I bought a 3080 like 2 years ago and played 3 games with it that require that kind of performance. In the meantime I played 20+ games on my PS5 which cost me around 500$ when I bought it. The intrinsic value of a gaming PC has shrunk to immeasurable levels - for me at least.
I like this format of topic and discussion and I’ve noticed you guys have improved the competency of your discussions in the past year. I think 1-2 hours of prep and references to point back to would be a really interesting improvement to back up each of your thoughts and feel more grounded in stats or consumer sentiment
PC Sales are going down due to the following: 1. Component prices are going up and price to performance is going down. 2. Games are becoming less optimized and run like crap on ALL Hardware. 3. Users havent been given a reason yet to truly upgrade from GTX1000 -RTX2000 to the latest series. 4. There are fewer options than there were in 2014. 5. The companies are following market trends set by investor demand.
Fully agree also, there another issue, well at least in my country. The greed of retailers. GPU prices even for the previous gen from both AMD and NVIDIA, haven't come down. They still prey on those who want to upgrade and waited, they still want them to pay big bucks. As I said at least in my country. Plus the 2nd marked is still flodded with 3000 series NVIDIA GPU's and 6000 series AMD GPU's from the mining days. With a little bit of research and care for those cards who can really find a good if not excellent deal there.
@@Teksers - For those countries with prohibitively expensive GPUs does not affect NEW PC Sales and NEW Gaming Components that much. Most of the time the Used market makes up 60-80 percent of sales in 2nd/3rd world countries. Those sales are not tracked by manufacturers typically since there are no royalties and no residuals.
@@shiinzu Agreed, but the market studies show that those with some disposable money (even a little) are using it to spend on gaming over dining out, new car, or vacations.
The major problem is a combination of price/performance and poor game optimisation. Here in my region for example, the rtx 4060 costs $500, despite the fact that its a mid range card. Even if we calculate for shipping and inflation, the price makes no sense. Not to mention that the last gen cards are still expensive as hell here. Really it's become so so expensive to build a new pc that it's no longer worth it imo.
I agree with your opinion and it matches mine to an extent. Price of cards is not a factor for first time buyers. It does affect legacy users primarily. New PC Sales have not been affected that badly, but individual PC components is being pummeled right now.
@@nukfauxsho This is actually true, new users , especially those in first world countries , won't really feel the pinch of the current prices as much, unless they buy high end components. Also the low end market is atrocious we got the gtx 1630, Which costs $250 here in my country, RSA, the RTX 3050, Which is the most expensive '50 series card ever , the Rx 6400 and 6500 are also expensive for what they are. So I'd say if you're somebody who mainly stays on the low end, like me, you're going to feel the steep prices alot.
@@memenation5105 I feel for those in Second/Third World countries, but the sales of Gaming Components and PC Gaming in First World Countries make up 85-92% of the TOTAL Global Sales. You'll find the used market booms primarily in the Second/Third World Countries, and used components do not generate revenue for Manufacturers.
I choose a great time to make a gaming PC. Paid about $700 and was able to get what I wanted or close to it. I got a AMD 5600x, AMD 6600, B550 Gaming Plus, 32gb of RAM, Corsair 4000D and a 700W Power Supply. But what I thought was going to be a $300 small upgrade turned into a full upgrade. But I can see both sides as well. If you already have a 3060, there really isn't a ig need to upgrade to the 4090. Could be interesting to see what comes in the next 6-8 months.
I completely rebuilt a AM4 system from a AM4 system. went from 2700x to a 5700x. rx 580 to a rx 6750 xt. a B450 to a B550. all because of prices. and 12% more performance wasnt enough to drop an extra $300 to $500 on AM5. I built with a budget. Not on the fact of wanting the best thats out there.
@@fabolousjada5070it’s not ass but the GPU is slightly worse. Which kinda sucks. But remember PCs can do more than consoles, people don’t solely game on them.
I will say that if people are like me where I had a 1080 or older, and I use my computer for gaming and work, the 4080 was an easy sell for me after holding out for so many years.
Would it suprise you that the 4090 fires did not affect sales at all? It actually didnt! Same thing was thought of during the 970 3.5gb news cycle, but they sold very well and above expectations.
Was an easy fix and it was basically end user not take the time to look at what they where doing. You could from the start get a better cable that would work on towers for 15 bucks. I notice as soon as I put the card in it was a bad idea to use it the cable in the box.
I was stuck with a GTX 950 because of the mining shortage. I was finally able to upgrade my GTX 950 last month and because of the power requirements for the new 4000 series, I switched back to AMD and got an RX 6650 XT. I've played a few games and realised that I think I'm done with PC gaming. The way games are being developed and all the MTX has turned me off PC gaming completely.
PC gaming was never cheap. If someone wanted cheap gaming then console is where they moved to. I am impressed that Nvidia is even making 60 series cards, makes no sense considering how little money they would be making on those cards.
@@MrDecessus PC gaming was never "cheap", but it was still possible to build a system on a budget. As for the rest of your comment, by "60 series", do you mean the RTX 4060? If so, I couldn't disagree with you more. The 60's and 70's have always been the go to for most PC gamers.
@fabolousjada5070 Hey, genius. This may he shocking to you, but you can connect a PC to an oled screen. I use the 42" LG myself, and I can actually take full advantage of it with my 4090. I can actually play at full native 4k and 120fps while your weak PS5 struggles to even hit 60 in most games or come close to native 4k. You literally are limiting your experience of a 4k/120hz oled by playing on PS5 as you aren't using it to it's full capability. You also can use things like ultrawide oled monitors as PC allows games to be played at ultrawide.
I think Austin might be right. I believe there are a lot of people who are in a similar boat as I am, which is we got a computer 3 or 4 years ago (before prices went insane) but it was a low/mid range PC. For example, I have a B550M, Ryzen 3600 and a 1650 Super...Sure, it might make sense to replace the whole thing, but let's be honest, the 3600 is still a decent CPU for gaming, so the thing that really needs to be replaced is that 1650 Super (and a lot of people have just a reg 1650 or 1660). A lot of us out here have older GPU's that were still pretty capable a few years ago, but now, with the VRAM issues for a lot of newer games, might be severely holding us back. But this is where Matt is right...we don't have the money to upgrade, at least not on current gen GPU's because of how poorly priced they are, so we're looking at the used market for our upgrades, which will not show up on the balance sheets of these companies. Hell, I'm probably stuck with my 1650 Super for a while still. I just can't afford to upgrade, or if I can afford it, my budget is pretty restricted (being disabled means limited income, no ability to "save" etc, so I'm basically stuck looking in the $200-$300 range, so maybe a 6000 series?)
If you buy higher end hardware you they retain their value for longer, so when it comes time to sell your old parts or PC they will sell for a proportionally higher price than lower end hardware from the same generation of production. So the total cost of ownership is lower for mid-to-high tier pc hardware. It has a greater barrier to entry but you have to think long term.
@@jollygoodfellow3957 I understand that, but that doesn't do anything to actually help me actually afford those higher parts in the first place. It's not a choice I'm making, it's just reality for those of us who are on very limited incomes (I'm disabled, so not a lot of options, but if you want to help me buy a 4090 I can give you my Paypal lol)
@@mr.guillotine3766 You hit the nail on the head, just because higher end parts will overall last longer, it's being able to afford them in the first, place, and many people working paycheck to paycheck, or limited incomes like ourselves have to go with what they can afford, and make it last long as possible. For example, I work for a non profit, and while it won't make me rich it pays the bills, with a little left over but I have to watch what I spend, so just a few months back I built my first new computer for the first time in almost a decade, and I got the best I could afford after getting a deal on a weird Chinese Erying MATX Mobo with an Intel 12900H(14 core/20 thread laptop chip soldered onto the board with a custom heatsink, but it's a beast on Manjaro GNOME Linux), and a used AMD RX6650XT 8GB GPU with 32GB DDR4 RAM, and a 256GB NVME SSD, while carrying over my older storage HDD's, so yeah being on a more limited budget I make my system last as long as possible till I'm forced to upgrade, and even then I can still take most of my older systems, and make them usable for older games, and basic daily task using Manjaro GNOME Linux, and Solus Budgie Linux,
@@Hijynx87 Yep, I can do a couple of upgrades still and still use my B550M mobo...I can go with a Ryzen 7 from the 3000 series or Ryzen 5 or 7 from the 5000 series and they would all be upgrades from my current 3600. Then in a couple of years, then I can upgrade to AM5 maybe...or just get as much use as I can from my current platform (hoping to get at least 3-5 more years out of it before I have to go to AM5 and DDR5 RAM) I did just get 2 more sticks of RAM (will give me a total of 32 gigs of RAM) and a 2TB nvme, so I'll be doing those upgrades this weekend. I saw prices starting to move back up just a little so I decided to just get those upgrades now because I don't think they will get much cheaper than they are now (I paid like $68 for a 2TB nvme and only like $30 for 16gigs of RAM...and I can still use both of those if I do any other upgrades as long as I'm still on my current platform..the storage can be moved to any system or upgrade)
It's a great time for PC gaming but: We need more competition in the GPU space. We need developers to take PC ports seriously. We need to not consider AI utilization as the end all be all but a great addition into the PC gaming space.
