Absolute perfect description of a pilot-operated valve (for either pneumatic or hydraulic). I work with solenoid valves, pressure regulators and pneumatic relays on a daily basis, and you nailed it with a very easy to understand theory of operation regarding pressure differential on either side of a diaphragm.
Spot on tear down. One item of note to those interested, don't ever activate a coil like that with nothing in the centre, the magnetic field created can actually burn the coil. At the very least run a screwdriver up the centre for testing purposes. I stumbled on your channel a couple of weeks ago, absolutely loving your content.
Spot on with spring! Its purpose is to clean the compensating port and it's patented by the company I happen to work for :-) Btw. very nice explanation of the servo mechanism!
I remember Tim Hunkin explaining this incredibly clever device on The Secret Life of Machines circa 1986. I had in fact forgotten about the actual design of the diaphragm so this has been a nice revision session for me. Thanks a lot
Oh yes, yes, yes! That whole "Secret Life of . . . . " series is burnt into my memory. The junk yard, the dirty fingernails, old frayed tweed jacket, taped up specs, . . . incredible. Remember him cutting the metal in a Morris Minor bonnet with a pair of scissors? I wonder if Clive has ever seen the shows? They're on TH-cam, not to be missed.
Robert Horwat Secret Life of Machines was my favourite TV programme when I was a boy. I wrote to Channel 4 about 10 years ago and asked if they would repeat the series but they said no. You can however download all the episodes online :)
Roger Allison-Jones I actually got the opportunity to repeat the scissors cutting steel thing as an employee of Honda some time ago. Just a cheap pair of office scissors through some scrap panel pressing and I cut it right in half. It took a fair bit of effort though but I was just as amazed seeing Tim do it as trying it for myself. Before they uploaded the entire lot of programmes onto you tube I downloaded every single episode from the website so I have the full set. Fantastic show!
al50481 I downloaded them all as soon as they became available. Now on youtube though, whenever I show them to someone I get the same reaction every time. Wonder, amazement, fascination. The seemingly complicated very simply explained. Tim & Rex are all time heroes of mine
Hi Clive, this is fantastic. We have 2 x 12volt solenoid valves on our boat toilets to control the flushing water. These have been a pain of my life for the last 10 years as they are always leaking when the small transfer hole blocks. Thus the water ends up continuing to flow and flooding over the bowl. That little tag on the spring to keep the hole clear is such a simple idea. My valves are made by Jabsco and cost over £100 each. I will be order 2 of these plus 2 more for spares asap. Thanks for the tip. I will post a video of these being fitted and a link to this video on our channel. PS Thanks for all your videos they provide endless hours of entertainment and information for us fellow geeks! 🙂
Your discussion and drawing were very elucidating, many thanks Clive. I construct irrigation systems but haven't yet had need to service a valve interior, and so wasn't aware of the clever force multiplier effect of the diaphragm. I've confirmed that the landscape grade valves I use operate on this same principle (although the solenoids actuate on 24VAC, presumably because of the long cable runs required). I'll have to order a couple of these cheapies to play around with for toy aquaponic systems and the like. Come to think of it, I wonder if the valve may not positively close under low pressure intakes, such as gravity feeds...
Cool, thanks Clive. Been looking at these (among other solutions) for an auto watering setup for a friends allotment. Nice to see inside of one before deciding.
I am thinking of using one of these to water my hanging baskets via a remotely operated hand control. Anyone out there done the same. I would value your reply and comments.
Modern toilet cisterns have fill valves which work with the same method - it means the float can be much smaller as the force required is less than a traditional ballcock and valve assembly which equates to smaller, neater cisterns.
1:10 - KHAAAAANNNNN! Sorry, I had a Star Trek moment. ;-) It seems cheap enough that one probably would not want to disassemble it... And inexpensive enough to not bother rebuilding them if the diaphragm fails, just replace the whole unit for a few bucks. It is, however, a nice little unit to have for a clothes washer water inlet replacement if the original fails... I could also see it applied for light-duty irrigation, hydroponics, water features, even for DIY heat pumps. Quite a nice find, Clive!
Enjoyable and revealing vid again Clive! I actually have an interest and book marked a few of these in my Ebay 'watch list'. My friend who has finished (unlike me) his van/motorhome conversion, uses one of these to remotely dump his 'grey' water tank which, I thought was a very cunning idea! Thanks for the education of its internals!
It has been designed for low pressure which is why it has the extra spring. The important parts are the quality of the rubber and type of steel used in the plunger so it just not rust and jam. Same quality as used in you washing machine at a fraction of the price. but 230/110 volts Ex Factory FOB prices are around $1.50 -$3 on a lot of brands. If your lucky have a look on line you may see the same brand with a different fittings, and just change the inside round. Failure to fill fast is normally a small hole in the rubber part keeping the valve closed. Most were made in Italy a few years ago.
I hooked up one of these to a momentary switch on my Keurig to refill the water reservoir. It works great, but you are correct that it has a small delay to stop the flow.
Hi Clive, I think if you listen carefully to these valves in action on the job, you can actually hear that brief pause as the pressure equalisation is taking place on both sides of the diaphragm when the valve closes.I think it may be a requirement of the water regulations that an instantaneous water shut off on a main is to be avoided to prevent water hammer. The concussive shock can be quite considerable. Keep carrying on!
