Should Nikola Jokic Be Considered Top-10 All-Time?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 เม.ย. 2024
- Is it time to start considering Jokic a top-10 player of all-time? If he gets another ring he should be well in the conversation. 3 out of 4 MVPs (should be four in a row) should also thrust him into the talks with only 1 ring.
#nikolajokic #nbamvp #michaeljordan #lebronjames #goat - กีฬา
Now no, give it a few years. Especially another Title or two.
agreed
I say give it 8 weeks, a second title solidifies him in the top 10. I think he already has a debate now and is at least top 15 all-time currently
@@JSauer21 If he gets this MVP easily Top 20, most likely Top 15 over KD. There is such a hard case to say no to him being Top 10, if he wins MVP and Finals MVP. 2 Titles back to back, 3 MVPs within 4 years. That is insane
Jokic doesn't need more than 2 rings to be in the conversation for the GOAT because of 2 things. 1) It's much harder to have a dynasty now than ever. 2) Jokic has still never played with an active all star. The only player on the nuggets roster with Jokic who was EVER an all star once in their career was a washed up Demarcus Cousins who averaged 7.9/5.3/1.5 in 29 games with Jokic.
You could put MJ/Wilt/Lebron/Shaq or whoever on this nuggets team and they aren't winning more than 3.
Millsap was an allstar but I agree with your point lol.
@123leviathan123 oh yeah, totally overlooked Millsap. He was much better than Cousins for Jokic playing 214 games with him and averaging 11/6/2.
But yeah, I guess what stands is he is still the only MVP to not have an active all-star teammate. And he's about to do it 3 times.
This is a pretty bad take man. Your points are subjective and their is no tangible value to them.
Also the Nuggets are built around joker's playstyle. Saying no other legend could carry this team doesn't really mean anything. I'll also throw in Larry Legend being able to match Joker if I had to pick someone.
@DemonKing-oi4jd Well, the question of "Who is the GOAT?" Is a subjective question, so there's going to be a good amount of subjective reasoning. That's just how these things work.
But there is some objectivity in what I say. He's the only MVP to win without an active all star, and he's done it twice already (likely 3 times after they announce this year's).
As for being harder to win in the modern era, the objective fact is that the salary cap changes have made it more difficult to pay multiple stars with assets remaining to form dynasties. There is also the objective fact we haven't had a repeat conference finals team in 5 years for the first tjme in NBA history. That proves the league is becoming much less top heavy.
@@GTNover
I'm not disagreeing with your points. I'm just saying it is hard to quantify that he doesn't play with an allstar. Is that worth 1 chip, 1 FMVP, a dpoy, scoring title, etc. These accolades are objective.
The same thing applies today that there aren't any dynasties, so is 1 chip now worth 2 10 or 20 years ago?
I agree GOAT is inherently subjective.
If Joker win another ring than he is 100% top 10 of all time
He’s inching there
No. He needs 3 to be put in the category. I think he will be, but we need him with 3 chips to even be considered.
@@davidlee9411 Chips are team accomplishments.
@@ron88303 and every team has a superstar that carries them there
Facts
When Jokic finish...become GOAT
Not yet, but after he wins his third MVP in a few days, he should be considered top-15.
Titles are team accomplishments. Otherwise, just rank the players based on that ... and MVP awards. People want to choose the metrics that support their favorites.
He's already top 15 without it
2x mvp, 1 fmvp, 1 ring, 5x all nba, 4x top 5 mvp voting, avg: 21P 11R 7A on 63%Ts (reg.s) and 27.5P 12R 7A on 61%Ts(playoffs) is not enough for top 10
he is Top 10 center in my opinion. what hurts him is that he wasn't a regular starter till his 3rd season.
@@AVAXII top 10 center 100% but they are saying top 10 all time
@@sensei_... i know. that will be hard for him cause of those first 2 years
He’s top 1 right now! Wait till his careers over b4 making predictions boys
Hope so...rooting for him...but it's way too soon....he needs to accumulate a few more seasons like the last 2
No but he will be like 12th at the worst
How may top 10 all time have 1 ring? Jokic is incredible in his era for sure, but hes playing against a bunch of 6'9 podcasters with so much spacing and low ppg for such a fast paced era. Not a lot of comp aswell seeing as theres only like maybe 5 elite centers out of 30 teams, jokic is doing historic things but I also think this era is historically bad for bigs and officiating definitely "helps" playmaking aswell
2:51 Hey, I'm enjoying this discussion. But Bron did NOT deserve the MVP in 2011 over Rose. THAT is revisionist history. No hate to you all, but Bron and D Rose had comparable numbers, whereas Bron had a better team/more help. Bron had JUST joined the Heatles, teaming up with D Wade AND Chris Bosh IN THEIR PRIMES (and both of which were number one options on their respective teams). D Rose had over-the-hill Carlos Boozer, Luol Deng (who was solid on off/def), Joakim Noah (pre-DPOY and pre-5th or whatever in MVP voting), and KEITH BOGANS (look up that name, haha). Also, despite all that, the Bulls had the #1 record in the NBA and swept the season series against the Heat. And if there's still any doubt, Bron was 3rd in MVP voting that year after Dwight Howard.
