Will Brexit lead to a political revolution?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ม.ค. 2025
- Conservative MP Tom Tugendhat and Labour MP Lisa Nandy discuss the revolutionary qualities of Brexit - and how it could change the UK’s political system forever. (Subscribe: bit.ly/C4_News...)
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I like how you're interviewing members of the two mainstream parties on the question of how they can change the current political landscape. There's a very simple solution to this problem that they'll never tell you because it'll mean the end of their careers.
Get rid of the ' first past the post' voting system and allow new parties into Parliament.
@steven clark just talk, hoping the public will forget
Get Rid of all Politicians, replace with experienced business people.
I totally agree with you Paul, I can't see it happening because some of these nonentities Will be straight out the door, the fiasco that has gone on over brexit has shown this two party system has failed completely, democracy is dead with it.
We had a vote on changing the voting system from first past the post. The electorate rejected the change. Proportional representation is a means of giving small political parties influence beyond the size of their share of the vote. See Israel. It becomes more difficult to remove a political party in power under proportional representation. The first pass the post means that political corruption cannot be hidden. There is always the danger that the party in power could be removed at the next election and the corruption exposed. The new party in power gets to inspect the books.
The BREXIT party is new political party. This is a step in the right direction. They are sweeping up disaffected Tories from the Tory party.
@@WELLBRAN I won't got a political memory like an elephant.
I am German and always admired the debates in the house of Commons, bcs the British political system is so much more democratic in comparison with the boring debates in the parliament in my country. I feel pretty ashamed how the EU delegation negotiated the 'deal' with UK, and feel pretty embarrassed that a super smart lady from Germany (nobody knows her here) messed it up. The root cause of all mess was and is that the EU negotiators wanted to win and dominate every nitty-gritty detail over the Brits, while UK at the same time simply wanted to define the future of relationship (that's what the two MPs in this interview were talking about). Again ... I feel veryyy sorry. EU will be surprised about the result of the elections held in 27 countries in May. They totally missed and disregarded the frustration about EU institutions everywhere.
You did have a vote. MPs voted overwhelmingly for Article 50
They voted to leave with an easy deal, better than remain. The party manifestos promised a deal.
Now it seems they cannot deliver it.
@@seriousmaran9414 The rest of Europe is under no obligation to give you the BREXIT you want, any promises made by the tories were hollow, if you believed them then that's your failure. Even if we do BREXIT, there will be years of talks in which all the other possibilities that have been sold by politicians will fail to happen.
@@seriousmaran9414 is that what the voting slip said?
That same parliament also voted against TM deal and no deal...
@@seriousmaran9414 Anyone who believes Leavers bought a round of lies, the same with Donald Trump in the USA. Leaving is a form of suicide. If the UK goes, Scotland is going to leave the United Kingdom. Even Northern Ireland might choose to remain in the EU. Welcome to Little England!
Better to revoke Article 50 and have a REAL debate about WTF the people really want and how they want it. I suspect a second vote on Leave Or Remain, Remain would win UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES.
Personally, I think the UK should remain and obtain concessions from the EU. For instance, as an island, land area is limited. However, I think the EU is quite Done with the antics of the UK at this point.
Edit: here is a link . . . . . th-cam.com/video/-IL2XwSkFJQ/w-d-xo.html
Nothing less than the complete breakdown of both parties is essential.Talking about 'new'leaders is futile when we need to see the backs of you both
Yes. You have absolutely no idea. The masses are already swarming.
Lioncash. Well said. You have read my thoughts and so many others. They have really gone and done it this time.
I’m so scared of “the masses”. 😂😂😂
What masses?
I see few hundreds users abusing caps lock on internet, and when Farage organizes a march few dozens show up, and they all look like coming from the same retirement home :D
@@ChristianIce I think they mean the People's Vote March on Saturday. Surely that must be what they mean.
@@SaturnusDK there is a blockade on the m5 on 29th..
Oh! This male MP is full of BS; he talks endlessly and says absolutely NOTHING. He never answers any of the questions; a skilled politician!
He speaks of revolution. He is right that Parliament cannot admit this.
The political crisis we face is not to do with Brexit, or sovereignty, the EU or our international partners - it's domestic. For generations two parties have dominated British politics, while having policies which are almost exact deadringers for one another. These two parties have been free to get sloppy, to get detached, to stop caring what the people who voted for them actually wanted. They didn't need to worry whether their voters would hold them to account - because who were they going to vote for? The other lot? Even if they did lose an election, they were practically guaranteed to win the one after that, so they could just keep taking it in turns to bleed the country dry. And while Labour has been gobbling up the middle ground (leaving its old working class voters scrambling for somebody, ANYBODY to represent their interests) the Conservatives have been running to the hard right, for fear of getting outflanked by UKIP.
Meanwhile, the office of the Prime Minister has grown in seniority and has been vested with far more power than its historical counterparts. Now, we essentially have a President - but not one who is elected by the people, or even by Parliament, but instead is simply appointed by the largest party, according to the internal, usually rather opaque and baroque rules of that party, whichever it happens to be. The Prime Minster has absorbed responsibilities for making Britain's foreign policy, for setting the tone for the national debate, and deciding what Parliament will vote on and when. Frankly, when you see it laid out in front of you, it's more of a surprise that things didn't blow up spectacularly *before* now.
Brexit isn't actually a relevant issue AT ALL. The issue for generations has been that our "democratic" system is nothing of the kind. It's a hand-me-down from the 1800s, from a time when the mere *idea* that all people should have a vote and a say in the future of their country was *highly* controversial. We can't blame the EU for the screwiness of our system. That's on us. It's high time we fixed it. An end to the hegemony of the Labour and Conservative Parties, and the beginning of a new Democratic Britain, with proportional representation, ensuring that the governments of our future will actually speak with the mandate of the majority of voters - and will serve the interests of us *all*, not just their constituencies and their donors.
