It’s wild that they say the Ravens will still win when Lamar is off, but the Bills won’t. Meanwhile, Allen got bailed out by his team when he played poorly against the colts and patriots
He threw for 2 TDs and ran for 1 with 0 turnovers. Can you enlighten us on how bad his performance was?
@karisa1022Yea he's buggin he talking about josh allen played poorly against the the bills🤣🤣🤣
@karisa1022He's actually talking about when he played terrible against the colts and patriots and still won. And then he played even worse against the ravens and texans, which were by far worse than any performance Lamar had all season with the exception of maybe the steelers loss
@karisa1022 i glitched. Meant to say colts and patriots
The reason why the whole "Look who's on his team" thing is misleading is because having an elite QB can make almost anyone look good. The Ravens have a higher dropped pass % than the Bills. Also, Allen's bad throw % is 3% higher than Lamar's. and Lamar's on target % is 4% higher than Allen's.
On top of that, look at Gus Edwards, who was solid for the Ravens last season. His production fell off a cliff. Look at Henry. he's having the best yards/carry in his career. Why is that? It's because you have to game plan for Lamar pulling the ball and taking off. Every single game, you'll see a defender run after Lamar even though he handed the ball off, creating uneven matchups.
And he is making them all better..He being him Josh Allen!
@@richardforbes943 Allen's bad pass % is 3 points higher than Jackson. Allen's on target % is 4 points lower than Jackson (all of this with the Bills O-Line being waaaay better than the Ravens... 16% pressure rate vs Lamar's 20% pressure rate). Maybe if Allen was more accurate, his numbers would be higher and would have a more convincing argument as to why he should be MVP.
@@draethereum Yeah and it took them 7 years to get it right! And we have a guy at center playing out of position and a 2nd yr guard so it isnt perfect. Oh he accurate I would put that on his new wr's that didnt know the playbook! Gotcha! Eye test tells you everything you need to know
@@draethereum Lamar definitely helps Henry and Flowers, but they clearly help him too. Your comparison with Gus Edwards shows that: Edwards had like 800 yards last season and Henry has 1,800 this season. So the upgrade from Edwards to Henry is an extra 1,000 yards. This is also why Lamar is getting less credit this year for MVP than previous years -- Lamar is now surrounded by elite talent on offense. It's no longer a one-man show
@@richardforbes943 Fun fact: Lamar's receivers have a higher drop % than Allen's receivers LOL. Want to try again?
They had to issue Lamar an apology this season…they about to do it again lol
A fun fact to look at is the Strength of Schedule Played. Where Ravens have met the 2 hardest schedule and Bills have met the 21 hardest schedule
Nobody considers strength of schedule. Lamar got last year on inferior stats because of only 3 losses. He has 5 losses this year after adding Henry who was their team MVP half the season. Allen lost leagues top receiver for the prior 4 years (Diggs) and improved his stats, reduced his turnovers, and won more games when not even expected to win division. Fifth straight season with 40+ combined TDs.
Payton Manning had Reggie Wayne, Edgerin James, and Marvin Harrison on his team though 🤔
& Dallas Clark
Since when have we ever held a players supporting cast against them when it came to MVP voting???
Every year that's what an MVP is.
Since the Lamar fan boys came into the NFL
In 2025 I hope people show more love to James Cook, Amari Cooper, Khalil Shakir, Keon Coleman, Dalton Kincaid and others who recently are being made out to be bums, for Josh Allen's MVP campaign. 😢💔
lol exactly. Josh hasn’t been throwing it to ghosts.
I agree. I quietly knew that Coleman was a good draft and that Shakir and Kinkaid would have good seasons. In fact I expected more from Kinkaid this year. Knox always dependable too. Good reliable receivers. Shout out to Hollins too.
Cook - he’s a beast.
I'm a Bill's fan I think the point they are trying to make is that they are not house hold names. They are here in Buffalo but not round the league.
@@sgtnutnut2466 Cooks, Kincaid, Knox, Cooper… are all names that I am very familiar with. (Shakir has been on since last year)
Literally no one was raving about them beginning of the season and none of them are pro bowlers stop crying
Acho lost me 🤣🤣🤣🤣. No way Josh looks better than Lamar.
Man Bills WRs catching more strays this year than they catching passes
Acho said a whole bunch of nothing. Every Josh did, Lamar did better
Achos argument at 7:27 is the reason Lamar won last year 😂😂😂 just sad how people can’t see their own inconsistencies
So the Bills are the 1 seed this yr and blewout the 2 seed 56-19? 23' Ravens had the third highest DVOA ever after 72 Dolphins and 07 Patriots. The Bills this yr are nothing like the Ravens last yr. Josh Allen had 18 ints last yr and was 5th in MVP odds. He got one MVP vote to Lamar's 49 and people want to act like it was close - it wasn't. If Lamar sets the passer rating record and they give it to Allen it's pure nonsense.
Its Josh Allen there is no debate. This ain't even a debate . MVP is the most valuable player. Josh has one other probowlee on his team. ONE!! LAMAR HAS NINE!!! The head to head with Josh Henry ran for 200 yards with 3 TDs!! The Houston game Henry ran for 146 and didn't play the last drive. Lamar passed 10 times for 160 or so. Like the #1 worry playing the Ravens is Derrick Henry. The #1 worry playing the Bills is Josh Allen
So u can b 22nd n Comp % have multiple no TD int games four games where your QBR iz n da 60s name 1 person who won a MVP wit deez josh allen stats I'll wait!!! SMMFH
The only reason zay flowers made the probowl is bc the nfl needed more propaganda like this to boost Josh's claim ...its all propaganda
Bruh what Propaganda? It’s true, no Super Bowl contender looks at the Bills skill position players and thinks “yeah I’d rather have them over mine”
So say flowers doesn’t deserve to be a pro bowler ? Gtfoh
@@basil1913Flowers is whatever Lamar makes him. Nobody had Zay Flowers from BC on their draft radar besides Lamar. He basically had to beg for him 😂
@@rajkaranvirk7525 Idk I'd take the top 10 receiver in Cooper
@@jayjackson3238 What’s your team? Ravens?
Shady just said that Lamar can play bad and the ravens win... Whaaaat??? Lamar needs to play on an MVP level in order for the Ravens to win. Josh went 16-29 and won. Verse the Patriots
It was 3 degrees and he injured his throwing arm.
That’s because Shady is blind to the facts and just says weird things.
Yeah I thought I was loosing my mind when he said that.
Should be the year of the rb. Barkley needs the mvp