Why Melbourne’s Biggest Street Was Wiped Off the Map
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- One of Melbourne’s biggest and most important streets - Swanston Street - doesn’t appear on maps. Why is this, and why should it change?
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It's a real problem if you rely on Google maps to navigate a city on foot and you're in an unknown city, such as Adelaide or London or Brisbane: you can completely miss an entire part of the city that is really beautiful and designed for people on foot, because it's missing or not prominent/identifiable on the maps as a potential route to take. I guess the Google maps walking (vs cycling vs transport vs cars) option is trying to solve this but it's not yet fully there/evident/useful in my experience yet.
This is true. It’s human nature to go to what’s prominent - and you’ve highlighted this issue perfectly.
This works both ways though. In a car a prominent road would be assumed to be drivable.
Just tried to find the station of Utrecht, the Netherlands. A city I know very well. Couldn’t find it. The whole city center and adjacent station area is a yellow blob. Without the street patron it’s nearly impossible to orientate.
@@jannetteberends8730 By car? By bike and/or foot it should be trivial.
Assuming you're going by car, I think that's by design.
@@nanderv by foot.
As a second year urban planning student I find these kind of videos very interesting and informative. Here in Brisbane we have a similar situation with Queen St Mall, pedestrian only but with a busway running underground so it doesn't appear like the similar sized streets around it on maps.
Glad it was helpful! - Check out ‘Not Just Bikes’ - such a great channel. on urban design.
@@JulianOShea yeah I've watched a few of their videos, I really liked the one about Strodes
@@JulianOShea i’ve been obsessed with their content recently! i could see slices of that in what you touched on here, this makes me very happy
@remmi dude what is this?
@@weirdpringleschip it's a comment bot that wants you to click on the link and take all your information. It's best to report them!
Well I might be a weirdo, but I thought the width of the street would determine how big it was drawn on a map, not its function. I now have to rethink my whole life.
Yeah nah
TO elaborate on what Julian has said. Yeah the width of a street should be drawn similarly wide on the map. But Nah, the width of a street shall not be drawn similarly wide on the map. Oh and Yeah, I'm rethinking my assumptions also.
TL&DR: Yeah, Nah, Yeah
@@gorillaau ha ha yeah I reckon you're right
I just kind of intuitively knew that if streets were more prominent on a google map they indicated greater capacity for cars, that way drivers would avoid the smaller streets that may be laneways or tram/bike/pedestrian only.
Well I used to think that maps were drawn to scale, but what would I know in this day and age?
Map makers need to create a new visual representation for what you might call "pedestrian highways". Just like major vs minor roads, train lines, rivers, etc are all shown with a distinct visual signature, they need to create a new visual way of indicating major pedestrian routes.
Good approach
How about different map styles for different audiences? Given that most people use maps on a device now, it would be nice if the way they're displayed is adapted to your chosen mode of transport: walk, wheelchair, cycle, bus/tram/train, motorbike ('fastest route' is different if you can filter past traffic jams), car, truck, large motor home etc...
Yes, the maps that are most popular are heavily car-centric, when they should give equal (if not more) importance to other modes of transport, such as walking and cycling.
Often times, when infrastructure is good, it allows these modes, which already are naturally more efficient than cars, to transport way more people much more effectively than traditional roads.
@@JayCGypsy Google maps does offer a bicycle navigation option here in the Netherlands.
@@sirBrouwer We do here in Australia as well (and I assume in a lot of other places) but the actual visuals of the map don't change. They're still mainly based on the amount of car traffic.
I think the issue is not so much "cartographers" but these maps are all being machine generated and (barely) curated by large tech companies, most of whom employ people who live in California, where is it absolutely impossible to get around without a car. The engineers there simply cannot conceive of mainly pedestrian thoroughfares being important.
My understanding was that part of the Google Maps stuff is done by the Sydney office so you'd think they'd have at least some knowledge of Melbourne...
apparently, even George Street is invisible, in Sydney itself...
i guess they are just following HQ
@@yukko_parra I was thinking that... I've thrown off why George Street, the main street in Sydney's city, isn't more prominent on the map... this explains why...
Google doesn't even curate maps content themselves. They outsource it to companies like Lionbridge (now a subsidiary of Telus).
Glad to see some attention drawn to this, it's always bugged me. The implicit assumption being that only people with cars look at maps.
On another note, there's a creek running in a culvert along Elizabeth St - I know the idea has been brought up occasionally, of unearthing it where the astroturfed section is, but it seems to have been deemed too ambitious, which is a shame - I think it would be so cool to have a little canal water feature in the City!
