Thank you so much for this broadcast. It seems to me that the common theme today is that people need help and support: Mr Raab may well have been more supportive himself if people had been more up front with him from the beginning. Diane Abbott really, really needs sympathy and support today because of her years of fighting for justice; this one mistake should not be held against her. Rory very clearly described what it was like to have to act without support. Finally your discussion of suicide emphasised how important it is for people to talk about their problems. I have been very near the edge myself and your conversation made me cry. Thank you so much.
Women & children first HMS Birkenhead, also referred to as HM Troopship Birkenhead or Steam Frigate Birkenhead, was one of the first iron-hulled ships built for the Royal Navy. She was designed as a steam frigate, but was converted to a troopship before being commissioned While transporting troops and a few civilians to Algoa Bay, the Birkenhead was wrecked on 26 February 1852 at Danger Point near Gansbaai, 87 miles (140 km) from Cape Town in the Cape Colony. There were insufficient serviceable lifeboats for all the passengers, and the soldiers famously stood in ranks on board, thereby allowing the women and children to board the boats safely and escape the sinking. Only 193 of the estimated 643 people on board survived, and the soldiers' chivalry gave rise to the unofficial "women and children first" protocol when abandoning ship, known as the the "Birkenhead drill". Thus the "Birkenhead drill" of Rudyard Kipling's poem came to describe courage in the face of hopeless circumstances.
Thank you for putting the disclaimer at the beginning that you were going to talk about suicide. I struggle quite badly with anxiety so will be giving this one a miss but be sure I'll be back for the next episode.
Thank you for speaking on suicide. The taboo on discussion of the problem, just like that on drugs, leads to more harm. My father's side of the family has struggled with this, but the taboo is still there. The suicide of my dad's brother had a terrible effect on me, and must have had the same on him, but I don't dare to speak to him about it. It's already very hard to talk to him about anything at all emotional. I hope the work that Alistair is doing, along with others, leads to some changes. Thank you.
If Richi hadn’t given Rabb a first took at the Report Dom would have put Sunac’s head down the toilet and flushed it and not given him back his dinner money!
Samaritans have been around for years where everybody who contacts them are asked about suicidal feelings. Neither of you mentioned them. They do have expertise in this field and can help Government, so why did you not mention them?
Why. If you are a life long labour voter you must have been aware of Alastair Campbell before now. Plus he is not involved in government anymore so difficult in what sense is it difficult?
No I don’t agree. Rory is a Tory apologist too much. And he’s got a blind spot about sunak who is only marginally better than Johnson or truss. He needs to become a Lib Dem.
Yeah, I'm more Labour too and I cannot stand the tories, would never vote for them, I respect a lot of Alistair's views but it is jarring how blatantly biased he is towards Labour and overtly critical of the Tories
I really enjoy these podcasts. But not this time. Not because it was because of any drop in the insights and quality of two commentators. But because the program, for me, was constantly being interrupted by advertisements. Maybe ten times. It breaks the flow of the conversation. Interrupts the commentary in mid sentence. On one occasion the advert flipped into a potentially +30 minute commercial webinar. I felt that my podcast had been hijacked by commercial interests. It is especially annoying when you are up a ladder working and it is difficult to hit the ‘skip adverts’ button. Is this caused by the podcast owners, or by TH-cam ?
Bullies and psychopaths have many uses in government and corporations. They do the dirty work of higher-ups and give them someone to sack instead of doing anything difficult, like changing the culture.
"Last great taboo"? How about end of life issues? I would like to be able to end my life when I choose, without risk of inconveniencing other people, without risk of saddening other people, without risk of not managing it completely, and without risk of pain. Not being able to do so, and being mortally ill will usually inconvenience and sadden people, and include pain and indignity. It can be done, end of life suicide, but it's also a great taboo, and so it isn't straightforward; you have to study and work at it, and it isn't 100% secure. I find it highly unenlightened.
I really love this podcast and both guys but especially Rory. He is such an intellectual and comes across as a sincere, decent man, the sort you would want running the country. Unfortunately, the membership of the tory party (or other parties for that matter) do not tend to recognise these qualities.
5:00 Oh yes Alistair you lot did change quite a lot but forgot to reverse Thatcherism, the tuition fees and lack of debate on what happened to oil wealt (UKextracted slightly more than Norway did) and then 13 years of Cons in power 🤦
Wow. The analysis of Abbot (now the leading figure of the far left in the party) completely ignoring the recent reports from the EHRC on multiple unlawful acts of discrimination and harassment of Jewish people from within the labour party was alarming. The far lefts dislike of Jews is endemic within its ideology. To brush off Abbot's racism and for Rory to `hope she stays in politics' is appalling in its lack of understanding. Compare this to Raab getting panned for errr `making people uncomfortable' in meetings and being able to defend himself in interviews!
