Marshall McLuhan famously stated that "the medium is the message." I think that liturgical worship is the appropriate medium for the Lutheran understanding of worship as being "bi-directional." By that I mean that God serves us through word and sacrament and we respond with praise and thanksgiving. By contrast, most of American Evangelicalism understands worship to be strictly uni-directional. It is what we do to praise and glorify God, and, they argue, what better way is there to do that than to have a worship team/praise band leading what is essentially a pep rally for Jesus? I don't see how this style of worship could ever be compatible with the Lutheran understanding of word and sacrament.
How do you apply "the medium is the message" to You tube? You tube is a very different medium than say writing letters or something like that. Also, it is interesting to note that Dr. Cooper stated that contemporary worship tends to cater to "what I want" consumer culture, but then ends his video with "if you guys want I can make a video about ... " Using You tube as a primary mode of communication tends to yield teachers and leaders who have to cater to their audience or else lose the audience (generally speaking). Not saying you can't use You tube or can't drive a car or something like that, but the tech can be quite "grabby" and actually become a stumbling block if it is relied upon. Israel was told not to amass chariots or count soldiers, but they were not restricted from having chariots at all or from having a military, because their strength is from God, not man. Jesus rode in boats at times to traverse the sea, but never demanded that anyone build him a personal yacht to make his ministry more effective. We can use what God gives us, but must rely on the Giver, not the technological power of the gifts. ---- This is an admonition, not a rebuke or judgement.
you all prolly dont care at all but does someone know of a method to get back into an Instagram account..? I stupidly forgot the password. I love any tips you can offer me.
@Hassan Harrison Thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and I'm trying it out atm. I see it takes quite some time so I will get back to you later with my results.
I went to a contemporary service at a mega church because a friend invited me. It just didn't feel like church. There was no altar, no cross, no candles. There was loud, mediocre music, bright lights, and a big auditorium. No Eucharist. After about 20 minutes of singing, a man in a suit stepped into the spotlight and delivered a sermon. Then there was a prayer, more bad music and we were done. I am so thankful for my liturgical church!
AMEN to this video: 5 reasons to have liturgical service: 1.Scripture fills the service 2.Heavenly service is liturgical 3.Bond to ages before us 4.Helps us not to base our faith on feelings, but to let feelings rest upon God’s Word and sacraments 5.Unites us with churches in all the world - and young and old Christians.
I was raised by a step-mother in a small Pentecostal fellowship from age 5 to 16. I grew up loving the old hymns and the emphasis on reading the Bible - which I have from my first KJV given to me at Christmas at age 9. My husband (Southern Baptist who had never even visited another denomination) used to tease me about "people rolling in the isles" and speaking in tongues. I NEVER observed these cliches - if people spoke in tongues, they must have at home. But upon my leaving to live with my Mother and sister at age 16, after about 6 months I "felt" I should be in "church". Even though my maternal Grandparents were Lutheran MS, and my mother Christened, none of them were attending or gave evidence of faith. So I took my sister's hand and we walked the several blocks to the nearest church building - a LCMS. First, when we drove past this building which resembled to me a strong, stone castle (or fortress), it spoke to my spirit as a place of continuity. It turned out that it was the oldest LCMS congregations in Topeka, KS St. John's. The first time we walked into the building - I felt (it's so hard to put into words) apart of something timeless. My life to this time, because of the human drama of divorce was one of chaos and turmoil. The worship service was COMPLETELY FOREIGN to my understanding and to my sisters - we both just sat, listened and watched. And I can't say that the members were overly friendly, but smiled and we didn't feel uncomfortable. So we went back - and for teenagers in the 60s, that is proof that the Holy Spirit was drawing us there. Soon we met Pastor Jacobson, who became as a kind male - to whom we could go for counsel although we did have a blood Uncle who was our substitute father figure. We began classes and our Mother began going with us and we were baptized together in 1966. There is much more to the story but isn't there always in our walk with our Lord? Thank you so much for these videos which are very informative.
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6 - It looks cool 7 - Christ & The Apostles had Beards 8 - It's natural 9 - you can stroke it when your thinking about things 10 - More people will listen to you if you have a Beard
1. When you're young, it makes you look older and more experienced. 2. When you're older, it helps you blend in with the younger guys. 3. It helps keep your face warm in the winter. 4. It eliminates my instant 5 o'clock shadow. 5. My wife likes it because it keeps my face from feeling like sand paper.
The Lutheran congregation with which I was involved in the early 2000s was struggling with retention, and not long after I joined, they began to experiment with a contemporary service, which became a very well-attended service, but was a very shallow, feel-good experience. Plenty of young families attended, but few became involved members of the congregation, and few offerings were collected. Even the music-director and band were growing apathetic toward the traditional service, and it took its toll on the congregation. It really is important to maintain liturgical worship, because even a small congregation, if loyal, provides a solid foundation on which to build community.
I am thankful for this channel, I learn so much through Dr. Cooper. I recently found a LCMS church in my town (the traditional, non-liberal Lutheran churches are so hard to find!), and I went to my first service there after months of studying Lutheran soteriology and doctrine. I'm glad to say I actually love it, despite it being completely unfamiliar to me in style. I was raised in a more contemporary setting, so I'm used to hearing about more traditional churches being portrayed as 'cold, dead, and impersonal'. Nothing could be further from the truth. What kind, friendly, warm people there. They came up to me, and helped me navigate my service book through the liturgy (again, completely unfamiliar), and then greeted me and spoke with me for close to an hour afterwards! I love that we sing and chant the rich truths of Scripture and the hymns of history throughout the service! What a teaching tool! Blessings, Dr. Cooper! Thank you for serving in Christ, He used you to bring me closer to the holy, apostolic, catholic church of history, and I feel a deeper connection to them and to Christ through that.
I too came out of Contemporary worship movement, and am glad I did. The liturgical worship form takes frills and distractions in a way that CoWo does not (I wrote a book about it). Good video, Jordan.
Great video! I became an Anglican recently. Liturgy is what drew me to that tradition, while still holding to true, biblical theology. I would love to see a video stating why you're not an Anglican or comparing and contrasting it with Lutheranism.
Fabulous. I was brought up in a non-conformist denomination, so non-liturgical, but conforming to a wooden pattern that those who presided had to reinvent every time. The re-inventions ran from the sublime (rare) to the banal (typical). My faith was reinvigorated in an Anglo-Catholic parish which brought to me the wonder and thrill of liturgy. Your 5 points hit the spot exactly. It was rich in scripture, the dignity of corporate worship, the continual reminders of faith, salvation, confession that was consistent across the ages and the world. Liturgy is marked by its composition by some of the best minds and artists of the word in Christian history. Even an ordinary player like me could conduct a helpful service using the liturgy of the greats.
Yes! We switched to a more liturgucal church when we moved last year- not as lit prob as a lutheran church but still- much more so than the non-denoms we had attended. And I LOVE how much scripture is read! And the beauty of taking part in respinsive readings, and the congregational prayer, and the greetings and benedictions, and the liturgical colors. Love it all! 💚💚
My church is liturgical and I've grown to appreciate this as I've learned more and more about it. Coming out of the Reformed this worship seemed strange at first but over time I've grown to love it.