@ Cinderball : I agree. Also look at how the EU has developed out of the original protectionist treaties on steel and coal..... your comments equally apply to the current Brussels Technocracy only it is 10’s of times larger and more detached.
The EU certainly has some major inefficiencies - I don't think anybody's arguing that it doesn't. But I think it's not irretrievably broken, to quite the same extent as our Brexit process is. :) @@glyntutt1586
@Cinderball : Yes, I agree, we should have started off with a future trading arrangement instead of accepting Barnier’s plan. We took the wrong approach from day one. Now we have to unwravel it all and sort it out, but as we are not in the €zone, we need to get out as time is not on anyone’s side for sorting the EU out....
Reaching out..reaching out..reaching out they keep saying....TO WHO ?? REMAINER MP's ??? THE PEOPLE VOTED O U T. MP'S NOT WILLING TO DELIVER ARE STOPPING IT.
We can all agree that our political system is broken however and needs to be changed. Proportional representation would be a good start. And the tribal, adversarial approach is also unhelpful.
I agree 100% First Past The Post Electoral Systems are awfully undemocratic. Im not a UKIP supporter but they earned 12% of the overall vote in 2015 and got 1 seat in Parliment, that cannot be fair. First Past The Post creates a duiopoly between the Tories and Labour and therefore it wont change because it benefits them
@@callummcgloin9080 Yes, I agree. It also leads people to vote tactically, rather than for the party they really want, in order to keep one or other of the main two parties out. However after this recent debacle, I will be voting for the parties who really deserve my vote in future.
@@JoannaHenwood Proportional representation has its own long list of problems- like small coalitions of minor parties voting down the party that represents the majority of the electorate.
The nearest we've had to a proportional vote- where every voter got to vote one way or the other on a single issue, was the Brexit vote- how did that turn out? As a brexiteer, I find that certain politicians believe that their own personal views are more important than the mandate that gave them their seat in parliament- totally disgusting and unforgivable.
@@stephenmcdonagh2795 Yes, good points, Stephen. Ultimately, any electoral system is pointless unless the results are honoured, both by MPs and the electorate.
It would be nice to see more working class MPs in parliament. Fed up of all these out of touch eillletes
what differentiates them then.? the ability to spell the word elite.? do you think the more uneducated MP's we have, and the less 'well spoken' types, the better things will be.? that if the government was full of ignorant gobshites, who's only opinion on leaving the EU, was ' Leave means Leave, it aint hard ' then all tis would be done and dusted already..!?? Its almost got to the point where we deserve to be thrown out of the EU, for demonstrating such shameful, national stupidity.
The problem is the Plebs vote tribally, that's how they've stayed in power. People need to learn to vote differently. I did my bit, I voted ukip,if everyone voted differently from the main two parties we could break the system.
Dr Fax We are leaving the EU, and I suspect if the Uk government drags on the EU will kick us out.
Leon Reaper I voted UKIP, I know it’s a waste of a vote, but why I would vote for labour or conservatives
@Pen stemon45 calm down it was a joke was it not?
20:30 finally, at least one MP publicly admitted to realize the real cause of this mess.
They can argue/discuss the Brexit issue till the cows come home, propose this or that... none of it will make any difference. 17+million people didn't vote against the EU, they voted to end the corruption which absolutely saturates Brit and EU politics. That in itself is a far larger and more dangerous problem to the future well being of the UK and Europe; until it's dealt with head on the status quo will continue. This is what has to be discussed and dealt with... not pushed aside while petty politicians argue back 'n forth trying to out maneuver each other for career gain at the expense of their own country and people.
Say Bye Bye , the next election will vote you out for your incompetence.
Alternative for Britain.
Your choice: Labour, Conservative, Lib-Dems, other small party.
With Jeremy Corbyn at the moment you have no real choice.
@@seriousmaran9414 UKIP.
I'm voting Corbyn, can't stomach years of tories & at least Labour areas would get more investment.
Sure many others will vote UKIP or Farages new party & wouldn't blame them. Options are shite.
It’s hard to believe England used to be the most powerful nation in the world. Im watching this fiasco from Australia, and quite frankly, it’s farcical!!
The two main political parties are all but finished. On the one side, we have the 'Conservative' party, who don't seem to want to conserve anything except EU membership and internal fighting over said membership, and on the other side you have Cob and McDoogal who seem to think they are already running the country (despite actually LOSING the last election), and who seem to think that the electorate can't see (or remember) where their flavour of 'overthrowing capitalism' and 'lynching' leads.
I don't see much future for the Blairite Independent Group either since they seem to be Brexit betrayers to a man.
What is needed is a good clear out of MPs of all stripes and replacing with a new intake who are competent to legislate for an Independent and hopefully outward looking country. When these two parties fail to do that, they will be replaced by newer brasher parties that will.
Good luck finding that many competent MPs.
Well LEAVE FINALLY and give PEACE!!!
The traitors are the Brexiteers. They lied throughout the referendum and are still lying now.
I think we're looking at a series of hung parliaments, the entire electoral system & 2 party politics wants flattening. I'd look at a Libertarian option if it was available. Beyond red Corbyn & Mcdonnel not much difference between Labour / Cons.
Career politicians on a tidy package in the Westminster bubble. Comfort breeds incompetence.
@@seriousmaran9414 I'm still waiting for the recession, food shortages and WW3 as told by Remain.
UKIP is not a Racist Party it is a Party for the indigenous Britain s to represent the British Culture and heritage of the English People!