I think the problem now is that price to performance is like 10% more for what you’re getting. Anyone who is upgrading is probably those who have 5-6 year old pc components. But for those of us who definitely upgraded on 2020-21, we’ve more than maxed out on our builds.
The problem is that 2-3 years ago when DDR4 setup is the main stream then Nvidia 30 Series just released, most people who bought and upgrade that year will stay on their platform because after those DDR5 platform came with a high price tag due to new platform and on the GPU side like Nvidia 40 Series, the performance difference is kinda low to non existent depending on the price. so most people didn't upgrade or they did more SSD storage or bought another gadget like phone upgrade or handheld system.
Hot take. Companies aren’t increasing in value due to increased sales or performance. They are simply increasing with inflation. 800 billion dollars 4 years ago has now ballooned with inflation to just over 1 trillion. The customer base isn’t growing and people are wanting to spend less.
You said it Austin, what's the point upgrading when it's only 5-10% better? I rather wait 2-3 years and get 30-40% upgrade when you can actually feel like you upgraded. It's the same with phones.
Truthfully one of the main problems with pc gaming is that everyone has different opinions about it. Especially with gaming hardware and their prices. There’s always a lot to talk about with pc gaming. People just want to play and enjoy their games. Not everyone wants to learn what to put together just to make their gaming pc work.
I use to be a heavy PC main but over the years after getting older an working more i basically hard swapped to a Xbox Series S i got for like 250$ pre-owned. Just feels cheaper an easier to maintain, my computer short circuited after a storm but tbh before that it was having issues constantly updating or having to fix bios or system issues got just genuinely annoying i couldn’t just LOAD up my computer an play. My GPU and motherboard just stopped working an i didn’t even know if my CPU still worked, but honestly was kind of a blessing i have backwards compatibility, an now with the new game pass plus gold for a year just generally cheaper an easier. Yes you get the ability to upgrade to newer an better hardware down the line but maintaining it just can be a headache an to have just a powerful lil box that hides behind my tv i can just quick resume anything i was doing just feels better, but in my situation it was a little different than just MAKING a swap kinda had to but i don’t regret it an don’t think ill swap back anytime soon.
this is basically what I came to say, sorta similar situation, decent specced gaming pc that cost a VERY pretty penny for all the parts started crashing, BSODing, lagging, stuttering in 2021 until I threw in the towel in summer 2022. I replaced part after part multiple times and spent countless hours, time effort and trouble and sleepless nights down the google rabbit hole, testing and troubleshooting, and hurting my back and neck digging and rearranging internal pc guts installing and uninstalling parts... it ended up being the last thing I would have ever expected and the only part I hadn't replaced, the 3700x ryzen cpu randomly dying without ever being overheated nor OC'd. I threw in the towel and got an i5 12500 (similar to 5600x), decent enough h670 mobo and carried over the old parts and that fixed that problem that was absolutely infuriating and maddening. Still had some windows update and driver gremlins though here and there. In my mid 30s now I'm done at the next major issue lol. My body is tired after 15+ years being at a desk just to pc game too, I had more fun in the xbox 360 days chilling out in a recliner or bed. And honestly, considering how my 3070 gpu alone was way more money than a ps5/series x, I'm not that happy with the performance considering the huge cost my pc cost total compared to just chilling comfy on a console in bed/the couch/recliner infront of a big tv. In my early 20s, I looked forward to tech problems as a nerdy way to "fix" stuff or feel accomplished, but in my mid 30s now that has all but fizzled out lol, irl is stressful enough and BS enough to have to deal with it just trying to pc game or browse online. It is NOT all sunshine and rainbows contrary to what elitists online like to portray. I think a modern console and an ok enough cheap laptop to play old stuff and retro games on emulator is the best of both worlds. I really do commend xbox on the backwards compatibility thing, I could lay in bed and effortlessly switch between a few of my fav fps ever, BF3 (360), BF4(XB1), BF1(XB1) effortlessly with a few clicks of the controller. IDK, at a certain point in life, you just get tired of BS and want stuff to work reliably and simply with as least trouble as humanly possible. Most stuff these days is cross play anyway to potentially play with buddies on other platforms too.
2020 was also a new console generation, so many people, especially if ps5 was out of stock, thought heck ill get a kick butt pc. console generations and pc hardware upgrading matching up arent uncommon , then add covid world.... now what is interesting, is FSR3 good enough that the steam deck and consoles are getting a giant performance boost in any game that can/ will use it? and how much could that affect pc sales going forward?
As I always wait for games to go on substantial discount anyways, coupled with no time to play(finish) every new game as it comes out, I only buy 3-4+ year old games. So I'm perfectly happy with my very outdated setup now. Of course, if I have a lot of extra money I would love to update them, but for now still enjoy gaming on this PC
Same here. By buying older games with lower specs requirement, all we got to do is to look for upgrades especially GPU in used market. And now that the mine craze had passed, it opened up used market to a whole new level. I've bought mine used GPU for fraction of the cost, of course with some suspicion of their performance in mind, and used it for my rig. Lucky for me I haven't run upon any problem and felt like it was the best purchase ever. Currently running on Ryzen 5 3600X (used) and RX 580 (used) and playing 2019 games.
Austin is right about GPU's advancing more slowly than they used to. We've basically hit the limit for what we can achieve technologically currently however we excell at making things smaller which is why we're seeing APU systems with an iGPU that's nearly equivalent to a dGPU from 6 years ago. Pretty soon I wouldn't be surprised to see that the idea of a dGPU is antiquated as APU systems achieve equal performance in a smaller form factor. It's just increasing the performance of APU's at this point because dGPU's just are being evolved into an integrated version. When technology cannot advance it what it can accomplish it tends to advance it's form factor. Look at a computer in general. They used to take up an entire room, then we got them down to a single tower, then we developed laptops, then mini PC's and such. Many of those things didn't lose much efficiency, just got smaller. Mini PC's are a great example of decent APU systems currently and how they'll advance in future. The days of a tower are slowing dying, but towers will always be used by those that wish to have a more colorful set-up.
In lots of places also, we've reached the crosspoint of electricity prices going up enough and GPUs being power hungry enough to make using a computer a financial concern to people who were just about able afford the hardware. I wouldn't have minded much GPUs to have these big generation-to-generation ups in performance if they focused to keep close to the same powerbudgets we would expect 10-15 years ago.
I don't think it's advancing slowly, I personally believe it's being held back because the companies know that consumers will not pay the price that TSMC is asking for, so the end result is a smaller die from TSMC to cut costs down. AMD has quite literally mentioned that they could have easily designed a larger gpu than the 7900 XTX, but chose not to because it would be too expensive and no one would want it. The things keeping gpu cost high is the increased demand for vram capacity, and the cost of the die at TSMC going up. It's why "budget gpus" have almost entirely died off, because we're at the point in history where you need quite an amount of vram before even considering to launch a budget gpu sub 200.
@@DudewitbowAPUs increasingly will take the place of budget GPUs. We're basically at GTX1060ish perf already. That's where the innovation will be, performance per watt.
im really excited for when the 7000G chips come out, with the faster ram they should be dramatically better than last gen. but the lack of performance boost isnt from tech limits, its from business focus. everything is being put twards AI, they dont actually care about gaming. hence every real boost now they have to use software because thats where there focus went to
The biggest problem for me with PC gaming is the big lack of controller support. In recent years it's picked up a lot of support indeed. However there's still tons of games on steam and others that don't support controller at all or just in the game but the menus require KB and M. It's like OMFG, seriously? So because of the lack of controller support and not 100% controller support, I need to stay on consoles as there is 100% controller support.
Not concerned with PC gaming. Am looking for answers on what makes a good video editing PC. Processor, RAM, GPU... Should be great with OBS, Davinci Resolve. Any suggestions?
I have a 2.5 year old laptop with Core i5 8th gen and rtx 2060 max-q. Still no reason to upgrade. Even runs cyberpunk at max setings on 40+ fps somehow.
Im still rocking the 2060 I bought in early 2020 when I needed a rig for online school. And it gets the job done. But I should look into upgrading at some point, cause it’s struggling to keep up with some current gen games. Especially if I want to run them at 120fps
Yep, and if u're not really a huge fan of maximizing things out. Desktop GTX 1080 (non Ti) and RTX 3060M user here and I can sort of feel the lag if u pair it with old cpus - luckily I have i3-12100F but still. Plus u cannot run things on Ray Tracing...there's a way to run directx ray trace on 1080 and 1080Ti, but dont expect them to run above 30fps.
