The Strongest Subclasses for Every Class in Dungeons and Dragons 5e
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ส.ค. 2024
- MONSTERS OF DRAKKENHEIM is 300+ pages of eldritch horror inspired monsters for 5e by the Dungeon Dudes! Coming to Kickstarter March 26th, 2024: www.kickstarter.com/projects/... We take a look back at our subclass ranking videos, and discuss each class and look at what our community thought was the strongest subclass of each class.
This video is sponsored by Dungeons of Drakkenheim! The PDF will be available later this January 2022! Preorder your copy here: ghostfiregaming.com/drakkenhe...
TIME STAMPS
0:00 - Sponsor
1:19 - Intro
4:20 - The Artificer
6:49 - The Barbarian
8:40 - The Bard
11:53 - The Cleric
14:12 - The Druid
15:21 - The Fighter
16:49 - The Monk
20:12 - The Paladin
21:36 - The Ranger
24:36 - The Rogue
26:39 - The Sorcerer
28:41 - The Warlock
31:16 - The Wizard
33:22 - Final Thoughts
____________________________
Watch us play live Tuesdays 6-9 PM EDT on Twitch:
/ dungeon_dudes
Join our Patreon community:
/ dungeon_dudes
Get our custom t-shirts:
bit.ly/dungeondudesmerch
Pick up your next D&D book on Amazon using our affiliate links below. As an Amazon Affliate, we earn from qualifying purchases:
Tasha's Cauldron of Everything -- amzn.to/38SXLK2
Xanathar’s Guide to Everything - amzn.to/2YjaIHY
Volo’s Guide to Monsters - amzn.to/2SseJVu
D&D 5e Starter Set - amzn.to/2Yjbc0K
D&D 5e Core Rulebook Set - amzn.to/2xYTKQG - เกม
![บุษบา - มอส รัศมี [COVER VERSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_n0yENSl8d8/mqdefault.jpg)
We have a vengeance Paladin, totem barbarian, grave cleric, and eloquence bard. They work very well together.
Your poor dm trying to make good encounters
@@user-mu8ok5xf8d I am the DM. Lol
@@hereticsteve5435 You Poor DM
@@user-mu8ok5xf8d I have to think outside the box. Example, there is a Rakshasa that is the crime lord of a region and main town. He has the group dropped off on his own personal island and he hunts them like predator. I also gave the Rakshasa the powers of the gloomstalker Ranger subclass.
I’m in a group with an echo knight, shadow monk rouge multiclass, eloquence bard, dream druid, chronomancy wizard and life claric. The dm had to throw a shadow gold dragon with a undead paladin/claric at us
You should poll again with "the most fun subclass to play" for each class.
I am curious to see what numbers change if any. Do more people have fun playing the most OP builds and min/maxing everything each time they play? or do more people enjoy playing random less optimal subclasses?
I’m not sure it would change much. Druid might change to Wildfire since you get an expanded spell list. Most of that list is powerful because you get more character options that have versatility.
This is an excellent idea as I believe as people play more the OP options become less appealing and would like to see players thoughts
The results of such a poll would be too subjective and dependent on individual tables, contexts, and people's personalities. The demographic surveyed would likewise be the audience that actually looks up DnD stuff, so to begin with, the results would already be skewed one way or another. As well, there'd be little to talk about aside from stating numbers.
I usually find the most fun to play depends on my group and how my PC meshes with that.
RN my fave is my Fire Genasi Wild Path Barbarian. Shes just so fun and the other players are just so fun to play her against
Prefer to play the weaker ones just to be more creative and make it a little harder
One of my favorite parts about the Artificer is that all of its subclasses are both really really good and fun to play. Even the Alchemist, which is obviously situational, really shines in intrigue, criminal and other urban settings or campaigns with lots of water (or sewers). I think it's just that infusions are stupid versatile even when limited by DMs regardless of subclass.
Also, RIP Light Cleric and Ancients Paladins, they can do some really cool stuff :(
The problem with alchemist is not even that they are situational, but the fact that this subclass don't give any good abilities at all. Strictly speaking you can make any Artificier an alchemist and it wouldn't feel different narrative-wise except you would be stronger as well. Agreed on other points. There are plenty solid options even if not clear best.
Ancient paladin zealot barbarian with shield master is quite fun.
They really dropped the ball on the alchemist, I always felt it should have been it's on class instead of shoehorned into the artificer.
@@markcarpenter6020 I will admit, that would've made for an interesting extra Int caster class.
@@aegisScale Agreed and it would have let them develop mechanics more suited to an alchemist than the artificer and imagine the subclasses. Healing, explosion, poison, acid....just off the top of my head.
What you were saying during the ranger section really struck a chord. I always choose Classes and Subclasses that are front loaded because groups often fall apart before getting to later levels, so I want to make sure I create a character who has some fun abilities straight out of the Gate.
Suggestion: sort your labels from highest % to lowest as well. Would like to see the rank of these but really difficult to see.
Agreed, these charts are almost totally useless to someone with a level of colorblindness
Yes!
Not only the legend, but the pie chart itself should, by all the rules of proper data presentation, be sorted by content in some meaningful way (in this case, clearly number of votes).
And it should start at 12 o'clock and go clockwise. Would make reading the darn things so much easier. You wouldn't have to pause and figure stuff out.
Also, including the percentages in the legend as well would have been nice.
Yes, also please just use a bar chart next time. Pie charts are next to worthless. A chart with percentages would be more helpful
Agreed - I truly appreciate the work that goes into the content and no one does it as well as the Dungeon Dudes, however the bar charts would do a much better job of making that effort much more legible.
The one warning I would say about the eloquence bard is that it makes any other charisma based character feel less useful by comparison. I played an Aberrant Mind Sorcerer in a party with an eloquence bard and decided to make a new character because outside of combat my character just felt useless next to the eloquence bard. (Not to say that they can’t work well together and the party had a few other issues, like having no tank which was felt mostly by me)
I just started DMing a game and my bard was leaning between eloquence and lore... That's exactly what I was worried about, that he would get pigeon-holed into being the face at the expense of our Sorceress whose backstory is basically, "Hello everyone, look at me." Fortunately, I believe he's selected College of Lore. Any game mechanic that removes an entire aspect of the game is one you should be cautious about, imo.
That's silly. Aberrant Mind Sorcs are some of the best charm casters, on top of getting innate (subtled) Detect Thoughts. It's true Eloquence has an easier time being the face of the party but you're the designated lie detector/secret finder. High ability to contribute on top of messing with the GM is a clear win/win.
The truly carisma Master is the Fey wanderer
I mean i respect what you're saying, but i disagree, the aberrant's mind main focus isn't to be the true face, the appeal goes to the telekinesis, and to the wonderful things it does in combat. In any dnd game there may be a level of overlaping, but you gotta understand that the kits are different and sometimes youll be worse than others at certain things and vice-versa and that's totally ok. I just dont feel the eloquence bard invalidates other charisma based characters, i truly dont, especially since they have other resources that the eloquence bard simply doesnt have. Also eloquence bard only works for persuasion and deception, which means that depending on your dm ruling, some people just cant be persuaded, and may need to be intimidated (for example).
