Hey to all the not very smart people and countries out there I have a pro tip because you just can't seem to grasp the concept. STOP INVADING COUNTRIES AND THEY WON'T KEEP JOINING NATO. You should get your top rocket scientists to discuss it.
@@varpen That was the hope of the Biden administration when they started the proxy war in Ukraine. But it backfired. Instead Putin's approval rating has soared in Russia. Unlike his own of course. Biden made a huge mistake.
@3:39 It's a shame that she says Ukraine was forced to give up the nukes, instead of mentioning that Ukraine was struggling to maintain the nukes safely and thus risking nuclear fallout on its own territory. Also, those nukes were made in and controlled from Russia, similar to how the US has nukes in other countries - Turkey is the easiest example. Yes I get some of the short range nukes may of had local control, but the point is that the way she describes those events creates a completely different impression.
What you are saying are irrelevant technical details. 1. Whether there is a nuclear fallout or not - it does not discount the fact that the nuclear warheads were handed over 2. It is much easier to use the nuclear warheads available as means of developing one's own nuclear weapons as opposed to starting a nuclear program from scratch after handing them over.
There was no security guarantee for Ukraine from anybody between 1991 and 2008. Till then there was no security problems for Ukraine. Then US comes with the offer of security guarantee... There starts the unending security problems for Ukraine!
the US comes with a security guarantee in 2008 ?? If that would be the case - Ukraine would be in NATO way before the events of 2022, or at the very least under US «security umbrella" Stop spreading misinformation
Oh please - in 1999, Yeltsin literally begged Clinton for Russia to provide , I quote "security for Europe, give us Europe mr. Clinton" ...Russia is not the good guy here and never will be
@@231rosslynUkraine applied to NATO. 0:02 NATO built its bases on Ukrainian territory. NATO and Ukraine worked out a simulation of a nuclear strike on Russia from Ukrainian territory. I think that is quite enough.
@@picklethepirate How is that inconvenient truth? If, indeed it actually true (where's the confirmation?). Ukraine is a sovereign country and can decide on who is on her territory and who is not. The fact that russia violated the sovereignty of Ukraine changes nothing. Russia simply violates int'l law and her own agreements, such as Budapest memorandum.
@@231rosslyn Inconvenient because Russia has a right to a Monroe doctrine too. Indivisible security was broken so Russia has to eliminate the threat. Nothing will stop this outcome. Study the American continent to learn.
@felixvandiggelen8731 Russia may have the right to whatever you think, however, none of that is a justification for aggression against neighbouring country. Read statutes of the UN.
@@231rosslyn okay, rethink my comment when you get back to planet Earth, or when you read about the Cuban Missile Crisis when you reach 10th grade haha
How about NATO focusing on Russia’s guarantee of security, not just Ukraine? Perhaps extending an invitation to both countries to join an alliance with NATO might actually work.
Few days ago after biden authorised use of long range missiles i can see DW panic after Russia launched a ICBM 😂 now they talking about peace talks after seeing Russia ain blinking 😂😂😂😂
They have been talking about peace since Trump was reelected. It's not about fear or whatever you want to make up, it is about the US stopping supplies.
@@darksidegamer6192that's another way to say that the war can only stop or continue depending on what the US decides. Literally, Ukraine stands has no chance to resist Russian advance for 90 days if US stopped supplying weapons. It's called proxy war!
So please tell us when and by who russia was attacked? And I think that countries like Poland could say the same about russia which were talking quite often that wants to have Poland under it's influence. But the issue is that Poland doesn't want it.
The question of long term security of Ukraine is going to become irrelevant, because Russia won't allow country like Ukraine to exist. As would any other superpower.
But didn't Putin say they are just protecting it's people in the east? Are you suggesting Russia is trying to exterminate Ukraine? You people just can't choose between victim and perpetrator.
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@@Evemeister12When Ukraine was neutral under its constitution (until Dec. 2014) - it was invaded by Russia (in Feb 2014). When Ukraine started getting initial western support - It stabilised the frontline. When Ukraine got enough of support to conduct offensive operations - Kharkiv offensive took place with Russian frontlines collapsing as a result.
🤣🤣 Like how Finland regrets joining NATO? Everyone knows why Russia is hellbent on stopping Ukraine from joining NATO. It's because Putin would never be able to fulfill his master plan to invade and occupy the ENTIRE country without Article 5 leveled on his head
Skin in the game is more important than NATO membership. Ukraine doesn’t have to be a NATO member to have NATO bases in Ukraine. All Ukraine has to do is invite NATO members to establish military bases at strategic locations within Ukraine. That should be integral to any settlement. The Ukrainians need to get it out of their heads that Article 5 of the NATO charter is a security guarantee. It’s not because it doesn't obligate any nation to do anything in the event of an attack. It just says, "An attack on one is an attack on all." That means NOTHING.
It’s a simplest question,because the fate of Ukraine is not depend on themselves,It depends on the position of US and EU even Russia.The geopolitical strategy of Ukraine is focused on maintaining a subtle balance between NATO and Russia.but when the scale beginning to tilt towards any side,The vulnerable balance will be break up.
