Part 2: Apple Monitor IIc - Retrobrite and Tune Up
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ย. 2018
- Part 1 of 2: • Part 1: Apple Monitor ...
Part 2 of 2: Retrobrite and Tune Up (this video)
If you've seen part 1, you know I had an Apple IIc when I was a young. I'm trying feel the joy again so I'm in the process of restoring an Apple IIc monitor. In this video, I retrobrite the monitor case and then give the monitor a full tune up and alignment.
Useful trips are within for anyone trying to tune up a small monochrome screen as many of the adjustments will be the same.
Monitor Order No. A2M4090
Monitor Model No. G090H
Serial# T053286
Made in Taiwan
Manufactured December 1984
US Market Model (NTSC, 60hz, 115VAC) - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Fine-tuning geometry on these old monochrome screens can be nightmare when you're a perfectionist. I've done a CRT swap on my IBM 5155 which subsequently required adjustment afterwards (first time doing that). Not sure how many hours I spent adjusting the yoke and twisting magnets (too many I'm sure), but it looks really good now to say the least. I like how your setup turned out.
Your patience when fiddling with CRT innards is commendable. Great videos.
Grew Up with Commodore 64 at home, Apple II at school. Moving into 386/486 and then modern day PC's, I never really looked back at Apple until the last year or so while recollecting and restoring Commodore computers for my "Mid-Life Crisis" collection. Now that I have all the Commodore stuff I want, I think Apple is next starting with the Apple II and the Apple IIc. Videos like this really bring back the nostalgia and make my wallet say "Oh Boy".
Watching you poke around in the CRT makes me nervous :D
The only really hazardous part is the flyback transformer in the kilovolt range, the rest of the monitor operates at rectified mains voltage or lower. Though that's a different story if you're working on an old vacuum tube based device, where the tubes can operate in the 300-500V range.
@@GGigabiteM Still doesn't make me any less nervous.
@@Voidsworn As long as you make sure it's discharged, which usually isn't even required as CRTs from the 80's and onwards tend to have a bleeder resistor, there's nothing dangerous.
I brought my IIc and monitor in from the garage a few days ago after a very long time not used. Couldn't find the power brick (a good thing) and so I ordered and have received a modern version (much better). I thought about using the retrobright since both computer and monitor have yellowed now. But, I decided at least for the time being I will just leave it yellowed. It kind of accentuates the fact that it is retro. I only have the Apple Works disks but the first time I booted up, it was just like always before. Came right up! Mine has a color display, but that's ok. Not as sharp but I'm not so sharp anymore either.... Thanks for the great content, please keep it up.
this design still looks attracitve
Last year, there was a guy in one of my college electronics classes that was still using his Apple IIc to do work. I tried to convince him to part with it...no luck :)
if it works no need to replace it.
What kind of work?
Really appreciate your attention to detail and striving for perfection Adrian. Going to have to Retrobrite my old Apple ][c, monitor, printer, mouse, PSU, external disk drive, etc when I get it all out of storage and finally get the ][c working again - it's all much, much yellower than your monitor was.
I remember sometime in the '80's our Zenith decided to crap out right before my sister was about to watch something she had been waiting for to come on. She still had about an hr and she was about to drive to Walmart that night and pick up a TV. We had a VCR so I told her if you don't mind it being green and a little small I can hook up the //c monitor to the VCR tuner and the stereo speakers. She was OK with that. I told her to tape it and she can watch it later on the new TV.
subscribed. Easily my new favorite vintage computer youtuber. Thanks especially for putting towels down when working on the hardware.
I enjoy your videos. I too had a Apple //c as a kid.
Great work man! Especially awesome to see you get into the nitty-gritty of the magnets and stuff, really trying to bring that display back to perfection! Gotta appreciate the passion in that!
I love the apple color monitor 100 because you can get both color and monochrome RGB graphics out of the same screen
Really lovely video and super helpful for upcoming restoration I’m planning. Thanks!
The retrobrite turned out great! The computer really turned out amazing. Nice restoration!