@@pedroreis1369 that’s fair, personally I do really like both the concept and my friend’s execution of the eloquence bard, the issue was that our campaign really didn’t call for a character that was good at subterfuge and that honestly our party really didn’t need two charisma based characters. I didn’t mean to imply that the eloquence bard completely invalidates other charisma classes, it’s more that depending on the campaign, it does have the potential to outshine others in pretty common scenarios
Everybody knows the strongest class is the working class and of that the strongest subclass is probably the humble railroad unionist.
I've always thought that battlemaster should just be the base fighter class. For me it really adds some fun factor that fighters need to get out of monotony of just mundane attack after attack every round.
I 100% agree. the base fighter class has almost nothing in it adding maneuvers would hinder much. Plus it's the only martial class without a gimmick it has nothing the yells fighter besides action surge which they get to use once per rest until 17th level. Which at that point isn't a gimmick.
I've always thought that Battlemaster was how all Monks should play. The maneuvers always felt like the kind of stuff a monk should be able to do.
Champion with Battle Master maneuvers would be really exciting to play. Especially if it got a free maneuver on critical hits.
Apparently maneuvers were almost part of the base fighter
@@jacobhamilton2473 i really honestly think champion fighter could also be dissolved into base class. if you've ever played one, you are really aware of how it feels to watch everyone in your party do cool stuff just to have, like, proficiency in athletics and a slightly improved crit range, which isnt even unique to the champion fighter. it just feels like MORE fighter-y fighter.
I'm having so much fun with these class tier ranking videos, I have some ideas where you could take this concept further.
- The obvious one: The worst subclasses. I think this has a chance of being more split and therefore more interesting. You can also discuss how you would fix those subclasses, expanding on an earlier video.
- The best 'underdog' subclasses (ie. those subclasses that are not in the TOP 3 in overall strength, but they can be amazing in the right hand and you would love to play them). I know, this is very subjective, but might be fun.
- For the best subclasses you could also do a tournament-style showdown. Deciding the strongest subclass right now in 5e. Some of them might be hard to compare, but this would be a blast imo.
The strongest subclass is the twilight cleric lol. Nothing else compares. Twilight cleric starts out strong at level 1 and stays insanely strong all the way to level 20
@@bartholomewjenkins164 I would support that outcome wholeheartedly, but I would still watch a video about it.
They do have a video talking about how they would improve the worst subclasses, which fits for your first idea pretty well, I think.
@@ChrisHendricks Yeah, I loved that video, and I would be very excited if they did it for more low-rated subclasses. :)
I love that underdog idea! It makes it a lot less intimidating to try something off the beaten path, which I always like seeing!
Thanks for going through the best subclasses in each class. But your Final Thoughts stirred something up: Now I really want to see a 1- or 2-shot of Kelly, Joe, and Jill playing as 3 of the lowest ranked options, just to show how players who can work well together can make "suboptimal" characters gel. Maybe not the WORST subclasses, but the lower-tier ones.
Most core classes are playable even without their subclasses, so the variety might be cool, but I don't know whether the subclasses being the "worst" will really matter.
I made a one shot like that. At level 5. And it mostly just came down to the core class. The war wizard never used his abilities but was still really good since it is a wizard.
A party full of bad monks would be awful
@@beneteus3833 war wizard is good in my experience
Was he not using tactical wit?
I started to run Curse of Strahd, during session zero the party decided to build 'The A-Men', based on a video one of them saw. A party of clerics, none of them picked twilight to my surprise. I did suggest it as an option for someone wanting to be the support cleric, since I'm playing one I was mentally kicking myself since I saw first hand how powerful it can be.
Ha, respect to the party for actually taking up JoCat on that one.
@@jacabo136 it can be fun... saw it once w a Light, Life, War, and Forge.
lol our CoS campaign started with Twilight Cleric, Grave Cleric, Life Cleric...and me the Anc Guardian Barbarian!
To add to the "play how you want", I am actually playing what many see as a very weak warlock subclass, the Great Old One. I am playing him as a control/charm caster instead of an eldritch blast spam. I use a mix of the GoOlock's telepathy feature mixed with the Actor feat to make people thing that they are second guessing themselves. I was also extremely lucky in finding the BBEG's 2nd in command asleep, so I used Create Thrall to make him turn on the BBEG in the final fight.
I play an archfey warlock. At Level 14 you can basically do the Tsukuyomi on enemies. I am Intending to play him like Itachi
Man I love the Feylock, it may not be the strongest but I love the flavor of your patron being this relatively chill dude who sits in a forest
Yes, "play what you want". However, some classes (such as your Great Old One) do suffer in certain campaigns. GoOs might be really powerful in a city-based campaign, but are really struggle if the majority of the campaign was in the wilderness or fighting undead.
My issue with "play what you want" is that many players get an idea in their mind of how they envision their character and that really doesn't pan out in actual play. You picture your ranger as a Mongolian archer... only to find your horse gets one-shotted all the time or combat is never at distances of more than 100' (dungeons, cities, etc.) or you envision of armored dwarven wizard using an axe, only to find you drop too quickly in combat (medium armor, no shield, low HPs) and you stand back and magic missile everything anyway. I don't know how many times I've seen new players roll up different characters around 3rd-4th simply as mechanics to make certain concepts difficult.
People see GOO has very weak? I definitely see it as non optimal but who would see GOO as weak
@@bradleyhall1815 yeah Goolock is pretty solid idk why they think it’s weak
As good as the moon Druid is I enjoyed playing my shepered Druid. I liked the idea of summoning in general. It was a daunting task having to keep track of pools of HP rolls etc. It was also difficult to choose which beasts I should summon. Whether or not it would be better to cast a different spell. Or trying not to take too much time for my turn.Towards the end of the campaign I got the hang of it . The sheperd Druid was my first character I played In dnd. My next character is going to be a Stars Druid :)
At some levels the shepard druid is probably even more powerful than the moon druid.
I've been playing a Shepherd Druid for about 30 sessions from Level 4-8, and it's insanely good to the point where I worry about overshadowing the rest of the party with my summons. It takes Conjure Animals, and already amazing spell, and amps it up. However, one of the most underrated parts of the subclass is the spirit totem's Unicorn option, which turns you into the second-best healer in the game behind the Life Cleric. Using it with Healing Word is like casting Mass Healing Word with a 1st-level spell slot, over and over again. Only limited by short rests, but typically you get a short rest in between the biggest fights.
@@BoPeep_42 I heavily underutilized the unicorn totem so much. To the point when I would cast a totem my default would be bear totem. They are both good but I think putting down unicorn totems and healing would have been better than simply adding 12 temp hp to everyone in the party smh
@@visitora.n.d.1699 Indeed - I have occasionally used the Bear totem if I'm low on spell slots, especially since it adds to party members who are already at max HP. But Unicorn is usually my go-to!
Same, my first character was shepherd druid too... I really like him! unicorn totem (reflavoured to toad totem for my character) has really saved our party's arse a couple of times by being able to heal downed PC's at lower levels without line of sight
The series ranking the subclasses was one I both found a lot of enjoyment out of, but also had a lot of gripes about. This single video addressed every single gripe I had in in one way or another. Very well done dudes!