Any guarantees are pointless because outside of Poland and the Baltics the electorate won’t pay for Ukraine fight for Ukraine or die for Ukraine no matter what the media and politicians say and if they push it the best they could hope for is being voted out and the worst ends very badly
They keep talking about Ukraine Russia deal from perspective of Ukraine and NATO but what does Russia have to gain from such "peace plan" right now especially when Ukraine right now is really on the back foot, so freezing the conflict right now benefits them more than Russia. So unless Ukraine and NATO make huge concessions to Russia I don't see the point of this deal for Russia.
Zelensky consistently claims that Putin opposes peace, but his own actions suggest otherwise. He resists peace because agreeing to any deal could provoke backlash from the Banderite factions. Moreover, he appears to be intoxicated by power and the recognition he currently enjoys. A peace agreement might force him to step aside, losing both his influence and status-something he seems unwilling to risk. As a result, he continues to prolong the conflict, prioritizing his personal interests over a resolution.
Your comment can be implemented on puttin as well. Why don't you see a simple fact? Both are wrong. Russia or Ukraine or its western allies everyone is in the wrong here and the only one paying the price is innocent civilians. If you think Russia is some sort of saint who ain't a sinner? We'll think again read Russian history first also same can be applied to other European and American countries. Open your eyes don't pick a side be neutral be wise. Be human and support humanity..
A Nato membership for Ukraine, is not nearly enough. Russia is next door neighbor, and they can be there again before morning coffee. I see the solution, that the west helps Ukraine having a very large conventional army, 1 mio men, and we help them with armor. The soldiers "needs to stand there", ready. Anything on paper isn't worth anything. With Russia you only have the agreement that's backed up with military power.
This is the exact kind of thinking that got Ukraine into this mess in the first place. By 2022 Ukraine already had the 2nd largest army in Europe. 1 million men? There are not many eligible men left to drag off the streets and military age men don't just grow on trees. Providing them more weapons? Ukraine was given plenty of weapons and they were just delaying the inevitable. Your plan would work if Ukraine was in this with any other neighboring country. But this is Russia we're talking about and they aren't going anywhere.
>I see the solution, that the west helps Ukraine having a very large conventional army, 1 mio men, and we help them with armor. They had 1.2mil army+reserv at 2020. And they was given billions and billions in weapon. Russia force in Ukraine 2022 was around 200k. Now it's around 600-700k. At 1989 when democracy begins UA have ~52mil population. May 2023 they had on paper ~23. Now - less then 20. So yeah, great plan - lets mobilize from tiny air 1mil cos 1.2mil worked soo well agains 200k in 2022.
@marshmello6636 underground facilities. They already have military factories underground, would not be difficult to construct a lab for nuclear fusion (waste from nuclear energy)
@@yanivandesompele3413 I would think Russia would know the exact location of those underground bases are because of the USSR but I guess we'll all find out in time
After we hard the news on hypersonic Mach10 Oreshnik, two peole have disappeared from the net and channels! NATO Chief Mr Niceman Rutte and the former NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg! No one has heard of them. Both seem to be busy with early Jule (Christmas) Parties in November!
The interview with Fabrice Pothier was highly interesting and impressive. I've rarely heard from or seen anybody where it's so obvious how experienced of a strategist and negotiator he is.
@@johny-ql4wn you should learn the back round instead of just deciding based on Western news which shows one-sided news, i have friends in both Ukraine and Russia, did get all information from them
She contradicted herself. She claimed that 3rd country military presence in Ukraine would deter Z. Then, she gave UK maritime patrols in 2021 as example of 3rd country military presence. It obviously didn’t deter Z.
Ukraine was forced to give up nukes - because that was one condition for its independence. The control and command of the nukes were always in Moscow. There is no reason to feel sorry for Ukraine. It was its choice to backstab Russia, for a bribe from the US. It was its choice to use the US to fight Russia. It played that game and lost. The Ukraine of 1991 is gone, what may be left will be unviable and dependent on EU aid, and the US will do what it always does, move on and hand their failed project to the EU. Just get over it.
Ukraine was NOT forced to give up those nukes. They could not use them, and they did not want them. The concern back then was to make sure that abandoned Russian nuclear material didn't make its way to terrorists and/or evil dictators. The narrative you are pushing is a myth.
The only way to prevent Putin coming back for another special op in Ukraine is to ensure that Ukraine is fast tracked into NATO. The Ukrainian army has fought for this and deserve membership .they have proved that they have a very good army.
Don't you understand that once the war is over there will be Ukraine no more? "Ukraine is to ensure that Ukraine is fast-tracked into NATO" It is exactly what NATO did during the conference in Munich in February 2022. Are you blind or ignorant?
According to the last NATO expert he said how to support and protect Ukraine. When you trying to expand NATO to Ukraine, this conflict spin out and reach most probably Poland and those 3- tiny Chihuahua countries before the end of this year...🤔
Ukraine needs things about own people no way too joint NATO because Russia what gives NATO to Ukraine’s ordinary people no man power no money for fighting with Russia its be better just peace talks 😊
Lol in order for there to be a deal both sides need to agree. Did you forget common sense? What makes you think russia will agree? And if russia doesn't agree What makes you think they will stop? And if they don't stop what makes you think ukraine will be safe? Your suggestion is putting the cart before the horse.
