Keith "Okie" Nance on VF-43 "Challengers" (Adversary Sqn)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ม.ค. 2019
- “Okie” chats about his time flying the A-4, F-5, and F-16N with VF-43 “Challengers” and what each aircraft was like to fly. He also talks about his time flying the F-14A/B and the differences between both models. (Note that the video quality was lost slightly on Okies side but this is the risk you take with Skype interviews)
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Okie is by far my favorite contributor to this channel
everythng seems so genuine and 'real' in his interviews with almost zero BS or filter.
The Dick Butkus of Tomcat drivers.
Thanks for all your kind comments and it’s great to hear everyone is enjoying it!
The support form you all is very much appreciated.
I bet if you interviewed him again he could fill another 45 minutes with ACM training stories and other anecdotes from his career. A great interview.
Recognized the name from years ago. I was an instructor in T2s in Beeville also. Checked my logbook and I even flew with Keith April '76 from Chase Field out to OLF Goliad for LSO grading of FCLPs. He was the LSO and I was his "scribe" writing in LSO shorthand what he dictated as the students made their passes. He was a good guy!
What a thoroughly splendid chap. another great interview
Cheers Steve
Okie is such a great guy! I could have listened to him at least twice longer. Like with his first session.
There is something about the F-14 pilots that makes them stand out...
Thank you for bringing their stories out.
By the way, there are two kits from Hasegawa that depict one of Okie's Tomcats: one in 1:72nd (E14) and one in 1:48th (PT46). Both of them are still on the market. And they both depict the 202 from VF-31 Tomcatters.
I count about three (3) F-14 Tomcat guys that said they would have loved to fly the F-15C Eagle. I'm sure the feeling is mutual. Great interview!
Well I'm sure they all would have loved a chance to try/fly it out at least once.. But I doubt you'll have anybody tell you they want the Eagle over their Tomcat.
After all they are Navy and that F15c can't land on a carrier.
I know okie, a true professional in the air and around his Navy buds. One of the best!
Jesus I love the way "OKIE" talks about flying. Thank you for another great interview.
Outstanding man and pilot. From another Okie. AZ
Another great interview. Wish there was another Q&A, Lots of good questions for him.
Just watched the interview, absolutely fantastic and huge thanks to ‘Okie’ for being willing to share his stories with us.
Before anybody gets on Okie's case about misremembering the F-14A+/B model engine as the GE F101 (instead of the production F110 model purposely made for fighters), remember that the core of the F110 engine was DEVELOPED from the F101 engine originally developed for the B-1 bomber!
The other parts of the GE F110 are basically-up F404 components = the afterburner, fanblades, and the "rose petal" exhaust nozzles.
The F110 prototype engines that flew in an FSD F-16A and the original F-14B prototype (Tomcat 157986, Tomcat #7; it's preserved on the USS Intrepid in New York City) in 1981 were originally designated GE F101-DFE, DFE standing for "Derivative Fighter Engine."
I could be wrong but I don't think the F110 was ordered for the F-14 until 1984 or 1985, and the first production F-14A+/B-models didn't arrive in squadrons until 1987 and didn't go to sea until 1989! The first fighters equipped with production F110 engines, the Block 30 F-16Cs, didn't arrive until 1986.
They flew the "definitive" F-14B (they called them A+ models until 1991/1992) in 1986 but they didn't go on the frontlines until 1989. One squadron flew A+ models in the first Gulf War (1991) and unfortunately lost a plane to a SAM missile during the conflict. It wasn't lost because of any airframe/engine issues but because the electronic warning gear was outdated. It was Vietnam-era vintage!
The main problem with the Tomcat all along was a lack of political support at the times when it really needed funding to forward with upgrades and safety improvements. Vice-Adm Paul Gillcrist was one of the few flag rank officers who DID support the program when it needed that clout desperately and he probably lost a promotion for sticking his neck out to get the A+ and D-models into the fleet. They still essentially shut down the improvement programs in 1989 and they fought to get 55 F-14Ds produced!
