Just a quick message to someone who may need to hear it. Same sex attraction doesn’t need to be something to “struggle with”. It is beautiful, it is natural, it has nothing to do with trauma, and it can be expressed in a sustainable, healthy, godly, supportive, community-minded way with a same sex sexual and life partner. Enjoy, be true to yourself, be good to others, and don’t look over your shoulder. Stand tall and don’t apologize to anyone for being yourself.
@@italoblu nah it's a struggle, I'm bisexual but there's always some BS of I'm attracted to a guy, because I almost ALWAYS end up attracted to straight guys, it's the worst feeling in the world and it sucks. I just have to navigate the waters
@@MartinSmith156 But is that a struggle finding the right person for you rather than with your orientation? It seems that no matter where you fall on the sexual orientation continuum, you may find yourself attracted to people who don't find you attractive (in your instance, a straight guy). That's not a struggle with orientation, that's just part of dating/relationships.
Gay & straight people sometimes have a sexually abused backgtound - but many gay people come from a normal happy childhood - so please don’t turn same sex attraction into a pathology because of a lack of something
I appreciate that many people may have been abused in their childhoods, and I really think that the commentator's personal experience colors his opinions expressed on this channel--as they should. However, it is disingenuous to assume, declare or project this trauma onto others.
I personally know many, many gay people, and I don't know a single one who didn't come from a dysfunctional family (emotional neglect) or wasn't sexuality abused.
@@republiccooper I have gay friends that had normal upbringings - but I have many straight friends that were neglected, abused and never felt love but they are still straight - these issues don’t dictate ones sexuality
Sexual attraction and preference form from some cause or causes. They don't emerge spontaneously from nothing. They are not encoded for genetically. The only other factors are epigenetic or environmental. The findings of neuroscience show that experiences with caregivers are the major drivers of affective neurocircuits, which influence developing sexuality. The reality is, our sexuality and the categories of what arouses us emerge from our earliest relationships with our parents and for a large part of the population (over 50%), physical, emotional and sexual abuse or neglect (trauma) leads to the development of insecure attachment, which shapes our emotional and interpersonal lives as well as our self and sexual identities.
people who oppose "labels" tend to only oppose the label gay, bisexual, pansexual, fluid, queer. Ask someone if they're truly 100% straight publicly, and they will have no problem with identifying with that label.
I respectfully disagree. I consider myself a gay man, and I cringe saying that because it’s a label . I find labels limiting and dangerous. They don’t allow for growth and change . What’s important to you today may have no bearing in a years time . Sex and sexuality is an activity not and identity .
@@mattschiavone3383 I disagree with you. I'm gay regardless of what activity I do. Just because I stop kissing my boyfriend doesn't mean I'm no longer gay. Also ask yourself, do you use the label "man", "your racial group" "Christian" etc. if so, you're labeling yourself, but just have a problem with the gay label.
I think you experience the label before you choose it. At least for me. I learned I was gay at a young age even though I didn’t know the term gay. As I got older, gay was a bad word. Something to be ashamed of. But I knew that’s what I was and what best described me and that I’d eventually have to own that and in owning it, taking it on - it lost its negative connotation. So now at 42, I say that I’m a gay man and I say it unashamed. Hope anyone struggling can get to that place. 🙏🏻 ❤
Your first sentence is spot on. It brings to mind a statement by Barack Obama (when he first ran for President): he was asked why he identified as Black. Why did he not choose to say he was White vice Black? He said something like "the world chose for me."
@@WinfreyWright interesting and def true. In a lot of ways, yes the world chooses things to project on you. I just knew I was really fond of men. I enjoyed their company.. as I got older I was very interested in men. lol So, I started to realize…oh this is gay.
Thank you for your comment! I agree 100%. My experience with my sexuality is very similar. I knew from a very young age I knew how I felt, and who I was and was not attracted to. It wasn't until I was in my teens that I learned what the label of "gay" meant and what kinds of stigmas it brought along with it. Being from a small conservative community, I learned it was something I should be ashamed of. It took getting away from that community and finding a community of acceptance that I was able to own my sexuality without shame. So now, like you, I'm in my 40's and am unashamed to say I am a gay man. Being gay feels natural and normal.
@@RossH-ky3jr 😀♥️🌈 Happy for you. It’s sad that so many men have feel shame about it that sometimes they can’t admit who they are. As someone said here earlier, the world tells you how to feel about things. But then you have to decide if you’re going to accept that. Glad you didn’t.
is it really important to deduce why men become appealing to other men? it sort of leaves us thinking there is something to fix. i've found a lot of freedom in just stopping the inner inquisition and allowing feelings to unfold without judgment....
I was born and raised in a small conservative catholic Mexican community, very “typical “macho” society. My parents, brothers and sister were always nice caring and loving to each other and yet I am gay. When I was very young and I started to show signs I was different than my brothers, my parents always tried to steer me to the “right path” but never in a mean or abusive way. I ended up migrating to the USA 25 years ago and now in my 50’s and totally out, my whole family loves and accepts me, so when you are gay you are born this way you don’t become gay because of abuse or environmental factors.
@@secretsauce5678 He's saying that "labels" can be true. Cuz the guy in the video was saying he "didn't like labels like 'gay' or 'straight' etc." But some people ARE 100% gay or straight ,etc...
Im bisexual but primarily attracted to women, it took me a long time to accept my gay side. Because I'm traditionally masculine and come from a "men are men" upbringing. But I've had lots of great experiences with guys and almost all of them were either straight but experimenting or bisexual themselves. These are all alpha masculine men as well, in my old neighborhood, it was crazy how many straight guys were doing gay shit undercover and I'm in a situation now where I just ended a long relationship with a woman and I was faithful to her the whole time and have accepted that I now have feelings for my straight best friend, I told him expecting the worst, and he told me I can get give hm oral sex if I wanted. So again a lot of "straight" men also send up bi guys mixed signals. This guy is also masculine, he was the captain of his high school football team and is now a construction worker. Do women know how common male/male hookups are?
I totally can relate. I'm very masculine myself and most of the guys I've done stuff with are straight guys I've come to understand that most straight men seek companionship and a deeper friendship that is not transactional. Once they bond with you, they will be loyal and stick to you. The only twist is that the first time they have gay s£x , they sort of go into a sort of shock but end up coming back for more.
@@Jim-og8uy yup. But I was the opposite I lost my virginity very young to a girl and didn't even think about guys until my early 20s. There's a certain type of guy that I'm attracted to, a very masculine bro type with a sense of humor
One of the better discussions on this topic I’ve seen- first half in particular. When you got to applying Aristotelian ‘A’ is ‘A’ causal connections, you lost me. We make the mistake of thinking causality is linear when it’s multifaceted in reality. It also seemed that some of the ‘logic’ then applied was used to make certain not to ‘identify’ as anything other than human-Non-categorized sexuality- but it felt to me like there was a little internalized homophobia- if I’m wrong, it’s all OK and I appreciate so much of what was said.
It's all about balance. Be with who you like and when you do, make sure the connection is meaningful. When it's meaningful you find yourself learning more about the things that make life more vivid..
Interesting discussion. A couple of comments from me though. Firstly, I struggle to be able to describe or remember anything much prior to being 10, and yet I imagine that much of the important interactions that may have fed into my sexuality probably occurred before that. Certainly, if I peer back into my early school days, I can remember exhibiting many of the typical “gay child” behaviour, interests etc, long before I understood what they might be pointing towards. I can’t experience someone else’s internal dialogue, so I can only see my own feelings as being “normal”, hence the confusion and pain felt by those who later realise that they are “different” from others. Secondly, my romantic and sexual orientation is towards men, and yet my older brother is married with kids. He had a similar upbringing, with the same parents, although of course he didn’t have an identical childhood. It’s very easy to point toward the emotional unavailability of my father, or whatever, but we had the same dad. Thirdly, while I can, maybe, look back and pick out a handful of experiences that may have influenced my developing erotic awareness, it occurs to me that I may remember them BECAUSE of their perceived significance. The same scenarios if experienced by my brother may not have been significant or memorable. This discussion made me feel somewhat uncomfortable because it seemed to pathologise non heterosexual sexuality and attempt to find a cause. This is all very well, I feel it to be unhelpful, but I’m willing to accept that there maybe some element of truth in it. However, where does that get us? Am I then to attempt to rectify my sexual attractions? How do I feel about the idea that my deeply felt sexuality, which has caused so much angst in my life, may have its origins in stuff that happened in my childhood. It feels like a watered down version of the narrative that you still hear regularly, that gay men have all been abused in some way as children. I would ask you, does it feel any better to know that your erotic response to hyper masculine guys in times of stress is the possible result of your parenting, and your wish to be one of those confidential muscular types at school? What do you do with that information?
