Viper Break Down | Analyzing Viper's Mechanics and Rotation
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- In todays video we're breaking down Viper, the new Melee DPS job in Final Fantasy XIV: Dawntrail! We're analyzing Viper's skills, combos, rotations, and more, as well as going over the overarching ideas and mechanics for the job! Jump in and learn how to play Viper!
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Please keep in mind that Final Fantasy XIV is a live game that is constantly undergoing adjustments. All information in this video is subject to change by the development team of FFXIV.
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SONGS IN ORDER OF APPEARANCE
Mirage of You - James.lfo
Zone In - Daniel Fridell
Outro Song: Strange Fantasy - Chaxti
Music Provided by Epidemic Sound
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CHAPTERS:
0:00 Introduction
0:40 Dual Wield? Dual Blade?
1:00 Overarching Concepts
1:52 Dual Wield Combos
4:24 Twinblade Combos
6:10 Job Gauge
8:00 Reawakening Window
9:05 Buffs, Debuffs, and other Skills
11:07 Closing Thoughts and Outro - เกม
There's a mistake on the infographic at 3:50; The left ability in GCD2 gives the middle two abilities in GCD3 while the right GCD2 gives the outer GCD3.
Also worth noting that the 40sec cd ability has a longer recast time so there's a chance you'll be able to triple weave (with good ping) and it probably won't be a problem to double weave with worse ping (to an extent).
Loved the video. Great voice to listen to, hope to see more
Oh wow! You're right! I just went through the footage slowed down and it definitely does. I was led astray by the infographic ;-;
Interestingly that doesn't effect the methodology too much, but it does effect it order that you'd execute to combos in for sure.
Thanks for the comment! Plenty more to come!
As a MNK and BRD main who LOVES buffs/debuffs/DoTs and combo management, I think it's safe to assume I'll love VPR
You'll fit right in! VPR feels like they took a lot of small ideas from a lot of different jobs and slammed them all together into one super flashy job
Omg. Thank you for your terminologies used in the video regarding Dual Swords and Twinblade. Ive been using these terms since the live letter myself. I love it that im not alone in using these terms exclusively. Thank you S.F.
The only options, as far as I'm concerned. 😉
Thanks for stopping by!
@@sharlayanforum agreed! 😁
As a RPR main, this is looking like everything I wanted RPR to be 😆
RIGHT!?
Reaper is a really fun job and I enjoy it a lot but this is like the concept of Reapers most engaging skills mixed with the free-form combos of Monk with a Gunbreaker Continuation Machinist Hypercharge hybrid burst window.
Viper main eating so good in a month
I like reapers combat as it is, the mix of slow to fast makes a scythe feel like a scythe. Now if they just put deaths design into the combo, even if it's a different third hit to the combo.
@sanitala Yeah, I think Reaper is a good niche. Deaths Design is really the only part of the kit that is outright bad.
@@sharlayanforumI just hope it lives up to hype. People hyped RPR and then dropped it in a month.
@@sharlayanforum Yep just like heavy thrust was for dragoon back in the old days of 14.
What job do you think this will be closest to? I’d like to main a similar job leading up to DT. Reaper?
It's hard to say! I think Monk is the closest in terms of combo structure, but Reaper is definitely the closest in the overall gameplay loop that I've observed so far.
This just cements the fact that this is the melee for me.
I've sort of bounced off of every melee I've tried. The closest I've gotten to really resonating with one was Samurai, and even then once you get the rotation down it just feels pretty basic.
I've only got Dragoon, Reaper, and Samurai to 90 currently, maybe I'll like Ninja or Monk too if I can get them maxed out before Dawntrail.
If this looks like fun to you, I think you'd like Monk as well!
I think the opener, at least for savage purposes, is going to start with the twin blade charge, into your alternating follow ups, then reawaken. That follows a similar pattern to reaper enshroud, fits within 15s buff windows, and puts up all buffs. Then ending the opener with the ranged ability that procs from the red gems into your rotation.
Yeah, more than likely. I've seen a couple of different versions of an opener where you use one charge and then a double charge window. The optimization for the job seems like it'll be really interesting to explore!
I was more exploring the basic combos here, but there's a couple videos theorycrafting openers already
@@sharlayanforum yeah that’s what I was thinking too. Potentially double reawakening in the 2m as well. It’s going to be fun to mess around with.
And yeah, your video was great, helped me think through all this
Thank you very much! I'm excited to see more about it soon.
I'll be reluctant to play this class, but I don't hate it, unlike Reaper. I despise that class. I can never hype myself enough to use it. I'm still gonna stick with Ninja or Redmage. BUT I really look forward to using this class in PVP. 🤭
Interesting! What about reaper and what we've seen from Viper puts you off so much?