Awesome thanks Dr. Cooper. I just visited my first Lutheran church here in Memphis TN called Immanuel Lutheran Church. They do have liturgical worship and also a second service called Hosanna worship. The liturgical worship was the one I went to because I wanted to partake in the Lord's supper. It was a great experience and there was alot of scripture in the liturgical setting and I seen first hand the benefit of it. Thanks for what you do.
Being in a contemporary Lutheran church led me away from Lutheranism into Catholicism because they never truly taught pire Lutheran doctrines. I was in confirmation classes for three years and never was confirmed because they abolished their confirmation program. The pastor kicked my mom out because she could not afford to pay tithe as a single mother. Those abuses led me to Catholicism however as I went to university and studied theology for myself I was led back to Lutheranism. The abuses and feelings based worship of revivalist contemporary worship almost caused me to leave Christianity all together. The liturgy brought me back to faith even though it was in Catholicism but through the word of god and theological education I came back to true Lutheranism not contemporary only Lutheran by name.
I was raised in the contemporary nondenom church. I have since run the other way. I like being dressed properly for church. I like hymnals. I like my church coffee to be free. When I think of liturgy, I think of vestibules and fancy phrases we repeat back. I have little interest in that but what I do want is old music, pews, and sunday clothes.
I love the Liturgical Service; that is all my home Church practices. I have attend Contemporary Services in a LC-MS and have even helped play in the band which I enjoyed. I can truly say there seems to be a lot more respect shown during worship in the Liturgical Divine Service and when I travel it is nice to just be able to worship liturgically with my brothers and sisters in familiarity and common unity. God's peace
I really miss liturgical worship. Hoping to return to Lutheran church, if I can find one that is serious about this and not going "blended" or all out contemporary. Thanks so much for this video.
Absolutely a great video. I feel closer to God in a liturgicaI service. I have been raised that way and it’s all I know or need to know. Keep these great videos coming.
I am an Anglican-ACNA- and one of the main reasons is the beauty of the liturgy. I agree with you on everything you say about it. The church I went to previously was pushing to get rid of any music that was more than 30 years old! There was only scripture reading, usually misinterpreted by the pastor, no confession, doxology, or even offering. In regard to music, my liturgical church solved the problem by combining hymns, choir anthems, traditional chants and some contemporary songs using keyboard and other instruments at times. However, the worship band is never front and center and never too loud.
I'm a bit confused. It seems Dr. Cooper is stating that you're either left with "high church" liturgy chez the Catholics, Lutherans, or Anglicans, or you have smoke machines and rock bands like at Joel Osteen's church? Just seems like a false dichotomy to me. Reformed churches are often maligned as being "low church" or not having liturgy, but they are FAR from being anything close to these kinds of modern worship services.
In my Anglican parish, the boomers (my age group) do not like traditional worship. The incense, bowing etc. When I came to the parish, I began moving the parish in a more traditional liturgical worship. That was in June 2020. The result......young people. I have had college students attend and then bring their parents. We added 3 couples in their 50's and 60's. 4 couples with small children and over a dozen college students/high school students. What drew them? Traditional worship. Worship that took them out of the world to the realm of heaven (as described in scripture. The parish was dying. Now it is growing due to the power of God. Also what drew the young men. A Christianity that demands of them.
I like this video and I think that liturgical worship is great but I feel like there’s a big misconception that non-liturgical worship is something that is more modern and fitting to the standards of how humans want to worship , but it isn’t . Idk whether this is just in my church , but we read the scripture ALOT and whilst reading the scripture we’re taught to meditate on it and for me I feel like if God is telling me something so wonderful about myself , if I know about all the miracles he’s done for people and all the miracles he’s done for me , I can’t help but get excited . This is basically the same with everyone in my church so everyone just starts jumping , dancing , repeating and singing these uplifting scriptures . I’d also like to add the fact that in the bible it tells us that the joy of the lord is my strength , so personally for me I prefer non - liturgical worship where I’m free to laugh and just be as loud and joyful as I want because that’s how god makes me feel on a daily , and tbh meditating in a non-liturgical way has healed me from depression , since I was no longer focused on the stress or trying to stay calm , but I started to focus on god and the joy happiness AND peace that he brings me . That’s just my personal opinion , but still a great video , well done and god bless u . Xx🥰🥰
I agree with your statement “Our standing with God is not based on how we feel.” Some of the more liturgical (what some people call “high church”) worship services include at least three scripture readings - one from the Psalms, one from the Gospels and one from the Epistles. I would prefer for non-liturgical worship to include at least that much reading of scripture. In the 70+ years prior to watching your video, I had spent enough time reading/studying the book of Revelation that I was surprised by you saying that the worship described there was liturgical. Your video did have the positive effect of encouraging me to read that book again. I found a reference to white robes but no reference to vestments. The “four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb” - which could be considered a reference to bowing or kneeling. Exodus 19:7 & 8 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him. And all the people answered together, and said, “All that the Lord hath spoken we will do.” And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord. Do you think that was scripted? I don’t. Exodus 24:6 & 7 And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, “All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.” Do you think that was scripted? I don’t. I Samuel 12:5 The Israelites answered, “He is witness.” Do you think that was scripted? O don’t. Verse 19 And all the people said unto Samuel, “Pray for thy servants unto the Lord thy God, that we die not: for we have added unto all our sins this evil, to ask us a king.” Do you think that was scripted? I don’t. In Revelation 4:11, the four and twenty elders are quoted as saying “Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.” Is there any evidence they were told to use that specific wording or were taught to use that wording or were taught precisely when to use that wording? I don’t see such evidence. Revelation 5:9 & 10 And they sung a new song, saying, “Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.” When was this song sung? Or is it being sung now? Or does the word “new” mean it will be sung in the future? And if you think of it as being sung now - and if you think worship services on Earth should incorporate elements of what you think is liturgical worship in heaven - where does this song fit into your liturgy? I don’t remember hearing it during the liturgical worship of any of the several denominations whose services I have attended. In chapter five, angels are described as singing “Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.” They are joined by every living creature saying (singing?) “Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.” George Frideric Handel set these words to music in 1741 as part of his oratorio, Messiah (and I think I would be difficult to persuade me Handel didn’t hear angels singing this before he transcribed it for us mortals) but I’ve never heard it sung as part of any liturgical service. Is Revelation 7:10 part of your liturgy? Or verse 12? Or chapter 19 verses 1 to 3? Or verses 6 & 7? These are legitimate questions. I really don’t know. If not, why not? The Lord told Moses to commission the building of two altars - an altar of incense to be overlaid with gold and an altar of sacrifice to be overlaid with brass. The references in Revelation 8:3 and 9:13 seem to be to the altar of incense. Is there any reason to think any other references to an altar in heaven are to an altar of sacrifice? There are two reasons to think not. 1) When Jesus died, the veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom because the animal sacrifices had met their antitype. 2) Hebrews 10 includes four references to the sacrifice of Jesus being made once for all (verses 10, 12, 14 and 18). If you know of evidence that something similar to present-day liturgical services were being conducted in the second or third centuries, I don’t doubt it. Such services may even have been conducted before the death of the apostle, Paul. (See II Thessalonians 2:7). I don’t consider such evidence to mean that the apostles themselves ever performed ceremonies even remotely similar to the sacrifice of the mass. Not only is there no biblical reference to such a thing, it would have required that they adopt a theology quite different from what I find in my Bible.