I was wondering about Okie's response regarding the thrust as to whether he was taking about zone 5 afterburn or military? He quoted something like 23,400 lbsf of thrust on the F-14B and from what I can see it is in military power setting, but in zone 5 the F-14 B/D specs say something like 28,200 lbsf - 30,200 lbsf depending on the speed en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_F110
Keith also mentions thrust to weight and EM diagrams. The F-14 B/D had a 1.08:1 thrust to weight in combat configuration ( fuel, sparrows, side winders) as per Grumman. Only F-14A was the "underpowered" less than 1:1 TWR Tomcat. Grumman put 0.89:1 for TWR on the F-14A in combat configuration.
@UCBec0ID0dzI0jO6k1pexkOQ I've heard the same about the F110.
It's definitely a 28,000lb thrust engine -- even the early models.
In the F-16N and Block 30 F-16C that the F-16N was based off of, the F110 NEVER developed full thrust because they were still using the original style F-16 inlet. The highest thrust they got was just under 26,000lbs in afterburner in those F-16s. They redesigned in the inlet for the Block 40 and later F-16 models to allow the F110 to reach maximum-rated thrust. The F100-PW-229 engines in the Block 52 F-16s, btw, use the original F-16 inlet but run hotter to develop their higher-thrust ratings (29,000lb thrust). Block 32 and 42 F-16s use the P&W F100-PW-220E (23,930lb thrust).
The later F110 models are 29,000lb thrust (Block 50 and later F-16s, some F-15 export models) and 32,500lb thrust (Block 60 UAE F-16E/F only).
What I've read is that later in the F-14 service life, they made a number of hardware changes to reduce the maintenance manhours which were bad by F-18 standards. A healthy, less-worn F-18 has a maintenance man hours per flight hour of 18-20hours tops... It may be as little as 12-15MMH for a brand-new plane. The F-14A had MMH per flight hour of close to 70! The F-14D was around 50MMH shortly before retirement.
What they did to reduce the MMH besides the switchover to mostly digital avionics for the F-14D was lock the variable inlets reducing top speed to Mach 2 AND derate the F110 engines.
The F-14 F110 were originally 28,000lb thrust-level but according to what I read they reduced them to 23,600lb thrust (which was enough for general operation) to reduce the wear on equipment. They had the option to lift that restriction and restore full thrust to 28,000lb thrust afterburning. Likewise, the F-14A's TF30 was reduced from 20,900lb thrust afterburning to 17,900lb thrust afterburning.
The TF30 "surge" to 28,000lbs afterburning near Mach 1 was mentioned in one of the oldest F-14 books on the market, Aero Fax Vol 25 by James Perry Stevenson. On the same page, it was also mentioned that the P&W F401 would have been a MUCH better engine but it never went into production. The F-14B prototype only flew about 33-40hours in 1973 and early 1974 before going into storage for 7 years before it was refit with the GE F101-DFE engines.
Meanwhile, the P&W F100 for the F-15 and F-16 WAS also derated permanently. That engine was originally developed for 25,000lb thrust class but never used that because of excessive component wear and higher-than-specified maintenance requirements. It actually fell to below 24,000lb thrust (roughly 23,800lb) and then to 23,500lb for the more reliable F100-PW-220 models that were eventually converted to -220E spec (raised to 23,930 lb thrust).
Worst yet, the original plan for the F100 (in the F-15 at least) was to have a Vmax switch (basically emergency war power) that would make the engine run hotter for higher thrust, up 27,500lbs in afterburner! The switch was good for 100 hours and then the engine would undergo mandatory overhaul. They never used the Vmax switch in the F-15 (but it's still in the legacy F-15 cockpits to this day) and deleted it from the F-15E entirely. Later, P&W offered to remanufacture the F100 engines in the F-15 A and C models to 27,000lb thrust class or offer refit kits to the USAF but USAF never took them up on it!