Wow! Two intelligent people who care about the country and who are able to have a civilized debate. Kudos to them!
Was thinking the same
if only that were true
They didn't really say much though. They don't think existing parliament can come to a consensus. Ok... "where does that leave us?" is what's asked repeatedly.
They can't agree, but somehow having more folks in May's position would help?
May AND the Parliament dont seem to know what to do. Because they dont want to uphold the vote and just leave.
shmoo Agreed!
DELIVER BREXIT or be Finished in Politics.
no deal leave
Hopefully this is the end of first past the post and the Labour and Conservative Parties.
Lots of angry comments in here, not sure if any of you bothered to watch the video beyond reading the title. You should watch it, refreshing to see two rivals MP's talk to each other with respect. At a time where I have had enough of our political system, these guys talk a lot of sense and give me hope for change (only a little bit though!).
Yes it's actually comforting hearing from MPs who care about people.
Good call 👍🏽
Well said
Talk is cheap. Very cheap.
Disco I listened to the conversation but nothing of actual substance. They gave me absolutely no confidence that they know what do to with the fact the public has absolutely no confidence in them and how do something about it. Typical politician speak if you ask me.
Tugenthat again blaming the EU for being legalistic and worried about how to divide the record collection after the divorce, forgetting the EU isn't the one asking for a divorce but the UK is. "I want a divorce because we're not getting along like we used to, you're keeping me from reaching my full potential, and I want to be free. Now I would really appreciate it if you don't make make a fuss about the money so we can get along like we used to..."
DON'T vote consecutive DON'T vote labour
Definitely not Labour all voted stop no deal
Hmmm ...never heard of the Consecutive Party...but it does sound interesting! 😁😜
@@abcun17 yep heard of them wished hadn't but can save half just but who from labour 1?
@@abcun17 Yeah I voted for them twice in a row :)
@@abcun17 also could be one of the new party's
Sane people trying to make sense of a crazy situation, breath of fresh air.
EU Referendum Results
By Votes: 17.4 million | 16.1 million
By Constituencies: 406 Leave | 242 Remain
Constituency By Party:
Lab: 148 Leave | 84 Remain
Con: 247 Leave | 80 Remain
By Region: 9 Leave | 3 Remain
By MP: 160 Leave | 486 Remain
The gap between the progressive, Remaine upper and middle-classes and the majority of people in the country is profound. Over the last three years our MP's, media establishment and public figures have shown nothing but contempt for the people who voted differently to them. Leavers have been bullied, ridiculed, ignored and ultimately betrayed by these people, who only respect democracy when it goes their way. In the next few weeks our ruling classes will confirm to the masses that democracy is non-existent in this country and the genie will be firmly out of the bottle. For example, Lisa Nandy's constituency of Wigan voted to leave the EU with 63.9% of the vote. Yet she voted to take no-deal off the table. Is this woman really acting in accordance to how her constituents voted? No. One thing Brexit has taught us is how many self-serving and inefficient imbeciles we have in Parliament.
635k votes is the actual difference, and 3-4 million EU in UK couldn't vote, and 1.5-2 million UK in EU couldn't vote, most having voting age.
@@gameaccount1612 too bad. The real British people spoke.
Huge majority. Ow wait
David Valter nevertheless, a majority.
@@jameswhiteley6843 huge. Will of the people. 17 million people.
Lots of blah blah. No substance. It shows we have a bunch of uni kids with no practical knowledge of life.
Why is our health minister not someone who used to be a doctor or run a hospital?
Why is our infrastructure minister not someone who used to be a project manager for a civil engineering company?
The list could go on. We have twats with politics or economics degrees. Where are your engineers? People who actually deliver progress to the species.
What qualified her or him to be an MP? Or Corbyn or May.
Ok. She has been an MP for 9 years. She entered parliment at 30. Left uni at 21 or 22. Utter useless tossers.
Ok. Respect to him for servicing the armed forces.
its clear that both torys and labour are as bad as each other two sides of the same coin certainly not worth voting for.
Only the Blairites re. Labour.
The only vote worth voting is 'NOTA' or Vote for None. Democracy has never worked - check history instead it is a tool for elites to mobilize a certain % of people in the name of identity, social justice & so on.
Don't forget the libdems they backed Cameron and May.
@@imanomad557 true but who votes for them anyway? probably people who like eating crayons in there spare time and yellow just happens to be there most delicious flavour.
Wow an intelligent and surprisingly polite and honest conversation about Brexit, with both sides represented evenly and an unbiased host... the first I have seen, ever!!
How refreshing: two MP's discussing sensibly and respectively, with differing opinions, open to changes in the political structure which has got us into this mess, with genuine concern for their constituents and the country. Absolutely brilliant I have to say
Translation, if we leave with no deal we are screwed and there will be riots. If we leave with May's deal we are stuck in a bad deal we cannot leave. If we have a referendum, or just cancel BREXIT we will still suffer a bit but not as much and we will still have riots.
Not a good situation.
Finally, some people who get it!
I agree slightly more with Lisa than with Tom, but the important point is that both realize that this transcends basically everything, and that what it has shown the UK is that, basically, the whole system needs to be scrapped and something new will have to be put in place.
Ahsim Nreiziev but Lisa seems to be throwing out random statements without any details or real solutions,I think she’s waffling.What we need is leadership people like Lisa need to really lead that means arguing honestly for what they want.Im pretty sure she was a remainer and she believes leaving will hurt us so come out an tell the truth.Dont just help facilitate brexit because your scared of getting voted out.When we leave an the people are made poorer their still gonna blame you we know the masses are fickle
Remove them both as well as the rest of parliment
Lisa Nandy still calling UKIP voters racist , this is part of the problem
A lot of them are.
shes right about one thing, parliament is not fit for purpose,
The same system worked fine BEFORE we joined.