On the monk, i think it really needs a full redesign. It has the fewest ASI of primary martial classes (tying with the barbarian who does not need ASI' as often) despite being the most MAD of them needing dex, con and wisdom. You have a low HD despite being someone suppossed to be in melee and your fists do not scale as well as they should, you are also only able to hit 4 attacks a round using a limited resource while the fighter eventually just gets more attacks. A fighter even gets unarmed damage increase at level 1 if they choose. Its also pulling from a really awkward place and refuses to have an identity beyond that making charecter creation a bit difficult and unlike other classes you basically have to have dex leveled to play a monk.
I would love to see it based more on real world martial arts with different subclasses taking inspiration from those sources or some supernatural, magical and anime esk versions as well.
My only reason for choosing a Way of the Four Elements Monk was because I thought that it would be able to do some Avatar-like stuff. I understand that the bending can't really be implemented into D&D but I really didn't think it would be as useless as it was. If I were to re-design it I would give it some bending-based abilities and perhaps more ki points or just replace them with skill slots or sth because especially during the first like 3 levels or so you just do one skill and you're out of MP.
P. S. : It was my first campaign so I really didn't have much of an idea how D&D worked when I was choosing class and later on, subclass. A year or so later I am now starting play with a Hex Warlock. Hopefully I will prove more useful this time around and not die as much
Honestly, I would straight up just let Monks make their dual wield attacks without a bonus action, and reduce Flurry of Blows to 1 attack. That feels like it should be one of the base features for what it means to be a Monk, just like Rogue Sneak Attack and Fighter Extra Attacks + Action Surge. The martial arts die and monk weapon system using the die and DEX just... doesn't feel like enough. Just allowing you to dual wield with your fists isn't a good enough baseline feature when you can just equip two swords and still kick a lot of ass.
A monk redesign sounds like a good idea. Mostly the class just needs a lot of streamlining and better damage output. Oh and stunning strike needs a total overhaul to make it less of a delete button.
@@zeterzero4356 I have been toying with the idea of letting monk use two subclasses as a weak patch. I mean obviously not two of the stronger subclasses but like a Primary and a secondary. So if you want to go Mercy and then pick up Four Elements to play Aang I see it not being too powerful but the base kit needs a total overhaul.
@@galinivanov1171 You could work with your DM for homebrew weapons to make regular attacks flavor-texted as the element you want to work with. For example, I have a character with some homebrew magic darts that are a deck of cards. When I roll an attack, I also roll a second d4 for the house of the card to determine its damage type (fire, ice, lightning, acid). You could do the same to control the 4 elements or specify a weapon that changes for a specific element like the water whip doing slashing damage or a fountain doing bludgeoning or using water to freeze for cold damage.
Swashbuckler rogue with magic initiate feat here. Having booming blade with a rapier is absolutely amazing, and picking up message and disguise self has really come in clutch for my party when they needed the more sneaky rogue instead of the bard seducer I'm building my rogue for
As somebody who just finished a 3-20 campaign as one, my personal fave was taking find familiar with magic initiate, to give advantage on the attacks. If I had really wanted to optimize, I would’ve played as an elf and taken elven accuracy, and then gotten triple advantage every turn.
@maruner so did i! We just finished ours. I ended up taking 5 levels in battlemaster, using a whip and shield (my dm let me use polearm master with it) and halfway through the campaign we did a huge quesf for an ancient silver dragon, that i convinced to give me powers. So i ended up with 9 levels swashbuckler/5 battlemaster and 5 draconic sorcerer. I could put out more damage than our conquest paladin and be more seductive/persuasive lol. Just dont ask me to investigate stuff, my rogue wasnt built for that lol.
Swashbuckler fathomless warlock. Badaboom, you got Davy Jones
"The greatest magic of all is... Chronomancy!"
-Arthur Aguefort
Not friendship that’s been made clear.
Only one thing to say, is about the mages: Scribers are INSANE! They gain A LOT from the subclass too, and it is really really cool things!
so are abjurers
My Scribes wizard has a spellbook that acts a lot like Jarvis. Very dry and droll sense of humor that keeps the wizard humble, and it's hilarious.
Battle smiths seem to be the "I can do everything you can do better" artificer subclass. Battle Smith can always pivot to what's needed because of how infusions interact with getting to use Int for magic weapons. So they can use a heavy crossbow, a great sword, and spells. With a +5 ability mod for all of it.
Heck a few of the artificer infusions act like feats for specific weapons, or straight up do things you can't do with regular magic items. Battle Smith "yes and"s every single one of those infusions.
Armorer doesn't really do that. You get more infusions, eventually, but they are not more potent.
Battle Smith quietly buffs ever single weapon infusion starting at level 3.
The artillerist is far better than both of them. My friends and I play pvp quite a bit and the artillerist artificer is not only the strongest artificer, it’s also one of the strongest classes overall.
@@jail13ot63 pvp is a very specific circumstance though. Fighting the rival adventuring company is the closest most tables come, and while it's a great d&d trope, it's generally a very small part of what your character will do.
I don't really see how the artillerist would be better in pvp. That said, being good at PvP is not really a high bar of measure.
For instance the best subclass for PvP is most likely a whisper bard, as it gets to use all of its powers, deal a ton of psychic damage, and has the best spell versatility.
I can tell you from personal experience that the whisper bard isn't really that good of a subclass in standard play.
Battle Smith really reminds me of a more optimized Paladin. The biggest problem with Paladin is that you can’t use CHA for your to hit modifier, but Battle Smith solves this so swiftly, and allows you to do it on multiple weapons too. I’ve REALLY enjoyed my time with the heavy crossbow build - such good damage output from range, especially if you can get a Faerie Fire up early. Plus it supports your allies!
And that’s just one potential build. I’m intrigued by the idea of a Battle Smith that goes all in on AC, or a heavy weapon master one that utilizes the steel defender to block attacks. But man I couldn’t be happier that repeating shot hack.
@@BoPeep_42 my current Battle Smith build is a defensive battle smith.
My AC is 20 at level 5, with the shield spell, absorb elements, and as a tiefling hellish rebuke for when I somehow do get hit.
I'm looking forward to getting the Spell-Storing Item ability at lvl 11 because I will hand the steel defender 10 uses of Warding Bond every day so I have total resistance and +1 AC. Sure the little guy will eat a ton of my damage for me, but mending is free, cure wounds isn't.
Give the Monks abilities to regain Ki during combat (triggered by events or reactions situations), like from just really quick spit ball here but regain 1 or 2 on Crits, or gain 1 Ki when all your attacks actions hit. Im sure there are more and better ideas to do this.
Back before the drunken fist monk released, I was trying to come up with one. The idea was that they were going to have more ki points and some other abilities, but huge drawbacks like exhaustion and charisma debuffs. I was also trying to write in a way to rehabilitate and go into other monk subclasses. Probably sacrificing a couple levels. I liked the idea because somewhere between level 8 and 12 you start having enough ki points to cut loose, but before that you feel so limited
I feel if they at least took a page from another unofficial subclass, "way of the living weapon" which has a class ability at level three to increase the martial arts die up one size, even just making that an option to trade out for one of the other monk class skills, I'd be happy with that. I'm planning to play a Tabaxi monk in the next game I play and try to ask the gm to let me swap one or two abilities for that and another alternative racial feat at level 4 to build off of my character's backstory
On the Artificer, I feel like any half-caster that tries to lean into being more of a spellcaster than a warrior is going to struggle to impress so the gish subclasses are going to be more impressive
I would have voted for Artillerist as the most powerful one
I’m actually playing an Artificer/Rogue who does a great job as a skill monkey/infiltrator (dumped Charisma, but we have a bard to cover that)
Agreed. The magic oriented Artificer subclasses get nothing even when it comes to basic cantrips. They get a measly 2 up till 10th level (one of which is more often than not eaten up with Mending, for arcane cannons/steel defenders). I seriously hope they take another look at this when 5.5 comes around.