@@AvengerII So, I guess the Grumman spec rate of the F-14 B/D higher than 1:1 thrust to weight ratio (1.09:1 in combat configuration) was no longer the case once they detuned the GE-F110 engines then (47,000 lbsf of thrust is less than 1:1)? I have always heard the thrust difference between the TF-030 and GE-F110 was huge and that the F-14 B/D was insanely fast at any speed. I guess. the TF-030 producing 28,000 lbsf at Mach 1 is quite useless for ACM since it takes place only at 150 knots to around Mach 0.5 or 0.6. Likewise, I heard the delta configuration for the F-14 gave it very fast roll rate (something over 300 degrees/second) and turning ability, but again it was at very high speed of around mach 0.8.
Those of us that lived through this era recall the GE F101 DFE, as it was also tested in the F-16 early on. It never occurred to me to question his nomenclature for that reason, as he is remembering it from the time period correctly.
I think the main things the Tomcat suffered from were:
* a weapons and fire control system that began development in the late 1950s with heavy, aging electronics that required a separate crew member to operate
* The variable geometry wing (to allow CTOL and long loiter times) which proved to be a maintenance nightmare for the Navy, factoring in heavily on the overall Navy budget
* The TF30 engine, originally developed for the cancelled F6D
It's very difficult to generate and maintain political support for such an aircraft. In the avionics department, the F-15 (which was an older program than the Tomcat), had a radar with more modern electronics that allowed the use of a single pilot, since the processor did the job that a 1950s-1960s RIO or WSO would normally do. The F-14 would get electronics upgrades to its radar and FCS in the 1980s based on the same emerging and developing technologies pioneered in the F-15, but the AWG-9's architecture was still somewhat of an albatross on the whole system, with major reliability issues compounded by cat shots and traps, LRU-based maintenance and trouble-shooting, just a really cumbersome, complicated package to have out at sea. It looked awesome in brochures of the era, but came with a ton of baggage that just wasn't worth the squeeze in the grand scheme.
The airframe was very versatile when ready, but maintainability was still a major hurdle to get over for the hangar deck crews. Of all the maintainers from different fighter communities, I've never heard so many horror stories and lamentations than from F-14 wrenchers.
Okie is great. Has to have hours of just stories with the 3000+ hours of Naval Air. Please bring him back and thanks for the great channel Mike!
I remember him from VF-51 from NAS Miramar and also was on the USS Kitty Hawk 79-80. Was in VF-51 1976 to the end of 1980 he was a good pilot.
Note that the video quality was lost slightly on Okies side but this is the risk you take with Skype interviews.
Aircrew Interview no big deal at all
No one cares. The content quality is off the charts. You are a superb interviewer and to listen to such guests, is truly a treat.
Man, I don't think anyone will even notice. The content is so outstanding your comment about it is the first I knew about the issue.
Not an issue for me, can hear him just fine.
Aircrew Interview the interview is just as quality though!
More Okie!!!!
I served with Okie in Vf31 from 85 until 88. Decent leader, little arrogant but a great pilot.
An arrogant fighter pilot? Surely not! :)
MOAR tomcat driver interviews!! Getting hyped for the upcoming DCS F-14
I believe Okie is talking to them about an upcoming module for it.
Aircrew Interview that’s pretty awesome! His son has posted on the DCS subreddit r/hoggit before and he plays DCS. Hopefully he can get Okie to give it a shot when it’s released this year.
Thanks for this Mike.
What a legend and so humble, thanks Okie
I was in VF-101 with Jk "Okie" Nance in the late 80's. I always remember his long hair 🤪, swagger and respect he was given from everyone. He was always a professional!
Okie is a fighter pilot from beginning to end, great interview, thank
Glad you enjoyed it.