Started looking into a GPU upgrade, Best this CPU could support is a 3060. Looked into a CPU upgrade, my MPG Z490 GAMING EDGE WIFI best CPU only supports a 3080. So, yeah I'm grabbing a 3060 and calling it a day. JS
Matt making the most sense. Austin coming in with the facts too. I think we have hit a slug point in hardware at the moment. Switch still using old hardware and making the most lol
i bought a 1080 ti at the end of 2022 for 220€ used and i still use my ryzen 5 3600x and 16gb ram so why would i need to buy something new? the 1080ti is old yes but its still powerful enough for everything. if i can buy a real upgrade for around that price point i would do it but there just is nothing
If you are here in this channel looking for PC gaming stuff, then you are already making a big mistake. The guy pointed a temp-meter at the exhaust fan of PS5 and called it "running hot", I'd rather watch a LTT video with incorrect graphs than from these guys.
I work for a tech distribution company and the PC market crashing after covid is a giant issue. Lots of jobs lost this year because that market isn't recovering. People bought their stuff for WFH when covid happened and that was it.
2060 super and AmD ryzen 7 2700x here. I have looked at upgrading but would have to rebuild everything. Since my pc can still run most games on high or higher settings I’m just gonna keep it until it dies or I feel my gaming performance really tanks. I built my pc at the end of 2019 beginning of 2020.
Ive kind of fallen into this pattern where i have upgraded my PC every 5 years (except GPU) and 2.5ish years later I upgrade the GPU. Seems to be working out alright for me. (currently have an i7-9700K and 3080). so im due for a CPU/Mobo upgrade probably next intel generation.
I think Nvidia hasn't removed the GeForce division yet because they are cautiously optimistic about AI. At the moment, AI is a fad that a lot of companies are getting into; if that fad dies down, Nvidia doesn't want to be stuck.
I went all in on a 4090 build. I'm coming from the 970. I think it's rather overkill for gaming. But for video editing? It's a great rig. If i didn't do editing, I'd probably go with a 3060 or something like that.
My 3070 is showing no signs of slowing down. I have a ryzen 7 3800x… and I’m not updating anything. The performance benefits just don’t have real world impacts over what I’m currently getting
I am an old man now. I used to buy a new PC every few years C64, Amiga, Pentium 90 and various system to follow. Until some day my most favourite game at the time, Fifa did not release on next gen PC anymore - only on consoles. Since that time I own a Xbox. Guess it is my 3rd or 4th generation now. I still have a fairly good PC, for the internet etc, I could run games on it, but I never bother. It just makes no sense to invest much money in a new PC every few years when your Series X runs almost everything in 120Hz and 4k. Even the games I used to play most, RPGs are not available on consoles. Fun fact I dont play at all anymore since years
I bought my laptop at the end of 2020 with a 2060 mobile and I only use it at 1080 which is the resolution of the attached screen. I thought about going back to desktop gaming, but a 3070 isn't a massive upgrade and the 40 series isn't really worth it either. I thought about getting a 3080, but as the around 6th best nividia card it doesn't offer the best value for money. With the mishandling of the 60 and 70 lines it's hard to find the best 30 or 40 series card if you want to remain with nvidia. Matt's point is the most important and the shitty release state of games ruins the point of having a new rig. If you can't play last of us stably with an i9 and 4090 what is the point. Also if you aren't playing 4k Ultra Ray tracing you don't need a new gpu, especially with dlss helping prolong the life of your card if you chose to use it. PC gaming isn't dying, the industry is too lazy to release a functioning game at launch.
I purchased a gaming laptop but thinking about selling it since I still have many ps4 games that i need to play. The laptop will depreciate significantly if i don't use it the next 2 years. I think i better off selling it and play the old games i haven't played and by the time I am finished it is going to be 2030 and then I definitely will need newer hardware
the major component people upgrade first the graphics car, and the value is going down. Most people by in the around the 300 dollar range, and that point has staggered in the performance side. so if they don't have to upgrade there gpu they don't have to build a new pc, only if cpu requirements skyrocket.
You both make good/strong points. Depending on the consumer depends on which one of your arguments it applies to. But you're both correct in your own ways depending on who the focus is on.
Standardisation - Consoles whose only job is to run games great. Removing all hard/software variables developers need to plan for. With full keyboard and mouse support for any game. It’s possible.
Porting issues. Bad driver support. Headaches before even getting the game to launch. That is my issue with not wanting to drop money on a gaming PC. Price to performance is good when and if it works. Looking at the last of Us Part 1 port.
What is good regarding the current GPU market situation is that we can run mostly all games on the market with something like a GTX 1070. Whereas before you had to have the best GPU's to run even current gen games (then) without framedrops below 60 fps. In other words, GPU's have finally catched up with the requirements to run a AAA game with high fidelity graphics. Atleast for singleplayer gamers, you can get away with pretty cheap GPU's, and if you need to have the best performance for singleplayer/multiplayer games, you also have those options.
Company’s that are buying AI GPUs right now will not do so every year and throw away the stuff from last year, so there is no worry that NVIDIA will ever stop making gaming GPUs, on the contrary they can build better gaming GPUs with the money they make with the AI stuff
I upgraded my PSU, CPU, Heat Sink, Motherboard and RAM at the beginning of the year for $1200 (1000 Watt ASUS STRIX PSU, i7 13700K, ASUS STRIX Z790 E Gaming WiFi, Noctua NH-D15 Chromax Edition, G-Skill Trident Z DDR5 5200Mhz) I want a Strix 4090 but the prices are more than all of the other components combined so I'm stuck with my Strix 2080ti for the moment and I don't see anytime in the near future when I will be able to get one if they stay at current prices.
THE PROBLEM WITH PC GAMING. MASSIVELY OVERPRICED. 0 GREAT EXCLUSIVE GAMES. GARBAGE MULTIPLAYER. GARBAGE ONLINE. LOSES BEST GRAPHICS/VISUALS TO CONSOLES EVERY YEAR. UNOPTIMIZED BUG RIDDEN GAMES. GARBAGE OS.
THE PROBLEM WITH 🐕💩 CONSOLE GAMING. YEARS OLD TECH PASSED OF AS NEW. OVERPRICED GAMES ALL EXCLUSIVE GAMES GO TO PC. PAID ONLINE MULTIPLAYER. LIMITED ONLINE SERVICES AND FEATURES. DOWNGRADED VISUALS AND PERFORMANCE. CLUNKY OS FILLED WITH ADS AND POPUPS.
I’m upgrading my entire system and so far it looks glorious. The price of DDR5 Memory is cheap, NVME drives are cheap. I’m buying more components than ever.
Do you know whay I want. A nvidia shield with a CPU like o better than snapdragon 8. That could be greate. Or maybe a 3080Ti CPU base like for any handheld device.
The reasons why I haven't upgraded is a) No job, b) cuz my 2017 HP OMEN still runs well & c) cuz I'm not ready to switch over to Windows 11 yet. Right now, my current PC isn't compatible with Windows 11, so I'm planning on just running this PC out 'til Windows 10 is no longer supported, then upgrade in 2 years. At that time, this PC will be 8 years old...it'll be time to upgrade anyway.
Weird take, I'm with Matt that I think it' more the game devs and ports that are wrecking the PC player numbers, but also, 2020 and 2021 was in the middle of the pandemic so more people were at home so they would want to buy computer componets if they're gonna stay at home. Might as well do something. Also comparing the marketing stratagy of PC and consoles is kind of weird cause consoles are very diffrent in terms of mindset by both consumers and these big companies. We expect a console to work right off the bat and for a while, like the whole console! A PC is mroe free flowing as in, you can upgrade all at once or upgrade as you go. So consoles will have bigger sales during a certain period cause it is a one and done thing till something breaks or theres a new gen, PCs are more spread out so they of course won't get the massive numbers ever as a console. Also game companies focusing on handhelds is a diffrent mindset than making money directtly from the hardware, you've said it before when a console is sold, usually it's being sold for a lose and is being made up with the game sales. Just cause handhelds are taking off doesn't change that handhelds are consoles that are still bound to this rule. And I don't think game devs will risk going into the handheld market without a solid gaming platform unless they're really stupid.
I mean if you're only playing esports games then really there's almost no need to upgrade most of the time unless the game changes graphically or maybe change of engine.
When I built my system, I made sure to get a large enough power supply to last multiple upgrades. Did I need a 1600W PSU at the start? No, but it doesn't hurt having it, and if power demands get higher I won't have to spend even more money replacing a PSU that then if I don't need another PC will just get put in a box and collect dust
Issue with PC gaming is that it is just waiting for scraps from consoles. No longer the driver of innovation, no more Half Life or Crysis, no more revolutionary games that make everyone's hardware obsolete when it comes out.
Nvidia, while making money hand over fist, is still gearing up to produce 50 series and is still launching new software tweaks like DLSS 3.5. I don't think they are getting out of the gaming space.