Ukraine claims that bilateral security guarantees will help them deter Z. At the same time, they claim that they got security guarantees in Budapest memo. Budapest memo didn’t deter Z. So bilateral security guarantees are use. Even NATO membership is useless, if Budapest memo was really validly binding.
Every guest to this host should insist to have all questions submitted in advance so that short direct answers can be prepared in order to safeguard this host from constantly interrupting each guest. And for the guests to indicate in advance also, that they are prepared to walk off camera mid interview if the host carries out such boorish behaviour. Seriously, the guests are there because they have professional opinions to share, not to be steam rolled by a host that only puts himself front & center
3:44 ⚠️ ONE MORE TIME ⚠️ UKR didn’t own the nukes put there by USSR. Possession is 9/10 of law? Fine. But in 90s, UKR has neither the launch codes nor capacity to maintain the stockpile. Nukes are rather sensitive, no? Ms Ogryzko is either ignorant or deliberately hiding the fact that NATO has specific prerequisites for an invitation, much less actual entry. UKR has been trying since the 90s & continually failed to meet them (eg, political stability & no corruption).
Zelensky's security concerns are obviously important. Let us remember that US academics, politicians and other experts predicted the war based on Western behaviour and policy which completely disregarded Russia's security concerns. Could this war have been avoided from starting with savvy diplomacy? We will never know since that ship has sailed and sunk. Moreover, despite promises of support and cheerleading from the West, Ukraine never got the support it required for victory. The present situation is very sad for Ukraine whose population has suffered considerable pain and loss. Let us hope that a satisfactory solution can be reached. Regarding NATO membership for Ukraine, if membership is denied, especially after the West wanted to expand NATO to Ukraine in the first place, that would be a disappointing end for this tragedy. Let us hope that after so much sacrifice, Ukraine gets a satisfactory result.
Fabrice Pothier, i will suggest that if you care so much for you to go and help Ukraine on the front lines, they need help over there, and the people interest should be peace, not saying lets do what i want and what i think is best after all there's more than one player and the decision can bring WW3 and idk you but last WW we break records on people that died all over the world.... ask your self you want to break records again... is not a record to be proud of, and yes, Russia was the aggressor, but this is calling for the destruction of what we all know..... if you have family, think if they will be with you if WW3 start and for how long they will be with you if it happens..... de-escalate!!!
I think peace ✌️ deal should be conditional upon Russia 🇷🇺 will never attack Ukraine 🇺🇦 in the future, if Russia breaks peace deal, Ukraine should be automatically part of NATO. if NATO still exist, if not then USA should be responsible for Ukraine security.
USA and UK are already responsible for Ukraine security after Russia violated the last security agreement. It isn’t enough. Ukraine must have their own military power to defend themselves.
Europe has been reminded of the power of Russia and will only grow from now on. Why aggrivate the situation?? Zelensky still thinks he is a comedian while people are dying.
How about both Ukraine and Russia are invited to join NATO and EU. It will end all hostilities and they'll be able to negotiate as Allies. Think about it
@@kamilhorvat8290 Russia never applied. Putin did not want to stay in line and meet the criteria like every other country. Besides nobody would let abusive husband to get into women's shelter.
@@GolDRoger-fx2fp weak leader, strong leader doesnt matter. whoever is sitting there is dealing with someone with a nuke. even if its mutually assured, EU will lose more as they are wealthy and comfortable now compared to Russia's potato economy.
@gtaraya mental control our muscles that perform physically. The same with leadership that control the Armed Forces that do action. Weak leadership only make Armed Forces respond weaker. Did you get what i mean?.
She wants NATO membership but till that happens she wants a Korea like frozen conflict. Russia will accept none. Kyiv has two options...either be a Russia friendly state or continue to fight with unreliable US support and eventually become defunct. She should be negotiating for EU membership not NATO.
I think the panelists asked the right questions and the guests did not really convince with their answers (and no, "Putin bad, Nato good", is not a good answer). There cannot be a negotiation if you keep bringing NATO membership, we have to remember that the reason Putin attacked Ukraine was because NATO/EU membership was being discussed! So you have to be realistic here and drop that option, there ARE alternatives, but it your are a warmonger any peaceful agreement is not in your interest.
@@nigelgarrett7970 there were talks already of joining NATO and the EU, long before that, you just have to pay attention, it is readily available in Wikipedia too. But to answer your question more specifically, it all boils down to NATO: Russia occupied Crimea in 2014, yes, but it was only after the Ukrainian Revolution, when the then president Yanukovich was removed. Under his presidency the Ukrainian parliament voted to abandon the goal of NATO membership and re-affirm Ukraine's neutral status. Removing him was a coup, it was with the goal to continue the NATO and EU membership, and this of course is a red line for Putin, so this marks the beginning of the Russian-Ukraine war.
@@fede0101 The talks for joining NATO started in 2008 and were suspended in 2010. If you are so keen on the will of the Ukrainian parliament, that was the body that opted to remove the president. Why did they do this? Was it because the president went against the will of the parliament by cancelling talks about a trade agreement with the EU and instead started talks about a trade deal with Russia? Was this the "coup" that ended with negotiations between the parliament and the president? So where exactly was the NATO involvement then? And if you bother to follow the 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest you would know that NATO was far from unanimous about NATO membership for Ukraine. In particular, France and Germany blocked Ukraine from moving straight to a Membership Action Plan. So it was by no way certain at that time that NATO membership would happen for Ukraine.
