Wampler Pedals my favorite amp is my own Series 1 Lonestar, but lately I’ve been experimenting with the Drive and Tweed modes a little. It gets aggressive in a hurry!
Low watts for me I use a few amps my main amp is a Fender deluxe reverb 22watts a Marshall DSL 5watt a Roland Blue cube Artist 0.5 to 80 watts Fender blues Junior 15watts and Yamaha THR 10C for the living room :-) please keep the videos coming really enjoy thank you Brian
Low wattage in the studio, unless I need a ton of clean headroom. High wattage on the stage, unless it's open mic night... I cant decide Brian, please tell me the correct answer.
I like higher wattage, but not for volume reasons. The bigger transformers keep the bottom end more "solid" sounding to me. Not more low end, per se, but more solid low end.
I prefer lower wattage amps for 2 reasons. 1. You can get “natural” amp distortion at lower volumes. 2. My back doesn’t break trying to carry, and load the sucker for gigs. I’ve never played a gig with my Fender deluxe 212 that I could get the volume above “2”. So I have to rely on pedals. My Pro junior I can get up to some natural break-up volumes (with humbucker pups).
Technically 3 dB louder IS double the pressure. It’s logarithmic. It doesn’t mean we perceive 2x as loud but based on physics +3 dB SPL IS twice as much sound pressure.
That's a good way to put it, my point in the video is that it doesn't sound like twice as loud, which is the measure that most guitarists are going to use.
Nope, +6 dB is twice as much sound pressure, +3 dB is twice the acoustic power (intensity/wattage), +10 dB is twice the psychoacoustic loudness. You can easily calculate the psychoacoustic loudness: log10(dB * 10), so +3 dB is log10(3 *10) is about 1.477 times as loud for the human ear.
Were all talking about wattage here, but is no one gonna bring up Brian is friends with Synyster Gates and was borrowing one of his personal signatures???
@@allfornaught0 not the biggest fan, but they actually are a pretty cool band once you get to learn about them, but they are pretty cringey at times lol
Same here. I can attest to little perceived differences with respect to wattage. I had a mesa Lonestar, but mine had 5w, 15w, 30w....or something like that. I can't remember exactly. I could not tell the difference though between any of the 3 wattages. Granted, I never used the clean ch. The higher wattage probably did have more headroom on clean ch......if I'm understanding whats been said lol
In would like to say you are really providing great service to guitar community to de-mytholize and correct misunderstandings, provide clarity, and demolishing old canards by bringing experience, demonstration, knowledge and the resources unique to YOU, for the benefit of us. Great topic and video here. Thank you.
Decibel increase is exponential, For example, every increase of 10 dB on the decibel scale is equal to a 10-fold increase in sound pressure level (SPL). Near silence is expressed as 0 dB but a sound measured at 10 dB is actually 10 times louder. If a sound is 20 dB, that's 100 times louder than near silence.
Done a lot of experimenting with low wattage and high wattage and I’ve basically determined that high wattage amps almost always are better for me. They tend to just sound a lot fuller. Also, anytime I go to local shows, it’s the guys who crank up that have the best sound. One of my favorite local blues rock players plays a 100 watt fender showman on 10 with a plexi glass in front and it still sounds perfectly balanced with the band and vocals. But the guitar is so dynamic and alive compared to guys I see playing little fender combos
Yea I agree, I always try to use the highest I can get away with, but in the sweet spot. That means 20-50 watt most of the time. I do use the 100 watt amps sometimes for outside or something but If it's mic'ed I don't really care, I use whatever I'm feeling at the time. I don't know it's just what I do, not right or bad one way or another, it's just what works for me and what I do I guess
It all comes down to how much headroom you want. Single-ended low-watt amps can drive a 4x12 and get you plenty of volume, but you will have no "clean" tone to speak of.
As Brian says - have a listen and pick what you like. I would generally add that more output tubes are probably better sounding than larger output tubes for a given db level. They are fatter and fill a space more due to the slight differences in each tube. e.g. 4x 6v6's vs 2x 6l6gc ditto or el84 vs el34. I might also depend on whether you want transformer and/or speaker distortion or not and whether you want clean sounds or not. Think of a watt as a measure of consumption. not "output". things that can effect output: 1) A poor performing speaker will output less as it consumes some of the energy (3db difference in a speaker can be huge). 2) Biasing can drastically change consumption (you can bias a 6l6gc from 12w to above 30w ) 3) Given most larger amps are class AB, the output stage has a component of fixed "amplification" and is consuming watts whether it is outputting loud sound or not. output volume is dependent on input signal. 4) Typically amp designers bias pre-amps lower if more bass frequencies are to be allowed through. Bass requires more power to hear the sound, making the amp sound quieter overall. Usually smaller wattage amps dont do bass well as they dont have enough watts to play with. 5) Many amps are rated on the tubes/biasing used, not on the actual watts output measured at the speaker. A 6550 can run solidly at 4x it's rated output due to cycle usage. Many 15w amps run 18w or 20w. Many 30w amps run 40w (slight differences in reality but not for marketing). It's all fun and games. Keep up the great work Mr Wampler
I like fairly high powered amps with attenuation. My home setup is Twin Reverb and Tremolux (35w) into 2x12. It's the sweetest clean-ish tone I can think of. Never get tired of it.
I like how you presented this Brian. You presented the material in a way that anyone can apprehend the information. That the gain staging can make a huge difference was something new to me and explains why my Rivera Era Fender Super Champ is the loudest 18 watts I’ve ever encountered. Again, thank you.
This common misunderstanding originates from all the music stores. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been told anything over 20 watts is overkill for home use. If fact I’m sure that many overs have been told this to the point were amp makers are now making 20 watt versions of their amps due to market demand. This video changes my perspective of amps now. Thank you for sharing with us.
Thanks for your videos Brian, always entertaining and informative. I think a lot of the time when people talk about 'loud' amps they actually mean sensitive amps: ones that are difficult to control. I had an 18w 1974x amp that was very difficult to play at low levels because it was so sensitive due I think mainly to no negative feedback like a Vox. This effect can also come from badly designed master volumes that give you everything in the first tiny portion of their sweep. I now use Power Scaled amps which give as much power amp headroom or lack of it that you want at any volume within their maximum power capability. They solve every problem I ever had with valve amps!
I'm used to 50 watts but I've got a 20 watt silver jubilee and a mark v35 both are loud enough for me. I think there's a sweet spot that you can't put a wattage label on, and that spot is the point where the is compressed enough to push some air and give sustain. Pre amp and speaker/cab will give the flavoring. I'm happy in the lower wattage range. I feel like 100 is overkill for my needs but the attenuator is a wonderful solution even to a lower wattage amp that gets loud
I set up a stereo rig two years ago - to Oranges OR15, each with PPC112. Never been happier with tone and mobility. I still have my Rockerverb 50 and PPC212, though!
Good subject matter. If you look at guitar history. The way guitarists run their rig makes a difference as well. I’ve run twin reverbs cranked, but my guitar volume was barely cracked. So the amp was still cooking, but it was clean and reasonable volume. Also, the amount and type of distortion can change a listeners perception of volume. There are loads of factors to take into account when talking about perceived volume.