Oddly enough my old electronics teacher gave me the first explanation of these ingenious valves - I think the context was an automatic bath filler with temperature control. It never happened - we couldn't find low voltage ones at a reasonable cost...and tbh the idea was a bit rubbish... I'd fancy this for greenhouse applications or perhaps a PIR operated anti-cat watercannon.
Built an "automated" watering / misting system using near-identical washing-machine valves decades ago. Two valves, and a pair of bimetallic strip thermostats, along with a simple 556 timer circuit and a pair of relays to handle the 240v for the valves. Built it in 1985?? Still works just fine . . . . . .
Phil S Yeah - that's the same period. we could get scrapped 240V washing machine valves cheaply enough but we weren't allowed to make mains gear in school. Thought about handrolling low voltage solenoid coils but then I went off the idea anyway.. There was a nearby shop that specialised in scrapping old industrial control panels and you could get some super relays, transformenr panel switches and stuff... FWIW timer based watering systems are on the way out, you can buy ones you can control from an app on your iphone - so even on holiday you can busy yourself with domestic chores.
joinedupjon The "old and simple" approach works fine, especially where fault-finding is concerned! The "watering" side was not thermostat controlled - that was a standard "water for x minutes then stop" which seemed to work OK. The two 'stats ran the mister, a cheap bathroom extractor fan, and a solenoid / spring control on the roof vents - I had a BIG (10 x 8) greenhouse and in the summer months, it "needed a little help" with temperature management :-)
That solenoid valve looks almost identical to one I replaced recently in a truly cheap and nasty Montpelier washing machine. The coil had gone O/C, I didn't investigate the reason.
+bigclivedotcom It looks cheap enough to upgrade the coil with something longer lasting (boiler gas valve coils, both low voltage and mains, that should last for a decade) and still be cost effective. The bypass washer is a cheap replaceable component too. They last for many years in toilet ballcocks working at mains pressure.
+simontay1984 If the machine vents to outside, but if it just recirculates air it has a condensing plate or coil which used small amount of cold water to condense the water vapour.
+simontay1984 In some of the combined condensor dryers where the moisture from the drying clothes is collected and pumped out via the drainage system, the cold water supply is used to provide a low level trickle of cold water to cool the condensing surface. In the case of the early Hotpoint units it was just a channel down the back of the machine with a felt pad that had a continuous trickle of cold water running across it. Horribly inefficient and failure prone machines. Particularly the solenoid valve for the condensing flow as it would remain energised for the full drying cycle.
Dedicated condensing dryers are a much better option and do at least put out their excess heat into the room. The combined washer dryers are just not really a good idea in terms of the drum size and technical complexity.
I'd not be surprised if that Brass was DZR brass - allowing for variation in monitor performance, the shade seems "just right". The inline filter is a nice extra too - not particularly fine, but obviously someone's thought about this, and the end product is all the better for it. Chinese quality is RAPIDLY improving, and I'd expect the same transition in perception as we saw with Japanese cars - originally poorly-regarded, now the Industry standard.
New notepad too? Plastic coil vs. your "usual" spring coil? If those self tappers pull out Helicoil them - a far better fixing method, and (because of the finer thread) a much tighter grip.
I use one very similar connected to a raspberry pi that also has one of those soil moisture probes connected to it. didnt trust it on a mains fed water supply so it controls a gravity fed water tank that collects rainwater. Built it to keep my cucumbers watered in the summer but by the time I finished it the summer was over.. always next year...
Mains water pressure isn't really all that much, it varies from around 2 bar to 6 bar, but if you have mixer taps in your home you should be using a PRV to regulate the pressure to around 2.5 - 3.5 bar (or you get leaky taps). A valve like this one would have been designed with industrial use in mind and should be able to handle more pressure than a domestic supply would be capable of. Before anyone bangs on about turning down the stop tap, it's important to point out that pressure and flow are entirely different, they're like voltage and current.
***** See that's what I mean, that's not a pressure problem it's a flow problem. Pressure only exists when the taps are closed and the pressure equalises to the external (to your property) pressure. If you put a pressure gauge on your system and almost fully close the stop tap, the pressure will remain the same as when it's fully open, but as soon as you open another tap you'll get a burst of water, which will then slow to a trickle because the flow is obstructed at the stop tap.
Strider9655 I've seen pictures of metal taps blown off by mains water pressure and people's boilers burst and flood because of it. The self tapping screws holding the fittings on looks like a point of failure.
Coolkeys2009 Not sure what your getting at, I mentioned the use of a PRV, having one of these would prevent most if not all instances of what you describe as it totally isolates the internal plumbing from the outside water mains.
I use a lawn sprinkler valve to turn off all my water in the house until I need it. My water system leaks everywhere and I can't afford to replace it. So, rather than let the house be destroyed and my water bill go to extremes, I put the valve on my water intake. It has worked for several years, now.
tried using these valves for airgun, found out that slightest hit to it could lead to actuation of the valve, thus rendering the gun unsafe whenever the reservoir is inflated up
Damn. I half built a nerf gun mod which revolves around exactly exactly this concept. On one hand you saved me the time i would have wasted on finishing the project before discovering it was fundamentally flawed. But on the other hand i still wasted a bunch of money buying all of the components and ruining a perfectly good nerf gun : (
As long as any simple valve like this is flushed though with clean water I'd think it should be OK. Many drink vending machines use solenoid valves like this for controlling water flow.
bigclivedotcom Hi Clive, I bought one and put it in the pipe to my bath filler. Fitted a 10 minute mcu timer to control it and use an arduino with a bluetooth module and proximity detector so now I can fill my bath with touchless 'swipe' or from my phone. And it shuts off so no need to keep an eye on the water level. I really must get out more! Keep the great vids coming. Love 'em!
