Fantastic and carefully considered breakdown, answering a bunch of questions I had but hadn’t even formulated in my mind yet. All delivered in that smooth jazz voice that reassures me that everything is gonna be alright.
Great video Luke. My question I'm (WARNING) 😮 longwindedly leading up to is... Being an old-school song writer/stringed multi instrumentsist./ pro tools user new to ableton. My unorthodox intended work flow with push 3 standalone would be to load a bunch of my drum groove samples ,Omnisphere/ synth samples and original song idea's guitar parts and simply trigger these samples and create some simple sketches.loops ect.And record the "song refinment" live jams with my co writer . Using the push standalone as backing tracks . Allowing us to keep our focus on jamming/ working out / further refining our original song ideas . Wanting to desperately avoid the use or need for a laptop.audio interface and Omnisphere / synth keyboard rig and other best avoidable distractions at our jams . Push 3 standalone seems like a potential perfect fit. after having tried a dozen top off the line standalone looopers,samples,drum machines.with poor results .Ableton standalone seems to be my best/only choice .Would you tend to agree ? Sincere thanks for your opinion, And patience with my longwinded over explained question.
My opinion is that Live on Push 3 is one of the strongest MIDI/Audio looping devices available. Session mode is designed from the ground up for capturing midi and audio loops and "painting" with them in real time with an immediate result. However... (!!!) ...two things: 1) To best leverage the Push Standalone workflow, you have to learn and bend to its' design. It's quite flexible, but not infinitely so. So be prepared to do some things that probably aren't what you're used to. 2) The idea that Push Standalone is a DAWless setup, or that it helps when you want to "desperately avoid the use or need for a laptop/audio interface" is... (at the risk of offending you - please don't be offended) ...silly. Push Standalone *is a laptop / interface / monitor* - it's literally a PC in a fancy enclosure with an interface and hard drive and specialized screen that are quite limited. A Laptop / Interface running Live with a Push 3 Controller is *far more powerful and flexible* than the Push Standalone. Push 3 Standalone is a very powerful tool, but I would be very cautious with your expectations of how you will use it. I would hate for you to be disappointed. :D
I've been working on my own vid review of my Push 3 comparing it to Push 2, and your videos on P3 have been exceedingly helpful in organizing my own thoughts and experiments and comparisons. Very appreciated!
Really, really well said - I couldn't agree more with every point you're making here! (...after several weird hangups, finally got mine authorized and updated yesterday. YAY! Just like you mentioned last time, though - it *for sure* disconnects and has issues transferring files over wi-fi that I could only get going again after full reboot...)
Good point on the need to learn how to play MPE pads. I'd probably go the other way as you did and tone down the MPE stuff rather than crank up its sensitivity. I disagree with you on knobs on tab pages slowing you down compared to a mouse. You have a point that you get a much better overview of the synth parameters on the computer, but adjusting the settings with knobs is infinitely more satisfying. The interface reminds me of the Syntakt, with its eight shared knobs used across various pages like Filter, LFO, etc. The screen clearly shows which page is currently active, so it's actually more or less identical to the Elektron workflow.
I agree that tactile controls are more satisfying, but my experience is that you/we/they will need to understand that the workflow is definitely slower till you get enough practice. :)
@@synthseeker I guess one big difference to the Syntakt is that the Push instruments don't have a unified placement of the parameters. What makes it so quick on the Syntakt isn't just that there are knobs and clearly labeled pages, it's also that every single synth "machine" has the exact same placement of most of those pages. The Filter page will always be on the same button. I'm assuming it's a bit more inconsistent on the Push, which will slow down the learning process.
If you are wanting to buy I'd recommend to wait because there are some bugs. Some might be hardware related like the ribbon getting stuck in the top position. There is a thread about it on the ableton forums. Happens to me every few days.
Thank you for this well thought through feedback. The reflections on MPE are very much to the point. The push 3 doesn’t just play like a new instrument, but like a multitude of instruments depending on how you configure the MPE. Every one of those will need a lot of practice to get to a level when you can actually exploit the MPE expressive power. The question is whether you really want to invest in that. It’s not a surprise that the Seaboard never became a success… The limitations of the standalone in terms of access to features and in particular the lack of ability to arrange are more worrying. Contrast that with the Maschine+ vs Maschine Mk3, where the “only” (but nevertheless important) limitation is the lack of standard VSTs and the CPU power while the full Maschine DAW (yes it is a DAW, although perhaps not the best) is available including arrangement. There is even the possibility to plug in a mixer or audio interface for multitrack recording. And it’s half the price of a Push 3. Ableton has invested a massive marketing effort in the launch, but now that the hype is over, the emperor’s new clothes seem a bit lacking.
I suppose you could look at it that way, I’m really not trying to decide between a push and something like the tools that native instruments sells. And I don’t think there was a massive marketing push on Ableton‘s part certainly no more than their usual. Like I said, the push is simply the best world class control surface for using Ableton Live. If Ableton live is not core to your workflow it doesn’t make any sense to purchase a push. The Push and Ableton are a platform into which you may invest much like the native instrument, tools and software, or the MPC universe. Tools are tools. As a music maker, we live in the greatest time with the greatest tools. I look forward to what the future brings. For now I’ve invested in the Ableton platform.
I don't own a Push or use Ableton, but I have been in DAWless jams with one. It is a quite a capable device. Miles and miles better than a Circuit Tracks (which is resembles). It is not cheap, but its price is at the lower end of a marquee synth workstation. Really, it's a platform with a lot of potential.
You name it: "with a lot of potential" It's up to Ableton to realize the potential (quickly!) or end up with a banana product that extremely disappoints many loyal users.
Well, the Circuit tracks costs a few hundred euros only and it is in fact seriously overpriced when compared to Elektron or Roland equivalents so of course the Push3 beats it easily. A better comparison would be with a Maschine+ or Akai Force. Both those devices are half the price of a standalone Push 3 and have massively more functionality and much better I/O. Unless you are absolutely committed to the Ableton world , the Push3 is just a dreadful disappointment.