The received wisdom from the audio/sound-reproduction side of the world is that, with the same input signal and speakers, one requires 10x the wattage to result in double the sound-pressure level. So, 100W = twice the loudness of 10W. In theoretical terms, that holds true. In amplifier terms, however, not quite so much, simply because wattage tends to be associated with a bunch of other things about amplifiers that will also facilitate higher SPLs, like speaker size, speaker efficiency, cab size, etc. So, a higher wattage amp will have larger speakers, and generally more of them (not very many 4 x 10 dual 6V6 amps out there). And more and larger speakers will necessitate a larger cab volume, which will provide more oomph per watt. I'm fortunate enough to own a pair of '59 tweeds - a 6W Princeton and a Bassman - and though I long-ago replaced the stock 8" Jensen in the Princeton with a more efficient JBL, there isn't much getting around the fact that the Princeton cab is a mere fraction of the Bassman, and not simply "half as loud". Let us also distinguish the *dynamic* response of an amp from its sustained level. Higher wattage amps have more headroom, as you correctly noted. That allows the initial pick attack to be noticeably louder and brighter. But once you're holding a sustained note, or letting a chord ring for a bit, and the strings have simmered down from the peak, wattage differences will start to matter less than things like speaker properties, gain saturation and amp settings, and the guitar's sustain properties. Wattage won't be *negligible* but it will be easier for a lower wattage amp to compete, providing the speakers, etc., allow it to. Finally, you focus on *guitar* amplifiers. There is absolutely nothing wrong in that. But it needs mentioning that power requirements for bass are generally higher than that for guitar, simply because bass strings push more signal out of the pickups, requiring greater headroom from the amp if you don't want it to grunt too much. The same is also true of pedal-steel, where having all those strings results in a hotter output. One tends not to see all that many 1x10" 20W bass or pedal-steel amps, unless they are intended for home practice.
Do you happen to know of any resources that deal with how different speaker arrangements, sizes, and impedance affect perceived loudness (amp wattage and the total load of the cabinet staying constant)?
@@lkbasgiohbasg Not off hand. But most speaker brands will provide information about the efficiency of different models, in the form of sound pressure level at 1 meter with 1 watt of power, generally at 1khz. This is often described as "Sensitivity". Note that since sound is pushing air molecules, those molecules will lose energy with distance. So the SPL at 1 meter will be greater than SPL 10-ft away. As well, not all speakers project/disperse in a uniform way, such that SPL "on-axis" may be noticeably greater than SPL at a 60-degree angle off the mid-point, and so on. That said, at the very least, within brands, one can gauge the *relative* efficiency of speakers since they will likely be measured in the exact same way with the exact same mic and power amp, with engineers simply taking one speaker out of the setup and sticking another one in. For the typical 10"-12" guitar speaker, you can expect sensitivity ratings anywhere from 90 to 104db, which is a pretty big loudness difference. Impedance shouldn't make much difference, since it should be appropriate to the amp's output transformer. However, where the amp's output is divided up between multiple speakers that provide a suitable load, the speakers are dividing up the power between them. Think of speakers like fuses. If so many amperes of current are fed through a single speaker, the voice coil may simply burn up from the heat generated. If that same current is divided up between multiple voice coils, each coil may get a little warm, but not burn up because the current is distributed. So a pair of 16-ohm 50W speakers in parallel will be able to tolerate more wattage than a single 8-ohm 50W speaker, because of that division of current. Will the dual-speaker arrangement be louder? Maybe, maybe not. Certainly the bigger cab needed for two speakers vs one will add a bit more bottom and oomph, but that too will depend on cab design, whether it is open back or closed, any porting, speaker mounting, baffle properties, etc. Maybe not as full or authoritative an answer as you might have hoped for, but I hope this is useful. The american radio history website has scanned copies of a multitude of resources for deeper study. You can find some useful tools for understanding more about speakers here: www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Bookshelf/Bookshelf_Bernards_Babani.htm
@@markhammer643 Maybe not? Definitely seems about as fully fledged as a response can be in the comment section of a video. I'm surprised you didn't hit a character limit. Bravo good sir! Saved me the time and effort indeed.
@@markhammer643 thanks for the great info Mark. That really filled a couple of gaps in my never ending quest for more knowledge about the complicated world that is Guitar......
@@dcs2402 My pleasure. Us old farts may not be able to shred as fast as we used to, but we learned a thing or two along the way. Thanks to Brian for asking the sorts of questions that drag this out of me, and for dedicating himself to this series of videos. It's clear people find them useful.
So my wife and I went "deep end" and bought a fat Mesa head from a "friend" on Facebook. 150 watts of Marshall-ized Tri-Rec known as the Stiletto Trident (Stage II!) Truthfully, it was like piloting the Space Shuttle to turn it on, wondering why I had no signal THIS time. And the volumes had SUCH a fine line between loud and quiet. It was meant to be blasted. Now I have 20w worth of EL84 over a cab that will handle 200. In my apartment, I still can't dime the master, but at least it's engineered to operate at lower volumes TOO. But that's an extreme example, and I still found this video quite educational.
O hey, Brian here talking about amps and the casual name drop to Syn haha! I love it dude! Especially since I see you more of a country guy with Brad and Brent. I think someone talked about it but 3db louder is double the pressure. But that gets into the whole bunny trail of pressure vs perceived loudness which is for another time. Anyway, love the videos as always! Anxiously awaiting the terraform!
For live work I often used an old stereo tape deck with a single 7591 per side. So about 5 watts cleanish at most per side and two 2-12s or a 4-12 and a 2-12. Plenty loud for a 100patron bar. An Ibanez multiFX with Compressor, Tube Screamer,Stereo chorus KILLER. IT MIC'd up well to.
Synyster Gates let you borrow his guitar....that's pretty badass. "He's a good friend of mine." Casual, no big deal. Wish you'd played his guitar more. It sounded great!
Played an evh 50w head the other day and even with the volume and gain set to literally zero, it was still loud. Moving either one to .05 made it loud as fuck, would hear it outside the house. Not sure how useable 40-50w tube amps are for anything other than live shows imo
The main thing is that most times you aren’t pushing maximum wattage out of the amp anyway. That’s what volume controls are for. I can adjust my mesa mark v on 90 watts and adjust the volume so it’s quite quiet, or I can vibrate the windows in my neighbors house over a hundred yards away.
Hi Brian and Community. I recently watched a TH-cam video where it was implied that a 100 watt amp at volume “4 power” would be proper power handling for a cabinet with four 75 watt speakers. Or, said another way, that a 100 watt amp at volume 4 produces 300 watts. Understanding that gain and effects pedals can impact the load output, I’m hoping to learn and understand this arithmetic; because, presumably, I can do the same math to make sure I don’t blow anything up if I purchase a new wattage amp and replace its speaker(s), or if I replace the speaker on what I already have. How does the volume knob boost wattage? How much wattage is too much wattage (or not enough) wattage to get the best sound in a bedroom? I’ve been rediscovering my electric guitar, but doing it in a small apartment with 2 kids. I have dusted off my Gibson SG Standard with humbucker pickups, and a 20-year-old Crate V Series 5112 VFX 50 watt tube amp. Most of the time nowadays I practice with a Torpedo Captor X (8 ohm) through headphones and the virtual cabinets… which is AWESOME and allows me to “hear” other amps and speakers. But using the Captor X attenuator on this amp still doesn’t cut volume enough. I’m either looking to change out its stock speaker (a Celestion Seventy 80), or to replace with a new lower wattage combo amp or head/cabinet. I’m in the market because I’d like to have the occasional ability to hear my amp and speakers either attenuated with the Captor X, or even unattenuated. I know this may not be realistic. But open to feedback. Thanks.
The way that I think about dB is that it is like percentages. That is why dB is used to measure gain, sound as well as RF power levels. It just tells you how much bigger or smaller something is compared to some reference. Great video too. Nice to see the Lonestar too.
My last high wattage amp was a 100W Sovtek head that I ran through a 412 cab back in the 90's...it was LOUD. These days I have a Dr. Z Maz 18Jr 112 combo and a Fender Princeton - awesome tones, they sound great when used together and they're plenty loud. Plus...much easier to haul to a gig!
I purchased a 2 watt Hayden Petite Blonde thinking that it would be quieter than my Marshall JTM30 for playing at my flat at home. Maybe a touch quieter but you wouldn't notice if it was.