@@sandrew255 you know I think it’s society that defines sexual norms - being gay we’ve got to stop trying to find an answer as if there is something wrong - my bother and I had the same upbringing but he’s straight and I’m gay - and anyway childhood trauma, abuse or neglect does not dictate sexual preference but it can make us unstable in our adult relationship, romantic or otherwise in so many ways - I am attracted to men and I embrace it
Growing up, neighbor boys would be curious about each others bodies and how things work, but in high school, another male class mate and I became "f*** buddies" for many years after HS as well. But I always identified gay since I've had that attraction at a young age, but my buddy identified as bi, eventually married and had kids. We obviously stopped there and went separate ways.
this is a refreshing discussion for me. i've settled for being overtly ambivalent about my sexuality for a long time. it's not been until recently that i accepted that "i'm gay". i've always chafed at the categories though. i don't like being pigeonholed into some role. but it's felt necessary to bring clarity to my relations with men and women.
I am so impressed by you guys. Thanks for putting so this stuff out there. As a gay man when i accepted my sexuality, i started seeking a gay life style because i wanted to identify with other gay men to find out who i was. I was comfortable and accepted by other gay men and i used it as a foundation on which to build my life.
I think they are full of it . The guy w no facial hair masterbates to gay porn as an adult man . Give me a break dude. You’re not straight . Cut the crap
Most men are still scared of the labels gay or bi...those men are quick to say "I'm straight." I also understand that the labels are off-putting to some people. The labels don't bother me; I refer to myself as a 64 YO gay man. But I have a mixed sexual history in that I had a wife for many years when I was young. Then I had a decade long relationship with a man. Afterwards I fell for a woman, oddly. I have never been promiscuous, into 1-night stands, etc. I have been sexually intimate with fewer than 10 men, a large portion of whom considered themselves to be straight. So I agree that sexual behavior does not necessarily mean the same thing as sexual orientation. For a couple years I had a straight male 'acquaintance with benefits.' At one point he started to become more attached to me than I was comfortable with. When he told me that he had fallen in love with me, I was shocked and internally said "whoa."
Winfrey we are the same age and had similar life experiences...would like to find the right platform to discuss more, the consequences and mind sets and traps we set for ourselves. Do you participate in other platform designed for discussion?
The only thing I got out of this ,is that your both interested in men. I'm totally gay and fine with that. I Love myself. Although I'm totally confused with the type of man, I love. The abusive type im used to or a loving person I'm bored with.be happy with who you are.
I have gay friends who somehow met a woman and fell in love, and I've seen straight men who connect with another men on a very deeper level and end up falling in love with them
@johnchukwu2697 Your statement is a bit far-fetched. What kind of sample size are you talking about where you personally know or have seen "straight" men who fell in love with another man?
@@johnchukwu2697 I didn't mean to sound abrasive with my comment. And yes, life can surprise all those who live it. But cases that you describe are far few and between. I wish to combat prevailing views nowadays that bisexuality is more common than we think. Bisexuality is actually quite rare.
@paulthomas281 it's alright. We are communicating, and I don't think you were being confrontational. I think bisexuality is quite common. Most people dabble into stuff to see what it feels like. In my opinion, bisexuality is a situation whereby someone can feel deeply and show vulnerability to either male or female. For me, sex is pretty shallow. A gay man can marry, sleep with a woman, and have kids just to hide his identity. It doesn't mean he's straight or bisexual. Also, a straight man can get very horny and wouldn't mind a dude provided he's able to burst a big nut. His feelings are not involved. Just the same way a man can f*&k a prostitute and walk away like nothing happened
@@paulthomas281 far-fetched doesn't mean impossible but yes. I would say statistically speaking it's more likely that a gay identifying man falls in love with a woman than a straight man with another man. There's no real incentive in much of our society to be exclusively homosexual, and biologically no real incentive either since our parts don't work that way. BUT there is some psychological and or societal basis for same sex behavior. Neither contradict but they exist on two different planes of expression. There is incentive for reproduction but for some of that persuasion, there is satisfaction, joy, intimacy, and mental fortitude for being with the same sex sexually, or platonically, or familial.
Loved this video to the degree that I cannot express my feelings with words. Since 3 years ago I also started thinking the same about labels and how isolating they are for humankind and sadly at that time I came to know the term " Romantic Orientation " and I was utterly disappointed. Watching this video gave me hope, I saw other people who think exactly like me and hopefully with your help and guidance there will be a growth on this mindset. Thanks to both of you guys! Keep it up!
It seems to me though the people who are struggling can't accept they are same sex attracted. It's not hard to work out you're bisexual if you are attracted to both sexes or if you are monosexual and only attracted to opposite or same sex. It seems the confusion comes when the person feels shame about their same-sex attractions that they try to deny or repress that part of them and ends up creating a lot of confusion, cognitive dissonance and then they start resenting labels because to them that seems the cause of their confusion, when in reality it's just they cannot accept those feelings inside themselves or don;t want to be labeled gay or bisexual. The issue is not the labels, it's your feelings about the label. The truth is if you are attracted to both sexes, even if you have more of a preference for one sex, then you're bisexual and it really is that simple. Truly heterosexual or homosexual people really are only attracted to one sex and don't feel confused about it and they don't mind labels, in fact many gay people will say that labelling their sexuality was relieving and they were better able to find gay communities and spaces to meet other gay people because most of the friends and people they grew up with were straight. This is universal too because wherever you go in the world the majority of the population are straight, and that's because of biology.
@@aliross2720 Hello to you. I am not confused nor do I have any problems with myself. I am a 41 years old man who knew he was different since he was 14. I used to identify with the labels but as I said in my 1st comment its been 3 or 4 years that I cannot identify with any label anymore, as I mentioned I found them isolating. I am also openly out and have no fears or insecurities about myself. Instead of using labels ( if anyone asks about my choices ) I would explain to them about my sexual interest, and if they are really close to me and really curious and eager to know about my choices I can give them the reasons about the choices that I have made or will make.
@@Harima-gtf You're no different than anyone else that cuts to the chase and labels their orientation and doesn't complicate it for the sake of complicating it.
What an interesting discussion. I’m going to have to watch it again to get my head around the neuropathy part! 🙃 As I listen to you, I try to compare my back story to how it compares to what you are saying -vs- what your experiences are/were. I now have a headache… From what I have witnessed, not with just myself, but others I’ve interacted with along the way, a lot of it seems to come back to religious beliefs or what were “supposed” to believe. There is a strong Puritanical believe system in everyone I have ever met. Any deviation from that results in fire and brimstone for eternity. Therefore, you have to have the correct label or you are not worthy. Being a gay (label) man I’ve had to fight for gay rights all of my life, which pushed even deeper that label into my psyche. I have been trying to make the world a better place for the generations of gays to follow. I don’t like the descriptors placed on people like, queer, squirrelly, candy ass and the list goes on and on. Now the new generations I have fought for, love to be called queer… what the hell did I fight for? The snake eating it’s “tale.” The conversation between the two of you have opened up a lot of things to be unpacked beyond this comment to you. (Hell, was I even supposed to be a guy!?) I’m 61 and have lots to learn about should’a, could’a, would’a in the past that is stopping my growth in the future. Sometimes I feel like my work here on earth is done and wonder what will be in the next. 😊
@alun5903 No it's not. Bisexuality is NOT the natural state of humankind. Far too many men have this false view that if a man finds another man attractive, it means they could develop feelings for that person. Romantic and sexual coupling for the vast majority of humans is binary. One is either heterosexual or homosexual in their mating choices. It's a small minority who are bisexual. Fleeting attraction here and there is often misunderstood and misconstrued.