Liturgical services have Adiaphora (Processional Crosses, Therible, Vergers, Processional Candles, Communion Assistants, Liturgical Assistants, Ushers, Greeters, etc), these are what I like to refer to as Lesser Divisions of the Office of the Ministry. Having served as an Acolyte, Crucifer, Communion Assistant, Greeter, and Usher in a Lutheran Church (which at that time used the Lutheran Book of Worship (also known as the Green Hymnal) and for a brief time, in the same church my mother and I served in the Worship & Music Committee, a subcommittee of the Church Council.. Part of my.confirmation process included calling two services worth of worship assistants each Sunday/ Additional Lord's Day (eg: Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Eve/Christmas Day, Ascension and what not, selecting a Responsorial Psalm of the Day, etc) as well Processional and Recessional Hymns and Hymns of the day for each Sunday. My mom and I got Easter, Ascension, and roughly the first 8 weeks of Ordinary Time plus Holy Week.
About unity, I have to point out the fact that, in my experience of liturgical services, services are nearly the same within a denomination, but there also are some clear similarities between denominations like for example lutheran, anglican and roman catholic
Since leaving the Roman Catholic church, one thing I have missed is celebrating the life of Jesus throughout the year, starting with the period of waiting and anticipating His coming during Advent.
Liturgical worship is a procession of entering into and receiving Christ in His Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Revelation). Where Heaven meets Earth. The Early Church service (explained in Justin Martyr's apologia, Chapter 67, written 190 AD ) included the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
Great vid. And i take it that it's addressed mostly to non-denominational Christians and/or (loosely) Evangelicals in the US. I think I can agree with most of your takes on that granted that context. But I'll just gently push back that the opposite is also true. I grew up in a Lutheran church in Africa (Madagascar), grew up in a Catholic school Grade 1-12. It's not hard to imagine that these very 5 reasons are why i was and many (at least at one point) attracted to relaxed worship-style no-liturgy Pentecostal inspired liturgy (because it's one), thankfully i changed allegiance now I'm more on the Reformed Baptist side. I guess I'm glad I've seen both worlds and try to see and seek and appreciate God's goodness and Glory in both wherever possible.
Out ELCA church has been doing a blended online service... Before we had to go online (our Ohio county is RED... we had two services . One was contemporary, and one was traditional. It’s a small church, as churches go around here, but it worked pretty well. Now, because of COVUD, the online service is blended.. I like it. Nearly (9 years as a Catholic taught me to love the liturgy... Attending my family’s non denominational church taught me to love contemporary worship music... Not the heavy stuff., though. Music is my primary mode of worship...
Hi! I appreciate many of your videos. I did not come from a liturgically "higher" church (as I understand that EVERY church has its own liturgy, whether they admit it or not. I pastor a somewhat "charismatic" church that has historically had a far more spontaneous worship service but I have been moving toward more of a structured liturgy of our own. Some of this has come from my own study of Early Church history, but more of it is going back to how worship meetings were conducted in the synagogues even prior to Jesus: Corporate Prayer, Corporate Singing, Corporate Reading, etc...but I am using both the Christian and Hebrew holiday calendars together. Good stuff. Question, you have on a blue collared priestly shirt- what are the significances of the different colored shirts that still have the bands?
I hear you on the contemporary service attracts young but I think a liturgical worship attracts the older. Not sure either is right or wrong. Appreciate your video. Been going to a church with my girlfriend that is very liturgical based and I have been struggling. Trying to find the beauty in it.
I’m from what you could call a non-denominational group and in our liturgy, we have the reading of Holy Scripture all throughout the service. We begin by reading a Psalm (the entire congregation reads it btw) and a brief exposition on it, along with an exhortation to worship. Just before Holy Communion as well, there is a time for some of the brothers to voluntarily come forward or stand up from their seats and give a meditation on any passage relating to Christ’s Passion and Resurrection. We then proceed to take part in Holy Communion and then we finish the service with a sermon and closing prayer.
I like your video. You made a lot of good points. I grew up in a Southern Baptist church. They had one style of worship. In my adult years, I began attending a presbyterian church and they were liturgical and I enjoyed it better than any contemporary church service. When I began my Puritan studies I read up on the Regulative Principle. I visited another presbyterian church which holds a strict adherence to this principle and it was simple and wonderful. It was similar to liturgical worship, but they rejected the liturgical calendar as a product of Rome. I would still take liturgical any day over contemporary mumbo jumbo and "emotionally driven worship".
As a convert to Eastern Orthodoxy, I can attest that more and more you f people are returning to liturgical worship. Growing up southern baptist, I felt alienated and judged when I confessed how difficult it was to participate in the "emotional worship" the denomination has embraced. What's my advice for the "contemporary" Evangelical churches losing members? If your members accept the doctrines of another denomination this cannot be helped, but don't be afraid of liturgy... because it just might be what your parishioners are lookout for.
You forgot Didache which gives an outline of a communion service. Probably the oldest one in existence and is the foundation for modern liturgy. The modern communion service has more scripture in it than just the readings as the first part of the Gloria is based on scripture as is the Sanctus and Benedictus. But for a really scriptural service look no further than Cranmer's morning and evening prayer - its full of it. From the psalms and readings to the canticles and many of the responses a fair chunk of the Bible is used. As an Anglican the one thing I do like is that I can attend a church abroad where I don't speak the language and still have a feel for where we are in the service and can join in. That is one of the beauties of Rome and Anglicans having an almost identical liturgy.
Which Hymn Books, Agendas, and Missals do you use in your church, and which version of the Augsburg Confession & Luther's Catechism do you use in your congregation?
This is a related two-part question that maybe you could cover in another video: What is the historical Lutheran view of propriety especially in regards to head covering for women and uncovering for men in 1 Cor 11? AND does the present day understanding and practice match that of the historical church? In short, has Lutheran theology and/or practice changed in regards to this teaching? Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Interesting to read your comment. I left the Lutheran church when ELCA went liberal and now attend a Mennonite church. We follow the use of the women headcovering, as explained in 1Corinthians 11 (the same chapter that encourages Holy Communion). Many years ago ALL women wore hats or something on their heads all the times and to church. That practice began to erode in the first half of the 20th century. Roman Catholic ladies wear a veil in church, Anglican women wear hats to church (not sure about their Episcopal counterparts here in the States), Conservative Mennonite women still retain this Biblical command. It is a great witnessing tool because most people will ask about it, or even ask “I see you are a Christian lady, would you please pray for me?” It is a very visible force for God in the world in which we live. I wore a headcovering when I was still in the Lutheran church and they had no problem with it ( I should hope not, as St. Paul devotes half a chapter to it). I think most women who even know those verses are there would be hesitant to ‘stick out’ or be different or see it as some sort of bondage thing, but hey, we should stick out for God, right? I will always wear a headcovering no matter what church I go to.