It's been interesting watching people play the Osmose. As both a guitarist and synthesist, it's the control surface I've been waiting decades for. But watching people with only traditional keyboard skills use it has been... usually painful. It's almost as if the more skill you have at traditional keyboard the more ham fisted you come off when playing an Osmose. It's been super easy and wonderful for me, but I've been approaching it as a guitarist, and finally getting micro bends and expression per key is a dream. I imagine the new Push is going to be as consternating and surprising to a totally different crowd but for similar reasons.
Regarding the over sensitivity of the mpe pads Can the sensitivity just be set to minamal to make staying in pitch easy .and not inadvertently ending up with unwanted overly expressive note phrasing
I played this video at 2x speed. Very clear delivery. This actually made me more excited about the standalone... I plan on using this with the Linnstrument. P.S. I love Diablo on the Steam Deck!!!!!
I agree with your view that these new control interfaces like the MPE requires a learning curve similar to learning to bow the violin, not simply pushing buttons on an electronic device. In a similar vein, the Otamatone is not an easy instrument to play if you want to play with precise intonation... itcan be done, but with much practice.
Thanks for your feedback. I bought the Push 3 without the standalone capability. Nice upgrade from Push 1. The Dirtywave M8 is my favourite music tool for couch usage.
@synthseeker Yes, takes me back to when I first started to make music. I think people are generally being a bit harsh when it comes to it's ease of use. It's really not that hard to get started. It is my one hardware tool that I feel I can recommend to most people.
I think there’s a lot of people interested in the Push 3 that never used a Push before. They’re comparing it to a MPC and are assuming that you could make a full song on it. The Push has never been that and I doubt that a standalone Push will ever become Live in a box. The Push is about session view. It’s for recording or sequencing clips and building scenes. Using clips and scenes to build and perform live sets. It’s also possible to record your clip and scene into the arranger by jamming out on the Push, but that’s as far as it goes into arranging a full song.
Awesome review - thanks! I agree completely about intended use (vs. the limitations compared to Live running on a computer). That's why I bought the controller version only & I'm looking forward how the Push 3 and Live will develop.
I think standalone mode is a huge thing. Easily the biggest fun factor in a product, and with these boundaries plus with MPE capability, it forces you towards BETTER MELODIES AND HARMONIES instead of trying to make it working with the usual, crappy cheap 2 osc voices modulated and effect chained up to be at least less repetitive... If you're an artist, you'll benefit from it with increased practice time, with true joy, and you'll have the very opportunity to jump up your game in terms of music: melodies and harmonies. Of course, most likely it will take sliced stuff a bit further with XY pads, but it unquestionably has that effect on masses to turn themselves a little bit more involved in music itself, trying to talk in feelings, throwing more and more goosebumps, leaving you in another dimension at the end of a track.
@@synthseeker Being really good on any instrument, including the MPE ones, is the winning strategy to be the best possible version of yourself as a producer, too.
Sounds from your description like a groovebox on steroids. At least, that’s how I like to use them (performance, sketching, and mobile production). BTW, I have to thank you for helping me to buy a Push 2. Your videos provided me with proof of its value to my workflow.
Excellent video. Instructional and realistic. Indeed, I think that the standalone version is dedicated to performance without computer and not sound design or creation.
The standalone feature is only useful for live use. You prep your sets and play without a laptop on stage if stability allows. Buy a MacBook Air M1 with a Push 1 for most power and best value
This is very aligned with my experience, although I wasn’t brave enough to take it to my live performance last night , and turned back to the computer. After staying up til 4am creating a 'P3S' friendly version of my live set (removing VSTs) , I did a couple of tries 'performing' ', and there was just too many little things that didn't give me the confidence to use it (couple of MPE notes get digitally stuck, I went in a loop trying to power off, but it kept asking me to save live set, etc) so I would say, for me, it's a great jam machine, but I doubt it can handle any professional's live performance with confidence
It all depends on your tolerance to risk and performance needs. Lots of repeated rehearsal should help with understanding it’s behavior, and time will improve it.
The MPE is similar to the Linnstrument, which I have. Push is good but the Linnstrument feels better to play. I would describe it as faster, like when a guitarist says that a certain guitar has a fast neck. The Y axis is easier to control on the Push.
I don’t completely agree that the Linnstrument feels better to me, but people like different things. Depend on the size you have, it certainly has a larger range…but that’s a different video.. :)
As an owner of other “ableton-in-a-box” machines (deluge, mpc) this is obviously the closest thing to it and I think it’s just flat impressive as hell that they got pretty much all the meat and potatoes of Live on a standalone while providing 1 for 1 cross compatibility with the desktop software. Until some massive quantum leap in tech, won’t CPUs running desktop DAWs ALWAYS out power DAWless? So right there I don’t see it as a valid criticism or rational disappointment. Another (personal to me) nonconcern is the learning curve of MPE; it’s lit a fire under my ass to strive to be an expert on an instrument, and for once I’m excited about the process
can you describe your setup when you were jamming with your friends? did you plug into a PA system or amp? any infomation (or even a video!) showing how this was would be awesome!
I expect we’ll make some noise in a week or so. I’ll document it then. The high level view is I was using the push, sending midi clock out and audio out. His synths used my clock and we all fed into a small mixer. From the mixer we fed a handheld recorder and a four port headphone amp. We used headphones. :)
I think the Push makes more sense when you compare it to other grooveboxes like Maschine+, MPC, Elektron, etc. Because the 27 inch screen of my computer always is going to win.
Awesome vid! Recent subscriber and glad I found you. Thoughts on this scenario… I finish all music in Ableton and do have an Akai Force. I’m a keyboard player and prefer keys for everything. Looking to replace the force and use the Push 3 instead. Don’t care too much about stand-alone. Any reason to do the Push 3 controller vs Push 2? Thanks again!!
The lack of a keyboard styled "groovebox" is the main reason i havent moved on from the Yamaha RS7000.. i dont understand this infatuation to just give a lot of pads on a square.. everyone's doin it.. the mpc's 16 pads is one thing.. but 64?.. gimme a 2and1/2 octave kb (16 white keys) with all the functions of the new machines, and u might have me.. Yamaha has seemed to decide they will never make a new RS, so im stuck still searchin.. the menu pages will also turn me off, since the RS has a lot of knobs for instant results, but had the Push been styled like a mini kb, i wouldve given it a chance.. 😑
Thank you for this video. It’s a tough call, wether to buy Push 3 right now or to wait a while… and this video is very helpful for me. Regarding the limitations, do you know if scene follow actions work in standalone operation?