No. Officially anything for potable water needs to be WRAS approved. Similar, WRAS approved solenoid valve costs about 10x the one shown in example above. However, build quality is 10x superior, so well worth the money.
Entertaining as always. Question, i was looking online for a atx power adapter that would allow me to go from say the 12v rail and be able to adjust the voltage and current. I know about the little dangerous prototypes board as well as the little boost buck converters but i cant seem to find and dont know why just a box that you plug the 24 pin into and has those adjustments built in. Are you aware of such a thing? If not you should make em:)
Excellent video. Do you know if those kind of valves can be used in a low pressure water system? I need to control the out of an IBC water tank and this might handy, but I'm afraid the water pressure would not be enough to make it fully operational. Thank you.
Nice! Your explanation is so much clearer than the textbooks ..... (or maybe it's just your mesmerising, mellifluous voice .....) What is the thread on the pipe fittings? Could you use 15 mm. olives and compression nuts? Or would it have to be hose connectors?
PixelOutlaw not sure about potato canons, but I've used this exact same valve in a compressed air rocket launcher, and it works well in that application (launch tube is 15mm copper pipe and the rocket was made of foam pipe insulation)
Great explanation. Just to add - no wonder there is a filter and no wonder it is easily serviceable, because (I guess) in case of water not being perfectly clear it could easily clog those tiny holes.
Could Clive be the actor in "The Gods Must be Crazy" film? In the film, he had a Land Rover with no brakes, no windshield and a dead battery. Over-tight pistons would not allow him to turn off the engine. Sounds like him and acts like him. If you have not seen the film, you must! Utterly hilarious.
Hey Clive, did you fit that central heating water filter from your video a while back? Curious to know how much crap has collected inside if you'd consider revisiting it?
I've not done that yet. I actually need to wire the heating back up again. I replaced the entire garage roof earlier this year and had to remove it's cabling from the old joists.
I tried using a solenoid valve like this to control a bucket-fed drip irrigation system, but it was a total fail because these valves require a certain amount of water pressure to work, and the bucket's few feet (less than a meter) of height was insufficient. Looking at your dissection, I guess that's because low water pressure is unable to press open the diaphragm. A motorized ball valve (off eBay) did work for me. They're more expensive, but would be cool if you could tear one apart some day.
Hey Clive, great video as usual. That black and silver screwdriver (that you use), is it a pound shop one, I ask only because I bought one from my local pound shop. When I saw it I thought 'Big Clive has one like that'. I have also paused one of your vid's that have the said screwdriver in it, to get a good look. I think I have the same one as you.
pretty much clones and clones and clones ive bought aset and ive got a few sets of some kingston hyperx ssd's and a few from other random stuff quality varies but all are pretty much the same
We got given a 'freebie' during a presentation at work, branded by a large German electronics manufacturer, looks exactly the same as the poundland one, made en masse in China no doubt and re-branded to suit. It's quite handy though, I use mine all the time.
You could make an auto dog water bowl filler with it having a weight sensor on a mat the bowl is secured to turn it off when the bowl is full or when the dog is present.
Almost every single video on your channel has "Hochland Toast-It" advert in front of it, the 15s skippable kind of ad. I get hungry every single time, seeing the clock being 1:30am doesn't really help the situation :D
Do you have an AdBlock enabled Simon? I have it disabled on TH-cam because they're really not that intrusive. I don't mind depriving the likes of BBC or CNN of a cent or two but we should support the little guys.
JayFe0 I don't think AdBlock affects ads that play before a video, only the ads that appear as overlays on the video, and the ads on the web page. Having said that, the Chrome browser on my Debian Linux machine never ever plays ads before TH-cam videos (with or without AdBlock Plus enabled), and I haven't managed to figure out why! (I have a script blocker too, but leave it disabled by default.)
I'm pretty sure AdBlock blocks them all on Windows Chrome. I never saw ads of any sort on TH-cam until I disabled it a few months back. The unskippable ones are slightly annoying but thankfully don't come up too often.
That device could had been used for a timed sprinkler system to water the lawn or a garden system similar to what some grocery stores would use for spraying mist on vegetables.
That diaphragm looks very similar to the one I have to replace on the inlet valve to my toilet cistern (every few years). I never understood how they worked... I just about get it now, but I think I will have to watch this video a few more times.
Do you know a kind of "fail safe" valve that restricts water flow if a pipe/hose would burst, but allows normal flow for a short period of time if there wasn't any flow for some time?
mark rainford aquastop seems to be a hose in a hose shutoff. if the outside hose gets pressurized it trips a one time valve. Something smarter that just looked for flow or no flow, and shut a valve after x minutes of flow would be best. (a fire sprinkler flow detector, a delay relay, and a electrically trippable valve could be slapped together to do what you want)
mark rainford the problem with those is that "abnormal flow" includes opening a valve all the way to fill a bucket or similar high flow uses (refilling drained water heater). Having a way to automatically shut the water off if there is either a high flow for more than x minutes, or low constant flow for more than y minutes would be nice. I havent seen anything with a time delay for high flows, or time delay with checking for constant flow rate.