Guys, I can smell so many hangups there, plus you are talking about abuse and healing, and linking this to sex, and desire, and homosexual behaviour. Plus you are linking porn to abuse and shame and wrong behaviours. This does not sound right.
"If I can get it right, if I can align myself with right behavior, I'll be a right person. And that's just horseshit." I love you guys. I wish you could be broadcast on a Jumbotron. Keep talking and keep up the incredible work!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Just wanted to tell you two blokes that I admire your bravery & honesty. Just feeling things out for now but will get around to engaging more with the channel. I've 'known' probably close to a thousand men & a few women over the years but will get to that later. This is the stuff that doesn't get talked about when we think of 'gay' contact between men. That word sends a lot of blokes running for the hills. Great job gents. 👍
Let’s use some examples of good behavior in Scott’s discussion on labels. He used lying and stealing as behaviors that don’t necessarily define someone as a liar or a thief. If I donate to a charity one time in my life, does that label me as a charitable man? If I have behaved kindly toward strangers only once or twice, does that mean that I can be labeled as a kind person? Helpful? Kind? Charitable? Responsible?? Intelligent? If I have demonstrated those traits, does it mean that I AM those traits? If the answer is yes then we must label toxic narcissists as wonderful people.
I wonder if there was not enough time for this episode to address another layer to Chris’s erotic thoughts about men that remind him of his football team in high school. The football team members were abusive and unkind. They were also intensely masculine and confident. It seems to me that wanting a confident, masculine man to approve of what Chris is doing and accept him exactly how he is through sexual behavior would be a very powerful erotic template. That is, having one of those confident, masculine men enjoying everything that Chris is providing to them in a fantasy, these men enjoying him and approving of him deeply, and telling him that it’s good, telling him that what he’s doing is fantastic…these things contribute an intensity-beyond-measure to the erotic template toward those men.
Don't limit yourself as a human by defining yourself by your sexual preference. You are much more than that. Also, you don't have to act upon whoever you are sexualy attracted to. In fact, its probably best if you don't. At least until love enters the equation.
This was a good find. In this conversation I heard a lot about image. Wanting to look like and be like others. I found that to be where things go wrong. Get educated about life and how things work. This tells me that people have not evolved like we should have. People still want the pretty package regardless if it has no value and empty. The plan package has more value. Just look at a small child. One the wrappings are off and the gift is out of the box. What is the one thing they are amused with. The plan box. The gift is sitting on the side. Look beyond the pretty package.
Do you know straight men that masterbate to gay porn ? I don’t . Implicit in this nonsense is that if your same sex attracted your somehow lost or lacking connection. It’s a condescending message probably designed to get self loathing people into there ‘camps’ of connection. I think it’s a business . They talk in circles but always come back to a muddle of gay is ok - but maybe your just lost . Maybe you need connection. They like to strongly suggest gay men are a result of no fathers - total bullshit not based in science. If it were true god knows there would be a lot more gay men. The central idea that needing connection with male is valid but - give me break you don’t want to see them nude - unless your same sex attracted . Lots of people feel lost . Let’s not confuse same sex attraction to lack of connection.
People don’t necessarily sexually identify or pick a label for themselves. They do it for others, so that other people can process and accept them. They are just living their lives.
it actually sounds to me like these guys are leaving the constructs of labels and discovering aspects of themselves with other men that straight culture has not allowed. to categorize them as gay is sort of simplistic and i think misses what they are sharing.
Can’t gay or bi sexual men just acknowledge it instead of acting like it’s complicated and try and make it seem like such a grey area. It’s not, you either like Men or you don’t. To say otherwise to me is just cowardliness. Because you can’t just admit the truth and tell it like it is? There’s nothing wrong with admitting your sexual orientation. If someone has made you feel bad because of the way it sounds, that’s on you and your issues with it. I don’t have a problem with admitting I’m gay. I think in a backwards way to say the label/word “ Gay” is offensive to say, is what’s offensive! There’s nothing offensive about that word. It simply describes a sexual orientation. You’re making this a bad thing by not acknowledging it! It’s not a bad label. Should we just throw a dictionary out and not label anything, anything! Not trying to be rude but come on, get real.
The underlying assumption of your discussion is that bi or gay desire/meaning making/behaviour stem from a corruption of healthy parental or peer relationships? You are saying 'straight' is the natural sexual state of men? Is that right?
These guys always confuse me. They behave as though their own unique personal experiences make their perspectives objective. They seem to not understand that the labels exist for a reason. There are many people who are 100% gay and for them there is no choice in separating desire and action, and it often comes with a lot of other personality aspects as well. For which gay people were mocked and ostracized for centuries. Gay people formed identities and cultures as a form of protection because they were deeply marginalized by society. It's weird that they would be so ignorant of this because they appear to be old enough to remember the AIDS crisis and the most homophobic periods in American history.
Having sex with a man does not make you gay . It’s part of masculine sexuality. I notice in sports there is a lot of suppressed sexual feelings and tension.
Sexuality has all shades of gray, not just straight, bi, or gay. There’s a lot in between. I do think there’s a difference between admiring a man’s physique because of their work at the gym, vs getting off on the fantasy of engaging in having sex with them, and especially in actually doing it. As a gay man, I have some heterosexual tendencies, but choose not to act on them. I can admire a beautiful, sexy woman. Yet, I absolutely identify as gay, and much prefer men. What label do I use? Human.
I'd like to solve the mystery of heterosexuality, because once we solve that mystery then perhaps we'll know what causes homosexuality and bisexuality.
Hey Chris, I feel for you having been treated badly by other guys just because of your size. This behaviour is the cruel side of human nature which I find reprehensible. You came through all that proving you’re just as much a man as they were, probably more so because in a sense they were cowards.
Why does it seem, the deeper we explore human sexuality, the less we seem to understand it? Every few decades we had new theories of sexuality. Everyone of them seems to refute the past theories. It seems sometimes, that it is a subject we have not barely reached to top of the iceberg on. From a sociology perspective, it is an interesting topic.
As far as labels, I think the label “gay” is the most constrictive. It used to mean a sexual preference. But now it’s a complete “lifestyle”. If you are not in the subculture, it’s a hard label to stand with.
Just to point out why labels are important??? Because we live in a fragmented society that identifies people based on color, religion, sex, country of origin, small, big and super big and what that does it creates a sense of belonging that allocates people it's part of social engineering and it comes from thousands of years it's just how humans work among others . So yes labels are important but not as important as the meaning we give them.
No need to be ashamed of same sex attraction. You aren't doing anything wrong. Let go of the shame that has been put upon you by a contrived societal narrative. We have made sex a shameful or taboo thing kind of. We all have sexual feelings as humans. Why are we treating it as a thing to be judged?
Crisis point had nothing to do with same sex attraction. Life/relationship was falling apart. Self-sabotaging behavior was ramping up. Fantasizing about men was the survival strategy, not problem itself.
Because most bisexual people don't have an equal attraction to both genders. I'm bisexual but more into women, I rarely find a guy attractive but it happens, but it's not just looks with guys it's their personality top, their masculinity, their mind etc. a woman could be a total bitch if she's hot and is stacked i would still want to bang her. Just being honest. Also femininity in men is a HUGE turn off for me
To me gay, straight, bi are descriptive I look at them less as labels. Do we need better terms probably but it’s important to know for a variety of reasons what someone is attracted to so you aren’t crossing a line or assuming an attraction that isn’t there. I will say that if u are gay u are gay if a straight guy wants to have sex with another man then I think if he wants to explore that then he should
I’m gay the big strong or very good look males to me I would be to me probably unfaithful and running around having sex with anyone that would stay still long enough. I’m attracted to a male that is good looking but sensitive and caring to others and kind! Not stuffing smaller guys in lockers. It is more the sense I get from them. More from my spirit..
