I love that he works in a grocery store because he needs to have a job where he didn't have to think about the job. That is so smart! He works to live and keeps his mind to do the analysis and synthesis. I wish I had thought of that earlier in my life!
He does automatic work so he keeps full possession of his mind. Very interesting. I've done the same. Worked a job where I could listen to educational podcasts full time and still get paid a living wage. Weary of giving my life's energy to being someone else's work slave.
It is very sad that so many have been and are still being deceived by Joseph Smith's fantastic stories, no doubt he was a brilliant man and would have done well writing Harry Potter style fiction.
Amazing set of interviews. Vogel is amazing, I love his work, but sometimes I fall asleep trying to listen to his tone. These interviews totally brought out his sweet humble personality and made it an absolute pleasure to learn at his feet. Thank you!
Dan’s words about spirituality and death starting at 26:00 really resonated with me. Thank you, Dan, for your honesty, and John for asking these deep, tough questions.
Dan, just a note to tell you of my appreciation. You are a true scholar and educator. I find your calm, genuine, deep personality so motivating for me to study this amazing religion. I am a 65 year old member who is finding information about the Church on my way out of it. I probably won’t quit because of my family who are ALL devotees. What to do? 💋
Be loyal to the truth. And try to find an emotional place of positively in which to settle deconstructed beliefs. Like Dan, who is grounded and doesn't project animosity. It can be exciting to solve the riddle and learn how all the pieces fit together, of how the Church came to be. Like how Dan admits he's a nerd for it. ..."Hey family, guess what I learned! 101 ways we were deceived! Isn't that so cool!!!" 🥳🤩🤗😇
Life is chaos. That thought gives me comfort. I agree that “ everything makes sense until you bring God into it”. I’m okay with the philosophy of chaos.
Toward the end of the video, listening to your guest describe his mundane day job to support his intellectual persuits was fantastic and encouraging. Perhaps he's aware of Eric Hoffer (whose most famous work The True Believer is very relevant to both Mormonism and our current political moment)... Hoffer worked a 'jobby job' as a longshoreman for decades to persue a similar autodidactic life of scholarship and writing. A brilliant guest and a great series. -a 'never-Mo' atheist fan indulging a fascination streak
I’ve tried to get interested in Dan’s videos but like one person said he lost attention etc But John really brought out Dan’s brilliance especially when Dan talked about the pre “View of the Hebrews “ attitude about the Indians in the US. Also how Dan was a thinker before the internet towards what was given to new members and thank heavens what was not.and luckily what we came to realize!
John!!!... I can't believe how RUDE your questioning was around him working in a grocery store to provide for his family. Your incredulous reaction and disbelief at the humble station he occupies there really really betrayed a snobbery in you that you don't wear well. Not everyone has to have a PhD to be valid. That man was every measure your superior in his areas of expertise. Many of us have opted to have part time menial jobs, that we are grateful for , that allow us the rest of the time to pursue our real passions. You owe him a massive apology for the unnecessary awkwardness that created. Not classy.
Yes I thought the same thing about John's reaction to his job! I was shocked at his inability to believe that Mr. Vogel chose to work in a grocery store as a stock clerk. Check yourself John it was rather ugly! 😔not the John Dehlin I want to see!
This breaks my heart! All these people running up against fences other people have created for them to fight against. You each get to personally decide if the fences actually exist. If you discover they don't, run free. This is the pain of waking up!! Each bird that works itself from the 'safety' of its shell has to discover how dangerous the world is - but also how beautiful. Quit playing other people's games! Love and happiness of the Earth unto all who have the ability to discover it!
I love Dans work... It takes him awhile to make his point. I am so glad you added him to your collection I think you should differentiate what value each interview gives... Like a Sam young joe bishop interview vs Dan Vogel Sandra Tanner Jeremy Runnels Mike Norton.
How ironic that the one true church has propagated common belief from 200 years ago that has otherwise disappeared from society through common sense and acceptance of objective data.
Great point. The irony that the One True Church is actually full of False Doctrine. I think a book should be written about the 101 false doctrines in the church that need to be identified and deconstructed. Might be 1001
Why did the BOM have Native Americans as Jews? Because the idea was all the rage then. Where did the Christ story come from.. A dying and rising man-god? Because the idea was all the rage then.
