I am an 87 year old exbrit, who as lived in Southern Ontario since 1965. These videos bring back memories of rail travel in the U.K. To really enjoy them. I sit in my Lazboy chair,wear a pair of wireless headphones, and look at them on my 86-inch 4K tv. It feels like I am sitting on the front of the train.
Like the footbridge below Norbury, in the mid 60s I'd often cycle to the level crossing at Eastfields Road to watch trains. Never occurred to me that one day they'd put a station there!
Excellent video quality, thanks for sharing. Only drove the London to Brighton a couple of times during my short stint at Southern but this brings back some nice memories, thanks.
Thank you for filming the return journey! I loved every minute, as it brought back such happy memories and I even remembered the stations on the way up! Thank you again, one happy viewer!
Glad you enjoyed it! It’s why I film these runs, they evoke memories for people. And in 10 or 20 years time when the trains change, they become part of history!
Excellent video. I grew up in Dorking in the 1980s and can remember the main line trains from Victoria to Bognor Regis that used to run through Sutton, Dorking (then Dorking North) and Horsham. It meant you could get from Dorking to London with only one stop at Sutton and the train had a buffet car. Those were the days!
@@emmo999 In the summers (1950s, early 1960s) there were non-stop trains (via Dorking and Sutton) from Bognor Regis to Victoria. I travelled on a number of these (all had buffet cars).
Excellent video. I grew up in Dorking and spent all my spare time in the late 70s and early 80s train spotting at Dorking station. This journey is incredibly familiar despite not having made it for more than 25 years. I’d love to see the Waterloo journey too! Thanks for this!
Yep, very tidy building. It could easily be mistaken for a palace/government/church building. I wonder why, out of all the various utilities, water works were usually so attractive. I didn't seem to work for gas, electricity etc.
Good old Victoria. More than 50 years since my last journeys in and out - 1966/7 working at the Cabinet Office in Whitehall (not a mandarin, just a paper pusher). Must say I miss those fantastic staggered platforms (9-11/10-12?) that could accommodate 2 x 8 coach SUBs or LAVs in their combined lengths. Only ever caught a train from the further face very rarely however, so perhaps that was a sign they were no longer needed even then...
Wow, I didn’t know there were platforms on the central side that were that long. Obviously there’s still platform 2 that will accommodate anything that length, but it’s rarely used for its entirety other than maybe charters
@@emmo999 There's a book/mag (which I have owned for a number of years) called "This is Southern Region Central Division", part of which documents the Victoria remodelling and Brighton Line re-signalling schemes that resulted in the establishment of Three Bridges and the two Victoria control centres. It has a before and after track diagram of Victoria Brighton side, which shows how the platforms were originally arranged and how the layout was remodelled as part of the rebuilding. Think of the two up main platforms at Colchester and you'll get the idea of how they worked. They were separate and I think were individually numbered, but I'd have to check that out. I don't think they could operate safely as a single platform because of the kink in the middle where the line serving the outer face merged into the straight track serving the terminal face. There's at least one photo record of a collision between a train on the outer face being hit by one coming into the inner, in my Bradford Barton Southern Electric album I think. Must delve back into it all and revive my memory.
It would be nice to see the track down to Horsham, through Holmwood Ockley and Warnham. I travel this route a lot but it would be nice to see a cab view.
@@emmo999 In the late 1970's and early 1980s I lived near Dorking and travelled into Victoria on occasion, but have never been south of Dorking on the train. Would love to see it.
emmo999, IMHO your video quality is only second to Don Coffey. The only reason I have TH-cam Premium is to watch content like this so I really respect the work put into it.
Another interesting trip, thank you. Nice to see the route in both directions too.👍😁 Even with your helpful captions, railmaponline open and a Quaill map beside me, I still get completely confused north of Clapham Jct. I'm sure, once you've done your route-learning, that one route will make sense but, it's all the 𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟 lines that complicate matters. I can follow our route - no problem, but that's only part of it. I suppose, with enough practice, it all drops into place.😁 Are you less likely to get diverted since privatisation? I'm guessing BR drivers would have had wider route knowledge. Cheers for now, Dougie.
I don’t believe passenger drivers would have had that much different route knowledge. Even though it was one firm, depots would still have only run certain routes. I know some depots were mixed traction ie passenger one day, freight the next, so there would definitely be more route knowledge for them. Clapham Jn itself is very simple - there’s very little that actually connects. Anything for Southern (coming from Croydon) is going to Victoria, anything on South West is going to Waterloo. There is no mixing (and no crossovers to allow it!)
