Woodturning - Beginners Guide Revisited #6 - The Scraper Traditional and Negative Rake
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.พ. 2020
- Robo Hippy: / robohippy
Villy Wood turning: / @villywoodworking
Simon Hope: www.hopewoodturning.co.uk/
Yorkshire Grit: yorkshire-grit.com/
Hampshire Sheen: www.hampshiresheen.com/
Easy Wood Tools: www.easywoodtools.com/
Easy Wood Tools at Amazon UK:
www.amazon.co.uk/Easy-Wood-To... - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Perfect tone and approach…Really appreciate your way of supporting all turners…
Thank you very much appreciated.
Hi Mike...Great video again...useful ideas....I have made a negative rake scraper from a standard scraper and I agree that they are much more forgiving and easy to use....nice one ...All the best....Andy
Thanks Andy, pleased to hear that we concur mate 🙂.
Cheers
Mike
Negative finally explained.......now I understand. Loving the series. Thanks Mike.
I meant negative rake of course...
Glad your enjoying them Owen.
Nice video mike, thanks for the tips, i will try this
Thank you Etienne let me know how you get on.
Watching from Belgium. Very usefull. And a understandable nice english for a not native speaker.
Glad you enjoyed it Pierre and thanks for watching.
Mike great video as usual. I learn several things that I did not realize what I was doing. Thanks Mike
Thank you Lucien much appreciated.
Very nice. Very interesting. I am a "self-taught" turner. I have been turning for over 50 years, but every time I watch one of your videos I learn something, or some things! I just started using scrapers a couple of years age and I find that I like them very much. I have heard about negative rake scrapers, but had never seen one let alone seen one in action. Now I have. Thanks for the video and the time you put in making them.
Glad your liking the series Alan snd I really appreciate your kind words snd support.
Every days a school day ....Once again another great tutorial thanks again Mike
Thank you very much Steven.
You are never boring, Mike! Another great video, well explained! You make all of us better turners. Thanks again for sharing your expertise! 👍👍👍🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦
All the best,
.....Gord
Tell that to my wife Gord .... not that she'd listen!!
Thanks mate appreciate it.
Cheers
Mike
This is a really great series Mike, not only for new turners but a good refresher for the more experienced amongst us.
Thank you Alf appreciated it.
Just picked up this link from Kim Tippin. Thanks Mike, for a great tutorial.
Thanks Mike. Your explanations are clear and the demos are very good.
Thank you Karl appreciate you saying that.
Thanks 🙏 à lot mike it’s a great honour for me to be on this wall. Thanks again
The honour is mine Villy 🙂
Thanks Mike! Excellent tutorial on scrappers. 👍
Thank you Ross.
Another great instructional video. Like the hints on putting negative grinds on regular scrapers, well done Master Mike Craig
Thank you Craig much appreciated.
Another superb informative video, Mike. I agree with you 100% that you cannot beat negative rake scrapers. Apart from a bedan all mine are now reground to negative. Coincidentally I have a1” round nosed that’s ground 35/35 that is absolutely superb and so much more dependable. I’ll add this video to our website.
Thank you Graham glad you concur, and once again thanks for adding the video.
Cheers
Mike
Well dang it, Mike! You're inspiring me to drop some $$$ for a negative rake scraper now. Cheers, mate!
Lol David before you buy, regrind one of yours to see if you like it. Thanks for watching.
I am with you on the 35/35 grind Mike, it works well.
Glad you concur Shay and thank lass for watching.
Excellent section of videos mike you first one on scrapers help me get the best out of using mine i know have razor sharp egde and a perfectly finished turning thank you for all you good work and knowledge your a legend and an asset to the woodturning world
Thank you very much for your kind words Phil I really appreciate it mate.
Love the “revisited” series Mike. Well done!
Thank you Mark much appreciated.
Mike, thank you for this series, I've picked up some very useful and handy tips.
Glad you found it of some use and thanks for watching.
Very, very helpful. Especially the tip on the diamond card tune-up. Thank you so much.
Glad you enjoyed the video Chuck.
Great info video Mike! The Basics should always be revisited from time to time! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Bruce appreciate you stopping by mate.
Between you and robo hippy I've learned a great deal. Thanks
Happy to hear that you find my videos of some use.
Thank you for a very nice and concise presentation.
Glad you enjoyed it Stuart and thanks for watching.
Thanks again Mike. just watched your video on negative scraper for second time. heading into the garage/workshop to try and convert one of my scrapers. fingers crossed.
You won't be disappointed Frankie. Stay safe my friend.
I have really learned a lot from these videos and I am grateful for the time you have put into making them. Thanks for sharing
Great to hear Tony and thank you for watching and commenting.