You might assume so, but as someone who plays a lot of dnd pvp I can tell you the artillerist is one of the strongest classes in the game and my personal favorite. Your AC is one of the highest possible as well as your spell accuracy if you take the proper infusions. I use a variant human/ tasha’s variant to get the lucky feat. The result is AC 21/26 with the shield spell, if they break that you can spend a lucky die. Then flash of genius/ lucky and absorb elements get you through any saving throws you might need to make. Eventually you can make winged boots which gives you non concentration flying to avoid anything without a ranged attack. You can’t be touched while you snipe everything around you with a +2 enchanted wand/pistol that adds 1d8 and your force ballista attacks with your bonus action.
@@jail13ot63 yup. Also at low levels protection from good and evil/blur with the protection turret and that same AC that you mentioned. It simply shuts down encounters and if you do get hurt a little you still have cute wounds on your spell list
I've been playing a College of Creation Bard and he is fun as hell. My DM is getting really tired of my asking about what kinds of furniture and statuary line a room or courtyard so that I can animate it. But the utility of performance of creation and animating performance cannot be overstated.
100% I wound up playing one through a strange circumstance- it takes a bit of organization, but i don't think there's any other class/subclass that allows the creativity that the Creation Bard offers.
@@ashmustard5077 I don't think having anything you need qualifies as creativity.
"There's a fridge with a GUN IN ITS HANDS"
@@regaleagle6533 I absolutely mean this with no malice- but that answer shows a lack of creativity! "Anything you need?" No, I didn't need a statue of a mimic to animate- did I want one, and was it amazingly fun/practical in combat? Yep! :)
I'd love to play one, but I think I don't have the creativity to live up to it's potential, and my party is pretty pure-dps combat oriented. Such cool flavor though.
As someone who recently played a rune Knight fighter from 3 to 20, DO NOT sleep on it, ESPECIALLY the cloud rune. Cloud rune alone makes this a subclass worth taking and I cackled like a madman every time I got to use it
I think I also learned that I enjoy martial/support hybrids because the rune Knight slots pretty nicely into that role
Also to bounce off your final thoughts, I absolutely agree. I had a winged tiefling con dump fathomless warlock that was focused on AOE, crowd control, and survivability spells (like Mirror Image). I had so much fun with that character, unfortunately that campaign fell through but I'd love to revisit that character down the line
Man ever since baldur’s gate 3 I’ve been getting more interested in actual D&D and you guy’s really seem to have some great insight into a lot of stuff.
Breaks my Warforged heart that Cleric of the Forge wasn't even mentioned. 😭😭😭 Thanks guys for a great time.😋 Try one out as a warfoged just once might change mind.
Forge Cleric looks awesome. I want to play one as a Tortle at some point.
Forge is my favourite cleric subclass, closely followed by tempest!
Been playing a mountain dwarf forge cleric and can confirm!
Playing a Hill Dwarf Forge Cleric now, so much fun. I literally made a moveable Faraday cage with the channel divinity feature in order to circumvent the DM's lightning mephit level, and provide the party with as many frag. grenades as we can afford. I love the versatility the subclass brings; you can do almost anything with a little imagination.
Its honestly because Forge fails off really hard after level 6 compared to the other subclasses, but it definitely doesn’t help that Twilight and Peace are so strong that not even second place is really even worthy of A tier by comparison.
I was happy to see that College of Creation Bard pulled in 3rd place for the Bard as an underrated sleeper pick having played one. The versatility is out the roof especially in early levels of play. As bards can't prepare spells, getting creation magic where you could make a 10 foot cube block to inhibit enemies or caltrops to as a small AOE or food or drink, a small battering ram or even gun powder, you are getting basically a light version of lots of spells with one free use each day. On top of that, animating performance gives bards who don't get summoning spells, basically a summon spell at level 6 that is concentration free which can also be used to as basically concentration-free flight, spiritual weapon that slows enemies and speeds allies, and a lesser form of telekinesis with a free casting each day. The shenanigans for creative players are also out the roof layered with other magic.
I loved Monk since 3.5... Still loved him in PF... When I read 5e, I shouted "look how they massacred my boy!"
You think the Monk was... better in 3.5? That's a new opinion to me.
I admit the Monk could use some slight buffs to bring it up to par on 5e but have *never* heard anyone say it's worse than 3.5's monk. I'd enjoy hearing why.
@@BladeDragoonZETA it kind of depends on how much access to different resources you have. With enough source books you can get quite heavy support feats wise for monks which obviously isn't the case in 5e so if you spent the time and combined some powerful feats, races and so on you can create truely beastly monks.
@@BladeDragoonZETA slight buff.... Slight buff. Double his abilities and he is still underpowered in 5e.
@@MegaMrsuperawesome Monks need more in 5e but their core chassis is far closer to baseline than they were in 3.5.
The only major benefit monks in 3 5 get is that they have higher base damage dice. Most of the other benefits are inherent to 3.5s less balanced nature.
They didn’t add the oath of throwing it back. My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined 😢.
I still think scribes are massively underrated. The ability to change the damage types of your spell is incredible. What's that, your fighting a horde of enemies who are resistant/immune to fire damage? Good thing my fireball is actually a lightningball or a forceball.
Our first time player wizard ended a oneshot recently like this, we revealed in the fight that the creature had an acid weakness so she cast fireball as acid damage on it (hitting two of the party as well but we both made our saves and it failed) and absolutely demolished it. Was a great moment.
Having recently made a Lore Bard for my Eberron Campaign can confirm they're great, so happy they made it to the top of Bards.
Eloquence Bards are basically S for pushing the Bard's social skills and Inspiration to the max, whereas Lore Bards are S for pushing the Bard's skill monkeying and spellcasting to the max - the best aspects of the Bard.
Ya, currently playing a Lore Bard in Mad Mage and she's ridiculously op. With a spell DC of 19 and having went all in on damage spells + spellsniper (gotta have eldritch blast), she can end encounters before they begin.
order of scibes is really underrated imo. being able to be at 2 places at the same time is just so good, especially on bigger battlefields. and out of combat you have a great scouting option with darkvision. also changing damage types to avoid resistances/immunities just feels so good
I'd be interested in seeing the most fun, weakest, and most versatile subclasses for each class
I'm still loving my good Drow female Life Cleric of Selune. She supports everyone, can handle her own in combat and the role-playing options are so much fun!
Honestly the Dungeon Dudes have single-handedly eased me into accepting and appreciating the optimizer side of DnD, which I used to hate
Same here. I feel like Kelly and Monty create videos to suggest new strategies and stuff but you still see them playing and their characters aren't trying to break the campaign or something. Other people just make a post that says: "you want a 10 level character? Yeah, just pick this and this, multiclass into that and that way you can be invincible", while the Dudes are always talking about how being stronk isn't the most important thing.