Oh my God, I'm so envious of your setup. The Apple //c was my first ever computer and had it, and loved it so much for many many years until it died and I had zero experience back then with electronics as a kid so we sold it... I regret it ever since :(( I had the exact same setup with monitor, stand, plus mouse and RGB/SCART adapter and the original Apple carrying bags. I haven't been able to get my hands on one ever since. They're getting hard to find in Europe and are all in such a bad state for too much money. I so much appreciate all the work you've done on yours and it turned out fabulous!!! Well done!
You really remind me of Alex from Linus tech tips in your voice and how you talk. Making me think it’s him who I’m watching
Great work on that Apple! Quite the dedication and desire to restore that I don't have these days. I personally don't miss having to make geometric and convergence adjustments on CRTs especially versus modern displays.
My nostalgia for the Apple II most centers on elementary school since they so heavily invested in them for the computer lab. I thought they were pretty terrible at first since we had a Commodore 128 at home but they quickly grew on me. Since I only played games at home, being forced to take typing exercises and learn BASIC in class with them is what sold me on them. To this day I will still claim that I really learned how to type on an Apple II. Hehe. :)
Commodore should have built 80 column capability into the C64, when they designed it. At least GEOS simulated 80 columns in software on the 64.
The nameplate on your dryer made me do a double-take ;-)
I need to get a hold of one of those TRS-80 dryers.
i guess it is kinda randomly asking but does anybody know a good place to stream newly released tv shows online ?
@Andres King Flixportal :P
@Rodrigo Roger Thank you, signed up and it seems to work :) I appreciate it !
@Andres King You are welcome :D
Really enjoy your videos, Adrian - especially those that dive into CRTs. I have a couple of old consumer sets that I am repairing and tuning up at the moment, myself. My Apple collection is rather lacking, but i hope to add an Apple II... most likely a GS at some point. Keep up the good work!
Well done. Nice restoration.
What you are messing with is calle "Pin Cushioning" Get the parallels fixed first then deal with the rings. They deal with the corners or the squishy sides. And then once you get close the little rings deal with the fine detail of the corner. It is a tedious process that is why you have the raster generator. Look at the edges. the center is coarse, the corners are tuning it in.
I guess I'm the only one that likes leaving the stuff "yellow", I don't know if it's "nostalgia" or "knowing it's old", but I don't want my old computers to look white like brand new.
and I love green monochrome monitors, I wish I still had the one I used on an XT in the 80s.
It looks perfect now!!
it goes faster if you put the lid on the tub(if its clear)
"i didn't take a picture of how these were oriented", you did, like 50 frames per second or so :)
Funny that there are cell phones that are almost this monitor size! And bigger iPads, who would have thought of these things back in 1984! 👍🤠 Wonder what technology will bring in another 38 years from now.
Great restoration, looks brand new now. I have an M1296 for my LCII which has suffered a major PCB corrosion. I had it completely rebuilt (imagine desoldering every single component just to clean the traces and replace corroded resistors and leaky caps), but it turned out, that the flyback is toasted. Bummer...
Yes, old stuff was just built properly and components including 'lytic capacitors were better quality anyway. I have various values/voltages of unused caps from the 70s and 80s that are still fine but ive replaced countless caps from the 90s/2000's that have high ESR/low capacitance and/or are bulging/leaky.
The bubbles are probably the ozone forming. That's what's actually doing the job and is the reason that covering the tubs is generally a good idea, keeping the useful gases in.
That came out so nice! Loke almost brand new! :-)
man this brings back memories. You need to turn the yoke to center the raster pattern. @ 12:31 I will keep watching.
I used to have that exact washer and the dryer to match!
I had one when they first came out in 1984 in Australia. Looking through the manual, I was fascinated by the RJ12 modem/phone cables that the US used and thought how crap our Telecom 210 connectors were. I have very fond memories of this little computer and my parents used it in their business up until 2000!