Thank you, Mike, for your videos! They are very useful!
I'm glad you enjoy them, and thanks for your kind words and support.
Mike, very helpful thanks. I always learn a great deal from you. All the best from MT....cheers
Thank you MT much appreciated.
Thanks for the continued tutorials!!
.... and thank you for watching Stanley.
Once again Mike another excellent instructional video. I find I'm using my scrapers more often having watched your previous video on them & I've just purchased the Henry Taylor Jason Breach signature box scrapers.
Thank you T glad you find the videos of some use, I bet those Hason Breech scrapers will be top notch 🙂
Thanks for the science, Mike! For me, this is a hobby, but I will definitely make such tools!!! You're good at showing the capabilities of the tool!!!! СПАСИБО!!!!!!
Thank you Ivan much appreciated.
Mike Waldt another good video and very timely for me. I was struggling with a bowl today that was very easy to produce tear-out on. Tried to use my freshly sharpened standard scraper to clean it up, but was using it wrong - handle horizontal. Worked somewhat, but I got a couple of catches that took more time to correct. I’m going to go to the shop tomorrow and regrind one of my scrapers to a 35-35 as you suggest and see how that works for me. Thanks again. Your videos have helped me immensely transition from carbide tools to traditional tools to broaden my options and increase my skills. Cheers, Tom
Thank you Tom much appreciated. Key Mr knope what you think of the Negative Rake grinds when you've tried them out.
Mike Waldt Don’t you just love Autocorrect? I translated “Key Mr knope” to “Let me know” and I’ll do so. Thanks again. Cheers, Tom
Thanks for the vid Mike always learn something from you . Cheers take care.
Thanks for that Glen much appreciated mate.
Great demo Mike, I took your advice and made my two scrapers into negative rake and they work well.
Thanks Ivor pleased to hear that you like them.
Another brilkiant video, Mike. I need to figure out how to reshape my scrapers.
Thanks john much appreciated.
Thanks Mike, I will try that on my scraper, it make sense what you say....and it looked like it was cutting smooth like butter....keep up the great work!....cheers. from Canada :)
You'll not be disappointed Danny. Thanks for watching.
Hi Mike, I have been waiting for someone to come up with a tutorial on scrapers for some time now, as I bought a scraper a while ago but all I knew about it was that it does end grain well and haven't been game to use it much. I have included some wood turning with other wood work which I do. you are a good teacher in my opinion and very easy to understand, so I watch all of your video's Thanks again bike, From Bill :)
Thank you Bill for your kind words and support I really do appreciate it.
You you do an awesome job love watching your informative videos
Thank you Tristan much appreciated m
Hi mike so so useful information. Thank u.
Thanks for watching Manjit.
Thanks Mike very informative n helped me a lot.
Hi Dave and thank you mate.
Great video. I agree with your points on negative rake scrapper..I have converted most of my scrapper to negative rake as it takes the risk of catches away and I prefer to hone the edge more regularly than to risk a catch and damage my piece.I 👍👍👍
Thank you and glad you concur 🙂
Love these videos, I'm still trying to learn how to use some of the tools properly and your videos go a long way to helping. Thank you so much for you efforts to help out us newbies!
Glad to hear that you are finding them useful, hearing that makes it worthwhile. Thank you.
My sediments precicely. :)
Thanks for this video. Learned something new again. I have struggled with my scraper and now know that I have been holding my scraper at the wrong angle. I will reshape one of my scrapers to negative rake . Thanks again.
Glad to be of some help Ed and thanks for watching.
Thank you your video was a great help
Regards
Steve UK London
Really valuable stuff again, Mike, and your experiences and practices mirror mine closely, right down to the traditional 1/2" scraper. Mine has always had an 80 degree angle, which makes sure I keep the handle up.(Lowering the tool rest too far for spindle work can occasionally invite entrapment and damage). I particularly liked your pointing out the different types of shavings to be expected. I buy few edge tools now, but recently used a Christmas gift voucher towards a straight inboard side scraper, which should improve quality and speed when hollowing some of my boxes. Thanks once more. Bernard.
Thank you Bernard, nice to hear we have the near same methods 🙂
Great info Mike, thx.
Thank you Thomas.
Another superb demonstration from you mate , I bought some old tools from a market a while back ,time to make a couple of those scrapers I think
Cheers Mike, Bram
Thanks Bram, I think you'll like hope they perform, let me know mate.
Cheers
Mike
Will do mate!
Got this from Kim tipping very good info I'll keep wotching thanks
Thanks George and thanks to Kim as well.
Thanks Mike. Good information.