Robert Szasz Just looked at details on their website for the Aquastop YS mechanical only. You set the variables time/flow rates on installation, so you set them for what is normal for your situation. It also detects pressure drop across the device. I've never fitted this type, but i've fitted many of the hose-in-hose type, mainly because they are standard fitting on many high-end white goods.
clive i'm not complaining, but i did notice a minor amount of distortion in the audio on this video, i just thought you would like to know that because you were changing up the mic setup in past videos, possible the mic was clipping, but as always a rather interesting video, i really do enjoy you're channel a lot :)
I use one of these solenoid valves connected to a ZJ-LCD-M flow meter on my brewery (real ale). I use it between the HLT and mashtun so I can measure the volumes of water. Works well most of the time but not and again it stops, I think the water gets too hot as the valves are rated at 80 degrees C maximum.
The solenoid changes the water pressure from one side of the diaphragm to the other pushing it open or closed depending on the position of the tiny pin . This works exactly like a washer inlet valve. I have taken many apart and cleaned them when they either dond open or close compleatly ; ( usually what goes wrong with them in washers. Why replace when if you clean out the grit they work like new again , provided lightning or a power surge has not killed the coil ; which could only happen if it was activated at the time of the over voltage . Very unlikely.
thank you Clive fascinating I do enjoy your videos it's like being at school all over again but more interesting. it's about time you blue something up again how much til that coil burns out?
I have only seen a glued in one fail. There would be millions of screwed in ones all over the world. If the outlet has any pressure on it the valve will close the inlet is only a small area so PSI is low.
Project idea for the channel, something I've wanted to do for years! A small version of the Las Vegas fountain, that famous one? ;) Awesome video! Really interesting to learn about how these works! =)
Bellagio? Many of the automated fountains just use a pump per jet for simplicity, except for the high power effects that often use compressed air to purge the water out of an underwater receiver for explosive jets and plumes of water.
Ah yes, the one outside Bellagio =D Oh, didn't know about the compressed air! But yeah, lots of pumps. Of course, maybe not as big as the original, but a smaller version ;) Wouldn't that make a great feature to your back garden? You already have lots of lights, a small Bellagio fountain would be cool too =D Thanks for the reply Clive! =)
Absolute perfect description of a pilot-operated valve (for either pneumatic or hydraulic). I work with solenoid valves, pressure regulators and pneumatic relays on a daily basis, and you nailed it with a very easy to understand theory of operation regarding pressure differential on either side of a diaphragm.
Hi Lake, i need a few solenoidal valve for controlling the Waterflow through pipes. Can you give a link to purchase it in USA?
Spot on tear down. One item of note to those interested, don't ever activate a coil like that with nothing in the centre, the magnetic field created can actually burn the coil. At the very least run a screwdriver up the centre for testing purposes.
I stumbled on your channel a couple of weeks ago, absolutely loving your content.
That characteristic smell you get when you're working on refrigeration plant and someone has left a solenoid coil off it's base....
Spot on with spring! Its purpose is to clean the compensating port and it's patented by the company I happen to work for :-)
Btw. very nice explanation of the servo mechanism!
not in a bad way, a good way, but your videos are so interesting and soothing that a lot of the time i fall asleep watching them lol
Razeth yeah it makes me sleepy to, so soothing!
I remember Tim Hunkin explaining this incredibly clever device on The Secret Life of Machines circa 1986. I had in fact forgotten about the actual design of the diaphragm so this has been a nice revision session for me. Thanks a lot
Oh yes, yes, yes! That whole "Secret Life of . . . . " series is burnt into my memory. The junk yard, the dirty fingernails, old frayed tweed jacket, taped up specs, . . . incredible. Remember him cutting the metal in a Morris Minor bonnet with a pair of scissors? I wonder if Clive has ever seen the shows? They're on TH-cam, not to be missed.
Thank you for sharing that video. It serves to remind me just how ignorant I am despite a fairly broad, but shallow, understanding of biology.
Robert Horwat Secret Life of Machines was my favourite TV programme when I was a boy. I wrote to Channel 4 about 10 years ago and asked if they would repeat the series but they said no. You can however download all the episodes online :)
Roger Allison-Jones I actually got the opportunity to repeat the scissors cutting steel thing as an employee of Honda some time ago. Just a cheap pair of office scissors through some scrap panel pressing and I cut it right in half. It took a fair bit of effort though but I was just as amazed seeing Tim do it as trying it for myself. Before they uploaded the entire lot of programmes onto you tube I downloaded every single episode from the website so I have the full set. Fantastic show!
al50481 I downloaded them all as soon as they became available. Now on youtube though, whenever I show them to someone I get the same reaction every time. Wonder, amazement, fascination. The seemingly complicated very simply explained. Tim & Rex are all time heroes of mine
Hi Clive, this is fantastic. We have 2 x 12volt solenoid valves on our boat toilets to control the flushing water. These have been a pain of my life for the last 10 years as they are always leaking when the small transfer hole blocks. Thus the water ends up continuing to flow and flooding over the bowl. That little tag on the spring to keep the hole clear is such a simple idea.
My valves are made by Jabsco and cost over £100 each. I will be order 2 of these plus 2 more for spares asap.
Thanks for the tip. I will post a video of these being fitted and a link to this video on our channel.
PS Thanks for all your videos they provide endless hours of entertainment and information for us fellow geeks! 🙂
Now i finally really understand how this works. Thank you very much !!!