Anti-Semitism is not endemic to the left, any more than the right, although the right in the US is much more comfortable with it. The main issue for many is the refusal of my government (the US) and many others to push back against the racism and violence of the right in Israel, which is portrayed by rightists as Anti-Semitism. This is nonsense, as many Israeli Jews don't support the government on this.
I agree with Raab, the bar has been set very low for what constitutes bullying. Interrupting people and criticism of quality of work etc are not bullying. People have different styles and millions of people have bosses who use the same techniques to get things done as Raab does. People being intimidated by his size is just silly.
he got punched when he worked in den haag at the warcrimes tribunal , for the same offences, he picked it seems on somebody who didnt back down.. he is a bad manager simple ..
@@xavierhucklenbruch1798 It would seem to me the person who threw the punch is the one in the wrong. Most of the people who grew huge business empires from nothing have a management style similar to Raab's. It's neither right or wrong.
@@radman8321 it happened across three departments over 10 years, there may have been a malign politically charged element to all these complaints happening at once, but it doesn't change the fact he is a shitty manager
He has a history, going back to NDAs about his behaviour which you can find on the web, also if you read the article about reaction in his constituency a young voter was appalled by his behaviour when he visited her school. If his letter of resignation doesn't highlight the true character of the man I don't know would does. But, quite apart from all that in every cabinet post he held he was hopeless. And just for further clarification listen to the civil servant who phoned in to James O'Briens show on LBC yesterday.
Thank you so much for this broadcast. It seems to me that the common theme today is that people need help and support: Mr Raab may well have been more supportive himself if people had been more up front with him from the beginning. Diane Abbott really, really needs sympathy and support today because of her years of fighting for justice; this one mistake should not be held against her. Rory very clearly described what it was like to have to act without support. Finally your discussion of suicide emphasised how important it is for people to talk about their problems. I have been very near the edge myself and your conversation made me cry. Thank you so much.
Abbot doesn’t need sympathy, as some with her life experiences, she should know better.
Women & children first
HMS Birkenhead, also referred to as HM Troopship Birkenhead or Steam Frigate Birkenhead, was one of the first iron-hulled ships built for the Royal Navy. She was designed as a steam frigate, but was converted to a troopship before being commissioned
While transporting troops and a few civilians to Algoa Bay, the Birkenhead was wrecked on 26 February 1852 at Danger Point near Gansbaai, 87 miles (140 km) from Cape Town in the Cape Colony. There were insufficient serviceable lifeboats for all the passengers, and the soldiers famously stood in ranks on board, thereby allowing the women and children to board the boats safely and escape the sinking.
Only 193 of the estimated 643 people on board survived, and the soldiers' chivalry gave rise to the unofficial "women and children first" protocol when abandoning ship, known as the the "Birkenhead drill". Thus the "Birkenhead drill" of Rudyard Kipling's poem came to describe courage in the face of hopeless circumstances.
Give Mrs Churchill her due, she handled that far better than I would've.
'Stop being a prick, you prick!' doesn't quite have the same ring.
A well thought out treatment of the Abbott affair.
Thank you for putting the disclaimer at the beginning that you were going to talk about suicide. I struggle quite badly with anxiety so will be giving this one a miss but be sure I'll be back for the next episode.
great book Rory !!
Thank you for speaking on suicide. The taboo on discussion of the problem, just like that on drugs, leads to more harm. My father's side of the family has struggled with this, but the taboo is still there. The suicide of my dad's brother had a terrible effect on me, and must have had the same on him, but I don't dare to speak to him about it. It's already very hard to talk to him about anything at all emotional. I hope the work that Alistair is doing, along with others, leads to some changes. Thank you.
as a civil servant I will say this. I am politically active but like all my colleagues I leave out of my work
If Richi hadn’t given Rabb a first took at the Report Dom would have put Sunac’s head down the toilet and flushed it and not given him back his dinner money!
Samaritans have been around for years where everybody who contacts them are asked about suicidal feelings. Neither of you mentioned them. They do have expertise in this field and can help Government, so why did you not mention them?
As a pretty much life long labour voter , Campbell makes it really fuckin difficult. Rory meanwhile is achieving national treasure status
Why. If you are a life long labour voter you must have been aware of Alastair Campbell before now. Plus he is not involved in government anymore so difficult in what sense is it difficult?
