Why is there so little MELODY in New Classical Music? || Q&A No.3
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2024
- A new QandA on a range of composing-related topics.
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0:13 How does generative or algorhythmic composition fit into today's music landscape? (ref. Tristan Perich)
2:29 When writing non-functional or atonal harmonies, what considerations affect your note choices? Do you work by ear or do you have a system
5:47 Why is there so little melody in contemporary classical music?
8:11 How can I leave my ego out of compositions?
9:53 What is your favourite music genre/album that is not classical?
12:03 How does the influence of modern life affect your composition?
David Bruce Groanbox Mvt 4: • Groanbox Mvt 4 - Redho...
Reference
Tristan Perich
www.tristanperich.com/
David Lang
www.davidlangmusic.com
Anais Mitchell: NPR Music Tiny Desk Concert
• Anais Mitchell: NPR Mu...
Debussy: The Girl with the Flaxen Hair:
• The Girl With The Flax...
Ligeti: Etude No.2
• György Ligeti - Études... - เพลง
"how do you stop your ego getting in the way of one's music?" ...writing music as your only means of income soon sorts that out.
Peter Phillips
Neil Dawson lol... good point!
Might be a bad idea if you want to keep artistic integrity
... And eating
Neil Dawson If your music doesn't at all abide by any free market pressures at all, you're more likely to produce intellectual diarrhea. If your music abides only by free market pressures, you're more likely to produce intellectual fast food.
Both extremes are bad. Try to find a middle ground if possible. Having disposable personal income is a good thing, having none at all could be bad, being entirely unconcerned with finances could also be bad.
So true, this youtuber thinks he can get away with saying waht is music, and what is not, shame on him.
Wow David, thanks so much for the shout out! I need to dig into some of your work as well.
honoured to have you here Josh! As I said, huge fan!
For some reason many young composers think it's not hip to write a melody. It's actually really hard to come up with a great one.
I'm always baffled that harmony and structure is usually the biggest topic in music schools, but no one really ever analyzes what makes a good melody. It is indeed difficult to write a good one
@@karolakkolo123 I agree - I teach composition and focus very strongly on melody for that reason. To me, it's the crucial part of music (though one can have rhythm instead sometimes).
@@topologyrob exactly if someone composes using only chords, one could hardly consider that person an expert, it's the memorable tunes and subversion of established forms that make for music that's unique and worth listening to.
As a composer who mainly writes melodically, I completely agree. Takes me ages to write a decent melody
My grandmother once told me that the problem she had with "plinky plonk" music (as she called it) was that "there's almost always no tune, something to whistle." Great video!
or in other terms, filler music.
One reason some modern composition has little by way of melody: When I was studying composing in conservatory, my professors were constantly trying to push me to write music that was less melodic. I unlearned that again after graduation, but my impression was that less melodic music tended to win the prizes and the accolades and thus what the "market" wanted.
That was true even among some of the relatively hip local contemporary classical music ensembles.
This was my experience in school as well. I wrote a lot of music that sounded like film or video game music, which for some reason made it "lesser" music.
SO TRUE!!!!!! It turned me off from going to a music school.
Yep. It's anti-western postmodern thinking. Interesting how they haven't yet noticed that their newfangled approach doesn't resonate the human soul like the lively, expressive, conversational, dynamic, coherent music of the past. Nobody really likes the new classical, it's just high fashion. To see my point, check the most popular classical radio station in North America, wqxr new york classical radio. They play Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and Haydn nonstop. That is the REAL market composers should be targeting.
"anti-western"... that seems unlikely, given that Eastern music and African music and Polynesian music and every single other music tradition that I'm aware of has melody.
@@DeGuerre That is true, but I think I think these modern composers have western classical tradition specifically in mind, since they still largely use western instrumentation.
Keep on being nerdy! (Intellectual, interesting, scientific, informative).
(ignorant, biased, numb headed, stupid)
I wouldn't call it nerdy - no more than I would, say, David Attenborough's work.
It's just rare to see presenters these days who don't talk down to the public.
In my experience, the best way to get the ego out of the music, is to keep making music so much, that it no longer becomes something you think too much about. You just do it. This applies to everything, by the way.
