Exploring Pedal Tones (Pedal C to Double C) Trumpet Tips & Tricks with Charlie Porter
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- Trumpeter, Charlie Porter, demonstrates how correct practice of the pedal register can aid in developing a freer range and more flexibility on the trumpet.
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I practiced pedals so much that my band director switched me to trombone.
Lol that is funny
I practiced pedals so much that I gave up music and switched to bicycling
😂😭
This was almost cringe but it was so clever. Nice
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Very interesting. the first time I've heard an explanation as to why lower register pedal tones help develop the higher registers.
Thanks !
Larger mouthpiece makes a huge difference
If you're out busking with a little cornet, it's always a laugh to pop one of these pedal tones out.
I keep returning to this clip, because it really is among the most valuable clips for trumpeters I have found. My own practice sessions now always include pedals thanks to this lesson, and my playing has definitely improved because of it. Thank you, Charlie Porter!
I have played pedal tones for years, does wonders to improve your tone, endurance & to relax your lips. Some horn players don't utilize them but out of my experience, they are fundamental...in my opinion. great video my man.
This makes so much sense. I have only played the false pedal tones. This opens up a lot of my understanding of pedal tones. I'm finding them hard as I start. I will go to work on them daily.
hows your progress?
@@anonymoussmith4607 Well, that post of mine was 10 years ago. I'm still doing a lot of playing and practicing but I haven't given much thought to the 'real' pedal tones. I do a lot of the false pedal tones and I think that helps me quite a bit. I'm going to have to look into trying the real pedals again. I think I'm much closer to getting them this time around.
@@fredpalmer1984My trumpet teacher has me doing Thibaud exercises to help with pedals. There is a double pedal C to a double C exercise in there. It’s been helpful to consistency in range for me
@@levimccoy4127 Nice job! Keep at it. In the long run they'll get easier and improve your playing.
Excellent. Thanks Charlie. I remember playing pedal tones for fun when I first learned trumpet.
ATTENTION EVERYONE!
I had never really done anything with pedal tones and my high range was stuck around the Bb below double C, no matter what I did. I took this advice and started on pedal tones, and within a week I was able to reach double C and beyond. Not saying it will be that fast for everyone, but take Charlie's advice! Thanks Charlie Porter!
Good stuff …12 years later this is still exactly correct.
Thank you Charlie 👍🏻🎺
Thank you so much, this was a great help for me as I'm coming back to trumpet playing after 12 years!
Thanks Charlie! Your videos were the first I saw when I started playing the trumpet, and somehow everytime I watch them they still bring something fresh to change my playing. Cheers from Brazil !
robertonicolasz same but trombone
Flugel is conical by design, the length of the flugel starts small, and like a cone gets bigger toward the end. The trumpet is a constant parallel tubing until the bell. This makes it easier slotting pedal tones.
You’d think the conical bore would make pedals easier, since wider bores are more open with the low range.
@@bobcat24 peddle c and below are very easy and generally in tune on flugelhorn
CORRECT... THE FLUGELHORN AND THE CORNET ARE CONICAL BORE INSTRUMENTS... THE TRUMPET IS A CYLINDRICAL BORE !!!
Great presentation and explanation. I also found pedal C is 1st harmonic series for the trumpet last year, but couldn't explain well. Thank you for sharing this!!!
great to see someone who knows what they're doing blowing loud bassy low notes :) Motivated even more now, thanks!
thanks again Charlie thanks to your company through the screen ive pulled my first real, no-123fingered- 3rd slide out- pedal C LOL, and im also really thankful for all your content, its gold! i LOVE trumpet! thank you very much for real... god bless you
aalsooo! ive noticed that, opposed to the rest of the harmonic series (and also unlike the pedal tones above this pedal c), the pedal c resonates a lot in the chest, instead of the throat and closer to the roof of the mouth and mpc, as you go higher.... this felt resonating in the chest. its that image to recaall that lets me play it..
I watched this video several times. But only now, I understood.
Hey Charlie, would love an update on this video... I did some experimenting.
On my flugel I can slot the pedal with their natural valve combinations with both the flugel mouthpiece and trumpet mouthpiece.