@@sharlayanforum Viper irritates me because they use two swords. Since Ninja already uses two knives, it feels a bit recycled. They could've paired a sword with a dagger or even just used one dagger. I just prefer weapon styles and combinations that would make my lalafell look elegant instead of looking like a tryhard. Talking about tryhards....Reapers gave me tons of those vibe..and I don't dig it.😒
I see! Yeah, I can understand that some might be more adverse to the "edginess" of Reaper, for sure. I think Viper hits a good spot, personally. It's dual swords, which can be similar to dual daggers, but you also get the Twinblade which is a totally unique silhouette in FFXIV. I personally find a lot of the Viper animations to be very acrobatic and elegant, it feels almost like a melee version of Dancer. At the end of the day its a personal preference thing, I suppose! Thanks for checking out the video!
So, no info yet about what's Viper utility? if we compare it to Ninja who has a quite useful one being Mug for the whole party, I find it weird Viper has none, why would they make a new damage only class when we have Samurai for that?
We have not seen any utility from the skills they've shown, no. There could be on hidden somewhere that they haven't shown, of course.
We don't know what the debuff on the enemy is yet. It might be that Viper just leaves a constant debuff on the target instead of a short burst window?
It could be! I imagine if it just has the constant lower potency debuff that applies to all damage received, and not just from the Viper(ala Mug instead of Deaths Design) that would make the most sense. It would function as a foil to Ninja then in that they would both occupy the same "space" in that circumstance.
Yoshi-P said they don't factor ping at all when developing new jobs. Viper is very evident of that, needing to double weave, seriously? Lol
My issue with it is, being so fast and flashy, you can't really tell when it switches from dual blade to twinblade at all. I was thinking each one would be a sword stance and change their actions based on current one active of 2 playstyles.
Yeah, I think that a lot of people were sort of expecting a stance system. I'm pleased with how it's looking right now, though! Im excited to see more from it.
Forcing a double weave for optimization is tough for a lot of people though, for sure.
There are a bunch of jobs that require double weave or you will absolutely sandbag. Gunbreaker and Dark Knight for two. Even after healers got their cast times reduced their single weave window is about the same as someone else double weaving.
Yeah, I think when we're talking top end optimization it definitely isn't unique. I double weave plenty of times even on SAM but I don't have a lot of ping issues, generally. I feel bad for the people who do and want to optimize!
@@Auesis DRK I had in mind when typing that yes, can't tell ya how many times I clipped my defensive oGCDs like Rampart oof.
Instead of having unique and separate stances for its weapons, Viper is a lot more free flowing and dexterous with its abilities. If you pay close attention, something cool about Viper is that the Dual-wield GCDs give you a heavy Twin-blade oGCD finisher, and the Twin-blade GCDs give you a fast Dual-wield oGCD combo. The Twin-blade GCDs are longer, allowing for the extra weaving space too. Basically Viper is about seemlessly and rapidly transitioning from Dual-wield to Twin-blade throughout its rotation, which exemplifies mastery of the weapon much more so than having two distinct stances that you have to manually swap between.
Given the enormous disappoint known as SMN, I am 100% leveling VPR and taking it through Dawntrail.
Do it up!
I like the reaper debuff tho :(
The debuff itself isn't really an issue, just that hitting a seperate GCD to keep it up is pretty lame when it could be a part of the combo instead.
@@sharlayanforum That's literally what makes it a good button... Pressing the debuff single target or AOE as a decision in micro managing damage is fun, it just happening is lame.
@Neoicecreaman I can understand the idea of micromanaging a dot being fun, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to find many people who agree with the idea of it being good that it's a separate button and not integrated into the combo.
@@sharlayanforum The reaper debuff button is one of the most interesting parts of the class, and you're probably just bad at reaper if you can't manage using it. :X
What's next? Sage would be better if they didn't need to use Eukrasia to activate Toxikon (Their DOT)? Why even have dps buttons when it seems you just wanna press 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1 the entire fight anyway
I'm sorry that you feel that way, but I don't see this comment thread being productive in any form.
Thanks for checking out the video, at any rate! I appreciate it!
To put it simply for all you nerds out there ... Viper is FFXIV DARTH MAUL ... WOOOOOOTTTTT
The force is strong with this one
or ya know Zidane from FF9 who has weapon named Viper and FF12 Gabranth twinblade wpn, the viper sword gauge looks like it.