Yeah, that river running down Elizabeth Street used to overflow and flood basements and ground floors of many buildings.
Try and plan a trip by rail using GM or Bing; a trip from, say, Edinburgh to Stockholm, perfectly feasible, has GM shitting itself.
@@turbo.panther Parts of Elizabeth St flooded just today and that's withouit any existing water!
@@RithSV Oh that's very interesting! Just been looking at some photos to check it out. Swanston St too - and there was even on of those unwelcome cars in one pic.
Daylighting the creek (drain) down Elizabeth St would require complete removal of one of the city's major tram lines. Not going to happen.
I miss Melbourne so much, I moved away 5 years ago but it still feels like home, like I left a part of my soul there or something. I love watching your fascinating and informative videos, it’s like food for my mind and soul.
I've moved away many times, aiming for a new start. I always end up coming back because nowhere else compares. I wasn't even born in Melbourne but it will always be 'home'.
@@intensecutn I can relate to this, I moved out of Melbourne to Queensland and Western Australia quite a few times but always moved back to Melbourne within two years at the most, except for this last move. I only moved away because I was pregnant and wanted my son grow up surrounded by family. But I miss Melbourne terribly.
@@ES-ku3oe Melbourne is a unique city but our weather is shit. Nobody ever misses that part of it.
@@apseudonym I personally like the mildly cold winters, beautiful spring and autumn weather. The summer can piss right off though.
@@intensecutn the Melbourne summer is way better than Sydneys humid mess
Super interesting watch. I checked out the Google maps image of my hometown of Dubai and found the same thing happening here! There's a pedestrian-only Souq in the old town roughly the same width as all the adjacent car-accessible roads, but it appears as just a thin green line on the map. It's mad considering how the Souq itself sees way more foot traffic than any of the roads right outside it.
Great comment
This kinda reminds me of the transformation a part of George Street in Sydney went through from being jam packed with cars to virtually nothing but light rail running on the street along with pedestrians. Just last year the City of Sydney council announced that the whole street stretching from Town Hall to Railway Square will be closed off to cars and made into a pedestrian/light rail only zone. Really exciting things lined up for Sydney!
Exciting? More like depressing
definitely exciting!
I never really remembered the city streets much... and now everytime I go to the CBD, I'd always remember George Street, and the surrounding places from George St
Community communism redirecting individual wealth and individual thoughts to communal living. Including no ownership of cars houses and businesses. Government will have total control of your wealth including social scores that include cutting off your benifts if you don’t obey. You are just a baby of communism. Indoctrinated little kid that’s been bullied by the education government authoritarian system of new Australia. Nothing but misery is yours future.
@@biggils8894 exactly
Recently got into a TH-cam city planning binge (Not Just Bikes et al) and my favourite Australian TH-camr starts talking about it here at home too!
City planning TH-cam is BestTube
NJB is certainly a valuable resource, and Melbourne seems to be moving in the right direction by those metrics.
Also, imagine if Australia's agriculture could produce as with as much efficiency as the world's 2nd-largest producer: the absolutely massive country with ... over 200 times less agricultural land than Australia? The Netherlands, of course. That would be interesting.
aye same!! how good. what other yters have you been watching ?
City beatiful is a pretty good channel.
@@katiebarnshaw Just to list a few general urban-planning-related channels on this thread: (these are off my memory, so names aren't exact)
NotJustBikes (and anyone who collaborates with him)
Bicycle Dutch
Oh The Urbanity!
City Beautiful
Alan Fisher
Eco Gecko
Hmm, maybe I'll think of some more. There are lots of more localised and specialist channels too.
As a pedestrian (walking is my main mode of transport) I'd love to be able to switch Google Maps into Pedestrian Mode so that it inverts the scaling of the roads. If it's more pedestrian friendly, make it larger or more clearly highlighted. If it has tiny footpaths, make it smaller regardless of how many car lanes it has (so I don't have to keep walking on the street because everyone has their bins out for collection today).
It would be amazing to have some kind of indication of how nice the street is to walk down. A visual indication of shade would be nice in summer too.
A very smart man once said “all maps have to make decisions about what they do and don’t include, depending on what they’re for.”
Given that these maps are all dynamically rendered on a screen, why not have different versions of the maps for driving, cycling, walking etc.? Apple Maps already does this, sort of, except that its “Explore” mode which should really prioritise walking streets still shows them as tiny nearly invisible alleyways. In fact, it doesn’t change the way streets are rendered at all. But it could! And I would say, probably should!