Apple had a huge market in Australia during the 80's as they pushed hard into the education market in Primary and Secondary schools (years 1 - 7 primary and 8 - 12 secondary). I used Apple IIe's at school during the 1980's and the IIc at home. I am not 100% sure the IIc put out PAL/50Hz from it's composite monitor port. I did connect up the clip on RF modulator for display on CRT TV''s of the time. It seems the RCA and S-Video inputs were only on high end TV's. We had a similar large 210 Telecom plug to RJ12 converter like you mentioned, but this was standard on most phone outlets well into the 2000's ;).
Maybe someone in the comments can confirm a PAL output from the Australian IIc?
I have no idea what a 210 connector is -- are you referring to the 600 series connector that Australia used to use?
@@AureliusR Correct you are. Don’t rely on kid memory of things names, always check.
i like the IIc monitor
its so small its cute
great video!! like new the iic👍🕹🙏🏻
Love the way it turned out in the end! Definitely looks nicer with the retrobright done.
As a side-question, what sort of pattern generator are you using? I might need one when I start getting my two CRTs in order.
Thanks! Time to go look at the datasheet and keep my eyes peeled for one on eBay.
I have the Sam's for this. PM me if you'd like it. Also, if you're going to do any more CRT work, you should invest in a set of plastic tools, better known as "diddle sticks". They can generally be had on eBay for about 7 bucks with free shipping. I wouldn't worry too much about getting shocked. No one likes to get hurt, just leave one hand in your pocket.
I only ever had problems with the cling wrap. I started just brushing on the cream and not using cling wrap at all. It works perfectly.
I'm in the midst of my first retrobrite project ever, it's a IIc and the one side where I brushed on the cream but did not cover it with plastic wrap, I got the streaking but the other sides that went under the plastic wrap came out looking great ... so YMMV. It might matter that I am not using cling wrap, but painter's plastic sheeting that comes in a big roll.
Streaks can be caused by a number of things, but most overlooked is the plastic itself, it depends how well that broninated plastic was mixed up to begin with and may have a concentration of more chemical in one area than another
amazing adrian!!
I need to do this with my VR201 from my DEC Rainbow. It has a bit of burn in but man that amber display brings back memories. Too bad HV stuff gives me the willies...for good reason.
Enjoy with the apple
Great video, you might want to give some warnings about poking around inside CRTs though since they can still hold a lot of charge even after they've been turned off?
Great Video. Seems you’re a real specialist for apple crt.
Do you see possibility to do a hack to change voltage from 110V US to European 230V?
You need a tub with clear sealed lid, and adding generic oxiclean helps the peroxide, it's more about trapping the heat in with the chemicals than anything else, and submersion method works best for me with a clear sealed Lid on a day that's 80F or water in my backyard in direct sunlight. I've gotten a number of keyboard fix with this method.
The //c was the beginning of the Snow White design at Apple, but the design had both "Fog" or off white and platinum. The IIgs started the platinum run. The Macintosh II was Frog Design's first clean slate design. The //c was a compromise design. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_White_design_language
Very good, I just scored myself a //c plus and a //c monitor. Or is it IIc? Anyway, I will be retrobriting soon and thanks to you not poking in the dark.
I'm sure you watch The8BitGuy; when he retrobrites outside in Texas, his "immersion tanks" get up to 120F :D Regional retrobriting variations :)
Yeah, I think on the Osborne (don't have time to check atm) he did the cream treatment and got some bad marbling on it, yeah?
RetroManCave's video on retrobrite was pretty decent. For submersion, sous vide is nice for getting the water to a nice even temperature.
He did cream on the keyboard bottom housing, the keys, panels, housing upper and lower and they all marbled. He fixed the panels (at least) by using immersion.
Adrian Black the output from the iic was PAL I believe. I would have check on this though as I used to use the little clip on RF modulator to output to the crap TV’s of the time.
I live not that far from him maybe an hour at most, hope to meet him one day. Not only is it hotter here in Texas during the summer especially UV rays are stronger than up North. The more south you go the hotter it gets and the stronger the UV rays get. Your much more likely to get a sunburn much faster in Texas or Florida than a Northern state like Maine.