I think Matt is right about why people are going to continue to upgrade. Especially with chipset changes and the adoption of DDR5, I can see a lot of people with a 20+ series Nvidia GPU or AMD equivalent at least upgrading everything around that card, then snagging a new card when the prices are comfortable for them.
...VR...like Valve releasing a standalone VR headset, that can pair with the Steamdeck, and play the entire Steam Library on a giant virtual 100 inch screen, with no need for a big ol PC sitting on the desk could the catalyst for moving all the stuff we used to do on a monitor into the virtual space...like not right away...but like...VR games are fun, (I'd argue more fun than an monitor...) and having as many virtual screens to do work could be pretty awesome.
Devs using Unreal engine 5 are demonstrating that the only way to get good performance is having a newer card with AI Upscaling (dlss/super resolution). Devs are not optimizing properly and if you look at the steam charts, the VAST MAJORITY of people currently don't have a GPU capable of running those games with AI upscaling (my 5700xt for example) . So if for example I'd like to have very good performance at 1440p in UE5 games, it would cost me the price of a current gen console to target equivalent FPS at lower resolution. I don't really see why I should fork that much money at big tech to upgrade a card that should be running FINE.
Am I the only one who noticed that when Matt started talking about a “monopoly” the Monopoly Man’s head that was over his had a monocle. This is proof of the Mandela effect.
Nothing beats the feeling of assembling, upgrading and tuning your own rig and then play games on them. Satisfaction that console gamers will never understand. PC gaming for life.
@@jose131991 When you face problems, you learn how to solved it or get around it, and the knowledge afterwards remains with you. Technologies evolved constantly and you have to catch up with them. Consoles won't give you this kind of educations.
@@kluangh1tam and that’s fine and all….but I don’t think many people you buy ANY hardware mainly for gaming is interested in problem solving or developing new skills lol. Gaming is supposed to be a temporary escape from all of that.
Alot of the AAA games coming out currently are buggy messes that take upwards of a year+ to get functional let alone optimized on pc where as indies (not all) dont require as much hardware to run and are in my experiences alot more fun (hades, badtion, Sakura, ori, hollow knight, etc.) Why would people upgrade parts when the game worth playing don't require it. Just because new tech is released fom amd, nvidia, Intel, Asus, msi, etc doesn't mean people need or want to upgrade. I think that's the part Austin is missing from his thesis in my opinion.
Austin just reinforced my thoughts on now being the perfect time to buy pc parts. I just got a new monitor that's higher than 55hz and is 1440p its awsome specially sense I have never had higher than 1080p. That was under 150 bucks too and im super poor now is the time to buy pc stuff specially if you don't even have a P.C. with a apu you can build something for 300 dollars give or take and be able to upgrade it later.
I bought a low profile 1050 TI for an office PC during the pandemic. Plays the games I play on PC well and I have a PS5. I honestly haven't felt a need to upgrade my PC. I honestly think that people don't realize that the reason the PC market has so much growth was because of gamers using their stimulus check to buy gaming PCs lol.
I bought a brand new gaming PC in July for my partner's bday. I don't mess with PC at all, so it better last her a while cuz $1700 is too much to waste lolol. It is 'top of the line' according to her.
I bought a 3080FE at retail price, when it released but mostly because it was managed better in the UK. I only upgraded because I was running a 4th gen Intel and a Zotec 980 for over 5 years. When will I upgrade again, maybe in another 5 years 🤷🏾♂️
I only have a 1660TI in my PC but I only have a 1080p 165hz monitor so it actually still works fine. If I were to have a 4k 240hz monitor I'm sure my 1660ti would be holding me back so bad lol.
i agree a pc today will last you 10 years per upgrade but 10 years ago they would last you a couple years if lucky for real. like newer cars just keep lasting longer then the older models did you can buy a decent 10 year old used car now 20-30 years ago they ran but that was about it.
it's not that pcs are expensive, it's just consoles are cheap, and of course they are cheaper when they run at 30 fps and have terrible hardware. bought a 3070 some time ago and already thinking about upgrading, in the meantime got a 4060 ti rig for my wife. but even a bad pc is better than a console
Most people don't care about upgrading their pc, they will game on the same piece of junk, as they don't have the money to upgrade it to something better. I've been gaming on a 700 series gpu for over a decade.
Machine learning models will at some point run on dedicated processors. Google uses specific processors to handle lots of their models and not GPUs so I would think if specific models become succesful enough they will also move to dedicated processors instead of keep buying GPUs. But possible companies will try and make new models and thereby need GPUs for that. Intel and AMD has bought FPGA companies which could be stepping stones to make dedicated processors, which possibly is a way for them to eat into Nvidia’s profit while they also improve their GPUs to be used for models. AMD earns way more from consoles than PC gaming, they dont seem to care to really undercut Nvidia to really push for more AMD GPUs to be sold (it would also require they make enough GPUs to keep up with that demand).
I waited to upgrade until prices dropped. I had a Ryzen 7 2700x and an RTX 2070 Super and I bought my son the base NZXT prebuilt with a Ryzen 5 5500G and bought him a GTX 1080. When the 30 series finally dropped to retail price I bought a 3080 12gb model and gave my son my 2070 Super. I wanted to upgrade to AM5 but I don't have the money to upgrade my CPU, Mobo and RAM so I just picked up a Ryzen 9 5900X. It works with everything I already have and it should last me a while.
You sound broke bro and im a parent myself … time to go to console bro your acting like a man child. Grow up get some consoles and lay off the pc gaming your about 36
I think you guys are missing an important point in your argument. In 2020 and 2021 everyone was "working from home" So they had the time to game WAY more. They also could justify the upgrade to the spouse for that 3090 because they were "working from home" lol
![ตีสิบเดย์ [FULL] | นางเอกหมอลำเงินล้าน "อุ๋งอิ๋ง เพชรบ้านแพง" & ไฮโซสาวสุดฮอต "ลิลลี่ เหงียน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jPxQS_EgrJ4/mqdefault.jpg)
Austin's shirt is all the proof I need that he has been bought by McLaren and we can't trust his unbiased opinion on formula 1 any longer /s
Least his not a redbull/verstappen Chad.
@@brentruvio6556Very true.
McLaren is the best F1 team so his opinion is even more trusted to me 😅
@@silverarrow7 Fair enough. Agree to disagree i guess.
He got that shirt from Temu
I bought a 3080 like 2 years ago and played 3 games with it that require that kind of performance.
In the meantime I played 20+ games on my PS5 which cost me around 500$ when I bought it.
The intrinsic value of a gaming PC has shrunk to immeasurable levels - for me at least.
Same here
If you bought a 3080 to play 1080p at 60fps then you bought the wrong thing. Thats not the fault of pc gaming.
@@DutchManticore Nice cope
So you wasted your money got it lol
Love my 4080. Games play so much better and have way better graphics. My ps5 is never used anymore.
I like this format of topic and discussion and I’ve noticed you guys have improved the competency of your discussions in the past year. I think 1-2 hours of prep and references to point back to would be a really interesting improvement to back up each of your thoughts and feel more grounded in stats or consumer sentiment
PC Sales are going down due to the following:
1. Component prices are going up and price to performance is going down.
2. Games are becoming less optimized and run like crap on ALL Hardware.
3. Users havent been given a reason yet to truly upgrade from GTX1000 -RTX2000 to the latest series.
4. There are fewer options than there were in 2014.
5. The companies are following market trends set by investor demand.
Fully agree also, there another issue, well at least in my country.
The greed of retailers. GPU prices even for the previous gen from both AMD and NVIDIA, haven't come down. They still prey on those who want to upgrade and waited, they still want them to pay big bucks. As I said at least in my country.
Plus the 2nd marked is still flodded with 3000 series NVIDIA GPU's and 6000 series AMD GPU's from the mining days. With a little bit of research and care for those cards who can really find a good if not excellent deal there.
@@Teksers - For those countries with prohibitively expensive GPUs does not affect NEW PC Sales and NEW Gaming Components that much. Most of the time the Used market makes up 60-80 percent of sales in 2nd/3rd world countries. Those sales are not tracked by manufacturers typically since there are no royalties and no residuals.
People have less money now than ever. Costs of life are a big reason folks are not buying pc components
@@shiinzu Agreed, but the market studies show that those with some disposable money (even a little) are using it to spend on gaming over dining out, new car, or vacations.
I would say its all about underpaid gamers that can't afford much more than bottom of the barrel equipment.
The major problem is a combination of price/performance and poor game optimisation. Here in my region for example, the rtx 4060 costs $500, despite the fact that its a mid range card. Even if we calculate for shipping and inflation, the price makes no sense. Not to mention that the last gen cards are still expensive as hell here. Really it's become so so expensive to build a new pc that it's no longer worth it imo.
I agree with your opinion and it matches mine to an extent. Price of cards is not a factor for first time buyers. It does affect legacy users primarily. New PC Sales have not been affected that badly, but individual PC components is being pummeled right now.