@@emmo999 Interesting, and surprising. I just assumed virtually any move/route would be possible. I'll need to dig Quaill out again and have a better look at it.👍😁
Obviously this is aboard a passenger train as well rather than the recent tamper videos. That may be the difference. Pass! The next couple of videos are also on passenger trains
That is an idiosyncratic layout at Epsom with the tracks crossing over each other at the London end. I've just been reading about the history of it; apparently, since the pre-grouping companies mostly loathed each other, even after they'd opened the shared track to Dorking, the LBSC still refused to have anything to do with the LSW's station and didn't stop their trains there 😒
Return journey always gives a different view of things. Dropping down the slow spur to the Brighton liners, is the green domed building one of Thames Water pumping stations?
There is a shunt signal in the cess just prior to this. So it will be a mark for a passenger train driver to stop at knowing the back end is clear and an easy method of climbing down (if needed) to change ends for the shunt signal
I vividly remember a stay with an aunt who lived south of London on the line to Brighton. I used this line repeatedly to travel into London on the way to other places. Most trains I jumped on ran into Victoria Station, but sometimes I would unknowingly end up at London Bridge!! Such fun.
It’s only a relative backwater nowadays, the main Portsmouth trains staying on the Brighton main to Three Bridges before diverting through Crawley towards Horsham, etc
Any idea why you were routed via the slow lines if you were just going to skip most of the stops anyway? Especially as you were routed via the fast lines for the journey from Victoria to Dorking! Was it just down to how busy the lines are in being able to accommodate this service?
The normal routing is via the slow lines. The fasts are kept clear for other fast services to East Croydon and beyond. Going down via the fasts was only because of the failed train at Clapham Junction
I can’t see there is much call for it? It has happened in numerous places all over the country. With trains able to brake and accelerate pretty quickly nowadays, the time cost for stopping is minimal. As such, there aren’t the time conflicts there once were
@@emmo999 I guess that's true, my thoughts was more like, if it wasn't getting in the way as such, might as just leave. It's always there in case needed in some way. The station area looks awfully bland now 🤔
@@aquissuk Practically everything stops at Cheam and there is no freight traffic. Leaving them in would have involved four sets of points plus associated signalling for an overtaking facility that would rarely be used. That in turn requires more track and signalling maintenance. The difference in time between a stopping train and a non-stopping train results in a difference of just two minutes per station stop on a relatively low speed line such as this. Don't forget also that there are quite severe low speed restrictions at Dorking, Epsom, Sutton, Mitcham Junction and Streatham Junction anyway.
up till the early 80’s there used to be trains from Victoria to Portsmouth via Sutton, Dorking & Horsham. As Sutton would be first still it makes sense that it would overtake trains at Cheam. Trains were later routed via Gatwick when the airport took off.
n the 50's 60's and 70's Victoria to Bognor/Portsmouth Harbour trains ran fast to Sutton and then onto Dorking. Cheam was the only place where they could overtake without problems. That was tin he good old days of the 4 COR's and 4 CEP's complete with Buffet cars. (sighs)
Could Thameslink introduce a new service to Dorking from Bedford, Luton, Peterborough, Cambridge, Cambridge North and St. Albans City with using Class 700 8-Car and 12-Car trains. If they are willing to expand their network even further. And possibly to Guildford. Or is that never going to happen. And using Southern and South Western Railway is much ideal.
I’m not sure there’s much merit in Dorking. They currently run Peterborough to Horsham, so it’s only a change at Horsham for Dorking. Guildford I guess? I think platform space is an issue there though
I am an 87 year old exbrit, who as lived in Southern Ontario since 1965. These videos bring back memories of rail travel in the U.K. To really enjoy them. I sit in my Lazboy chair,wear a pair of wireless headphones, and look at them on my 86-inch 4K tv. It feels like I am sitting on the front of the train.
A great run full of information regarding the train operation and the numerous lines in and out of London. Thank you.
Thanks for the kind comments. Glad you enjoyed it
Like the footbridge below Norbury, in the mid 60s I'd often cycle to the level crossing at Eastfields Road to watch trains. Never occurred to me that one day they'd put a station there!
It’s very well used now. One wonders what took so long!
Fully professional video is this, and very well edited, too. Many thanks for this upload.
Excellent video quality, thanks for sharing. Only drove the London to Brighton a couple of times during my short stint at Southern but this brings back some nice memories, thanks.