Tbf they don't optimize well and a lot of their opinions are based on "this feels/looks strong" or has been strong in their personal campaigns.
Actual optimization is a process that one needs to learn and then apply to ones own circumstances.
Eloquence bard is gonna have incredibly different amounts of success depending on what your DM specifically lets you get away with, its still a very powerful class but it will be broken in some groups.
Some of the worse subclasses tend to have RP implications that some DMs will play into while others will not so its hard to predict success and its more common that they won't get supported.
Just glancing through the comments on this video I have seen multiple people argue that their class was rated too low simply because in their experience their DM allowed them to do things that thematically make sense but have no rules text.
I think oath of the ancients is hugely underrated.
also can confirm a high elf swashbuckler rogue with the booming blade cantrip is incredibly fun. that campaign went to level 10 and i did 5 levels of rogue with the swashbuckler subclass and five levels of fighter going into champion and taking the blind fighting style because there was lots of snow in our setting that the other players could kick up for me and i got my hands on an eversmoking bottle.
Battle smith, with sharpshooter and repeating shot on a heavy crossbow, great dps and your steel defender takes all the hits, plus the plethora of role play moments with the tool proficients etc. My favorite class so biased lol
I played what you described for our Curse of Strahd campaign. Positively amazing character, lol. Except I used a hand crossbow and added Crossbow Expert for disgusting versatility in every fight.
I'm playing a swashbuckler in a campaign right now and it's an absolute blast. Having a pirate-y rogue with near-face levels of charisma can be really, really, fun outside of combat.
I am incredibly surprised to not see the scribes wizard higher. I played a scribes wizard and the versatility to be able to change your damage types is insane and really cool flavor. Not to mention it is like the most wizard wizard subclass
Interestingly, I think the Horizon Walker is the Ranger to take to higher levels. You get your best feature in tier 3 play, incredible spell list and every ability that comes up just makes you more survivable.
Agreed. My horizon walker character feels so fun to play. Zephyr strike was my favourite spell.
Glad that we're giving the swords bard a little more love here. I feel like it isn't said enough that defensive flourish changes a lot for that class, you can easily have up to around 20 AC at level 3 if you land an attack, AND whenever you get magical secrets you can pick up shield and counterspell in the case that anything does try to hit you. Yeah, you're not doing typical bard stuff, but for playing a gish it can be a lot of fun to have the extra utility of a bard and still contribute damage wise. I'm very much looking forward to my Swashbuckler Rogue College of Swords Bard I'll get to be playing soon. I did the combo before and it was pretty effective but now I've fine-tuned it to the point where I feel like it'll be a show-stopper
Hexblade 5 (polearm master, hexblade's curse, improved pact weapon/thirsting blade, eldritch smite, devil's sight+darkness), paladin 2 (divine smite), swords bard X (blade flourishes, more spell slots) is the ultimate smite peddler. Forget overdone hexadins, hexabardins are the flavour of the day!
2 levels in paladin with the other levels in swords bard with PAM and GWM is pretty fun :)
Huh, never thought about doing swords bard with a greatsword, that would be pretty fun too. I feel like this game needs more martial options to play around with AC like how battlemaster has
@@DERyuga You can if you get martial weapons from either Paladin or Hexblade (and Blade Pact so you can make a two-hander your Hex Weapon), but then your Fighting Style choice as a Swords Bard is basically useless unless you decide to use a backup weapon.
@@Mrryn I feel like with paladin you can easily bypass that
Having recently played a Clerificer (Twilght/Alchemist) in a One Shot, I can say I LOVE the flavor of an Alchemist. But their core mechanic is hot, left out in the summer sun to rot after four days of rain, swampy garbage.
Ironically, I play my Armorer as leaning more into alchemy for spellcasting and flavour. To my imagination it's more immersive to quickly mix together a couple vials of strange ingredients and whip it forward than simply waving a tool in the bad guys' direction like a magic wand. Even her Arcane Armour is made out of alchemically-altered metal so that it's formed more like insect chitin
@@SilentSooYun Like I said, the flavor Alchemist is Michelin Star Quality! Like when I cast Tasha’s Caustic Brew I described it as popping a Mentos in a Coke bottle. But the core mechanic of Experimental Elixir is…..bad. Almost unplayably bad.
20:32 Dang, Paladin ratings surprised me! Oath of Ancients is a blast to play, and very open ended roleplay wise. I guess we just have a lot of players who like creating characters with MAXIMUM EDGE.
Or giving yourself advantage on a target twice a short rest 🥴
@@agentorange739 flanking is a thing though if you're smart lol
@@ulyssesthedm It is optional rule, so it isn't that consistent.
Of course, edge is like salt it makes things taste interesting in moderation and in the right context but when used poorly it overpowers the other flavours. I find vengeance pal to have just the right amount of edge
I'm really surprised the Ancients Paladin didn't get more votes, giving most of the party resistance against _all_ spells is kinda crazy.
Made a Lore Bard for the Dungeon of Mad Mage campaign and it was unbelievably fun to play. 10/10 would play again.
As a new person to D&D I always find y’all’s videos so helpful, Thank you and great video
I've only just started playing a Circle of Stars Druid (just hit 4) and I love them. Having the Archer form and attack spells to be more direct or using Dragon form and Moonbeam on a Vampire spawn to protect that concentration (auto win on damage ≤ 26). Can't wait to get that character leveled up!
Imagine if you just took a 2 level dip into Stars then multi-classed into another spell-caster. A Wizard with the Dragon form is busted.
@@noahmehringer29 oh that's for sure! That's something to keep in mind later on
Circle of stars can also be the best druid subclass if you can get your hand on a mizzium appearatus and take a level in an arcane caster to meat the attuning requirement. The dragon form makes that item incredibly busted and leads to an incredibly powerful spellcaster
@@ronben-ezer8373 Cool, I'll check it out. Thanks!
@@DDCRExposed it’s a magic item that lets you cast any spell on your class’s (if multiclassing, any spell on any of your classes’) spell list, as long as it’s for a level you have slots for, at will. This is an uncommon item. The downside is that you have to succeed on a DC 10+twice the spell level arcana check, or you lose the slot and instead cast a randomly determined spell. With the dragon form, this is pretty fucking powerful
Just finished a campaign from 1-14 playing an armourer artificer. The extra infusions did wonders and allowed me to play the tank while granted support to the party through strong items while still getting some good buffs for myself makes me feel like it’s the clear winner
Great video. Loved the information. Very informative for those of us wanting to try other classes or subclasses. I thought the actual data/ chart could have been presented better. But I loved the discussion of each class. Thanks!
What I like about strong subclasses is the ability to use those subclasses in suboptimal ways while still succeeding.
I'm running a Battlemaster/Gloomstalker (3/9) through DotMM as a str based frontliner, and it's so good. :)
Same. I have a College of Swords Bard multi-classed as a Rogue Assassin. And just going off to sneak and attack and then getting them with Hideous laughter... It's brutal but effective
I recently played an Artillerist Artificer in a lvl20 PvP battle royal and ended up winning it basically due to the insane survivability of the build. The Artificer capstone makes all subclasses incredibly tough but imo the Artillerist capatilises on it best with the addition of the Shield spell, the protector turret and getting half cover from any Eldritch Cannon being within 10 feet of you. Making your own character untouchable might not be the best strategy in a team as it just incentivises the enemy to rather attack your team mates but if you're going solo I'd argue the Artillerist is the best Artificer subclass.