I thought The 8-bit Guy had figured out that the streakiness generally happens with the opaque peroxide creams and variability in film thickness?
I have a working IIc in my collection as well. Definitely one of my favorites! It was something I got later in life (I didn’t grow up on the Apple IIc), but I am wanting to get the best retro experience out of it that I can. I came across ADTPro online and will be ordering the cables to make that work. Do you have any recommendations for online resources, software or even accessories I could get to really get a feel for what it would have been like to use this computer back in the day?
Apart from the Apple //c, the LaserWriter was also "Snow White" . FWIW
The 8-bit guy has done history video segments so if you check those out as I believe that it was used on other apple computers also from that time era
Currently restoring a IIc(also as a replacement for one I had as a kid), have the exact monitor as yours from the outside, right down to the part number...but the board seems to be different(the focus pot is on the left side, not the back, have to pull the whole rear case to get at it) and the crt is white, not green. All the research ive done says these were only in green, and my original was green... im very confused. lol
Great job. But I am in disagreement on the Apple II (pre-IIgs) not having good color. I actually like the color scheme of the Apple II. It's not as good as other computers but it's good enough for me. :-)
Don't bother with the UV protection coating unless they're going to get exposed to lots of UV again. The damage to the plastic runs deep and will come to the surface again and re-yellow even if it's never exposed to UV again -- so if you want to bleach it with peroxide again you'll have to remove that UV coat anyway. Adding the UV coat will only protect it from further damage, but the existing damaged will still re-yellow the surface.
for submergeon metod put seran wrap and it will go faster
retro brite submersion method needs water at least 100d c and you need to put clingfilm/ceran wrap over the top to trap the gas produced... :D
About 25 years ago, I bought a brand new IIc with monitor for super cheap in one of those stores that specializes in unsold stuff; it was basically obsolete by then but still too new to be collectible. I just got it out of curiosity, briefly used it as a terminal, but finally gave it away because I didn't really have any use for it. I remember being annoyed that you had to set the clock every time you turned it on. Were all models like that or was that a defect?
Good work. ;)
I had a IIc in the 90s, and it always reminds me of the movie "Explorers" (1985). hehe
@@adriansdigitalbasement
Yeah, it definitely hasn't aged well.
What / who they finally meet near the end is still a bit of a let down, but Robert Picardo's performance is great.
I loved the concept of the sphere, though, and it was funny thinking about the standard Apple monitor doing vector graphics. lol
@@adriansdigitalbasement
It was fun. I watched it again last year. It's a bit of a guilty pleasure, like Flight Of The Navigator.
I guess it did at least give them part of the idea for the classic Innerspace a couple of years later. (also Joe Dante, of course, and also Robert Picardo. lol).
I remember the G+ was white white
I want to hook up the monitor to modern pc in any. Was thinking a matrix program would be cool to have running or death star plans
Exeillant
Just picked this up for $200 the other day:
Apple IIc A2S4100
AppleColor Composite Monitor A2M6020
Apple Image Writer II A9M0310 (missing the rear plastic)
Apple Joystick A2M2012
Everything seems to work though I have no disks right now. I took a melamine sponge to start cleaning it so then I can retrobrite it later. Looking forward to playing with it. I remember hanging out with my older brother and playing games, printing stuff out using Printshop. He had the monochrome monitor like you, though I recall it being white phosphor and not green. Maybe I am remembering wrong.
I've seen a bunch of them and they are all green -- maybe someone swapped yours?
@@adriansdigitalbasement Doubtful. Like said, I am probably remembering wrong :)
Maybe it was actually a color monitor switched to monochrome mode.
That was a feature of Apple's color monitors for the Apple II line, you could turn color off and get a monochrome image - since you lose display resolution when color is on.
Nice score, getting that IIc. I got a IIc just a few months ago with the little 9" monochrome monitor. Got a great deal on it, really the only shortcoming is that it's the older model (A2S4000) so the keyboard isn't the nicer one with ALPS switches that the 4100 has.