It doesn’t matter what the wattage is. I set my volume knob of where I need it to be. Playing with a loud band (loud drummer), I lose headroom with a Fender Deluxe Reverb. So 22 watts with that speaker isn’t enough. I normally play a 60 watt El34 amp and have plenty of juice yet to tap if I need it.
I like to use the Two Notes Torpedo Captor 8 to provide a line out for an amp that has no fax loop to send out to fx then return to a stereo pair of amps. You can run wet/dry/wet easily that way or send the speaker simulator to a mixer and send the stereo fx to a mixer and get your wet/dry/wet silently blending the dry source
Hey man. Quick question. Would a small 8 inch pa speaker with 350W be loud enough to jam with a drummer? I could plug my processor into the speaker through a di box. It would be great to hear your opinion.
I use a 100w head Peavey Valve King 2 on clean channel, you should hear it with the Dracarys! - +positives - more headroom than I know what to do with . - negatives - don't ever really get passed 2 on the volume and you have to balance alot of volumes on your pedalboard to ensure consistency... but overall I love a big w amp to give the flexibility and clarity when needed.
Loudness is a loose term... I read somewhere that the perception of "twice as loud" is more around 10dB. Which would make the 100 Watt amp 20 % louder than the 50 watt and a 100 watt only 2.5x louder than a 5 watt.
Hi Brian, thank you for all your videos. I follow them regularly and have learned a lot. I would like to make a suggestion about this video; you should change its title to "Are low wattage guitar amps LOWDER than high watt amps?" Although the video is great, I was expecting your feedback on the "sound quality" as a comparison value instead of loudness. Hope you can do someday the real comparison "Are low wattage guitar amps BETTER than high watt amps?" leaving out the loudness. Thanks a lot for your work; keep on keeping on Brian!
My amps are all between 15 and 40 watts and I’ve never needed anything more. I actually use the 15 watt amps for gigs where I want to sound HUGE and crunchy and the 40 watt amps are for quieter, cleaner gigs.
Haha!!! I have a JMP #2204 50 watter that just kills!!! Couldn’t imagine diming it at home… ITS LOUD! But, that great master volume does help tame some of the LOUDNESS without sacrificing too much tone. I do however have a really “magical” 2204. Everyone who plays it wants it. It just has something I’ve never heard in any other one that I’ve played… 🔥🔥🔥 Enjoy! ✌🏼
The reason I love my marshall DSL100HR is cause that 100watts is great for cleans especially since I use hogh gain pups but still love glassy pristine cleans. Like you said roll back the amps preamp gaon or volume, or the guitars volume and you've got pristine cleans. I just set the preamp to have way less gain and but less volume and boost the master and I've got great cleans. Then if I want lots of gain I can get it from the jcm800 style crunch channel or the od1/od2 hot rodded jcm800 style channels. Not to mention dropping it to 50watts gets you less headroom/quicker breakup. The dsl100hr really can work with any pickup type an any output type. With it I don't ever have to pick one or the other. Best all around amp ever.
I have a Marshall Origin 20 at the moment. At volumes required to be heard over the drums, etc, I find it breaks up. I'm after an amp that's loud enough for gigging and stays clean. I'm going to be playing gigs without the amp being mic'd up. Would you suggest the Peavey Classic 30 fits the bill? And does it take pedals well?
I would've laughed at your comment that you can make a lower wattage amp that is louder than some higher wattage amps. Then I got my Vox AC30. I have NEVER had a problem with it not being loud enough. Usually I have to put it on the 15 watt setting or it's too loud. It's definitely louder than my 60 watt Crate acoustic guitar amp. And that is with greenbacks which are supposedly less "efficient" than alnico blues.
As said, doubling power is not doubling volume. But doubling speakers does about the same thing as doubling power, theoretically. Which if you think about it, a 20 watt amp with two speakers has theoretically the same volume as a 40 watt amp with one speaker of the same design. And still the 20 watt amp might sound bigger, bolder, and more open, because two speakers will do that. In that case I might just choose the low wattage amp even though it is just as loud (theoretically).
I'm not sure exactly what conclusion I drew from this video. I know from personal experience that I gave up my beloved AC15 after moving back in with my parents because I had to crank it so much (in my tiny bedroom) to get good tone that my ears would be ringing for days after tracking a song. But I also know that the AC4 I replaced it with sounds nothing like it. The models shouldn't share the same prefix as far I'm considered. Not to say its an objectively bad amp, but it isn't a "quieter AC", which I guess is the point of the video, and a point that I concur with.
Most small single-ended amps such as the AC4 suck because the output transformer needs to be relatively large, like as large as the AC15's, and it is not.
Glenn Fricker can attest to lower wattage amps being louder than higher wattage amps. His Traynor YBA-1, at 40 watts, is the loudest amp he's got, and this dude has owned a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier, a Peavey 5150, a Framus Cobra, and a Revv Generator 120, all of which are in the 100-120 watt range.
So my blackstar has two dirty channels and it's kinda like your Mesa 50/100 setting. When I change feom channel 1 to channel 2 with both set at the same volume settings channel 2 is a lot louder.
Another thing to take into account is that part of the sound of a half stack, for example, is the sound traveling through the wood of the cabinet. There are so many little factors that make up the big picture. If you get close enough with a smaller amp, good on you. But at the end of the day, if you want your grandmothers legendary pound cake, just how she used to make it, you have to follow the recipe and use the same ingredients and the right amount of each. Same with gear, if you're going after a particular sound. But never forget, there are three rules to music: 1) does it sound good? 2) does it sound good? and 3) does it sound good?
Another channel gave a quick explanation explanation. Phionic audio said the wattage rating of an p is the maximum wattage before distortion is introduced. Not audible distortion but measurable. He was referring to tube vs solid state watts i prefer bigger amps kinda like i like a 12 instead of an 8
I like to hav plenty headroom as well n for what i do a dsl 40 with a volume pedal n the fx loop sometimes is more than enuff . And of coarse pedals with the W circuit . Gotta lov em .
Question about switching between power modes. I read somewhere that you're supposed to power off the amp before doing that. I worried that I had been damaging my Origin 20 after reading that, but then I saw you switching on the MB. What's the deal? is it no big deal? I'd be interested in you explaining the technicalities of it.
Did you mic the amp for the video or was it the Two Notes? If it was the Two Notes what cab and mic settings did you use, sounds very nice and full. If you used a mic what mic did you use? Thanks. Great Video.
Oh my sweet spot is with a 50 watt, i think i get enough headroom when i need it and its nice full and brutal. That being said the evh 5150 III LBX 15 watt is almost as loud as the 50 watt and has quite a lot of headroom, i don't know how they did it.
I have an Orange Micro Dark. 20 watts. At about 2.5 volume, it's ear ripping through the 1x8 or a 1x12. I Want to try a 2x12 and a 4x12. It's supposed to push those pretty well, too. Anyone had experience with that?
I've actually used speaker efficiency (or deficiency?) to quiet down an AC-15 when I had one, and it was quite by accident lol. My band always mics our amps live, and with the size rooms we were playing, getting it to that sweet "on the verge of breakup" spot was just way too loud. I bought it used and it had an Epiphone speaker in it for some reason that I didn't even notice til I got it home. I bought the cheapest alnico speaker I could find, which was actually an old Heppner speaker that came out of an old Hammond organ. I think I read somewhere the efficiency on those was around 90db, whereas the ephiphone speaker in it was probably around 95db. That decrease in efficiency let me hit that sweet spot quite a bit quieter, not to mention that speaker had a nice breakup to it.
I would love to hear the 40 watt hot rod deluxe tested against some other 100 watt amps to see how loud it is. I actually think it might be louder than some of them.