The introduction to Igor Stravinsky's Rite of Spring has a pretty interesting trick for its atonality. What happens is that the first part of the first bar of the opening bassoon solo lands on an A with a fermata marking, in which can subliminally imply that we're in A Minor. After the second try, it's interrupted by an F Horn playing a G# (G# in the F Horn is the same as a C# on an instrument in C). This creates a rather dissonant minor 6th interval. The bassoon continues its solo and the F Horn rises to an A (D for instrument in C). When the bassoon tries to land on A again, the F Horn drops once more (on the exact same beat, mind you) to that G#. That A doesn't feel like a resolution for the rest of the intro (except for some very small amounts of relief that are mostly cut short due to underlying tones that play against that A). Keeping this in mind, atonality can be accomplished through cleverly disrupting resolution.
I'm grateful that Beethoven and Brahms weren't as concerned with "intellectual integrity" as contemporary composers are... (7:00)
moreover they aren't applying much intellect. They think they are being clever but in reality simply demonstrating what a poor grasp of math and acoustics they have.
@@edwardgivenscomposer and music is about math?
@@oscararend5943 it is when we are pretending to be clever about it, which face it is all the poor little sad sacks who claim to write atonal music have left. Divide the octave into 12 parts and you WILL arrive at the dreaded tonic dominant relationship sooner or later or go through conniption fits. Because of math - yes. If the dubious goal is to AVOID tonality simply split the octave into 11 parts, or 13. Done! The question is WHY? Don't get me wrong I like a bit of atonal music, but I find it delicious and ironic that the one thing it's promoters cling to - the supposed "complexity" turns out to be a big farce . Or did Schoenberg really discover something to "guarantee the supremacy of German music for 1000 years"? I'm sorry but it's a bit like reading a long boring essay where the writer missed a logical fallacy in the first paragraph. (Ayn Rand springs to mind) Sophistry doesn't make great art. That said sometimes a misconceived technique can still produce great music. Webern for example. But that's sensitive intuition. Now that I think about it - what is a musician? An intuitive mathematician, among other things. Every time you sing, or say, tune your guitar, you are dealing with vibration of the air at certain frequencies. For example a fifth vibrates at 1.5X the root, or a ratio of 3:2. We don't think about it intellectually, we just do it. Sorry for the long answer and of course it's not just about math.
It's so funny, I would have used the same "intellectual integrity" arguments in the same way David Bruce used them, to argue for the exact opposite! I value long melodic lines and logical melodic developments (as opposed to a pressed wood board of short motifs) precisely because of the internal coherence and "intellectual integrity"!
@@edwardgivenscomposer I could probably listen to you talk for hours
as somebody who got into "nerdy" music just a few years ago, I immensely respect your videos. Great musical knowledge and interesting topics explained in a friendly, non-condescending way is the way to go. power to the nerds!
My problem with many TH-camrs is that they hold back information, and treat people like children. Bring on the intelligence (it's 2018 and moving fast) It's better to see a video where you understand nothing, than understanding everything. That way you know you've got work to do and have specific things to research until you understand the entire video dialogue.
Well said!
+
I hope you aren't trying to speak for everyone on TH-cam because I already know most of the things he talks about and when I don't I immediately get it. Why? Because I have put in the work as a mucisian.
Hans Memling the point, surely, is to be intelligent and challenging, but also as expansive and as accessible as the material allows. There's a spectrum of understanding out there, indeed, many different ways of engaging with music. It's possible that even you might not grasp something that someone else does grasp; humility and openness are important in music, as well as mastery and pride.
@@1spitfirepilot 1 are you suggesting I lack humility? If so what part of what I said gave you that impression?
2 you are agreeing with me in case you haven't noticed. I called him out on his blanket statement that other youtubers make unintelligent content and that this channel is they only one that does. I simply told him that he cannot speak for everyone and I gave myself as an example.
3 you said' the point is...' point of what and who?
I'm glad you mentioned early Joni Mitchell. I think her melodic style is very unique and her guitar writing beautiful. I like her music from different periods too.
I've always felt that regardless of the virtical environment melodicism can inhabit that place. Also that melody is an inspired thing that can in the moment at least transcend all. Maybe it's an improvisers reality. I like the idea of broad melodies in really diabolical scientificish environments.
I am beyond thrilled to discover that Maestro Bruce is a funk-head!
I've always had a tough time trying to reconcile, or figure out the connections between, my love for classical and funky music, because they are just so different. I wrote a funk _fugue_ at one point, so help me. I started to accept that maybe I was just irreconcilably weird, but then I discovered Vulfpeck, and it was like finding kindred spirits in musical outlook I thought I was totally alone in entertaining.
