I super enjoyed that. Great info about the generation not passing before the events take place. I have heard so many twists and turns, but you straightened out the path. Regarding the length of the video, everything you mentioned is relevant to a clearer understanding or at least leading us into a direction of further understanding. Thank you so much.
I saw this video and wasn’t sure about diving into it, but then my reading time this morning happened to be Mark 13 and so I started it. Definitely helpful and I’ll definitely go back and watch the first episode and I look forward to the others.
I have not listened yet but I beleive He was talking about both the destruction of the temple and the End of the age which is 2000 years after the assention in acts.
In keeping with Hooker and La Peau it’s possible that there’s double meaning in this passage. Jesus is predicting the destruction of Jerusalem and using it to parallel what will happen during the second coming.
AD70 was the end of the age. However, not the end of all things for the house of Israel. They had their gathering outside and away from Jerusalem until their last Yom Teruah. This occurred just a few years after the temple was destroyed. The Olivet Discourse makes no mention of gathering, lawless one or the last of Israel’s enemies.
I very much enjoy your teachings. I am wondering about something, though. Would it be possible for you make your charts available for us to print off? I am a big nerd; so, I take copious notes, but wish I could have your actual charts instead of my renditions of them.
If you're referring to the Word document I'm using, I'm happy to send a copy. Just message me via the contact form on the website. It's in the channel description.
@@DiscipleDojoYou could drop it on your google drive, make it public then put a link on your description. Good to go. 👍. I’d love to see your chart too. The visual element is excellent to imprint to memory. Nice work again
The Olivet Discourse refers to the second coming of Christ, fulfilled in 70 AD. Both Christ and His apostles consistently taught that His second coming would occur within the lifetime of their first-century audience. There is no shift in subject within the Olivet Discourse. The phrase "no one knows the day or hour" alludes to Rosh Hashanah (Feast of Trumpets) and Jewish wedding customs. In Jewish tradition, the groom would wait for the father’s signal before retrieving his bride, illustrating how Jesus could know it would occur within "this generation" (a specific timeframe) while not knowing the precise day or hour. The subject throughout Matthew 24:27, 29, 30, 37, 39, 44, and 25:13 remains consistent: the coming of the Son of Man. Attempts to argue a change in subject misunderstand the cultural and scriptural context.
How do we explain Matt 10:23? When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. It sounds like Jesus expects his disciples to be alive when he returns. He doesn't know the day or hour...just the generation.
Where and did Christ return in 70 ad? If you put that in a metaphoric term, then why do you take generation literally? I mean there are hundreds of scripture that you must put in the metaphorical terms for your theology to work. Do you think Jesus’s resurrection was metaphorical ? If not, how do you interpret : as you see him leave so shall you see his return. No one has made the claim of seeing Jesus in 70 ad. Hundreds of more examples also. Jesus never said that I will return incognito. I’m not trying to argue but want to understand why you believe this way.
@ - this linked video is the first of an 8-part series. It may not exhaustively answer your questions, but he is enjoyable to listen to and helps outline the hermeneutic that leads to the conclusion that Jesus return in AD 70. th-cam.com/video/SlicRM_0x7U/w-d-xo.htmlsi=zH6f1Snc0EMeVyFv
Thank you Michael! I embraced the preterist interpretation of the Olivet Discourse long ago thanks to the sermon "The Fulfillment of Matthew 24" by Douglas Wilson (available only as an audio online somewhere). I was converted to this viewpoint immediately but I still had questions (No single sermon can cover all the details of this complex prophecy). I was able to find some books that dealt with this subject from a preterist perspective ("Matthew 24" by Stanley W. Paher, "Matthew 24 Fulfilled" by John L. Bray, and "Last Days Madness" by Gary DeMar). I found them very useful but I thought that some things still needed refinement in both those books and that sermon. For example, I am not convinced at all that the coming of Jesus on the clouds is a coming TO HEAVEN as N.T. Wright and Paul Copan, among many others claim. I find that any reference to Daniel 7 is out of place here. For me, Dan 7 refers to Jesus' ascension at best. But in the Olivet Discourse we see Jesus coming down TO EARTH in judgment over Jerusalem after his ascension. It is not the same thing. --- N.T. Wright says that the Greek word for "coming" (on the clouds) can also mean "going" (on the clouds). This is startling (not to say confusing). So, I find N.T. Wright wrong in making a connection to Dan 7 here. I recommend his blue book presented in this video. But his commentaries are way too light for my taste. Also, I do not believe that the sun, moon, stars falling refer to the fall of earthly authorities as many claim. This is just OT figurative language to arise a sense of fear in the audience. That is it. By the way, we should not rely on how other cultures may have seen this cataclysmic language. Instead, we should see it in light of the OT references only. That is, the use of cultural background commentaries can lead us off track sometimes. We need to be careful. I am myself working on a detailed exposition of this famous prophecy. I take N.T Wright's view that this prophecy refers only to AD 70. I plan on publishing this in Spanish/Castilian and English at some point. I have a full time job so it will take me time. Good job Michael! I have been praying for you. Andrew (Ph.D. in chemistry).