On my trumpet I noticed that when using my flugelhorn mouthpiece (Denis Wick 2FL) I could slot the pedal tones somewhat reliably (a little foggy but probably work it out with practice? Perhaps foggyness is from flugel mouthpiece being a cone). Again, this is flugelhorn mouthpiece in Bb trumpet. With my Bach 1-1/4C the notes fizzle out in natural combination but I can play them with false fingerings and can slot pedal Bb to G open and can drop fingers to manipulate others. For me I've found that open slots pedal A and Ab well, then I prefer to use valve 2 for pedal G, 1 for E natural, and can manipulate other pedals down to double pedal C with 1-2-3 (probably all false tones although the sound seems "slotted") and can still come up while doing lip slurs.
Anyway here's my question... Do you think that the gear and the trumpet maker have anything to do with this? I know Monette focuses on the "pitch center" and Harrelson is big on "no energy wasted" as far as vibrations go (among other things) and perhaps these ideologies allow players to easily achieve these pedals (among other areas of the horn) with less effort? You're undoubtedly an absolutely amazing player and I have nothing but the upmost respect for you, it's just the only other guy I've met who can slot pedal C legitimately (no false tones) had custom gear. (Monette mouthpiece on some other custom horn)
Since I could do it on the flugel mouthpiece maybe it's the actual inside shape of the mouthpiece? (Cup vs Cone?)
Would love your thoughts... :)
This guys knows his stuff
Thanks for this great lesson.
It's mainly to do with lip vibration. I had the same problem up top on a Bach Strad large bore on a 1C mouthpiece. Try to force the vibration (I don't mean use pressure or hurt yourself), but if you mouthpiece buzz, then do that to try to get the vibration to happen first. Do it quietly too. Don't worry if it's raspy/airy/odd sounding, just get the vibration first. Also, don't overblow, or play for too long up there. Within a few weeks, the notes should start to sound like proper notes.
Thank you very much for this insight, Charlie.
You are amazing! I have no other words.
this video helped increase my range up a perfect 4th... thanks so much.. i love my pedal tones.. i feel great!
Hi Charlie. I love your videos, they are all extremely helpful and we all should thank you for all the passion you put in getting this material avaiable on You Tube. Still, physically speaking, I know that true pedal tones are naturally flat on the trumpet in particular, because of it being "not as much conical", thus having not as big of a bell, to shift up those natural frequencies where they need to be. So, we are not playing note that exist, we are lipping up notes that exist and are flat to notes that "should exist", right? I would love an answer from you, thanks in advance!
Great post...pedal tones are veryyyy important.
you're a cool cat charlie :) please keep teaching. i'm 46 and just learning (along with my son who is in 5th grade band)
Cant wait to try this when I get home!
great video , my register improving a lot now , took lot time but it works !
Yo Charlie, this vid is really really cool. It's definitley helped me adapt my thinking about range and registers. And I have found that once you get used to playing the octaves slurs in and out of the pedal register, you start to realise how close together everything actually is. My only question to you is, why do you not count double pedal C as part of the C harmonic series?
top quality lesson
Is your down lip always inside the mouthpiece while playing the pedals Charlie? Thanks for short answering!😀
Thank you, sir. That was huge help.
I am so glad that I found this video because that is ME! I have NEVER been able to get the pedal tones from pedal C down to Ab. I do play them with false fingerings (1-2-3) and can easily hit them, but get a thin, airy sound. As soon as I hit pedal G (played open fingering), it is a big fat sound and I can continue down to double pedal C with the correct fingerings and big sound, but not pedal C down to Ab. Why is this? What am I doing wrong?
Some of the best trumpet lessons I've gotten! This has helped my range so much than I expected, thank you
Amigo. Gracias por todo lo que muestras. Eres muy bueno. Te mando abrazos desde Chile.
Colega-
it's very useful to new trumpet player thanks a lot
good stuff. Havent picked up my trumpet in a few years. You got me wanting to pick it back up.
awesome video...your off center soul patch was driving crazy though
Charlie, can I ask this ...... did you have a good high register before taking on and perfecting the pedals?
Felicitaciones maestro esta interesante su enseñanza. Como quisiera esta explicación en español
I just wanted to say Thank You for your videos! im a beginner and you`ve been helped me a lot! Thank you my friend. tack care.
Thank you! You are great both at playing and teaching!
I got a mellophone mouthpiece with a used cornet. Not knowing any better at first, I thought it was just a vintage cornet mpc. It added about an octave and a half to my low register. Unfortunately I can't get anywhere near the upper notes but I can pretty much emulate the bass brass instruments. Funny how much is riding on the mouthpiece used.
Cool lesson!!! The secret of the top is the bottom!