@@nukfauxsho This is actually true, new users , especially those in first world countries , won't really feel the pinch of the current prices as much, unless they buy high end components. Also the low end market is atrocious we got the gtx 1630, Which costs $250 here in my country, RSA, the RTX 3050, Which is the most expensive '50 series card ever , the Rx 6400 and 6500 are also expensive for what they are. So I'd say if you're somebody who mainly stays on the low end, like me, you're going to feel the steep prices alot.
@@nukfauxsho also lazy developers who don't know how to optimize their games, or aren't given the time to do so by publishers does not help us at all.
@@memenation5105 I feel for those in Second/Third World countries, but the sales of Gaming Components and PC Gaming in First World Countries make up 85-92% of the TOTAL Global Sales. You'll find the used market booms primarily in the Second/Third World Countries, and used components do not generate revenue for Manufacturers.
The RTX 4060 is a low end gpu? It's at least medium end. And no, I'm not justifying its high price.
Edit: I forgot to put the gpu model.
Kind of hilarious that you can spend $500 bucks on a GPU and get worse performance than a $400 console.
Bro they still talk smack lol like bruh 😅 star wars cant even be played on a avg rig
I choose a great time to make a gaming PC. Paid about $700 and was able to get what I wanted or close to it. I got a AMD 5600x, AMD 6600, B550 Gaming Plus, 32gb of RAM, Corsair 4000D and a 700W Power Supply. But what I thought was going to be a $300 small upgrade turned into a full upgrade.
But I can see both sides as well. If you already have a 3060, there really isn't a ig need to upgrade to the 4090. Could be interesting to see what comes in the next 6-8 months.
I completely rebuilt a AM4 system from a AM4 system. went from 2700x to a 5700x. rx 580 to a rx 6750 xt. a B450 to a B550. all because of prices. and 12% more performance wasnt enough to drop an extra $300 to $500 on AM5. I built with a budget. Not on the fact of wanting the best thats out there.
Bro thats ass compared to the ps5 and its 500 bucks 😂
@@fabolousjada5070it’s not ass but the GPU is slightly worse. Which kinda sucks. But remember PCs can do more than consoles, people don’t solely game on them.
I will say that if people are like me where I had a 1080 or older, and I use my computer for gaming and work, the 4080 was an easy sell for me after holding out for so many years.
IDk i heard him say people wont buy an rtx 4060 ti but I did in my system and i can play Amy game at high resolution and high frame rate
Well the 4090s catching fire really didn't help. And then EVGA leaving Nvidia.
Would it suprise you that the 4090 fires did not affect sales at all? It actually didnt! Same thing was thought of during the 970 3.5gb news cycle, but they sold very well and above expectations.
Was an easy fix and it was basically end user not take the time to look at what they where doing. You could from the start get a better cable that would work on towers for 15 bucks. I notice as soon as I put the card in it was a bad idea to use it the cable in the box.
I was stuck with a GTX 950 because of the mining shortage. I was finally able to upgrade my GTX 950 last month and because of the power requirements for the new 4000 series, I switched back to AMD and got an RX 6650 XT. I've played a few games and realised that I think I'm done with PC gaming. The way games are being developed and all the MTX has turned me off PC gaming completely.
PC gaming was never cheap. If someone wanted cheap gaming then console is where they moved to. I am impressed that Nvidia is even making 60 series cards, makes no sense considering how little money they would be making on those cards.
@@MrDecessus PC gaming was never "cheap", but it was still possible to build a system on a budget. As for the rest of your comment, by "60 series", do you mean the RTX 4060? If so, I couldn't disagree with you more. The 60's and 70's have always been the go to for most PC gamers.
no thanks. ill stick to my "set top box" PS5. all the fun without the headaches.
@@unknown-jx5yt I've been thinking of getting an Xbox Series X for when I just want to sit back and chill and leave my PC for my SVG work.
@@MrHowardMoon not a bad idea imo. nothing against PC gaming or gamers but ease of use is the main reason ive always been a console player.
PC IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN GARBAGE. BAD ONLINE, NO EXCLUSIVES, LOSES BEST VISUALS TO CONSOLES YEARLY.
Facts the visuals look better on pc when on your phone on youtube but in person nothing beats a ps5 with a oled tv
@fabolousjada5070 Hey, genius. This may he shocking to you, but you can connect a PC to an oled screen. I use the 42" LG myself, and I can actually take full advantage of it with my 4090.
I can actually play at full native 4k and 120fps while your weak PS5 struggles to even hit 60 in most games or come close to native 4k.
You literally are limiting your experience of a 4k/120hz oled by playing on PS5 as you aren't using it to it's full capability.
You also can use things like ultrawide oled monitors as PC allows games to be played at ultrawide.
Please provide to me a list of games you play on PS5 at full native 4k and 120fps. I play literally every game on PC at native 4k 120.
it is up to devs if they are going to optimize better or if games are just going to be relying on upscaling software.
😮😮😮😮😅Ho9
😊
6:19😊
You can only optimize stuff so much before you start to just straight up remove features of the game.
@@blackdoc6320Especially when you as a dev needs to work with all sorts of hardware and software variables
I think Austin might be right. I believe there are a lot of people who are in a similar boat as I am, which is we got a computer 3 or 4 years ago (before prices went insane) but it was a low/mid range PC. For example, I have a B550M, Ryzen 3600 and a 1650 Super...Sure, it might make sense to replace the whole thing, but let's be honest, the 3600 is still a decent CPU for gaming, so the thing that really needs to be replaced is that 1650 Super (and a lot of people have just a reg 1650 or 1660). A lot of us out here have older GPU's that were still pretty capable a few years ago, but now, with the VRAM issues for a lot of newer games, might be severely holding us back.
But this is where Matt is right...we don't have the money to upgrade, at least not on current gen GPU's because of how poorly priced they are, so we're looking at the used market for our upgrades, which will not show up on the balance sheets of these companies. Hell, I'm probably stuck with my 1650 Super for a while still. I just can't afford to upgrade, or if I can afford it, my budget is pretty restricted (being disabled means limited income, no ability to "save" etc, so I'm basically stuck looking in the $200-$300 range, so maybe a 6000 series?)
If you buy higher end hardware you they retain their value for longer, so when it comes time to sell your old parts or PC they will sell for a proportionally higher price than lower end hardware from the same generation of production. So the total cost of ownership is lower for mid-to-high tier pc hardware. It has a greater barrier to entry but you have to think long term.
@@jollygoodfellow3957 I understand that, but that doesn't do anything to actually help me actually afford those higher parts in the first place. It's not a choice I'm making, it's just reality for those of us who are on very limited incomes (I'm disabled, so not a lot of options, but if you want to help me buy a 4090 I can give you my Paypal lol)
@@mr.guillotine3766 You hit the nail on the head, just because higher end parts will overall last longer, it's being able to afford them in the first, place, and many people working paycheck to paycheck, or limited incomes like ourselves have to go with what they can afford, and make it last long as possible.
For example, I work for a non profit, and while it won't make me rich it pays the bills, with a little left over but I have to watch what I spend, so just a few months back I built my first new computer for the first time in almost a decade, and I got the best I could afford after getting a deal on a weird Chinese Erying MATX Mobo with an Intel 12900H(14 core/20 thread laptop chip soldered onto the board with a custom heatsink, but it's a beast on Manjaro GNOME Linux), and a used AMD RX6650XT 8GB GPU with 32GB DDR4 RAM, and a 256GB NVME SSD, while carrying over my older storage HDD's, so yeah being on a more limited budget I make my system last as long as possible till I'm forced to upgrade, and even then I can still take most of my older systems, and make them usable for older games, and basic daily task using Manjaro GNOME Linux, and Solus Budgie Linux,
There 3600 is decent, I’ve got one too with an rtx 3070. I’m replacing it with a 5900x though, it’s nice that I don’t need to get a new mobo! X570
@@Hijynx87 Yep, I can do a couple of upgrades still and still use my B550M mobo...I can go with a Ryzen 7 from the 3000 series or Ryzen 5 or 7 from the 5000 series and they would all be upgrades from my current 3600. Then in a couple of years, then I can upgrade to AM5 maybe...or just get as much use as I can from my current platform (hoping to get at least 3-5 more years out of it before I have to go to AM5 and DDR5 RAM)
I did just get 2 more sticks of RAM (will give me a total of 32 gigs of RAM) and a 2TB nvme, so I'll be doing those upgrades this weekend. I saw prices starting to move back up just a little so I decided to just get those upgrades now because I don't think they will get much cheaper than they are now (I paid like $68 for a 2TB nvme and only like $30 for 16gigs of RAM...and I can still use both of those if I do any other upgrades as long as I'm still on my current platform..the storage can be moved to any system or upgrade)
It's a great time for PC gaming but:
We need more competition in the GPU space.
We need developers to take PC ports seriously.
We need to not consider AI utilization as the end all be all but a great addition into the PC gaming space.