OK this is a view from across the pond. Sorry it a bit long but it is what it
I live in the UK and I am back to watching basketball purely and simply because of Jokic.
I have watched another ytuber that occasionally places two ‘position alike’ player’s stats alongside each other but not their names, and he invites guests to pick who they think is the better.
Also something I have noticed is the apparent blinding stupidity of the pundit/general fan who say he has not won enough.
Winning a trophy is a team effort Jordan failed until Scotty and Dennis and a couple of others were added to the team. The proverbial blunt instrument that is Shaquille achieved nothing without the likes of Kobe etc. Some players simply flatter to deceive and by that I mean they look A LOT better than what they really are, simply by where they are.
There are players with full hands of rings that will never ever be mentioned in a “best” question, as they were merely bench players in a successful team. So to use the “well when he has won” has to be one of the stupidest metrics to use.
Dennis Rodman has more rings than Shaq so Dennis is the better player, yes or no????????? (not a good example as I do think Dennis was the better player)
And Dennis must also be way, way better than Larry Bird as Larry just has three rings. Jim Loscutoff must be twice as good as Larry Bird as Jim has twice as many rings.
See how stupid, stupid, stupid the ring count/trophy count is.
Now is Jokic an all time top ten? Without a doubt yes, not only that he is top man in the top ten, if he walked away from the game tomorrow he would still be the best player to date to play the game.
I don’t know its name but the on court off court rate of team scoring appears to be a good metric to judge a players level by, and Jokic is almost double that of the next nearest player. I don’t think there is another player in the history of the game that comes close to how much he affects the game.
MVPs are largely affected by circumstances. LeBron was robbed of five-in-a-row because he deserved to win in 2011 over Rose? After Rose led the Bulls to the best record (62-20) with a team whose second star was Luol Deng, while the LeBron, Wade and Bosh superteam managed 58-24??? How does that make LeBron more valuable?
Non basketball players debating about basketball lol
One of us played lol
He is already didnt you casuals see how hard it is to win an NBA championship without forming a super team let alone win 2 season MVP and maybe 3 if you guys are not putting black people on your pedestals? your taking Jokic for granted coz he is white and always wanting more from the guy when he is clearly bringing us back to watch NBA again after the super team ERA made it unwatchable and what makes him great is he shows up every game, put triple double on your favourite team no drama BS good sport tough as nail and especially plays a fucking team basketball making others even feel significant on the court and didnt god damn care about accolades just want to live his life like a normal dude
Giannis is better
MVP is a popularity contest, and championships are team accomplishments.
@@user-lk1fw1lp8b Toss-up, depending on how you weight the metrics.
Wilt, Jordan, Kobe, LeBron, Kareem, Curry, Russel, Bird, Duncan, Shaq. Who are you gonna remove from that? We haven't even mentioned Hakeem and Magic.
Wilt & Russell are such a different era it’s so tough
It's too soon for this conversation....but if Joker has minimum 4 rings and 4-6 MVP's (finals and reg) and plays at least 8 more seasons....it will an easier task to displace someone....
@@mja4wpif he has 4 rings(probably all of them being FMVPs) and 4 MVPs he is automatically top 2 - 3 lol
@@user-lk1fw1lp8b no shit....im rooting for it....I'd take Shaq and LeBron out of the list above today...but it's not easy to put Joker in there today to replace them for other fans who are less objective and some would push back even if he had 2 or 3
@@mja4wp let's see. Bird has 3 rings(3 FMVPs? I don't know) and 3 MVPs, but he also played defense. So Jokic has to accomplish something which would replace his lack of defense
Where is Olajuwon's rank?
If Jokic wins another ring and gets this year an MVP, then he is better than Olajuwon, or at least at his level.
Jokic more accomplished on offense, Hakeem more accomplished on defense (although defense valued as much today).
@@ron88303 That is OK, I totally acknowledge that, but the point still stands right.
He will be minimum at his level and rank at the top of all time.
When we talk top players Hakeem is not mentioned enough great question. But agree that Jokic is just simply so clear cut the most dominant player right now, a third mvp and 2nd title vaults him
Using NIck Wright logic if Jokic wins his 2nd championship he will be better than Lebron.
😂
Bill Russell had 11 rings in 13 years. So, no one will ever compare to Bill.
tough to argue lol
Bill also only played against plumbers and electricians with a league that didn't have nearly as many teams or equal talent. Wilt and Russell are the most overrated players ever.
@@ImQueerForSayingThisButmj also played against plumbers but he is somehow the goat
@@user-lk1fw1lp8b Not true. From the looks of it, there's more should-be plumbers in the league today than there was back then.
@@ron88303 whoa oldhead, did you forget to take your pills?) Please be more responsible