From the very first time that I heard this, it makes SO much more sense than the usual performed version. As for criticism that it is too “bombastic/MGM”..... have you heard the rest of the opera? Puccini’s masterpiece, so sadly not completed by the composer, deserves such a stratospheric final scene. It seems so very logical that the principals are still singing to the final chords.
Finally! a final scene to balance the riddle scene. No doubt some of the additional material is uninspired, but what is crucial is the expansion of time that makes Turandot's transformation credible and the ending thus emotionally satisfying. To all opera producers: restore this ending!
Wow!!...Heard this with NYCO in 1984..it brought down the house...an incredibly dramatic ending with principals floating above the chorus...love the alfano ending!!! thanks for sharing the newer recording...
I just heard the recording of the 1984 NYCO performance today on TH-cam - I believe one of the first times the Alfano ending was exhumed. No wonder it "brought down the house". A greater psychological complexity reflected in the Alfano version and two fantastic leads (Linda Kelm, Turandot / John West, Calaf). th-cam.com/video/Qt0Bzl0BxyU/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/ONPK-2j5KFE/w-d-xo.html
Absolutely stunning! If only Birgit Nilsson and Jussi Bjoerling had recorded to include, as an appendix, the alternate version ending to the Leinsdorf RCA set, can you all just imagine?! I had heard hints of this alternate ending from the Turandot solo part within that original last act, which Lotte Lehmann recorded in German back in I believe 1927, and I was SO intrigued by it. (It was on The Art of Lotte Lehmann, a Seraphim Great Recordings of the Century LP 2-record set released in the mid 1970s) Thank you so much for posting this marvelous item.
I hadn't gotten to revisit this in awhile... I'm sorry, but the sudden reharmonization on the chorus' "ride e cantata nel sole..." in the last minute of the opera is like the biggest "Yessss!" moment for me. I find myself running it back to catch that, it's a big hallmark of this version.
I first saw Turandot live at the Lyric Opera in Chicago, with Birget Neilson in the title role.....that was in either 1959 or 1960.....and was completely blown away by the effect of the chorale in the finale, with Neilson's voice soaring majestically above the rest. That sound stayed with me all the way home! The only thing comparable I've experienced was the Deis Irae from Verdi's Requiem while singing in the chorus with the Chicago Symphony.
@@trevorcorso473 Um...can't agree with you there. Usually, Liu dies, we barely have enough time to register the shock, and then Turandot is healed by love. Boom, just like that, barely any to-do. I much prefer the Alfano version for its better sense of pacing and attention to Turandot's gradual awakening. The soaring voices of the principals over the chorus also reinforce the overriding message of the opera.
@@trevorcorso473The only reason you would possibly say that is because it’s different than what you’re used to. Musically and especially dramatically, it is far superior to the version that has become traditional.
FAR superior to the ending we've all become accustomed to hearing. Josephine Barstow does a hell of a job here. What a shame that the incomparable Birgit Nilsson never sang this ending. She would have sailed through it like a whirlwind. Of course, this ending compounds the vocal difficulty of an already all but impossible-to-sing role. Thanks so much for posting this. This is a real treasure!
Thanks for posting! This is much better then what we are use to. I saw Turandot at Caracalla in Rome in 1989 with the original ending and it is more difficult to perform. I saw 4 performances and by the 4th they had substituted the ending we are familiar with as they said the original needed more practice...
Thanks for posting. I've always liked this original ending; i agree with the comment below that the edited ending goes by too quickly, although it sounds more Puccini-like than does this version. The New York City Opera in the 1990's used this ending in its production of "Turandot".
Thank you for this post! Alfano's finale has been too often and unfairly criticized as full of odds about harmony and form. The version we know appears incoherent, full of hasty harmonic modulations and with a shallow treatment of Puccini's musical materials: it's full of musical nonsenses! But in this version we can understand (and appreciate) Alfano's dramatic and musical skill... And, unfortunately, Toscanini's guilty operation of cuts and bad adjustments. We have to say sorry to Alfano!
WOW I love this original Alfano ending!!!!!! I have never heard it but it now seems more harmonically correct...and it is not as bombastic sounding as the Toscanini version! Gosh! Why isn't THIS version performed now instead!???
