WHICH ONE IS CHEAPER? 600-HP 408 STROKER VS 600-HP JUNKYARD 4.8L TURBO. FULL PRICING FOR EACH.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- BIGGER VS BOOST! IS A TURBO LS REALLY DIRT CHEAP TO BUILD? HOW MUCH DOES A JUNKYARD TURBO 4.8L REALLY COST? HOW MUCH DOES A 600-HP 408 STROKER COST TO BUILD? WHAT DO I NEED TO MAKE 600 HP WITH MY TURBO 4.8L? IS THERE A REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT? ARE CUBIC INCHES REALLY THE ANSWER? WHAT IS THE LEAST EXPENSIVE WAY TO MAKE 600 HP WITH AN LS? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I DID A COST COMPARISON BETWEEN THE BUILD UP OF A 600+ HP 408 STROKER AND A 600+ HP 4.8L TURBO LS. CHECK OUT ALL THE COSTS THEY HAD IN COMMON, THEN HOW MUCH YOU HAVE TO SPEND TO REACH THE 600-HP MARK.
The thing I love the most about this channel is that it’s focused on “normal guys” like me and so many others. Of course it’s nice to watch those ultra expensive motors and all the stuff related in other channels, but the content here is more achievable and very informative.
The machine work is the hidden killer on an engine rebuild. Easy to blow the budget with hot tanking the block, align honing the bores, zero decking, balancing everything, etc. etc.
No need for any of that on an ls, these are so good even on high mileage, pressure wash at home and slap some new bearings in it and run it.
@timothycarey3883 not true. Some of these things will be required after certain modifications like changing to arp main studs instead of bolts 🤷🏾♂️
@@TEsko1017 no body changes to arp main studs on ls engines, the rods will fail long before crank or main bolts, ls have 6 bolt mains and skirted block. Arp head studs maybe, but people run tons of power thru stockers. 600hp for an ls can be done with cam springs pushrods and a china turbo and run for years with a good tune.
@@AEtrane but all of tht stuff has to be done to really kno the history of the engine and start with a clean slate
Add to that the 4.8 will have better street manners, better fuel economy.
Of course you cannot deny the 408 will have great tyre ripping torque from right down low.
"the 408 will have great tyre ripping torque from right down low." BINGO!!! 0 to speed limit on the street....
I built my 5.3's turbo kit as 'frugally' possible: I have under $1500 into it. Granted I made my own x-over and downpipe, but a no-fab kit would be ~$2000. Turbo can be done a lot cheaper whereas a stroker is largely a fixed cost. Even using name-brand stuff will be cheaper.
The up side to a stroker is you have instant torque, which is fun to impress people with instant burnouts. Then again, a simple 454 or 496 would do the same for a lot less.
@hydrocarbon8272 you gotta love a big blocks torque!!!
So, what you’re saying is I should turbo my 496?
Yes, a 454 can and does do that but the pain in the wallet makes it prohibitively expensive on the back end 🥺 6-7 mpg is just 🤢🤮 when filling up. Though, I was able to buy an entire truck for $700 with a bad running 454, surface the heads, buy gaskets, all for under $1000. I’m not upset with how it turned out, just sad about the fuel mileage. A 4l80e is in the works, so maybe 10 mpg could be had 🙏🏻
@@orangetruckmanbelieve it or not but get ya a quest or an old spread bore with smaller primaries and the 480e overdrive together will get ya 12-15 or squad-jet
@@yeahididit9054 I got 17-18 out of a 454 at 80 mph .. t56 6 speed and 3.73 gear. And a quadrajet.
Later I did up a holley and blow through with a small s475. It was amazing
I’d take the stroker, finishing my stroker build now. I just left twin turbo and want to return to my roots. No other reason. Hard to beat the sound and torque curve of a NA stroker. But hard to beat the price and efficiency of a turbo
Hard to beat a stock bottom end 6.0 with a cam and springs. Turbos are great, but the associated plumbing clutters up the engine bay, heats the shit out of everything & makes everything more difficult to work on. You can make 400HP to the tire for not a lot of money. 400WHP is really fun in a 3500lb. or less vehicle.
Why u gotta have a stroker with a turbo lol!!
@@joshgessinger4509 Got to have a stroker and two turbos!!!
Better to have blower and a stroker.
Don’t forgot the hidden machine shop costs to build the stroker kit, and the fact that most machine shops are going to have your parts for around 4-6 months even if they tell you it’ll be 2 weeks. 😂
the machine costs were part of the costs section
I remember when 408 shortblocks were $3599, now they're $5000 or so. Total buzzkill.