These Tomcat guys are great. You need to interview Hoser
And Dale Snodgrass😊🤟
@@TheDekker99 Yeah, both Snort and Hoser.
But not Boner.
@@dks13827 unfortunately Hoser passed away about a year ago....definitely a legend
R.I.P. Hoser... passed 3-17-2019 one of the best that this RIO flew with.
Another excellent interview Mike. Okie is so good to listen to. Top man with a lot of hours in the Air 😉
Very interesting. I was an A-4 plane captain in VF-43. I was backseat qualified from Naval Aircrew CanadateSchool and the CO let me fly in the 2 seater.
Love this guy, could listen to him for hours.
Great raconteur. Fantastic career. Brilliant interview again!
Great interview, as always !
I Think the discussion about the models near the end is fantastic. What a delight to see "Okie" beam about the various models he has in his collection.
Great interview!
Great work guys,thanks
Great interview. I served in VF-31 from 1973 to 1977 with F-4-J's
D Rubbo thank you for your service! Did you ever get to check out the VTAS helmet sights in the F-4J?
Hope you have a good one.
Great interview Mike once again!👍
Cheers :)
Thanks for another great interview. It was incredible to listen to.
Cheers! Glad you enjoyed it.
@@Aircrewinterview Thanks. Would be amazing to listen to Dale 'Snort' Snodgrass and possibly 'Hoser' Satrapa who happen to be F-14 legends in their own right. Cheers!
Great interview. Really enjoyable
Very,very good interview
Great interview, great aviator, great person. Keep up the good work.
Cheers
Wow what a great guy and a very interesting career. Fantastic interview.
@Firsthgyhgyhuy Lastujhujhuj haha oops fixed 😉
Great interview
I love diecast models except Im an airliner guy and have about 80 1/200 with some 1/72 fighters mixed into that. Great interview
Cheers Dan.
Cool gentleman. Confident yet down to earth.
I’m currently building a new PC flight sim rig for DCS. I’m so hyped up and excited with the upcoming Heatblur F-14B module. While awaiting its release, I figured I’d get lots of BFM practice in the Belsimtek F-5E, flying Red Air, learning more and honing my skills. It’s gonna be fun. 👍
Ahh the nights in key West! Good times and great planes
Fantastic!
More OKIE please!!!!!!
Well done guys!🇺🇸
I found the points he made about flying profiles and knowing what envelopes to fight your aircraft as especially nuanced. So many times we look simplistically at thrust and forget that it isn't static. That the A model had strengths was a revelation. Just as other interviews have pointed out how Speys and J79s had different profiles on the UKs f4s
A young lady at the gym I work at is Aeronautics engineer contractor for the Navy. I put her onto this Channel and she loves it she listens to it as she does her work at the base and even sent a link to her dad
Wow that’s awesome! Tell her thank you for watching/listening it’s appreciated:)
This guy epitomizes the term, Fighter Pilot. Great interview.
Thanks Michael.
This is the first channel I have subscribed too, brilliant content. Any prospect of getting an interview with aircrew that have progressed into a space agency program?
Awesome.
My hero.
wow, my old boss. Spent 4 years with VF 43
I'm in a DCS discord with one of his sons, Okie really has a lot of nice models, seen some pics :)
I wonder if he has or knows anything about Iranian F14 on how the pilots were trained or their performance during Iran-Iraq war...
I asked him about that in a previous interview- he said he largely believed in their performance, but you can check out the previous interview.
@@davidsmith8997 Thank you, David, I just checked out his comment. Very interesting. Cheers.
GE-110 engines and not GE-101 engines on the F-14 B/D. The GE-110 engines made close t 28,000 lbsf of thrust each in full zone 5. It rose to 30,200 lbsf per engine at mach 0.8.
I saw an F 5 flying in Taidong, Taiwan last month. I was surprised to know that Taiwan still flies them.