Really really good summation on where the Push 3 is at right now. I think they will continue to improve it with firmware updates. I agree, that this was 'pushed' out too soon. It could have been a lot more, but still has some great potential. My biggest issue is that my workflow is not normally in session view, but arrangement view. I mean, I've used both, but typically only work out some quick details in session and then I like to start working on arrangement. I guess this is why the Maschine never really fit me very well, as it has a similar session view sort of setup. I currently have a NI MIDI KB and a Nectar Aura (Aruba), because I mainly need pads for drums and working out what I want and it fits the bill well (and cheap). Thanks for doing this! Curious how functional the Push 3 is in controller mode with arrangement view? Thoughts? How are you liking D4?
Push 3 in controller mode is basically a very nice evolution of the push. In controller mode you have access to everything in Ableton desktop, so basically you get everything but lose standalone function. I’m using it that way fairly often and I’m fine. D4 is good. I’m a very slow completionist.
great video, always good to see what I guess I'd call 'measured critisism'. I've never really understood the standalone groove box idea whatsoever to be honest. each to their own but I just don't know how when in the middle of a good idea you can persist with the clunky dials and menus and turning that they all have when you've probably got a computer right in front of you that you could do it on in 5 seconds. I get playing on the pads is fun, I've got four of them for heavens sake, but I almost never use them or the actual 'producing' of a track other than playing stuff in which is always nice to do and handy. I often hear it coming from the generation that would have never not had computers which is interesting. I first learned to sequence on my dear old mums ensoniq SD-1 (Ive still got it actually) and I'll tell you this for nothing, it was bloody awful! frustrating, repetitive, the buttons would stick, very limited undo's and so much more. I recall when we got our first lap top and a friend came over and installed cool edit pro for us to use and introduced us to the world of plugins and midi editing on a screen much bigger than a calculator. I knew as soon as I made my first track, "this is the way to do it" and I still think about that to this day. I'm always greatful for what the computer does for me because without it I find creativity gets lost in hidden menus, late nights and in the back of 400 page instruction manuals.
bought this hoping to do sound design. woops. it may go back. i can relaly feel that its a hardware contorller manipulating software underneath - not in a good way. the scrolling seems justtt a tad behind. i ran into quite a few significant bugs tonight too. i love ableton but yeesh to go portable im more looking at a macbook after session 1.
I’ve seen a lot of people talking about updates that would be great and “for now it can’t blank” on every video. Has the push 3 actually gotten any firmware updates?? I’ve heard nothing.
When Ableton Live updates itself it installs updates to Push if connected and available and if you use Push Standalone it does the same. Additionally the option to update Push Standalone to Live 12 came out yesterday. It was announced with instructions in the Ableton Newsletter. :)
@@synthseeker Thank you for replying! I saw that particular update.. I’m new to the ableton ecosystem and I don’t own a push! Did they add anything like the ability to copy/paste? Anything like that? I know they haven’t done big things like add a arrangement view but I was hoping to see little improvements
@@synthseeker also wondering if it has gotten any better at sound design/arrangement/ meta functions.. these are things a lot of TH-cam reviewers talk about how the push 3 isn’t there yet, and its coming up on a year since it launched.. have any improvements become available for it?
The question I wanted to ask is does the push 3 have a controller only? Another question, can it be used with Logic Pro x and pro tools? I know it’s made for Abelton I just wanted to know did it work as a control surface with other DAW’s or ONLY with Abelton? If it does work with other DAW’s does it do the simple functions of play record that you can program drums to certain pads?
It’s designed to be targeted to Ableton Live however you can get it to work with other daws like bitwig, but it takes some software hacks/plugins. I do not recommend the push for non-Ableton. If you want a good grid controller that does serve as a decent controller for any daw, check out the Launchpad pro mk3 from Novation!
I have only had one crash, but I’m mostly using it for jamming and composing from blank slates. I suspect people are loading old sets into it and finding real bugs or bugs related to third party max devices. Some max devices are unhappy right now. It’s best to just go with stock plugins till things settle.
First class review of this complex and very expensive product. Very many relevant details are discussed. The video goes into depth and actually Ableton itself should have released such a video BEFORE the launch. Ableton should buy it from you! ;-)
Not really. I’m not monetized. You can give $1 a month to patreon and join our discord community but I’d only recommend doing that if you want to hang out with a bunch of middle-aged men who collect synthesizers. ;)
Not at this time. I tried last night with both .mid and .alc clips and can’t figure out how to see them in the push’s browser. Maybe one day? For now you’ll have to do it on the laptop and then save that set to the push to use them.
I love it, but I hate it that it keeps on hanging on so many occasions and even connected to Live 11 my laptop starts hanging as well. I'm not sure why so many reviews are neglecting that this happens as I can definitely not be the only one that has this quite often. 2000 bucks for the standalone with a crap battery and often hanging or crashing is to painful that I had to send it back. So wonderful device, but so many flaws that I'm not going to wait for it to get it improved. One big drawback of the device, if it works, the number of plugins and mainly the instruments. Not a lot of stuff to choose from, especially not if you're used to the Akai Force which is in the direction of this, but those instruments are a huge plus against this Push 3. If the Akai would bring out a Force II and have these kinds of MPE pads and a even better MIDI integration (as the Push 3 standalone has none, need a laptop for it), then Akai wins big time. The future will tell us which company will go into the right and fully right direction without flaws and offering the stuff we all need :)
@@synthseeker not even 2 weeks... First crash after 30mins and it often hangs , for example when playing a track and loading an MPE instrument, that happend multiple times.
@@synthseeker actually almost nothing , even with just a few tracks it hangs fast. I also connected my hydrasynth via usb, worked 3 mins and bam crash. Guess it's hardware but not confident so I'll wait for the storm to calm down and see if then I want a new one or maybe Akai fights back with an awesome MPE device.