Black keys played guitarist Dan thru 5 tiny vintage amps back in the day . I enjoy the sound from old Danelectro harmonica amplifier's . Works best if you upgrade the speaker
I had a 10 watt Marshall and gigged with it lol. It was when they started making lower wattage combos in the 80s... Solid state. Sounded god-aweful by itself. But with a band it sounded almost perfect, albeit a bit trebly
I tend to prefer the higher wattage amps if the amp has a good master volume. I also tend to play all amps at the same volume level regardless of being low wattage or high wattage. If there is a master volume and gain/distortion control, I have found that wattage doesn’t matter as much unless you need a lot of headroom for a completely clean sound at high volumes. There can also be a benefit to higher watts depending on amps being compared. Now this depends highly on the circuits being compared, but a lower wattage amp (15-30) may get louder earlier with the volume control in the 8 o clock to noon range in comparison to a 50-100 watt amp, except the higher wattage amp may get louder over all. In that regard the higher wattage amp with a good master volume can actually be better for lower volume playing.
Excellent Video. Very informative but would have loved to have seen a larger array of amps being tested. By the way bought a Velvet Fuzz for my pedalboard and its absolutely incredible as it sounds like a fuzz face going into a Marshall!
The headroom concept is really the main factor for me. I can't get a dual rectifier to sound right until it's pushing some serious SPL, but I can get some wonderful overdriven tones out of a 5E3 or my ceriatone son of yeti at much more manageable volumes. So there might not be much difference in volume when both types of amps are wide open, but that sweet spot with the gain will happen at wildly different dB levels. Just my 2 cents.
Id say my preference is low watt amps and mic them. I can always get louder that way but much cheaper. 2 or 3 smaller amps and a smaller at home pa is cheaper than a massive full stack with essentially only one tone. It allows you to buy new amps cheap all the time. 20 watt and below are the best for me. If im gigging id say 50watt and micd up bc im not going to giant venues
Great video Brian! IMHO, I like low wattage amps better, as you can dime them easily to get that great power tube distortion. And if you want to take your low wattage amp to gig with, you can always mic it to get your sound, without blowing the rest of the band (and listeners) away and keeping “your” sound… Best! ✌🏼
Hmmm, will the torpedo captor's 20db reduction really make those amps quiet enough for home use, cranking the amp till the edge of breakup? Will the captor be affected by the 50/100 watt switching, or will the Captor affect the tone and how so?
Hi. I have a Blackstar One Watt Amp and I love it, but I'm a bedroom guitarist and it can get really loud at least loud enough for me. I have heard that I can patch that amp into a more powerful speaker cabinet and it should sound incredible. Can you tell me anything about this? Why a 1 watt amp sounds so powerful, etc? Thanks, Brian I love your pedals.
The bottom line, imho, is that "bedroom guitar" is really a different instrument vs driving an amp+speakers above ~ 95 dB@1m. Mitigating the amplification/feedback phenomena at lower volume is a bit like plugging into a mixer directly without a good DI in between - flacid and sedate. [I guess that it is due in part that the resistance to line level is not matched by the guitar signal?]
They just serve different purposes. I had a HW AC4 and a bassman next to each other at the studio the other day and even though I could push the bassman to a point that it ate up the ac4, for a lot of the volume spectrum the AC4 was just as loud. Now the bassman had so much more headroom/body and that boom that you physically feel whereas the ac4 didn’t have any of that but in terms of cut/midrange/dB peak, it could hang and was awesome for solo tones. Same with my Dr. Z Remedy, the 20 and 40 watt modes aren’t really all that different in volume but the 40 watt mode has a lot more body
I have a Blackstar HT Stage 60 that I run through a 4x12 Vintage 30's cab ans its crazy loud, my son has a Hughes and Kettner Tubemeister 18 that he also runs through a Vintage 30 4x12 and that actually gets full band un mic'd loud but my Blackstar might drown it it if i cranked it side by side.
All little amps and simulators seem to strive to sound like the big boy's and most fail. There's nothing like the SPL and awesome presence of 8 12" speakers pumping out 100 tube watts, it's the gold standard of amplification. The two big problems with big boy amps is that there's almost no place to crank them up anymore and they weigh a ton! Since the advent of master volumes, you can make them blast in your bedroom without disturbing the neighbors but there's no way of getting around their massive bulk and weight without roadies.
Bang on. I have a Mesa boogie 5:50. play it on 25 watts on 11 I can't hear anything on a drum kit right next to me. I also have a Boss Katana 100 2x12. on full at 100 watts in the same practice space I just make out the drums quite nicely.
Interesting topic... what I would also be interested in, apart from actual db loudness in the room, is the perception of loudness in a recording/song when played back. Some small amps can sound big if set up properly while large amps do not necessarily translate so well. Is it something you've encountered and thought about before? What would be the science behind it? Not sure if it makes sense at all hehe
There are a ton of know-it-all bedroom guitarists here that think they have the answer. Why even mention dBSPL levels if that is not the only determining factor in the "perceived" loudness?
I'm using a 5 watt Marshall amp, suits me fine for home practice and small to medium gigs, keep in mind I mostly play hard rock and classic rock so always distortion ;) turn it up to about 3/4 volume for a gig.
Do you remember those first run 5 watt Marshall combos a few years ago? Those were crazy loud. The second run had a 1w switch for "quieter" jamming...lol
Which do you prefer - Low watt amps, high watt amps?
Wampler Pedals my favorite amp is my own Series 1 Lonestar, but lately I’ve been experimenting with the Drive and Tweed modes a little. It gets aggressive in a hurry!
Low watts for me I use a few amps my main amp is a Fender deluxe reverb 22watts a Marshall DSL 5watt a Roland Blue cube Artist 0.5 to 80 watts Fender blues Junior 15watts and Yamaha THR 10C for the living room :-) please keep the videos coming really enjoy thank you Brian
Low they break up nicer besides we have iso cabs and front of house monitoring
Low wattage in the studio, unless I need a ton of clean headroom. High wattage on the stage, unless it's open mic night... I cant decide Brian, please tell me the correct answer.
I like higher wattage, but not for volume reasons. The bigger transformers keep the bottom end more "solid" sounding to me. Not more low end, per se, but more solid low end.
I prefer lower wattage amps for 2 reasons. 1. You can get “natural” amp distortion at lower volumes. 2. My back doesn’t break trying to carry, and load the sucker for gigs. I’ve never played a gig with my Fender deluxe 212 that I could get the volume above “2”. So I have to rely on pedals. My Pro junior I can get up to some natural break-up volumes (with humbucker pups).
I love the way Brian describes difficult to understand subjects in an understandable way.
Technically 3 dB louder IS double the pressure. It’s logarithmic. It doesn’t mean we perceive 2x as loud but based on physics +3 dB SPL IS twice as much sound pressure.
That's a good way to put it, my point in the video is that it doesn't sound like twice as loud, which is the measure that most guitarists are going to use.
Nope, +6 dB is twice as much sound pressure, +3 dB is twice the acoustic power (intensity/wattage), +10 dB is twice the psychoacoustic loudness.
You can easily calculate the psychoacoustic loudness: log10(dB * 10), so +3 dB is log10(3 *10) is about 1.477 times as loud for the human ear.
JerehmiaBoaz Exactly!!!
Another way to put it is; if you add a second violinist to play the same sheet you get +6dB.
No. It takes a 10db increase to double the SPL. You need 200w to get twice as loud as 20w.
Were all talking about wattage here, but is no one gonna bring up Brian is friends with Synyster Gates and was borrowing one of his personal signatures???
I'm glad I'm not the only one that caught that!
Love me some Avenged Sevenfold!
I was kind of thinking does Synyster Gates realize he gets to hang out with Brian?
Syntster Gates makes metal safe for teenage girls and soccer moms.
@@allfornaught0 not the biggest fan, but they actually are a pretty cool band once you get to learn about them, but they are pretty cringey at times lol
Everything sounded the same through my 5mm iphone speaker. :-/
Yeah, that will happen
Same here.
I can attest to little perceived differences with respect to wattage.