I think the problem now is that price to performance is like 10% more for what you’re getting. Anyone who is upgrading is probably those who have 5-6 year old pc components. But for those of us who definitely upgraded on 2020-21, we’ve more than maxed out on our builds.
The problem is that 2-3 years ago when DDR4 setup is the main stream then Nvidia 30 Series just released, most people who bought and upgrade that year will stay on their platform because after those DDR5 platform came with a high price tag due to new platform and on the GPU side like Nvidia 40 Series, the performance difference is kinda low to non existent depending on the price. so most people didn't upgrade or they did more SSD storage or bought another gadget like phone upgrade or handheld system.
Hot take. Companies aren’t increasing in value due to increased sales or performance. They are simply increasing with inflation. 800 billion dollars 4 years ago has now ballooned with inflation to just over 1 trillion. The customer base isn’t growing and people are wanting to spend less.
You said it Austin, what's the point upgrading when it's only 5-10% better? I rather wait 2-3 years and get 30-40% upgrade when you can actually feel like you upgraded. It's the same with phones.
Truthfully one of the main problems with pc gaming is that everyone has different opinions about it. Especially with gaming hardware and their prices. There’s always a lot to talk about with pc gaming. People just want to play and enjoy their games. Not everyone wants to learn what to put together just to make their gaming pc work.
I use to be a heavy PC main but over the years after getting older an working more i basically hard swapped to a Xbox Series S i got for like 250$ pre-owned. Just feels cheaper an easier to maintain, my computer short circuited after a storm but tbh before that it was having issues constantly updating or having to fix bios or system issues got just genuinely annoying i couldn’t just LOAD up my computer an play. My GPU and motherboard just stopped working an i didn’t even know if my CPU still worked, but honestly was kind of a blessing i have backwards compatibility, an now with the new game pass plus gold for a year just generally cheaper an easier. Yes you get the ability to upgrade to newer an better hardware down the line but maintaining it just can be a headache an to have just a powerful lil box that hides behind my tv i can just quick resume anything i was doing just feels better, but in my situation it was a little different than just MAKING a swap kinda had to but i don’t regret it an don’t think ill swap back anytime soon.
this is basically what I came to say, sorta similar situation, decent specced gaming pc that cost a VERY pretty penny for all the parts started crashing, BSODing, lagging, stuttering in 2021 until I threw in the towel in summer 2022. I replaced part after part multiple times and spent countless hours, time effort and trouble and sleepless nights down the google rabbit hole, testing and troubleshooting, and hurting my back and neck digging and rearranging internal pc guts installing and uninstalling parts... it ended up being the last thing I would have ever expected and the only part I hadn't replaced, the 3700x ryzen cpu randomly dying without ever being overheated nor OC'd. I threw in the towel and got an i5 12500 (similar to 5600x), decent enough h670 mobo and carried over the old parts and that fixed that problem that was absolutely infuriating and maddening. Still had some windows update and driver gremlins though here and there. In my mid 30s now I'm done at the next major issue lol. My body is tired after 15+ years being at a desk just to pc game too, I had more fun in the xbox 360 days chilling out in a recliner or bed. And honestly, considering how my 3070 gpu alone was way more money than a ps5/series x, I'm not that happy with the performance considering the huge cost my pc cost total compared to just chilling comfy on a console in bed/the couch/recliner infront of a big tv. In my early 20s, I looked forward to tech problems as a nerdy way to "fix" stuff or feel accomplished, but in my mid 30s now that has all but fizzled out lol, irl is stressful enough and BS enough to have to deal with it just trying to pc game or browse online. It is NOT all sunshine and rainbows contrary to what elitists online like to portray. I think a modern console and an ok enough cheap laptop to play old stuff and retro games on emulator is the best of both worlds. I really do commend xbox on the backwards compatibility thing, I could lay in bed and effortlessly switch between a few of my fav fps ever, BF3 (360), BF4(XB1), BF1(XB1) effortlessly with a few clicks of the controller. IDK, at a certain point in life, you just get tired of BS and want stuff to work reliably and simply with as least trouble as humanly possible. Most stuff these days is cross play anyway to potentially play with buddies on other platforms too.
My PC is still from 2016, and it’s chugging along. 1080 and i7 6700k all the way babyyyyy😎
2020 was also a new console generation, so many people, especially if ps5 was out of stock, thought heck ill get a kick butt pc. console generations and pc hardware upgrading matching up arent uncommon , then add covid world.... now what is interesting, is FSR3 good enough that the steam deck and consoles are getting a giant performance boost in any game that can/ will use it? and how much could that affect pc sales going forward?
As I always wait for games to go on substantial discount anyways, coupled with no time to play(finish) every new game as it comes out, I only buy 3-4+ year old games. So I'm perfectly happy with my very outdated setup now. Of course, if I have a lot of extra money I would love to update them, but for now still enjoy gaming on this PC
Same here. By buying older games with lower specs requirement, all we got to do is to look for upgrades especially GPU in used market. And now that the mine craze had passed, it opened up used market to a whole new level. I've bought mine used GPU for fraction of the cost, of course with some suspicion of their performance in mind, and used it for my rig. Lucky for me I haven't run upon any problem and felt like it was the best purchase ever. Currently running on Ryzen 5 3600X (used) and RX 580 (used) and playing 2019 games.
Just buy a ps5 youll see your wasting your time
Austin is right about GPU's advancing more slowly than they used to.
We've basically hit the limit for what we can achieve technologically currently however we excell at making things smaller which is why we're seeing APU systems with an iGPU that's nearly equivalent to a dGPU from 6 years ago.
Pretty soon I wouldn't be surprised to see that the idea of a dGPU is antiquated as APU systems achieve equal performance in a smaller form factor. It's just increasing the performance of APU's at this point because dGPU's just are being evolved into an integrated version.
When technology cannot advance it what it can accomplish it tends to advance it's form factor. Look at a computer in general. They used to take up an entire room, then we got them down to a single tower, then we developed laptops, then mini PC's and such.
Many of those things didn't lose much efficiency, just got smaller. Mini PC's are a great example of decent APU systems currently and how they'll advance in future. The days of a tower are slowing dying, but towers will always be used by those that wish to have a more colorful set-up.
In lots of places also, we've reached the crosspoint of electricity prices going up enough and GPUs being power hungry enough to make using a computer a financial concern to people who were just about able afford the hardware.
I wouldn't have minded much GPUs to have these big generation-to-generation ups in performance if they focused to keep close to the same powerbudgets we would expect 10-15 years ago.
I don't think it's advancing slowly, I personally believe it's being held back because the companies know that consumers will not pay the price that TSMC is asking for, so the end result is a smaller die from TSMC to cut costs down. AMD has quite literally mentioned that they could have easily designed a larger gpu than the 7900 XTX, but chose not to because it would be too expensive and no one would want it. The things keeping gpu cost high is the increased demand for vram capacity, and the cost of the die at TSMC going up. It's why "budget gpus" have almost entirely died off, because we're at the point in history where you need quite an amount of vram before even considering to launch a budget gpu sub 200.
@@DudewitbowAPUs increasingly will take the place of budget GPUs. We're basically at GTX1060ish perf already. That's where the innovation will be, performance per watt.
im really excited for when the 7000G chips come out, with the faster ram they should be dramatically better than last gen.
but the lack of performance boost isnt from tech limits, its from business focus. everything is being put twards AI, they dont actually care about gaming. hence every real boost now they have to use software because thats where there focus went to
My computer never took up my entire room buddy and im 25
The biggest problem for me with PC gaming is the big lack of controller support. In recent years it's picked up a lot of support indeed. However there's still tons of games on steam and others that don't support controller at all or just in the game but the menus require KB and M. It's like OMFG, seriously? So because of the lack of controller support and not 100% controller support, I need to stay on consoles as there is 100% controller support.
Not concerned with PC gaming. Am looking for answers on what makes a good video editing PC. Processor, RAM, GPU... Should be great with OBS, Davinci Resolve. Any suggestions?
I have a 2.5 year old laptop with Core i5 8th gen and rtx 2060 max-q. Still no reason to upgrade. Even runs cyberpunk at max setings on 40+ fps somehow.
Im still rocking the 2060 I bought in early 2020 when I needed a rig for online school. And it gets the job done. But I should look into upgrading at some point, cause it’s struggling to keep up with some current gen games. Especially if I want to run them at 120fps
You can still game just fine on something like a GTX 1080 ti. Not a massive reason to upgrade.
I ended up having too. Just too slow rn
Yep, and if u're not really a huge fan of maximizing things out. Desktop GTX 1080 (non Ti) and RTX 3060M user here and I can sort of feel the lag if u pair it with old cpus - luckily I have i3-12100F but still. Plus u cannot run things on Ray Tracing...there's a way to run directx ray trace on 1080 and 1080Ti, but dont expect them to run above 30fps.
most games don't even work on 1080 ti
Maybe it's going into laptops, gaming laptops vs pc sales maybe there's something there
I agree with Matt. I can't as a single parent, not afford to upgrade my PC. The economy has affected PC sales.