- It's obvious that Ukraine won't be invited into NATO, so what's the solution?
- Join NATO
- ...
it’s not gonna happen
Hey to all the not very smart people and countries out there I have a pro tip because you just can't seem to grasp the concept. STOP INVADING COUNTRIES AND THEY WON'T KEEP JOINING NATO. You should get your top rocket scientists to discuss it.
Never going to happen
Yeah its a delusional goal. Even more delusional than EU membership.
This war ends the same way as the most recent war in Afghanistan. The sudden collapse comes as a total surprise to all.
Two more weeks, right comrade?
Not really a surprise since US proxy war planners admitted way back in 2019 that the war would eventually end in a disadvantageous peace for Ukraine.
@@cl7634But you preferred 3 days period all along the three years war ! Isn't it !?
Exactly, just as the soviet regime fell, so will Putin's. Suddenly.
@@varpen That was the hope of the Biden administration when they started the proxy war in Ukraine. But it backfired. Instead Putin's approval rating has soared in Russia. Unlike his own of course. Biden made a huge mistake.
Better title: How to guarantee Ukraine doesn't exist after the war.
It is well under way as we speak!
@@psnaris nice try, vlad.
One more better: How to guarantee someone first think, and only after writing
@3:39 It's a shame that she says Ukraine was forced to give up the nukes, instead of mentioning that Ukraine was struggling to maintain the nukes safely and thus risking nuclear fallout on its own territory. Also, those nukes were made in and controlled from Russia, similar to how the US has nukes in other countries - Turkey is the easiest example. Yes I get some of the short range nukes may of had local control, but the point is that the way she describes those events creates a completely different impression.
She was right
@@DinaMeYoung4797
She is wrong. The nukes belonged and were controlled by the USSR.
What you are saying are irrelevant technical details.
1. Whether there is a nuclear fallout or not - it does not discount the fact that the nuclear warheads were handed over
2. It is much easier to use the nuclear warheads available as means of developing one's own nuclear weapons as opposed to starting a nuclear program from scratch after handing them over.
@@DinaMeYoung4797 she wasnt
@@uroboros4260 Yes, she was.
There was no security guarantee for Ukraine from anybody between 1991 and 2008. Till then there was no security problems for Ukraine. Then US comes with the offer of security guarantee... There starts the unending security problems for Ukraine!
The US gives with the left and takes with the right.
The 2014 coup by the known culprits 😢😮😮
the US comes with a security guarantee in 2008 ??
If that would be the case - Ukraine would be in NATO way before the events of 2022, or at the very least under US «security umbrella"
Stop spreading misinformation
Oh please - in 1999, Yeltsin literally begged Clinton for Russia to provide , I quote "security for Europe, give us Europe mr. Clinton" ...Russia is not the good guy here and never will be
There has never been a security guarantee for Ukraine.
They still dont understand that NATO membership is the reason Russia is levelling Ukraine. Delulu
This is false and untrue. You did not watch the video at all.
Well, Ukraine is not a NATO member. That's why russia attacked.
Putin has no balls
@@231rosslynUkraine applied to NATO.
0:02 NATO built its bases on Ukrainian territory.
NATO and Ukraine worked out a simulation of a nuclear strike on Russia from Ukrainian territory.
I think that is quite enough.
Russia ln treats forced Ukraine and Moldova considering joining NATO in 2008
security for Ukraine after 1991 ... Where Is france ? UK ?
France + UK busy expanding NATO to encircle Russia.
They can't fight a war without the US
Hiding
@@nicolasloiseau8971 Too busy expanding NATO to Russian borders!
Prerequisit for that was nato not expanding further east than Germany borders
Look at how fast he interrupts her when she points out NATO troops were on the ground in UKR prior to 2022!!!! Inconvenient truth!
@@picklethepirate How is that inconvenient truth? If, indeed it actually true (where's the confirmation?). Ukraine is a sovereign country and can decide on who is on her territory and who is not. The fact that russia violated the sovereignty of Ukraine changes nothing. Russia simply violates int'l law and her own agreements, such as Budapest memorandum.
@@231rosslyn Inconvenient because Russia has a right to a Monroe doctrine too. Indivisible security was broken so Russia has to eliminate the threat. Nothing will stop this outcome. Study the American continent to learn.
@felixvandiggelen8731 Russia may have the right to whatever you think, however, none of that is a justification for aggression against neighbouring country. Read statutes of the UN.
@@231rosslyn okay, rethink my comment when you get back to planet Earth, or when you read about the Cuban Missile Crisis when you reach 10th grade haha
@picklethepirate You simply talk nonsense. Do you have anything to the topic?
We hear about Ukraine’s security guarantees, Europe’s security guarantees, and NATO’s security guarantees. What about Russia’s security guarantees?
Both of these speakers don’t seem to appreciate that Ukraine’s NATO aspiration is determined by what is happening on the battlefield.
But I thought Ukraine was winning? 😂😂😂
you are blind if you still believe that
Here come the bots, timely as ever, did you mention russia's shovels yet?
Bot army is here!!