I had a mesa Lonestar, but mine had 5w, 15w, 30w....or something like that. I can't remember exactly.
I could not tell the difference though between any of the 3 wattages.
Granted, I never used the clean ch.
The higher wattage probably did have more headroom on clean ch......if I'm understanding whats been said lol
In would like to say you are really providing great service to guitar community to de-mytholize and correct misunderstandings, provide clarity, and demolishing old canards by bringing experience, demonstration, knowledge and the resources unique to YOU, for the benefit of us. Great topic and video here. Thank you.
I've been really impressed with the newer 15 watt tube offerings from both Vox and Fender. They sound fantastic!
Decibel increase is exponential,
For example, every increase of 10 dB on the decibel scale is equal to a 10-fold increase in sound pressure level (SPL). Near silence is expressed as 0 dB but a sound measured at 10 dB is actually 10 times louder. If a sound is 20 dB, that's 100 times louder than near silence.
Thanks for getting straight into the explanation without filler. So many guitar videos with unnecessary discussion
Love your channel almost as much as I love your pedals! My wife loved the post with you and your wife talking shop😉
Done a lot of experimenting with low wattage and high wattage and I’ve basically determined that high wattage amps almost always are better for me. They tend to just sound a lot fuller. Also, anytime I go to local shows, it’s the guys who crank up that have the best sound. One of my favorite local blues rock players plays a 100 watt fender showman on 10 with a plexi glass in front and it still sounds perfectly balanced with the band and vocals. But the guitar is so dynamic and alive compared to guys I see playing little fender combos
Yea I agree, I always try to use the highest I can get away with, but in the sweet spot. That means 20-50 watt most of the time. I do use the 100 watt amps sometimes for outside or something but If it's mic'ed I don't really care, I use whatever I'm feeling at the time. I don't know it's just what I do, not right or bad one way or another, it's just what works for me and what I do I guess
It all comes down to how much headroom you want. Single-ended low-watt amps can drive a 4x12 and get you plenty of volume, but you will have no "clean" tone to speak of.
True I could jam with a mate with a Black keys blues type tone... But clean James Brown.. No way in hell.
As Brian says - have a listen and pick what you like.
I would generally add that more output tubes are probably better sounding than larger output tubes for a given db level.
They are fatter and fill a space more due to the slight differences in each tube.
e.g. 4x 6v6's vs 2x 6l6gc ditto or el84 vs el34.
I might also depend on whether you want transformer and/or speaker distortion or not and whether you want clean sounds or not.
Think of a watt as a measure of consumption. not "output".
things that can effect output:
1) A poor performing speaker will output less as it consumes some of the energy (3db difference in a speaker can be huge).
2) Biasing can drastically change consumption (you can bias a 6l6gc from 12w to above 30w )
3) Given most larger amps are class AB, the output stage has a component of fixed "amplification" and is consuming watts whether it is outputting loud sound or not. output volume is dependent on input signal.
4) Typically amp designers bias pre-amps lower if more bass frequencies are to be allowed through.
Bass requires more power to hear the sound, making the amp sound quieter overall.
Usually smaller wattage amps dont do bass well as they dont have enough watts to play with.
5) Many amps are rated on the tubes/biasing used, not on the actual watts output measured at the speaker.
A 6550 can run solidly at 4x it's rated output due to cycle usage. Many 15w amps run 18w or 20w.
Many 30w amps run 40w (slight differences in reality but not for marketing).
It's all fun and games.
Keep up the great work Mr Wampler
I like fairly high powered amps with attenuation. My home setup is Twin Reverb and Tremolux (35w) into 2x12. It's the sweetest clean-ish tone I can think of. Never get tired of it.
I like how you presented this Brian. You presented the material in a way that anyone can apprehend the information. That the gain staging can make a huge difference was something new to me and explains why my Rivera Era Fender Super Champ is the loudest 18 watts I’ve ever encountered. Again, thank you.
I had a 50W EVH III head and that sucker was loud! I think it had 7 AX& pre-amp tubes in it. Good video :-)
This common misunderstanding originates from all the music stores. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been told anything over 20 watts is overkill for home use. If fact I’m sure that many overs have been told this to the point were amp makers are now making 20 watt versions of their amps due to market demand. This video changes my perspective of amps now. Thank you for sharing with us.
Thanks for your videos Brian, always entertaining and informative. I think a lot of the time when people talk about 'loud' amps they actually mean sensitive amps: ones that are difficult to control. I had an 18w 1974x amp that was very difficult to play at low levels because it was so sensitive due I think mainly to no negative feedback like a Vox. This effect can also come from badly designed master volumes that give you everything in the first tiny portion of their sweep. I now use Power Scaled amps which give as much power amp headroom or lack of it that you want at any volume within their maximum power capability. They solve every problem I ever had with valve amps!
I'm used to 50 watts but I've got a 20 watt silver jubilee and a mark v35 both are loud enough for me. I think there's a sweet spot that you can't put a wattage label on, and that spot is the point where the is compressed enough to push some air and give sustain. Pre amp and speaker/cab will give the flavoring. I'm happy in the lower wattage range. I feel like 100 is overkill for my needs but the attenuator is a wonderful solution even to a lower wattage amp that gets loud
There is no "better". Only what makes you happy. For some that's a full stack. For others that's a VST. I love em all, but prefer low volume.
Heph333 I would say what makes an amp better wattage wise depends on what you need it for.
My 3rd amp is a Yanaha thr3 10w.
Pre "surround sound" update.
Its killer for "middle of the night when everyone is asleep" jamming.
I set up a stereo rig two years ago - to Oranges OR15, each with PPC112. Never been happier with tone and mobility. I still have my Rockerverb 50 and PPC212, though!
Good subject matter. If you look at guitar history. The way guitarists run their rig makes a difference as well. I’ve run twin reverbs cranked, but my guitar volume was barely cracked. So the amp was still cooking, but it was clean and reasonable volume. Also, the amount and type of distortion can change a listeners perception of volume. There are loads of factors to take into account when talking about perceived volume.
The received wisdom from the audio/sound-reproduction side of the world is that, with the same input signal and speakers, one requires 10x the wattage to result in double the sound-pressure level. So, 100W = twice the loudness of 10W. In theoretical terms, that holds true. In amplifier terms, however, not quite so much, simply because wattage tends to be associated with a bunch of other things about amplifiers that will also facilitate higher SPLs, like speaker size, speaker efficiency, cab size, etc. So, a higher wattage amp will have larger speakers, and generally more of them (not very many 4 x 10 dual 6V6 amps out there). And more and larger speakers will necessitate a larger cab volume, which will provide more oomph per watt. I'm fortunate enough to own a pair of '59 tweeds - a 6W Princeton and a Bassman - and though I long-ago replaced the stock 8" Jensen in the Princeton with a more efficient JBL, there isn't much getting around the fact that the Princeton cab is a mere fraction of the Bassman, and not simply "half as loud".
Let us also distinguish the *dynamic* response of an amp from its sustained level. Higher wattage amps have more headroom, as you correctly noted. That allows the initial pick attack to be noticeably louder and brighter. But once you're holding a sustained note, or letting a chord ring for a bit, and the strings have simmered down from the peak, wattage differences will start to matter less than things like speaker properties, gain saturation and amp settings, and the guitar's sustain properties. Wattage won't be *negligible* but it will be easier for a lower wattage amp to compete, providing the speakers, etc., allow it to.
Finally, you focus on *guitar* amplifiers. There is absolutely nothing wrong in that. But it needs mentioning that power requirements for bass are generally higher than that for guitar, simply because bass strings push more signal out of the pickups, requiring greater headroom from the amp if you don't want it to grunt too much. The same is also true of pedal-steel, where having all those strings results in a hotter output. One tends not to see all that many 1x10" 20W bass or pedal-steel amps, unless they are intended for home practice.