Hi Andrew, interesting discussion and development. You seem to be correct that in the coming of the son of man on the clouds that he comes down. That downward direction can have two different meanings: a) comes down from higher position, status and power to low position, status and power, or b) comes down by showing his power by destroying or judging those he comes down upon. In the latter case, the power is hidden or not manifested, and it becomes manifest by destroying his enemies. This latter concept fits the coming of the Lord to destroy the Jerusalem Establishment and the temple and the Jewish kingdom or nation state in 70 C.E. His kingdom and he is invisible. He is seated at the Right Hand of Power in Heaven, yet only some can see that. But, when he rends the heavens and comes down, in and through that demonstration of power, he and his kingdom become visible. It is the sign that the Son of Man is enthroned in heaven in the Olivet Discourse. By means of that, the old world of Israel, the “corpse” is dispatched by the “vultures” and he also rises visibly as the rays of sunshine from the glimmer of dawn in the East to the brilliant radiance of the noonday Sun shining all the way to the West, as tha Age to Come dawns, as he rises as the Bright Morning Star. He becomes the new heavenly body. But the old powers in the heavens cease to shine, they grow dark, the powers of the heavens are shaken and fall, the moon turns to blood and the old sun grows dark, and the stars fall from heaven, and the old heavens and the old earth of Israel pass away. It would be wrong to read the Lord’s coming down from heaven in judgment but to miss the fall of the heavenly bodies and their kingdom being plunged into darkness in the Olivet Discourse. They are corresponding elements, of the passing away of the old heavens and earth and the arrival of the new heavens and the new earth. The Lord’s coming can be better understood by looking at with whom or what he comes. He does not come as a 1.7m tall Jewish man. He doesn’t come as an itinerant preacher or prophet in the wilderness or in the secret backrooms. Rather, he comes in Power and Glory, with his Mighty Angels, in flaming fire, with his holy ones. Who are these Mighty Angels? In Matthew they are the 12 legions of Angels that the Lord insisted were at his command. These Legions are the Roman Armies. These are the “Agent of Wrath” paid for by taxation, bearing the sword not in vain, to repay the evildoers and to dispense judgment upon those who resist its power, per Rom. 13:1-5. These Might Angels are the “Rod” that the Lord comes with to break the nations in fulfillment of Ps. 2. He does not come alone and unarmed, he comes rather by means of his agents and companions, as his “Rod” of judgment, to shatter the vessel of clay, Old Israel, the feet of iron and clay, at the Harvest, when he threshes and blows away the chaff with his winnowing fan, with the wind of judgment of Dan. 2. However, he also comes with his companions, his holy ones, in a different sense. He comes not alone but as a body, waking up from the dust and rising as stars in the heavens, leading many to righteousness, per Dan. 12. He comes through his 12 Apostles judging and leading the 12 tribes of Israel into the Age to Come, in the Regeneration. He comes as the resurrection body, the body of Christ, which the gates of Hades cannot withstand, the immortal spiritual body. Into this one body come “the dead ones” those who died in times past, who never experienced the life of the Age to Come. The living and the dead are reunited into one body in the Communion of the Saints, who “receive the kingdom” in Dan. 7. These saints are one with Christ, and when Christ crushes The Adversary under his feet, they too crush it under their feet, Rom. 16:20. The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. Rev 3:20. The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father. Rev. 2:26-27. From these texts you should see that the Lord comes down in judgment, via his Mighty Agents, but he also raises his new body of people to victory and life and knowledge. The Lord is enthroned in heaven and through his people, when he vindicates the blood of his servants by shedding the blood of those responsible.