I think it depends on which workflow you are using. It supports several different workflows, depending on whether you want to perform or jam or compose. As far as the browsing behavior, yeah, it definitely needs work. ;)
"A certain amount of Diablo IV"... if only the game was compatible with the Push 3! All the self-proclaimed influencers can s*ck on this video for a while, honest and nicely spoken Luke! I am very happy with my controller Push 3.
First informed and realistic representation I’ve seen of the push on TH-cam. I gave the standalone a go. And it is going back. I’ll go so far as to say that it is just a beta product. Rushed isn’t even accurate here. Even just having included a way to map the standard LFO, would have been somewhat of an indication they were ready for release. It took M4L people a couple of days to get this implemented… shameful
The solutions for mapping I've seen so far aren't great either...but I wouldn't say "shameful"...but I agree it is not a great launch as far as setting expectation (hence this video.) Hope you find a way forward with whatever your tool ends up being. Thanks for sharing! :)
Synth Seeker - Interesting remarks. I must say, it's on the user to develop the muscle memory to learn MPE. "You're going to learn to play an instrument." Agree. Ableton's marketing lit. says you can dial back the MPE sensitivity however. That said, I'm not buying P-3 (I own a Push, so no beef with the broad concept.). P-3 was ready to ship in '21 so I don't know a. how long it should have been held back b. Why it was released in such a clunky state. To wax politically incorrect, your statement that folks will have to learn to use difficult synths is absolutely true. Most Live users probably play synths on a Qwerty keyboard. People with some aptitude to play keyboard are the ones that can use The Force or P-3 (even in a primitive state) most comfortably and in turn will get the most from it. Best regards P.S. You can turn down the sensitivity that annoyed you. Go to video "Stimming Reviews Ableton Push 3 Standalone. At or slightly before 33:39, he lays out exactly how you gain complete control over sensitivity. Good luck with P-3.
I have the standalone version i think it's useless. Too much limitations. Basically what you can't do with a push 2 by itself when it's plugged to computers you can't do it in standalone. And it's a lot. Standalone is not finished product. It's a pity.
@@synthseeker well my needs are quite basic: be able to copy paste multiple notes in midi clip edit mode= impossible (really?) Set an lfo destination = impossible (no way?!?) Manage groove pool = impossible Manage clip follow behavior = impossible Manage max for live basic sequencers = impossible Manage chains = impossible Manage mpe destinations = impossible You can do really the basic basic stuff... Impossible to compose on the sofa 😜
It’ll just take time. Use controller mode, prep your set, perform without the computer if it makes sense. “Impossible” is just right now, not forever. I can understand your disappointment though.
Push 3 is making me think about selling my laptop and buying another one, slim and silent. Push 3 is a joke, a step backwards today. No arranger, same screen as push 2...and expensive, with no license included... they rushed out the thing
I understand your feelings. Have fun with your new laptop! I disagree that it’s a joke because it’s quite capable for the things it’s meant to do, but the limitations are real and some people may not have a place where it will fit in its current configuration.
Fantastic and carefully considered breakdown, answering a bunch of questions I had but hadn’t even formulated in my mind yet. All delivered in that smooth jazz voice that reassures me that everything is gonna be alright.
Next up on WKAB: midnight love songs for AI composers…stay tuned…
Great video Luke. My question I'm (WARNING) 😮 longwindedly leading up to is... Being an old-school song writer/stringed multi instrumentsist./ pro tools user new to ableton. My unorthodox intended work flow with push 3 standalone would be to load a bunch of my drum groove samples ,Omnisphere/ synth samples and original song idea's guitar parts and simply trigger these samples and create some simple sketches.loops ect.And record the "song refinment" live jams with my co writer . Using the push standalone as backing tracks . Allowing us to keep our focus on jamming/ working out / further refining our original song ideas . Wanting to desperately avoid the use or need for a laptop.audio interface and Omnisphere / synth keyboard rig and other best avoidable distractions at our jams . Push 3 standalone seems like a potential perfect fit. after having tried a dozen top off the line standalone looopers,samples,drum machines.with poor results .Ableton standalone seems to be my best/only choice .Would you tend to agree ? Sincere thanks for your opinion, And patience with my longwinded over explained question.
My opinion is that Live on Push 3 is one of the strongest MIDI/Audio looping devices available. Session mode is designed from the ground up for capturing midi and audio loops and "painting" with them in real time with an immediate result. However... (!!!) ...two things:
1) To best leverage the Push Standalone workflow, you have to learn and bend to its' design. It's quite flexible, but not infinitely so. So be prepared to do some things that probably aren't what you're used to.
2) The idea that Push Standalone is a DAWless setup, or that it helps when you want to "desperately avoid the use or need for a laptop/audio interface" is... (at the risk of offending you - please don't be offended) ...silly. Push Standalone *is a laptop / interface / monitor* - it's literally a PC in a fancy enclosure with an interface and hard drive and specialized screen that are quite limited. A Laptop / Interface running Live with a Push 3 Controller is *far more powerful and flexible* than the Push Standalone.
Push 3 Standalone is a very powerful tool, but I would be very cautious with your expectations of how you will use it. I would hate for you to be disappointed. :D
I've been working on my own vid review of my Push 3 comparing it to Push 2, and your videos on P3 have been exceedingly helpful in organizing my own thoughts and experiments and comparisons.
Very appreciated!
Excellent! I’ll have to watch yours. :)
Really, really well said - I couldn't agree more with every point you're making here! (...after several weird hangups, finally got mine authorized and updated yesterday. YAY! Just like you mentioned last time, though - it *for sure* disconnects and has issues transferring files over wi-fi that I could only get going again after full reboot...)
Yeah, I hope they fix that. It’s really annoying.
Good point on the need to learn how to play MPE pads. I'd probably go the other way as you did and tone down the MPE stuff rather than crank up its sensitivity.