Do you happen to know of any resources that deal with how different speaker arrangements, sizes, and impedance affect perceived loudness (amp wattage and the total load of the cabinet staying constant)?
@@lkbasgiohbasg Not off hand. But most speaker brands will provide information about the efficiency of different models, in the form of sound pressure level at 1 meter with 1 watt of power, generally at 1khz. This is often described as "Sensitivity". Note that since sound is pushing air molecules, those molecules will lose energy with distance. So the SPL at 1 meter will be greater than SPL 10-ft away. As well, not all speakers project/disperse in a uniform way, such that SPL "on-axis" may be noticeably greater than SPL at a 60-degree angle off the mid-point, and so on.
That said, at the very least, within brands, one can gauge the *relative* efficiency of speakers since they will likely be measured in the exact same way with the exact same mic and power amp, with engineers simply taking one speaker out of the setup and sticking another one in. For the typical 10"-12" guitar speaker, you can expect sensitivity ratings anywhere from 90 to 104db, which is a pretty big loudness difference.
Impedance shouldn't make much difference, since it should be appropriate to the amp's output transformer. However, where the amp's output is divided up between multiple speakers that provide a suitable load, the speakers are dividing up the power between them. Think of speakers like fuses. If so many amperes of current are fed through a single speaker, the voice coil may simply burn up from the heat generated. If that same current is divided up between multiple voice coils, each coil may get a little warm, but not burn up because the current is distributed. So a pair of 16-ohm 50W speakers in parallel will be able to tolerate more wattage than a single 8-ohm 50W speaker, because of that division of current. Will the dual-speaker arrangement be louder? Maybe, maybe not. Certainly the bigger cab needed for two speakers vs one will add a bit more bottom and oomph, but that too will depend on cab design, whether it is open back or closed, any porting, speaker mounting, baffle properties, etc.
Maybe not as full or authoritative an answer as you might have hoped for, but I hope this is useful. The american radio history website has scanned copies of a multitude of resources for deeper study. You can find some useful tools for understanding more about speakers here: www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Bookshelf/Bookshelf_Bernards_Babani.htm
@@markhammer643 Maybe not? Definitely seems about as fully fledged as a response can be in the comment section of a video. I'm surprised you didn't hit a character limit. Bravo good sir! Saved me the time and effort indeed.
@@markhammer643 thanks for the great info Mark. That really filled a couple of gaps in my never ending quest for more knowledge about the complicated world that is Guitar......
@@dcs2402 My pleasure. Us old farts may not be able to shred as fast as we used to, but we learned a thing or two along the way. Thanks to Brian for asking the sorts of questions that drag this out of me, and for dedicating himself to this series of videos. It's clear people find them useful.
I truly enjoy your videos Brian. Great information.
So my wife and I went "deep end" and bought a fat Mesa head from a "friend" on Facebook. 150 watts of Marshall-ized Tri-Rec known as the Stiletto Trident (Stage II!) Truthfully, it was like piloting the Space Shuttle to turn it on, wondering why I had no signal THIS time. And the volumes had SUCH a fine line between loud and quiet. It was meant to be blasted. Now I have 20w worth of EL84 over a cab that will handle 200. In my apartment, I still can't dime the master, but at least it's engineered to operate at lower volumes TOO. But that's an extreme example, and I still found this video quite educational.
Explains why I play my Fender Super Reverb on 8 with a ts9 and a THD attenuator
O hey, Brian here talking about amps and the casual name drop to Syn haha! I love it dude! Especially since I see you more of a country guy with Brad and Brent.
I think someone talked about it but 3db louder is double the pressure. But that gets into the whole bunny trail of pressure vs perceived loudness which is for another time. Anyway, love the videos as always!
Anxiously awaiting the terraform!
Your videos are always inspiring....thank you!!!
I’m for low wattage amps, they are more confortable...
I'm using a PRS MT-15 and that thing will still rock your socks off. Clean to Dirty and the headroom you need. Love this thing.
For live work I often used an old stereo tape deck with a single 7591 per side. So about 5 watts cleanish at most per side and two 2-12s or a 4-12 and a 2-12. Plenty loud for a 100patron bar. An Ibanez multiFX with Compressor, Tube Screamer,Stereo chorus KILLER. IT MIC'd up well to.
Synyster Gates let you borrow his guitar....that's pretty badass. "He's a good friend of mine." Casual, no big deal. Wish you'd played his guitar more. It sounded great!
It’s quite awesome actually! Yeah Syn is a super nice guy.
Thank you for the vid. Why not just have a decibel meter on display?
Yep, shoulda done that. Next time...
because he cant afford one
@@wampler_pedals I have a sound level meter. I live in Michigan. You should invite me down to check out your guitars. Er, sound pressure levels.
I have a similar guitar that a company that used to be in Nashville made. It's name is Les Tele. I like yours too. Sounds great!
I gave a thumbs up/like the moment you used the word 'ditty'. Also recently subscribed. Next i'll need to purchase one of your pedals!
Played an evh 50w head the other day and even with the volume and gain set to literally zero, it was still loud. Moving either one to .05 made it loud as fuck, would hear it outside the house. Not sure how useable 40-50w tube amps are for anything other than live shows imo
The main thing is that most times you aren’t pushing maximum wattage out of the amp anyway. That’s what volume controls are for. I can adjust my mesa mark v on 90 watts and adjust the volume so it’s quite quiet, or I can vibrate the windows in my neighbors house over a hundred yards away.
@wampler Actually every +10db after 20db is a doubling of perceived loudness. So going from 25db to 50db is 4 times as loud not just double.
5:30 What amp at home for quietness.
8:00 Two Notes Captor/ Attenuator.
Hi Brian and Community.
I recently watched a TH-cam video where it was implied that a 100 watt amp at volume “4 power” would be proper power handling for a cabinet with four 75 watt speakers. Or, said another way, that a 100 watt amp at volume 4 produces 300 watts. Understanding that gain and effects pedals can impact the load output, I’m hoping to learn and understand this arithmetic; because, presumably, I can do the same math to make sure I don’t blow anything up if I purchase a new wattage amp and replace its speaker(s), or if I replace the speaker on what I already have.
How does the volume knob boost wattage? How much wattage is too much wattage (or not enough) wattage to get the best sound in a bedroom?
I’ve been rediscovering my electric guitar, but doing it in a small apartment with 2 kids. I have dusted off my Gibson SG Standard with humbucker pickups, and a 20-year-old Crate V Series 5112 VFX 50 watt tube amp. Most of the time nowadays I practice with a Torpedo Captor X (8 ohm) through headphones and the virtual cabinets… which is AWESOME and allows me to “hear” other amps and speakers. But using the Captor X attenuator on this amp still doesn’t cut volume enough.
I’m either looking to change out its stock speaker (a Celestion Seventy 80), or to replace with a new lower wattage combo amp or head/cabinet. I’m in the market because I’d like to have the occasional ability to hear my amp and speakers either attenuated with the Captor X, or even unattenuated.
I know this may not be realistic. But open to feedback. Thanks.
Great job,as usually and thanks for not washing your demos with reverb!
exactly!
The way that I think about dB is that it is like percentages. That is why dB is used to measure gain, sound as well as RF power levels. It just tells you how much bigger or smaller something is compared to some reference. Great video too. Nice to see the Lonestar too.
I'm digging your intros, very 90s MTV vibey.
My last high wattage amp was a 100W Sovtek head that I ran through a 412 cab back in the 90's...it was LOUD. These days I have a Dr. Z Maz 18Jr 112 combo and a Fender Princeton - awesome tones, they sound great when used together and they're plenty loud. Plus...much easier to haul to a gig!
I purchased a 2 watt Hayden Petite Blonde thinking that it would be quieter than my Marshall JTM30 for playing at my flat at home. Maybe a touch quieter but you wouldn't notice if it was.