@@tommasorucci4088 i cant win argument, so you are a bot.. so easypeasy
@@galatheumbreon6862sarcasm dude, kesus
How about NATO focusing on Russia’s guarantee of security, not just Ukraine? Perhaps extending an invitation to both countries to join an alliance with NATO might actually work.
Few days ago after biden authorised use of long range missiles i can see DW panic after Russia launched a ICBM 😂 now they talking about peace talks after seeing Russia ain blinking 😂😂😂😂
They have been talking about peace since Trump was reelected. It's not about fear or whatever you want to make up, it is about the US stopping supplies.
@@darksidegamer6192that's another way to say that the war can only stop or continue depending on what the US decides. Literally, Ukraine stands has no chance to resist Russian advance for 90 days if US stopped supplying weapons. It's called proxy war!
panic? lol, yeah sure mate ;)
@themeanmachine84 why don NATO face Russia head on and stop hiding behind ukraine like cowards they are😂
@@darksidegamer6192why's nato not just admitting Ukraine into nato
Let’s just give them security guarantees like we did when they gave up their nuclear weapons. I’m sure Ukraine will buy into those lies again.
What about security for Russia ?
Russia has been steadily surrounded by aggressive NATO fo years.
Why countries around russia want to join NATO?
Huh? Why did Finland and Sweden join? You have a problem with cause and effect logic.
russia guarantees? Biggest nuke arsenal.
Nato is a defensive aliance.
Where
So please tell us when and by who russia was attacked? And I think that countries like Poland could say the same about russia which were talking quite often that wants to have Poland under it's influence. But the issue is that Poland doesn't want it.
Fabrizio Portier- having such ppl like u as adviser is the reason the world is in such poor situation.
He doesn't look French to me
How to guarantee? The answer is in 2007 Putins speech in Munich Security Conference.
Winter has started and cocainsky is not ready.
The question of long term security of Ukraine is going to become irrelevant, because Russia won't allow country like Ukraine to exist. As would any other superpower.
Yeah same goes USA. It not allow middle east to prosper.
But didn't Putin say they are just protecting it's people in the east? Are you suggesting Russia is trying to exterminate Ukraine? You people just can't choose between victim and perpetrator.
What gurantee did the US and NATO gave to Iraq and Afghanistan?
You work for 40yrs to have $1M in your
retirement, meanwhile some people are putting just $10K in a meme coin from just a few months ago and now they are multimillionaires.
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inviting Ukraine to join NATO is going to be the most reckless decision to make, and you will regret it
What is the alternative then? Keeping Ukraine neutral so it would fight alone ones again, when Russia has rebuild there army?
@@yanivandesompele3413 there was no war before 2014 neutrality.
@yanivandesompele3413 when ukraine was neutral, there was peace. When it pivoted to the USA , problems started.
@@Evemeister12When Ukraine was neutral under its constitution (until Dec. 2014) - it was invaded by Russia (in Feb 2014).
When Ukraine started getting initial western support - It stabilised the frontline.
When Ukraine got enough of support to conduct offensive operations - Kharkiv offensive took place with Russian frontlines collapsing as a result.
🤣🤣 Like how Finland regrets joining NATO? Everyone knows why Russia is hellbent on stopping Ukraine from joining NATO. It's because Putin would never be able to fulfill his master plan to invade and occupy the ENTIRE country without Article 5 leveled on his head
But Zelensky doesn't want peace. He wants more missiles.
The Trilateral Process go read it...
he doesn't want peace on Pootin's terms, which is giving up to russia, Ivanushka Durachok.
MIssiles and a little bit of reimbursement
@@chaosland5325 yaeh. The grate peacemaker Pootin🤣🤣 You are funny, ivan.
@@TheTwangKings RDS?
Can you invite guests that are realistic and have common sense ?
Little late to bother now isnt it?
Simply put , No ....
Skin in the game is more important than NATO membership. Ukraine doesn’t have to be a NATO member to have NATO bases in Ukraine. All Ukraine has to do is invite NATO members to establish military bases at strategic locations within Ukraine. That should be integral to any settlement. The Ukrainians need to get it out of their heads that Article 5 of the NATO charter is a security guarantee. It’s not because it doesn't obligate any nation to do anything in the event of an attack. It just says, "An attack on one is an attack on all." That means NOTHING.
This woman does not speak in reality
Seems they all say exactly what Russians wants to hear. This leads to the negotiations of Ukraine's capitulation.
It’s a simplest question,because the fate of Ukraine is not depend on themselves,It depends on the position of US and EU even Russia.The geopolitical strategy of Ukraine is focused on maintaining a subtle balance between NATO and Russia.but when the scale beginning to tilt towards any side,The vulnerable balance will be break up.
Any guarantees are pointless because outside of Poland and the Baltics the electorate won’t pay for Ukraine fight for Ukraine or die for Ukraine no matter what the media and politicians say and if they push it the best they could hope for is being voted out and the worst ends very badly
Ukraine has nothing left to bargain with and nato? Does anyone seriously believe they are going to step up?
Ukraine must give up NATO ambitions and accept that crimea and donbass are lost to russia.
Minsk 1 and 2 were just for Ukraine, why they did not Ukraine politics respect them?