Swanston Street is great, I was in Melbourne for a week at the end of last year and must have walked up and down the whole street more than a dozen times. I now know why it was so hard to find when zooming in on google maps, I often had to look for landmarks around it to find it on the map. Making the street carless is great, I love pedestrian areas!
Swanston St stretches from beside Flinders St station in the south-southwest all the way up to Carlton Gardens beyond Melbourne Uni, in the north/northeast. That's a fair walk! Are you *SURE* you walked all of it, and several times? It takes long enough on a tram thank you, without walking all the way for no good reason!
@@tobys_transport_videos Okay maybe not the *whole* thing, but from Central to Flinders many times
@@anguscos4506 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 LMFAO!!! Melbourne Central to Flinders St is 5 evenly spaced blocks - or 5 minutes by tram! I see more interest in Elizabeth St or Collins St than I do Swanston St, apart from it being the busiest tramway street in the world, which is irrelevant to 99.9% of people.
Never noticed it, but you are right. In my town, Amersfoort, the whole medieval heart of the city is a yellow blob with no streets in it. Checked other cities in my country, the Netherlands, everywhere yellow blobs. Really every city has a car fee center. And other car free spots.
Im glad cities are moving away from being solely designed for car use and are incorporating more public transport and pedestrian areas
Is a good thing
@@JulianOShea No it isn't. You end up having to deal with drug addicts and people looking to cause a nuisance - not to mention that Elizabeth St portion which was filmed, it is full of drug users and loitering hooligans now.
I agree. I like trams especially.
Yes and no , you still need car access , and for a lot of people public transport is not a viable option , if you are either old or disabled or are someone who can’t walk a lot , , or just need to not waste time fucking around on public transport , it’s a nightmare . No one I know wants to go into melb city .
@@lightsoda7445 They my homies :D
I'd really like to see you do a video about the Melbourne Anarchist Club on St George's Road. It's a funny little single-story building stuck between two tall apartment blocks, and it's got a dramatic history as you can imagine.
And also, I love sending your videos to people new to Melbourne, gives them a head start on most Melbournians I think!
The Anarchists have moved on. It’s now a vacant and run down building
Swanston Street and Bourke St Mall are some of my favourite parts of the CBD due to the no cars. So relaxing.
They are lovely
These videos are really well written, informative and entertaining. Kudos for the good work and keep it up.
Thank you very much!
Very interesting this is happening. Being a local and knowing the streets never even looked at the map. I'm happy we're moving towards a car free future. Looking forward to your next video. Keep up the good work.
Take the train or bus and witness what kind of hooligans and degenerates you'll encounter and you'll wish we never become car-free.
Great video! Pedestrian+bike+public transport-only corridors are much more dense and efficient when it comes to traffic than those that need to be shared with private vehicles, and are far more pleasant to be around. They should be prioritized and highlighted as the better parts of our cities!
Thanks for this Julian! Swanston street in 2022 is incredibly improved from the dirty, dingy main north-south thoroughfare of the 1980s, when pedestrians walked as fast as they could from Flinders street to Collins or Bourke. It is a really nice walkway, with heaps of amazing food stores; a bit like a REALLY great food court. (But I do wish they would just stop farting around with the city square… just some grass, some trees and seating areas is all it needs…)
My personal favourite new car free block is Market street between Flinders lane and Collins street. This is a brilliant space that really shows what thoughtful, person (rather than car) centred town planning can achieve. But the best pedestrian street in Melbourne is Degraves street; although there’s no plantings, the old ‘road’ bit between the footpaths is filled with dining tables and chairs, and the sounds of enthusiastic conversations, and some incredibly delicious smelling meals….
Shade trees in Fed Square are DESPERATELY needed and long overdue.
Some grass would also be nice.
How can the capital city of "The Garden State" justify the 'hard surface' design and construction of Fed Square?!
@@trueaussie9230 Jeff Kennett govt built Federation square. Nothing green about Jeff.
@@pluffer241
That's true.
A lot of 'hard surface' to him though.
I'm really fond of your videos, but I did laugh when you said 'as you can see it's really busy' and it was about as quiet as I've ever seen Swanston Street. LOL. Keep up the great work, Julian - nice channel.
Another great video Julian. It reminded me of the time I looked up Google to check how long it would take me to walk from my home in Nth Melb to the Nova Cinema in Carlton. I chose the pedestrian route but couldn't believe how long it was saying it would take. Turns out the map was taking me around the top of Melb Uni instead of through Tin Alley. In this case Google didn't know the pedestrian route was there at all. I wonder how many other Melb walkways "don't exist" 😁
Melbourne Uni in general is pretty unnavigable by Google/Apple maps unfortunately :( Makes it hard to find my way around campus!