And now one of the music educators and contemporary composers I have the greatest respect for drops the ball, too. The funky, funky ball. Man, I am having the greatest day. Thanks David! Looking forward to new videos on any topic of your choosing.
Ah, Vulfpeck. Who doesn't love Joe Dart on the fender bass
Some interesting ideas, especially regarding EGO. Being too nervous while playing a concert is a distraction. It makes you ask "If I'm scared of making mistakes, who am I trying to impress? Do they really care? What am I doing here ? (it's certainly NOT for the MONEY)." Why we play?...because it feels good. Don't worry, if they don't like you they won't book you & you won't have to do it again.
I found when I impatiently wrote some pre-classical music that I naturally went to by nature that I want to use chords and interesting phrases of singing or singing-like instrumentalism and I listen to contemporary classical music and its just sequences of effects, never a melody being rigorously explored. I find as a happy amateur that the act of writing that other kind of classical music is like doing the rhythm guitar part of a pop song out in front without melody. You should be equally good at both. Classical needs melody.
Adhering to arbitrary rules/patterns when writing non-functional stuff is one of my favorite things to do when out of ideas. A lot of the time, it sounds organized but bad, but there's very often little sections, rearrangements and additions/ommisions that get me going to write more freely.
yah, I agree nerdier = more interresting.. go with the metrics and let your inner geek run wild!
seriously: I enjoy your videos, there's always new stuff to discover and stimulating thoughts toponder. (:
As usual people miss the point. We need all the colors of the rainbow to blend them in infinite ways. Thanks for this informative video.
I really love music so much. I cried seeing this video. Thanks for reminding me of what's exciting, and sharing your thoughts with us in such a warm, intelligent way!
These videos are just gem after gem, I really appreciate your very clear dedication to curiosity. Amazing, David.
Thank you, Mr. Bruce; for bringing the ways of writing melodies and the foreground of how specific pieces relate to how we digest or take in our listening pleasure of classical music. It was a great video overall!
One of the most interesting discussions resulting to music that I have heard in quote a while. Thanks.
Thank you so much for making this video! Really interesting and well-articulated.
Absolutely fascinating. I'm almost completely non-nerd in my approach to music (I write stuff for guitar and piano), but the nerdy stuff about it makes sense to me at some deeper level. I was gratified to see that David Lang quote about not wanting his emotional state being shifted all the time - that's why I struggle with Beethoven and a lot of romantic music. Give me a Bach sarabande any day...or a fugue if I'm in the mood. I love folk and fingerpicking too.
Thanks for sharing your insights and wisdom. Especially the Funk
From 8:30 onwards.. I'm sold, genuine dude. Superb video to boot. Subscribed!
i find most of the 'new classical' music on radio q, nyc, mostly lyrical. alas, i come from an earlier period than most of you and still am enamored of straight ahead jazz, hard bop, hey, count basie, jimmy lunceford. and thanks for the folk references, as i grew through that period.and acoustic finger picking and songs remain pure beauty.
David! I must say your youtube channel is a saviour to traditional classical music! :)
What an absolutely amazing video! I really appreciate your honestly and self awareness but like you said a great deal of the work one considers important had to be done with love and fancy in mind. Ie you really gotta like what you’re doing and do it for that reason... this has been the theme of my week lately
David, you always inspire with serious thought out points and humorous silly quips. I want to grow up to be like youl
Very cool to see someone else mention Josh Turner. He's not only a great guitar player but I think he's becoming a really good song writer over the last few years.
David, thanks for your videos; they are phenomenally instructional. Bring on the nerdy! Loving the funk influence.
Great video. I love the broad range of classical music--from lush melody to David Lang. Music is a vast territory. Thanks for a great video.
That is one of the reasons why I started writing my own classical music: I couldn't find anyone still alive making new classical music that has nice melodies and just sounds interesting overall. Reading from the comments it might actually be a good thing that I learned it from an internet course rather than a conservatory.
Some composers like Ludovico Einaudi and Yiruma are okay... but their music is so simple and repetitive compared to Mozart and Beethoven and the like.
Same here- for me it was Rachmaninoff/Tchaikovsky- a collection of mostly their works still stands above most else to me and I wish that style had never died out
I agree. I write in a similar style to Mozart (according to some professors) although I'd like to move more towards Mendelssohn
If you can't find any living composers writing music that "sounds interesting", then I look forward to ear your music...