Womp womp
I can't help but be a bit disappointed. Upkeep classes have never had good staying power in games and unfortunately only truly appeal to a very specific subset of players. For example I went from wanting to play this to going "Ehhhh maybe not". Because upkeep classes go one of two ways:
- You're pressing "not fun" buttons so you can then press "fun" buttons. Why not just make all of the buttons fun ones?
- Your buff timers are so generous that just performing a basic rotation keeps up all your buffs effortlessly.
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Death's Design and it's associated moves are by far the weakest part of Reaper's design. You press a lame button every like 29 seconds on average so all your other buttons hit harder. Instead of just having that damage being put into those abilities in the first place and letting you just hit your other buttons. Oh boy. How fun.
Putting all of that aside, why are we making double weaving mandatory to be optimal? They really couldn't have made this in any other way other than double weaving? It's not a problem for me, but I know some players who literally can't double weave regardless of skill level.
I have every melee at max level so I'm sure I'm gonna play it and have a more refined opinion later, but I'll just say the actually nitty gritty of how this class works has wildly tempered my expectations of it. And I love dual blade classes. Ninja was my main for a very long time in this game.
You describe this class as "free flowing" a lot in the video and I actually disagree. I think this is a very on-the-rails job from what I've gleamed so far. If you deviate from your set rotation you start dropping buffs and look like an idiot.
There's some fairness in a lot of this, and I agree with and disagree with some of your points. There are going to be people who don't enjoy the maintenance style classes, but I think that because the buffs/debuffs for Viper are all contained within their combos, it becomes an instant nonissue, similar to Samurai maintaining Fuka/Fugetsu or Ninja maintaining Huton with Armor Crush before the change. It's effortless, to an extent, but it also shows an awareness that I think evades the bad design language of something like Death's Design.
Double weaving to be optimal is annoying for some, but it won't be an issue for 95% of people who play this job. They aren't going to care if they clip a GCD by 0.3 or 0.5 seconds. It may make this job sub-optimal for those with extremely bad ping, but we have a lot of examples of jobs already in the camp in the game now that don't see too much friction with the majority of the player base. I think designing around it exclusively would be a huge mistake, but it seems like the only time it's required is in the Twinblade combo, which will occur only a maximum of twice every 35 seconds or so. Annoying for some, but not the end of the world.
I think that free-flowing is an accurate descriptor in the sense that either opening skill can be followed by either second skill which gives two different finisher options which feed into each other and reward flip-flopping back and forth in the combo trees. This design philosophy is much more akin to old-school Monk than any of the current melees in the game, and I would ascribe that same free-flowing moniker to the original Monk design as well. It feels heavily inspired by both the old Monk design and Reaper while refining and differentiating those two designs into something completely different and unique.
I don't think that dropping buffs will ever be an issue, realistically because they all last for 40 seconds, which gives you far more flexibility in reapplication than something like Dragoon or Monk as they currently stand, which require a strict adherence to make sure you're keeping their more limited-time buffs active. Extending the duration of these makes it possible to move through a different path of the combo tree without losing your buff as long as you don't neglect its reapplication completely.
Thanks for taking the time to leave a thought-out comment! I hope you enjoyed the video!
seeing viper makes me think that this is what monk should have been
I kind of get Monk vibes as well. The branching, free flowing combos feel like the sort of logical conclusion to what monks' original design would've expanded into
I mean, they kind of stole Monk's timers in order to exist so you're probably not far off...
I had been looking forward to the viper. But now that I see how complex, no complicated this class is going to be played... yes, I'm pretty disappointed.
Thats an interesting point of view! Why does the job seem unapproachable to you?
@@sharlayanforum I need to play with the gamepad to play at all. some classes have become for me no longer effectively playable and I had to give them up over time.
when I read that the viper should be the class, which will have the least skills, I was pleased.
but when I watch your video now, then I am already very disappointed, because for me these are unfortunately too many skills, which I have to distribute playable and effective on my buttons. and since I can unfortunately only accommodate 16 skills per skillbar. and more than 2 skillbar I just can not manage to play effectively anymore.
either I have to work with macros, or just "unimportant" skills not pull into the skillbars...
I will definitely look at the viper and play him, but this mass of skills I just did not expect...
I see. Don't forget they're adding a lot of options for accessibility to combine skills in Dawntrail into a single button! I hope that will be enough for you to be able to enjoy Viper! I don't play on gamepad, so I'm not sure what the limitations are like, but I have to imagine they figured out a way to make it work. Don't give up on it quite yet!
@@sharlayanforum You're right. I had the new fumktion, to be able to put whole combinations on a button then, totally off the screen! maybe this will be the function that could also allow me to play old, beloved classes again? we will see ;)