One other fix for warlocks is that each time your spell level increases, you get another spell slot. Still only gets 5 spell slots, 1 more than now, but they come online much earlier.
My wife and I just got into D&D and your channel has been pivotal in helping me understand all the intricacies and facets of the game, Thank you
I am currently running a Circle of Stars Druid, and I absolutely love this character. I think it adds a lot of character opportunities that allows you to roll as someone who is not just a "tree hugging" druid. I love the connection with the heavens and how it can be used in backstory!
I totally echo how you narrated the results of the cleric. I would be interested in seeing the results of a re-do of the cleric, leaving out the twilight. There are so many other good choices that I would've liked to see represented.
I mean... that's the point of the cleric video. If they excluded Twilight then Peace would have run away with the victory.
@@tinkerer3399 And if you exclude that you still have order and zeal
Recently played a goblin alchemist named Joose and I can confirm. That subclass is super weak, but it can be a great support and I made a ton of money selling potions. Also it was super fun to role play a goblin who made murky potions with odd effects.
I have also played a goblin alchemist and while the subclass is weak, I do agree that it is super fun to play regardless
Really enjoy the video, and the message at the end. Thanks for all the awesome content guys!
I really enjoyed this video thank you! I reccomend trying this again at some point and either let people pick their top 3 or simply rank them all in order. In that case I think there will be some more surprises and more balance, less landslides. I would like to give the Valor Bard, Fey Wanderer, Rune Knight, Wildfire Druid, War Wizard, Trickery Cleric etc their flowers for being great 2nd or 3rd options.
For me I love playing my Oath of Glory Paladin. I have used the Channel Divinities multiple times for combat and exploration and the aura of Alacrity has helped my Rogue and other up close fighters get in faster and chase after enemies. Let alone the fact that I use Haste in almost every combat and laying the smackdown on everything in my path. Vengeance does seem fun but Glory has been so much fun I can't see myself playing a different Paladin :)
Yeah I've been playing a glory paladin for awhile now, metallic silver dragonborne from fizbans. Up to level 16 now and the glorious defense is rather busted +5 to Ac reaction and if the attack misses my now 30 ac I get to attack the attacker back plus can target nearby allies with this effect. I love this oath for role play reasons as well the dueling aspect of it and desire to improve seems more reasonable and perhaps not quite extreme as other tenets for other oaths.
Great idea for a video. I've only tried a couple Cleric subclasses, but as soon as Twilight Cleric dropped...man...I knew that thing would dominate over the others. It seems waaaayyy too strong in a party setting, but could be a ton of fun if played correctly.
I think the trick to knowing if you need to play the "best" subclasses, is to just ask your GM how hard they plan on making the combats. Hopefully they answer you directly (and if they dont, just tell them point blank youre asking if you need to powergame or not) and you know if you need to be Optimal or if you can play around a bit
on the soul knife I would make the phycic blades stronger as they get in the higher levels as I dislike the fact the blades never get stronger which makes it harder to want to use them instead of grabbing magic weapons which I feel defeats the point of soul knife.
Your not suppose to keep using them. At higher levels you use the extra abilities instead of the daggers and you get the benefit of never being unarmed
@@user-mu8ok5xf8d and thats a fair way to play, but for me and my games We use a lot of homebrew items and it simply means that compared to other players in the group the person picking the soul knife loses thier insintive to keep using their classes special weapons, which are really cool and unique
@@kythewolf2969 maybe talk to your dm about making items or feats that would add damage to your daggers. Like something that makes psychic damage you do add a dice or somthing
@@kythewolf2969 i think it wouldn't be a huge stretch for your dm to homebrew a magic item that gave +1/2/3 to your psychic daggers. For unarmed there are amulets that do it, so it wouldn't be that hard. A good dm would do this for you i feel like
@@caelandemaziere7939 My point is it shouldnt be an item I'd homebrew, i'd simply up the dice size of the daggers at like level 8 or 10 and call it a day
I play a Twilight Cleric and she's amazing for support. She keeps the party on their feet really well while dishing consistent damage. The DM has taken advantage of the Twilight Sanctuary Channel Divinity to really deliver some great combat encounters. We fought 100 skeletons at level 2 in an all melee wave and just barely pulled through. I agree that a less experienced DM might be overwhelmed but with cooperation it's unconquerable.
Twilight clerics are amazing. But I also find that Grave Clerics are insane when the party gets into a battle where they bite off more than they can chew. I eas a grave cleric in a party where we ended up getting into a lot of combats where players were dropped to zero hp. And in those situations, healing is always max. Mixing them with a Life Cleric essentially is guaranteeing that nobody else will die in the party.
I also play a twilight in a murder mystery sci fi campaign on a moon and its sooo fun! I just turned lvl 6!😊
I literally went looking for this video yesterday! Perfect timing!
another great video, especially the end about fun and teamwork! Keep it up!
18:40 And most importantly, giving Monks blind fighting (like in the fighting style). This is one of the main things defining the eastern martial arts monks in pop culture, and I find it astonishing that it's not part of the monk class. Would be such a thematically fitting and very useful, but balanced feature. :(
Never seen something this early before, always enjoy getting the notifications for your videos!
You are guys are so awesome
i think this is one of your best vids out there. love it.
After listening to the expanded spell list for sorcerers....
I have done the same for specialist wizards. Giving them one spell per spell level that is always prepared and must be the specialization they chose for level one through 5. This takes the place of the savant ability. What I found was more wizards using their actual specialization Magic instead of all of them picking the same spells for a general list.
Honestly savant wizards should have the same sort of limitations that arcane tricksters and eldritch knights have that each time you get a new spell slot level (1/3/5/7/9/11/13/15/17) has to be from your savant school of choice.
Blade singer, scribes, graviturgist and chronomancy I am not sure about (I have suggestions) but they likewise should have some sort of limitation.
Chronomancy and graviturgist should pick dunamancy spells at those levels. Blade singers could have target *self* spells, scribes could have no limitations to set them apart.
Always play the character that interests you the most, I had the most fun playing a Sun Soul Monk/Light Cleric who never used stealth. It was fantastic to kick in a door and provide a nice distraction for the more stealthy party members. A glowing beacon of light, brightening the corners of the darkest timeline.
Here's an idea for a video about lesser used abilities:
20 Creative Uses For Bard's Performance of Creation
"i'd like another scoop of bard, please" *bard noise intensifies*
this has got to be implemented as an NPC pickup line, somewhere plz
excellent video and discussion. Thanks so much for the time and effort you put into your videos. Happy gaming!
I would love to see a monk class rework from you guys. I totally agree with your assessments. I have been toying with the subclass some. I've considered limiting stunning strike to once per turn or limiting to PB/day but give them more options. I like giving them some baseline spells able to be casted by ki (just like the shadow arts from shadow monk). Things like misty step seem appropriate.
I’m playing a great old one warlock and I’m having a lot of fun with it. For role playing some of the stuff they can do is neat like awakened mind. The dm also throws in a lot of moments with the Patron and them talking which has been some of the best parts. Combat wise as I leveled up it’s much better and I have to plan out every spell wisely but some spells and now having a familiar because of my ritual I gained I can use it to make an attack or spell (I got a gazer per dm) and then my own cantrip. They are not easy to maximize their strengths but fun to play
I have a player who has a great old one warlock. He I actually accepted the pact without knowing in his backstory so I’ve had it be a bit of a mystery with this entity. He keeps having visions of a wave of coalescing black hands enveloping him.