@@manuelmoreira8575 Alma Deutscher (born in 2005). Seriously. Check, for example, her CDs on Amazon (released in 2013 and 2019). Check her piano sonata written at age of 6 (also recorded on 2013 CD)
@@quaternity6943 Try this then. th-cam.com/video/Y-ByCyOZIQ8/w-d-xo.html it is the slow movement of my 1st Symphony. I have written 5 and all have been recorded, although the issuing of the last two has been delayed by the current pandemic. There are quite a few of my works available on youtube. I need to be better known!
Oh my gosh so many wonderful topics in this video! great job & keep doing super nerdy stuff :)
Thank you David for passing on your knowledge. I get a lot from it.
I find this very helpful. Thank you!
It seems that "modern music" has one guiding principle which is through out anything that smells of the past. Also, a pursuit that says "look at me!, look at me!". I am still waiting for the "Great Leap Forward" in music composition.
Great video David. Love your piece Night Parade, too- extremely enjoyable to listen to!
I'm so glad that you used La Fille aux Cheveux de Lin as an example when you mentioned Debussy.
Contemporary classical makes me think of Einaudi. Most of his music is based off of a couple of very simple sections and phrases that repeat. The song will play through once and then repeat with little articulation. I guess this is why his music is normally a first choice for beginners to learn.
I myself compose similar music. Very simple and minimal and the main melody is repeated. Some people hate this but I dont know, I just love simple. I write music this way, not because I'm afraid (I dont get the meaning behind why people say this tbh) but because that's literally how I think. This doesn't mean I cant write a really great melody, I also love and make full and lush orchestral pieces. It's just that my piano and string pieces are minimal and contemporary because I like it that way.
I have asked myself the 'where's the melody?' question many times. Many absolutely spell-binding technical performances still have me wondering
what exactly are they trying for us to visualize. One of the most obvious examples is the direction that film composing has gone in recent years. You
are going to be hard pressed to remember a melodic approach that Barry, Goldsmith, Williams or Morricone gave us time after time. The pieces
in films today are bass and noise dependent. There are great melodic approaches such as the score for A Quiet Place but they are the exception.
I enjoy hearing recommendations from such a highly trained musician. Plz continue recommending more. I love Arabic music : Natacha Atlas, Amr Diab, etc
I need to find the full version of Night Parade on youtube.
I need it in my life
I'm loving your channel, and will have to find "Night Parade" for a proper listen!
You're a gift on you tube. A proper gift.
I enjoyed your nerdy video, keep on keeping on. I'm gonna subscribe and check out more of your video essays.
Before watching the video: The fact, that there is little to no melodies in contemporary music is my biggest problem with the genre. I like experimental stuff but the melodies are so important in my opinion. They are, what remains in your head for years to come and give the pieces their character and also allow a development in the story, that is being told, by developing said melody. Sometimes I get melodies of pieces stuck in my head for multiple days, even though I havent heard that piece in years. I dont remember a lot from the contemporary concerts Ive been to. Recently I was in hamburg at the Elbphilharmonie, the concert hall has incredible acustics, even better than the "Große Musikvereinssaal" in Vienna. I remember a few parts of those pieces, luckily the ones I liked the most but I cant listen to it again in my head.
This is why I cant really identify with Contemporary Music and therefore, dont ever deal with it.
What if that actually is the point. When I listen to amelodic contemporary music, I don't necessarily want to hear a melody I could then remember and have stuck in my head. I listen to it mostly for the spontaneity of that very moment. What do I feel when I hear this, or that? Do I think a lot about what's going on technically or acoustically, or do I let myself drift into the sensations that come to me?
It isn't a melody I could sing that's then stuck in my head, but that rather is an emotion that gets stuck in my body and mind. The moment became a blurry memory, kind of a dream, and that becomes really inspiring whatever the kind of music I play or write then. :)
I understand your point of view but at same time I like classical contemporary because of video game. I spent a lot of time playing sim city. This game was full of minimalistic pieces. So my brain always associate it with the emotion of my childhood.
I think there are little melodies beacuse composers today are too conformist to a bunch oh guys who dictated avant-garde principles some decades ago. They put on these straigt jackets called "timbre" and " texture" and they leave no room for true imagination.
@@violetavalery and why only exist imagination on melody ?