My dad lived with me for 8 months after he broke his tibula so took him to Catholic mass and was surprised how much scripture was read. I left thinking which church really believed in Sola Scriprura?
Liturgical worship is the most inclusive type of worship. You can feel you are participating with the congregation, worshiping God even you don't speak their language.
I have greatly enjoyed your videos i have seen, not being Lutheran but studying and having attended liturgical churches, Catholic, Orthodox ect. Can you explain the type of Lutheran you are and what the difference is. I do agree in my studies Lutheranism gets brushed aside when learning of the Liturgical and Protestant side of worship. In Christ,
I think the main issue is that, in our modern times, many many lost people do not feel comfortable at all in a litergical church. But they are often very surprised when they find a regular-looking church with regular looking people. I think litergy is cool, and attractive to me as a Christian. But it can be odd in our time. Not that our core faith should compromise to the ages, but as Paul we should be all things to all men if possible without compromising faith.
I think that’s possibly the case to new converts, but the church shouldn’t be aimed at making new converts feel like little is different from their life prior to God. The church is primarily for developing the body of Christ and creating a holy people. It should be steering far from the modern culture.
This is very strange to hear...I've been to many non-denominational/ contemporary services and events in the past, and have been attending an LCMS church for the past 5 years and I have to say, the reach and power of the spirit in the contemporary worship is something that just isnt there in the lutheran services... Its a much more uniting force at a contemporary event than the lutheran "waiting for it to be over" that I see now and leaves me feeling empty and sad really. I wish Lutherans weren't so afraid of experiencing God in real time and actually letting the spirit lead you.. But based on the comments, I guess to each their own. God works in many ways 🙏
Came out of non liturgical background and never want to leave a liturgical setting. The problem is that where I live most liturgical churches are also mainline protestant ones and they're all into social justice, never talking about sin (unless it's not accepting the stranger or some such thing), etc. We have a couple of Anglican groups in the area who do take God seriously but they're liturgical-lite. You get one scripture reading only and no one kneels for any reason - ever. So many little bits and pieces are cut out here and there. They do have the kickin' worship band and, probably as a result, they have very young people in the congregations. I'm in one of those churches now and not liking it too much.
This is good but it doesn’t go far enough. Liturgy is Scriptural. The paradigm is set in Exodus 24 and culminates in I Corinthians 11. Look to covenant renewal ceremonies in Scripture.
these are all cool reasons to utilize liturgical worship, but I don't see why not to do it some other way. The strongest argument in this video I heard is "There is more scripture in a liturgical service" like yeah, true, uhuh, but if you have a good pastor, I don't see why that is a strong enough reason to not do it some other way.
Yeah, the Ukranian church that is in communion with WELS does a modified Byzantine Rite. It would be worth flying out to Kiev some day just to participate in it once.
@@atanasiogreene8493 I had no idea that there was a Byzantine rite in Lutheran churches ! Is it a modified Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom ? (oh, wait, I see you posted a link in another reply ... I'm off to read that now ... be right back)
I hate modern contemporary worship! Worship should aim at formal reverence, not modern pandering to current culture. Any historic and orthodox worship form besides contemporary are the best forms.
interesting. however there are some "issues" with liturgical worship. 1. "liturgy" is what many churches use to "unify" the people. anglicans and the united church of christ and now methodists. in order to cover up theological differences and issues, they adopt liturigcal worship. if they cant be united in doctrine, then they are united by "tradition" (liturgical worship) you can have an anglican who would have a fit if someone messed with the liturgy, but if u deny the virgin birth or resurrection ah thats ok 2. there is no freedom of the Holy Spirit. some of the BEST worship i have ever experienced is when Gods Spirit flowed in the service and people spontaneously glorifed God and repented of sin. no i am not talking about charismatic worship. 3. liturgical worship can be dead worship. routine makes people both comfortable and bored. some cling to it because they like the familiar rather than the truth 4. we will not be robots in heaven...there will be spontaneous worship 5. i can feel the awesomeness of God in a "high church" hymn played on a pipe organ, but i can feel the same spirit in a little country church with a piano and guitar or "low church" hymns sung acapella. 6. The scriptures only mention, prayers, songs and the breaking of bread for christian worship. the setting for that can be done in numerous ways. God prefers non liturgical worship over a liberal christ denying, bible denying liturgical "mass" or apostacy any day. 7. not judging you or ur intentions.....but God moves in many ways and people worship in many ways. some are still and quiet when His Spirit moves them, others raise their hands and shout amen. God loves it all if it is done out of love for Him. tradition be damned. even if the tradition is "good" repetition has a way of diluting its meaning, and when u grow up doing the same thing over and over, repeating the same "prayers" over and over its just as bad as reciting the rosary or any other words..they lose their intention and meaning when its done from memory. prayers and worship should be communing and having a conversation with our Lord. would u want YOUR children to say the same thing every time they speak to you? just sayin
I feel like a dude in a Zumba class that doesn’t know the moves when I’m in a liturgical service. I’ve been to Lutheran services. It’s awkward, and not pleasant. Not a good experience. That’s just me.
Marshall McLuhan famously stated that "the medium is the message." I think that liturgical worship is the appropriate medium for the Lutheran understanding of worship as being "bi-directional." By that I mean that God serves us through word and sacrament and we respond with praise and thanksgiving. By contrast, most of American Evangelicalism understands worship to be strictly uni-directional. It is what we do to praise and glorify God, and, they argue, what better way is there to do that than to have a worship team/praise band leading what is essentially a pep rally for Jesus? I don't see how this style of worship could ever be compatible with the Lutheran understanding of word and sacrament.
How do you apply "the medium is the message" to You tube? You tube is a very different medium than say writing letters or something like that. Also, it is interesting to note that Dr. Cooper stated that contemporary worship tends to cater to "what I want" consumer culture, but then ends his video with "if you guys want I can make a video about ... " Using You tube as a primary mode of communication tends to yield teachers and leaders who have to cater to their audience or else lose the audience (generally speaking). Not saying you can't use You tube or can't drive a car or something like that, but the tech can be quite "grabby" and actually become a stumbling block if it is relied upon. Israel was told not to amass chariots or count soldiers, but they were not restricted from having chariots at all or from having a military, because their strength is from God, not man. Jesus rode in boats at times to traverse the sea, but never demanded that anyone build him a personal yacht to make his ministry more effective. We can use what God gives us, but must rely on the Giver, not the technological power of the gifts. ---- This is an admonition, not a rebuke or judgement.
you all prolly dont care at all but does someone know of a method to get back into an Instagram account..?