Glad you enjoyed the ride. Thanks for the kind comments
Thank you for filming the return journey! I loved every minute, as it brought back such happy memories and I even remembered the stations on the way up! Thank you again, one happy viewer!
Glad you enjoyed it! It’s why I film these runs, they evoke memories for people. And in 10 or 20 years time when the trains change, they become part of history!
Excellent video. I grew up in Dorking in the 1980s and can remember the main line trains from Victoria to Bognor Regis that used to run through Sutton, Dorking (then Dorking North) and Horsham. It meant you could get from Dorking to London with only one stop at Sutton and the train had a buffet car. Those were the days!
A buffet car is a rarity indeed nowadays!
@@emmo999 In the summers (1950s, early 1960s) there were non-stop trains (via Dorking and Sutton) from Bognor Regis to Victoria. I travelled on a number of these (all had buffet cars).
A very enjoyable ride today. Reminds me when I traveled a lot back in the late 1990’s to the UK. See you on the next. Cheers mates! 🇬🇧🙂👍🇺🇸
Nice to see a cab view off the train going past my flat on the right at 26:33. Nice video. 🤔👍
Excellent video. I grew up in Dorking and spent all my spare time in the late 70s and early 80s train spotting at Dorking station. This journey is incredibly familiar despite not having made it for more than 25 years. I’d love to see the Waterloo journey too! Thanks for this!
Will see what I can arrange for the Waterloo trip!
Should have guessed you'd be here Mr Heath 😂 Great video!
Thanks for posting up! Really enjoyed that, good work
Glad you enjoyed the ride. Thanks for the comments
Great video. Informative comments. Good relaxing ride for a hot, humid afternoon in Maine. Thanks so much.
No worries. Glad you enjoyed the ride
Many years ago on EPBs then gone away onto 158s and 170s Thanks for the reminder of days past.
I much prefer the EPBs!
18:57 Those platforms are also for terminating trains from Victoria, which are pretty much the same route as the Epsom Downs
Thanks for this. Travelled into Vic prob thousands of times and until now I never knew what the Pugs Hole sidings were called.
The railway has a habit of coming out with some strange names sometimes!
I recently started commuting from this line. I wish we still had semi fast trains like this one!
Would love to see Horsham to Dorking.
I've always loved that building at 29:05. The Victorians knew how to build a water works with style
Victorian architecture was generally very pretty
Yep, very tidy building. It could easily be mistaken for a palace/government/church building. I wonder why, out of all the various utilities, water works were usually so attractive. I didn't seem to work for gas, electricity etc.
Another excellent production- very enjoyable
Thanks for the kind comments. Glad you enjoyed it
Good old Victoria. More than 50 years since my last journeys in and out - 1966/7 working at the Cabinet Office in Whitehall (not a mandarin, just a paper pusher). Must say I miss those fantastic staggered platforms (9-11/10-12?) that could accommodate 2 x 8 coach SUBs or LAVs in their combined lengths. Only ever caught a train from the further face very rarely however, so perhaps that was a sign they were no longer needed even then...
Wow, I didn’t know there were platforms on the central side that were that long. Obviously there’s still platform 2 that will accommodate anything that length, but it’s rarely used for its entirety other than maybe charters
@@emmo999 There's a book/mag (which I have owned for a number of years) called "This is Southern Region Central Division", part of which documents the Victoria remodelling and Brighton Line re-signalling schemes that resulted in the establishment of Three Bridges and the two Victoria control centres. It has a before and after track diagram of Victoria Brighton side, which shows how the platforms were originally arranged and how the layout was remodelled as part of the rebuilding. Think of the two up main platforms at Colchester and you'll get the idea of how they worked. They were separate and I think were individually numbered, but I'd have to check that out.
I don't think they could operate safely as a single platform because of the kink in the middle where the line serving the outer face merged into the straight track serving the terminal face. There's at least one photo record of a collision between a train on the outer face being hit by one coming into the inner, in my Bradford Barton Southern Electric album I think. Must delve back into it all and revive my memory.
It would be nice to see the track down to Horsham, through Holmwood Ockley and Warnham. I travel this route a lot but it would be nice to see a cab view.
I’ll try and get one next time I’m down that way, shouldn’t be a problem
@@emmo999 Thanks
@@emmo999 In the late 1970's and early 1980s I lived near Dorking and travelled into Victoria on occasion, but have never been south of Dorking on the train. Would love to see it.