And rotating assemblies used to run around 1200
Richard, love the Soup-Nuts, bottom line approach! Well done sir!
Absolutely turbo. Better fuel economy and street manners around town, more affordable… that’s enough for me
The obvious answer is to turbo the 408, but as a daily driver the turbo 4.8 is going to be better than the 408 stroker I think.
Great video! I’ve seen big hp cars lose at the stop light nationals to lower hp cars due to traction, yes. Roll racing is fine for high hp cars, but on the street a 450hp light older car usually wins most races to 80 mph and a good old 350 Chevy with afr/trickflow heads gets the job done
I agree and am wrestling with this as I have a 6.0 LS in the car now with a decent 228R cam. I may just upgrade my heads intake and maybe a cam upgrade. I have traction issues but once I resolve that(close now) I am sure I will want another 50 hp at least. I am making about 350 ish est at the wheels now with a 4l80.
@@TheBDD1970depending on box and whether in 4wd or street car but a 6 litre with a 228r is more like 400whp.
94 s10 ss mild 6L LS minor enhancements a real blast on the street
I would do the 408, much less clutter in the engine compartment, more room to work on it in the future.
The cost breakdown is tremendously helpful. This video will likely be a decision maker for many.
I built a 402 stroker for my daily driver because the motor was blown and everything inside it was junk anyway so might as well make a stroker if I'm replacing the parts anyway
5.3 L33, tbss intake,706 heads and a GT45 turbo in front of a TH400 in my s10 and I’m happy
If you have a truck that's any bigger than a Single cab you want the stroker and you can keep factory heads like a 799 with some minor work, big cam and springs and you'll make amazing torque and gain efficency down low. Sorta wonder if I should have spent the extra 1k for the stroker kit for my 6l build for my truck. Decided against it for longetivity reasons and I'm gonna turbo my built motor
Turbo because tuning antilag and other turbo adjustability is honestly just fun
not mentioned is the maintenance being so much better on the stroker, not being as worried about as much loss of power as temps go up in the summer, less heat creep in the engine bay cooking your stock PCM, no oil lines or coolant feeds to a turbo that can leak and strand you
I would definitely go with the turbo!! No question about it!
So here's what I'd love to see, mainly because it's what I plan to put in my 65 skylark. 5.3 or 4.8, cam(of course), twin eBay turbos(budget lol), carb intake with an Aces killshot and the goal is 600hp fast spooling setup
Good one Richard no junk yard intercoolers and build the trans first
Turbo 4.8 is cheaper.
But a 408 says wow then turbo it.
Talked to my machinist today. Gave him the news. He got a smile on his face and then said 408 will make a lot of power, which is exactly what Richard says.
It's got a "408 and an 88". And yes, it makes a lot of power.
Packaging a Turbo is an add'l expense, challenge that NA bypasses. CenTex Machine shop tab $1900 3yrs ago to deck, bore .010, clearance, balance w/clutch an alum 6.2 stroker to 6.8
Kit was $2800. Other supplies, parts $2900.
100 hrs to hounddog stuff,remove, dis & re- assemble, install . Chassis dyno $600.
I would love the power out if the stroker.. but if your just wanting 600 hp numbers. Get the 4.8
If you look for a donor vehicle, your pocketbook will thank you too on the 4.8
I'll take a 408 - and the turbo! Cost be damned!
Richard, if you started selling a 4.3 V6 cam , that would be SO AWESOME. All the aftermarket ones are SO EXPENSIVE.
Turbo FTW. With a properly sized turbo, you are going to get more TQ down low than the stroker. That wins races.
Plus the turbo kit can be transferred to a 5.3 or 6.0.
Turbo all day everyday due to the adjustability of the piwer curve. It's easier to adjust the power to your traction than find traction for too much power.
I pretty much kept track of every single nickle and dime i spent, including shipping/tax, spark plugs, oil, gaskets, etc and this is what I came up with for my LS1 turbo in my 99 Trans Am:
turbo setup (ebay GT45), this includes all the gauges, fuel system, injectors, random fittings, piping, etc: $3105.
Engine/cam/springs/pushrods/re-seal (you don't have to do this): $2064
Transmission/suspension including 4l80e swap, torque arm, safety loop, torque converter: $3411
I am tuning it myself so $499 for HP Tuners (for now). Doing it all over I could definitely save some money in spots and probably knock $1000-$2000 off all this but i went pretty cheap with a lot of this (I should own stock in DNA motorsports by now) but I think this is pretty representative of overall costs to really set this up and get it running in a car.