Gay / Straight are 2 sides of the same coin. Idk about you, but every time I flip a coin it’s either head or tail. And where’s the problem? Because I like both head and tails. 👍🏽
This was reassuring as far as your aims. But I think you all are playing into the thing lots of Christians do around the identity and label talk with sexuality. It has become a new way of gently judging and denigrating gay people. It ignores the fact that most homosexual men where stigmatized and labeled as gay well before they took the label on as a description of themselves. This happens in ways that are more traumatizing than just being taunted in school as in the encounter with the worldwide violence that gay people face and that continues to be tolerated often in ones own family. To be so vulnerable and reviled in such an unapologetic way seems like a good reason to take up an identity, hell was it not such persecution that prompts Christians to self identify in that way. But the label christian like the label gay though incomplete, imprecise, effectively cutting people off from others in ways that might not be ideal persists beyond the intensity of persecution because there are so many practical reasons to be able to identify others who are also christian and the ability to be clear that you do not mean jews or Muslims or god fearers is useful. In general there are types of humor certain ways of showing care that are common between Christians that it helps to know if the person you are connecting withy understands and shares. And if you are looking for a church identifying as Christian is going to help. You may find several friends quite pleasant and understand that they share a certain spiritual orientation to life but isn't it nice that you know if they are not christian right off the bat instead of after two or three months of building ties to people in their faith community and then learning woos they are muslin. So too for gay people. It is a practical part of dating and mate selection but also of identifying others who share your experiences and that you can have greater ease with. It may be different for bisexuals and for hetero and homofellexible folks for whom labels would feel more restrictive. Lack of labels feels to me like lack of permission to have boundaries and it males me think of expectations to be atracted to and romantic with girls and that feels like being coerced into sexual and intimate dynamics that I have no interest in. It is vaguely rapey. .
Im all for being your authentic self. How do you live out a fully open sex life if you are married to a woman while having sex with men unless it is understood the marriage is open? If that was the understanding then why get married so the complexities of juggling emotions and possible feelings of betrayal are off the table? Im not making judgments...im tryimg to understand how telling "my story" isn't really on the corner of narcissism and self-absorption. If you're single then no problem.
I just wish I could find a man who actually would want to be in a healthy relationship for a lifetime. No need to be labeled. Be about me. Me about you. And let’s make a life together cuddles. Sex. Circle of friends who don’t care and enjoy our company around campfires. But be monogamous. None of this anything goes and fuck anything. Been looking for this since 17 and now 52.
There’s a difference between homosexuality and homoeroticism. if I had a sexual male is having homoerotic thoughts that doesn’t mean that he is bisexual or gay. It only means that he is having homoerotic thoughts. I’m going to ask everyone to think about that and come up with your own conclusions.
WOW! One of the best sessions EVER! i AM A 68 YR old Gay Man! I have come to the understanding that Sexuality is very fluid and can change/adjust over time. I do believe that some folks are Bi and that's OK-) Why limit one's self! Thx for knowledge sharing! Something add i sthat our sexual behaviour is also cultural and racially affected! I was born in the South but being the son of a military Father grew up all over the place, this can have an effect on one's journey as well! Keep up the good work!!! Greetings from The Chi!!!
Well I usually like the show... But guys Alexander the great, Caesar, and I don't know how many others simply weren't exposed to porn... Might have been influenced by cultural life of that time or from events in their life, but if anything whether they wanted to be sexual with another man, with a women or an ephebe, they didn't feel like they should find a reason for those urges. For one important reason, they didn't live in a time where your sexual mores were scrutinized in light of a sexual norm, or a normative sexual upbringing, like we are today, and the advent of monotheist religion that brought about the notion of shaming. At no point in this show is it even questionned, following those principles you advocate, why are the two of you attracted to women, rather than, why a guy should become attracted to another man. When the simple answer is : because we're not given the free will to make a different choice socially. In other words, to live out the sexuality we feel comfortable with, one has to stray from the "straight" norm. Period. So if one comes about with the question, how come you're gay, or bi, you can't avoid the other crucial question that's completely missing here : "why are you attracted to women in the first place ?" (I already came up with the answer above) and why do you believe that becoming attracted to another man, be deviating from your "normal sexual preference", when perhaps becoming attracted to men is your genuine nature and your attraction to women be just the result of straight education and sexual shaping succeeding
All their videos always go back to non gay examples as if that's the norm or correct thing to do. This is so typical with straight guys who used to rule the world with their 1 dimensional point of view! It would be nice to see these guys stop talking about their wives or as a kid who chases women and wake up to using gay men as examples. Gay men are far ahead of straight men in so many ways socially emotionally and spiritually yet these guys have no videos on talking about that.
You’ve got to be kidding, right ? Most gays that I’ve met are some of the most neurotic and self absorbed people I’ve met….and I say this as a SSA man. Everything is about self. The “gay world” I saw I didn’t care for too much. A lot of nastiness and backbiting.
There is no sexual fluidity. Sexual fluidity is not the same as being bisexual. There is no such thing as sexual identity. Sexual orientation is meant to isolate and medicalize same sex attraction. The gay culture has nothing to do with same sex attraction. It has to do with self hatred and alienation. What is real is that there is sexual feelings and sexual activity. Your sexual feelings and activity does not make for having a sexual identity . Last thing I want to say is that men and women have the ability to have feelings for both men and women. Men who are men and women who are women. Not men and women that are afflicted with gayism.
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Just a quick message to someone who may need to hear it. Same sex attraction doesn’t need to be something to “struggle with”. It is beautiful, it is natural, it has nothing to do with trauma, and it can be expressed in a sustainable, healthy, godly, supportive, community-minded way with a same sex sexual and life partner. Enjoy, be true to yourself, be good to others, and don’t look over your shoulder. Stand tall and don’t apologize to anyone for being yourself.
Well said. It is not a trauma or struggle.
@@italoblu nah it's a struggle, I'm bisexual but there's always some BS of I'm attracted to a guy, because I almost ALWAYS end up attracted to straight guys, it's the worst feeling in the world and it sucks. I just have to navigate the waters
x 100
@@MartinSmith156 But is that a struggle finding the right person for you rather than with your orientation? It seems that no matter where you fall on the sexual orientation continuum, you may find yourself attracted to people who don't find you attractive (in your instance, a straight guy). That's not a struggle with orientation, that's just part of dating/relationships.
Gay & straight people sometimes have a sexually abused backgtound - but many gay people come from a normal happy childhood - so please don’t turn same sex attraction into a pathology because of a lack of something
Thank you for saying this. I was brought up in a peaceful and happy home with no abuse of any kind, and here I am.
I appreciate that many people may have been abused in their childhoods, and I really think that the commentator's personal experience colors his opinions expressed on this channel--as they should. However, it is disingenuous to assume, declare or project this trauma onto others.
I personally know many, many gay people, and I don't know a single one who didn't come from a dysfunctional family (emotional neglect) or wasn't sexuality abused.
@@republiccooper I have gay friends that had normal upbringings - but I have many straight friends that were neglected, abused and never felt love but they are still straight - these issues don’t dictate ones sexuality
Sexual attraction and preference form from some cause or causes. They don't emerge spontaneously from nothing. They are not encoded for genetically. The only other factors are epigenetic or environmental.
The findings of neuroscience show that experiences with caregivers are the major drivers of affective neurocircuits, which influence developing sexuality. The reality is, our sexuality and the categories of what arouses us emerge from our earliest relationships with our parents and for a large part of the population (over 50%), physical, emotional and sexual abuse or neglect (trauma) leads to the development of insecure attachment, which shapes our emotional and interpersonal lives as well as our self and sexual identities.
people who oppose "labels" tend to only oppose the label gay, bisexual, pansexual, fluid, queer. Ask someone if they're truly 100% straight publicly, and they will have no problem with identifying with that label.