They keep talking about Ukraine Russia deal from perspective of Ukraine and NATO but what does Russia have to gain from such "peace plan" right now especially when Ukraine right now is really on the back foot, so freezing the conflict right now benefits them more than Russia. So unless Ukraine and NATO make huge concessions to Russia I don't see the point of this deal for Russia.
Spot on. why don't these so called experts see this.
They know it but saddly they WANT to WIN the conflict they created.
West, Ukraine interest , how about Russias interest.. The strategic planner simply wants a never ending conflict.😂😂
Guatemala should negotiate a deal between America and Russia.
Ukraine will never be in Nato. They are Nato's Cannonfudder 😅
Zelensky consistently claims that Putin opposes peace, but his own actions suggest otherwise. He resists peace because agreeing to any deal could provoke backlash from the Banderite factions. Moreover, he appears to be intoxicated by power and the recognition he currently enjoys. A peace agreement might force him to step aside, losing both his influence and status-something he seems unwilling to risk. As a result, he continues to prolong the conflict, prioritizing his personal interests over a resolution.
Russki Mir ist not Peace
@@Dani-mw2ws RDS?
Paid in rubels?
@@jeriksson7686 RDS?
Your comment can be implemented on puttin as well. Why don't you see a simple fact? Both are wrong. Russia or Ukraine or its western allies everyone is in the wrong here and the only one paying the price is innocent civilians. If you think Russia is some sort of saint who ain't a sinner? We'll think again read Russian history first also same can be applied to other European and American countries. Open your eyes don't pick a side be neutral be wise. Be human and support humanity..
A Nato membership for Ukraine, is not nearly enough. Russia is next door neighbor, and they can be there again before morning coffee.
I see the solution, that the west helps Ukraine having a very large conventional army, 1 mio men, and we help them with armor. The soldiers "needs to stand there", ready. Anything on paper isn't worth anything. With Russia you only have the agreement that's backed up with military power.
This is the exact kind of thinking that got Ukraine into this mess in the first place. By 2022 Ukraine already had the 2nd largest army in Europe. 1 million men? There are not many eligible men left to drag off the streets and military age men don't just grow on trees. Providing them more weapons? Ukraine was given plenty of weapons and they were just delaying the inevitable. Your plan would work if Ukraine was in this with any other neighboring country. But this is Russia we're talking about and they aren't going anywhere.
@@XaberSLyour comment literally has nothing of substance in it.
@@colin8696908more substance than yours
@@colin8696908I think He IS volunteering and will pay from his taxes not mine all this faboulus Things. Good for the dutch friend.
>I see the solution, that the west helps Ukraine having a very large conventional army, 1 mio men, and we help them with armor.
They had 1.2mil army+reserv at 2020. And they was given billions and billions in weapon. Russia force in Ukraine 2022 was around 200k. Now it's around 600-700k.
At 1989 when democracy begins UA have ~52mil population. May 2023 they had on paper ~23. Now - less then 20.
So yeah, great plan - lets mobilize from tiny air 1mil cos 1.2mil worked soo well agains 200k in 2022.
Ukraine already had a security guarantee from the US. That worked out well aye.
God I hate this reporter, he is horrible at asking questions.
Attritional war:Slow will change to fast as the other side lost war.Negotiated peace soon is best for everyone
I love this logic, "the only way we can have peace is by doing the exact thing that Russia invaded us for."
If there is NO NATO membership for Ukraine, then Ukraine have to go nucleral military security route.
How would they be able to do that?
@@marshmello6636With the technical knowledge and uranium reserves on there territory
@@yanivandesompele3413 how do you do that without getting bombed?
@marshmello6636 underground facilities. They already have military factories underground, would not be difficult to construct a lab for nuclear fusion (waste from nuclear energy)
@@yanivandesompele3413 I would think Russia would know the exact location of those underground bases are because of the USSR but I guess we'll all find out in time
After we hard the news on hypersonic Mach10 Oreshnik, two peole have disappeared from the net and channels! NATO Chief Mr Niceman Rutte and the former NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg! No one has heard of them. Both seem to be busy with early Jule (Christmas) Parties in November!
lol, 😂 she didn’t answer the question asked!! Just bullsh** around about Russian empire and bla bla bla! The question was what will it benefit NATO !
The interview with Fabrice Pothier was highly interesting and impressive. I've rarely heard from or seen anybody where it's so obvious how experienced of a strategist and negotiator he is.
Why no one is talking about what Ukraine did before 2014 and what is the cause of russian attack ?
can you elaborate what ukrain did before 2014？
@@johny-ql4wn you should learn the back round instead of just deciding based on Western news which shows one-sided news, i have friends in both Ukraine and Russia, did get all information from them
Asking if Russia will accept Ukraine's NATO membership is just ridiculous, because we all know the answer.
Deployment of nato troops in response to Russian aggression would mean all of nato would be in a war with Russia that none of us want
Why your face is always like you are sitting on a spike? Kind of crying😂
Respect treaties and agreements. It's so simple 😂
She contradicted herself. She claimed that 3rd country military presence in Ukraine would deter Z. Then, she gave UK maritime patrols in 2021 as example of 3rd country military presence. It obviously didn’t deter Z.
Ukraine was forced to give up nukes - because that was one condition for its independence. The control and command of the nukes were always in Moscow.