I stupidly forgot the password. I love any tips you can offer me.
@Garrett Fernando Instablaster =)
@Hassan Harrison Thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and I'm trying it out atm.
I see it takes quite some time so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Hassan Harrison It worked and I actually got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
Thank you so much you saved my account!
I went to a contemporary service at a mega church because a friend invited me. It just didn't feel like church. There was no altar, no cross, no candles. There was loud, mediocre music, bright lights, and a big auditorium. No Eucharist. After about 20 minutes of singing, a man in a suit stepped into the spotlight and delivered a sermon. Then there was a prayer, more bad music and we were done.
I am so thankful for my liturgical church!
AMEN to this video: 5 reasons to have liturgical service:
1.Scripture fills the service
2.Heavenly service is liturgical
3.Bond to ages before us
4.Helps us not to base our faith on feelings, but to let feelings rest upon God’s Word and sacraments
5.Unites us with churches in all the world - and young and old Christians.
As one who came out of the non-liturgicals, I love the peace and consistency of the liturgy. Thank you for this video.
I was raised by a step-mother in a small Pentecostal fellowship from age 5 to 16. I grew up loving the old hymns and the emphasis on reading the Bible - which I have from my first KJV given to me at Christmas at age 9. My husband (Southern Baptist who had never even visited another denomination) used to tease me about "people rolling in the isles" and speaking in tongues. I NEVER observed these cliches - if people spoke in tongues, they must have at home. But upon my leaving to live with my Mother and sister at age 16, after about 6 months I "felt" I should be in "church". Even though my maternal Grandparents were Lutheran MS, and my mother Christened, none of them were attending or gave evidence of faith. So I took my sister's hand and we walked the several blocks to the nearest church building - a LCMS. First, when we drove past this building which resembled to me a strong, stone castle (or fortress), it spoke to my spirit as a place of continuity. It turned out that it was the oldest LCMS congregations in Topeka, KS St. John's. The first time we walked into the building - I felt (it's so hard to put into words) apart of something timeless. My life to this time, because of the human drama of divorce was one of chaos and turmoil. The worship service was COMPLETELY FOREIGN to my understanding and to my sisters - we both just sat, listened and watched. And I can't say that the members were overly friendly, but smiled and we didn't feel uncomfortable. So we went back - and for teenagers in the 60s, that is proof that the Holy Spirit was drawing us there. Soon we met Pastor Jacobson, who became as a kind male - to whom we could go for counsel although we did have a blood Uncle who was our substitute father figure. We began classes and our Mother began going with us and we were baptized together in 1966. There is much more to the story but isn't there always in our walk with our Lord? Thank you so much for these videos which are very informative.
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The Lutheran congregation with which I was involved in the early 2000s was struggling with retention, and not long after I joined, they began to experiment with a contemporary service, which became a very well-attended service, but was a very shallow, feel-good experience. Plenty of young families attended, but few became involved members of the congregation, and few offerings were collected. Even the music-director and band were growing apathetic toward the traditional service, and it took its toll on the congregation.
It really is important to maintain liturgical worship, because even a small congregation, if loyal, provides a solid foundation on which to build community.
I am thankful for this channel, I learn so much through Dr. Cooper. I recently found a LCMS church in my town (the traditional, non-liberal Lutheran churches are so hard to find!), and I went to my first service there after months of studying Lutheran soteriology and doctrine. I'm glad to say I actually love it, despite it being completely unfamiliar to me in style. I was raised in a more contemporary setting, so I'm used to hearing about more traditional churches being portrayed as 'cold, dead, and impersonal'. Nothing could be further from the truth. What kind, friendly, warm people there. They came up to me, and helped me navigate my service book through the liturgy (again, completely unfamiliar), and then greeted me and spoke with me for close to an hour afterwards! I love that we sing and chant the rich truths of Scripture and the hymns of history throughout the service! What a teaching tool! Blessings, Dr. Cooper! Thank you for serving in Christ, He used you to bring me closer to the holy, apostolic, catholic church of history, and I feel a deeper connection to them and to Christ through that.
I hear more Scripture read in a single divine service than I have heard in many evangelical church sermons.
I too came out of Contemporary worship movement, and am glad I did. The liturgical worship form takes frills and distractions in a way that CoWo does not (I wrote a book about it). Good video, Jordan.
I too would like to read it. What's it called?
Traditional Roman Catholic here. I agree with this video in total. Those are some very good points you brought up, Dr. Cooper.
Great video! I became an Anglican recently. Liturgy is what drew me to that tradition, while still holding to true, biblical theology. I would love to see a video stating why you're not an Anglican or comparing and contrasting it with Lutheranism.
Fabulous. I was brought up in a non-conformist denomination, so non-liturgical, but conforming to a wooden pattern that those who presided had to reinvent every time. The re-inventions ran from the sublime (rare) to the banal (typical). My faith was reinvigorated in an Anglo-Catholic parish which brought to me the wonder and thrill of liturgy. Your 5 points hit the spot exactly. It was rich in scripture, the dignity of corporate worship, the continual reminders of faith, salvation, confession that was consistent across the ages and the world. Liturgy is marked by its composition by some of the best minds and artists of the word in Christian history. Even an ordinary player like me could conduct a helpful service using the liturgy of the greats.
Yes! We switched to a more liturgucal church when we moved last year- not as lit prob as a lutheran church but still- much more so than the non-denoms we had attended. And I LOVE how much scripture is read! And the beauty of taking part in respinsive readings, and the congregational prayer, and the greetings and benedictions, and the liturgical colors. Love it all! 💚💚
My church is liturgical and I've grown to appreciate this as I've learned more and more about it. Coming out of the Reformed this worship seemed strange at first but over time I've grown to love it.
Thank you for Law & Gospel!
Eastern Orthodox: Can confirm.
Got to tell you brother, I find your videos extremely helpful, I hope that you keep on making videos!
I love liturgical worship services. We have them every Sunday at our church.
Awesome thanks Dr. Cooper. I just visited my first Lutheran church here in Memphis TN called Immanuel Lutheran Church. They do have liturgical worship and also a second service called Hosanna worship. The liturgical worship was the one I went to because I wanted to partake in the Lord's supper. It was a great experience and there was alot of scripture in the liturgical setting and I seen first hand the benefit of it. Thanks for what you do.
Well said pastor Cooper, I love liturgical worship, I find it very peaceful and healing.
Being in a contemporary Lutheran church led me away from Lutheranism into Catholicism because they never truly taught pire Lutheran doctrines. I was in confirmation classes for three years and never was confirmed because they abolished their confirmation program. The pastor kicked my mom out because she could not afford to pay tithe as a single mother. Those abuses led me to Catholicism however as I went to university and studied theology for myself I was led back to Lutheranism. The abuses and feelings based worship of revivalist contemporary worship almost caused me to leave Christianity all together. The liturgy brought me back to faith even though it was in Catholicism but through the word of god and theological education I came back to true Lutheranism not contemporary only Lutheran by name.