Much appreciated Steve and thank you.
Very Good tips Thanks
Thank you Charles.
Very well explained
Thank you very much.
Thank you Mike. Greetings vom Austria ! 🇦🇹
..... and thank you for watching Mac.
Thank you sir.
Thank YOU for watching.
Very nice nice tips 👍
Thank you Sir!
Very helpful
Thank you Richard.
good information , I am going to check my
Thanks Glenn.
Thanks, Mike. I always enjoy your videos. You're a natural teacher. I wonder if there is any reason to use a traditional scraper? It seems like the negative rake scraper is definitely the way to go!
Hi Gayle and thanks for your kind words, as with most things I think it comes down to personal preference.
i dont mean to be off topic but does anyone know a method to log back into an Instagram account..?
I was stupid lost my login password. I would love any tips you can give me.
@Bennett Angelo Instablaster ;)
@Kobe Brayden I really appreciate your reply. I found the site thru google and I'm waiting for the hacking stuff atm.
Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will reply here later with my results.
@Kobe Brayden it worked and I now got access to my account again. I am so happy:D
Thanks so much, you saved my ass!
As a beginner, I have a set of chisels, half of which I have no idea how to use them. :)
Your videos should come with a boxed set! For the first time I know what that odd shaped heavy one is - and how I'd like to regrind it! Thank you - again! :)
Glad to be of service Ken and thank you for your kind words.
Love the vid.
Thank you glad you enjoyed it and thanks for watching.
Thanks Mike - very useful. I will be trying the 35/35 grind which seems to work well. Do you know what has happened to William Hunt who has not posted recently?
Glad you liked the video Roy and found it of some use. William I think is currently persuing other interests, but may return to the Tube in the future 🙂
Super video, Mike. Thanks for sharing your skill with us. Two questions: 1. What do you mean by a hollow grind on a wheel, and 2. Do you have any suggestions on how to set the wolverine at the correct angle?
Thank you Anthony.
The hollow grind is caused by the curvature of the wheel, hence the grind is concave between the heel and the toe of the bevel.
When I had the Wolverine I set the the jig to give my desired sweep and never changed it after that.
@@MikeWaldt Thanks, Mike. That's helpful.
Hi Mike, Another great video explaining the pros & cons of the different scrapers. Question, If you raise the handle of a traditional scraper does that not make it a type of negative rake scraper? Cheers, Huw
Thank you Huw, in my opinion yes is the answer ... but ... that doesn't get away from the fact that it is a vary catch prone practice ... believe me I know from bitter experience. The negative rake is .... again just my opinion ... far far safer and dare I say more effective.
@@MikeWaldt Thanks Mike
Hi Mike..the negative rake scrapers remain a mystery. Question: why should the combined angles of the upper and lower bevel be less than 90 degrees? Next: should the short bevel be "on-top" while using, or vice versa? (Simon Hope's video implies the short bevel is on the "bottom"!) The physics of this grind escapes me! Finally, regarding Simon Hope's tools, I understand Simon cannot ship to the USA or Canada. BUMMER! What is a good source of Simon's tools that CAN be shipped to the USA? Keep up with the GREAT tutorials my friend. You ARE the BEST on You Tube!!
Hi and thank you for your kind words.
If the combined angle is more than 90° you have an obtuse angle that will not create a cutting edge. Regarding the large and small bevels, the deciding factor is the side on which the burr is raised, and Simon's tools are designed to use with larger bevel uppermost. You could use them the other way should you want to, but there is no reason to do so. The reason that he doesn't ship to the US is insurance, but Oliver's Woodturning who is a stockists is looking into the insurance situation, and he may well ship to the US in the future.
Nice. What's the RPM on the dry bowl hollowing?
Approx 1200 rpm.
Love the video. What revs are you using when turning end grain?
Thanks Tim, normally between 1500 and 2000 depending on the species and size of the piece.
Mike Waldt Thanks Mike. I’m just learning and it looks like I’m turning a little low on the revs.
with a 35/35 do you put a burr on both sides?
Hi Mike ..... no you don't .... raise the burr on one side and present to the wood with the burr uppermost. Cheers. Mike
Thanks, again! What counts is what works...but - I just can't figure out WHY a negative rake scraper is less (if at all) catchier than a standard one?
Me neither... but it does 🙂
Thanks for watching.
In my humble opinion I have heard that it's because it's "self feeding" when there isn't a relief angle on top
Hello Mike, Do you think that it's the combined bevel angle that is key? For instance, you like a combined bevel of 70 deg spli 50:50, but what if it were 50 for the lower bevel and 20 for the relief? It's odd that the apparent combined angle is only 60 deg for the standard grind. I have tended to assume that the relief bevel is doing the job of presenting the edge of the blade at an angle that the lifted handle of a standard grind would do.