Ohmioddio... la versione estesa è stupenda! Anche se a volte perde un po' di consistenza, non so come spiegarlo... però è migliore di quella di Berio (bbbbbbrrrrrrrr) e dell'Alfano II... molto più coerente! Grazie *___* I love it! Thank you. *___*
@marcnycity I'm a bit confused. You say "Toscanini didn't like it and edited it. Of the Alfano I version, about three minutes were cut for performance by Toscanini and it is this shortened version that is usually performed" But that doesn't seem to tell the whole story. What we hear is not just a shortened version which one can explain as editing. We also hear whole sections that are completely re-composed. For example, the "Il mio mister" solo is TOTALLY different. So it's not clear to me who composed this new music for "Alfano II." Was it Toscanini? I'm not clear. Is the version normally performed in fact composed as much by Toscanini, if not more, as by Alfano? Like I say, I'm confused.
This longer ending also gives Princess Turandot more time to soften and fall in love with Calaf by understanding love and getting over her own rancor towrd her own past negativity toward all men because of what she suffered.
Molto, molto meglio di quella porcheria di finale cui siamo abituati. Toscanini non capiva un accidente, ha preso un finale pieno di senso musicale e coerente col resto dell'opera e l'ha trasformato in un'americanata. Infatti piace agli americani. Dagli trombe tromboni tamburi e li fai contenti.
Amazing to me that anyone thinks there's some sort of night and day difference between the quality of the original ending and the shortened version. I would say it's not even close to a night and day difference, but I guess some people have to claim it is because they think that sounds more dramatic.
This version of the ending is impressive. Pappano has used it for his new Turandot recording, though he doesn't do it complete justice. What recording is this?
Your reasoning about giving Calaf more time to fall in love with Turandot makes a lot of sense from a dramatic standpoint....let the musicologists argue over the compositional merits and so forth.
This is eye-opening; about to conduct the current Alfano II in performance, and this really helps me understand where it all comes from. I cannot tell what the chorus word(s) is after Turandot's "amor" (his name is love) before the big final tune. In Alfano II, they simply echo "amor" but awkwardly on beat four of the "power motive" in the brass. In this version, they come in much more logically, and there are clearly some more syllables, here. Can anyone figure it out?
Yeah I managed to get a hold of the original Alfano I vocal score, and I had the chorus sing “Amore” at that exact spot even though the orchestra had Alfano II parts because at least in that moment they are the same in the orchestra. I also changed the last word in the chorus to Amor from “A te”, another drawback in Alfano II from this first version. Clearly the poor guy had had it so he just cobbled together something to pass Toscanini’s muster. Not that Toscanini ever conducted it, anyway, so it’s like he got rejected twice. Why bother doing the version Toscanini never deigned to conduct? We should just go back to this version and be done with it, just like we accept the Süssmayr completion of Mozart’s Requiem.
Just wanted to say that I accidentally pressed dont like button while trying to add this video into favourites :(( Can you imagine!!!! Sry :( Thank you so much for posting!
Thanks a lot for posting, the Aalto theatre in Essen, Germany is playing this version with just a couple of cuts until the end of March. Really good production I have to say. Can you tell us from whom the posted version is? Thanks
This ending, I think makes the soprano role even more difficult than it already is. The underlining of those stratospheric top notes at the end sound terribly difficult. I'm sure that Birgit Nilsson would and could have handled it, but for what logical reason?
Turandot herself really has a short role; I think most sopranos I know would be happy to sing a few more notes. Puccini and other Verismo composers place similar demands on their; the music here didn't strike me as being outlandish, and the soprano navigated it just fine.
I understand what you mean about Calaf's character. it does help. But the Alfano II musically has better structure. I believe that what was cut out had created melody and tempi changes that got in the way. But this is so much better than that new version that so many say they think is true to Puccini's note: but I don;t hear it. It is way too modern and Alfano, a student of Puccini, new his teachers voice. Besides, the new version is also UGLY! But the last few measures Alfano I is spectacular.