@DiscipleDojo that's because the New Testament is written in Greek as if the Pax Persica and Cyrus The Great Dehellenizer never happened. Homo Sapiens have been successfully hellenized for hundreds of generations and thousands of years.
Good video JM. When I read this bit in Mark, and no, I am not a biblical scholar, but I hear Jesus recorded as saying he is coming back soon enough for some of the people listening there to witness it. That is not a stupid position, many scholars agree with that, you are aware of that. You put work by three scholars that you find "persuasive" in the vid and they don't agree as to the time frame. It is not clear at all. If you read 1st Thessalonians, one of the earliest written works of the New Testament, Paul indicates Jesus is to return in his lifetime. He changes his tune later, when it seems he won't survive till Jesus comes back. This stuff in Mark that is attributed to Jesus was written after Paul's early letters. The New Testament points to an early return of Jesus, not 2000 years later. For the end time stuff of the Bible to be true you have to jump through a lot of hoops.
@@joestfrancois the NT points to an early "coming of the Son of Man"...but specifically does not say when Jesus is returning, and warns against anyone who says they know when. I hope you're able to break free from the Schweitzer paradigm at some point.
@@DiscipleDojo wrote "the NT points to an early "coming of the Son of Man".." I got a whatever, Paul thought he would see Jesus come back. The word games that get played don't explain that away. I didn't know what the "Schweitzer Paradigm" was and when I looked it up I don't see why you are applying it to me. I follow no schools of thought, I make up my own mind. Was that meant as an insult?
@@Th3BigBoy wrote "I looked it up and I still don't get what a Schweitzer paradigm is." Yeah, no telling. He invoked Dunning-Kruger on me when I disagreed with him last year. A lot of times he just says he knows more than me, as if that ends the argument. I appreciate his scholarship, but people with a much better reputation disagree with him, not just some nobody on the youtube.
Albert Schweitzer is the German theologian who popularized the view that Jesus was an apocalyptic failed prophet because he and the NT writers predicted the end of the world within their generation. The interpretation Joe is advocating goes back to him.
Hey, partial preterists: it's not called the "some of it" discourse; it's the "all of it" discourse! I await your concession to this airtight argument.
70 A.D. has no biblical relevance whatsoever. 2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
@@DiscipleDojo ok... so maybe I misunderstood.. I thought you were saying 70 AD had biblical relevance. obviously it does not. as you know, Jesus fulfills the prophecy of Daniel 9 when he lays down his life... making an end of sins.. and bringing in everlasting righteousness. even in John 2 Jesus tells them that he will rebuild the temple in 3 days... and he done that. so... when Jesus comes in the clouds of heaven... this is the consummation spoken of in Daniel 9.. when the body of Christ is united with Christ... and we are changed into our glorified bodies.. where we put on incorruption and immortality. people that teach 70 AD is somehow biblical.. they teach this idea that Jesus has already come.. and the resurrection is past already. I thought this is what you were teaching. no no.. I went back... you did say the resurrection is past already. in Mark... verse 27 is the resurrection... verses 28-31 tells us when you shall "see these things come to pass".. know that it is nigh... even as the doors... again.. talking about the resurrection in verse 27 as well. and of course, the resurrection is at the end... so when we see all those things happening.. we know the resurrection is close. but you say: (26:51) because that section verses 28-31 this is talking about 70 AD Mark 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect
@@jhenningkelloggia 70 AD fulfilled Jesus's words in the Olivet Discourse. Daniel 12:1-7 tells the resurrection would be when the power of the holy people was completely shattered. That occurred in 70 AD when Jerusalem was destroyed along with the temple and the Levitical priesthood. If the resurrection is supposed the the raising of our biological bodies from the grave (Not taught in the scripture) why didn't Pula just say "look around, the bodies are still in the grave"? You are correct when you said "the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24 Mark 13 and Luke 21 is the resurrection. it parallels Daniel 12:2" However, Jesus clearly taught that this would be in the lifetime of His original first century audience and His apostles taught the same. Daniel's 70 Weeks prophecy was fulfilled when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed. Paul also told the Corinthians that some of them would not die before the resurrection at the last trumpet (consistent with what he told the Thessalonians in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).