I disagree with you on knobs on tab pages slowing you down compared to a mouse. You have a point that you get a much better overview of the synth parameters on the computer, but adjusting the settings with knobs is infinitely more satisfying. The interface reminds me of the Syntakt, with its eight shared knobs used across various pages like Filter, LFO, etc. The screen clearly shows which page is currently active, so it's actually more or less identical to the Elektron workflow.
I agree that tactile controls are more satisfying, but my experience is that you/we/they will need to understand that the workflow is definitely slower till you get enough practice. :)
@@synthseeker I guess one big difference to the Syntakt is that the Push instruments don't have a unified placement of the parameters. What makes it so quick on the Syntakt isn't just that there are knobs and clearly labeled pages, it's also that every single synth "machine" has the exact same placement of most of those pages. The Filter page will always be on the same button. I'm assuming it's a bit more inconsistent on the Push, which will slow down the learning process.
If you are wanting to buy I'd recommend to wait because there are some bugs. Some might be hardware related like the ribbon getting stuck in the top position. There is a thread about it on the ableton forums. Happens to me every few days.
Me? I'm already bought in. :) But I haven't had issues with the ribbon.
@Synth Seeker just warning others. Hopefully it's a software issue Support wasn't very helpful. Lots of people with the prob.
Thank you for this well thought through feedback.
The reflections on MPE are very much to the point. The push 3 doesn’t just play like a new instrument, but like a multitude of instruments depending on how you configure the MPE. Every one of those will need a lot of practice to get to a level when you can actually exploit the MPE expressive power.
The question is whether you really want to invest in that. It’s not a surprise that the Seaboard never became a success…
The limitations of the standalone in terms of access to features and in particular the lack of ability to arrange are more worrying.
Contrast that with the Maschine+ vs Maschine Mk3, where the “only” (but nevertheless important) limitation is the lack of standard VSTs and the CPU power while the full Maschine DAW (yes it is a DAW, although perhaps not the best) is available including arrangement. There is even the possibility to plug in a mixer or audio interface for multitrack recording.
And it’s half the price of a Push 3.
Ableton has invested a massive marketing effort in the launch, but now that the hype is over, the emperor’s new clothes seem a bit lacking.
I suppose you could look at it that way, I’m really not trying to decide between a push and something like the tools that native instruments sells. And I don’t think there was a massive marketing push on Ableton‘s part certainly no more than their usual.
Like I said, the push is simply the best world class control surface for using Ableton Live. If Ableton live is not core to your workflow it doesn’t make any sense to purchase a push.
The Push and Ableton are a platform into which you may invest much like the native instrument, tools and software, or the MPC universe. Tools are tools. As a music maker, we live in the greatest time with the greatest tools. I look forward to what the future brings. For now I’ve invested in the Ableton platform.
Respect for the wise knowledge you are pushing out.
I see what you did there. “…pushing out…”
Push 3 controller is awesome! If you want something standalone just get a MPC.
MPCs are awesome too. :)
I don't own a Push or use Ableton, but I have been in DAWless jams with one. It is a quite a capable device. Miles and miles better than a Circuit Tracks (which is resembles). It is not cheap, but its price is at the lower end of a marquee synth workstation. Really, it's a platform with a lot of potential.
You name it: "with a lot of potential"
It's up to Ableton to realize the potential (quickly!) or end up with a banana product that extremely disappoints many loyal users.
We be jammjn’!
Well, the Circuit tracks costs a few hundred euros only and it is in fact seriously overpriced when compared to Elektron or Roland equivalents so of course the Push3 beats it easily.
A better comparison would be with a Maschine+ or Akai Force. Both those devices are half the price of a standalone Push 3 and have massively more functionality and much better I/O. Unless you are absolutely committed to the Ableton world , the Push3 is just a dreadful disappointment.
Disappointment to whom? Not Ableton users. I don’t think so at least. Time will tell.
@@hvhvgitaar I'm afraid that you are right.
It's been interesting watching people play the Osmose. As both a guitarist and synthesist, it's the control surface I've been waiting decades for. But watching people with only traditional keyboard skills use it has been... usually painful. It's almost as if the more skill you have at traditional keyboard the more ham fisted you come off when playing an Osmose. It's been super easy and wonderful for me, but I've been approaching it as a guitarist, and finally getting micro bends and expression per key is a dream. I imagine the new Push is going to be as consternating and surprising to a totally different crowd but for similar reasons.
Agreed. I’m certainly starting to see the challenge, and I consider myself an above average grid-player. :)
I appreciate the detail discussion of how MPE feels while playing!
You of all people I thought knew it already!
@@synthseeker 🤷♂
Regarding the over sensitivity of the mpe pads Can the sensitivity just be set to minamal to make staying in pitch easy .and not inadvertently ending up with unwanted overly expressive note phrasing
You can influence the pad sensitivity and adjust the MPE areas/behavior and there are devices for altering the curve/responses in Live .
I played this video at 2x speed. Very clear delivery. This actually made me more excited about the standalone... I plan on using this with the Linnstrument. P.S. I love Diablo on the Steam Deck!!!!!
Lol…yeah I can be slow. You aren’t the first to mention the playback speed.
@@synthseeker I would not say you're slow. You have magnificent pacing. Best video I've EVER watched at 2x speed.
Lol
I agree with your view that these new control interfaces like the MPE requires a learning curve similar to learning to bow the violin, not simply pushing buttons on an electronic device. In a similar vein, the Otamatone is not an easy instrument to play if you want to play with precise intonation... itcan be done, but with much practice.
It’s all just time and effort.
Thanks for your feedback. I bought the Push 3 without the standalone capability. Nice upgrade from Push 1. The Dirtywave M8 is my favourite music tool for couch usage.
Trackers for the win!
@synthseeker Yes, takes me back to when I first started to make music. I think people are generally being a bit harsh when it comes to it's ease of use. It's really not that hard to get started. It is my one hardware tool that I feel I can recommend to most people.
I did a lot of mod writing on the Amigas back in the 90’s.
I think there’s a lot of people interested in the Push 3 that never used a Push before. They’re comparing it to a MPC and are assuming that you could make a full song on it. The Push has never been that and I doubt that a standalone Push will ever become Live in a box. The Push is about session view. It’s for recording or sequencing clips and building scenes. Using clips and scenes to build and perform live sets. It’s also possible to record your clip and scene into the arranger by jamming out on the Push, but that’s as far as it goes into arranging a full song.