Many thanks! Great information!
Excellent exercice !!!
Thanks, Charlie, your videos are really helpful!
Thanks for your clear example!
if you're having trouble getting the pedal c out on the horn, practice it on the mouthpiece but keeping the same embouchure like he says. Any one else find success with this technique? Thanks for this video Charlie! happy practicing everyone
Wow, excellent control.
Great job Charlie!
Thank you sir....should help me great with my high register.
Fascinating, Mr. Porter. Finally, I understand the pedal tones and their importance in understanding and developing notes above them. They're not easy to do. It will take time to get them right. Thank you!!
This video helps a lot. Thanks Charlie!
I simply can't get a pedal C out at all! Pedal G/A are the highest I can go without it immediately skipping to a super flat low C. There's gotta be something I'm missing.
I just tried it out. You need a godly amount of air going through the trumpet
This has been my struggle for years...my G below and lower is super clear and round, but I'm missing basically an entire octave
The actual resonance of the fundamental is VERY flat on trumpet. Play it flat at first. Charlie is not explaining that.
How are you playing a pedal A if you can’t even play a pedal C?
@@bobcat24 I'm the same -- I can easily blow a pedal C on the flugelhorn, but on the trumpet, it's different. I blow a relaxed sound like a vuvuzela or an airplane, then refine it to get a tone out of it. However, that note is not a pedal C (concert B-flat), it's actually a pedal A (concert G), and I can gliss easily between our G and A (concert F and G). I can lip it up to a concert B-flat if I *really* curl the lips in toward the teeth (at the center) the way we've been told when trying to play really high notes (e.g. regarding the Warburton P.E.T.E. device).
Does this suggest that the embouchure that allows me to blow a pedal G is actually too loose, and that the curled-in "high-note" embouchure is correct?
My analogy with many trumpet instructional videos (as great as they are) is like instructing someone who is 4'-6" tall about how to dunk a basketball in a 10' goal. Without unlimited buzz capabilities no amount of effort is going to make any difference. First make the player 7'-6" tall and then teach them how to dunk. The only way to achieve unlimited buzz capabilities is custom mouthpiece designing which is what I do. Instantaneous improvement is exactly what can happen. It's almost 100% about lip interaction with the mouthpiece. Because we can't modify our anatomy, we are left with only the mouthpiece. Changing the trumpet has very little to do with it. Learning becomes automatic once the buzz problem has been solved. It's like telling everyone to wear size 7 shoes no matter what, just make your foot fit. Wrong answer. We don't all fit into a traditional mouthpiece. Trying that for 40 years didn't work for me. I think someone who can naturally play and buzz easily creates a certain disconnect with a player who can't do it no matter how hard they try. Now you can do it or at least you have that hope and an option.
just started playing also. look up a book called "a tune a day" (for trumpet). it was recommended to me, i'm finding it very helpful.
Thank you very much, Charlie. I will apply your suggestions right away... I hope I can help my fellow peers as well, from your advice. Thank you =]
I struggle with just playing the pedal c i get some really low not and feel i have to bend up to the pedal C. not sure why
When I try to play a pedal C, the A below it comes out with a clear tone and by going down chromatically from there, I can get down to Eb still with a rather clear tone, am I lowering my jaw too much?
williamsonsmd I get to the C# then fall to the G# below instead of C (no valves). I just can't seem to get the notes between pedal G# up to and including pedal C.☹️
Same here...actually....
I know this is late, and others have explained it, but that's the actual resonance/harmonic of your horn. Find that clear tone and then, essentially, bring it up as you tone up your embouchure.
You shouldn't drop your jaw at all, or liping down. My teacher told me that I have to hold my lips same as middle g or low c an just drop my tongue or there will be air in those notes and they won't be clean.
Thank you for the video, very easy to understand. Can I ask, how much practice should I be doing to improve? Or better yet I want to be as good as you , a professional Musician.
Great video, however, I have watched other teachers pull off the F pedal without any false fingering. Connecting pedals is tough. I am going to keep on trying.😮💨
Thanks, Charlie! Cool vid man, very informative!!
Thanx bro, awesome knowlege, well explained!
The pedal C in the open position does not seem to exist. I have to hit something lower and try to lip it up. So, I just don't get it.