We just need MP's that are loyal to Britain, rather than the EU.
The people never got behind the idea of EU nationalism, but MP's did. That's our reset.
"The same system worked fine BEFORE we joined." No. It's just that so many people like you didn't think they knew best.
You think you slam apostrophe and s on a word to make it plural, but you don't.
@logicmanX You can't say this in all seriousness.1975 was slightly different to 2019 in many aspects
Lisa Nandy - is a Political Andy Pandy
British people need to start believing in themselves! rather than politicians
"need to start believing in themselves" Being realistic is better.
We voted leave and not subject to deal, and definitely not subject to MP's approval, and we were told voting leave would mean leaving the customs union, the ECJ, the common agricultural policy and ending freedom of movement, now carry that out and no deal is better than a bad deal, and a bad deal is anything that doesn't include the above
Out means out. Leave means leave. You are a simply an idiot.
@ What leave did you imagine? you must have had an idea of what leave means other than leave means leave.
@Big Lurch Aka Looney2 ECC I never voted leave. Would ever vote leave. Not because the EU is perfect but because our incompetent politicians could not even deal a hand of cards let alone a deal to leave the EU.
@@colinsixhitter3303
Yeah I anticipated having a tough time with the EU, but not with thIs level of stupidity on the part of the EU, just makes me want to get out even more, they do this they have one style and one approach to humiliate and intimidate and force people into doing what they want that way. well F@@k them.
I figured parliament would carry out the will of the British people and prosecute it as requested and not secretly work to undermine it, but again this is a work through,
The important thing is to leave the EU, and leave the way were were told we would leave before the referendum which is leaving the customs union, leaving the ECJ, ending freedom of movement and leaving the common agricultural policy, that is objective number one.
After that its a period of renegotiating trade deals and arrangements with other countries including the EU, and taking what ever measure are advisable during that period with regard collection and imposition of tariffs coming into this country,but the goal is worth it.
I come from a background where we have always described a plan as best guess, now that doesn't mean you don't plan well. in fact you plan very well, you have to, and if things go to plan thats cool but as with most plans thing generally don't go the way you expected, but with adaption and rapid re-planning on the hoof always keeping he objective in sight and doing what ever becomes necessary to secure that objective, you can secure it and obtain a good result and thats how I see brexit developing.
@ First the EU have a set of rules. The UK knows that as they took part in forming them. The EU stance has not changed, that is the UK tell them what they want. The UK has not done that. Try to blame the EU all you want and no matter how many time you do that you will still be wrong.
So your first mistake was to believe our MP's were competent despite all the evidence to the contrary. They do not have the skill to undermine the vote only the skill to save their own skins and parties, your second mistake.
Fox told you new trade deals would be the easiest thing in history yet he was so expert he thought he would be in Berlin to discuss trade deals with Germany wrong city and that is not how the EU works. He told you other countries would be falling over each other to get a deal. Where are they?
Of May's deal the ERG said it would trap us as a vassal of the EU and a few days latter Mogg the chairman of the ERG claims May's deal is better than no brexit, i.e. being a vassal of the EU is better than being a full member of the EU. You trusted these snake tongued idiots? really?
I come from a background where before you sell your house and move to a new country you make sure you have a home to go to, markets to buy your food and medicine and a job to provide the ability to do so. Our parliament started article 50 with no idea of any of those and you blame the EU?
May I say something from the point of view of an outsider. Over and over again, I see questions being asked regarding views on an extension. And the response always centers on May or the parliament. But, let me remind people involved. IT IS A NEGOTIATION, and UK is only one side (and very likely, the weaker side in this negotiation). No mater what May or the parliament decided to do, it's only one side, and the May-parliament agreement still has to be agreed by EU. It's not about "taking back the control, blah blah." it's how a fucking negotiation works.
It took me 30 minutes until they told me to work out which parties these two come from. Watching two remainers make goo-goo eyes at each other as they attempt to figure out how to subvert the democratic will of the people. Creating a roadshow where someone comes in, shouts 'remain' and then a closed committee made up of careerists whose party didn't win sorting out what they'll do in secret session is not responding to the constitutional crisis. The crisis is that parliament and government refused to honour the referendum.
Mike Gladstone clearly didn’t listen to a word either of them said!
Mike Gladstone "It took me 30 minutes until they told me to work out which parties these two come from."
It must be difficult telling British posh accents from working class ones if Russian is your first language.
We did not vote for a deal we voted to leave.
As usual no talking about immigration no talking about our kids future no talking about our borders or fishing rights. They just sit there and talk rubbish
That wasn't an interview it was a London love-in
Can't wait to visit the ballot box!
Tell me about it.
11th March 2018
Migrants from Eastern Europe received more in welfare than the average UK citizen - and paid less income tax, figures show. EU migrants
in Britain claimed more than £4billion a year in benefits.
In the run-up to the Brexit referendum, ministers had insisted the figures were not available.
But the cost of open doors migration has now been revealed.
Data from the Department for Work and Pensions, taxman and Treasury shows EU workers received more than £2.2billion in tax credits and housing benefits, £1.1billion in out-of-work payments and £700million in child benefit.
Ex-Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith said it was no surprise that officials did not want to release the figures.
There is never anything inspiring inside the ballot box.
@@A1ArseKicker what's your source ?
The problem is simple. You do not want to vote for NO DEAL even though it’s the law. Your adversaries the EU are playing you like toys and rather than taking the only way out your are scrambling for airline a sacrificial lamb.
The solution is simple - WTO BREXIT. None of these infighting trying to change what we all agreed.
We agreed article 50 for a reason. So that it can guide us.