Agreed, but we’ll see what comes next from the mothership.
Maybe more in the future ableton will put that
A must view for anyone looking to buy this🙌🏻🙌🏻 bravo!!
Come on Ableton! Sponsor me sponsor me! Lol! Thanks buddy.
Excellent review! I suspected much of this. I appreciate your honesty. A lot the influencers Ableton hired seemed disingenuous in their reviews.
I suspect many reviewers are not deep Ableton Live people, or perhaps just focused on performances.
Awesome review - thanks! I agree completely about intended use (vs. the limitations compared to Live running on a computer). That's why I bought the controller version only & I'm looking forward how the Push 3 and Live will develop.
Have fun with it! I’m really enjoying exploring the MPE control.
I think standalone mode is a huge thing. Easily the biggest fun factor in a product, and with these boundaries plus with MPE capability, it forces you towards BETTER MELODIES AND HARMONIES instead of trying to make it working with the usual, crappy cheap 2 osc voices modulated and effect chained up to be at least less repetitive... If you're an artist, you'll benefit from it with increased practice time, with true joy, and you'll have the very opportunity to jump up your game in terms of music: melodies and harmonies. Of course, most likely it will take sliced stuff a bit further with XY pads, but it unquestionably has that effect on masses to turn themselves a little bit more involved in music itself, trying to talk in feelings, throwing more and more goosebumps, leaving you in another dimension at the end of a track.
Agreed. I’m definitely more about the playing than the production. ;)
@@synthseeker Being really good on any instrument, including the MPE ones, is the winning strategy to be the best possible version of yourself as a producer, too.
Sounds from your description like a groovebox on steroids. At least, that’s how I like to use them (performance, sketching, and mobile production). BTW, I have to thank you for helping me to buy a Push 2. Your videos provided me with proof of its value to my workflow.
Glad you found a path forward!
Excellent video. Instructional and realistic. Indeed, I think that the standalone version is dedicated to performance without computer and not sound design or creation.
I hope it evolves but there are significant hurdles to clear. Thanks for watching!
The standalone feature is only useful for live use. You prep your sets and play without a laptop on stage if stability allows.
Buy a MacBook Air M1 with a Push 1 for most power and best value
I’d opt for the Push 2 over the Push 1 but the value is there I agree.
This is very aligned with my experience, although I wasn’t brave enough to take it to my live performance last night , and turned back to the computer. After staying up til 4am creating a 'P3S' friendly version of my live set (removing VSTs) , I did a couple of tries 'performing' ', and there was just too many little things that didn't give me the confidence to use it (couple of MPE notes get digitally stuck, I went in a loop trying to power off, but it kept asking me to save live set, etc) so I would say, for me, it's a great jam machine, but I doubt it can handle any professional's live performance with confidence
It all depends on your tolerance to risk and performance needs. Lots of repeated rehearsal should help with understanding it’s behavior, and time will improve it.
@@synthseeker sure. But when playing and note and it gets (digitally) stuck, then it's a no go for me.
Ouch. I haven’t had that happen yet. I feel for you.
The MPE is similar to the Linnstrument, which I have. Push is good but the Linnstrument feels better to play. I would describe it as faster, like when a guitarist says that a certain guitar has a fast neck. The Y axis is easier to control on the Push.
I don’t completely agree that the Linnstrument feels better to me, but people like different things. Depend on the size you have, it certainly has a larger range…but that’s a different video.. :)
@@synthseeker What I mean is the board has less friction than the Push 3, so it plays more like a guitar.
Thanks! Very informative. I'll stay away from this until they add arrangement and such. Just got the MPC One + so I'll be fine 🙂
Carry on with your music!
Great honest review of the the device at it is in June 2023. 👏👏👏👏
Thanks for the timestamp!
Very good points about necessity of proper MPE settings.
I’m still tweaking mine…
Excellent breakdown, Luke! There was a lot was not aware of!
I only scratch the surface, but I wanted to try and set some expectations.
As an owner of other “ableton-in-a-box” machines (deluge, mpc) this is obviously the closest thing to it and I think it’s just flat impressive as hell that they got pretty much all the meat and potatoes of Live on a standalone while providing 1 for 1 cross compatibility with the desktop software. Until some massive quantum leap in tech, won’t CPUs running desktop DAWs ALWAYS out power DAWless? So right there I don’t see it as a valid criticism or rational disappointment. Another (personal to me) nonconcern is the learning curve of MPE; it’s lit a fire under my ass to strive to be an expert on an instrument, and for once I’m excited about the process
I look forward to hearing how you do. Be sure to share anything you make when it’s out!
can you describe your setup when you were jamming with your friends? did you plug into a PA system or amp? any infomation (or even a video!) showing how this was would be awesome!
I expect we’ll make some noise in a week or so. I’ll document it then. The high level view is I was using the push, sending midi clock out and audio out. His synths used my clock and we all fed into a small mixer. From the mixer we fed a handheld recorder and a four port headphone amp. We used headphones. :)
Another great vid. Loving your content. Enjoyed the D4 comment as well.
Thanks Will. :)
I think the Push makes more sense when you compare it to other grooveboxes like Maschine+, MPC, Elektron, etc. Because the 27 inch screen of my computer always is going to win.
Or you can just evaluate it in the context it was designed and buy all the devices. ;)
Awesome vid! Recent subscriber and glad I found you. Thoughts on this scenario… I finish all music in Ableton and do have an Akai Force. I’m a keyboard player and prefer keys for everything. Looking to replace the force and use the Push 3 instead. Don’t care too much about stand-alone. Any reason to do the Push 3 controller vs Push 2? Thanks again!!
Push 3 controller supports MPE, audio I/O and USB hosting…but you can also get a used Push 2 for less than $400…so it ‘s up to you.
@@synthseeker all good points! It’s wild how many Push 2 controllers are available out there these days ;) Thanks!