It doesn’t matter what the wattage is.
I set my volume knob of where I need it to be.
Playing with a loud band (loud drummer), I lose headroom with a Fender Deluxe Reverb. So 22 watts with that speaker isn’t enough.
I normally play a 60 watt El34 amp and have plenty of juice yet to tap if I need it.
I like to use the Two Notes Torpedo Captor 8 to provide a line out for an amp that has no fax loop to send out to fx then return to a stereo pair of amps. You can run wet/dry/wet easily that way or send the speaker simulator to a mixer and send the stereo fx to a mixer and get your wet/dry/wet silently blending the dry source
I would venture that speaker/driver sensitivity is the primary factor in the relative loudness of an amp.
Cool video. Does this also pertain to solid state/modeling amps?
Hey man. Quick question. Would a small 8 inch pa speaker with 350W be loud enough to jam with a drummer? I could plug my processor into the speaker through a di box.
It would be great to hear your opinion.
Brian's Eupohoria Overdrive is still one of the best I have to this date. And I've had a lot.
Great vid! I mainly use a single ended 6 watt amp these days and it's not that far off the volume of my dual rec 100!
It’s my understanding that you need to power the amp down to properly reduce the power. No supposed to just flip the switches willy nilly.
I use a 100w head Peavey Valve King 2 on clean channel, you should hear it with the Dracarys! - +positives - more headroom than I know what to do with . - negatives - don't ever really get passed 2 on the volume and you have to balance alot of volumes on your pedalboard to ensure consistency... but overall I love a big w amp to give the flexibility and clarity when needed.
Loudness is a loose term... I read somewhere that the perception of "twice as loud" is more around 10dB. Which would make the 100 Watt amp 20 % louder than the 50 watt and a 100 watt only 2.5x louder than a 5 watt.
Hi Brian, thank you for all your videos. I follow them regularly and have learned a lot. I would like to make a suggestion about this video; you should change its title to "Are low wattage guitar amps LOWDER than high watt amps?" Although the video is great, I was expecting your feedback on the "sound quality" as a comparison value instead of loudness. Hope you can do someday the real comparison "Are low wattage guitar amps BETTER than high watt amps?" leaving out the loudness. Thanks a lot for your work; keep on keeping on Brian!
My amps are all between 15 and 40 watts and I’ve never needed anything more. I actually use the 15 watt amps for gigs where I want to sound HUGE and crunchy and the 40 watt amps are for quieter, cleaner gigs.
Can you drive the Bravado into distortion, what does it sound like? Clipping character?
I've had this question several times actually, I'll have to make a video on it!
@@wampler_pedals yes please Brian. 😁
I have a mesa dual rec and a JMP 50 lead. both used in a bedroom setting haha. thank god for my two notes torpedo reload!
Haha!!!
I have a JMP #2204 50 watter that just kills!!! Couldn’t imagine diming it at home… ITS LOUD! But, that great master volume does help tame some of the LOUDNESS without sacrificing too much tone.
I do however have a really “magical” 2204. Everyone who plays it wants it. It just has something I’ve never heard in any other one that I’ve played… 🔥🔥🔥
Enjoy! ✌🏼
@@Stashmanfpv nice! Mines a 4 holer, so I need the attenuator or I'd kill my neighbors playing it
The reason I love my marshall DSL100HR is cause that 100watts is great for cleans especially since I use hogh gain pups but still love glassy pristine cleans. Like you said roll back the amps preamp gaon or volume, or the guitars volume and you've got pristine cleans. I just set the preamp to have way less gain and but less volume and boost the master and I've got great cleans. Then if I want lots of gain I can get it from the jcm800 style crunch channel or the od1/od2 hot rodded jcm800 style channels. Not to mention dropping it to 50watts gets you less headroom/quicker breakup. The dsl100hr really can work with any pickup type an any output type. With it I don't ever have to pick one or the other. Best all around amp ever.
I have a 30 watt Peavey classic 30 and it barely breaks up in most gigs, I don't go above 3/12 on the volume. I'd happily go down to 20 or 15.
I have a Marshall Origin 20 at the moment. At volumes required to be heard over the drums, etc, I find it breaks up. I'm after an amp that's loud enough for gigging and stays clean. I'm going to be playing gigs without the amp being mic'd up. Would you suggest the Peavey Classic 30 fits the bill? And does it take pedals well?
I would've laughed at your comment that you can make a lower wattage amp that is louder than some higher wattage amps. Then I got my Vox AC30. I have NEVER had a problem with it not being loud enough. Usually I have to put it on the 15 watt setting or it's too loud. It's definitely louder than my 60 watt Crate acoustic guitar amp. And that is with greenbacks which are supposedly less "efficient" than alnico blues.
As said, doubling power is not doubling volume. But doubling speakers does about the same thing as doubling power, theoretically. Which if you think about it, a 20 watt amp with two speakers has theoretically the same volume as a 40 watt amp with one speaker of the same design. And still the 20 watt amp might sound bigger, bolder, and more open, because two speakers will do that. In that case I might just choose the low wattage amp even though it is just as loud (theoretically).
I'm not sure exactly what conclusion I drew from this video. I know from personal experience that I gave up my beloved AC15 after moving back in with my parents because I had to crank it so much (in my tiny bedroom) to get good tone that my ears would be ringing for days after tracking a song. But I also know that the AC4 I replaced it with sounds nothing like it. The models shouldn't share the same prefix as far I'm considered. Not to say its an objectively bad amp, but it isn't a "quieter AC", which I guess is the point of the video, and a point that I concur with.
Most small single-ended amps such as the AC4 suck because the output transformer needs to be relatively large, like as large as the AC15's, and it is not.
Your videos blow my mind. But I still watch them. Sooner or later it'll sink in, right?
I have a blackstar 40 watt and 2 fender 65 watt tube amps, clean clean! I play ambient so I am all about pedals! Point taken! 😀
Glenn Fricker can attest to lower wattage amps being louder than higher wattage amps. His Traynor YBA-1, at 40 watts, is the loudest amp he's got, and this dude has owned a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier, a Peavey 5150, a Framus Cobra, and a Revv Generator 120, all of which are in the 100-120 watt range.
Aside from headroom, higher watts have bigger bottom. I prefer 30-50 watts in large venues, while 20-30 to small to medium ones.
I like bigger bottom. oh, yeah.
The logarithmic relation between wattage and volume is why Blackstar's current "Venue" series power settings follow 100%/10%.
So my blackstar has two dirty channels and it's kinda like your Mesa 50/100 setting. When I change feom channel 1 to channel 2 with both set at the same volume settings channel 2 is a lot louder.
You’ll probably have to set the master volumes at different levels, that’s common with different gain stages and circuits
Another thing to take into account is that part of the sound of a half stack, for example, is the sound traveling through the wood of the cabinet. There are so many little factors that make up the big picture. If you get close enough with a smaller amp, good on you. But at the end of the day, if you want your grandmothers legendary pound cake, just how she used to make it, you have to follow the recipe and use the same ingredients and the right amount of each. Same with gear, if you're going after a particular sound. But never forget, there are three rules to music: 1) does it sound good? 2) does it sound good? and 3) does it sound good?
Another channel gave a quick explanation explanation. Phionic audio said the wattage rating of an p is the maximum wattage before distortion is introduced. Not audible distortion but measurable. He was referring to tube vs solid state watts i prefer bigger amps kinda like i like a 12 instead of an 8
I like to hav plenty headroom as well n for what i do a dsl 40 with a volume pedal n the fx loop sometimes is more than enuff . And of coarse pedals with the W circuit . Gotta lov em .
Have you tried a Boss Katana as a pedal platform? I'm REALLY digging it and it weighs half what my Bassman and Deville.
He sellin wampler stuff lol
@@imannonymous7707 And yet.....not one Wampler product shown here. Like the Clarksdale instead of the TS-9. He's not even wearing a Wampler t-shirt.