Realistically I should also drop ~$3000 in a driveshaft and ford 9 inch before this ever gets near a track but those of you that don't have F-body's may not have to worry about a rear end made of duct tape and chicken wire...
Lol
I'm sure the 408 exhaust would sound better.
But for a truck, I go diesel.
Thanks Richard! I am wrestling this decision and this helps. I am not sure the turbo plumbing in my second gen is worth it but man it sure would be fun.
Stock 6.0 with turbo sounds like a good compromise if you're on a budget.
If I were to write a check for the parts it takes to build the 408, I would build a 427 with an LSX block. Then boost it later 😉
I just hope my 408 can get close to 600hp N/A being low compression. Procharger should help it out down the road, but that's a few years off.
You could also take the rotating assembly out of a 4.8 and with new Pistons and use it in a stock 6.0 L and make a poor man's 327. Definitely we need to balance the crank with all that extra weight added by the 4-in piston. That would be a fun build. It definitely would be nostalgic.
coming-but I already did a 4.8L crank in a 6.2L block
With what result?
@@arthurbirt2094 He has a video on it
I couldn't decide, so I did both.
Hey Richard, look into the Denmah VS Racing turbo with cold side kit. Real cost effective and comes with everything you need for less than $1,000.
Matt does good stuff over there
This kit is the best bang for your buck, running well on my rig. With the 7875 cast turbo my total was just under $900. Comes with Intercooler, piping,couplers, clamps, Bov, and WG oil feed line, and turbo gasket.
8.1l stroker all day😊
Great turnkey video for hot rodding overview in 2024!
Should've done a carb version of the stroker. I look though my old car magazines and it's crazy how much parts have went up. I didn't make as much back then but it seems performance parts are way farther away today then they were back 15 years ago. Comparatively speaking......
I love my 5.3! but my 408 kicks ass! 408 baby!!!
I think I'm going to dip my toe into turbos with my SBC in my truck, I'm a welder fabricator by trade so all the fan work isn't an issue I figure I just need to find an aftermarket TBI setup because going blow thru carb sounds like a nightmare of issues vs just tuning a EFI setup, even tho I've never done it I'm sure I can flounder my way thru it enough to get it to run half way decent. The new plug n play mega squirt for 94/95 mustang looks awesome, it litterly plugs into factory connections and has a butt load of features, auto trans too, it's capable of doing about everything thing can think of and then some and is very expandable like doing traction control it's pretty sweet but the price isnt cheap its around $1100, that's steep but if that's what your looking for it's money well spent I think. Especially where there is no installation mods needed just unplug the factory ECU and plug it in done for basic function, obviously it's more involved when you start expanding it but installing a Holley is not plug n play that I know of and the old mega squirt needed an expensive unit to integrate it to the factory system.
Given that my application is probably gonna live 95% of its life street driving and highway cruising and reasonable fuel economy is desirable for that, im leaning towards turbo.
At 5:34 you stated it would take 600 to 750 horsepower to have a good intercooler. I would guess this is from all the excitement of thinking of more horsepower. The beauty of the turbo setup is the power is always there waiting to be used while cruising around smoothly until you need it, then it is on.. Not so with the stroker kit.
I stated it would take 600-750 to have a good intercooler? That doesn't sound right
@richardholdener1727 I think you said HP instead of dollars. Everyone knows what you meant.
I do have a suggestion, as you've mentioned it, but I don't remember a test. How about 87 turbo testing? Street cars and trucks could save coin on 87 instead of 91/93, or upping everything and going E85. It'd be a way to show how much power you're leaving on the table by saving on fuel, and give you an opportunity to say any changes on initial build. Like comp ratio, intercooler at X psi, etc...
The 408 would be a way wilder ride I would think, very rowdy and a ton of fun, the throttle response is a consideration too. but there's prob more downsides to a big stroker, the turbo setup could be made to have good drivability and fuel economy but big power anytime on tap, and way cheaper. And if you blow up the 4.8 your back in action for under a grand and a couple scraped knuckles vs a few more thousand dollars and weeks to repair the 408, and with the 408 how are you going to get those whooshing noises? Ideally toss the turbo on the 408!
Trapping 134 in my 5000lb 4.8 truck currently ss2 cam and a 1.25ar 7875 at 14psi
SCHWEEET!
@@scotttimpany2845 translation = He is making about 800 hp using a turbo and he is loving it.
@@TheBDD1970I'd say over 900 crank and closer to a thou if it's legit 5000lb race weight at 134 mph.