Your discussion and drawing were very elucidating, many thanks Clive. I construct irrigation systems but haven't yet had need to service a valve interior, and so wasn't aware of the clever force multiplier effect of the diaphragm. I've confirmed that the landscape grade valves I use operate on this same principle (although the solenoids actuate on 24VAC, presumably because of the long cable runs required). I'll have to order a couple of these cheapies to play around with for toy aquaponic systems and the like. Come to think of it, I wonder if the valve may not positively close under low pressure intakes, such as gravity feeds...
Cool, thanks Clive. Been looking at these (among other solutions) for an auto watering setup for a friends allotment. Nice to see inside of one before deciding.
I am thinking of using one of these to water my hanging baskets via a remotely operated hand control. Anyone out there done the same. I would value your reply and comments.
Modern toilet cisterns have fill valves which work with the same method - it means the float can be much smaller as the force required is less than a traditional ballcock and valve assembly which equates to smaller, neater cisterns.
Saw the thumbnail, thought someone invented the smallest flushing toilet.
Dang.
1:10 - KHAAAAANNNNN! Sorry, I had a Star Trek moment. ;-)
It seems cheap enough that one probably would not want to disassemble it... And inexpensive enough to not bother rebuilding them if the diaphragm fails, just replace the whole unit for a few bucks. It is, however, a nice little unit to have for a clothes washer water inlet replacement if the original fails... I could also see it applied for light-duty irrigation, hydroponics, water features, even for DIY heat pumps. Quite a nice find, Clive!
Very Cool Teardown Clive. Keep up the great work. Nick.
Enjoyable and revealing vid again Clive! I actually have an interest and book marked a few of these in my Ebay 'watch list'. My friend who has finished (unlike me) his van/motorhome conversion, uses one of these to remotely dump his 'grey' water tank which, I thought was a very cunning idea! Thanks for the education of its internals!
Very interesting and a nice explanation of how it works. Thanks
Wired up so many of these solenoids, now i know how they work. cheers!
It has been designed for low pressure which is why it has the extra spring. The important parts are the quality of the rubber and type of steel used in the plunger so it just not rust and jam. Same quality as used in you washing machine at a fraction of the price. but 230/110 volts Ex Factory FOB prices are around $1.50 -$3 on a lot of brands. If your lucky have a look on line you may see the same brand with a different fittings, and just change the inside round. Failure to fill fast is normally a small hole in the rubber part keeping the valve closed. Most were made in Italy a few years ago.
I hooked up one of these to a momentary switch on my Keurig to refill the water reservoir. It works great, but you are correct that it has a small delay to stop the flow.
Agree with others here Clive that these are are common in washing machines where feed pipes fix to the rear of the machine itself.
A quite clever design. Thanks for sharing it with us.
I am a programmer. And now I know how solenoid valve works. Thank you! Subscribed.
PS: oh wait, what am I doing?
Hi Clive, I think if you listen carefully to these valves in action on the job, you can actually hear that brief pause as the pressure equalisation is taking place on both sides of the diaphragm when the valve closes.I think it may be a requirement of the water regulations that an instantaneous water shut off on a main is to be avoided to prevent water hammer. The concussive shock can be quite considerable. Keep carrying on!
Oddly enough my old electronics teacher gave me the first explanation of these ingenious valves - I think the context was an automatic bath filler with temperature control. It never happened - we couldn't find low voltage ones at a reasonable cost...and tbh the idea was a bit rubbish...
I'd fancy this for greenhouse applications or perhaps a PIR operated anti-cat watercannon.
Built an "automated" watering / misting system using near-identical washing-machine valves decades ago. Two valves, and a pair of bimetallic strip thermostats, along with a simple 556 timer circuit and a pair of relays to handle the 240v for the valves. Built it in 1985?? Still works just fine . . . . . .
Phil S Yeah - that's the same period. we could get scrapped 240V washing machine valves cheaply enough but we weren't allowed to make mains gear in school. Thought about handrolling low voltage solenoid coils but then I went off the idea anyway.. There was a nearby shop that specialised in scrapping old industrial control panels and you could get some super relays, transformenr panel switches and stuff...
FWIW timer based watering systems are on the way out, you can buy ones you can control from an app on your iphone - so even on holiday you can busy yourself with domestic chores.
joinedupjon The "old and simple" approach works fine, especially where fault-finding is concerned! The "watering" side was not thermostat controlled - that was a standard "water for x minutes then stop" which seemed to work OK. The two 'stats ran the mister, a cheap bathroom extractor fan, and a solenoid / spring control on the roof vents - I had a BIG (10 x 8) greenhouse and in the summer months, it "needed a little help" with temperature management :-)
Great explanation of how the diaphragm works, thanks!
That solenoid valve looks almost identical to one I replaced recently in a truly cheap and nasty Montpelier washing machine. The coil had gone O/C, I didn't investigate the reason.
The coils do fail from time to time, particularly in machines with built in dryers that use a small flow of water to act as a condenser.
+bigclivedotcom It looks cheap enough to upgrade the coil with something longer lasting (boiler gas valve coils, both low voltage and mains, that should last for a decade) and still be cost effective. The bypass washer is a cheap replaceable component too. They last for many years in toilet ballcocks working at mains pressure.
+simontay1984 If the machine vents to outside, but if it just recirculates air it has a condensing plate or coil which used small amount of cold water to condense the water vapour.