@@imannonymous7707 ^ not even that cab, says 'wampler' huh, duzzit ^....gee selective memory much?
i thought the katana had built in effects?
you ever tried vox ac 15 for pedals?
@@arnyarny77 it does indeed. But I'm using it for bar gigs. Tired of carrying heavy fender tube amps everywhere lol
Question about switching between power modes. I read somewhere that you're supposed to power off the amp before doing that. I worried that I had been damaging my Origin 20 after reading that, but then I saw you switching on the MB.
What's the deal? is it no big deal? I'd be interested in you explaining the technicalities of it.
I always put my 6505mh to standby for a wattage change but idk if you need to or not...
It is twice as load. The decibel scale is not linear, it's exponential.
Did you mic the amp for the video or was it the Two Notes? If it was the Two Notes what cab and mic settings did you use, sounds very nice and full. If you used a mic what mic did you use? Thanks. Great Video.
Oh my sweet spot is with a 50 watt, i think i get enough headroom when i need it and its nice full and brutal. That being said the evh 5150 III LBX 15 watt is almost as loud as the 50 watt and has quite a lot of headroom, i don't know how they did it.
Thanks! I went from the amp to a two notes captor, into DAW using celestion impulse responses
I have an Orange Micro Dark. 20 watts. At about 2.5 volume, it's ear ripping through the 1x8 or a 1x12. I Want to try a 2x12 and a 4x12. It's supposed to push those pretty well, too. Anyone had experience with that?
I've actually used speaker efficiency (or deficiency?) to quiet down an AC-15 when I had one, and it was quite by accident lol. My band always mics our amps live, and with the size rooms we were playing, getting it to that sweet "on the verge of breakup" spot was just way too loud. I bought it used and it had an Epiphone speaker in it for some reason that I didn't even notice til I got it home. I bought the cheapest alnico speaker I could find, which was actually an old Heppner speaker that came out of an old Hammond organ. I think I read somewhere the efficiency on those was around 90db, whereas the ephiphone speaker in it was probably around 95db. That decrease in efficiency let me hit that sweet spot quite a bit quieter, not to mention that speaker had a nice breakup to it.
I would love to hear the 40 watt hot rod deluxe tested against some other 100 watt amps to see how loud it is. I actually think it might be louder than some of them.
Fwiw, one of the most painfully loud amps I ever played through was a Vox AC30.
Black keys played guitarist Dan thru 5 tiny vintage amps back in the day . I enjoy the sound from old Danelectro harmonica amplifier's . Works best if you upgrade the speaker
I had a 10 watt Marshall and gigged with it lol.
It was when they started making lower wattage combos in the 80s... Solid state.
Sounded god-aweful by itself. But with a band it sounded almost perfect, albeit a bit trebly
Volume pedal in FX loop also work great for getting down the volume of distorted amp without loosing quality of the sound.
I tend to prefer the higher wattage amps if the amp has a good master volume. I also tend to play all amps at the same volume level regardless of being low wattage or high wattage. If there is a master volume and gain/distortion control, I have found that wattage doesn’t matter as much unless you need a lot of headroom for a completely clean sound at high volumes. There can also be a benefit to higher watts depending on amps being compared. Now this depends highly on the circuits being compared, but a lower wattage amp (15-30) may get louder earlier with the volume control in the 8 o clock to noon range in comparison to a 50-100 watt amp, except the higher wattage amp may get louder over all. In that regard the higher wattage amp with a good master volume can actually be better for lower volume playing.
Excellent Video. Very informative but would have loved to have seen a larger array of amps being tested. By the way bought a Velvet Fuzz for my pedalboard and its absolutely incredible as it sounds like a fuzz face going into a Marshall!
The headroom concept is really the main factor for me. I can't get a dual rectifier to sound right until it's pushing some serious SPL, but I can get some wonderful overdriven tones out of a 5E3 or my ceriatone son of yeti at much more manageable volumes. So there might not be much difference in volume when both types of amps are wide open, but that sweet spot with the gain will happen at wildly different dB levels. Just my 2 cents.
Id say my preference is low watt amps and mic them. I can always get louder that way but much cheaper. 2 or 3 smaller amps and a smaller at home pa is cheaper than a massive full stack with essentially only one tone. It allows you to buy new amps cheap all the time. 20 watt and below are the best for me. If im gigging id say 50watt and micd up bc im not going to giant venues
Great video Brian!
IMHO, I like low wattage amps better, as you can dime them easily to get that great power tube distortion. And if you want to take your low wattage amp to gig with, you can always mic it to get your sound, without blowing the rest of the band (and listeners) away and keeping “your” sound…
Best! ✌🏼
Hmmm, will the torpedo captor's 20db reduction really make those amps quiet enough for home use, cranking the amp till the edge of breakup? Will the captor be affected by the 50/100 watt switching, or will the Captor affect the tone and how so?
Hi. I have a Blackstar One Watt Amp and I love it, but I'm a bedroom guitarist and it can get really loud at least loud enough for me. I have heard that I can patch that amp into a more powerful speaker cabinet and it should sound incredible.
Can you tell me anything about this? Why a 1 watt amp sounds so powerful, etc?
Thanks, Brian I love your pedals.
The bottom line, imho, is that "bedroom guitar" is really a different instrument vs driving an amp+speakers above ~ 95 dB@1m.
Mitigating the amplification/feedback phenomena at lower volume is a bit like plugging into a mixer directly without a good DI in between - flacid and sedate. [I guess that it is due in part that the resistance to line level is not matched by the guitar signal?]
They just serve different purposes. I had a HW AC4 and a bassman next to each other at the studio the other day and even though I could push the bassman to a point that it ate up the ac4, for a lot of the volume spectrum the AC4 was just as loud. Now the bassman had so much more headroom/body and that boom that you physically feel whereas the ac4 didn’t have any of that but in terms of cut/midrange/dB peak, it could hang and was awesome for solo tones. Same with my Dr. Z Remedy, the 20 and 40 watt modes aren’t really all that different in volume but the 40 watt mode has a lot more body
I have a Blackstar HT Stage 60 that I run through a 4x12 Vintage 30's cab ans its crazy loud, my son has a Hughes and Kettner Tubemeister 18 that he also runs through a Vintage 30 4x12 and that actually gets full band un mic'd loud but my Blackstar might drown it it if i cranked it side by side.
All little amps and simulators seem to strive to sound like the big boy's and most fail. There's nothing like the SPL and awesome presence of 8 12" speakers pumping out 100 tube watts, it's the gold standard of amplification. The two big problems with big boy amps is that there's almost no place to crank them up anymore and they weigh a ton! Since the advent of master volumes, you can make them blast in your bedroom without disturbing the neighbors but there's no way of getting around their massive bulk and weight without roadies.
Bang on. I have a Mesa boogie 5:50. play it on 25 watts on 11 I can't hear anything on a drum kit right next to me. I also have a Boss Katana 100 2x12. on full at 100 watts in the same practice space I just make out the drums quite nicely.
Interesting topic... what I would also be interested in, apart from actual db loudness in the room, is the perception of loudness in a recording/song when played back. Some small amps can sound big if set up properly while large amps do not necessarily translate so well. Is it something you've encountered and thought about before? What would be the science behind it? Not sure if it makes sense at all hehe
There are a ton of know-it-all bedroom guitarists here that think they have the answer. Why even mention dBSPL levels if that is not the only determining factor in the "perceived" loudness?
As usual, great video!
I'm using a 5 watt Marshall amp, suits me fine for home practice and small to medium gigs, keep in mind I mostly play hard rock and classic rock so always distortion ;) turn it up to about 3/4 volume for a gig.
Do you remember those first run 5 watt Marshall combos a few years ago?
Those were crazy loud.
The second run had a 1w switch for "quieter" jamming...lol