Try at first using the false,then do it with the open fingering
Use a godly amount of air
Awesome! thanks alot!!! You should tour around L.A and Pensacola Fl sometime
Wow ! I didn't know trumpeters could jump octaves so quickly like you do at the end! Incredible!!! .Didn't know u had that low pedal C. I need to rewrite both my trumpet concerti. Piston didn't get absorbed in my mind. I hope Adler or Kenan discusses false pedals . now cadenza time. I need to watch all yo bids and see more current performance techniques!!! I've never heard this type of trumpet figurations. I need to hear some contemporary and jazz work too ! thanks a lot!
Thanks for good video
I've really been enjoying watching your videos. You are truly a fine musician, and I might add a master educator. Hearing you struggle on some of these pedal tones, even though I know you can play so beautifully, gives me hope! I sometimes listen to the sounds I make and get discouraged, but it's nice to know that everyone is human and experiences the same "ugliness" in the pursuit of beauty. Thank you so much for this.
Sorry, but I am a trumpet newbie, but combinatorics nerd, asking out of curiosity:
As there are three valves, shouldn't there be 8 distinct harmonic series (resulting from the choices 000, 001, 010, 011, 100, 101, 110, 111, with 1 meaning "valve down" and 0 meaning "valve up")?
Does two of the valve combinations result in the same harmonic series (or maybe one being one octave above the other, thus hardly contributing any interesting new frequencies)?
I have noticed that the pedal C is flat as well. Since I play multiple brass instruments when I play a pedal Bb on my trombone its in almost perfect pitch. I believe this is due to that non conical tubing that a trumpet doesn't have even though trombone isn't conical either. I just think that naturally the harmonic series sort of "dies off" in the low register. which is why a piccolo trumpet has a fourth valve so the lower register is in tune. Same with tuba, euphonium, baritone, and even the F trigger on a trombone and F and Gb triggers on a bass trombone.
Great video and explanation. I've not yet been able to secure a pedal C, it was only a few minutes ago playing along with you from F down, that I managed to sound the note alongside you. I've been able to reach notes several intervals below however. What I find is that if I play low for a bit I cant seem to go comfortably higher. Like after trying these pedals for just a few minutes, I am struggling to get to top line F comfortably for several minutes. I really struggle to get above G# anyway.
I'm a Freshman in highschool and I've played trumpet since 5th grade (so about 4 years, on my 5th). If I practice almost every day, could you reccomend me a technique that will help me with my upper registrar? I can only get to above the staff G and sometimes the A above it, but is sounds bad. Thanks for the help
Ed Gy Focus on how much air you put through your trumpet rather than how tight your embrasure is. Start on the highest note you can comfortably play with good tone, then increase the volume to as loud as you can (you'll find you will need to loosen your embrasure as you go louder to avoid making the note sharp or slotting a note above). From there slowly tighten your embrasure like you are simply slurring up. This will be easier to do because you're putting more air through. Another thing is to just go somewhere quiet and play high notes as much as you can, almost like a mouth workout. Just squeak out the highest pitches you can and mess around with it for an hour or so. I started doing this early my junior year almost everyday, and I could go to about an e or f comfortably. I'm going to be a senior this year, and I can go anywhere up to the double c, and I've squeaked a triple c once or twice
same deal with me, except im a sophomore and i cant play any higher than top c
Im in 8th and summer will be my 2nd year, i can play to a high g on lucky days but i practice scales like the two octave g major scale that starts on g in the staff then go to a high g above, pretty hard but at the end i can play them pretty solid.☺
Listen to a lot of good trumpet players! This is not a replacement for good technique, but it's helped me a lot. I've only been playing two years and I can comfortably hit a high C and occasionally up to the F above that. I know that's not an insane range, but I've developed the top end of it in only a few months. I would recommend Louis Armstrong.
Jim Gilbert Wayne Bergeron, Eric Miyashiro,Maynard Ferguson, or Arturo Sandoval
What are some exercises available that you recommend to help get to the point to play pedal C?
!!!many thanks ur such a good teacher i like u!!!!!!
you're great!
This is an old video, but I have a problem getting to the pedal C, and I'm hoping that you or someone else can help me out. When I play the regular C, I then go down to G, E and then when I try to get the pedal C, the pitch is way too low, and I cannot seem to get the pedal to come out without pressing the valves down. Will this just come with practice or am I doing something wrong? Been working on this for over 6 months now. Thanks!
I have the same problem, my pedal C comes out as pedal A when I do it without valves, and when I lip it up to the C it looses tone. It's almost seems like A wants to be the natural no valves pedal tone.