@@ChristCenteredEschatology yea.. so this goes back to my original comment.. "who concerning the truth have erred." Jesus destroyed the temple... Jesus is the one that makes an end of sins... Jesus is what caused the sacrifices and oblations to cease... because he died once for all. Jesus is the one that brings in everlasting righteousness. you're an expert on the Bible and you don't know these things? you say : "If the resurrection is supposed the the raising of our biological bodies from the grave (Not taught in the scripture) " God says: 1 Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: you're in trouble the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, and I'll say this again... 70 AD has no biblical relevance whatsoever.. the things you teach is next level delusional.. and I do appreciate the conversation. think about this.... "For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised" 70 AD ? (Not taught in the scripture) next level delusional Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not. "when I spake, they did not hear:" perhaps DoughHead... instead of DoJo... is a better name for you?
Thank you for taking so much time to teach the Olivet discourse. I love learning how to do long form bible study.
Great video series. I love all of the details, so keep them coming.
Looking forward to the next one.
Great teaching! Thank you!
I super enjoyed that. Great info about the generation not passing before the events take place. I have heard so many twists and turns, but you straightened out the path. Regarding the length of the video, everything you mentioned is relevant to a clearer understanding or at least leading us into a direction of further understanding. Thank you so much.
This is really good 👍 Disciple Dojo
Nice work!
excellent. very interesting
I saw this video and wasn’t sure about diving into it, but then my reading time this morning happened to be Mark 13 and so I started it. Definitely helpful and I’ll definitely go back and watch the first episode and I look forward to the others.
This is great , cant wait for the next one
Received my patch, thank you so much.
@@janeyranlett6567 awesome!
"Exegetical backflips", lol, spot on.. That's what many people are doing with these verses.
Great teaching
9:07 Good catch.
🌹🔥🌟🔥🌹
I have not listened yet but I beleive He was talking about both the destruction of the temple and the End of the age which is 2000 years after the assention in acts.
Why 2000 years?
Both.
In keeping with Hooker and La Peau it’s possible that there’s double meaning in this passage. Jesus is predicting the destruction of Jerusalem and using it to parallel what will happen during the second coming.
AD70 was the end of the age. However, not the end of all things for the house of Israel. They had their gathering outside and away from Jerusalem until their last Yom Teruah. This occurred just a few years after the temple was destroyed.
The Olivet Discourse makes no mention of gathering, lawless one or the last of Israel’s enemies.
I very much enjoy your teachings. I am wondering about something, though. Would it be possible for you make your charts available for us to print off? I am a big nerd; so, I take copious notes, but wish I could have your actual charts instead of my renditions of them.
If you're referring to the Word document I'm using, I'm happy to send a copy. Just message me via the contact form on the website. It's in the channel description.
@@DiscipleDojoYou could drop it on your google drive, make it public then put a link on your description. Good to go. 👍. I’d love to see your chart too. The visual element is excellent to imprint to memory.
Nice work again
The Olivet Discourse refers to the second coming of Christ, fulfilled in 70 AD. Both Christ and His apostles consistently taught that His second coming would occur within the lifetime of their first-century audience. There is no shift in subject within the Olivet Discourse.
The phrase "no one knows the day or hour" alludes to Rosh Hashanah (Feast of Trumpets) and Jewish wedding customs. In Jewish tradition, the groom would wait for the father’s signal before retrieving his bride, illustrating how Jesus could know it would occur within "this generation" (a specific timeframe) while not knowing the precise day or hour.
The subject throughout Matthew 24:27, 29, 30, 37, 39, 44, and 25:13 remains consistent: the coming of the Son of Man. Attempts to argue a change in subject misunderstand the cultural and scriptural context.
Love your comments, and your TH-cam channel! So insightful.
@@SpencerRowley-w6o If you are referring to my channel "Christ-Centered Eschatology" then thanks. If not, then thanks on behalf of DiscipleDojo.