There is no reason to feel sorry for Ukraine. It was its choice to backstab Russia, for a bribe from the US. It was its choice to use the US to fight Russia. It played that game and lost. The Ukraine of 1991 is gone, what may be left will be unviable and dependent on EU aid, and the US will do what it always does, move on and hand their failed project to the EU.
Just get over it.
Ukraine was NOT forced to give up those nukes. They could not use them, and they did not want them. The concern back then was to make sure that abandoned Russian nuclear material didn't make its way to terrorists and/or evil dictators. The narrative you are pushing is a myth.
This lady speaks good English,very Ukrainian
The only way to prevent Putin coming back for another special op in Ukraine is to ensure that Ukraine is fast tracked into NATO. The Ukrainian army has fought for this and deserve membership .they have proved that they have a very good army.
Ukraine in nato is what started this war.
That's what started this. Have you just been born?
Don't you understand that once the war is over there will be Ukraine no more?
"Ukraine is to ensure that Ukraine is fast-tracked into NATO" It is exactly what NATO did during the conference in Munich in February 2022. Are you blind or ignorant?
Fix the problem by doubling down on it.. genius move! 😂🤡
They have superb army.
They are a total liability.
Lesia is 100% correct
Ok, Do you think US allow Mexico to join any military block that's opposition US ?
What is this woman yappin about
Delusional girl
Budapest Memorandum was supposed to be that, US and UK didn't follow through on their promise when Putin broke it 2014
According to the last NATO expert he said how to support and protect Ukraine. When you trying to expand NATO to Ukraine, this conflict spin out and reach most probably Poland and those 3- tiny Chihuahua countries before the end of this year...🤔
How do these 2 guests become experts
Ukraine needs things about own people no way too joint NATO because Russia what gives NATO to Ukraine’s ordinary people no man power no money for fighting with Russia its be better just peace talks 😊
DW sold us that Russia has lost the war and has no weapons left to continue the war so what’s happening here again? 😅😅😅
Asking “what’s acceptable for Russia” might sound like a sensible question, but as the 2nd guy points out, let’s start with Ukraine
There is a phrase that goes : beggars cant be choosers
@@AnkomaDjed but Zelensky is a pro.
Lol in order for there to be a deal both sides need to agree. Did you forget common sense? What makes you think russia will agree? And if russia doesn't agree What makes you think they will stop? And if they don't stop what makes you think ukraine will be safe?
Your suggestion is putting the cart before the horse.
We shouldnt be involved to begin with.
This thumbnail picture and title are entirely misleading, after what happened these last couple days there will be no deals
if Ukraine joins nato then the territory that Russia has taken will never be Ukrainian again.
Ukraine claims that bilateral security guarantees will help them deter Z. At the same time, they claim that they got security guarantees in Budapest memo.
Budapest memo didn’t deter Z. So bilateral security guarantees are use. Even NATO membership is useless, if Budapest memo was really validly binding.
This discussion is full of ignorance, very frustrating.
Zelenskyy should apologize and leave Ukraine immediately for humankind
Putin might consider that Ukraine joining NATO as long as American pulls back from NATO……
thats your problems
They r Dreaming. 😂😂😂
The west cant feed its own population... I wonder how are they gonna protect Ukraine 😂😂
Fabrice: lets give a fu** what interests Russia has... well... if we all do so - is this a good thing?
If you want to talk about the NATO for Ukraine, get an upper hand in the battle field first, otherwise it’s just a sheer delusion.
Every guest to this host should insist to have all questions submitted in advance so that short direct answers can be prepared in order to safeguard this host from constantly interrupting each guest. And for the guests to indicate in advance also, that they are prepared to walk off camera mid interview if the host carries out such boorish behaviour. Seriously, the guests are there because they have professional opinions to share, not to be steam rolled by a host that only puts himself front & center
3:44 ⚠️ ONE MORE TIME ⚠️
UKR didn’t own the nukes put there by USSR. Possession is 9/10 of law? Fine. But in 90s, UKR has neither the launch codes nor capacity to maintain the stockpile. Nukes are rather sensitive, no?
Ms Ogryzko is either ignorant or deliberately hiding the fact that NATO has specific prerequisites for an invitation, much less actual entry. UKR has been trying since the 90s & continually failed to meet them (eg, political stability & no corruption).
It is entertaining to see how funny theses so called experts talk. Nobody dare to look at the reality.
Ukraine has lost the war 😂😂
West bitched Ukraine. And Ukraine was dumb enough to fight Russia. No way back no way front that i s the situation.
You are way out of line Mr interviewer, if you want to answer the questions yourself why invite an expert.
Oh yeah then what? We going to miss war, life is so boring without wars?
Sometimes it is a matter of scale.
Zelensky's security concerns are obviously important. Let us remember that US academics, politicians and other experts predicted the war based on Western behaviour and policy which completely disregarded Russia's security concerns. Could this war have been avoided from starting with savvy diplomacy? We will never know since that ship has sailed and sunk. Moreover, despite promises of support and cheerleading from the West, Ukraine never got the support it required for victory. The present situation is very sad for Ukraine whose population has suffered considerable pain and loss. Let us hope that a satisfactory solution can be reached. Regarding NATO membership for Ukraine, if membership is denied, especially after the West wanted to expand NATO to Ukraine in the first place, that would be a disappointing end for this tragedy. Let us hope that after so much sacrifice, Ukraine gets a satisfactory result.