The lack of a keyboard styled "groovebox" is the main reason i havent moved on from the Yamaha RS7000.. i dont understand this infatuation to just give a lot of pads on a square.. everyone's doin it.. the mpc's 16 pads is one thing.. but 64?.. gimme a 2and1/2 octave kb (16 white keys) with all the functions of the new machines, and u might have me.. Yamaha has seemed to decide they will never make a new RS, so im stuck still searchin.. the menu pages will also turn me off, since the RS has a lot of knobs for instant results, but had the Push been styled like a mini kb, i wouldve given it a chance.. 😑
Well you can certainly use a knobbly keyboard-based control surface if that fits you usage better.
Thank you for this video. It’s a tough call, wether to buy Push 3 right now or to wait a while… and this video is very helpful for me.
Regarding the limitations, do you know if scene follow actions work in standalone operation?
They work but you cannot see or edit them in standalone mode.
Really really good summation on where the Push 3 is at right now. I think they will continue to improve it with firmware updates. I agree, that this was 'pushed' out too soon. It could have been a lot more, but still has some great potential. My biggest issue is that my workflow is not normally in session view, but arrangement view. I mean, I've used both, but typically only work out some quick details in session and then I like to start working on arrangement. I guess this is why the Maschine never really fit me very well, as it has a similar session view sort of setup. I currently have a NI MIDI KB and a Nectar Aura (Aruba), because I mainly need pads for drums and working out what I want and it fits the bill well (and cheap). Thanks for doing this! Curious how functional the Push 3 is in controller mode with arrangement view? Thoughts? How are you liking D4?
Push 3 in controller mode is basically a very nice evolution of the push. In controller mode you have access to everything in Ableton desktop, so basically you get everything but lose standalone function. I’m using it that way fairly often and I’m fine.
D4 is good. I’m a very slow completionist.
great video, always good to see what I guess I'd call 'measured critisism'. I've never really understood the standalone groove box idea whatsoever to be honest. each to their own but I just don't know how when in the middle of a good idea you can persist with the clunky dials and menus and turning that they all have when you've probably got a computer right in front of you that you could do it on in 5 seconds. I get playing on the pads is fun, I've got four of them for heavens sake, but I almost never use them or the actual 'producing' of a track other than playing stuff in which is always nice to do and handy.
I often hear it coming from the generation that would have never not had computers which is interesting. I first learned to sequence on my dear old mums ensoniq SD-1 (Ive still got it actually) and I'll tell you this for nothing, it was bloody awful! frustrating, repetitive, the buttons would stick, very limited undo's and so much more. I recall when we got our first lap top and a friend came over and installed cool edit pro for us to use and introduced us to the world of plugins and midi editing on a screen much bigger than a calculator. I knew as soon as I made my first track, "this is the way to do it" and I still think about that to this day. I'm always greatful for what the computer does for me because without it I find creativity gets lost in hidden menus, late nights and in the back of 400 page instruction manuals.
Thanks for sharing!
Good matter of fact discussion!
Thanks!
bought this hoping to do sound design. woops. it may go back.
i can relaly feel that its a hardware contorller manipulating software underneath - not in a good way. the scrolling seems justtt a tad behind. i ran into quite a few significant bugs tonight too. i love ableton but yeesh to go portable im more looking at a macbook after session 1.
I can understand. Good luck!
Yes
Affirmative?
I’ve seen a lot of people talking about updates that would be great and “for now it can’t blank” on every video. Has the push 3 actually gotten any firmware updates?? I’ve heard nothing.
When Ableton Live updates itself it installs updates to Push if connected and available and if you use Push Standalone it does the same. Additionally the option to update Push Standalone to Live 12 came out yesterday. It was announced with instructions in the Ableton Newsletter. :)
@@synthseeker Thank you for replying! I saw that particular update.. I’m new to the ableton ecosystem and I don’t own a push! Did they add anything like the ability to copy/paste? Anything like that? I know they haven’t done big things like add a arrangement view but I was hoping to see little improvements
@@synthseeker also wondering if it has gotten any better at sound design/arrangement/ meta functions.. these are things a lot of TH-cam reviewers talk about how the push 3 isn’t there yet, and its coming up on a year since it launched.. have any improvements become available for it?
I still have to update it but I’ll let you know!
@@synthseeker that would be incredible friend! Thank you, I can’t seem to find the info on the forums
The question I wanted to ask is does the push 3 have a controller only? Another question, can it be used with Logic Pro x and pro tools? I know it’s made for
Abelton I just wanted to know did it work as a control surface with other DAW’s or ONLY with Abelton? If it does work with other DAW’s does it do the simple functions of play record that you can program drums to certain pads?
It’s designed to be targeted to Ableton Live however you can get it to work with other daws like bitwig, but it takes some software hacks/plugins. I do not recommend the push for non-Ableton. If you want a good grid controller that does serve as a decent controller for any daw, check out the Launchpad pro mk3 from Novation!
@@synthseeker thanks
Thank you - very valuable info! I have read a lot of frustration on fora about bugs and bugs and bugs. Whats your experience in this regard?
I have only had one crash, but I’m mostly using it for jamming and composing from blank slates. I suspect people are loading old sets into it and finding real bugs or bugs related to third party max devices.
Some max devices are unhappy right now. It’s best to just go with stock plugins till things settle.
@@synthseeker Makes sense, thanks again for your time!
First class review of this complex and very expensive product. Very many relevant details are discussed. The video goes into depth and actually Ableton itself should have released such a video BEFORE the launch. Ableton should buy it from you! ;-)
Lol thanks but I doubt that they will.
@@synthseeker No Patreon or Super Thanks available here?
Not really. I’m not monetized. You can give $1 a month to patreon and join our discord community but I’d only recommend doing that if you want to hang out with a bunch of middle-aged men who collect synthesizers. ;)
@@synthseeker Then I'm in exactly the right company. ;-)
But I didn't find any reference to Patreon in the bio.
I hide it in the description of the videos. ;)
What about if you don’t use abelton?
I don’t understand the question?
Thank you! I can't find this info anywhere, but can you load Midi files using the controller?
Not at this time. I tried last night with both .mid and .alc clips and can’t figure out how to see them in the push’s browser. Maybe one day? For now you’ll have to do it on the laptop and then save that set to the push to use them.