+simontay1984 In some of the combined condensor dryers where the moisture from the drying clothes is collected and pumped out via the drainage system, the cold water supply is used to provide a low level trickle of cold water to cool the condensing surface. In the case of the early Hotpoint units it was just a channel down the back of the machine with a felt pad that had a continuous trickle of cold water running across it. Horribly inefficient and failure prone machines. Particularly the solenoid valve for the condensing flow as it would remain energised for the full drying cycle.
Dedicated condensing dryers are a much better option and do at least put out their excess heat into the room. The combined washer dryers are just not really a good idea in terms of the drum size and technical complexity.
Thanks, Clive. I always enjoy your videos and find them to be fun and educational.
Simple and clever engineering, thanks big Clive
I thought these things worked like gate valves but there is a lot more going on. Elegant.
the springy thing on the valve and stem is a anti hydrolock feature.
I was going to say that, too
I'd not be surprised if that Brass was DZR brass - allowing for variation in monitor performance, the shade seems "just right". The inline filter is a nice extra too - not particularly fine, but obviously someone's thought about this, and the end product is all the better for it. Chinese quality is RAPIDLY improving, and I'd expect the same transition in perception as we saw with Japanese cars - originally poorly-regarded, now the Industry standard.
New notepad too? Plastic coil vs. your "usual" spring coil? If those self tappers pull out Helicoil them - a far better fixing method, and (because of the finer thread) a much tighter grip.
I use one very similar connected to a raspberry pi that also has one of those soil moisture probes connected to it. didnt trust it on a mains fed water supply so it controls a gravity fed water tank that collects rainwater. Built it to keep my cucumbers watered in the summer but by the time I finished it the summer was over.. always next year...
You explained it really well, I wonder what the maximum pressure that it can cope with is?
I don't think I 'd trust that on mains water pressure.
Mains water pressure isn't really all that much, it varies from around 2 bar to 6 bar, but if you have mixer taps in your home you should be using a PRV to regulate the pressure to around 2.5 - 3.5 bar (or you get leaky taps). A valve like this one would have been designed with industrial use in mind and should be able to handle more pressure than a domestic supply would be capable of.
Before anyone bangs on about turning down the stop tap, it's important to point out that pressure and flow are entirely different, they're like voltage and current.
*****
See that's what I mean, that's not a pressure problem it's a flow problem. Pressure only exists when the taps are closed and the pressure equalises to the external (to your property) pressure. If you put a pressure gauge on your system and almost fully close the stop tap, the pressure will remain the same as when it's fully open, but as soon as you open another tap you'll get a burst of water, which will then slow to a trickle because the flow is obstructed at the stop tap.
Strider9655
I've seen pictures of metal taps blown off by mains water pressure and people's boilers burst and flood because of it. The self tapping screws holding the fittings on looks like a point of failure.
Coolkeys2009
Not sure what your getting at, I mentioned the use of a PRV, having one of these would prevent most if not all instances of what you describe as it totally isolates the internal plumbing from the outside water mains.
yeah you could use it with an Arduino to make an automated watering system
Much appreciated - I was searching for info on this kind of unit literally just today.
Great video! I have learnt something! Thank you Clive! 🤗
I use a lawn sprinkler valve to turn off all my water in the house until I need it. My water system leaks everywhere and I can't afford to replace it. So, rather than let the house be destroyed and my water bill go to extremes, I put the valve on my water intake. It has worked for several years, now.
Great explanation. Very neat design.
I like your videos it's like watching an episode of Absolutely!
tried using these valves for airgun, found out that slightest hit to it could lead to actuation of the valve, thus rendering the gun unsafe whenever the reservoir is inflated up
What pressure did you test them up to? At what point do they leak?
under 40psi when hit,it leaks,above 45psi ,18 volts is unable to open up the valve
Damn. I half built a nerf gun mod which revolves around exactly exactly this concept. On one hand you saved me the time i would have wasted on finishing the project before discovering it was fundamentally flawed. But on the other hand i still wasted a bunch of money buying all of the components and ruining a perfectly good nerf gun : (
I wonder if the issue could be solved by increasing the strength of the spring that pushes the diaphragm down.
tried it, even 40 volts can't open the valve, hitting it still opens it.
I can think of a few very useful applications for this.
lifts a glass to Big Clive!
Would any solenoid valve be ok for drinkable water or do they make special type for that? I'd use it to fill a coffee maker with water.
As long as any simple valve like this is flushed though with clean water I'd think it should be OK. Many drink vending machines use solenoid valves like this for controlling water flow.
bigclivedotcom Hi Clive, I bought one and put it in the pipe to my bath filler. Fitted a 10 minute mcu timer to control it and use an arduino with a bluetooth module and proximity detector so now I can fill my bath with touchless 'swipe' or from my phone. And it shuts off so no need to keep an eye on the water level. I really must get out more! Keep the great vids coming. Love 'em!
No. Officially anything for potable water needs to be WRAS approved. Similar, WRAS approved solenoid valve costs about 10x the one shown in example above. However, build quality is 10x superior, so well worth the money.
valve should probably be made of drinking-safe materials and be drinking-safe, otherwise might not be a good idea
That was my first thought when I saw this.