Two MP's doing what MP's do best; blow smoke up the voter's backsides.
3 points: 1. During the referendum and after, the voters were asked why they had or would vote. Too often we heared the voters say, it was an opportunity to tell the government on London know how they felt because every vote counted. Some said, they had not voted for years but because every vote counts they took the opportunity to " give the government a good kicking" others said in the North East how they had been left behind and London seemed to get all the money from the EU etc. So clearly First Past the Post voting system in elections doesn't work. We need Proportional Representation system where every person's vote counts. But notice not one politician or party has acknowledged this and completely ignored the voting system that partly brought about Brexit because of the anger of not being heared. This is shameful on our elected polititions.
2. Many in the North East felt that they have been left behind since Thatcher days when the economic area was devastated and never really returned to pre-thatcher days. Is this not an argument for a 'Northan Powerhouse' even a more Federal Britain with areas having money direct from government based on number of people living there plus economic need etc. Then the local Fedral government to do what they think is needed drive tge local economy, needs and promote the area. Anyone noticed how those in power once again turn it round to suit their arguement. They are use the number of who turnout of the vote in the referendum to argue this indicates democracy in action in Britain and smuggly feel the same will carry on!
3. During the referendum debate we were told how the EU is undemocratic and who knows their MEP hahaha. Sorry but if you dont know your MEP thats your fault! You should be ashamed of yourself not bragging about your lack of political awareness. What was shocking is that the MEPs are voted on Proportional Representation system making it far, far more democratic where every voters vote is represented. More so than Britains voting system of First Past the Post where many votes are discarded because only those who voted for the winner counts.
All I can say if the North east have trashed the country because they didn't get a Labour government - I resent the money we already pay out and certainly hope we do not replace the EU subsidies they already get and certainly no more when the likes of Nissan leave the UK - Stupid Scum bags the lot of them
@@5888max Think you missed my point! It's not about who or which Party they voted for because there was Major, Cameron and the Liberals, then Cameran alone for the Tories. Also Blair and Brown for Labour after Thatcher and none looked beyond their cosy comfortable political views. Both parties and leaders by ignoring people brought about the anger and frustration that came out in Brexit. The North East was one example but could have used Swindon another high leaver area or Wales but its the same issue feeling of being disenfranchised and not having a political voice or power to be ignored.
@ Alan Maybe I did , it was more subtle than I read it - But being angry and frustrated because you are not being gifted other peoples money does not mean you have to be pandered too . Interesting about Swindon though I didn't know it voted leave , like Sunderland it will be a obvious early casualty Honda is closing and Vodafone is planning to move high end functions to Ireland and Germany . Maybe these fools are just masochists
@@5888max your talking to the converted here my friend. I too have no sympathy for their short sightedness and stupidity but sadly their narrow mindedness is destroying our country that we all live in. With a Loss of earnings of 1 $Trillion already for Britain, so much for the 350ml savings the Red Bus slogan said. Morgan Stanley moving to Dublin as others Banks have left but they are now recruiting staff on their enlarged off shoot! Worse still we will never get any of it back even if we stay. They talk of soverenty, as far as I can see sovernty in this case seems to imply greedy, over arragent politicians who want to force through their political right wing ideology on to us and not compromise or answers to a higher authority.
And the further tragedy is that you and I are talking about disinvestments and investments that were likely to come that now will not . But a lot of investment by British as well as foreign companies will simply not consider the UK , so nobody can say what is lost
Who's representing the "No Deal" position? Is the public, watching this, supposed to not notice?
@Big Lurch Aka Looney2 ECC Wait? Seriously? String up those people trying to escape the control of their masters in Brussels and allow the UK to determine their own future?
Think 'stringing up' escaped slaves was a good idea too?
You're sick and stupid.
Leave means leave - not a deal - but leave. deals should happen in the next round.
You fundamentally misunderstand - by choice.
What you do really is that stupid.
Changing leaders is just like changing the deck chairs on the Titanic.Futile
3 Lies we were told would never happen:-
1) The EU are implementing the UN compact on Migration to start the mass migration of Africa to EU countries. At the time the UK signed up to this, it was said that it would be voluntary but the EU are enshrining this in EU law and it will be legally binding on the 27 countries in the EU even those that abstained or voted against it.
2) The EU are already allocating funding for an EU army
3) Talks are still going on to allow Turkey to join the EU in the future,
@Clifford really Basically a silly claim.
We need MPs who are experienced in business and the economy people that have had jobs in real life and know how to negotiate and do deals no more career politicians they should be banned from standing
Part of me agrees but what I fear would happen is you get rich business leaders filling up Parliament and the next thing you know, we have Donald Trump running the country.
@@redmozzy yes it would need to be overseen by something an outside group with real clout to make sure its not abused. But I understand what you mean but we have to try a new "something".. We cannot go on like we are with idiots in govt
@Mr Comment that is a good point to be fair
@Mr Comment I don't think so,they are all too young especially on labour side. All soft hands college kids
Of course it will you have to be blind not to se it. Parliament all parties have shown contempt for the British People and are finished.
" V "
I get the feeling that neither of these MPs still understand what custom union means. There can be no equivalent free trade agreement. EU will not accept frictionless trade without custom union which means hard boarder in Irland again. When MPs still don't get that how do you expect Joe Blog who voted in the referendum understand that.
May's deal is at best will keep Brexshit dragging on for years and at its worst is unimaginable. Brexshit was always going to end here. Just look at the boarder between Sweden and Norway and they are friendly countries who haven't been at each other's throat for the last millennium.
I ordered something from Canada and it was stuck in the customs for a month.