I love it, but I hate it that it keeps on hanging on so many occasions and even connected to Live 11 my laptop starts hanging as well. I'm not sure why so many reviews are neglecting that this happens as I can definitely not be the only one that has this quite often. 2000 bucks for the standalone with a crap battery and often hanging or crashing is to painful that I had to send it back. So wonderful device, but so many flaws that I'm not going to wait for it to get it improved.
One big drawback of the device, if it works, the number of plugins and mainly the instruments. Not a lot of stuff to choose from, especially not if you're used to the Akai Force which is in the direction of this, but those instruments are a huge plus against this Push 3. If the Akai would bring out a Force II and have these kinds of MPE pads and a even better MIDI integration (as the Push 3 standalone has none, need a laptop for it), then Akai wins big time.
The future will tell us which company will go into the right and fully right direction without flaws and offering the stuff we all need :)
How long have you had yours? I’ve only had one crash this week. :)
@@synthseeker not even 2 weeks... First crash after 30mins and it often hangs , for example when playing a track and loading an MPE instrument, that happend multiple times.
Send it back? That’s crazy and it must have some kind of hardware issue. Are you running a large/complex set? 3rd party m4l plugins?
@@synthseeker actually almost nothing , even with just a few tracks it hangs fast. I also connected my hydrasynth via usb, worked 3 mins and bam crash. Guess it's hardware but not confident so I'll wait for the storm to calm down and see if then I want a new one or maybe Akai fights back with an awesome MPE device.
I’m using DIN midi but am not seeing crashes. I feel for you. 🫂
I played around with it a bit now and I'm a bit disappointed tbh. The browsing and workflow feels way more amaterurish than the Maschine or MPC.
I think it depends on which workflow you are using. It supports several different workflows, depending on whether you want to perform or jam or compose. As far as the browsing behavior, yeah, it definitely needs work. ;)
Well said ,,brother !! Cheers!!;-)!!
Thank you kindly
What about the foil on the display?
Long since removed. :)
"A certain amount of Diablo IV"... if only the game was compatible with the Push 3!
All the self-proclaimed influencers can s*ck on this video for a while, honest and nicely spoken Luke! I am very happy with my controller Push 3.
How you got yours so fast I’ll never know :)
@@synthseeker I was baffled as well, not gonna lie!
First informed and realistic representation I’ve seen of the push on TH-cam.
I gave the standalone a go. And it is going back. I’ll go so far as to say that it is just a beta product. Rushed isn’t even accurate here. Even just having included a way to map the standard LFO, would have been somewhat of an indication they were ready for release. It took M4L people a couple of days to get this implemented… shameful
The solutions for mapping I've seen so far aren't great either...but I wouldn't say "shameful"...but I agree it is not a great launch as far as setting expectation (hence this video.) Hope you find a way forward with whatever your tool ends up being. Thanks for sharing! :)
Synth Seeker - Interesting remarks.
I must say, it's on the user to develop the muscle memory to learn MPE. "You're going to learn to play an instrument." Agree. Ableton's marketing lit. says you can dial back the MPE sensitivity however.
That said, I'm not buying P-3 (I own a Push, so no beef with the broad concept.).
P-3 was ready to ship in '21 so I don't know a. how long it should have been held back b. Why it was released in such a clunky state.
To wax politically incorrect, your statement that folks will have to learn to use difficult synths is absolutely true. Most Live users probably play synths on a Qwerty keyboard. People with some aptitude to play keyboard are the ones that can use The Force or P-3 (even in a primitive state) most comfortably and in turn will get the most from it.
Best regards
P.S. You can turn down the sensitivity that annoyed you. Go to video "Stimming Reviews Ableton Push 3 Standalone. At or slightly before 33:39, he lays out exactly how you gain complete control over sensitivity.
Good luck with P-3.
I wasn’t annoyed at the sensitivity! But thank you for sharing. ;)
@@synthseeker and thank you for extended thoughts and admonishment not to expect too much from this device.😆
The Push 3 is about taking Ableton Live, live.
Buhdum-bum. :D
I have the standalone version i think it's useless. Too much limitations. Basically what you can't do with a push 2 by itself when it's plugged to computers you can't do it in standalone. And it's a lot. Standalone is not finished product. It's a pity.
Well, very limited…but as I noted it’s not useless…but it’s going to depend on your needs.
I am certain it will evolve further.
@@synthseeker well my needs are quite basic:
be able to copy paste multiple notes in midi clip edit mode= impossible (really?)
Set an lfo destination = impossible (no way?!?)
Manage groove pool = impossible
Manage clip follow behavior = impossible
Manage max for live basic sequencers = impossible
Manage chains = impossible
Manage mpe destinations = impossible
You can do really the basic basic stuff... Impossible to compose on the sofa 😜
It’ll just take time. Use controller mode, prep your set, perform without the computer if it makes sense. “Impossible” is just right now, not forever. I can understand your disappointment though.
@@synthseeker you're right, i sent back the standalone version waiting for Ableton to fix these issues.
all the best to you man.
Holy cow, 17 minutes in “it is NOT ableton in a box” ok ok… but it’s ableton in a box right?
Lol…not YET. Maybe one day.
Push 3 is making me think about selling my laptop and buying another one, slim and silent. Push 3 is a joke, a step backwards today.
No arranger, same screen as push 2...and expensive, with no license included... they rushed out the thing
I understand your feelings. Have fun with your new laptop! I disagree that it’s a joke because it’s quite capable for the things it’s meant to do, but the limitations are real and some people may not have a place where it will fit in its current configuration.
Sticker on screen -> SKIP
Lol, gotta leave it on in case I return it within 30 days.
@@synthseeker don't worry, I actually watched the video anyway 😜
bla bla bla
Baa baa baa? 🐑🐑🐑
LFO for Push 3, 4th attempt at leaving this comment…
ElisabethHomeland - LFO for Push 3 (trying without link to see if it stays up?)
Thanks for sharing, comments with links are held for review. I’ll delete the 3rd and 4th copy after I approve the one with the link.