Yup - I’ve seen that one before
@@yossifrenkel131 Make use of the campus maps in conjuction with google maps. That’s what I used to do if I ever had to go past Melb Uni to see a friend
The main campus is a circus to navigate if you are not familiar with it.
I just tested this, and the routes go all the way around. Maybe going through campuses is a foreign concept to Americans?
As a cartographer I 100% agree Julian!! The ‘car-centric’ mindset of Melbourne has been difficult enough to shake since the 70’s and online mapping focused on just vehicular traffic is not helping one bit. Great video!
Doing our city proud, especially during a time when it seems to have undergone so many changes as a result of 6 lockdowns. Great video as always dude :-)
Thanks, James!
It depends on what the maps purpose is. If it's a road map for driving, then pedestrian roads shouldn't be shown, if it's a city map for tourism, it should be prominent. Digital maps should have different modes for different purposes.
A great video, you really hit the nail on the head there.
The problem comes down to what the map is used for. Most people use maps while driving, so if you see a road on a map while planning a route, you want to be sure that you can use it.
Map Men did a video about maps being selective about the details they show based on their purpose. You showed the tram map, which shows that the street is a very important part of the network but wouldn’t show roads. A map for cyclists would give greater prominence to cycle lanes over normal roads, wouldn’t show highways or other restricted routes, and would show the location of bike racks and other cycle facilities. A pedestrian map would show every little path and pedestrian crossing but not busy roads.
Apple and Google, being American, probably view the idea that someone would walk any distance in a city (rather than a hiking trail) as a very alien concept.
They need to develop alternative map views for driving, walking, and cycling. They already have alternative route planners but what if you just want to wander about and see what’s nearby.
I used to work on Swanston Street, from 2016-21. This video was not only thoroughly informative but also a good nostalgia hit.
Subscribed ❤
Glad you enjoyed it!
Its such a shame that the Elizabeth St partial closure seems to have been abandoned part way. The test project a few years back was wonderful with seating, buskers ect but the new version just seems to be an uninviting expanse of concrete, especially now the fake grass is gone
I'm so pleased your channel is doing well. You deserve it.
Thank you so much!
My cousin was killed on Swanston Street while cycling down there in 2008, hit by a bus. This was before the re-architect of the street and busses were no longer allows down the street. As to why the street was removed; I suspect it was due to Google maps not getting car traffic down the street. Google maps tracks traffic data by inferring from the movement of Android phones. America's car centric view of transportation would, probably by existential horror, devalue any non car accessible place.
I'm 2 years into living in Melbourne so I can understand the city, and this video genuinely made me smile :)
Wow, somehow the Google Algorithm know exactly what I’m looking for. I love this stuff. Being a Geography Teacher, urban uses, planning and design are right up my alley, excuse the pun, which was intended.
Subscribed in the hope of getting to your back catalogue. Well done on such an informative, well edited and well chosen case studies. Keep up the great content. 👏😊
Thanks Steve!
Mapmakers have been depicting streets based on their car capacity since the days when maps came in paper books with names like UBD and Melway on them.
Back when they just started calling it Swanston Street Walk, I got pinged by a cop for jaywalking across it (between Collins and Flinders). This was well after dark when it was pretty much dead.
The irony was completely lost on the cop who just gave me the “don’t do it again son” lecture with the threat of a fine.
I had a similar experience, I remember when they first proposed the walk, everyone went wild you cannot do that.
Then a cop, (Years Later or now-a-days) screaming at me (and the group of people around me) we should stop at the red walk signal. I was like, been walking from the train station for 5-10 minutes and yet to see a Tram, let alone a bicycle or other vehicle. When I was nearing work at the end of the street, a cop car does an illegal u-turn at the lights, no other vehicles around either, but I had to just laugh at the irony.
We need more vehicle free zones in the CBD imho! (Where I now live)
Cops in Sydney were really strict on jaywalking about 5 or 10 years ago standing on corners waiting to book people because a lot pedestrians in the CBD were getting by cars and actually getting killed. So I can see where that cop is coming from. Having said that I guess people in my Melbourne are pretty familar with avoiding trams though.
@@EatMyShortsAU Nah, there's still a ton of near misses with trams thanks to headphones and phone screens.
When portable music wasn't super affordable, people were far more aware.