Ironically EU will have more economic power over UK after Brexshit. They can block any so called free deal agreement that UK wants to sign through WTO if they think that will interfere with their free market. You will then have to go through arbitration or become a rogue country as far as EU is concerned, specially when they will be pulling out investments out of UK.
I lost a very profitable business because of a single directive by EU. These thing can really affect people's jobs and businesses but politicians and even worse people think things can be pretty much the same as it has been for the last 40 years.
if thats the case, how do other non eu countries trade with the eu ?
hear hear! ORDA! ORDA! The Right Honorable Gentleman from Kamali has the floor. . . . .
@@tomrawley6549 BTW, none of it will affect me personally because I retired and left UK just before your Brexshit. I am now living comfortably on shores of the Mediterranean.
@@ExiledGypsy so your irrelevant then
The most interesting discussion I have heard in years.
Family Guy or The Simpsons bares more reality and credibility than The News these days!
Neither of them have a single clue about anything.
I wholeheartedly concur
drain the swamp get rid of all these so called MP'S
So... no deal was voted out. EU doesn't allow an extension under these circunstances. So, may has to revoke article 50 or she will be breaking the law right?
I see this being a crash out of europe due to the criminal actions of a PM.
No!
We voted in 2016 to leave the EU which WON the referendum. please stop taking about Deals do your job and leave on WTO. .brexit meanis brexit (out of EU) not soft brexit .
@@Daniel-oz5dm you are wrong mate my ballot paper was remain or leave and I do not want to be dictated by EU and if this vote is not carried out by the government God help us all.
There'll be no real change to British politics without a shift to Proportional Representation.
hopefully something a bit more European, more democratic, more logical, more collaborative, less American.
That seems like a reasonable debate. Why now though? Those arguments were obvious from the start of the process. Not a single leader appeared to direct anyone at anything, only people working like self-promoted bosses and helpless managers.
The no-deal is the logical conclusion since triggering the Article 50, not because it is the BEST alternative, but because it is the ONLY possible outcome. There was no way hardliners would bend and there was even less possibility of the EU just bowing down to every demand! I point this out because what on earth is being done to deal with the fallout? Sacking incompetent MPs? Why on earth were these guys put in their positions in the first place!
The longer these "leaders" pretend they are trying their best and blaming each other, their countrymen, the opposite parties, the opposite media, the "smart" people and the "honourable" people, the immigrants, the more wounds will be inflicted and the longer and harder it will be to rebuild the bridges necessary to exist for the county to resist the future challenges that WILL befall the country! Now is exactly the time to reunite and stop wasting time deciding WHO to blame and start thinking about WHAT TO DO. All the views have shortcomings but no side admits anything and doubles down without recognizing it for the fear of "appearing weak" or "traitorous"! There is no fucking way this will lead to consensus, just to an imposition by the "winners" on the "losers".
System of patronage...(big point fm the brilliant labour mp)!
Never used to be like that in British Parliament, but thats the character of British politics today, (decision n opinions based on what is good for the party and its leader, rather than, that which is in the best interests of the country!
Uh, read much history? Check the chapter on August, 1914.
Oh it was always like that in the past. READ your parliamentary history and that of the senior politicians of the last hundred years. Few were saints most were sinners.
@@JRobbySh Honest to God, iv not read much political history of this country, what most Africans believe though, is that, this country has the most honest selfless politicians in the world! So for me, born and for the most part of my life, grew up under dictatorships, where patronage thrives, this is a total surprise to me!
Very refreshing to see an MP from each side actually be civil with each other. Need more of this. To Lisa's point around minute 12: even just having Tory and Labor MPs interact with each other on a regular basis (even something as simple as lunch) may be enough. No other change needed. It's incredible how powerful understanding of one another is.
The problem is two parties contain four quartiles of political opinion, who, depending on the issue, have more in common with the opposition than their own party. The way forward is attributing those divisions with names and values, and a system in which they can work together to make decisions. The sentimental attachment to binary parties is somewhere between lack of imagination, incompetence and conspiracy. Broad churches only work when their members don't believe directly opposing things. Brexit has shown that's precisely what they do believe.
Why no MP backing no deal?
In respect of Brexit the politicians sought and received instruction from the population, the instruction was to leave the EU.
To say that in this case the elected MP's now have to make that decision is wrong as the decision had been made. Their job is to implement the instruction they asked us for.
We didn't ask to remain and we certainly didn't want the dreadful deal concocted between May and Merkel in secret. This deal is so bad that it is hated by supporters of Brexit AND supporters of Remain.
Having made a big mistake holding the vote they have to make another big mistake in carrying the result out. Revoke Article 50 would be the best way out apart from the rage and rioting that would follow.
I am so tired of people saying that there was a referendum which told our politicians what to do. It didn’t. It was only aspirational. There was no definition of what was actually wanted. Now there is, let’s vote again. Trouble is Brexiters know they would never win it again when they can no longer lie about what it means. In the referendum all kinds of different and contradictory things were promised from Brexit. They were never all achievable and reconcileable. That is why Brexiters will never be happy whatever the outcome is, and will be looking for people to blame and shout Traitor at!
andrew thornber
The point of view from the LOSERS perspective , so eloquently put.
There was a lot of publicity about what brexit would mean, I was fully aware that we would lose the benefits that the EU provide, but I still happy to vote out, so I wish they would stop saying we didn't know what brexit meant. When it comes to the EU we are mainly consumers rather than suppliers, so I feel that EU would have been keen to have kept trade as smooth as possible.
I like Lisa Nandy she would make a good Labour leader Corbyn is a joke
She is a remainer MP of Wigan who they voted leave by 70%. She is not going to be elected as MP next election because she doesn't represent Wigan's voters.
Very level head!