Rich you also need to try your cams with an LSA and show how they do. Like to see some more LSA content on your channel especially with Holly black hearts shorty cast manifolds.
the cam works with any blower-boost just adds to what is there
In this comparison your getting a brand new motor in the 408. If you rebuilt the 4.8 right to actually last at those power levels i think it would be a different story. Although if you built the 4.8 600hp would not be the goal and would be making 2-3 hundy more than the 408 so 🤷
Did you include balancing the rotating assembly in your machine shop estimate? That is another significant expense consideration. Great content!
some assemblies come balanced, otherwise included in the machine work costs
Lol, I was thinking this video was going to be a baby turbo LS vs Mopar 408 (360 stroker). I'm guessing 408 LS vs LA is probably similarly but you have to dump $2-3k into good mopar heads.
I actually want to build a 318 turbo to piss off the 318 haters. I figure a 318 turbo has a slight advantage over a 408 due to gas mileage.
Well I did the 408, and it wasn’t enough. So now I’m putting a TVS 2650 on top to see if a belt driven intake will help 😂
those R good intakes
Please use cubic inches for all displacements on your channel. It is more precise than a liter. Speaking imperial and metric in the same sentence is like reading print and cursive in the same sentence.
LS motors are not designated in cubic inches from the factory-but the stroker motors are.
I mean, I'm a cheapskate so the 4.8 turbo appeals to me because it has lower up-front costs and - I assume - better fuel economy when cruising around at part-throttle. I just don't know if that assumption is remotely correct!
it is
I think one of the coolest looks is the dual torque storm superchargers, and probably can make killer power but phewww that would get expensive.
If im driving a street car, 408 wins. Look at the graphs. 408 has more torque throughout the graph. The pulls start 1000 rpm earlier on the 408 than the turbo motor AND the 408 spins to a higher rpm than the turbo. Probably 1500 to 1800 more usable rpm than the turbo motor. For street, this just makes a car more enjoyable. Everyone loves a street car with big power and instant throttle response. Waiting for your power to finally arrive at the party......sucks.
408 and a blower would be awesome!
I already have th 6.0 and i already have a set of 243 heads that i got for basically free so the 408 sounds awesome to me atm
Great video Richard!
I will soon be doing a my daughter 84 cutlass supreme with ring gap, stage 2 turbo cam and a gt45 or bigger ebay turbo. should be a fun project 😅
I have a 6.0l with 823 heads, kinda thinking id just rather slap a turbski on that bad boy!! lol
408 all the way then go with a 72 mm maybe 68 mm turbos then you can make some power!! Just be sure to use good parts so it will last at around 15 lb of boost should be the ticket
No replacement for displacement. As you can tell from that statement I'm old school
I vote for a turbo 4.8 or 5.3! Good daily driving manners and fuel mileage are things that get my focus.
I would turbo my cheap 4.8 and try to tune it for better gas mileage. It would be cheaper to run than the 408.
Your gas mileage with a turbo is gonna stink! Why? Wooooosh! Vrooooooooooooooooooooom! Woooooosh!
@@scotttimpany2845 let's say I'm doing a 300 miles road trip on cruise control. Would it be so different?
@@olivierroy1301 Well... mostly likely. But really? Vrooooooooom. Wooooooosh!
I went through the same sort of breakdown but looking for 500hp out of my sbc between going stroker or centrifugal. Ended up going stroker just because it’s my daily and I didn’t want to add extra moving parts.
If you where building a turbo e85 truck to tow your race car to the track with, how would you set the engine up differently to handle the non stop stress that comes with towing. Has anyone tried this? The ecoboost does it but I’ve not seen the big turbo V8s doing it I wonder why?
He’s covered this several times in other videos, just search. Many people have done this.
Can i kick off a here's my 600hp build :P
deka 80's 370$, 525 walboro fp 200$, cast "denmah" 870$ All @ vsracing, ls3 valve springs fbmp 60$, pqy regulator 32$, gaskets and studs like he listed, holley, termi x, ring gap replace broken or worn out stuff/razor blade rebuild, run manifolds and get
Add a good transmission to either. Few gm stock units are up to the task of even this hp level.
agree
Thanks man, amd I'm gonna buy that call from you!!!
cam?
Wow. The 408 really wrung out the wallet. 😳
I would love to hear/see what you think of and can do with the Nissan 5.6
U said horsepower instead of dollars twice 😂😂😂
A direct correlation, nearly interchangeable words in hotrodding.