Lots of people running 1660, 580 and 1080 still.
I think a lot of people skipped 20' 30' and 40' era cards.
Started looking into a GPU upgrade, Best this CPU could support is a 3060. Looked into a CPU upgrade, my MPG Z490 GAMING EDGE WIFI best CPU only supports a 3080. So, yeah I'm grabbing a 3060 and calling it a day. JS
Matt making the most sense. Austin coming in with the facts too. I think we have hit a slug point in hardware at the moment. Switch still using old hardware and making the most lol
i bought a 1080 ti at the end of 2022 for 220€ used and i still use my ryzen 5 3600x and 16gb ram so why would i need to buy something new? the 1080ti is old yes but its still powerful enough for everything. if i can buy a real upgrade for around that price point i would do it but there just is nothing
Plot Twist. A.I. is implemented INTO GPUs...making them infinitely faster.
If you are here in this channel looking for PC gaming stuff, then you are already making a big mistake. The guy pointed a temp-meter at the exhaust fan of PS5 and called it "running hot", I'd rather watch a LTT video with incorrect graphs than from these guys.
I work for a tech distribution company and the PC market crashing after covid is a giant issue. Lots of jobs lost this year because that market isn't recovering. People bought their stuff for WFH when covid happened and that was it.
2060 super and AmD ryzen 7 2700x here. I have looked at upgrading but would have to rebuild everything. Since my pc can still run most games on high or higher settings I’m just gonna keep it until it dies or I feel my gaming performance really tanks.
I built my pc at the end of 2019 beginning of 2020.
Ive kind of fallen into this pattern where i have upgraded my PC every 5 years (except GPU) and 2.5ish years later I upgrade the GPU. Seems to be working out alright for me. (currently have an i7-9700K and 3080). so im due for a CPU/Mobo upgrade probably next intel generation.
Bruh, upgrdae the cpu
@@erplayerj Next gen CPUs are right around the corner and I'm not really having any performance issues so theres no point.
@@philgoodinc2 k
I think Nvidia hasn't removed the GeForce division yet because they are cautiously optimistic about AI. At the moment, AI is a fad that a lot of companies are getting into; if that fad dies down, Nvidia doesn't want to be stuck.
I went all in on a 4090 build. I'm coming from the 970. I think it's rather overkill for gaming. But for video editing? It's a great rig. If i didn't do editing, I'd probably go with a 3060 or something like that.
I have a laptop with a mobile 3060, and it's awesome for 1080p gaming
I got the 4090 for high refresh rate 4k gaming
Just get a ps5 star wars didnt even work for you guys 😂
@@fabolousjada5070 yeah I got the ps5 and series X for convenience and I don't want to be at my desk 24/7
My 3070 is showing no signs of slowing down. I have a ryzen 7 3800x… and I’m not updating anything. The performance benefits just don’t have real world impacts over what I’m currently getting
Matt is right, that's not a joke. I'm not even looking at current gen cards, I'm eyeing a gtx Titan xp
I am an old man now. I used to buy a new PC every few years C64, Amiga, Pentium 90 and various system to follow. Until some day my most favourite game at the time, Fifa did not release on next gen PC anymore - only on consoles. Since that time I own a Xbox. Guess it is my 3rd or 4th generation now. I still have a fairly good PC, for the internet etc, I could run games on it, but I never bother. It just makes no sense to invest much money in a new PC every few years when your Series X runs almost everything in 120Hz and 4k. Even the games I used to play most, RPGs are not available on consoles. Fun fact I dont play at all anymore since years
I bought my laptop at the end of 2020 with a 2060 mobile and I only use it at 1080 which is the resolution of the attached screen.
I thought about going back to desktop gaming, but a 3070 isn't a massive upgrade and the 40 series isn't really worth it either.
I thought about getting a 3080, but as the around 6th best nividia card it doesn't offer the best value for money.
With the mishandling of the 60 and 70 lines it's hard to find the best 30 or 40 series card if you want to remain with nvidia.
Matt's point is the most important and the shitty release state of games ruins the point of having a new rig. If you can't play last of us stably with an i9 and 4090 what is the point. Also if you aren't playing 4k Ultra Ray tracing you don't need a new gpu, especially with dlss helping prolong the life of your card if you chose to use it.
PC gaming isn't dying, the industry is too lazy to release a functioning game at launch.
I purchased a gaming laptop but thinking about selling it since I still have many ps4 games that i need to play. The laptop will depreciate significantly if i don't use it the next 2 years. I think i better off selling it and play the old games i haven't played and by the time I am finished it is going to be 2030 and then I definitely will need newer hardware
the major component people upgrade first the graphics car, and the value is going down. Most people by in the around the 300 dollar range, and that point has staggered in the performance side. so if they don't have to upgrade there gpu they don't have to build a new pc, only if cpu requirements skyrocket.
You both make good/strong points. Depending on the consumer depends on which one of your arguments it applies to. But you're both correct in your own ways depending on who the focus is on.
Standardisation - Consoles whose only job is to run games great. Removing all hard/software variables developers need to plan for. With full keyboard and mouse support for any game. It’s possible.
Porting issues. Bad driver support. Headaches before even getting the game to launch. That is my issue with not wanting to drop money on a gaming PC. Price to performance is good when and if it works. Looking at the last of Us Part 1 port.
What is good regarding the current GPU market situation is that we can run mostly all games on the market with something like a GTX 1070. Whereas before you had to have the best GPU's to run even current gen games (then) without framedrops below 60 fps. In other words, GPU's have finally catched up with the requirements to run a AAA game with high fidelity graphics. Atleast for singleplayer gamers, you can get away with pretty cheap GPU's, and if you need to have the best performance for singleplayer/multiplayer games, you also have those options.
6:34 I think will actually so the opposite of what Matt says because people will have to save up more to upgrade
Company’s that are buying AI GPUs right now will not do so every year and throw away the stuff from last year, so there is no worry that NVIDIA will ever stop making gaming GPUs, on the contrary they can build better gaming GPUs with the money they make with the AI stuff
I'm running a Ryzen 2700x. I will upgrade. But I'll stay on am4 for now. 5800x3d is pretty affordable right now.
AMD BABY, if a rx6950xt is 600 bucks, why would I want a Nivida?
I upgraded my PSU, CPU, Heat Sink, Motherboard and RAM at the beginning of the year for $1200 (1000 Watt ASUS STRIX PSU, i7 13700K, ASUS STRIX Z790 E Gaming WiFi, Noctua NH-D15 Chromax Edition, G-Skill Trident Z DDR5 5200Mhz) I want a Strix 4090 but the prices are more than all of the other components combined so I'm stuck with my Strix 2080ti for the moment and I don't see anytime in the near future when I will be able to get one if they stay at current prices.
"cause everyones broke!" - haha yeah
THE PROBLEM WITH PC GAMING.
MASSIVELY OVERPRICED.
0 GREAT EXCLUSIVE GAMES.
GARBAGE MULTIPLAYER.
GARBAGE ONLINE.
LOSES BEST GRAPHICS/VISUALS TO CONSOLES EVERY YEAR.
UNOPTIMIZED BUG RIDDEN GAMES.
GARBAGE OS.
THE PROBLEM WITH 🐕💩 CONSOLE GAMING.
YEARS OLD TECH PASSED OF AS NEW.
OVERPRICED GAMES
ALL EXCLUSIVE GAMES GO TO PC.
PAID ONLINE MULTIPLAYER.
LIMITED ONLINE SERVICES AND FEATURES.
DOWNGRADED VISUALS AND PERFORMANCE.
CLUNKY OS FILLED WITH ADS AND POPUPS.
@@mikerochburns4104 THAT OLD MASS PRODUCED HARDWARE CRUSHES PC. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
DESTROYED ON YOUR FIRST POINT. 🤣🤣🤣
At some point Nvidia will make AI only cards, however AI will also be able to generate 3D graphics in real time.
might as well let AI play the games for me so I don't have to be stressed out in a game
LOL this has to be one of my favorite comments I've ever read 😂!
People have been saying PC Gaming is dead for over 20 years and every time there is a resurgance
The AI stuff is literally never slowing down. Its on an unstoppable exponential curve.
I’m upgrading my entire system and so far it looks glorious. The price of DDR5 Memory is cheap, NVME drives are cheap. I’m buying more components than ever.
I'm still using a 2070 and I only do high refresh rate gaming(240fps) at 1080p.
Do you know whay I want.
A nvidia shield with a CPU like o better than snapdragon 8.
That could be greate.
Or maybe a 3080Ti CPU base like for any handheld device.
The reasons why I haven't upgraded is a) No job, b) cuz my 2017 HP OMEN still runs well & c) cuz I'm not ready to switch over to Windows 11 yet. Right now, my current PC isn't compatible with Windows 11, so I'm planning on just running this PC out 'til Windows 10 is no longer supported, then upgrade in 2 years. At that time, this PC will be 8 years old...it'll be time to upgrade anyway.