9:00, yes Brexit *is* certainly a statement by the British people that they no longer want to live under neoliberalism and want a change of system, it was a vote against corporate control and for democracy.
And ultimately the question of what kind of democracy is Britain to become, is an inherent part of that process and a natural consequence. Ofcourse London and the corporate oligarchy that rule over it, want to forget brexit and continue as they were before but clearly the people have spoken. So there is a question, do the oligarchy respect that or do they become tyrannical? Ultimately the people are not interested in the society they are creating, and why should they be? It's an anti-democratic, elites society that has little respect for the little guy.
38:38 it is certainly a question, but political power should never have been given to corporate business and the market
He doesn't understand the Withdrawal Agreement. Out of customs union is no deal on wto not her withdrawal agreement that keeps us in and unable to escape the EU! Dreadful calibre of mps.
We are happy with parliament the way it is. We are not happy with the people and their lack of integrity.
If we do not leave this country will suffer from long term consequences civil unrest are democracy will be gone voting will be worthless it will be a tragedy
Civil unrest? Like the march to leave? Compare that to what people would do if their family members start running out of medicines, and factories closing down. Reality vs fantasy.
@@brezhou29 factory's have been shutting down and shop's closing for years go down your local highstreet and open your eyes dont talk bullshit also some drugs are not available now and we are in the EU.The EU are unelected parasites mafia
@@darrenbull3215 you remind me of this poor bloke in the " anywhere but Westminster" episode from yesterday. Had been laid off, struggling so much, much more than anyone should. This guy turned my stomach upside down, no one should have to go through this, and he didn't deserve it. And he voted Leave, understandably. But the issue is twofold... 1. The reason of all those closures of shops and factories are pinned on the EU immigrants... Really? Is it really the reason? And more importantly... 2. This guy in whom I saw half of my family, thought it can't get worse, and that's where you reminded me of him. You seem to think it can't get worse. People laid off in the 80s thought it couldn't get worse, and it did.
Do you really think it can't get even worse? Have you seen the state of most cities in the US..?
He said Brexit is brexit and the interviewer never asked WTF that means AGAIN. Where are the people it will affect the most? Why do we never see real people who's lives will be changed. We only see MP's and we know how little they know.
@ And then.........?
Revolutions change lives. When the American Congress adopted our Declaration of Independence, John Hancock boldly signed it.The rest were slow in adding their signature.BECAUSE--read the last part, they then pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor. To be sure, Europe is not mustering a powerful Armada --the greatest force ever to cross the Atlantic. But this hung Parliament faces a greater threat: the disaffection of the British public. The false promises of John Major et al. ended up in a day of reckoning. David Cameron was too dense to see it coming.
@@JRobbySh Their greed has blinded them to what every Roman Emperor knew. Above all they feared the angry mob. No coincidence that the roman empire fell after they abolished debt forgiveness which resulted in the few at the top owning all the wealth and left everyone else with nothing.
not leaving will
O dear o dear, her constituents voted 2/1 to leave the EU!
The mps say this about their constituencies however it was NEVER about that, it was one person one vote across the board nationwide they are wrong to reason it like they do
People have had enough now. Will be entertaining few months that’s for sure
And there I was thinking that citizens voted MPs into power in order to represent their constituents, rather than 'The House'.
The question we should be asking is “will we let the eu leave the Union of Great Britain ‘
Love your comment 👏
They don't care as much as you believe. They just want Britain to go and leave The E.U to prosper. I
@@davidvalter1936 Truthfully, all the British electorate want is to leave and to have friendly relations with our neighbours. This whole farce has been perpetuated by a govt and parliament in the Uk who want to undermine and/or reverse the decision (which they laid upon the electorate) and the EU elites who want to prevent any other EU country from ever trying it.
It has been quite instructive in the value of a citizen's vote, that is for sure.
@@davidvalter1936 I think they care very much we are just the beginning of a brick from the wall .
@Big Mac. If this is truely what you think, you are just as out of touch with reality as your politicians. It seems that you do not understand, that Brexit is the single largest threat to your entire union since WW2. If a hard Brexit occurs, the UK might not exist in another 10 years.
A lot of nice words and some I disagree with but the fact that the vocally acknowledge they aren’t popular in the eye of the public gives me absolutely no confidence they know what to do about it. Classic politicians
Well classic in the sense they realize an impasse, human to acknowlege that. Actually, your response is classic too. Have you ever tried to move legislation even at the local community level? I have done so at local, state, and national. Try it you will NOT like it, but try it.
No deal is beter than a bad deal
Wrong.
@@dohlecarnett1866 wrong
@@danefox5108 Look, everbody who says this has no idea how the economy works. It is just nonsense.
@@dohlecarnett1866 left wing British hater
@@danefox5108 That is of course a great argument for Brexit. You convinced me!
Not democracy as we know it. Unrepresentative with both parties still containing majorities of MPs who are pro EU. Seventy five percent of MPs voted in the Referendum to remain. The electorate split was 52% -48%. In both parties the majority of MPs are pro EU. The electorate does not have representative power of it's views within it's own Parliment. Parliment fails to be a democracy and it doesn't self refect on this.
Lisa Nandy the winner, lets hope her allegedly thick voters ( her words) show her who pays the wages come election time!
Presumably the same thick voters who are paying it now. 😂
I'm from Wigan, which is her constituency. I don't live there anymore, but I can tell you that the area is dreadfully underfunded, poverty is rife, teenage pregnancy, drug and alcohol abuse, public services decimated which have never been funded properly since Thatcher waged war on the North. I completely understand why most people there voted leave. They're not "thick" - but they have bigger problems that have not been solved by politicians and many voted Leave to simply say "up yours" to a system that beats them down at every opportunity.