I respectfully disagree. I consider myself a gay man, and I cringe saying that because it’s a label . I find labels limiting and dangerous. They don’t allow for growth and change . What’s important to you today may have no bearing in a years time . Sex and sexuality is an activity not and identity .
@@mattschiavone3383 I disagree with you. I'm gay regardless of what activity I do. Just because I stop kissing my boyfriend doesn't mean I'm no longer gay. Also ask yourself, do you use the label "man", "your racial group" "Christian" etc. if so, you're labeling yourself, but just have a problem with the gay label.
@ I use the label human being and all that can incorporate.
I think you experience the label before you choose it. At least for me. I learned I was gay at a young age even though I didn’t know the term gay. As I got older, gay was a bad word. Something to be ashamed of. But I knew that’s what I was and what best described me and that I’d eventually have to own that and in owning it, taking it on - it lost its negative connotation. So now at 42, I say that I’m a gay man and I say it unashamed. Hope anyone struggling can get to that place. 🙏🏻 ❤
Your first sentence is spot on. It brings to mind a statement by Barack Obama (when he first ran for President): he was asked why he identified as Black. Why did he not choose to say he was White vice Black? He said something like "the world chose for me."
@@WinfreyWright interesting and def true. In a lot of ways, yes the world chooses things to project on you. I just knew I was really fond of men. I enjoyed their company.. as I got older I was very interested in men. lol So, I started to realize…oh this is gay.
Thank you for your comment! I agree 100%. My experience with my sexuality is very similar. I knew from a very young age I knew how I felt, and who I was and was not attracted to. It wasn't until I was in my teens that I learned what the label of "gay" meant and what kinds of stigmas it brought along with it. Being from a small conservative community, I learned it was something I should be ashamed of. It took getting away from that community and finding a community of acceptance that I was able to own my sexuality without shame. So now, like you, I'm in my 40's and am unashamed to say I am a gay man. Being gay feels natural and normal.
@@RossH-ky3jr 😀♥️🌈 Happy for you. It’s sad that so many men have feel shame about it that sometimes they can’t admit who they are. As someone said here earlier, the world tells you how to feel about things. But then you have to decide if you’re going to accept that. Glad you didn’t.
is it really important to deduce why men become appealing to other men? it sort of leaves us thinking there is something to fix. i've found a lot of freedom in just stopping the inner inquisition and allowing feelings to unfold without judgment....
Same sex attraction is not a pathology!
It’s is on this podcast
I was born and raised in a small conservative catholic Mexican community, very “typical “macho” society.
My parents, brothers and sister were always nice caring and loving to each other and yet I am gay.
When I was very young and I started to show signs I was different than my brothers, my parents always tried to steer me to the “right path” but never in a mean or abusive way.
I ended up migrating to the USA 25 years ago and now in my 50’s and totally out, my whole family loves and accepts me, so when you are gay you are born this way you don’t become gay because of abuse or environmental factors.
I am 100% GAY to the core....always have been. Never interested in women sexually.
Does that mean you have an extra gooey center!? I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. 🏳️🌈#ally
And?
@@secretsauce5678 And?? Come kiss me baby!
@@secretsauce5678 He's saying that "labels" can be true. Cuz the guy in the video was saying he "didn't like labels like 'gay' or 'straight' etc." But some people ARE 100% gay or straight ,etc...
Same. “I just met you…call me maybe” 😂
Im bisexual but primarily attracted to women, it took me a long time to accept my gay side. Because I'm traditionally masculine and come from a "men are men" upbringing. But I've had lots of great experiences with guys and almost all of them were either straight but experimenting or bisexual themselves. These are all alpha masculine men as well, in my old neighborhood, it was crazy how many straight guys were doing gay shit undercover and I'm in a situation now where I just ended a long relationship with a woman and I was faithful to her the whole time and have accepted that I now have feelings for my straight best friend, I told him expecting the worst, and he told me I can get give hm oral sex if I wanted. So again a lot of "straight" men also send up bi guys mixed signals. This guy is also masculine, he was the captain of his high school football team and is now a construction worker. Do women know how common male/male hookups are?
I totally can relate. I'm very masculine myself and most of the guys I've done stuff with are straight guys
I've come to understand that most straight men seek companionship and a deeper friendship that is not transactional. Once they bond with you, they will be loyal and stick to you. The only twist is that the first time they have gay s£x , they sort of go into a sort of shock but end up coming back for more.
Not to also add how difficult women have become these days.
@@johnchukwu2697You are gay if you like men period and most women don't like men who likes D*cks that disgust them thank God
When I was growing up playing around with the boys was part of growing up and eventually we started to play around with the girls
@@Jim-og8uy yup. But I was the opposite I lost my virginity very young to a girl and didn't even think about guys until my early 20s. There's a certain type of guy that I'm attracted to, a very masculine bro type with a sense of humor
One of the better discussions on this topic I’ve seen- first half in particular. When you got to applying Aristotelian ‘A’ is ‘A’ causal connections, you lost me. We make the mistake of thinking causality is linear when it’s multifaceted in reality.
It also seemed that some of the ‘logic’ then applied was used to make certain not to ‘identify’ as anything other than human-Non-categorized sexuality- but it felt to me like there was a little internalized homophobia- if I’m wrong, it’s all OK and I appreciate so much of what was said.
It’s all about intimacy. Heterosexist ideology believes that intimacy is only supposed to be between people of the opposite sex.
It's all about balance. Be with who you like and when you do, make sure the connection is meaningful. When it's meaningful you find yourself learning more about the things that make life more vivid..
I’m with you both on the rejection of labels. Labels are so limiting. I strive for connection with others without judgement.
People like what they like and it can change depending on many factors, we make a bigger deal out of it when it really is very simple.
Interesting discussion. A couple of comments from me though. Firstly, I struggle to be able to describe or remember anything much prior to being 10, and yet I imagine that much of the important interactions that may have fed into my sexuality probably occurred before that. Certainly, if I peer back into my early school days, I can remember exhibiting many of the typical “gay child” behaviour, interests etc, long before I understood what they might be pointing towards. I can’t experience someone else’s internal dialogue, so I can only see my own feelings as being “normal”, hence the confusion and pain felt by those who later realise that they are “different” from others. Secondly, my romantic and sexual orientation is towards men, and yet my older brother is married with kids. He had a similar upbringing, with the same parents, although of course he didn’t have an identical childhood. It’s very easy to point toward the emotional unavailability of my father, or whatever, but we had the same dad. Thirdly, while I can, maybe, look back and pick out a handful of experiences that may have influenced my developing erotic awareness, it occurs to me that I may remember them BECAUSE of their perceived significance. The same scenarios if experienced by my brother may not have been significant or memorable. This discussion made me feel somewhat uncomfortable because it seemed to pathologise non heterosexual sexuality and attempt to find a cause. This is all very well, I feel it to be unhelpful, but I’m willing to accept that there maybe some element of truth in it. However, where does that get us? Am I then to attempt to rectify my sexual attractions? How do I feel about the idea that my deeply felt sexuality, which has caused so much angst in my life, may have its origins in stuff that happened in my childhood. It feels like a watered down version of the narrative that you still hear regularly, that gay men have all been abused in some way as children. I would ask you, does it feel any better to know that your erotic response to hyper masculine guys in times of stress is the possible result of your parenting, and your wish to be one of those confidential muscular types at school? What do you do with that information?
@@sandrew255 you know I think it’s society that defines sexual norms - being gay we’ve got to stop trying to find an answer as if there is something wrong - my bother and I had the same upbringing but he’s straight and I’m gay - and anyway childhood trauma, abuse or neglect does not dictate sexual preference but it can make us unstable in our adult relationship, romantic or otherwise in so many ways - I am attracted to men and I embrace it
Growing up, neighbor boys would be curious about each others bodies and how things work, but in high school, another male class mate and I became "f*** buddies" for many years after HS as well. But I always identified gay since I've had that attraction at a young age, but my buddy identified as bi, eventually married and had kids. We obviously stopped there and went separate ways.
this is a refreshing discussion for me. i've settled for being overtly ambivalent about my sexuality for a long time. it's not been until recently that i accepted that "i'm gay". i've always chafed at the categories though. i don't like being pigeonholed into some role. but it's felt necessary to bring clarity to my relations with men and women.