@@augusto7681 I didn't say that, I said they repeat avant garde patterns and don't use their imagination to come up with something different
It's interesting that you'd be self-conscious about your tastes and personality coming through on your channel as I feel you're one of the most honest and genuine youtuber out there. Less artificial, if that makes sense. Keep on being you, homie! I really enjoy your deep knowledge of your art; and the clear, entertaining form you present it.
Wonderful video. You explain complex concepts in a very approachable way. I also like Josh Turner Guitar - the finger pciking style of playing guitar is my favorite way of listening to guitar.
I've heard light moving! And I recognized it as played by Hilary Hahn, for whom the piece was composed for. It gave me a little thrill to encounter the piece here in your video.
God, your mic setup is absolutely awesome
Really dug the excerpt at the end. It gave me Moondog vibes and that's always welcome.
omg "The Brand New Heavies" sounds amazing, ty for the suggestion :)
If you ever want a great adventure in complete atonality and an exercise in atemporality, I strongly suggest listening to Karlheinz Stockhausen's Gruppen fur Drei Orchestre. (Groups for 3 Orchestras) Not one iota of melody or cognitive rhythm. I have never been the same since I first listened to this work and realized that such a composition is different each time you listen to it.
Probably not, atonal anything is hard to listen to. I am a bit of a masochist and will try to listen to something like G. Ligeti's Volumina from start to finish. An acquired taste and not for the faint of heart= modern/atonal/avant garde music.
However Indian classical music is full of melodies. The most defined one is called a bandish and can be hinted and heard in the beginning improvisational alap portion of the performance before the bandish and tabla portion come in. Even some alap phrases could be considered a melody.
Hi David. I’ve arrived late to your TH-cam channel but I’m really enjoying your presentation style. I’ve learnt a lot.
Great video! That Night Parade piece of yours is awesome
When Doves Cry is a banger eternal, you take that back.
Thank you, this was amazing!
Amazing video as always :)
Your videos are excellent and beautifully accessible
Thanks for your thoughts, especially talking about being introverted. It’s something I’m fighting right now and striving to do more vlog style videos despite this. I’m an enormous synth nerd so I’ve got that going for me at least 😁
Contemporary academic classical music often has become completely mathematical and atonal. It is for a very small audience.
Arvo Pärt is an exception to this. His music is tonal and there is a commonly understood beauty to it. It is not a surprise that for several years Pärt has been the most performed living classical composer in the world.
Night Parade is really cool.
I remember Peter Greenaway referring to "the evil of the melody" slightly archly, but the video of his speech at Butler University (Indianapolis) is available, and he didn't say that, although it's possible I heard him say it before or after, because I did see him after and possibly before he went up, although I never spoke directly to him. He did say that melody is commercial and needs to fall away to create true art. He also calls for figuration to leave painting and narrative to leave film.
There are novels without narrative. Most are critical and commercial failures. The exceptions are by James Joyce.
It's rather an artificial stance I'd suggest, but artists need their own stances sometimes to get good work done. But it cancels out a hell of a lot of excellent art, his notion.
5:50 - Canadian composer Claude Vivier (1948-1983) might be an exception. He was a great melodist on his own way. Here some examples of his melodic output.
Lonely Child - th-cam.com/video/qrIA2KbJkaE/w-d-xo.html
Siddharta - th-cam.com/video/wTQAOgtr1z8/w-d-xo.html
Et je reverrai cette ville étrange - th-cam.com/video/mSuKZXMrzaQ/w-d-xo.html
Zipangu - th-cam.com/video/f2cs0v20VWk/w-d-xo.html
Greetings from Bogotá, Colombia.
P.S: David: your music sounds pretty awesome and inspiring. Night Parade is powerful.
I recently saw Lonely Child live! It was amazing, a truly beautiful voice part.
I thoroughly enjoy your channel, and your music! Have you ever considered writing for wind band? I just returned from the Midwest Clinic (an international band and orchestra convention, specifically geared towards educators) in Chicago, Illinois, USA and after listening to your "Night Parade" thought that music like yours could have a place there, being played by a full wind band. I would love to see a piece for full wind band from you at some point!
Hi David, big fan of your videos and have a question for your next q&a. How could one go about studying classical music without going to school for it? I do plan on going to a university at some point but won’t be able to for at least a couple of years. I have a lot of music theory knowledge and can analyze pop songs and some jazz songs pretty well, but when it comes to classical music I feel like there are a lot of big holes in my knowledge. Should I just pick up full scores and start digging through them or are there any other resources you would recommend?