Weird take, I'm with Matt that I think it' more the game devs and ports that are wrecking the PC player numbers, but also, 2020 and 2021 was in the middle of the pandemic so more people were at home so they would want to buy computer componets if they're gonna stay at home. Might as well do something. Also comparing the marketing stratagy of PC and consoles is kind of weird cause consoles are very diffrent in terms of mindset by both consumers and these big companies. We expect a console to work right off the bat and for a while, like the whole console! A PC is mroe free flowing as in, you can upgrade all at once or upgrade as you go. So consoles will have bigger sales during a certain period cause it is a one and done thing till something breaks or theres a new gen, PCs are more spread out so they of course won't get the massive numbers ever as a console. Also game companies focusing on handhelds is a diffrent mindset than making money directtly from the hardware, you've said it before when a console is sold, usually it's being sold for a lose and is being made up with the game sales. Just cause handhelds are taking off doesn't change that handhelds are consoles that are still bound to this rule. And I don't think game devs will risk going into the handheld market without a solid gaming platform unless they're really stupid.
That's why you don't skimp on your motherboard and power supply, so you have wiggle room to upgrade.
I mean if you're only playing esports games then really there's almost no need to upgrade most of the time unless the game changes graphically or maybe change of engine.
When I built my system, I made sure to get a large enough power supply to last multiple upgrades. Did I need a 1600W PSU at the start? No, but it doesn't hurt having it, and if power demands get higher I won't have to spend even more money replacing a PSU that then if I don't need another PC will just get put in a box and collect dust
Issue with PC gaming is that it is just waiting for scraps from consoles. No longer the driver of innovation, no more Half Life or Crysis, no more revolutionary games that make everyone's hardware obsolete when it comes out.
Nvidia, while making money hand over fist, is still gearing up to produce 50 series and is still launching new software tweaks like DLSS 3.5. I don't think they are getting out of the gaming space.
I think Matt is right about why people are going to continue to upgrade. Especially with chipset changes and the adoption of DDR5, I can see a lot of people with a 20+ series Nvidia GPU or AMD equivalent at least upgrading everything around that card, then snagging a new card when the prices are comfortable for them.
...VR...like Valve releasing a standalone VR headset, that can pair with the Steamdeck, and play the entire Steam Library on a giant virtual 100 inch screen, with no need for a big ol PC sitting on the desk could the catalyst for moving all the stuff we used to do on a monitor into the virtual space...like not right away...but like...VR games are fun, (I'd argue more fun than an monitor...) and having as many virtual screens to do work could be pretty awesome.
Devs using Unreal engine 5 are demonstrating that the only way to get good performance is having a newer card with AI Upscaling (dlss/super resolution). Devs are not optimizing properly and if you look at the steam charts, the VAST MAJORITY of people currently don't have a GPU capable of running those games with AI upscaling (my 5700xt for example) . So if for example I'd like to have very good performance at 1440p in UE5 games, it would cost me the price of a current gen console to target equivalent FPS at lower resolution. I don't really see why I should fork that much money at big tech to upgrade a card that should be running FINE.
Hey I have a good type of tech that you might like I don't know if you've done a video about them but it is cold soundcore great earbuds and speakers
I have a laptop with a 3070 ti and I have no desire to wanna upgrade I can run baulders gate 3 flawlessly so I’m good for another 3+ years
Think the biggest reason for drops in sales was absurd, rapacious pricing. AMD figured it out quicker than Nvidia based on 7700/7800 XT prices
Am I the only one who noticed that when Matt started talking about a “monopoly” the Monopoly Man’s head that was over his had a monocle. This is proof of the Mandela effect.
Nothing beats the feeling of assembling, upgrading and tuning your own rig and then play games on them. Satisfaction that console gamers will never understand. PC gaming for life.
Must be soooo fun constantly trouble shooting all the unoptimized crap coming out lately….
@@jose131991 When you face problems, you learn how to solved it or get around it, and the knowledge afterwards remains with you. Technologies evolved constantly and you have to catch up with them. Consoles won't give you this kind of educations.
@@kluangh1tam and that’s fine and all….but I don’t think many people you buy ANY hardware mainly for gaming is interested in problem solving or developing new skills lol. Gaming is supposed to be a temporary escape from all of that.
@@jose131991 Yeah, that's true. I'm IT technician and that's how I gain knowledge, by owning problematic PCs.
Alot of the AAA games coming out currently are buggy messes that take upwards of a year+ to get functional let alone optimized on pc where as indies (not all) dont require as much hardware to run and are in my experiences alot more fun (hades, badtion, Sakura, ori, hollow knight, etc.) Why would people upgrade parts when the game worth playing don't require it. Just because new tech is released fom amd, nvidia, Intel, Asus, msi, etc doesn't mean people need or want to upgrade. I think that's the part Austin is missing from his thesis in my opinion.
I like Austin a whole lot more when hes not doing that silly voice. "HeY GYUys thIs is AUstin"
Austin just reinforced my thoughts on now being the perfect time to buy pc parts. I just got a new monitor that's higher than 55hz and is 1440p its awsome specially sense I have never had higher than 1080p. That was under 150 bucks too and im super poor now is the time to buy pc stuff specially if you don't even have a P.C. with a apu you can build something for 300 dollars give or take and be able to upgrade it later.
I bought a low profile 1050 TI for an office PC during the pandemic. Plays the games I play on PC well and I have a PS5. I honestly haven't felt a need to upgrade my PC. I honestly think that people don't realize that the reason the PC market has so much growth was because of gamers using their stimulus check to buy gaming PCs lol.
I bought a brand new gaming PC in July for my partner's bday. I don't mess with PC at all, so it better last her a while cuz $1700 is too much to waste lolol. It is 'top of the line' according to her.
I remember 3 years ago my rtx 2070 super was like super high end and now..
I bought a 3080FE at retail price, when it released but mostly because it was managed better in the UK.
I only upgraded because I was running a 4th gen Intel and a Zotec 980 for over 5 years.
When will I upgrade again, maybe in another 5 years 🤷🏾♂️
You guys didn't even bring up resolution. When 4k monitors with high refresh rates become afordable then people will upgrade.
I only have a 1660TI in my PC but I only have a 1080p 165hz monitor so it actually still works fine. If I were to have a 4k 240hz monitor I'm sure my 1660ti would be holding me back so bad lol.
Just watched a video that said console gaming is dead, what the hell am I supposed to do
I know the feeling, man... But then again, I don't think it's all as bad as they say.
i agree a pc today will last you 10 years per upgrade but 10 years ago they would last you a couple years if lucky for real. like newer cars just keep lasting longer then the older models did you can buy a decent 10 year old used car now 20-30 years ago they ran but that was about it.
people are upgrading trust i went to micro center in Boston and it had a 30min wait to check out with many registers open.
it's not that pcs are expensive, it's just consoles are cheap, and of course they are cheaper when they run at 30 fps and have terrible hardware. bought a 3070 some time ago and already thinking about upgrading, in the meantime got a 4060 ti rig for my wife. but even a bad pc is better than a console
im still using my stupid rx 570 but at least its 8gb and can run at medium settings so i guess its ok?
Running a 7900xtx. Love that card.
Most people don't care about upgrading their pc, they will game on the same piece of junk, as they don't have the money to upgrade it to something better. I've been gaming on a 700 series gpu for over a decade.
Austin’s complexion matches his shirt.
Machine learning models will at some point run on dedicated processors. Google uses specific processors to handle lots of their models and not GPUs so I would think if specific models become succesful enough they will also move to dedicated processors instead of keep buying GPUs. But possible companies will try and make new models and thereby need GPUs for that.
Intel and AMD has bought FPGA companies which could be stepping stones to make dedicated processors, which possibly is a way for them to eat into Nvidia’s profit while they also improve their GPUs to be used for models.
AMD earns way more from consoles than PC gaming, they dont seem to care to really undercut Nvidia to really push for more AMD GPUs to be sold (it would also require they make enough GPUs to keep up with that demand).
I waited to upgrade until prices dropped. I had a Ryzen 7 2700x and an RTX 2070 Super and I bought my son the base NZXT prebuilt with a Ryzen 5 5500G and bought him a GTX 1080.
When the 30 series finally dropped to retail price I bought a 3080 12gb model and gave my son my 2070 Super.
I wanted to upgrade to AM5 but I don't have the money to upgrade my CPU, Mobo and RAM so I just picked up a Ryzen 9 5900X. It works with everything I already have and it should last me a while.
You sound broke bro and im a parent myself … time to go to console bro your acting like a man child. Grow up get some consoles and lay off the pc gaming your about 36
I managed to fit a 4070TI in a Corsair 220t case
I think you guys are missing an important point in your argument. In 2020 and 2021 everyone was "working from home" So they had the time to game WAY more. They also could justify the upgrade to the spouse for that 3090 because they were "working from home" lol