I am so impressed by you guys. Thanks for putting so this stuff out there. As a gay man when i accepted my sexuality, i started seeking a gay life style because i wanted to identify with other gay men to find out who i was. I was comfortable and accepted by other gay men and i used it as a foundation on which to build my life.
I think they are full of it . The guy w no facial hair masterbates to gay porn as an adult man . Give me a break dude. You’re not straight . Cut the crap
Most men are still scared of the labels gay or bi...those men are quick to say "I'm straight." I also understand that the labels are off-putting to some people. The labels don't bother me; I refer to myself as a 64 YO gay man. But I have a mixed sexual history in that I had a wife for many years when I was young. Then I had a decade long relationship with a man. Afterwards I fell for a woman, oddly.
I have never been promiscuous, into 1-night stands, etc. I have been sexually intimate with fewer than 10 men, a large portion of whom considered themselves to be straight. So I agree that sexual behavior does not necessarily mean the same thing as sexual orientation. For a couple years I had a straight male 'acquaintance with benefits.' At one point he started to become more attached to me than I was comfortable with. When he told me that he had fallen in love with me, I was shocked and internally said "whoa."
Winfrey we are the same age and had similar life experiences...would like to find the right platform to discuss more, the consequences and mind sets and traps we set for ourselves. Do you participate in other platform designed for discussion?
The only thing I got out of this ,is that your both interested in men. I'm totally gay and fine with that. I Love myself. Although I'm totally confused with the type of man, I love. The abusive type im used to or a loving person I'm bored with.be happy with who you are.
I have gay friends who somehow met a woman and fell in love, and I've seen straight men who connect with another men on a very deeper level and end up falling in love with them
@johnchukwu2697
Your statement is a bit far-fetched. What kind of sample size are you talking about where you personally know or have seen "straight" men who fell in love with another man?
@paulthomas281 I'm speaking from my own experiences in life. First hand.
If one thing life has taught, any of us is that it can surprise you
@@johnchukwu2697 I didn't mean to sound abrasive with my comment. And yes, life can surprise all those who live it. But cases that you describe are far few and between. I wish to combat prevailing views nowadays that bisexuality is more common than we think. Bisexuality is actually quite rare.
@paulthomas281 it's alright. We are communicating, and I don't think you were being confrontational.
I think bisexuality is quite common. Most people dabble into stuff to see what it feels like.
In my opinion, bisexuality is a situation whereby someone can feel deeply and show vulnerability to either male or female. For me, sex is pretty shallow. A gay man can marry, sleep with a woman, and have kids just to hide his identity. It doesn't mean he's straight or bisexual.
Also, a straight man can get very horny and wouldn't mind a dude provided he's able to burst a big nut. His feelings are not involved. Just the same way a man can f*&k a prostitute and walk away like nothing happened
@@paulthomas281 far-fetched doesn't mean impossible but yes. I would say statistically speaking it's more likely that a gay identifying man falls in love with a woman than a straight man with another man. There's no real incentive in much of our society to be exclusively homosexual, and biologically no real incentive either since our parts don't work that way. BUT there is some psychological and or societal basis for same sex behavior. Neither contradict but they exist on two different planes of expression. There is incentive for reproduction but for some of that persuasion, there is satisfaction, joy, intimacy, and mental fortitude for being with the same sex sexually, or platonically, or familial.
Loved this video to the degree that I cannot express my feelings with words.
Since 3 years ago I also started thinking the same about labels and how isolating they are for humankind and sadly at that time I came to know the term " Romantic Orientation " and I was utterly disappointed.
Watching this video gave me hope, I saw other people who think exactly like me and hopefully with your help and guidance there will be a growth on this mindset.
Thanks to both of you guys!
Keep it up!
It seems to me though the people who are struggling can't accept they are same sex attracted. It's not hard to work out you're bisexual if you are attracted to both sexes or if you are monosexual and only attracted to opposite or same sex. It seems the confusion comes when the person feels shame about their same-sex attractions that they try to deny or repress that part of them and ends up creating a lot of confusion, cognitive dissonance and then they start resenting labels because to them that seems the cause of their confusion, when in reality it's just they cannot accept those feelings inside themselves or don;t want to be labeled gay or bisexual. The issue is not the labels, it's your feelings about the label. The truth is if you are attracted to both sexes, even if you have more of a preference for one sex, then you're bisexual and it really is that simple. Truly heterosexual or homosexual people really are only attracted to one sex and don't feel confused about it and they don't mind labels, in fact many gay people will say that labelling their sexuality was relieving and they were better able to find gay communities and spaces to meet other gay people because most of the friends and people they grew up with were straight. This is universal too because wherever you go in the world the majority of the population are straight, and that's because of biology.
@@aliross2720 Hello to you.
I am not confused nor do I have any problems with myself.
I am a 41 years old man who knew he was different since he was 14.
I used to identify with the labels but as I said in my 1st comment its been 3 or 4 years that I cannot identify with any label anymore, as I mentioned I found them isolating. I am also openly out and have no fears or insecurities about myself.
Instead of using labels ( if anyone asks about my choices ) I would explain to them about my sexual interest, and if they are really close to me and really curious and eager to know about my choices I can give them the reasons about the choices that I have made or will make.
@@Harima-gtf You're no different than anyone else that cuts to the chase and labels their orientation and doesn't complicate it for the sake of complicating it.
This discussion was so beautiful Guys! So great talks like this can take place among men nowadays. Blessings.
I have been attracted to men since I was fourteen. I admitted it to myself as college started. I think my father knew ten years before me.
What an interesting discussion. I’m going to have to watch it again to get my head around the neuropathy part! 🙃 As I listen to you, I try to compare my back story to how it compares to what you are saying -vs- what your experiences are/were. I now have a headache… From what I have witnessed, not with just myself, but others I’ve interacted with along the way, a lot of it seems to come back to religious beliefs or what were “supposed” to believe. There is a strong Puritanical believe system in everyone I have ever met. Any deviation from that results in fire and brimstone for eternity. Therefore, you have to have the correct label or you are not worthy. Being a gay (label) man I’ve had to fight for gay rights all of my life, which pushed even deeper that label into my psyche. I have been trying to make the world a better place for the generations of gays to follow. I don’t like the descriptors placed on people like, queer, squirrelly, candy ass and the list goes on and on. Now the new generations I have fought for, love to be called queer… what the hell did I fight for? The snake eating it’s “tale.”
The conversation between the two of you have opened up a lot of things to be unpacked beyond this comment to you. (Hell, was I even supposed to be a guy!?) I’m 61 and have lots to learn about should’a, could’a, would’a in the past that is stopping my growth in the future. Sometimes I feel like my work here on earth is done and wonder what will be in the next. 😊
bisexuality is the natural state of humankind.
@alun5903
No it's not. Bisexuality is NOT the natural state of humankind. Far too many men have this false view that if a man finds another man attractive, it means they could develop feelings for that person. Romantic and sexual coupling for the vast majority of humans is binary. One is either heterosexual or homosexual in their mating choices. It's a small minority who are bisexual. Fleeting attraction here and there is often misunderstood and misconstrued.
How can you differentiate between attraction and arousal?
Guys, I can smell so many hangups there, plus you are talking about abuse and healing, and linking this to sex, and desire, and homosexual behaviour. Plus you are linking porn to abuse and shame and wrong behaviours. This does not sound right.
too much psycho-babble for me!
Yes agree our sexual attractions are not linked to sexual abuse
@WeGotBallsPod I'm sorry to hear that you got abused Scott. You 2 are great
One of your best videos.