That piece "Nigh parade" of yours: Wow! Has some serious Prokofjev vibes. Love it! Where can I listen to the whole thing?
Melody, traditionally speaking, is just a way to organize horizontally one of many sound parameters: pitch (among rhythm/duration, intensity, timbre and space). So in order to create music, you can express yourself even without pitch at all (or using it, but not change it), let alone without melody...! As Bruce said, composing with melody derives from a very specific tradition. And the reason most contemporary composers tend not to use it or avoid it at all, is to explore and express themselves through rhythm, intensity, timbre, space, and other pitch related tools like harmony, modalism, etc.
Not really - melody is deeply connected with humanity, as our speech is melodic, and our bodies resound with melody. It's not just a sound parameter.
I want to hear David Bruce, Night Parade! I really liked what I could hear of it in this video. It looks like you made one with a rolling score. That would be perfect!
I like that city buzz pice of yours. I guess it would have perfectly fitted in a mid 50s - early 60s film, like an opening scene with traffic, busy city life. A Hitchcock film comes to mind.... Build a time machine and try your luck ;)
I quite enjoyed the extract from Night Parade; is a full recording available somewhere?
Hi David, greetings from South India. It's so nice to learn that you're interested and knowledgeable in Indian music. I'm curious if you've heard much about the composer Ilayaraja of South India. He's most popular for his film scores and film songs, but a couple of his "music for music" albums are an interesting blend of the western methods of harmony and counterpoint and the Indian method of raga. Their names are "Nothing but Wind" and "How to Name It". Please continue the great work with your videos!
"How to name it" is a very cool album. I first heard it in Thiruvananthapuram in 1992 and was blown away.
I like your videos a lot, so don't change!
Hi David, thanks for your insightful and entertaining videos, I'm really enjoying them. I was wondering if you'd consider talking about how someone could learn composition without access to music school or university? Best wishes, Anthony
I was only interested in watching your videos but Night Parade seems cool.
Excellent.
Nice vid David, once again!
This is a great video!
I've been thinking about the melody component in the new classical music from a long time ago. I believe (maybe I'm wrong) that for most listener the problem is not that melodies are not longer anymore. Nobody will expect something expansive like the second theme of the Unfinished or the extreme beauty of the second theme of Pathetique. I believe that what people miss is a melody segment to whistle after the concert, because the melody forms of today are quite elusive. I have listen many works where the melody is very difficult to keep, to remember note by note, but what I retain is feeling created by that melody segment with the rest of the elements of the music that are sounding together, i.e: in the first movement of your "Gumboots", maybe I don´t remember every melodic gesture, I retain the climax created by the whole ensemble, the Violin Concerto by Maxwell Davies, it's so beautifull, but I don´t remember any specific melodic segment, the same at the very touching moment, close to the ending of Lutoslawski's Fourth Symphony, when the two violins plays a very sad and very nostalgic melodic lines, at that point, it doesn't matter if you can sing this moment later, the whole music moves you inside.
Hi David - are you going to review Whiplash?
It seems to be the in thing
It needs no review. It's basically perfect as it is. Hi, Alan :)
Ha! Wasn't a massive fan I'm afraid.
David Bruce Composer That seems to be the consensus amongst many professional musicians so you don’t have to feel guilty:)
@@DBruce - tell us more! Did your dislike stem from anything specifically music-related in the film or was it simply not enjoying the film as a film?
Also, Anias Mitchell is wonderful. As is your microrhythms video.
@@DaveDexterMusic Hi Dave :)
Where can I find the full "Night Parade" of yours ??
It sounds really great
hey, I have been wondering a bit about quintal/quartal harmony for a while. I admit I haven't looked the deepest into it, but I haven't found an answer exactly to this question: I can mostly get what a quartal chord looks like and sounds like, but where can it go from there? how does it shift, modulate, change into other quintal/quartal chords to give the listener the sense that something changes? I'm not sure how to even approach experimenting to find out, becaus while movement with triadic chords is something I'm somewhat used to, movement of quintal chords is not and it feels strange to me. I'd love an answer to this, but it's fine if there isn't one. Thanks for the excellent videos!