Sorry, meant thumbs up. Great comment. Also, Egyptian Osiris, Mithradates, endless neolithic traditions repeat the heroic death and rebirth cycles. These are apart from the original female fertility earliest beliefs that even Neanderthals seem to have invented. Human brain invents religion to explain the inexplicable. Joseph Smith followed at least 50,000 years of human behavior.
Why is it that so many experts and "historians" all come up with different information and conclusions and all believe they are right and have gotten to the bottom of Mormonism. I have been binging on anti Mormon videos like this and others and so funny how it is all so different.
Good job Dan. The Book of Mormon is said to be 'another' testimony of Jesus Christ, however, it is really a testimony of 'another' Jesus because Smith redefined who Jesus is. Apostle Paul warns of teaching 'another' Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:4), and and goes on to explain in verses 14 and 15; “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. It is very sad that so many have been and are still being deceived by Joseph Smith's fantastic stories and no doubt he was a brilliant man and would have done well writing Harry Potter style fiction. Jesus built one (1) Church and promised to be with us until the end of the age, so there never was a need to 'restore' His Church. Although Dan seems to lean toward Catholicism but appears to be uncertain as to who God is, but Dan's work is important in warning others as to how false the mormon church is, so people can seek the truth. Ezekiel 33: 9 But if you warn the wicked to turn from his way, and he does not turn from his way; he shall die in his iniquity, but you will have saved your life.
I love that he works in a grocery store because he needs to have a job where he didn't have to think about the job. That is so smart! He works to live and keeps his mind to do the analysis and synthesis. I wish I had thought of that earlier in my life!
He does automatic work so he keeps full possession of his mind. Very interesting. I've done the same. Worked a job where I could listen to educational podcasts full time and still get paid a living wage. Weary of giving my life's energy to being someone else's work slave.
Great to hear Dan's story. A true scholar and gentleman.
It is very sad that so many have been and are still being deceived by Joseph Smith's fantastic stories, no doubt he was a brilliant man and would have done well writing Harry Potter style fiction.
Amazing set of interviews. Vogel is amazing, I love his work, but sometimes I fall asleep trying to listen to his tone. These interviews totally brought out his sweet humble personality and made it an absolute pleasure to learn at his feet. Thank you!
I just throw his videos on 1.75-2x speed and it carries things along MUCH better.
I absolutely love that he is a writer who works at the grocery store.
Dan’s words about spirituality and death starting at 26:00 really resonated with me. Thank you, Dan, for your honesty, and John for asking these deep, tough questions.
Dan, just a note to tell you of my appreciation. You are a true scholar and educator. I find your calm, genuine, deep personality so motivating for me to study this amazing religion. I am a 65 year old member who is finding information about the Church on my way out of it. I probably won’t quit because of my family who are ALL devotees. What to do?
💋
Be loyal to the truth. And try to find an emotional place of positively in which to settle deconstructed beliefs. Like Dan, who is grounded and doesn't project animosity.
It can be exciting to solve the riddle and learn how all the pieces fit together, of how the Church came to be. Like how Dan admits he's a nerd for it.
..."Hey family, guess what I learned! 101 ways we were deceived! Isn't that so cool!!!" 🥳🤩🤗😇
"If there is a God he knows I dont know!" Yessss this is what I always say
Life is chaos. That thought gives me comfort. I agree that “ everything makes sense until you bring God into it”. I’m okay with the philosophy of chaos.
Toward the end of the video, listening to your guest describe his mundane day job to support his intellectual persuits was fantastic and encouraging. Perhaps he's aware of Eric Hoffer (whose most famous work The True Believer is very relevant to both Mormonism and our current political moment)... Hoffer worked a 'jobby job' as a longshoreman for decades to persue a similar autodidactic life of scholarship and writing. A brilliant guest and a great series. -a 'never-Mo' atheist fan indulging a fascination streak
“Demons don’t respond to medication” lol
I’ve tried to get interested in Dan’s videos but like one person said he lost attention etc But John really brought out Dan’s brilliance especially when Dan talked about the pre “View of the Hebrews “ attitude about the Indians in the US. Also how Dan was a thinker before the internet towards what was given to new members and thank heavens what was not.and luckily what we came to realize!