Alfano's music is fine, but the libretto in this section doesn't make any sense at all, It doesn't add to the story, it distracts from the original story. This is a fantasy based on ice and fire. Turandot is Ice and Calaf is fire. It is the ying and yang concept, they complete each other, you don't need further contrivances. The tile of opera might be Turandot, but Calaf is featured much more than Turandot.
kbh prinsesse i don’t think so... the typical Toscanini-cut-Version goes far to fast to the end. In my opinion, This is so much better, especially for the homogeneity!
From the very first time that I heard this, it makes SO much more sense than the usual performed version. As for criticism that it is too “bombastic/MGM”..... have you heard the rest of the opera? Puccini’s masterpiece, so sadly not completed by the composer, deserves such a stratospheric final scene. It seems so very logical that the principals are still singing to the final chords.
Finally! a final scene to balance the riddle scene. No doubt some of the additional material is uninspired, but what is crucial is the expansion of time that makes Turandot's transformation credible and the ending thus emotionally satisfying. To all opera producers: restore this ending!
Yes I concur-this is a more satisfying conclusion.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!
Wow!!...Heard this with NYCO in 1984..it brought down the house...an incredibly dramatic ending with principals floating above the chorus...love the alfano ending!!! thanks for sharing the newer recording...
I just heard the recording of the 1984 NYCO performance today on TH-cam - I believe one of the first times the Alfano ending was exhumed. No wonder it "brought down the house". A greater psychological complexity reflected in the Alfano version and two fantastic leads (Linda Kelm, Turandot / John West, Calaf).
th-cam.com/video/Qt0Bzl0BxyU/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/ONPK-2j5KFE/w-d-xo.html
Absolutely stunning! If only Birgit Nilsson and Jussi Bjoerling had recorded to include, as an appendix, the alternate version ending to the Leinsdorf RCA set, can you all just imagine?! I had heard hints of this alternate ending from the Turandot solo part within that original last act, which Lotte Lehmann recorded in German back in I believe 1927, and I was SO intrigued by it. (It was on The Art of Lotte Lehmann, a Seraphim Great Recordings of the Century LP 2-record set released in the mid 1970s) Thank you so much for posting this marvelous item.
This ending makes much more sense than the one that's usually heard. Quite satisfying.. Thanks for uploading.
A lot more sense!
I hadn't gotten to revisit this in awhile... I'm sorry, but the sudden reharmonization on the chorus' "ride e cantata nel sole..." in the last minute of the opera is like the biggest "Yessss!" moment for me. I find myself running it back to catch that, it's a big hallmark of this version.
Alfano es inmortal. Un genio maravilloso y legendario, injustamente tratado. Con el final de Turandot, está en la Historia.
Además de muchas operas fabulosas que dejó,compuso dos sinfonías muy interesantes!!
I first saw Turandot live at the Lyric Opera in Chicago, with Birget Neilson in the title role.....that was in either 1959 or 1960.....and was completely blown away by the effect of the chorale in the finale, with Neilson's voice soaring majestically above the rest. That sound stayed with me all the way home! The only thing comparable I've experienced was the Deis Irae from Verdi's Requiem while singing in the chorus with the Chicago Symphony.
Por favor, que nos dejen la versión de Alfaro de toda la vida. No hay nada más grandioso, sobrecogedor e impresionante.
Much more transparent and beautiful than the finale we are used to know. Bravo Alfano! Why does not anyone use this version?
Simple answer it's inferior.
@@trevorcorso473 Um...can't agree with you there. Usually, Liu dies, we barely have enough time to register the shock, and then Turandot is healed by love. Boom, just like that, barely any to-do. I much prefer the Alfano version for its better sense of pacing and attention to Turandot's gradual awakening. The soaring voices of the principals over the chorus also reinforce the overriding message of the opera.
@@trevorcorso473 No ways!
@@trevorcorso473The only reason you would possibly say that is because it’s different than what you’re used to. Musically and especially dramatically, it is far superior to the version that has become traditional.
If you want them to use it, write to them and tell them so. My regret is we can't hear Nilsson and Corelli do _this_ version.
FAR superior to the ending we've all become accustomed to hearing. Josephine Barstow does a hell of a job here. What a shame that the incomparable Birgit Nilsson never sang this ending. She would have sailed through it like a whirlwind. Of course, this ending compounds the vocal difficulty of an already all but impossible-to-sing role. Thanks so much for posting this. This is a real treasure!