But negative rakes l believe, lose sharpness faster thaa standard grinds. This would seem odd in your case where the neg rake has the wider angle. Is it that for many who use wheels, the double hollow grind results in an angle at the cutting edge which is much less than expected resulting in a weaker burr? Is it perhaps nott just the intended angle, but also whether the bevel surfaces are hollow (wheel), or flat as on a belt grind? Have you noticed any differences in burr life expectancy since moving across to the Sorby kit?
I suspect that part of the science involves "horses for courses", but it would be nice to find that sweet point. In the meantime, I am still using the standard grind for more aggressive removal and the neg rake for more refined finishes, or where I lose my nerve. Regards, Glenn. :-)
Hello Glen. I have often pondered your very point about 50/20 degrees; having been taught at school with such a tool. Indeed, I now possess a scraper configured thus and am very "at home " with it. Still handle height comes into it though, and it might be easier and safer for 12 year olds to use this tool. Certainly I find NGS blades dull faster than standard; even though I am quite a devotee to traditional flat oil stones and take my time sharpening. I also find leather stropping worth those extra few seconds. Bernard.
@@bernardfutter5327 Hello Bernard, The thing for me is this; why? Full confession, I am lazy and will use anything as long as it feels sharp. But is it as sharp as grinding alone could make it? I have the Sorby kit and most of the tools are sharpened on this. Its quick and provides for exact grinding repetition, with a flat bevel. I do however still use a 6" CBN wheel for a few of the tools and the hollow grind at tip is nothing like the thicker end of the bevel further back. The effect is even more pronounced on thicker blades. Now if the burr, which is the business edge of the Scraper, wears away more quickly the more acute the combined bevel angle, then with a hollow (wheel) grind, should one choose a greater overall angle to compensate. Also, what is the relationship between the lower bevel and the upper relief bevel if like me, most people then still hold the tool handle up, (blade down), according to what is comfortable for them? Does bowl scraping have a different requirement to spindles. For instance, I don't have the nerve to use a standard grind inside a bowl.
Scrapers, well some of mine anyway, look very similar to skews, and there is a crossover in usage between them. And yet the guides in usage and grind seem so much better defined for skews. . . . Sorry to rattle on. Regards, Glenn. :-)
@@glennmay6204 Glen, please don't apologise for exploring this question in depth. However, it doesn't warrant frustration, as you have provided the answer; use what works for you, in terms of ease and surface quality. I must confess, my nerve deserts me at times, and I am wary about standard grind inside bowls, and the right choice can sometimes get confusing.
I see skews as special case scrapers, just as I do carbide tips.( Wickedly sharp!). Then there are bedans,(for spindle work), where the French commonly hold the handle low, as I do, and mine cuts fast with excellent finish. All have different grind angles, but no hollow grinds, and I raise the burr on a flat oilstone.
I feel this might not have answered your question, but, yes, I do feel that bowl scraping occasionally has a different requirement from spindle work, the latter being easier.
I'm interested in your reticence over CBN wheels, but understand their value; though certainly not motivated to invest in one. Best wishes, Bernard.
Hi Glenn, the most important thing in my view is to experiment with various grinds and angles and decide which set up suits your turning style the best. All I set out to do is show my way, which is not necessarily right for everyone .... but it gives food for thought and experimentation 🙂
So is essentially the only downside to a negative rake that it dulls somewhat more quickly?
In my opinion yes it is, but the resulting surface justifies that.
@@MikeWaldt Excellent. Quick access to exceptional sharpening tools is the one advantage I do have over the average hobbyist so I will give this a shot. Thank you very much for your videos.
so just before 9 on the video and your cleaning up
i notice your NOT riding the bevel ????
If you raise the handle you don't ride the bevel Pat.
Me acaban de decir, que el maestro tornero Miguel Sanchez ha fallecido, no sé cuando fué, lo siento.
At 4 minutes "ah crap, I've been doing it wrong"
😁😁😁
мИША АНГЛИЙСКИЙ ТАНК
Thank you.
I really like your videos. They are very instructional for me starting out.
Thanks Glenn, happy to hear that they ste off some use to you.
I have some inexpensive HSS turning tools that I am regrinding to a negative rake edge. On your recommendation I will start with a 35/35 degree angle. Cindy Drozda recommends about 40 degree. I can try both to see what my preference will be. Thanks for sharing Mike. Always good information coming out of the Waldt shop.
Let me know what you think of them Glen and thanks for watching.