Entertaining as always. Question, i was looking online for a atx power adapter that would allow me to go from say the 12v rail and be able to adjust the voltage and current. I know about the little dangerous prototypes board as well as the little boost buck converters but i cant seem to find and dont know why just a box that you plug the 24 pin into and has those adjustments built in. Are you aware of such a thing? If not you should make em:)
there very good to use with a timer circuit as an automatic garden watering system for summer, ive done one in the past
I am a heatpump technician work i whit so many different technical thing's looks a lot of what you do in the Dutch I like your video's
I Wouldnt want to put much pressure through that.. It would blow apart.. I second the request for a work bench tour. Would be cool to see. Take Care..
Excellent video.
Do you know if those kind of valves can be used in a low pressure water system?
I need to control the out of an IBC water tank and this might handy, but I'm afraid the water pressure would not be enough to make it fully operational.
Thank you.
Nice! Your explanation is so much clearer than the textbooks ..... (or maybe it's just your mesmerising, mellifluous voice .....)
What is the thread on the pipe fittings? Could you use 15 mm. olives and compression nuts? Or would it have to be hose connectors?
Would this be fast enough for a pneumatic potato gun quick release?
Well, pilot operated valves are generally slower than direct operated valves, but direct operated valves with high flow rate will be more expensive.
PixelOutlaw not sure about potato canons, but I've used this exact same valve in a compressed air rocket launcher, and it works well in that application (launch tube is 15mm copper pipe and the rocket was made of foam pipe insulation)
i would say its probably aluminium bronze, its both cheaper to make than brass and has good corrosion properties.
Great explanation. Just to add - no wonder there is a filter and no wonder it is easily serviceable, because (I guess) in case of water not being perfectly clear it could easily clog those tiny holes.
Can you do a review on the Thrunite flash lights? They seem very simple but cost a fortune.
Could Clive be the actor in "The Gods Must be Crazy" film? In the film, he had a Land Rover with no brakes, no windshield and a dead battery. Over-tight pistons would not allow him to turn off the engine. Sounds like him and acts like him. If you have not seen the film, you must! Utterly hilarious.
Hey Clive, did you fit that central heating water filter from your video a while back? Curious to know how much crap has collected inside if you'd consider revisiting it?
I've not done that yet. I actually need to wire the heating back up again. I replaced the entire garage roof earlier this year and had to remove it's cabling from the old joists.
Ouch, hopefully it all goes together no problem, especially before the proper cold starts setting in :)
I bought a fernox tf1 off ebay (cheaper than screwfix). My heating system is only 4 years old and i'm amazed how much crap it collects.
Can you post a link for the supplier? Having a problem finding it.
Thank you big clive
I tried using a solenoid valve like this to control a bucket-fed drip irrigation system, but it was a total fail because these valves require a certain amount of water pressure to work, and the bucket's few feet (less than a meter) of height was insufficient. Looking at your dissection, I guess that's because low water pressure is unable to press open the diaphragm.
A motorized ball valve (off eBay) did work for me. They're more expensive, but would be cool if you could tear one apart some day.
Looks like it is some sort of equilibrium valve.
Sorry didn't watch to the end before commenting. You explained it towards the end. It is a equilibrium valve.
are the springs stainless steel? a standard steel spring will rust very quickly.
Hey Clive, great video as usual.
That black and silver screwdriver (that you use), is it a pound shop one, I ask only because I bought one from my local pound shop. When I saw it I thought 'Big Clive has one like that'. I have also paused one of your vid's that have the said screwdriver in it, to get a good look. I think I have the same one as you.
It's from Poundland. It's one of the best of this type of driver I've come across.
I recently bouught one (in red) from Maplin for 99p. It doesn't have a good Phillips range though.
Rabbi Zyklon Brausebadstein
But still, very handy to have.
pretty much clones and clones and clones
ive bought aset and ive got a few sets of some kingston hyperx ssd's
and a few from other random stuff
quality varies but all are pretty much the same
We got given a 'freebie' during a presentation at work, branded by a large German electronics manufacturer, looks exactly the same as the poundland one, made en masse in China no doubt and re-branded to suit.
It's quite handy though, I use mine all the time.
Apart from Elecronics as a hobby my fish pond is my next love and could find many use'es for this little gem
You could make an auto dog water bowl filler with it having a weight sensor on a mat the bowl is secured to turn it off when the bowl is full or when the dog is present.
Did I miss something? Is it connected to the mains power through a power adapter? And how does it know when to go and stop. I'll have to watch again
Almost every single video on your channel has "Hochland Toast-It" advert in front of it, the 15s skippable kind of ad.
I get hungry every single time, seeing the clock being 1:30am doesn't really help the situation :D
I got a Royal Baking Powder recipe, in Spanish (I'm in Spain).
Do you have an AdBlock enabled Simon? I have it disabled on TH-cam because they're really not that intrusive. I don't mind depriving the likes of BBC or CNN of a cent or two but we should support the little guys.
***** It's true. They don't seem to appear as often on my tablet as on my PC.
JayFe0 I don't think AdBlock affects ads that play before a video, only the ads that appear as overlays on the video, and the ads on the web page. Having said that, the Chrome browser on my Debian Linux machine never ever plays ads before TH-cam videos (with or without AdBlock Plus enabled), and I haven't managed to figure out why! (I have a script blocker too, but leave it disabled by default.)
I'm pretty sure AdBlock blocks them all on Windows Chrome. I never saw ads of any sort on TH-cam until I disabled it a few months back. The unskippable ones are slightly annoying but thankfully don't come up too often.
Genius engineering!
I can't find that particular solenoid valve on ebay.