I was sad they never made the F-20 Super Tiger / Tiger Shark. Massive engine, crazy avionics, crazy weapons, massively increased aero and performance in general . I actually think it would've made an incredible exporter.
I like Hobbymaster diecast models!
I worked with a guy who was a navy corpsman. He got to do an F14 rear seat ride and a carrier trap. He said it was some sort check ride for the pilot to have a corpsman. I don't remember the details other than being so jealous.
Wicked cool.
cfhelmets page appears to be offline..
A real Top Gun ❤
Keith "Okie" Nance is 3rd pilot with Tomcat hours? Dale Snodgrass is 1st, 2 other pilots Brad Goetsch and Charles Wyatt have 4000 hours on Tomcats, I don't count few RIOs with over 4000 hours
Hey Skipper !
I know what he means when he alluded to having to go from the brown shoe Navy to being the Ops officer and being pushed to drive ships. In the Navy, in order to become CO of a carrier you must obviously go through the SWO(Surface Warfare Officer)routine. You'll then be required to get some deep draft time(back in the day AOE's were good training for future CVN CO's), go to nuke power school and then make a tour as an XO. After that...maybe get your own ship. However that means your flying days are essentially gone as from there unless you run aground, you'll probably get your star. IF they're pushing you that far they've pretty much decided you're in the flag pipeline and you either get out or get busy. Lots of pilots chose the "get out" and that's when they go fly one of the three "C's"; Cattle(Pax), Cargo or Corporate.
Wonder if he ever fought the F-106?
Hes right about the F-5 , if you don't see it then it will kill you. I remember sneaking up on this F-15C with my iranian F-5 in DCS because i had seen him with in visual range so i snook up behind him because i had mountain coverage and as soon as i got my plane lined up on his Six i just fired my guns on him and shoot his engines to shit. Also managed to do it a second time lol. It was pretty intense but Fun.
He also said the F5 sucks and in real life, you could beat it with a Cessna 😆
It hurt to hear that as one of the 3 F-5 fans in the world.
00:39 ---- COMEX
Was hoping you could have asked him more details and stories about the F-14B vs the F-16N and how exactly the cat drivers would fight in BFM when they would manage to win against the F-16. Great job otherwise.
He's talked about on this channel. Have a look for a QnA.
I'm probably gonna get this wrong but I think he said he would go high. But that it was tough against the F16. Especially if you weren't Okie or Snort.
ANyone know the origin of his callsign? Always find those stories interesting, even when they're not particularly (if that makes sense)
He's from Oklahoma. It's that simple lol In another interview he saud he got to his unit and thats all they said. "You're Okie now".
You really need to track down an RNZAF A4K driver and get his take as well....
So sad New Zealands Authoritarian Prine Minister has stopped all fast Jets in NZ 😔
@@realMaverickBuckley Do you work hard at being a complete fvcking cretin or does it come naturally to you? The decision was taken by the Cabinet of the elected government. No government has seen fit to change that decision in the 20+ years since. The Prime Minister can't act alone. You are a fvcking moron.
@@realMaverickBuckley What exactly do they need them for?
This guy is so me.....I also went ape shit for planes at an early age built models and also think that riding in the back seat of a T-33 or any jet for that matter would be better than sex ....lol
Obligatory 'first comment' comment
The more l find out about the F14 Tomcat , the more remarkable it is revealed to be!
If F15EXs can be built for $80m, with new systems an F14 could be built for about the same!
Bring Back The Tomcat!
Yeah.. I mean considering the West only gets into maybe 10 dogfights a decade, I'm not sure we need 1000 Gen 5 aircraft. Pack out the bulk with incredible gen 4.5 like the S22 Tomcat and the EX F15 and then keep 250 Gen 5/6 split between the Airforce/ Navy/ Marines.
I should just add my USAF cousin told me the Hawaian national guard fly freaking f22s??!!!!
This guy okie, is amazing really enjoyed listening to him, what a cool guy he is !