9:01 Valour every time. Extra attack, plus the flexibility of your Inspiration being able to be added to damage rolls. Absolute GOAT.
the throwing ballista bolts back always makes me think of Tai Lung from Kong Fu Panda. And I think that feeling that Tai Lung embodies is exactly what a monk of Open Palm should bring.
Spirits Bard is so powerful when used properly. It may not be the STRONGEST but that’s by far the most underrated subclass
Artificer artillerist was really not as rated as I've found it!
So at level 8 you can get an amazing feat combo of polearm master, War caster and crusher. Spamming temp hit points with the protector.
Using a quarterstaff you can add an extra d8 to booming blade with the arcane firearm and hit them back 5 ft. If they step in they take the extra from booming, then you can hit as a reaction and use booming on that again pushing them back so they have to step back in again.
With repulsive shield and radiant weapon if you get hit there is so much you can do to help your team and still be in the fight haha.
I always felt there isn't a real front line defensive control build till I started playing this haha.
Hope this all makes sense
Thats a really surprising combination but it actually kinda works pretty well, you just get to spam those Booming Blade dice and still help your party with the constant Temp HP
Anyone can do this not just artillerist and 3 feats is a huge cost
@@isaiahjohnson9786 True, but this way really amps the damage up and there are great offsets with +1/+2 weapons to balance out stat losses of having three feats, as well as great options that make you more than just that combi.
Cool idea!
@@isaiahjohnson9786 yes but the temp hit points as no need for bonus action and the artificer items just maximise the build unlike a few others
I didn’t think arcane firearm worked for melee attacks. Since it has to be cast through a wand…
If anyone is considering multiclass, the twilight domain cleric with the circle of stars druid. An insanely unstoppable support role, juicing temp hp and neverending concentration or boosted healing
College of Lore is such a powerful option because of Cutting Words. There is unfathomable versatility in being able to just use a reaction to inch an opponent’s successful roll to a failure or an ally’s failure to a success. having both played as a Lore Bard and having had the benefit of one as a teammate in my party, it’s almost as much of a game changer as the Lucky feat
I'm surprised Peace Cleric isn't the obvious strongest cleric subclass. Twilight is great to be sure, the temp hp farm is awesome, but Peace Cleric is just so so strong. At level 1 they can Bless + Bond 2 party members for an extra 2d4 on *every attack and save*. The bond scales to get the whole party and the channel divinity is a decent pinch option. But the teleportation on Protective Bond? Have someone you need to protect like a VIP, downed party member, or even a 1hp familiar? Boom they're fine. Plus the teleportation is great for battlefield repositioning and you can do it as much as you want, you could just throw a rock at a familiar and just use the bond as a party teleporter. And if you have a barbarian in your party they become an absolute menace. Single enemies, such as bosses, are gonna struggle to target spellcasters here when you have a bunch of people just teleporting in the way. Also Expansive Bond comes online late but its fantasitc, and the domain spells are all at least decent.
Twilight gets a temp hp farm, some flying, and darkvision.
I know right? After seeing peace cleric in action this class is just AS broken as twilight if not more. peace cleric kept our melee fighters alive against an onslaught of pumpkins.
You want to know what's even more broken? The no of people in the bond and the no of uses per day SCALES WITH PROFICIENCY! You can dip ONE LEVEL and gain the full effect of one of the most brokenly strong game features 😭
*1d4 on every attack and save + 1d4 on one attack or save per turn. Still really powerful
Twilight not only gets the temp hp, but a lot of some of the best spells you can find for cleric extra spells. if you have your Twilight Sanctuary and Circle of Power both active, your party gets a crapton of temp hp, evasion against all saving throw types, and advantage against those saves, making your party practically immortal. theres also Aura of Vitality, which can give a crapton of healing to the party every turn. or you could have Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon active at the same time, to absolutely screw up any enemies you come across while still having Twilight Sanctuary up, which the sanctuary also grants Half Cover at the capstone. all while flying out of the range of anyone trying to hit you and the aura still protecting your allies, and with spells as an action proper to deal with more while you already have a crapton of effects up
Peace Cleric is definitely up there as what i think is a REALLY close second, but Twilight Domain is basically plot armor for the party on top of a full on howitzer. i have been in a game with a Twilight cleric for the better part of last year, and we only finally had someone go down when the DM sent 4 monsters with higher cr than us, including a Zombie Beholder. and that player was immediately brought back up easily by the cleric. and this guy isnt even a healing/support build as his focus!
The problem with healing is its only particularly useful if people are going down... a lot. Unless you're playing a hard-core game, most people are balancing combat and RP so death and reasonable risk of death are a rarity. Whereas condition ending, buffs and utility of Twilight is useful always. Peace ultimately has the more powerful package, but the fact its max potential is needed or used much less often, means its less impactful on average.
I think I have a similar feeling when it comes to evocation Wizard and Order Of The Scribe now that I have started playing that Order Of The Scribe wizard I ended up becoming like a pretty proficient blaster which I didn't actually expect from The nerdiest Wizard. Like simply being able to change the damage type of my spells have been pretty useful because we keep coming up against things with different resistances or other strategies that make me want to use certain kinds of spell. One real good example of we are fighting a mate under that every time we hit it with magic had to make a dexterity saving throw our take our own damaged back at us I started changing every single spell i used the fire because since I'm a tiefling i resisted fire. And yeah I just been like a really strong Blaster and not much else so they kind of feel like a better version of evocation
“Agreeance” is definitely a trademark word for this channel
Have you guys thought about doing multiclass one shot videos base on what the community suggestions. Kind of give what would be best races, feat, spells, and play styles. I think these would be awesome video to see
I'm kind of shocked that Bladesinger didn't get more votes. But I've never played the 2 subclasses that beat it, so maybe I'm missing out. The sheer amount of versatility and options that Bladesingers have is just too much fun for me to pass up. I'd have trouble choosing any other kind of wizard, unless I wanted to play the more traditional old man in a robe kind of character RP wise.
21:50 DAYUM, Gloom Stalker turned into PacMan and ate EVERY other subclass for Ranger. No too surprised, but still, that percentage is crazy high and really says something about Ranger. I will say that the new Drakewarden feels great to play though.
Great content gentlemen! Definitely a trend toward high damage, instant gratification (3rd lvl abilities) and versatility through the most popular subclasses. 5e really seems to reward multiclassing and being a jack-of-all trades. Kinda the opposite of the older days of AD&D where expertise specialization seemed to be the goal, and you gave up really good things later on as a multiclass type of PC, at least in my experience. Obvious why this is more fun for most players. I still like being a niche specialist because of the heavy thematic elements it offers.
Very helpful overview for a dnd newbie like me! Thanks a lot!
I feel like Whispers Bard is criminally underrated. Yeah you can just play a rogue but damage support comes out to shine with this subclass.
I can attest at being a Moon Druid that it is the most powerful druid subclass. The fact that I could practically solo an entire encounter intended for five level 20 characters speaks volumes for how potent it is.
yo i’d love to hear that story actually? that sounds cool as hell!