Fabrice Pothier, i will suggest that if you care so much for you to go and help Ukraine on the front lines, they need help over there, and the people interest should be peace, not saying lets do what i want and what i think is best after all there's more than one player and the decision can bring WW3 and idk you but last WW we break records on people that died all over the world.... ask your self you want to break records again... is not a record to be proud of, and yes, Russia was the aggressor, but this is calling for the destruction of what we all know..... if you have family, think if they will be with you if WW3 start and for how long they will be with you if it happens..... de-escalate!!!
Wonderful
I think peace ✌️ deal should be conditional upon Russia 🇷🇺 will never attack Ukraine 🇺🇦 in the future, if Russia breaks peace deal, Ukraine should be automatically part of NATO. if NATO still exist, if not then USA should be responsible for Ukraine security.
USA and UK are already responsible for Ukraine security after Russia violated the last security agreement. It isn’t enough. Ukraine must have their own military power to defend themselves.
It is so rude to interrupt the speaker(
Use your own money if you want the war to continue.
Stop begging for money from other countries...
Europe has been reminded of the power of Russia and will only grow from now on. Why aggrivate the situation?? Zelensky still thinks he is a comedian while people are dying.
What power of those drunks?
How about both Ukraine and Russia are invited to join NATO and EU. It will end all hostilities and they'll be able to negotiate as Allies. Think about it
Yeah.. but then how will weapons get sale
😂😂 You are funny.
Russia actually asked to join NATO not so long ago, but they were refused.
@@kamilhorvat8290 Russia never applied. Putin did not want to stay in line and meet the criteria like every other country. Besides nobody would let abusive husband to get into women's shelter.
Russia applied for Nato alliance in past but other nato members denied membership to Russia Google it I am not lying. Truth and facts.
Nostrovia
SLAVA UKRAINE 🇺🇦 Philadelphia USA 🇺🇸
Please don't worry about what Russia wants
Have you not been listening....neither are giving up anything regardless of what the President elect says
NATO physically strong but mentally weak.
NATO strong organization but weak leadership..
what made them mentally weak?... Their wealth to lose.
@gtaraya it's their leadership that make them weak on how they responding.
@gtaraya @gtaraya it's their leadership that make them weak on how they responding.
@@GolDRoger-fx2fp weak leader, strong leader doesnt matter. whoever is sitting there is dealing with someone with a nuke. even if its mutually assured, EU will lose more as they are wealthy and comfortable now compared to Russia's potato economy.
@gtaraya mental control our muscles that perform physically.
The same with leadership that control the Armed Forces that do action.
Weak leadership only make Armed Forces respond weaker.
Did you get what i mean?.
She wants NATO membership but till that happens she wants a Korea like frozen conflict. Russia will accept none. Kyiv has two options...either be a Russia friendly state or continue to fight with unreliable US support and eventually become defunct. She should be negotiating for EU membership not NATO.
Is no more 52 million of happy living people Ukraine. Is big rich land so called Ukraine.
It's not guarantee. Never trust Putin!
Words on paper are not a guarantee. Military power for Ukraine is a guarantee.
IT SEEMS THAT THE RUSSIANS HAVE PLENTY OF MONEY FOR WEAPONS.
I think the panelists asked the right questions and the guests did not really convince with their answers (and no, "Putin bad, Nato good", is not a good answer). There cannot be a negotiation if you keep bringing NATO membership, we have to remember that the reason Putin attacked Ukraine was because NATO/EU membership was being discussed! So you have to be realistic here and drop that option, there ARE alternatives, but it your are a warmonger any peaceful agreement is not in your interest.
Putin attacked Ukraine in 2014 when Ukraine was neutral and not joining NATO. How did neutrality work out?
Russia already borders multiple NATO members. Don’t believe Putin’s lies.
Disgraceful!
@@nigelgarrett7970 there were talks already of joining NATO and the EU, long before that, you just have to pay attention, it is readily available in Wikipedia too.
But to answer your question more specifically, it all boils down to NATO: Russia occupied Crimea in 2014, yes, but it was only after the Ukrainian Revolution, when the then president Yanukovich was removed. Under his presidency the Ukrainian parliament voted to abandon the goal of NATO membership and re-affirm Ukraine's neutral status. Removing him was a coup, it was with the goal to continue the NATO and EU membership, and this of course is a red line for Putin, so this marks the beginning of the Russian-Ukraine war.
@@fede0101 The talks for joining NATO started in 2008 and were suspended in 2010.
If you are so keen on the will of the Ukrainian parliament, that was the body that opted to remove the president. Why did they do this? Was it because the president went against the will of the parliament by cancelling talks about a trade agreement with the EU and instead started talks about a trade deal with Russia? Was this the "coup" that ended with negotiations between the parliament and the president? So where exactly was the NATO involvement then? And if you bother to follow the 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest you would know that NATO was far from unanimous about NATO membership for Ukraine. In particular, France and Germany blocked Ukraine from moving straight to a Membership Action Plan. So it was by no way certain at that time that NATO membership would happen for Ukraine.