I won't throw stones in this glass house as I am guilty of it one time. Lesson learned.
@@ondrejsedlak4935 I agree, I feel like it would be worse now with noise cancelling headphones and smartphones. People will cross while looking at their screen, head hunched over. It's no wonder people get hurt or killed. Would be traumatic for everyone to witness, too.
@@apseudonym 100% agree. I forgot about the noise cancelling headphones.
I spoke to train driver a few months back when I was getting my construction rail ticket, and he said it’s a daily occurrence for tram and train drivers seeing the oblivious, wondering in front of their vehicles.
I’ve seen a few of these geniuses do it myself and one time when the tram driver smashes the warning bell, the pedestrian just looked up and gave the tram the finger. So nice.
I am a runner, and I do a global run called "Run my City". In 2019 I plotted out the Hoddle Grid and ran it on a Easter Friday (when it was quiet) (28km in total). What caught my eye when I was plotting it out was I couldn't find Swanston St, even though it was a major horizontal in my run grid. You have answered the question that has been bothering me ever since.
Solved!
I've never noticed it not on Google Maps until now! I have several items along there saved on Maps - and had a look, but have never noticed it missing. Makes sense - there's still occasionally someone who drives up there and Bourke St (innocently!)
I love to see a local youtuber with a decent amount of subscribers, it really helps grow the Melbourne community, keep it up man!!
Thanks mate
George street Sydney. A newer example. Good video
Good example for sure - thanks, mate!
I subbed when this dude was at 22.8K subs and now he’s at 105K. Keep grinding bro you a real outlier ❤️🙏🏼
Thanks mate! And cheers for being an early adopter.
King St also throws up some interesting oddities in Google Maps - depending on what level of zoom you choose it is either shown as "A60" (completely meaningless for pedestrians/delivery drivers) or even worse as "Princes Hwy"
This continues right through North Melbourne and Flemington on roads like Curzon St and Racecourse Rd that are at best signed as "Alt 1" as an alternative o the CItylink Tunnels and West Gate Bridge - but never called part of Princes Hwy by the community
Melway only uses "Princes Hwy" as a secondary name south of the river (on Kings Way and Queens Way)
Also Princes Hwy v Dandenong Rd
@@Ryzza5 As someone who lives in Dandenong I always call it Princes Highway.
infoguy of Melbourne here. I had this exact problem 10 years ago with finding people friendly maps in Melbourne. Even the official Melbourne City Council tourist map has problems. So I made my own and feel it is a much customer oriented , especially for the nightlife. Also I get frustrated when people use Google Maps pass me saying they are okay but return because they end up at a dead end or rerouting. Anyway Cartographer is a much cooler occupation to say who one is than customer service
So the street hasn't been removed from maps despite this videos claims.
It seems it has just been aligned to improve readability of what kind of access that street allows. I would think his is a desgin issue regarding how to convey information on maps. They most likely aren't trying to depict reality 1:1. It is similar to the way mass transit maps (of which a few are shown in the video) are stylized to make them more readable, but while also trying to maintain accuracy in direction and distances in the city map.
Google maps has a satelite layer for 1:1 depictions.
We have it now with George Street in Sydney. This was Sydney’s main thoroughfare and contains many landmarks along it but given it has now been pedestrianised (+ trams reintroduced) it barely appears now on Google Maps, only a thin, faded line. But I kind of like it - it’s a sign that that the street now serves a much different function to what it used to.
Love the video, never thought of this being an issue, kind of curious how this affects my home town of Canberra as it's very pedestrian and cyclist friendly in the inner city.
Though, Jules, if you feel so strongly about it, you should raise it on the open street maps mailing list. Most other maps (Google and Apple incl) tend to source some of their data from OSM.
Though if ya do, make sure you raise it in the _rendering_ section.
This is because the issue you raise isn't a mappers problem, as the mappers are not meant to "map for the renderer". What we contribute to the database is meant to be what is actually in the real world, not some funky hackery to make xyz render of openstreetmap's data look a particular way.