My mom was excommunicated cuz she didnt tythe
I love the Scripture, confession, constancy, and Word and Sacrament of the Divine Service. Thank you for the helpful video!
I was raised in the contemporary nondenom church. I have since run the other way. I like being dressed properly for church. I like hymnals. I like my church coffee to be free.
When I think of liturgy, I think of vestibules and fancy phrases we repeat back. I have little interest in that but what I do want is old music, pews, and sunday clothes.
I love the Liturgical Service; that is all my home Church practices. I have attend Contemporary Services in a LC-MS and have even helped play in the band which I enjoyed. I can truly say there seems to be a lot more respect shown during worship in the Liturgical Divine Service and when I travel it is nice to just be able to worship liturgically with my brothers and sisters in familiarity and common unity. God's peace
I really miss liturgical worship. Hoping to return to Lutheran church, if I can find one that is serious about this and not going "blended" or all out contemporary. Thanks so much for this video.
Absolutely a great video. I feel closer to God in a liturgicaI service. I have been raised that way and it’s all I know or need to know. Keep these great videos coming.
I am an Anglican-ACNA- and one of the main reasons is the beauty of the liturgy. I agree with you on everything you say about it. The church I went to previously was pushing to get rid of any music that was more than 30 years old! There was only scripture reading, usually misinterpreted by the pastor, no confession, doxology, or even offering. In regard to music, my liturgical church solved the problem by combining hymns, choir anthems, traditional chants and some contemporary songs using keyboard and other instruments at times. However, the worship band is never front and center and never too loud.
I'm a bit confused. It seems Dr. Cooper is stating that you're either left with "high church" liturgy chez the Catholics, Lutherans, or Anglicans, or you have smoke machines and rock bands like at Joel Osteen's church? Just seems like a false dichotomy to me.
Reformed churches are often maligned as being "low church" or not having liturgy, but they are FAR from being anything close to these kinds of modern worship services.
In my Anglican parish, the boomers (my age group) do not like traditional worship. The incense, bowing etc. When I came to the parish, I began moving the parish in a more traditional liturgical worship. That was in June 2020. The result......young people. I have had college students attend and then bring their parents. We added 3 couples in their 50's and 60's. 4 couples with small children and over a dozen college students/high school students. What drew them? Traditional worship. Worship that took them out of the world to the realm of heaven (as described in scripture. The parish was dying. Now it is growing due to the power of God. Also what drew the young men. A Christianity that demands of them.
Just finding this in January 2020. Very succinct and pleasant delivery.
I have done a complete 180. I miss what i was raised on. 😢 Missouri synod
I like this video and I think that liturgical worship is great but I feel like there’s a big misconception that non-liturgical worship is something that is more modern and fitting to the standards of how humans want to worship , but it isn’t . Idk whether this is just in my church , but we read the scripture ALOT and whilst reading the scripture we’re taught to meditate on it and for me I feel like if God is telling me something so wonderful about myself , if I know about all the miracles he’s done for people and all the miracles he’s done for me , I can’t help but get excited . This is basically the same with everyone in my church so everyone just starts jumping , dancing , repeating and singing these uplifting scriptures . I’d also like to add the fact that in the bible it tells us that the joy of the lord is my strength , so personally for me I prefer non - liturgical worship where I’m free to laugh and just be as loud and joyful as I want because that’s how god makes me feel on a daily , and tbh meditating in a non-liturgical way has healed me from depression , since I was no longer focused on the stress or trying to stay calm , but I started to focus on god and the joy happiness AND peace that he brings me . That’s just my personal opinion , but still a great video , well done and god bless u . Xx🥰🥰
I agree with your statement “Our standing with God is not based on how we feel.”
Some of the more liturgical (what some people call “high church”) worship services include at least three scripture readings - one from the Psalms, one from the Gospels and one from the Epistles. I would prefer for non-liturgical worship to include at least that much reading of scripture.
In the 70+ years prior to watching your video, I had spent enough time reading/studying the book of Revelation that I was surprised by you saying that the worship described there was liturgical. Your video did have the positive effect of encouraging me to read that book again.
I found a reference to white robes but no reference to vestments.
The “four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb” - which could be considered a reference to bowing or kneeling.
Exodus 19:7 & 8 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him. And all the people answered together, and said, “All that the Lord hath spoken we will do.” And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord. Do you think that was scripted? I don’t.
Exodus 24:6 & 7 And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, “All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.” Do you think that was scripted? I don’t.
I Samuel 12:5 The Israelites answered, “He is witness.” Do you think that was scripted? O don’t. Verse 19 And all the people said unto Samuel, “Pray for thy servants unto the Lord thy God, that we die not: for we have added unto all our sins this evil, to ask us a king.” Do you think that was scripted? I don’t.
In Revelation 4:11, the four and twenty elders are quoted as saying “Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.” Is there any evidence they were told to use that specific wording or were taught to use that wording or were taught precisely when to use that wording? I don’t see such evidence.
Revelation 5:9 & 10 And they sung a new song, saying, “Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.” When was this song sung? Or is it being sung now? Or does the word “new” mean it will be sung in the future? And if you think of it as being sung now - and if you think worship services on Earth should incorporate elements of what you think is liturgical worship in heaven - where does this song fit into your liturgy? I don’t remember hearing it during the liturgical worship of any of the several denominations whose services I have attended.
In chapter five, angels are described as singing “Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.” They are joined by every living creature saying (singing?) “Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.” George Frideric Handel set these words to music in 1741 as part of his oratorio, Messiah (and I think I would be difficult to persuade me Handel didn’t hear angels singing this before he transcribed it for us mortals) but I’ve never heard it sung as part of any liturgical service.
Is Revelation 7:10 part of your liturgy? Or verse 12? Or chapter 19 verses 1 to 3? Or verses 6 & 7? These are legitimate questions. I really don’t know. If not, why not?
The Lord told Moses to commission the building of two altars - an altar of incense to be overlaid with gold and an altar of sacrifice to be overlaid with brass. The references in Revelation 8:3 and 9:13 seem to be to the altar of incense. Is there any reason to think any other references to an altar in heaven are to an altar of sacrifice?
There are two reasons to think not. 1) When Jesus died, the veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom because the animal sacrifices had met their antitype. 2) Hebrews 10 includes four references to the sacrifice of Jesus being made once for all (verses 10, 12, 14 and 18).
If you know of evidence that something similar to present-day liturgical services were being conducted in the second or third centuries, I don’t doubt it. Such services may even have been conducted before the death of the apostle, Paul. (See II Thessalonians 2:7). I don’t consider such evidence to mean that the apostles themselves ever performed ceremonies even remotely similar to the sacrifice of the mass. Not only is there no biblical reference to such a thing, it would have required that they adopt a theology quite different from what I find in my Bible.