Thanks for posting! This is much better then what we are use to. I saw Turandot at Caracalla in Rome in 1989 with the original ending and it is more difficult to perform. I saw 4 performances and by the 4th they had substituted the ending we are familiar with as they said the original needed more practice...
The traditional ending for Turandot always seemed a little bit too fast for me. I think this version has more of Puccini's essence. Thank You!
Thanks for posting. I've always liked this original ending; i agree with the comment below that the edited ending goes by too quickly, although it sounds more Puccini-like than does this version. The New York City Opera in the 1990's used this ending in its production of "Turandot".
A huge improvement that works far, far better for me. I feel as though I've waited for this for decades.
Bellissimo! Bravo Alfano! :-)
Thank you for this post! Alfano's finale has been too often and unfairly criticized as full of odds about harmony and form. The version we know appears incoherent, full of hasty harmonic modulations and with a shallow treatment of Puccini's musical materials: it's full of musical nonsenses!
But in this version we can understand (and appreciate) Alfano's dramatic and musical skill... And, unfortunately, Toscanini's guilty operation of cuts and bad adjustments.
We have to say sorry to Alfano!
...best version ever! Nothing more to say ...
Very rare....thank you for posting it....
Wonderful! Magnificent!
Great great great post, marcnycity!
Fantástic! I must tell you that I liked much more this complete version, certainly better.
WOW I love this original Alfano ending!!!!!! I have never heard it but it now seems more harmonically correct...and it is not as bombastic sounding as the Toscanini version! Gosh! Why isn't THIS version performed now instead!???
maravillosa,,, hermoza...
gracias por ponerla.
Thank you for upload.
As a millannial - I wish this was on spotify!
Ohmioddio... la versione estesa è stupenda! Anche se a volte perde un po' di consistenza, non so come spiegarlo... però è migliore di quella di Berio (bbbbbbrrrrrrrr) e dell'Alfano II... molto più coerente! Grazie *___*
I love it! Thank you. *___*
Berio non si tocca!!!
Wow, amazing, even if I prefere the original version, I love that one too. Thanks very very much for the upload
excellent comment by Nicolas Messina : he forgot to say Toscanini made also cuts at the Alfano's Turandot end.
I love this opera!
A thousand times preferable to the cranky Toscanini approved version.
As much as Toscanini is to be respected for his insistence on sticking to exactly what the composer has in the score, in this case he was a dick.
Evviva Alfano !
@marcnycity I'm a bit confused.
You say "Toscanini didn't like it and edited it. Of the Alfano I version, about three minutes were cut for performance by Toscanini and it is this shortened version that is usually performed"
But that doesn't seem to tell the whole story. What we hear is not just a shortened version which one can explain as editing. We also hear whole sections that are completely re-composed. For example, the "Il mio mister" solo is TOTALLY different. So it's not clear to me who composed this new music for "Alfano II." Was it Toscanini? I'm not clear. Is the version normally performed in fact composed as much by Toscanini, if not more, as by Alfano? Like I say, I'm confused.
Thank you for the post and the notes. However, I think Calaf was in love of Turandot since the very first moment he saw her.
This longer ending also gives Princess Turandot more time to soften and fall in love with Calaf by understanding love and getting over her own rancor towrd her own past negativity toward all men because of what she suffered.
Molto, molto meglio di quella porcheria di finale cui siamo abituati. Toscanini non capiva un accidente, ha preso un finale pieno di senso musicale e coerente col resto dell'opera e l'ha trasformato in un'americanata. Infatti piace agli americani. Dagli trombe tromboni tamburi e li fai contenti.
Salvovitale, no disparate.
Now that is cool!
Lovely! Thank you.
Amazing to me that anyone thinks there's some sort of night and day difference between the quality of the original ending and the shortened version. I would say it's not even close to a night and day difference, but I guess some people have to claim it is because they think that sounds more dramatic.
I think you take the terms night and day a bit to heavy. There is defenitly a grand difference in the original ending and this ending.
Well done, marc.