Source: Me a semi-inactive OSM/OSM-HOT contributor :)
Bonus content :)
I did some digging in the openstreetmaps data (you can view map data by clicking layers then ticking "map data" (note it will be slow, particularly if zoomed out) and the reason it doesn't show up is because there is no car highway (highway=type (such as primary, secondary, tertiary, service, living_street, residential, etc)), only tram lines (such as www.openstreetmap.org/way/218671162#map=16/-37.8135/144.9657 ) and cycle ways (one such cycleway is here -> www.openstreetmap.org/way/316166610#map=18/-37.81397/144.96590 )
Here is an example of it in a different render which is the cycle map, can see that Swanston Street has more precendence than the other major thoroughfairs -> www.openstreetmap.org/way/218671162#map=16/-37.8135/144.9657&layers=C
Looking at those "ways" they are correctly classified for what is there based on what you showed in your video which is what I'd expect as errors in popular/populus areas (or areas with a strong OSM mapping/surveying community) get fixed pretty quickly.
edits:
- Removed repeitition of not mapping for renderer and corrected typo in same paragraph
- Added spaces to fix the URLs picking up the parentheses
Excellent insights - thanks for sharing. Could be worth OSM reflecting on the car-centric defaults. Maybe we need another category: pedestrian highway.
- Ainslie Ave may be the start.
Cars don’t make the thoroughfare, people and their history do.
I like it when famous streets become pedestrian (or limited only), as it acknowledges change. This however does not diminish their popularity or prominence.
@@JulianOShea The specific rendering used on the main OSM website is called Carto and it has a Github repo if someone wants to raise this as an issue: github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto
One thing to keep in mind is that the main OSM site is more of a portal for the mappers rather than the finished product. The data is intended to be used by third parties to create polished maps. However, other users of OSM data - such as Wikimedia Maps and Qwant Maps - also seem to visually de-prioritise Swanston Street, so you raise a really good point in this video.
Grats on 100k mate, stellar content, been subbed since you've had a couple thousand, good to see you grow!
Melbourne is a very walkable city and its great that they're making more predestrain only roads. And with the free trams in the CBD it makes getting around the city so easy... Whilst smaller, I find Adelaide CBD to be a real pain to walk around - though most of the interesting places are on the north side anyway 😂
I like it better when cars were allowed. Swanston street looks like a ghost town most of the time, The energy is lost. I remember what the city was like before they made all the bike paths and blocked all the roads. It was a much more exciting city. I know its not PC to say that but thats how I feel.
@@tubester4567 I'd say you are well and truly in the minority. Countless studies around the world have found that more foot and bicycle traffic are better for business, healthier for people that work in the city and have a much lower cost for local landmarks, buildings and associated infrastructure in the short and long term.
@@karlwalters3763 I dont think thats true. It may be the case in a few specific isolated cases, like in European old cities but I dont think its true in most places. Like in Melbourne, when they just had the Bourke street Mall, that worked, but when they extended it to Swanston Street and Elizabeth street, the city looks like a ghost town with dead energy.
It's only free if you're not poor. They've gone out of their way to bill students.
@@tubester4567 Have you only been there during covid? it's packed until past midnight otherwise.
Pedestrian streets with bike lanes and trams should definitely be more popular in more city centers around the world! I would love to see it here in the USA!
Nice to see a vid of Melbs where the cops aren't bashing people.
These videos are incredible for Melbourne newcomers. Thank you for your work!
Thanks mate!
I like these changes Julian. It avoids confusion with out of town drivers. It places emphasis on vehicle navicable areas because vechiles are still the major reason why tools like google maps exist. And the tools are smart enough to realise the routes are navicable by bikes and on foot. That said, I agree whole-heartedly with other commenters here saying that a new visual representation is needed.
I just had to comment on how brilliantly edited this video is. There’s not a single dull moment, everything is so dynamic and informative. Well done!
Glad you enjoyed it - thanks for the kind words.
Some honest feedback. The video is titled “Why Melbourne’s Biggest Street Was Wiped Off the Map” but you showed how the street is actually present on each map you used to demonstrate. On the Apple map the street name even shows while zoomed out with more than four city blocks visible.
The street has not been wiped off any of these maps. It has only been made less prominent.
Really nice video mate. Love the channel
While it is a bit of a shame that these types of streets almost seem to cease to exist on maps, I kind of understand it - most people use maps like those for driving directions, and it would be pretty confusing if you see this big huge street on the map that looks like all the other streets around it but are unable to drive on it. Would be nice if they could find some way without shrinking them to keep them on the maps while making it clear you can't drive that way though.
I think this is the change - people are using maps for more than driving these days (unlike the Melways era) - everyone pulls up Maps apps when they’re walking around town. But yeah - be sure not to let drivers take a spin down Swanston St (I saw that once - someone driving on the tram stop….)
Maps are for travellers of all kinds, not just those in a car. If I'm at my office in the CBD and someone sends me the name of a place we're meeting for lunch - I look at a map. It's extremely rare for someone to drive via car within the CBD, only in or out. If it was for cars only, the only details it would show are roads and car parks - and not rail, restaurants, entertainment or historical locations.
