Unexpected Airframe Ice with Dick Rochfort (24071416.20395)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ย. 2024
- Dick Rochfort is a Master Certified Flight Instructor providing excellent training, pre-purchase consulting, aircraft relocation and expert witness services to owners, pilots and instructors of the Piper PA46 aircraft. He holds ATP, Commercial and Gold Seal Flight Instructor Certificates with SEL, SES, MEL, CFII, MEI, and CE-525S ratings. He has been a full-time flight instructor working exclusively in PA46 aircraft (all variants) since 1992 and has over 10,000 hours in Make/Model.
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"Fly first, talk second." Student pilot here. I know this, but it can never be overstated. Thank you!
Hi Matt, Yes indeed. Easier said than done. This was the pilot training’s first ice experience. The area was forecast to be light ice only, but there you have it.
Glad I watched this from my desk seat and not the right seat. Terrific lesson and video. Thanks for posting.
Thanks.. Fly Safely - Train Often .. DR
Thanks for the visceral demonstration on how so many pilots get in bad trouble in these high performance pressurized planes that don't require a type rating. I've never seen that myself in such detail.
Thank you for your comments.. Fly Safely - Train Often .. DR
Good lesson for a real world icing situation, that airspeed loss serious!
It’s THE most important consideration! Fly Safely - Train Often .. DR
I didn't see what led up to this, but 105IAS at 250 really caught my attention. About 10 knots lost from ice and ATC needs to know you NEED to move. Looked like you were going through some tops. I've picked up moderate at -25c and descended just 2k, out of the tops, and ice became manageable again. 30 knots of lost airspeed in an underpowered plane like a malibu is pretty scary. You may have been only a few knots from the critical angle of attack. On a piston it really snowballs. You lose that airspeed that already doesn't have a big buffer and now you've lost your engine cooling as well because of lost airflow. This particular situation should have been avoided via preflight planning. Known weather and -20c at your can's ceiling should have prompted either a lower altitude or a delay. PA46's are FIKI but anything with boots shouldn't do anything but transit icing conditions. These planes are breaking up at an alarming rate from less experienced pilots doing this. Stay safe!
Hi Bonanza Pilot.. Thanks for your comments. You are spot on with your analysis. This was a training flight focusing on rain showers/radar and CIP/FIP airframe ice scenarios. This specific area was forecast by the CIP/FIP to be light ice only. The airspeed issue concerned us the most. Sometimes I find that this is the result of not leaving the area soon enough. In this instance the pilot training did not begin the descent soon enough. In fact he even climbed a little bit coming off the AP due to the updraft. It was his first icing experience and while it was a bit more than we expected he did the right thing. When we debriefed, the updated CIP/FIP showed areas of light and moderate ice! It is also important to note that an area with a PIREP for light ice from a 737 is off limits to a GA aircraft. Same way each and every time.. SWEET! Fly Safely - Train Often .. DR
Damn the emergency decent and lack of AP usages looked way more dangerous than the ice that was on the wings!
If the encounter is more than light ice; AP OFF, maintain minimum ice penetration speed or more, leave the area, announce your intentions and declare an emergency if needed. Fly Safely - Train Often .. DR
Thanks for sharing. CRM
seemed a little lacking there - the student seemed confused at all the instructions that were thrown at him. Once you pushed the nose down and were in clear air there really wasn’t an emergency so maybe taking a few seconds to calm things down and to summarize the situation and the next steps would be helpful? Since you brought up medicine, SBAR (Situation, Background, Assessment and Recommendation) is often used to summarize the issue and recommended resolution. You might want to try it out.
CRM is a tricky thing to teach in single pilot aircraft. I focus on immediate action drills and simple rules, most of which is provided in preflight briefings and post flight debriefs. Fly Safely - Train Often .. DR
Disengaging yaw damp at FL250 is wild, autopilot maybe but yaw damp needs to stay on. I also wouldn't advise disengaging AP in this scenario, just get a descent going, you're unnecessarily increasing workload, he was clearly overloaded there.
Hi Caprica, Thanks for your comments. The PA46 elevator has an “over center” portion that allows ice forming in that area to “freeze” the elevator surface to the horizontal stabilizer. The autopilot must come off to prevent a runaway trim. Next I wanted to physically touch the manual trim wheel to verify it is not running. I asked the pilot training to begin a descent as my PFD did not show a descent and we were loosing airspeed. He was likely answering me while looking at descent rate. This aircraft has two completely separate airspeed systems and I wanted to confirm the speed on both sides to be matched. We likely got in a downdraft.. 2000ft per minute at one point . As the medical profession is trained to “FIRST, do no harm”, so should pilots. Fly Safely - Train Often .. DR
In general I was always told to turn off the autopilot and hand fly the airplane when gaining ice so you can feel the airplane
@@RWRPilotTraining Not sure I agree with your assessment in this case. The yoke did not indicate that the AP was reacting with a continuous nose up pitch to the icing event. While I cannot see the trim wheel, the assumption is that AP was merely reacting to the turbulence. Also worthy to note that FL250 is the top of the aircraft service ceiling if I am not mistaken. When you disengaged, re-entered a known icing level with a down elevator, the danger was greater for elevator lock because now the elevator has departed its neutral position and may lock nose down. Using the trim (AKA allowing AP to manage the descent or manual if you wanted) eliminates that scenario. You can more likely recover from a frozen trim than a down elevator position. Attempting a simultaneous AP disengage and descent (regardless what the PFD says) ignores the aerodynamic factors you were encountering. It just seemed you were reacting to icing but not taking into account the turbulence will do crazy things to IAS, in this case appeared that the decrease in airspeed was temporary due to turbulence and not icing. As you know, IAS is more sensitive at altitude and TAS is sometimes a better indicator as to how the aircraft will react. I think it would have been better to stabalize the aircraft, be aware of the IAS, and then make the adjustments to altitude. Still a lot of good lessons in this brief video, thanks for posting. Hopefully you reported a PIREP after that as well.
The POH wants the AP off in icing encounters.. I agree with this. Fly Safely - Train Often .. DR
@@RWRPilotTraining and what does the POH say about maximum altitude without YD engaged? Disengaging AP in the flight levels, where hand flying is much more difficult, in moderate turbulence and icing conditions beyond the capability of the airplane, the odds are stacking against you very quickly. Best thing you can do is reduce workload as much as you can, if you need to initiate the descent manually because you're not proficient enough to do it quickly using AP then so be it, but let bob take the wheel quickly thereafter so you can focus on where the plane is going and keep the wings flying. I believe the situation would have been exponentially worse had you not been there in that cockpit, and if he was single pilot attempting to balance all this. There is a reason why part 135 autopilot proficiency is required for single-pilot IFR operations. Shame part 91 isn't quite as strict when it comes to safety.
What's the context? Is that a FIKI airplane and or turbine or piston? How to manage that if you have to also keep an eye on CHTs as well? Or so you disregard those in such an event?
@@markusp1788 Hi Mark, The PA46 Malibu Mirage is a FIKI equipped 350 HP piston aircraft. No power changes were required since airspeed was maintained by starting a descent. Engine temperature does increase slightly when operating with alternate induction air open which is standard practice when operating in the presence of visible moisture. Fly Safely - Train Often .. DR
Sound a little out of control from instructor stand point.
.. a little