I didn't watch yet but you need to figure out mpg for long term cost lol. If I wanna cruise on $100-200 a weekend it can't last 100 miles. Need to figure out the best power and 20+mpg like a coyote can do I guess. I've heard of twin turbo in a obs f150 doing 25mph+ cruising. That's why I love a trans like the 6r80 with a standalone ECU and than you can run carb, sniper, w.e and have the best of all worlds. 406 stroker sounds like 5-10mpg. I'm sorry but just can't do it especially if it's premium.
which flavor makes more usable torque? wouldn't the 4.8 be more satisfying as a daily?
4.2 Atlas. Easier to work on, easier to add a turbo.
The 408 might be more expensive but its a new build. Versus a junkyard engine. A fair comparison would be both engines fully rebuilt.
the only reason the 408 was new was because it was required for the additional displacement, like adding the turbo to the 4.8L. A new motor is not necessary for 600-hp 4.8L-just ring gap.
Option NOS for me cause I already got nitrous stuff, now i just need a decent engine...
Hmmm street stroker and highway or 1/4 I’d say turbo small engine
I'm surprised you suggest head studs on the 4.8 turbo setup. I thought the current recommendation was factory bolts up to pretty high power levels?
you can run stock bolts-I have in the past, but recommend studs
Man, you ought to play arounf with a stock dodge LA 318
I have a 360 Magnum
Turbo all day. 600vrs600 until we get to the track 😂 prob could have used stock cam on 4.8😅
Ya or a big turbo and make 1500+ to the wheels all day.
Part deux- Carb prices
for me its all about fitting it in a 77ish chevy van but from what im reading is all of the outside dimensions of the motors are pretty much the same and will all fit where the other one sat??? so im just waiting to see the ultimate steal deal on a ls/6l90 pair on facebook marketplace...ive been checking every day just waiting. leaning towards a 383 stroker
Turbo for sure
Why not use a 6.2? With just a cam change and a Comp Cam you made 567hp. You could up the compression and be at 600hp for under $2500.
a junkyard 4.8L costs a few hundred dollars-an aluminum 6.2L costs thousands
@richardholdener1727 average price in the midwest is $1800 - $2500 for a 6.2
4.8/5.3 with a turbo is cheaper and will have better street makers, hard to beat...
Its turbo 4.8 for me all day.
If you want a racer.. turbo. If you want something thats gets your car fast but not a racer ..408
Not sure if you mention it but I'm halfway through the video and I'm wondering that all the extra weight you're adding for the turbo build? How much weight is that approximately? On the 408 stroker you're not really adding weight
this video was about cost and not weight
Good thing I have about half of that already
dollars = Horse Power
Stroker NA will sound a lot nicer 👌
The real answer: TORQSTORM
6.0 turbos oohh yeah!!!
How does this compare to the turbo 3800?
Turbo is ALWAYS cheaper
I mean you could spend more on a turbo but you definitely can do it cheaper with a cheap turbo
Sure, but a stroker kit is basically a full rebuild. So you're getting a new motor. You could do turbo on the cheap. But if you're engine fails and you're stuck with a rebuild anyway or worse. So it's basically buy once cry once. No idea which I'd prefer.
@@craigquannbut with a junkyard 4.8/5.3, you don’t have the spend thousands for rebuilding. Just get another one for 500 bucks.
Plus more torque
I would pick a turbo 6 liter
One thing I would like to see I don’t know if you’ve done it but I would love to see a 6.0 with some 48 heads and a cam budget build street motor something you could drive every day yet makes a lot of power with mostly stock parts I would like to see it on fuel injection and dual plane intake if possible
Because the only other motor I’m going to build for my son is because I know how to build. It is a 400 small block with some bowtie heads and probably a bracket master cam. I just know that combination works.
I have 6.0Ls with 706 (4.8L) head vids up
Looking back at some of your stock cam turbo 4.8 videos, it seems a junkyard 4.8 with a ebay gt45 around 12-15 psi should make 600 engine dyno hp
they make over 300 hp NA so 15 will get you there
@@richardholdener1727 that was exactly my point. The junkyard 4.8 didn't need any expensive aftermarket parts. A gt45 and 15ish psi from your previous videos will do 600hp.
I take issue with these tests. That turbo is far too large and will not behave the same in the engine dyno as it would in the car while driving.
The turbo choice is actually yours (since we are just basing this off costs) and 600 hp can be made with a GT45 or even smaller turbo. The turbo (once spooled) behaves exactly the same in the car as far as power production. Pick the turbo you want to achieve your goal
408 LS can be made form both engines
408