@@JulianOShea I agree, especially in inner suburban areas where people are on foot. Surely these apps should realise these apps are primarily for those who are not using cars. As far as Swanston street is concerned. This is the number one street. Thank you Julian for teaching me more about Melbourne. Yeh
Good to see another great video from you, Julian! :-)
I have shat down that street.
Nice
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Your videos make a compelling argument to visit Melbourne! It's definitely very high up on my list of places to visit if I ever get to Australia.
Do it!
This exlains why I was so often confused and somewhat lost in Melbourne. Knowing that I was on a busy Swanson street and checking my location on google maps, I often thought that my GPS must have been wrong!
Maybe you can make a video about melbourne’s alleys and back-lane that’s transformed into a urban hidden gem… an arty space, vibrant that used to be forgotten and unsafe urban space
Makes perfect sense to me why it’s ‘not’ marked as a larger road
I was a student of RMIT so I was familiar enough with Swanston street.
I studied there during major transformation of Swanston street back in 2011-2012. I did remember, Swanston street was once like any other street in Melbourne CBD, but then it was converted to pedestrian-only street. I remembered the first section with car restriction is actually right on RMIT and Melbourne Central.
It surprised me that few years after that the whole Swanston street was converted to pedestrian-only street.
It is nothing new in Melbourne, I do believe Swanston street model only copied the one already there in Bourke Street mall.
Thank you again for your legendary videos. Swanston Street is well known to be a street to anyone who grew up around there. Please keep up the videos, I have missed them so much🙂
Nice to see you were using one of Gezzas videos, I am so glad he recorded and kept that footage from '88, both parts of the video are very interesting to watch, I wish Melbourne was still like that (in some way)
This was a great video, Julian! I just left Melbourne to return to the Gold Coast after living in Melbourne for 12 years, and this is already making me homesick for the city. 🙂
crazy ... and its such an important street. Thanks, Julian, great information.
Strange and very interesting! We recently sold our home and bought another and are renting in between. The townhouse we are renting is only three years old that but it’s replaced (along with a dozen other townhouses) a nursing home. The number of our townhouse is the same as the street number of the nursing home so all my mail is being delivered to a nursing home that comes up default on Google. Yes we did request Google to update this the second we moved in and realised! We also couldn’t get an NBN connection because Telstra and Optus couldn’t technically find the address despite there being an NBN box in the garage. So the townhouses either side of us can have Internet but we can’t because the address just cannot be found.
What’s on Google Maps and others really does impact the real world. Thanks for sharing, Lucy!
Thank you Julian for all the research you do into your video production. You can really see the quality in the stories you present and for that, I say thank you again.
Glad you like them!
I live here since 3 years ago and I love your videos dude, you teach a lot of this beautiful city🔥🔥
Nice video. A great way for google maps or any other digital cartographer is to have separate maps to delineate various streets. For example, when viewing google maps in driving view, it doesn't show Bourke street mall but when switched to waling view, then it shows it loud and clear. Same goes for cycling. Cheers.
@Julian O'Shea re topics re Swanston st, perhaps you could find out what actual name of the section between Flinders St to Prince's Bridge is called. Many people in heritage & Melbourne of the past groups/pages say it's St Kilda Rd from Flinders St (which is likely as Arts Centre address is 100 St Kilda Rd); but Google have it as St Kilda Road, then zoom in & changes to St Kilda Rd. At one zoom level it displays both names!
Many maps, & even 1800 ones don't have a name at all on the section of Swanston St/St Kilda Rd between Flinders St & Prince's Bridge.
Yep, this happens with Queen St Mall in Brisbane. It's super wide but looks narrow on Google Maps.
great video giving me a glimpse of the happenings in my home town - thank you - really interesting!
You managed to make Swanston Street look appealing. Apart from the buildings that you highlighted, which are indeed beautiful and noteworthy, the section of Swanston Street between Flinders and Victoria Street is fairly grungy (in the unpleasant sense, not the cool 90’s sense), especially on the south side.
This was a fantastic video, Julian!
Glad you liked it!
Great content Julian, love your stuff. As a local Melburnian it's been great learning more about what our city has to offer!
Thanks, Jess - appreciate it.
Remember Google is an advertising company. As a rail enthusiast, it’s annoying how faint the rail lines are on a map.
Also people in outback Queensland are annoyed that travel times are inaccurate and they are afraid it might affect tourism.