Great video great video quality nice job think might go for a train driver but maybe a bit young am only 76
Many Thanks Much appreciated
Thank you for your comments. Glad you enjoyed it
Strikes me that trains like this 350 family EMU are significantly longer in London than on Liverpool-Crewe-Birmingham areas.
This is a Class 377 from Bombardier
Spotted the Fox on the left as Train departed Carshalton.
Would nice to see a journey down to Bognor Regis travelled that route on many occasions
Will see what I can sort. I do have a Littlehampton - Bognor Regis video on my channel, but it wasn’t ideal as it was a trainee being instructed
😇💯💖👋👋!! 👍👍👍!! LOVED THE JOURNEY ! MANY THANKS ! SO VERY SOOTHING ! FROM, U.K. (2024).
That was truly fantastic
Fantastic rural settings.
emmo999, IMHO your video quality is only second to Don Coffey. The only reason I have TH-cam Premium is to watch content like this so I really respect the work put into it.
Thank you for the kind comments. I’m a bit behind with my uploads, but feedback like this really does spur me on, so thank you
What would the slip switch at 32:13 be used for ? Pulling into the Streatham Hill Railway Depot ? Aarre Peltomaa
Another interesting trip, thank you. Nice to see the route in both directions too.👍😁
Even with your helpful captions, railmaponline open and a Quaill map beside me, I still get completely confused north of Clapham Jct. I'm sure, once you've done your route-learning, that one route will make sense but, it's all the 𝑜𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟 lines that complicate matters. I can follow our route - no problem, but that's only part of it. I suppose, with enough practice, it all drops into place.😁
Are you less likely to get diverted since privatisation? I'm guessing BR drivers would have had wider route knowledge.
Cheers for now,
Dougie.
I don’t believe passenger drivers would have had that much different route knowledge. Even though it was one firm, depots would still have only run certain routes. I know some depots were mixed traction ie passenger one day, freight the next, so there would definitely be more route knowledge for them.
Clapham Jn itself is very simple - there’s very little that actually connects. Anything for Southern (coming from Croydon) is going to Victoria, anything on South West is going to Waterloo. There is no mixing (and no crossovers to allow it!)
@@emmo999 Interesting, and surprising. I just assumed virtually any move/route would be possible. I'll need to dig Quaill out again and have a better look at it.👍😁
Great video emmo, amazing train journey, lovley imfomation, very clear camera, do you have a new one? 😀👍👌
Thanks Shaun. Camera hasn’t changed? Still the same GoPro it’s been for ages. Not likely to change for a fair while, it does me well 👍🏻
@@emmo999 thanks, was just wondering, it look clearer than in your other videos, probably a clean windscreen 👍
Obviously this is aboard a passenger train as well rather than the recent tamper videos. That may be the difference. Pass! The next couple of videos are also on passenger trains
@@emmo999 thanks, looking forward to seeing them 👍
That is an idiosyncratic layout at Epsom with the tracks crossing over each other at the London end. I've just been reading about the history of it; apparently, since the pre-grouping companies mostly loathed each other, even after they'd opened the shared track to Dorking, the LBSC still refused to have anything to do with the LSW's station and didn't stop their trains there 😒
It does have its merits in that up trains are either side of one platform, and down trains on the other
Return journey always gives a different view of things.
Dropping down the slow spur to the Brighton liners, is the green domed building one of Thames Water pumping stations?
I’m wasn’t sure. But a quick Google has provided this link
hidden-london.com/gazetteer/streatham-common/
@@emmo999 Thanks for the information. Thought it was a pumping station as it looks like others I have seen.
The signal box is more like a signal palace or a signal manor. :-)
What's the small platform on the left of the track at 19:51?
There is a shunt signal in the cess just prior to this. So it will be a mark for a passenger train driver to stop at knowing the back end is clear and an easy method of climbing down (if needed) to change ends for the shunt signal
Great video are you doing any more inn2022. Paul
Always more planned!
I vividly remember a stay with an aunt who lived south of London on the line to Brighton. I used this line repeatedly to travel into London on the way to other places. Most trains I jumped on ran into Victoria Station, but sometimes I would unknowingly end up at London Bridge!! Such fun.
Ahh yes the return journey, love to hear the clunking on the electrostar throttle lever thingy.
Is the line only 75mph?
It’s only a relative backwater nowadays, the main Portsmouth trains staying on the Brighton main to Three Bridges before diverting through Crawley towards Horsham, etc
@@emmo999 backwater? I assume you mean it is a limited line, despite how long it looks for the potential to be faster.