Have you linked this to Daniel prophecy
He was talking about 70 AD and the future temple desolation, ....ye are the temple of the Holy Spirit...
Hey bro. Would you say that the book of revelation also refers to Ad 70 in some sense?
@@unlimitedfreedom6500 only as a paradigm, if at all. I think Rev was written in the 90s AD.
@DiscipleDojo ty!
Please come out of the false church system and follow Christ in all truth 🙏🏼
How do we explain Matt 10:23? When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
It sounds like Jesus expects his disciples to be alive when he returns. He doesn't know the day or hour...just the generation.
Correct
Stick around
Where and did Christ return in 70 ad? If you put that in a metaphoric term, then why do you take generation literally? I mean there are hundreds of scripture that you must put in the metaphorical terms for your theology to work. Do you think Jesus’s resurrection was metaphorical ? If not, how do you interpret : as you see him leave so shall you see his return. No one has made the claim of seeing Jesus in 70 ad. Hundreds of more examples also. Jesus never said that I will return incognito. I’m not trying to argue but want to understand why you believe this way.
@ - this linked video is the first of an 8-part series.
It may not exhaustively answer your questions, but he is enjoyable to listen to and helps outline the hermeneutic that leads to the conclusion that Jesus return in AD 70.
th-cam.com/video/SlicRM_0x7U/w-d-xo.htmlsi=zH6f1Snc0EMeVyFv
Thank you Michael!
I embraced the preterist interpretation of the Olivet Discourse long ago thanks to the sermon "The Fulfillment of Matthew 24" by Douglas Wilson (available only as an audio online somewhere). I was converted to this viewpoint immediately but I still had questions (No single sermon can cover all the details of this complex prophecy).
I was able to find some books that dealt with this subject from a preterist perspective ("Matthew 24" by Stanley W. Paher, "Matthew 24 Fulfilled" by John L. Bray, and "Last Days Madness" by Gary DeMar). I found them very useful but I thought that some things still needed refinement in both those books and that sermon.
For example,
I am not convinced at all that the coming of Jesus on the clouds is a coming TO HEAVEN as N.T. Wright and Paul Copan, among many others claim. I find that any reference to Daniel 7 is out of place here. For me, Dan 7 refers to Jesus' ascension at best. But in the Olivet Discourse we see Jesus coming down TO EARTH in judgment over Jerusalem after his ascension. It is not the same thing.
--- N.T. Wright says that the Greek word for "coming" (on the clouds) can also mean "going" (on the clouds). This is startling (not to say confusing). So, I find N.T. Wright wrong in making a connection to Dan 7 here. I recommend his blue book presented in this video. But his commentaries are way too light for my taste.
Also, I do not believe that the sun, moon, stars falling refer to the fall of earthly authorities as many claim. This is just OT figurative language to arise a sense of fear in the audience. That is it. By the way, we should not rely on how other cultures may have seen this cataclysmic language. Instead, we should see it in light of the OT references only. That is, the use of cultural background commentaries can lead us off track sometimes. We need to be careful.
I am myself working on a detailed exposition of this famous prophecy. I take N.T Wright's view that this prophecy refers only to AD 70. I plan on publishing this in Spanish/Castilian and English at some point. I have a full time job so it will take me time.
Good job Michael! I have been praying for you.
Andrew (Ph.D. in chemistry).
Hi Andrew, interesting discussion and development. You seem to be correct that in the coming of the son of man on the clouds that he comes down. That downward direction can have two different meanings: a) comes down from higher position, status and power to low position, status and power, or b) comes down by showing his power by destroying or judging those he comes down upon. In the latter case, the power is hidden or not manifested, and it becomes manifest by destroying his enemies. This latter concept fits the coming of the Lord to destroy the Jerusalem Establishment and the temple and the Jewish kingdom or nation state in 70 C.E. His kingdom and he is invisible. He is seated at the Right Hand of Power in Heaven, yet only some can see that. But, when he rends the heavens and comes down, in and through that demonstration of power, he and his kingdom become visible. It is the sign that the Son of Man is enthroned in heaven in the Olivet Discourse. By means of that, the old world of Israel, the “corpse” is dispatched by the “vultures” and he also rises visibly as the rays of sunshine from the glimmer of dawn in the East to the brilliant radiance of the noonday Sun shining all the way to the West, as tha Age to Come dawns, as he rises as the Bright Morning Star. He becomes the new heavenly body. But the old powers in the heavens cease to shine, they grow dark, the powers of the heavens are shaken and fall, the moon turns to blood and the old sun grows dark, and the stars fall from heaven, and the old heavens and the old earth of Israel pass away.