Esta version es de josephin bastrow y lando bartolini maravillosa....porqeu no se hace en vivo no lo entiendo
This version of the ending is impressive. Pappano has used it for his new Turandot recording, though he doesn't do it complete justice. What recording is this?
I do prefer this fuller Alfano ending--especially in comparison to the Berio. I don't find Turandot or Calaf very sympathetic characters, anyway.
Your reasoning about giving Calaf more time to fall in love with Turandot makes a lot of sense from a dramatic standpoint....let the musicologists argue over the compositional merits and so forth.
I was bowled over! Absolutely unsurpassable, except of course by Puccini himself, if cruel fate had decided otherwise!!
This is eye-opening; about to conduct the current Alfano II in performance, and this really helps me understand where it all comes from.
I cannot tell what the chorus word(s) is after Turandot's "amor" (his name is love) before the big final tune. In Alfano II, they simply echo "amor" but awkwardly on beat four of the "power motive" in the brass. In this version, they come in much more logically, and there are clearly some more syllables, here. Can anyone figure it out?
Wow, if you ever find out, would you post it here? It's driving me crazy!
The chorus sings "A-mo-re!"
Yeah I managed to get a hold of the original Alfano I vocal score, and I had the chorus sing “Amore” at that exact spot even though the orchestra had Alfano II parts because at least in that moment they are the same in the orchestra. I also changed the last word in the chorus to Amor from “A te”, another drawback in Alfano II from this first version.
Clearly the poor guy had had it so he just cobbled together something to pass Toscanini’s muster. Not that Toscanini ever conducted it, anyway, so it’s like he got rejected twice. Why bother doing the version Toscanini never deigned to conduct? We should just go back to this version and be done with it, just like we accept the Süssmayr completion of Mozart’s Requiem.
Barstow and Lando Bartolini, right?
Yes
Much better - and it gives both charachters time to think, feel, question. Especially Kalaf comes of much better, clearer and a bit more likeable.
perfecto
Just wanted to say that I accidentally pressed dont like button while trying to add this video into favourites :(( Can you imagine!!!! Sry :( Thank you so much for posting!
Thanks a lot for posting, the Aalto theatre in Essen, Germany is playing this version with just a couple of cuts until the end of March. Really good production I have to say. Can you tell us from whom the posted version is? Thanks
This ending, I think makes the soprano role even more difficult than it already is. The underlining of those stratospheric top notes at the end sound terribly difficult. I'm sure that Birgit Nilsson would and could have handled it, but for what logical reason?
Turandot herself really has a short role; I think most sopranos I know would be happy to sing a few more notes. Puccini and other Verismo composers place similar demands on their; the music here didn't strike me as being outlandish, and the soprano navigated it just fine.
Because it sounds magnificent!
Is the Olwen Hughes premiere version?
si siiii...
questa e´la versione che preferisco Alfano ottimo toscanini hollyvudiano luciano berio alquanto moscio
At 8:50... LA VENDETTA DI LIU !!! (Thriller time)
😭
I understand what you mean about Calaf's character. it does help. But the Alfano II musically has better structure. I believe that what was cut out had created melody and tempi changes that got in the way. But this is so much better than that new version that so many say they think is true to Puccini's note: but I don;t hear it. It is way too modern and Alfano, a student of Puccini, new his teachers voice. Besides, the new version is also UGLY! But the last few measures Alfano I is spectacular.
Alfano's music is fine, but the libretto in this section doesn't make any sense at all, It doesn't add to the story, it distracts from the original story. This is a fantasy based on ice and fire. Turandot is Ice and Calaf is fire. It is the ying and yang concept, they complete each other, you don't need further contrivances. The tile of opera might be Turandot, but Calaf is featured much more than Turandot.
brava barstow!!!!! and bravo alfano!!!! toscanini was WRONG!
Is the soprano Josephine Barstow?
Yes
Far too noisy. If this ending was used, the homogenity of the opera would be endangered.
kbh prinsesse i don’t think so... the typical Toscanini-cut-Version goes far to fast to the end. In my opinion, This is so much better, especially for the homogeneity!
LOL!!
Not melodious, too long, noisy. Nah.