Sorry, backwater is sort of slang for “not the main route”
Any idea why you were routed via the slow lines if you were just going to skip most of the stops anyway? Especially as you were routed via the fast lines for the journey from Victoria to Dorking!
Was it just down to how busy the lines are in being able to accommodate this service?
The normal routing is via the slow lines. The fasts are kept clear for other fast services to East Croydon and beyond. Going down via the fasts was only because of the failed train at Clapham Junction
@@emmo999 ah that makes sense, thanks for the info!
Awesome. Thank you
Removing the through roads at Cheam seems bizarre to me. Was their a bigger purpose that never happened?
I can’t see there is much call for it? It has happened in numerous places all over the country. With trains able to brake and accelerate pretty quickly nowadays, the time cost for stopping is minimal. As such, there aren’t the time conflicts there once were
@@emmo999 I guess that's true, my thoughts was more like, if it wasn't getting in the way as such, might as just leave. It's always there in case needed in some way. The station area looks awfully bland now 🤔
@@aquissuk Practically everything stops at Cheam and there is no freight traffic. Leaving them in would have involved four sets of points plus associated signalling for an overtaking facility that would rarely be used. That in turn requires more track and signalling maintenance. The difference in time between a stopping train and a non-stopping train results in a difference of just two minutes per station stop on a relatively low speed line such as this. Don't forget also that there are quite severe low speed restrictions at Dorking, Epsom, Sutton, Mitcham Junction and Streatham Junction anyway.
up till the early 80’s there used to be trains from Victoria to Portsmouth via Sutton, Dorking & Horsham. As Sutton would be first still it makes sense that it would overtake trains at Cheam. Trains were later routed via Gatwick when the airport took off.
n the 50's 60's and 70's Victoria to Bognor/Portsmouth Harbour trains ran fast to Sutton and then onto Dorking. Cheam was the only place where they could overtake without problems. That was tin he good old days of the 4 COR's and 4 CEP's complete with Buffet cars. (sighs)
i saw a sign saying SDO11. does that mean platforms 2 & 3 at dorking are only long enough for 11 coaches?
SDO is Selective Door Opening, so it’s possible. 5 or 10 car stock is the general order of the day
boooo i’ve had no camera crew in my cab yet….but i do love dorkings…horsham’s every more so as it’s a lovely run!!
Did cheam used to have platforms in the middle, hence the gap
Never platforms, just through lines for faster trains to pass stopping trains
@@emmo999 yeh cause before they built the line through Crawley to Horsham they would go this way to the south coast
why are there two rails on one side ?
One is electrified, and provides the power that drives the trains
Thanks :-)
Thanks? 😅
Are you passed out to drive on the Dorking line?
This Dorking line, or the Guildford-Redhill line? In either case, it’s yes
@@emmo999 Vic-Dorking line is what I am referring too. GTR
why the train stop the station so short
Where? In many cases, platforms are longer than trains - there is no need to go all the way to the end of a platform
@@emmo999 ok
Class 66 on aggregates over on the left just as we leave Clapham Junct
Yes, good spot! That would dive down towards Longhedge Jn and probably around towards Factory Jn and on to Hither Green/Angersteins
Could Thameslink introduce a new service to Dorking from Bedford, Luton, Peterborough, Cambridge, Cambridge North and St. Albans City with using Class 700 8-Car and 12-Car trains. If they are willing to expand their network even further. And possibly to Guildford. Or is that never going to happen. And using Southern and South Western Railway is much ideal.
I’m not sure there’s much merit in Dorking. They currently run Peterborough to Horsham, so it’s only a change at Horsham for Dorking. Guildford I guess? I think platform space is an issue there though
@@emmo999 True.
3rd rail power?
Yes. 750v in the outside rail
Are you a driver? 😅😃
Take a random guess. You’ve got a 50/50 chance 😂
@@emmo999 haha 👍🏻 would love that job
It definitely has its perks, but there’s quite a bit of unsocial hours involved
@@emmo999 true what’s your normal routes that you do, plus my fav trains our southern 377 and 313 :-) do you drive any of these ?
And do you think TSW2 has captured the realism? Last question promise
class 377 ?
377/6 yes
Nice comfortable ride, driver was great and cost was ok "lol"!
I see a bunch of my friends in this video lol
I’ll take your word for it!
zs@
That awful graffiti blighting everywhere, 😮
It’s not just the railway