It would be wrong to read the Lord’s coming down from heaven in judgment but to miss the fall of the heavenly bodies and their kingdom being plunged into darkness in the Olivet Discourse. They are corresponding elements, of the passing away of the old heavens and earth and the arrival of the new heavens and the new earth.
The Lord’s coming can be better understood by looking at with whom or what he comes. He does not come as a 1.7m tall Jewish man. He doesn’t come as an itinerant preacher or prophet in the wilderness or in the secret backrooms. Rather, he comes in Power and Glory, with his Mighty Angels, in flaming fire, with his holy ones. Who are these Mighty Angels? In Matthew they are the 12 legions of Angels that the Lord insisted were at his command. These Legions are the Roman Armies. These are the “Agent of Wrath” paid for by taxation, bearing the sword not in vain, to repay the evildoers and to dispense judgment upon those who resist its power, per Rom. 13:1-5. These Might Angels are the “Rod” that the Lord comes with to break the nations in fulfillment of Ps. 2. He does not come alone and unarmed, he comes rather by means of his agents and companions, as his “Rod” of judgment, to shatter the vessel of clay, Old Israel, the feet of iron and clay, at the Harvest, when he threshes and blows away the chaff with his winnowing fan, with the wind of judgment of Dan. 2.
However, he also comes with his companions, his holy ones, in a different sense. He comes not alone but as a body, waking up from the dust and rising as stars in the heavens, leading many to righteousness, per Dan. 12. He comes through his 12 Apostles judging and leading the 12 tribes of Israel into the Age to Come, in the Regeneration. He comes as the resurrection body, the body of Christ, which the gates of Hades cannot withstand, the immortal spiritual body. Into this one body come “the dead ones” those who died in times past, who never experienced the life of the Age to Come. The living and the dead are reunited into one body in the Communion of the Saints, who “receive the kingdom” in Dan. 7. These saints are one with Christ, and when Christ crushes The Adversary under his feet, they too crush it under their feet, Rom. 16:20. The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. Rev 3:20. The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations,
and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father. Rev. 2:26-27.
From these texts you should see that the Lord comes down in judgment, via his Mighty Agents, but he also raises his new body of people to victory and life and knowledge. The Lord is enthroned in heaven and through his people, when he vindicates the blood of his servants by shedding the blood of those responsible.
@@hillaryfamily great stuff
To say Jesus is prophesying in ABAB format is absolutely ridiculous
This guy is completely oblivious about Cyrus Christ.
#EarthisBabylon
@@EricDavidHall that comment makes no sense
@DiscipleDojo that's because the New Testament is written in Greek as if the Pax Persica and Cyrus The Great Dehellenizer never happened.
Homo Sapiens have been successfully hellenized for hundreds of generations and thousands of years.
Good video JM. When I read this bit in Mark, and no, I am not a biblical scholar, but I hear Jesus recorded as saying he is coming back soon enough for some of the people listening there to witness it. That is not a stupid position, many scholars agree with that, you are aware of that. You put work by three scholars that you find "persuasive" in the vid and they don't agree as to the time frame. It is not clear at all.
If you read 1st Thessalonians, one of the earliest written works of the New Testament, Paul indicates Jesus is to return in his lifetime. He changes his tune later, when it seems he won't survive till Jesus comes back. This stuff in Mark that is attributed to Jesus was written after Paul's early letters. The New Testament points to an early return of Jesus, not 2000 years later.
For the end time stuff of the Bible to be true you have to jump through a lot of hoops.
@@joestfrancois the NT points to an early "coming of the Son of Man"...but specifically does not say when Jesus is returning, and warns against anyone who says they know when. I hope you're able to break free from the Schweitzer paradigm at some point.