Btw, color safe bleach (chlorox 2 etc) is strong peroxide with surfactants added, i expect it would work at least as well as hair bleach, and would probably be cheaper.
I clicked on the video and was like "I saw this on Reddit!"
IIc plastics yellow hardcore also add oxyclean to your submersion to boost the oxygen content, it will make it take off
edit: IIGS used the same as the //c
edit edit: like the mac screens the width was "calibrated" to fit a sheet of paper wide and half sheet tall when you printed it you got a good 1:1 feeling
#keepOregonNerdy
0:18 you sounded like Voultar lol, sit back, strap on and get "splayed out here"... ooh-err missus!
And I don't remember my IIc being that cream colored. My monitor might be the issue. Though I am old enough that I worked on a black apple II
Nice to see someone messing about with a CRT to get the best possible picture
Curious why you compared with the painted stand instead of the inner un-yellowed plastic sections...?
The area behind the Apple badge was the original color, but it was small and was probably missed. But these are minor quibbles compared to the rest of the video which is a great introduction into what it takes to adjust a CRT. Next time, use plastic tools though :-)
My Apple IIc+ (just got it last week!) is not platinum.
Radio shack trs 80, now as a dryer.
For the very little it's worth, hydrogen peroxide exposed to sunlight will develop bubbles anyway, 2H₂O₂ + UV → 2H₂O + O₂. (Hydrogen peroxide is really just looking for _any_ excuse to come apart into water and oxygen-for example, look up the British submarine that was sunk when a torpedo powered by high-strength peroxide went off while the sub was still docked...)
Yellowing on one side often means it was exposed to the sun from the same side for a long time. So possibly it was next to a window :)
17:02 Ding dong!
I have a red screen. Can I do anything to fix that?
The bubbles would be the peroxide breaking down into oxygen
I just got a monitor and image is slightly tilted. After seeing parts 1&2 I think I'll just let it be😊
@@adriansdigitalbasement wow that actually worked!!! Just fudged one of the magnets a lil bit and it's straight! Thanks man!!!!!!
Worried about hot glue melting? They make high temp hot glue that works as well as super glue, and my best bed is you could silver solder with the hot glue gun itself. If you can silver solder with a hot glue gun, I don't think you'll have to worry about a crt melting the glue that gun uses.
What test pattern generator do you use?
Thank you, sir.
If anyone can share the name of the pattern generator I'd appreciate it - I've got one of these that need a bit of adjustment. Thanks.
I use plain old thick bleach and a zip lock bag, works great!
Get an ESP8266 for wifi modem emulation!
I’ve got a pile of esp8266 boards and would donate one to the cause if you’d like one sooner.
New Apple group: facebook.com/groups/appleretrogamers
🤔😎🍻👍
I feel sorry for the torture of your childhood.
Those bubbles are most likely oxygen. Peroxide dissolves to water and a single lone oxygen atom, which wants to react with anything, other lone oxygen atoms or plastic. What you're doing is basically "burning" (i.e. reacting with oxygen) the top layer of the plastic. I'm not sure how it works in this case, it may remove the top layer and there is a fresh layer below it, or it may just damage the surface of the plastic (i.e. changing its structure), which changes the color...
Anyway, peroxide will damage anything it touches, so never put anything sensitive into it. The 8-bit guy once put some leather handle into it, and peroxide destroyed it completely.
The dangers of poking around inside a CRT is overblown, unless you are touching mains voltage parts of the circuit (hard to do from the top) you are in no immediate danger. If you somehow get bit by the High Voltage from the flyback, it's low current and high frequency (skin effect) and is more pain than danger. Even the capacitive effect from a CRT that size isn't enough to kill you, more akin to a giant static shock and you would have to remove the suction cup anyway. There is around 1-2 kilo volts on the neck board but that is low current also, nothing life threatening just a hard bite and a flash of adrenaline.
so creamy...
CRT Puckerfactor: 3/10