@@harley4303 Totally agree Labour have been in power for decades in Wigan taking the public for absolute fools, LiblabCON !
Honest democracy has been in short supply for a great many years and looking forward to a better future. Nandy 's time is up!
Isn't all of this mess (worldwide) the reason why functionality of government should have very little to do with daily life? Everyone is divided because so much of life comes down to individual and familial circumstances. Trying to bring about resolution to every problem of social or economical nature with government becomes an absurdity.
We voted out, simple out, when we're out clear of the EU ,its then we will sort our trade even with tne EU
That's not how it works 😂
MPs signed up to Article 50 approved by Parliament and now legislation - so that means LEGALLY we leave with or without a deal March29 - SIMPLE - NOT COMPLICATED -
Leaving wothout a deal will be extremely complicated. And very damaging.
When we went in there was job loses what about all the dairy men that lost there jobs when we lost half of the county's dairy heards.
@@malcolmbooth8852 thats true - sorry what about them? - UK has some of the best dairy in the world - - -I just don't understand all this negativity towards UK - nearly 80% of our economy has nothing to do with the EU -we are more than capable of growing that - over 6% unemployment in EU and rising - under 2 % unemployment in UK - lowest figures since 1975 - - we are a strong country - and we can do this - - - - - -
@@trueblue2124 as i was around when heath put us into this bunch of gangsters, and have been there milk cow ever since.
@@malcolmbooth8852 lol we're similar age then -
Hey are we forced to leave, the whole Brexit its a shame from beginning to end, we need a refund..
Peter Atkin no we don't we want no deal
The old political order are finished, UKIP for me.
No alternative ,revenge will be sweet.
We'd need a house of the public to control parliament and enforce democracy
Like a parliament?
@@Daniel-oz5dm I would have thought that was obvious.....because we can't trust our MPs.
To change politics we need a change to the voting system unfortunately turkeys don't vote for Christmas. The current system is like a broken car, changing the driver doesn't fix the problem.
If YOU can't accept the deal on the table, then agree to NO DEAL; make temporary arrangements and FINALLY CONCENTRATE on the FUTURE RELATIONSHIP!! YOU ARE OUT OF THE EU!!! LIVE WITH IT!!!!
You seem to have issues with your caps lock sticking
I..... don't think you understood what this conversation was about....
A lot of talk about the incompetence of the 2 major parties, but if there was a general election next week the majority of MPs would be Tory or Labour....... People simply don't have the mental capacity to vote any other way!
We want to leave no deal is the best deal our mp's are traitors
The way to solve the problems with our political process is this:
1. ban political contributions from any entity not a single human individual. Cap those too.
2. ban political parties. return to the origin of English parliament where MP's were nothing more or less that their constituencies single representative with no party affiliations. With a sole mandate "to represent their constituents interests in the best possible manner during the process of making new law". This effectively eliminates party line block voting and turns every vote in Parliament into a free vote. This results in fewer but better laws that benefit a broader cross section of the populace.
3. Pay MP's MUCH more than they are now. TO attract the best candidates to run. With point 1 also implemented this ensures they are actually beholden to the voters in their riding for their meals.
Problems solved.
These are actually all easily done. All it takes is Will. Will for the people to wake up and demand it + one party to get voted in as a majority on a platform of parliamentary reform, then having the integrity to follow through to effectively ban itself in the following GE.
We've had a peoples vote. Now its time for Nigel f.a r a g e to form the peoples party. He will give us what Britain wants
The same way he resigned when it came to responsabilities on empty promises and lies.
We’d rather have a kitten as a prime minister than Farage.
Why would anyone accept the deal, it's not a deal its a political treaty written by Barnier for the EU's benefit, not ours.
It's nothing to do with party differences. it's nothing to do with your opinions. just implement the damn referendum.
And what exactly did the referendum say? Leave with no deal? Leave with May's deal? Leave with a different deal? None of that was on the ballot paper and different people in the leave campaign said different things
No matter how hard they try, they can't perform the impossible. There is no deal to be had, and a crashout Brexit would be disaster for us all.
@@zeddeka good grief, are you really seriously asking this question or are you just regurgitating another person's opinion? The referendum was a simple binary choice. The ballot was in or out, there was no reference to a ,'deal'. But the people were told ad infinitum that leaving meant leaving the customs union and all the other treaty obligations. The politicians have taken it upon themselves to interpret the referendum as they have. Even if you are a remainers you should be supporting the result, the next result they ignore may affect you and you may want my support.
@@cinderball1135 why would it be a disaster? Why should we believe what the traitorous elitists say? This is just an assertion by people who have a proven track record of being wrong.
To leave WTO would be liberating.
The EU is falling apart anyway.
@@cinderball1135 sorry cinder all, I can't read all your comments so don't know how to reply to you. By the way, I'm not bitter just angry. You should be too even if you don't like the result of the referendum. Can you not imagine how you might feel if the boot was on the other foot?
It's so refreshing to hear people talking respectfully and reasonably
No is the answer
@Nathaniel Joyce change the speed
I must say, as an American watching with great interest, the point made by Lisa about there being very little space for dialogue and consensus in Parliament really hit home with me. That is exactly what has also happened in the United States. There seems to be little real "discussion" of anything anymore here. Among both our politicians and the general public there is almost no room for compromise. Any discussion quickly becomes a heated argument that results in meaningless name-calling. There seems to be no sense of a "shared challenge", just an all-out effort by each group to destroy the "enemy". And the "enemy" is anyone who has even a slightly different opinion than yours. These days public discourse in the USA sounds more like 3rd graders arguing on the playground during recess than adults trying to find a way to work together for the betterment of the country. It's both maddening and sad.