Apparently users can change the weighting or colours on Google maps but the process is complicated.
Remember why Google Maps is free.
Council: "OK, we're going to pedestrianise this street."
Cartographers: "Right, this street no longer exists."
Locals: "Wait, what?"
The huge amounts of light yellow cuddling the street is usually a key that SOMETHING interesting is there and that it's a good place to head to wander around on foot without the car noise and smog, that it might be a pleasant place to sightsee or buy food or fashion or find an art gallery, or people watch. To me it's Bridget Jones, I like it just as it is.
Love your work Julian. Always informative, and interesting. Thank you.
Thank you Julian, another great episode.
Glad you liked it.
As a Melbournian (fitzroyian) I love seeing these videos about my home city. Love your work immensely.
Thanks Brenton!
Wow, haven't been in Melbourne CBD much since our lockdowns here but never realised Elizabeth St has become so green!
Great video, really lovely to see such a high quality deep dive into our beautiful city!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I can think of one reason why it is not as prominent on the map, so no idiot looking at Google maps thinks, 'hey this looks like I can go through here' and ends up getting there.
I remember Swanston St was full of cars, one of our busiest streets, every crossing had two policemen who wore a pith helmet. Main function was to stop cars from queuing across the intersection. I think they should be brought back.
Thank you for making a video on this! When I visit a new city, I look for long streets that appear as thin lines on maps, because they will almost certainly be the best streets to visit.
I do DoorDash in Melbourne on an e-bike and I noticed from the start Swanston street navigation absolutely sucks because it thinks it’s an alleyway, it sends me to wrong apartments etc
Another great vid, Thanks Julian
Glad you enjoyed it
Moving to Melbourne was the best thing I did in my 20s and leaving was the best thing I did in my 30s. After the past two years I'm shocked by how many people decided to stay honestly.
This video made me so homesick for beautiful Melbourne!
Melbourne misses you.
Hi Julian, great video.
I was waiting for it in the second half of the video but I'm surprised that you didn't touch on the role of GPS apps and the amount of cars that inadvertently drive down Swanson Street and sometimes even into Bourke Street mall. For a while a few years ago it was interstate numberplate and GPS was a common excuse.
This is before we even consider the numerous hostile vehicle attacks, though I'm sure they weren't using GPS, they do add to the overall liability concerns that tech companies are likely considering when they make decisions like this.
The thing is, people use these maps for driving. If it appeared as a prominent street on the map (and you didn't just blindly follow the route it plans for you), you may well plan your trip through that street, and run into a bad time.
Conversely, if you're walking and a street ends up being busier than it appeared on the map, it's usually not such a problem, so the driver's case takes priority.
That said, what people are saying about changing the map based on your travel mode makes sense. They could then de-emphasise roads without a footpath if you've selected walking.
We have the same here in brussels. Boulevard Anspach is now car free. And it's hard to locate yourself, when you check for a restaurant nearby and you don't see that main street on the map
This can vary very much depending on which map you are watching! For example Google Maps from the desktop do display the car-free Swanston Stretet with the roughly same width as the neighboring free-car Rathdowne Street at least for me (Google Maps can show different maps to different people). And if you look at the copyright notice it says "(c) 2022 Google"; it was most probably generated by Google from satellite imagery.
It does often show sources other than Google (say, TomTom), which are mostly commercial mapmakers grown out of the needs for satellite navigation and I guess maps from this video are mostly theirs. That's also probably why they don't care much about car-free streets, since pedestrians don't exactly need satellite navigation.
Yep - and resolution - when you zoom in enough it will generally appear. But the interesting one is when you can see all the major streets of Melbourne (N-S / E-W) - but no Swanston.
@@JulianOShea The thing is that, it didn't in my testing! Widths of both streets remained identical even after zooming out a lot---about 20 metres per pixel and at least 30 x 30 km area visible in a single view, and the map data source didn't change from Google. It might be the case that Australian users or mobile users receive different maps (I'm in South Korea).
That bottom block of Elizabeth needs some love. It's pretty grim.
It's bloody annoying not having it on the maps. Thanks for the explanation.
i live in melbourne and this was so interesting to watch! thank you!
I remember a 'car free' experiment was held on Swanston Street back in 1985 when the street, between Flinders and LaTrobe, was, overnight, covered in turf as part of Victoria's 150th birthday celebrations.
Swanston holds the street address of a super secret black ops facility. Clues include cheap pizza slices, bird whistles, awesome underground bargains and too many weird people to notice anything weird going on.