Liturgical services have Adiaphora (Processional Crosses, Therible, Vergers, Processional Candles, Communion Assistants, Liturgical Assistants, Ushers, Greeters, etc), these are what I like to refer to as Lesser Divisions of the Office of the Ministry. Having served as an Acolyte, Crucifer, Communion Assistant, Greeter, and Usher in a Lutheran Church (which at that time used the Lutheran Book of Worship (also known as the Green Hymnal) and for a brief time, in the same church my mother and I served in the Worship & Music Committee, a subcommittee of the Church Council.. Part of my.confirmation process included calling two services worth of worship assistants each Sunday/ Additional Lord's Day (eg: Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Eve/Christmas Day, Ascension and what not, selecting a Responsorial Psalm of the Day, etc) as well Processional and Recessional Hymns and Hymns of the day for each Sunday. My mom and I got Easter, Ascension, and roughly the first 8 weeks of Ordinary Time plus Holy Week.
About unity, I have to point out the fact that, in my experience of liturgical services, services are nearly the same within a denomination, but there also are some clear similarities between denominations like for example lutheran, anglican and roman catholic
I'm a Catholic and I 100% agree with this.
Since leaving the Roman Catholic church, one thing I have missed is celebrating the life of Jesus throughout the year, starting with the period of waiting and anticipating His coming during Advent.
Liturgical worship is a procession of entering into and receiving Christ in His Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Revelation). Where Heaven meets Earth.
The Early Church service (explained in Justin Martyr's apologia, Chapter 67, written 190 AD ) included the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
Pastor Cooper, please post a teaching about "Judge not". Many people around me falsely interpret it. Thank you. 🙏🏻
Great vid. And i take it that it's addressed mostly to non-denominational Christians and/or (loosely) Evangelicals in the US. I think I can agree with most of your takes on that granted that context. But I'll just gently push back that the opposite is also true. I grew up in a Lutheran church in Africa (Madagascar), grew up in a Catholic school Grade 1-12. It's not hard to imagine that these very 5 reasons are why i was and many (at least at one point) attracted to relaxed worship-style no-liturgy Pentecostal inspired liturgy (because it's one), thankfully i changed allegiance now I'm more on the Reformed Baptist side. I guess I'm glad I've seen both worlds and try to see and seek and appreciate God's goodness and Glory in both wherever possible.
Would like you to do a second video on this subject.
Five more reasons? Maybe.
Liturgical worship is the key to ecumenicalism and a united Christian church.
I agree with everything you said, but please get rid of the skinny jeans. 😁
Out ELCA church has been doing a blended online service... Before we had to go online (our Ohio county is RED... we had two services . One was contemporary, and one was traditional. It’s a small church, as churches go around here, but it worked pretty well.
Now, because of COVUD, the online service is blended.. I like it. Nearly (9 years as a Catholic taught me to love the liturgy... Attending my family’s non denominational church taught me to love contemporary worship music... Not the heavy stuff., though. Music is my primary mode of worship...
Hi! I appreciate many of your videos. I did not come from a liturgically "higher" church (as I understand that EVERY church has its own liturgy, whether they admit it or not.
I pastor a somewhat "charismatic" church that has historically had a far more spontaneous worship service but I have been moving toward more of a structured liturgy of our own. Some of this has come from my own study of Early Church history, but more of it is going back to how worship meetings were conducted in the synagogues even prior to Jesus: Corporate Prayer, Corporate Singing, Corporate Reading, etc...but I am using both the Christian and Hebrew holiday calendars together. Good stuff.
Question, you have on a blue collared priestly shirt- what are the significances of the different colored shirts that still have the bands?
I hear you on the contemporary service attracts young but I think a liturgical worship attracts the older. Not sure either is right or wrong.
Appreciate your video. Been going to a church with my girlfriend that is very liturgical based and I have been struggling. Trying to find the beauty in it.
Great explanations! God bless you!
Thank you, you have hit the nail on the head.
I’m from what you could call a non-denominational group and in our liturgy, we have the reading of Holy Scripture all throughout the service. We begin by reading a Psalm (the entire congregation reads it btw) and a brief exposition on it, along with an exhortation to worship. Just before Holy Communion as well, there is a time for some of the brothers to voluntarily come forward or stand up from their seats and give a meditation on any passage relating to Christ’s Passion and Resurrection. We then proceed to take part in Holy Communion and then we finish the service with a sermon and closing prayer.
I'm here with the home based and I thank you for making these videos -
Thank you so much. I am interested in this topic.
I like your video. You made a lot of good points. I grew up in a Southern Baptist church. They had one style of worship. In my adult years, I began attending a presbyterian church and they were liturgical and I enjoyed it better than any contemporary church service. When I began my Puritan studies I read up on the Regulative Principle. I visited another presbyterian church which holds a strict adherence to this principle and it was simple and wonderful. It was similar to liturgical worship, but they rejected the liturgical calendar as a product of Rome. I would still take liturgical any day over contemporary mumbo jumbo and "emotionally driven worship".
As a convert to Eastern Orthodoxy, I can attest that more and more you f people are returning to liturgical worship. Growing up southern baptist, I felt alienated and judged when I confessed how difficult it was to participate in the "emotional worship" the denomination has embraced. What's my advice for the "contemporary" Evangelical churches losing members? If your members accept the doctrines of another denomination this cannot be helped, but don't be afraid of liturgy... because it just might be what your parishioners are lookout for.
I couldn’t have said any of this better. Thank you for emphasizing how beneficial the liturgy is.
Absolutely agree. He verbalized a lot of stuff that's been rolling around in my head. Great job.
You forgot Didache which gives an outline of a communion service. Probably the oldest one in existence and is the foundation for modern liturgy. The modern communion service has more scripture in it than just the readings as the first part of the Gloria is based on scripture as is the Sanctus and Benedictus. But for a really scriptural service look no further than Cranmer's morning and evening prayer - its full of it. From the psalms and readings to the canticles and many of the responses a fair chunk of the Bible is used. As an Anglican the one thing I do like is that I can attend a church abroad where I don't speak the language and still have a feel for where we are in the service and can join in. That is one of the beauties of Rome and Anglicans having an almost identical liturgy.
Which Hymn Books, Agendas, and Missals do you use in your church, and which version of the Augsburg Confession & Luther's Catechism do you use in your congregation?
Great reasons! Thanks!
What of the reformation service. How reformed people would dissect the Scripture. Verse by verse.
This is a related two-part question that maybe you could cover in
another video: What is the historical Lutheran view of propriety
especially in regards to head covering for women and uncovering for men
in 1 Cor 11? AND does the present day understanding and practice match
that of the historical church? In short, has Lutheran theology and/or
practice changed in regards to this teaching? Thanks for sharing your
knowledge.