No I don’t agree. Rory is a Tory apologist too much. And he’s got a blind spot about sunak who is only marginally better than Johnson or truss. He needs to become a Lib Dem.
Yeah, I'm more Labour too and I cannot stand the tories, would never vote for them, I respect a lot of Alistair's views but it is jarring how blatantly biased he is towards Labour and overtly critical of the Tories
I really enjoy these podcasts. But not this time. Not because it was because of any drop in the insights and quality of two commentators. But because the program, for me, was constantly being interrupted by advertisements. Maybe ten times. It breaks the flow of the conversation. Interrupts the commentary in mid sentence. On one occasion the advert flipped into a potentially +30 minute commercial webinar. I felt that my podcast had been hijacked by commercial interests. It is especially annoying when you are up a ladder working and it is difficult to hit the ‘skip adverts’ button. Is this caused by the podcast owners, or by TH-cam ?
Raab, Williamson, Patel; do the Conservatives value bullies?
They value everything they need but they never pay the full price...
Bullies and psychopaths have many uses in government and corporations. They do the dirty work of higher-ups and give them someone to sack instead of doing anything difficult, like changing the culture.
"Last great taboo"? How about end of life issues? I would like to be able to end my life when I choose, without risk of inconveniencing other people, without risk of saddening other people, without risk of not managing it completely, and without risk of pain. Not being able to do so, and being mortally ill will usually inconvenience and sadden people, and include pain and indignity. It can be done, end of life suicide, but it's also a great taboo, and so it isn't straightforward; you have to study and work at it, and it isn't 100% secure. I find it highly unenlightened.
Can you imagine the likes of Rees-Mogg and Johnson being in Rory's position? There are men and crypto-men and we know which side Rory is on.
I really love this podcast and both guys but especially Rory. He is such an intellectual and comes across as a sincere, decent man, the sort you would want running the country. Unfortunately, the membership of the tory party (or other parties for that matter) do not tend to recognise these qualities.
5:00 Oh yes Alistair you lot did change quite a lot but forgot to reverse Thatcherism, the tuition fees and lack of debate on what happened to oil wealt (UKextracted slightly more than Norway did) and then 13 years of Cons in power 🤦
Amazing how friendly and chatty this well-known x bully can be...
Wow. The analysis of Abbot (now the leading figure of the far left in the party) completely ignoring the recent reports from the EHRC on multiple unlawful acts of discrimination and harassment of Jewish people from within the labour party was alarming.
The far lefts dislike of Jews is endemic within its ideology.
To brush off Abbot's racism and for Rory to `hope she stays in politics' is appalling in its lack of understanding.
Compare this to Raab getting panned for errr `making people uncomfortable' in meetings and being able to defend himself in interviews!
Oh dear.
Anti-Semitism is not endemic to the left, any more than the right, although the right in the US is much more comfortable with it. The main issue for many is the refusal of my government (the US) and many others to push back against the racism and violence of the right in Israel, which is portrayed by rightists as Anti-Semitism. This is nonsense, as many Israeli Jews don't support the government on this.
You chastise them for supposedly going too easy on Abbott then follow it up by inferring they were too hard on Raab, says it all really
I agree with Raab, the bar has been set very low for what constitutes bullying. Interrupting people and criticism of quality of work etc are not bullying. People have different styles and millions of people have bosses who use the same techniques to get things done as Raab does. People being intimidated by his size is just silly.
he got punched when he worked in den haag at the warcrimes tribunal , for the same offences, he picked it seems on somebody who didnt back down.. he is a bad manager simple ..
@@xavierhucklenbruch1798 It would seem to me the person who threw the punch is the one in the wrong.
Most of the people who grew huge business empires from nothing have a management style similar to Raab's. It's neither right or wrong.
@@radman8321 it happened across three departments over 10 years, there may have been a malign politically charged element to all these complaints happening at once, but it doesn't change the fact he is a shitty manager
@@xavierhucklenbruch1798 I think a lot of people would like to buy that man a drink!!
He has a history, going back to NDAs about his behaviour which you can find on the web, also if you read the article about reaction in his constituency a young voter was appalled by his behaviour when he visited her school. If his letter of resignation doesn't highlight the true character of the man I don't know would does. But, quite apart from all that in every cabinet post he held he was hopeless. And just for further clarification listen to the civil servant who phoned in to James O'Briens show on LBC yesterday.