@@DiscipleDojo wrote "the NT points to an early "coming of the Son of Man".."
I got a whatever, Paul thought he would see Jesus come back. The word games that get played don't explain that away.
I didn't know what the "Schweitzer Paradigm" was and when I looked it up I don't see why you are applying it to me. I follow no schools of thought, I make up my own mind. Was that meant as an insult?
I looked it up and I still don't get what a Schweitzer paradigm is.
@@Th3BigBoy wrote "I looked it up and I still don't get what a Schweitzer paradigm is."
Yeah, no telling. He invoked Dunning-Kruger on me when I disagreed with him last year. A lot of times he just says he knows more than me, as if that ends the argument. I appreciate his scholarship, but people with a much better reputation disagree with him, not just some nobody on the youtube.
Albert Schweitzer is the German theologian who popularized the view that Jesus was an apocalyptic failed prophet because he and the NT writers predicted the end of the world within their generation. The interpretation Joe is advocating goes back to him.
Hey, partial preterists: it's not called the "some of it" discourse; it's the "all of it" discourse!
I await your concession to this airtight argument.
70 A.D. has no biblical relevance whatsoever.
2 Timothy 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
@@jhenningkelloggia not sure what the Resurrection has to do with anything in this discussion.
@@DiscipleDojo ok... so maybe I misunderstood.. I thought you were saying 70 AD had biblical relevance.
obviously it does not.
as you know, Jesus fulfills the prophecy of Daniel 9 when he lays down his life... making an end of sins.. and bringing in everlasting righteousness.
even in John 2 Jesus tells them that he will rebuild the temple in 3 days... and he done that.
so... when Jesus comes in the clouds of heaven... this is the consummation spoken of in Daniel 9.. when the body of Christ is united with Christ... and we are changed into our glorified bodies.. where we put on incorruption and immortality.
people that teach 70 AD is somehow biblical.. they teach this idea that Jesus has already come.. and the resurrection is past already.
I thought this is what you were teaching.
no no.. I went back... you did say the resurrection is past already.
in Mark... verse 27 is the resurrection... verses 28-31 tells us when you shall "see these things come to pass".. know that it is nigh... even as the doors... again.. talking about the resurrection in verse 27 as well.
and of course, the resurrection is at the end... so when we see all those things happening.. we know the resurrection is close.
but you say:
(26:51)
because that section verses 28-31 this is talking about 70 AD
Mark 13:27
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect
@@jhenningkelloggia 70 AD fulfilled Jesus's words in the Olivet Discourse. Daniel 12:1-7 tells the resurrection would be when the power of the holy people was completely shattered. That occurred in 70 AD when Jerusalem was destroyed along with the temple and the Levitical priesthood.
If the resurrection is supposed the the raising of our biological bodies from the grave (Not taught in the scripture) why didn't Pula just say "look around, the bodies are still in the grave"?
You are correct when you said "the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24 Mark 13 and Luke 21 is the resurrection.
it parallels Daniel 12:2"
However, Jesus clearly taught that this would be in the lifetime of His original first century audience and His apostles taught the same.
Daniel's 70 Weeks prophecy was fulfilled when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed.
Paul also told the Corinthians that some of them would not die before the resurrection at the last trumpet (consistent with what he told the Thessalonians in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).
@@ChristCenteredEschatology yea.. so this goes back to my original comment.. "who concerning the truth have erred."
Jesus destroyed the temple... Jesus is the one that makes an end of sins... Jesus is what caused the sacrifices and oblations to cease... because he died once for all.
Jesus is the one that brings in everlasting righteousness.
you're an expert on the Bible and you don't know these things?
you say :
"If the resurrection is supposed the the raising of our biological bodies from the grave (Not taught in the scripture) "
God says:
1 Corinthians 15:16
For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
you're in trouble
the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
and I'll say this again... 70 AD has no biblical relevance whatsoever.. the things you teach is next level delusional.. and I do appreciate the conversation.
think about this....
"For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised"
70 AD ?
(Not taught in the scripture)
next level delusional
Isaiah 66:4
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
"when I spake, they did not hear:"
perhaps DoughHead... instead of DoJo... is a better name for you?
End of this earth age.