Huge meaning to me
Thank you
"If I can get it right, if I can align myself with right behavior, I'll be a right person. And that's just horseshit." I love you guys. I wish you could be broadcast on a Jumbotron. Keep talking and keep up the incredible work!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
You guys are helping.. I enjoy watching
Just wanted to tell you two blokes that I admire your bravery & honesty. Just feeling things out for now but will get around to engaging more with the channel. I've 'known' probably close to a thousand men & a few women over the years but will get to that later. This is the stuff that doesn't get talked about when we think of 'gay' contact between men. That word sends a lot of blokes running for the hills. Great job gents. 👍
Let’s use some examples of good behavior in Scott’s discussion on labels. He used lying and stealing as behaviors that don’t necessarily define someone as a liar or a thief.
If I donate to a charity one time in my life, does that label me as a charitable man? If I have behaved kindly toward strangers only once or twice, does that mean that I can be labeled as a kind person? Helpful? Kind? Charitable? Responsible?? Intelligent? If I have demonstrated those traits, does it mean that I AM those traits? If the answer is yes then we must label toxic narcissists as wonderful people.
This is an incredible podcast. I want to listen to this particular one again. You guy are terrific.
I wonder if there was not enough time for this episode to address another layer to Chris’s erotic thoughts about men that remind him of his football team in high school. The football team members were abusive and unkind. They were also intensely masculine and confident. It seems to me that wanting a confident, masculine man to approve of what Chris is doing and accept him exactly how he is through sexual behavior would be a very powerful erotic template. That is, having one of those confident, masculine men enjoying everything that Chris is providing to them in a fantasy, these men enjoying him and approving of him deeply, and telling him that it’s good, telling him that what he’s doing is fantastic…these things contribute an intensity-beyond-measure to the erotic template toward those men.
Don't limit yourself as a human by defining yourself by your sexual preference. You are much more than that. Also, you don't have to act upon whoever you are sexualy attracted to. In fact, its probably best if you don't. At least until love enters the equation.
This was a good find. In this conversation I heard a lot about image. Wanting to look like and be like others. I found that to be where things go wrong. Get educated about life and how things work. This tells me that people have not evolved like we should have. People still want the pretty package regardless if it has no value and empty. The plan package has more value. Just look at a small child. One the wrappings are off and the gift is out of the box. What is the one thing they are amused with. The plan box. The gift is sitting on the side. Look beyond the pretty package.
Thanks, guys! This was a super helpful video. It gave me a huge clue into my own story that I've been missing.
An extremely well-done video, guys. I am gay, 100%, and can relate to some much of what both of you shared and discussed.
Do you know straight men that masterbate to gay porn ? I don’t . Implicit in this nonsense is that if your same sex attracted your somehow lost or lacking connection. It’s a condescending message probably designed to get self loathing people into there ‘camps’ of connection. I think it’s a business . They talk in circles but always come back to a muddle of gay is ok - but maybe your just lost . Maybe you need connection. They like to strongly suggest gay men are a result of no fathers - total bullshit not based in science. If it were true god knows there would be a lot more gay men. The central idea that needing connection with male is valid but - give me break you don’t want to see them nude - unless your same sex attracted . Lots of people feel lost . Let’s not confuse same sex attraction to lack of connection.
People don’t necessarily sexually identify or pick a label for themselves. They do it for others, so that other people can process and accept them. They are just living their lives.
More and more this channel seems like a permission structure for gay and bisexual men to never fully aknowledge their actual preferences
Exactly.., and the irony is the with no facial hair - it’s at least bi … he needs to get over himself and suck a cock .
It's not about them. It's about you.
This channel is clearly for the DL fam they are promoting DLism.
it actually sounds to me like these guys are leaving the constructs of labels and discovering aspects of themselves with other men that straight culture has not allowed. to categorize them as gay is sort of simplistic and i think misses what they are sharing.
I stumbled upon this show...interesting topic.
Really? Ok!
@@Leo-hv9mm yeah really...whats the problem
This is the best pod cast , so far.
Can’t gay or bi sexual men just acknowledge it instead of acting like it’s complicated and try and make it seem like such a grey area. It’s not, you either like Men or you don’t. To say otherwise to me is just cowardliness. Because you can’t just admit the truth and tell it like it is? There’s nothing wrong with admitting your sexual orientation. If someone has made you feel bad because of the way it sounds, that’s on you and your issues with it.
I don’t have a problem with admitting I’m gay. I think in a backwards way to say the label/word “ Gay” is offensive to say, is what’s offensive! There’s nothing offensive about that word. It simply describes a sexual orientation. You’re making this a bad thing by not acknowledging it! It’s not a bad label. Should we just throw a dictionary out and not label anything, anything! Not trying to be rude but come on, get real.
Amen well said - I think they are in the business of getting self loathing people to spend money on their camps
It is great to hear these honest discussions between men about sex. I am Gay but still have an emotional interest in women 26:03
Very useful conversation, thank you.
Hank from South Africa
Nother South African here. Greetings. 👍🏻😊
You guys are so awesome. I learn so much from both of you.
I was definitely thinking on the case of us being "image bearers".
Excellent explanation 👍⭐️🙋♂️💙🌈✝️
Eye opening episode for me. Thanks guys !
The underlying assumption of your discussion is that bi or gay desire/meaning making/behaviour stem from a corruption of healthy parental or peer relationships? You are saying 'straight' is the natural sexual state of men? Is that right?
That is clearly their assumption. It's Christian doctrine after all that homosexuality is a perversion from the divine template.
These guys always confuse me. They behave as though their own unique personal experiences make their perspectives objective. They seem to not understand that the labels exist for a reason. There are many people who are 100% gay and for them there is no choice in separating desire and action, and it often comes with a lot of other personality aspects as well. For which gay people were mocked and ostracized for centuries. Gay people formed identities and cultures as a form of protection because they were deeply marginalized by society. It's weird that they would be so ignorant of this because they appear to be old enough to remember the AIDS crisis and the most homophobic periods in American history.
Thank you!
Having sex with a man does not make you gay . It’s part of masculine sexuality. I notice in sports there is a lot of suppressed sexual feelings and tension.
It may not make you gay, but it certainty doesn't make you straight...
kudos to both of you... always looking forward to watching your interesting topics everytime...🤜🤛
Sexuality has all shades of gray, not just straight, bi, or gay. There’s a lot in between. I do think there’s a difference between admiring a man’s physique because of their work at the gym, vs getting off on the fantasy of engaging in having sex with them, and especially in actually doing it. As a gay man, I have some heterosexual tendencies, but choose not to act on them. I can admire a beautiful, sexy woman. Yet, I absolutely identify as gay, and much prefer men. What label do I use? Human.
I'd like to solve the mystery of heterosexuality, because once we solve that mystery then perhaps we'll know what causes homosexuality and bisexuality.
Hey Chris, I feel for you having been treated badly by other guys just because of your size. This behaviour is the cruel side of human nature which I find reprehensible. You came through all that proving you’re just as much a man as they were, probably more so because in a sense they were cowards.
Why does it seem, the deeper we explore human sexuality, the less we seem to understand it? Every few decades we had new theories of sexuality. Everyone of them seems to refute the past theories. It seems sometimes, that it is a subject we have not barely reached to top of the iceberg on. From a sociology perspective, it is an interesting topic.
As far as labels, I think the label “gay” is the most constrictive. It used to mean a sexual preference. But now it’s a complete “lifestyle”. If you are not in the subculture, it’s a hard label to stand with.
InvisAlign Chris, can work wonders!
*i´ve said something, and i wont cjange my mind / depending on place and circumstances Everyone is also gay*
Just to point out why labels are important???
Because we live in a fragmented society that identifies people based on color, religion, sex, country of origin, small, big and super big and what that does it creates a sense of belonging that allocates people it's part of social engineering and it comes from thousands of years it's just how humans work among others .
So yes labels are important but not as important as the meaning we give them.
The labels are there for our fragile masculine egos .
Don’t forget the economic angle. People go gay for pay all the time, and I’m not even talking about sex workers.
I'm curious if either of them have looked into hypnotherapy as a way to uncover some root-cause memories. I think that would be a great episode.