Nathan Desautels same here, though I get Ab then pull it up in tune to an A, but I can figure out how to get pedal C, B, and Bb at all. I must be doing something wrong.
my teacher told me that it should actually be an Bb, and from that Bb, you lip up to C... He was using a german trumpet but he also took my own trumpet and played the pedal C. Now i think im just doing something wrong.
Tmillz316 make sure to have your jaw in the right position that he showed us
In my opinion it's easier to get it out coming straight from a low C, not a false pedal E. Also, I'm fairly certain that there is not a pedal C resonance on the trumpet (heard this from stomvi videos and read about it in some brass physics pages). After a month or so of failing I just kinda popped it out one day. It takes a butt-ton of air and lots of attempts.
I've practiced pedal tones, but i practice these with other positions that my teacher taught me; F(1,2)E(2,3)Eb(1,3)D(1,2,3)Db(1,2,3)C(0), and he told me that he wants me to practice like that because this are the most difficult positions to play pedal tones.
Actually that is not really pedaltones but fake tones, the positions your teacher taught you are actually much better. You can really get a good sound on them.
I want to thank you. im a beginner and you´ve helped me a lot! Thx buddy.
is there any reason why the pedal C on the flugelhorn is easier than on trumpet?
What mouthpiece are you playing on? Or what do you recommend for a mid-highschool student?
This looks extremely difficult.
+Scott Lum It is.
+Scott Lum Anything below low G (pedal tones) is nearly impossible on trumpet and anything above Double C is almost painful. Haha :)
I have a friend that played tuba and could barely play above pedal G
Nothing is difficult, it's just unfamiliar.
@Mason Abney I'm guessing he means that ur not used to playing high and ur unfamiliar by not knowing where and how to put your lips, here's a tip, I'm surprised people dont know this, but to play higher dont use pressure on the mouthpiece, u need to tighten your lips with little pressure, I'm 15 and I actually hit a triple g, I do sound wavy at the triple g but I am able to hold it for a little, and the only thing I did was play high notes all the time, I used to have braces and they used to hurt me a lot, but I think they may have also made my chops stronger, I'm not sure Tbh, and I can also play pedal notes with ease, it's all about practice and repeat
Merci !très bon pédagogue
😏
😏
Thanks!
This is very cool. But I'm wondering. On the flugelhorn, the pedal C is not that hard to get out. On the trumpet i think its kinda hard (i thought it didnt even exist) and on the cornet its even worse. My question is: does the pedal C exist on all these instruments? Or just on some trumpets/all flugelhorns?
are you still using a set apurture for the peddle notes?
How I wish I could start over with you as teacher, Charlie!
I play only flugel these days, and pedals seem much different-for instance,
the first pedalC doesn't seem to come out, only the the next one down. What's
the difference playing pedals on flugel?
Is this at all applicable to the Tuba, by any chance?
which mouthpiece is that? coming back I have a jupiter pocket trumpet with a c7 and can't WAIT to get a nicer one.
Before reading the comments, I had no idea people had so much trouble with pedals. I play in a brass band, and all the cornets use pedals to warm down...
Charlie I would like to buy your album but its not available on itunes
Hey man thanks...just got a whisper mute ...i ll look for that book
How did u hit pedal c? I kept going down to A but I couldn't get higher
Wouldn't it be be pissible to attain evzn lower notes with a tuba mouthpiece? I've never tried, but I often feel like the mouthpiece itself is preventing my lips to vibrate at a lower frequency, especially because of its small diameter.
I have the problem of not accessing the pedal C without a false fingering. whenever I try and drop to the pedal C, I consistently hit the Pedal B. Any advice?
You don't need to arch your tongue, per se. It can help if it works for you, I keep my tongue down above high C and use my tongue to shake up there. But the thing is, it works different for everyone depending on embouchure/air/compression from core. Do what works for you! Just don't pull to much so you don't hurt yourself and try different things at home during practice. I play with a slightly puckered embouchure and I stay as relaxed as I can but my core is rock solid for compressed air.
Why do they call them pedal tones? And what does that slide thingy on my ring finger do? I've seen some people extend it for some notes, I played with it and it had no effect.
top! difícil é entender inglês
I can't play a pedal C on trumpet, when I try it comes out to like a Bb or A and when I try to lip up it loses its depth. Although I tried this on my flugel horn and the Pedal C is strong and in tune with regular low C, very interesting.