Interesting to read your comment. I left the Lutheran church when ELCA went liberal and now attend a Mennonite church. We follow the use of the women headcovering, as explained in 1Corinthians 11 (the same chapter that encourages Holy Communion). Many years ago ALL women wore hats or something on their heads all the times and to church. That practice began to erode in the first half of the 20th century. Roman Catholic ladies wear a veil in church, Anglican women wear hats to church (not sure about their Episcopal counterparts here in the States), Conservative Mennonite women still retain this Biblical command. It is a great witnessing tool because most people will ask about it, or even ask “I see you are a Christian lady, would you please pray for me?” It is a very visible force for God in the world in which we live. I wore a headcovering when I was still in the Lutheran church and they had no problem with it ( I should hope not, as St. Paul devotes half a chapter to it). I think most women who even know those verses are there would be hesitant to ‘stick out’ or be different or see it as some sort of bondage thing, but hey, we should stick out for God, right? I will always wear a headcovering no matter what church I go to.
@@ruthgoebel723 Thanks for your comment Ruth.
I see calvin in the background :o
Patrick Hewitt
Yea he has a beard.
Thank you Pastor.
My dad lived with me for 8 months after he broke his tibula so took him to Catholic mass and was surprised how much scripture was read. I left thinking which church really believed in Sola Scriprura?
Excellent
I prefer liturgical worship but I don't necessarily think that has to be slavishly bound by tradition, singing 19th century hymns from a hymnal.
What about Lutheran contemporary worship present in the LCMS?
As an LCMS Lutheran it is very cringe that there is contemporary worship present in some churches.
Liturgical worship is the most inclusive type of worship. You can feel you are participating with the congregation, worshiping God even you don't speak their language.
For one thing its not overly emotional i feel like a lot of contempory is just a form of intertainment
I have greatly enjoyed your videos i have seen, not being Lutheran but studying and having attended liturgical churches, Catholic, Orthodox ect. Can you explain the type of Lutheran you are and what the difference is. I do agree in my studies Lutheranism gets brushed aside when learning of the Liturgical and Protestant side of worship. In Christ,
Could you or someone share the bible verses that "mirror the worship in the Bible" as you mentioned it?
Jordan B Cooper: liturgical hipster
Nah, he's a "young fogey" (that's good !).
Very well said!
Millennials are still hip?
I think the main issue is that, in our modern times, many many lost people do not feel comfortable at all in a litergical church. But they are often very surprised when they find a regular-looking church with regular looking people. I think litergy is cool, and attractive to me as a Christian. But it can be odd in our time. Not that our core faith should compromise to the ages, but as Paul we should be all things to all men if possible without compromising faith.
I think that’s possibly the case to new converts, but the church shouldn’t be aimed at making new converts feel like little is different from their life prior to God. The church is primarily for developing the body of Christ and creating a holy people. It should be steering far from the modern culture.
This is very strange to hear...I've been to many non-denominational/ contemporary services and events in the past, and have been attending an LCMS church for the past 5 years and I have to say, the reach and power of the spirit in the contemporary worship is something that just isnt there in the lutheran services...
Its a much more uniting force at a contemporary event than the lutheran "waiting for it to be over" that I see now and leaves me feeling empty and sad really. I wish Lutherans weren't so afraid of experiencing God in real time and actually letting the spirit lead you..
But based on the comments, I guess to each their own. God works in many ways 🙏
Came out of non liturgical background and never want to leave a liturgical setting. The problem is that where I live most liturgical churches are also mainline protestant ones and they're all into social justice, never talking about sin (unless it's not accepting the stranger or some such thing), etc. We have a couple of Anglican groups in the area who do take God seriously but they're liturgical-lite. You get one scripture reading only and no one kneels for any reason - ever. So many little bits and pieces are cut out here and there. They do have the kickin' worship band and, probably as a result, they have very young people in the congregations. I'm in one of those churches now and not liking it too much.
The challenges of modern Christianity, I can relate.
This is good but it doesn’t go far enough. Liturgy is Scriptural. The paradigm is set in Exodus 24 and culminates in I Corinthians 11. Look to covenant renewal ceremonies in Scripture.
these are all cool reasons to utilize liturgical worship, but I don't see why not to do it some other way. The strongest argument in this video I heard is "There is more scripture in a liturgical service" like yeah, true, uhuh, but if you have a good pastor, I don't see why that is a strong enough reason to not do it some other way.
Do lutheran have byzantine rites?
Im Ukraine and parts of Eastern Europe they do but not really in the US
Pius72 Aditya en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Rite_Lutheranism
Yeah, the Ukranian church that is in communion with WELS does a modified Byzantine Rite. It would be worth flying out to Kiev some day just to participate in it once.
@@atanasiogreene8493 I had no idea that there was a Byzantine rite in Lutheran churches ! Is it a modified Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom ? (oh, wait, I see you posted a link in another reply ... I'm off to read that now ... be right back)
I hate modern contemporary worship! Worship should aim at formal reverence, not modern pandering to current culture. Any historic and orthodox worship form besides contemporary are the best forms.
Wait, are you a youth pastor? ;)
interesting. however there are some "issues" with liturgical worship.
1. "liturgy" is what many churches use to "unify" the people. anglicans and the united church of christ and now methodists. in order to cover up theological differences and issues, they adopt liturigcal worship. if they cant be united in doctrine, then they are united by "tradition" (liturgical worship) you can have an anglican who would have a fit if someone messed with the liturgy, but if u deny the virgin birth or resurrection ah thats ok
2. there is no freedom of the Holy Spirit. some of the BEST worship i have ever experienced is when Gods Spirit flowed in the service and people spontaneously glorifed God and repented of sin. no i am not talking about charismatic worship.
3. liturgical worship can be dead worship. routine makes people both comfortable and bored. some cling to it because they like the familiar rather than the truth
4. we will not be robots in heaven...there will be spontaneous worship
5. i can feel the awesomeness of God in a "high church" hymn played on a pipe organ, but i can feel the same spirit in a little country church with a piano and guitar or "low church" hymns sung acapella.
6. The scriptures only mention, prayers, songs and the breaking of bread for christian worship. the setting for that can be done in numerous ways. God prefers non liturgical worship over a liberal christ denying, bible denying liturgical "mass" or apostacy any day.
7. not judging you or ur intentions.....but God moves in many ways and people worship in many ways. some are still and quiet when His Spirit moves them, others raise their hands and shout amen. God loves it all if it is done out of love for Him. tradition be damned. even if the tradition is "good" repetition has a way of diluting its meaning, and when u grow up doing the same thing over and over, repeating the same "prayers" over and over its just as bad as reciting the rosary or any other words..they lose their intention and meaning when its done from memory. prayers and worship should be communing and having a conversation with our Lord. would u want YOUR children to say the same thing every time they speak to you? just sayin
Historical interpritation of prophesy like Martin Luther???????????
With the beard you might also get mistaken for an Orthodox priest.
Every church has liturgy. It just means a set way of worship.
Nice hipster glasses
I feel like a dude in a Zumba class that doesn’t know the moves when I’m in a liturgical service. I’ve been to Lutheran services. It’s awkward, and not pleasant. Not a good experience. That’s just me.
If I saw you on the street, I'd think you are a godless hipster.
Lol @ Lutherans worried about dividing the church
There is just none benefits of unliturgical worship