No need to be ashamed of same sex attraction. You aren't doing anything wrong. Let go of the shame that has been put upon you by a contrived societal narrative. We have made sex a shameful or taboo thing kind of. We all have sexual feelings as humans. Why are we treating it as a thing to be judged?
Excellent video!!
So...are you equating reaching your "crisis point" with having same sex attraction?
Crisis point had nothing to do with same sex attraction. Life/relationship was falling apart. Self-sabotaging behavior was ramping up. Fantasizing about men was the survival strategy, not problem itself.
Excellent video!
One of your best videos yet. Loved it! But..... OMG, ads every 2 mins!!
I will not minimize my gayness to fit your narrative.
Chris is so 🔥.
every person ive ever met who claims to be bi i can clearly tell if they are more straight or more gay
Because most bisexual people don't have an equal attraction to both genders. I'm bisexual but more into women, I rarely find a guy attractive but it happens, but it's not just looks with guys it's their personality top, their masculinity, their mind etc. a woman could be a total bitch if she's hot and is stacked i would still want to bang her. Just being honest. Also femininity in men is a HUGE turn off for me
To me gay, straight, bi are descriptive I look at them less as labels. Do we need better terms probably but it’s important to know for a variety of reasons what someone is attracted to so you aren’t crossing a line or assuming an attraction that isn’t there. I will say that if u are gay u are gay if a straight guy wants to have sex with another man then I think if he wants to explore that then he should
I’m gay the big strong or very good look males to me I would be to me probably unfaithful and running around having sex with anyone that would stay still long enough. I’m attracted to a male that is good looking but sensitive and caring to others and kind! Not stuffing smaller guys in lockers. It is more the sense I get from them. More from my spirit..
Is there any real difference between your understanding and that of Elizabeth Moberly decades ago?
It's the same premise.
Gay / Straight are 2 sides of the same coin. Idk about you, but every time I flip a coin it’s either head or tail. And where’s the problem? Because I like both head and tails. 👍🏽
This was reassuring as far as your aims. But I think you all are playing into the thing lots of Christians do around the identity and label talk with sexuality. It has become a new way of gently judging and denigrating gay people. It ignores the fact that most homosexual men where stigmatized and labeled as gay well before they took the label on as a description of themselves. This happens in ways that are more traumatizing than just being taunted in school as in the encounter with the worldwide violence that gay people face and that continues to be tolerated often in ones own family.
To be so vulnerable and reviled in such an unapologetic way seems like a good reason to take up an identity, hell was it not such persecution that prompts Christians to self identify in that way. But the label christian like the label gay though incomplete, imprecise, effectively cutting people off from others in ways that might not be ideal persists beyond the intensity of persecution because there are so many practical reasons to be able to identify others who are also christian and the ability to be clear that you do not mean jews or Muslims or god fearers is useful.
In general there are types of humor certain ways of showing care that are common between Christians that it helps to know if the person you are connecting withy understands and shares. And if you are looking for a church identifying as Christian is going to help. You may find several friends quite pleasant and understand that they share a certain spiritual orientation to life but isn't it nice that you know if they are not christian right off the bat instead of after two or three months of building ties to people in their faith community and then learning woos they are muslin. So too for gay people. It is a practical part of dating and mate selection but also of identifying others who share your experiences and that you can have greater ease with. It may be different for bisexuals and for hetero and homofellexible folks for whom labels would feel more restrictive.
Lack of labels feels to me like lack of permission to have boundaries and it males me think of expectations to be atracted to and romantic with girls and that feels like being coerced into sexual and intimate dynamics that I have no interest in. It is vaguely rapey. .
I'm a try-sexual, I'll try anything once, lol
Thanks!
I wanna git me one a those Chris Inman hugs!! 😉
Im all for being your authentic self. How do you live out a fully open sex life if you are married to a woman while having sex with men unless it is understood the marriage is open? If that was the understanding then why get married so the complexities of juggling emotions and possible feelings of betrayal are off the table? Im not making judgments...im tryimg to understand how telling "my story" isn't really on the corner of narcissism and self-absorption. If you're single then no problem.
You just aren't picky about what you eat.
I like men, but there is this 10% of me that likes women really likes them especially when I look at Paula Page or Sam Fox, why is that.
I just wish I could find a man who actually would want to be in a healthy relationship for a lifetime. No need to be labeled. Be about me. Me about you. And let’s make a life together cuddles. Sex. Circle of friends who don’t care and enjoy our company around campfires. But be monogamous. None of this anything goes and fuck anything. Been looking for this since 17 and now 52.
There’s a difference between homosexuality and homoeroticism. if I had a sexual male is having homoerotic thoughts that doesn’t mean that he is bisexual or gay. It only means that he is having homoerotic thoughts. I’m going to ask everyone to think about that and come up with your own conclusions.
If a guy have homoerotic thoughts he is GAY no straight man in the world have ever experienced homo erotic thoughts. 😊
is this guy a certified psychologist? a professional of some kind or no?
Well i think if you dont know your sex preference you will mess around and decide.
Is it a sex thing or love thing
WOW! One of the best sessions EVER! i AM A 68 YR old Gay Man! I have come to the understanding that Sexuality is very fluid and can change/adjust over time. I do believe that some folks are Bi and that's OK-) Why limit one's self! Thx for knowledge sharing! Something add i sthat our sexual behaviour is also cultural and racially affected! I was born in the South but being the son of a military Father grew up all over the place, this can have an effect on one's journey as well! Keep up the good work!!! Greetings from The Chi!!!
Well I usually like the show... But guys Alexander the great, Caesar, and I don't know how many others simply weren't exposed to porn... Might have been influenced by cultural life of that time or from events in their life, but if anything whether they wanted to be sexual with another man, with a women or an ephebe, they didn't feel like they should find a reason for those urges. For one important reason, they didn't live in a time where your sexual mores were scrutinized in light of a sexual norm, or a normative sexual upbringing, like we are today, and the advent of monotheist religion that brought about the notion of shaming. At no point in this show is it even questionned, following those principles you advocate, why are the two of you attracted to women, rather than, why a guy should become attracted to another man. When the simple answer is : because we're not given the free will to make a different choice socially. In other words, to live out the sexuality we feel comfortable with, one has to stray from the "straight" norm. Period. So if one comes about with the question, how come you're gay, or bi, you can't avoid the other crucial question that's completely missing here : "why are you attracted to women in the first place ?" (I already came up with the answer above) and why do you believe that becoming attracted to another man, be deviating from your "normal sexual preference", when perhaps becoming attracted to men is your genuine nature and your attraction to women be just the result of straight education and sexual shaping succeeding
need you ask?
All their videos always go back to non gay examples as if that's the norm or correct thing to do. This is so typical with straight guys who used to rule the world with their 1 dimensional point of view! It would be nice to see these guys stop talking about their wives or as a kid who chases women and wake up to using gay men as examples. Gay men are far ahead of straight men in so many ways socially emotionally and spiritually yet these guys have no videos on talking about that.
You’ve got to be kidding, right ? Most gays that I’ve met are some of the most neurotic and self absorbed people I’ve met….and I say this as a SSA man. Everything is about self. The “gay world” I saw I didn’t care for too much. A lot of nastiness and backbiting.
scott is way too technical. blah bah blah. chris is way too cute.
HAVE YOU HEARD OF ORTHODONTICS?
YOUR LOWER TEETH ARE SO MISALIGNED - IT WILL HURT YOUR BITE.
There is no sexual fluidity. Sexual fluidity is not the same as being bisexual. There is no such thing as sexual identity. Sexual orientation is meant to isolate and medicalize same sex attraction. The gay culture has nothing to do with same sex attraction. It has to do with self hatred and alienation. What is real is that there is sexual feelings and sexual activity. Your sexual feelings and activity does not make for having a sexual identity . Last thing I want to say is that men and women have the ability to have feelings for both men and women. Men who are men and women who are women. Not men and women that are afflicted with gayism.
You’re a horrible excuse for a person. Screw you and your judgment.
thanks for this post.....first time glad I stumbled in and yes I subscribed.... very curious about the behavior drivers