To the subject of who you are writing music for, it's very tough. Sometimes you want WANT to write music for virtuosic and academic qualities, but it may have little appeal outside of the academic circle. Which is why so many of us shy away from odd transpositions, intervals, modes, and shifting time signatures; and why pop music is so prevalent. Simply because it's easily palletable. This isn't a knock on modern popular music, rather it's a tip of the hat to the simplicity of it; that the minimalism of our current popular music culture can give way to some fairly diverse art.
Staying in a single time signature, in a single key, and limiting to only a handful of intervals, some standout artists have made some beautiful art.
(typing on my phone, forgive typos, and lack of references, but I'd be happy to discuss more at length)
I'm going to listen to both of those artists you mentioned at the start of this video. I'm highly intrigued at... Non-human-made music
Here’s a question for the next q&a: What’s your opinion on incorrectly spelling enharmonic notes for a performer’s ease of reading?
Like say you’re trying to spell an E augmented triad across multiple voices. Technically, whoever is playing the fifth of the chord (the B#) should have their part read B#, but without seeing the context of the rest of the chord on their part, a C natural would be much more easy to read. I’ve written both ways and gotten pushback on both sides. Thoughts?
Depends on context. In certain contexts, enharmonics doesn't cause any change. In others (like Liszt or Rachmaninoff), a change of a enharmonic note can imply a new chord or structure.
@@kenhimurabr And it affects intonation - mostly an f sharp for example is closer to a g and a g flat is closer to an f at least in stringed instruments.
It's pretty bad for people who is learning harmony and music theory, but for people who knows everything already, it's ok, not a problem at all, when I compose I just use my ears, I don't need to use intelectuallism anymore, but obviously you need to get this skill by experience and study.
It may interest you then to know that I grew up very near Prince's studio. For a couple of summers, I would drive past it every to and from my classes.
Thank you Bruce! I noticed that there are less melodies in modern compositions, but I like to write music with melodies.. I just like to write melodies.. I think that short music pieces by Tchaikovsky for Nutcracker may be an example of how to write symphonic music with melodies.. I write them following the form aba', when the third part may be a repetition or a variation of the first part. You may find a piece Longing for heaven on my channel on youtube. There may be a composition with a melody and its variations, but I think a further development of a melody with a different harmony and modulations is always a challenge.. for instance, I really love Beethhoven Fourth symphony, the second movement as an example of a beautiful melody and its development
The agony of modern music by Henry Pleasants covers some of this. Wagner thought he was a great composer because of his recitative. Today, audiences sit through all the dreadful recitative to hear the Love Duet from Tristan and Isolde, or Ride of the Valkyries...
I just discovered your channel, I love it :D.
It sounds like, from the video, that maybe, the melody we constantly get from Bach, Handel, Mozart through Chopin up to Rachmaninov is an exception rather than the rule.
The question “why is there so little melody in modern classical music?” has a bit of a semantic trap: The definition of “classical“ music. There’s a great deal of modern melodic “classical“ music, in fact it’s probably the most popular form and the most successful form. However, this music has been written for a specific audience and situation: the world of cinema. One reason I love the violinist Angèle Dubeau and the ensemble La Pietà is that they cheerfully ignore this distinction, and perform and record collections of beautiful, often-melodic “classical“ music from the worlds of cinema, gaming, and “serious“ composers.
Would love to see you cover music for cinema, from Korngold to Richter!
Hey another Brazilian that appreciates music o/ cheers :D
Awesome ❤❤❤
Thanks for another vlog!
insightful video, as a beginner composer and musician I must say that I find myself drawn to the more melodic phrasing. At the risk of being 'dated', my sensibilities are more drawn to melodic shapes and how harmonies interact with the imagined shape. Coming from a classical background, I have the thought that so many melodies have already been written or as the great songsmith Bob Dylan said "there's no new music". I'm not sure I agree.
Interesting, thank you.
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One basic but effective method to reduce the own ego's influence in music is just to include other egos. When you develop and play music in a group with democratic structure, the result might not be completely without ego, but it will become less egocentric and more open and social.
Could you go further in this topic if you know about it? I'd love to know about these methods
@@ec0ec0ec000 It's really no magic, basically what happens in jam sessions when the musicians don't focus on solos but on group play. Instead of one musical mind (=ego) you have a musical group with creative (social) interactions. There is not one ego that composed the music, but in the end it was composed anyway. Of cause it doesn't work with every kind of ensemble and genre.