Yeahhhh. I've been waiting for this ones
John!!!... I can't believe how RUDE your questioning was around him working in a grocery store to provide for his family. Your incredulous reaction and disbelief at the humble station he occupies there really really betrayed a snobbery in you that you don't wear well. Not everyone has to have a PhD to be valid. That man was every measure your superior in his areas of expertise.
Many of us have opted to have part time menial jobs, that we are grateful for , that allow us the rest of the time to pursue our real passions. You owe him a massive apology for the unnecessary awkwardness that created. Not classy.
P.S....I was afraid you were going to ask to see a paystub!!!! You've got a lot of nerve
Agree. Why was he even inquiring about his finances to begin with? I don't see the relevance, and it is such a deeply personal question.
@AnarchoRepublican I hear you!
Yes I thought the same thing about John's reaction to his job! I was shocked at his inability to believe that Mr. Vogel chose to work in a grocery store as a stock clerk. Check yourself John it was rather ugly! 😔not the John Dehlin I want to see!
@@molanymurad555 yes...not his proudest moment. I like it that he seems to take constructive criticism to heart
This breaks my heart! All these people running up against fences other people have created for them to fight against. You each get to personally decide if the fences actually exist. If you discover they don't, run free. This is the pain of waking up!! Each bird that works itself from the 'safety' of its shell has to discover how dangerous the world is - but also how beautiful. Quit playing other people's games! Love and happiness of the Earth unto all who have the ability to discover it!
I love Dans work... It takes him awhile to make his point. I am so glad you added him to your collection I think you should differentiate what value each interview gives... Like a Sam young joe bishop interview vs Dan Vogel Sandra Tanner Jeremy Runnels Mike Norton.
Dan is a deep thinker and wants clarity and specificity. I am that way, so I have to jump to his defnse. :-)
How ironic that the one true church has propagated common belief from 200 years ago that has otherwise disappeared from society through common sense and acceptance of objective data.
Great point. The irony that the One True Church is actually full of False Doctrine.
I think a book should be written about the 101 false doctrines in the church that need to be identified and deconstructed. Might be 1001
Why did the BOM have Native Americans as Jews? Because the idea was all the rage then.
Where did the Christ story come from.. A dying and rising man-god? Because the idea was all the rage then.
The Bible has nothing to do with a Greek mythological dying and rising man god.
Sorry, meant thumbs up. Great comment. Also, Egyptian Osiris, Mithradates, endless neolithic traditions repeat the heroic death and rebirth cycles. These are apart from the original female fertility earliest beliefs that even Neanderthals seem to have invented. Human brain invents religion to explain the inexplicable. Joseph Smith followed at least 50,000 years of human behavior.
Why is it that so many experts and "historians" all come up with different information and conclusions and all believe they are right and have gotten to the bottom of Mormonism. I have been binging on anti Mormon videos like this and others and so funny how it is all so different.
Good job Dan. The Book of Mormon is said to be 'another' testimony of Jesus Christ, however, it is really a testimony of 'another' Jesus because Smith redefined who Jesus is.
Apostle Paul warns of teaching 'another' Jesus (2 Corinthians 11:4), and and goes on to explain in verses 14 and 15; “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
It is very sad that so many have been and are still being deceived by Joseph Smith's fantastic stories and no doubt he was a brilliant man and would have done well writing Harry Potter style fiction.
Jesus built one (1) Church and promised to be with us until the end of the age, so there never was a need to 'restore' His Church.
Although Dan seems to lean toward Catholicism but appears to be uncertain as to who God is, but Dan's work is important in warning others as to how false the mormon church is, so people can seek the truth.
Ezekiel 33: 9 But if you warn the wicked to turn from his way, and he does not turn from his way; he shall die in his iniquity, but you will have saved your life.
Appears to be a smart man, but has a hard time staying on course on the subject at hand.
INFP maybe. I can relate
The question about his finances was unnecessary
John didnt read the cues very well 🤦♂️. Digging into the guys personal life where he clearly politely didnt want to go