@@thesuperduck24 Honestly not too much to tell? It was a pretty short one-shot. Me and four other players journeyed into a temple to stop a group of cultists. First room we went in we were ambushed, my druid lost a good chunk of health, and proceeded to turn into an Ancient White Dragon. I took out two of these four-armed demon things by myself, the party handled the rest on their turns. As an Ancient White Dragon, I could pretty much ignore difficult terrain by flying over everything. We get to the main temple area, It's crawling with baddies. We get into the encounter and everyone's keeping distance and fighting strategically. Meanwhile I could just go ham, tank a ton of damage, and just dish it out. I didn't even get a chance to turn into anything else. Finally, we got to the summoning circle the cultists and other monsters were guarding. My dragon self just flies in, lands atop the statue in the center of the circle, and casts Sunburst. Giving a look of divinity for the enemy. The party was blinded, but all of the enemies were dusted.
Moon Druid at early levels and again at level 20 is absolutely nutty. However, the community seems to "forget" that their relative power dips alot in the mid-late game (10+) relative to other subclasses, and i actually think Shepherd, Stars & Wildifre can throw down with Moon Druid when going all levels.
@@carumsarene That sounds awesome and I'm glad you had fun :)
However, I'm not gonna discuss the "OPness" of the druid, but maybe the DM was distracted when he let that fly:
Moon druids have their wildshapes' CR limited to a third of their level (rounded down) - so, 6 CR max at 20th level. And dragons are in a different category from Beast (or elemental), so you wouldn't be able to wildshape into one.
An Ancient White Dragon is a CR 20 creature - as you said, an adequate level 20 encounter. But unless you used Shapechange and you previously encountered an Ancient White Dragon to use that shape (similar to True Polymorph, something the Wizard, the Warlock and the Bard can also cast), you wouldn't be able to turn into one.
That wasn't actually proof of the power of the druid, just proof of how a distracted DM can cause players to have a skewed perspective on the classes' true potential. Apart from that, if the table had fun playing it, more power to you all. Take care.
@@Morphineus Exactly this. A 20 moon druid might be the best damage sponge in the game, but otherwise not as amazing as they at first sound. The forms they can take are a bit underwhelming. If they could turn into dragons (which they very much cannot), they'd be massively over powered.
I never was interested in monks however watching this made me look up Way of Mercy and I have a character idea im currently writing that I LOVE, thank ya for the inspiration to look it up and help make this idea!
As someone who loves the monk class. At this point I wonder if giving a monk player a duel Subclass option is just more fair. Pick one of the better monk subclasses (as they said like 1 of 3) and then tag on an appropriate lower ranked subclass as a secondary specialty and see if its too much. I mean you still have action economy to consider so not sure if that would make it more fun.
@@TheLastSane1 I'd honestly just fix each subclass by giving them Prof bonus amount of uses of features that currently consume Ki and then the option to spend Ki to go beyond those initial uses. Also give the Elements monk spell slots of a half caster.
Even if that makes them strong its not raising the ceiling, just the duration of how long they can be effective.
I'd love to see a video in this vein about subclasses that are most fun to play at low levels (1-5)! Would be great advice for making one-shot characters.
Honestly the creation bard in my group is really good. Adds a decent combat bonus action and adds bonuses to the bardic inspiration that’s given. It adds to the core bard without taking away.
Really great video! The only ranking with the community that I vehemently disagreed with is fighter, just cause of how absolutely absurd Echo Knight is. I think not enough people have actually played in a game with one to realize how much better it is when compared to the PHB Battlemaster.
Better isn't always fun (it very well can be though.) Not saying echo isn't cool, it is, but Battlemaster just gives another layer of customization, and extra layer of numerous options in combat. Echo knight is king of positioning and battle field presence amongst fighters, but Battlemaster is way more flexible and adjustable based on the situations they find themselves in.
@@zeterzero4356 More customizable? yes. More flexible? Debatable. The point of this isn't to decide who is more fun and interesting though, it's to find out which is stronger. Echo Knight is simply the strongest option for the fighter.
@@malmasterson3890 Eeeeeh that's fair actually.
@@malmasterson3890 the issue with echo knight, is as they said, no one knows what the hell it does. When I read the class I had no clue what anything did lol
Recently completed a Tomb of Annihilation campaign, played a Goliath Bear Totem Warrior. Completely agree that that build is extremely difficult to kill. I was the only one from the 6 players to have their character survive from Session 0 to the epilogue; we had over a dozen characters total meet a long-term end to the campaign.
Dragonborn way of the dragon monk will always be my favorite. Using FOB into stunning strike into a dragon breath felt so good.
I can't wait to see what it is, and why is it blade singer 🤣🤣🤣
Here's the thing with Twilight Cleric. Anyone who plays one, will have a great time and a powerful character. I do not at all judge anyone who plays it, and I might play one myself. But I do think the subclass is busted/just so unbalanced against other subclasses in the game.
Just change the temp hp to be half level rounded down + 1d6. That fixes everything.
I have one in my Curse of Strahd campaign, may God have mercy on Strahds soul.
@@Gransterman oh dang. seriously though, my group is also playing CoS right now but when we rolled our characters, we didn’t know that’s what the adventure would be. I built a light cleric and thought I was overpowered until I looked at twilight! That Channel Divinity is going to make your DM tear their hair out, lol.
I can say very confidently that there are plenty of things in Strahd's castle that a Twilight Domain cleric wouldn't be able to handle other than Strahd.
I ran CoS with a party of 6 including a Twilight Cleric -- they still needed DM intervention not to TPK at multiple times. I am certain that in some campaigns, at some tables, with some groups, they can *feel* busted, but I never ocne was as frustrated by that as I was by the same player when he played a stunning-strike-happy monk...
Thanks a lot for so many great videos. I often find myself getting inspiration from them or noticing curiosities or things I had thought of before which I have found helpful both in-game and outside the game when helping others getting into DND.
In one of the campaigns I'm in I play a tempest cleric, and while I agree with your S-ranking in the cleric subclass videos, I can't help but feel that it is missing a little bit. I would have liked a bit more synergy overall. For Thunderbolt strike I don't really see a lot of ways to even deal lighting damage, even with their spells (I think it is only Wrath of the Storm and Call Lightning). They also don't have a lot of thunder spells either which means a limited synergy with Channel Divinity: Destructive Wrath. And last I was a little sad to see that Divine Strike and Thunderbolt didn't synergies either.
My Ideas were to allow Thunderbolt strike to affect both thunder and lightning damage, and perhaps rework the spell list a bit to include a few more lightning and thunder spells. Some examples I was looking at were; "Lightning Arrow" and "Storm Sphere", and maybe also re-flavouring some of the higher level spells like "Fire Storm" to be Lightning Storm and deal lightning damage instead.
I sometimes look to the Storm sorcerer and think that they look much more like the demigod of the storms than my tempest cleric.
What would you tweak, and how would you balance things if you were to update the Tempest Cleric?
Thank you in advance, and keep up the awesome work with so many good DND videos! :D
I'm playing an ex-carney Kobold Soulknife who used to knife-juggle and I've been running her with Fighting Initiate with the Thrown Weapons style and just throwing psychic daggers at everything, and it's both great fun, great flavor, and very powerful.