P.P.S. Can you post the link to buy this valve.
Do gas valve diaphragms operate in the same fashion??
That device could had been used for a timed sprinkler system to water the lawn or a garden system similar to what some grocery stores would use for spraying mist on vegetables.
When I lived in England, I had a few just like this. In the states, I can't find one at the same cost with US threads.
That diaphragm looks very similar to the one I have to replace on the inlet valve to my toilet cistern (every few years). I never understood how they worked... I just about get it now, but I think I will have to watch this video a few more times.
Hey big clive!
Can you show us your workbench area that would be cool, i really enjoy your videos they are awesome!
Wow im first to comment!
I do love your videos! Great stuff
Great description mate. I learned something today. i work on the electronic end of things. was great to learn the mechanical side :) cheers
I want to see you use it to make a pulsed fountain display !
Interesting film, thank you, learnt something :)
Thank you for the explanaion. Now I know why they don't work unless there's lots of pressure. I need to open and close a tap that has no pressure!
Excellent explanation. Thanks...
brilliant explaination
Hummmm, Pretty good Mr.Clive.
Do you know a kind of "fail safe" valve that restricts water flow if a pipe/hose would burst, but allows normal flow for a short period of time if there wasn't any flow for some time?
Google aquastop.
mark rainford aquastop seems to be a hose in a hose shutoff. if the outside hose gets pressurized it trips a one time valve. Something smarter that just looked for flow or no flow, and shut a valve after x minutes of flow would be best. (a fire sprinkler flow detector, a delay relay, and a electrically trippable valve could be slapped together to do what you want)
Yes, they also do mechanical only or electrically operated valves that detect abnormal flow rates.Robert Szasz
mark rainford the problem with those is that "abnormal flow" includes opening a valve all the way to fill a bucket or similar high flow uses (refilling drained water heater). Having a way to automatically shut the water off if there is either a high flow for more than x minutes, or low constant flow for more than y minutes would be nice. I havent seen anything with a time delay for high flows, or time delay with checking for constant flow rate.
Robert Szasz
Just looked at details on their website for the Aquastop YS mechanical only. You set the variables time/flow rates on installation, so you set them for what is normal for your situation. It also detects pressure drop across the device. I've never fitted this type, but i've fitted many of the hose-in-hose type, mainly because they are standard fitting on many high-end white goods.
What is the max water temperature this would work with?
clive i'm not complaining, but i did notice a minor amount of distortion in the audio on this video, i just thought you would like to know that because you were changing up the mic setup in past videos, possible the mic was clipping, but as always a rather interesting video, i really do enjoy you're channel a lot :)
Fantastic explination of a solenoid now i know why my washing machine makes a massive thud in the pipe as it stops water entering.
You can get small (
I use one of these solenoid valves connected to a ZJ-LCD-M flow meter on my brewery (real ale). I use it between the HLT and mashtun so I can measure the volumes of water. Works well most of the time but not and again it stops, I think the water gets too hot as the valves are rated at 80 degrees C maximum.
Please make more videos like the LED rose you made recently.
This reminds me of part of the breathing regulator used in scuba gear.
How could we get this to work for a school project
Out of coincidence I've just fitted one of these to the inlet of my loft tank (in series with the ball valve), I'll let you know how long it lasts.
But...Does it work now?
+That Guy no but it does blend though
However much that would tell you... We don't know if it worked before it was taken to pieces.
Does this water solenoid valve require water pressure to operate the closing and
opening of the valve? Thanks
In a way yes. It works by equalisation of pressure on both sides of the diaphragm.
nice
can it be feasible with water boiler
I wouldn't use it with very hot water.
possible PC water cooling application?
The solenoid changes the water pressure from one side of the diaphragm to the other pushing it open or closed depending on the position of the tiny pin . This works exactly like a washer inlet valve. I have taken many apart and cleaned them when they either dond open or close compleatly ; ( usually what goes wrong with them in washers. Why replace when if you clean out the grit they work like new again , provided lightning or a power surge has not killed the coil ; which could only happen if it was activated at the time of the over voltage . Very unlikely.
thank you Clive fascinating I do enjoy your videos it's like being at school all over again but more interesting. it's about time you blue something up again how much til that coil burns out?
Great video, thanks for sharing
I wouldn't want to put too much pressure on that thing, it would rip the screws out of the brass ends.
I have only seen a glued in one fail. There would be millions of screwed in ones all over the world. If the outlet has any pressure on it the valve will close the inlet is only a small area so PSI is low.
Fill it with water cap both ends then throw it in the freezer : ) .
simontay1984 I'm pretty sure that is his intention.
Why?
I'am glad someone got brains : ) .
next video how to fix the freezer lol
+simontay1984 You don't say.
water might push open and coil shuts off?
Project idea for the channel, something I've wanted to do for years! A small version of the Las Vegas fountain, that famous one? ;)
Awesome video! Really interesting to learn about how these works! =)
Bellagio? Many of the automated fountains just use a pump per jet for simplicity, except for the high power effects that often use compressed air to purge the water out of an underwater receiver for explosive jets and plumes of water.
Ah yes, the one outside Bellagio =D Oh, didn't know about the compressed air! But yeah, lots of pumps. Of course, maybe not as big as the original, but a smaller version ;)
Wouldn't that make a great feature to your back garden? You already have lots of lights, a small Bellagio fountain would be cool too =D
Thanks for the reply Clive! =)