It is worth pointing out that Revan, apart from even Malak, started dabbling in the dark side during the Mandalorian Wars because of his own search for answers, not just for the sake of victory. "Perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war."
So Kreia said, Revan knew the only way to defeat the dark side was to understand it, however she never eluded that he had a plan to come back from the Dark side. And let us not forget, she herself fell and only ‘returned’ when her connection to the force was taken. Which she held a huge chip, dare I say a dark side bent, ‘kills Jedi Masters for revenge’. I don’t think she is the one we should really trust for understandings and proper guidance on how not to fall to the Dark side. Just saying. 😂
Yeah, I’ve always felt the same. Of course I like the yellow lightsaber blades as well and as we’ve never received an official explanation for orange sabers, which I also like, my head cannon sort of expanded the lore connected with Windu’s purple saber, such that if Windu was a Sentinel instead of a guardian, then his saber would be orange (red + blue = purple, but red + yellow = orange.)
I would have thought Yoda more of a consular. He's one of the best with the lightsaber but he focused more on introspection. I would have thought Anakin would be the better choice of a Sentinel since he was adept at mechanics and other crafts outside of normal Jedi skills.
@@balvarine8709 yah but how many people try to ignore that because swtor's lore kinda ruins revan as a character. Not that you arnt right..... Just god I try to ignore anything swtor says about revan.
@@Legion-ov6jr k dude here is how it happened, he got mind controlled, the star forge allowed him to break free and then he chose the dark side like a tool
Ignoring the SWTOR lore, because it trashes the awesome storytelling of Kotor2. Yes, Revan chose the Dark Side because the Jedi couldn't win against the True Sith, but another Sith faction could. Don't get me wrong I love SWTOR. But Kotor 1 and 2 had superb storytelling and lore building before SWTOR came in and flipped the table.
@@Vazkiel this a million times this. Swtor is good but anytime it contradicts Kotor I side with Kotor canon. And technically due to Lucas old canon hierarchy I want to think a single player crafted experience vs an mmo is more canon in this setting.... Even if it's just for me.
I would have to question if Qui Gon Jin was a guardian. It seems more to me that he was a sentinel as he let the force guide his every action, but had more resolve, and immediate action than that of a consular.
He followed a faith and belief in the force to drive him.. But that doesnt decide a sentinel.. Most of Qui-gons training and Mastery was that of lightsaber combat.. which is within the Guardian doctrine.. Even if he was a perceivably different Jedi through philosophy. But Philosophy alone didnt often dictate your place in the order.
He's technically still a guardian, as his skill sets & assignments lean heavily towards combat, often having to brandish his lightsaber for one reason or another. But unlike many jedi guardians who're straight up gung ho warriors & little else, he has the studious, reserved nature of consulars, & the inquisitive, independent side of sentinels. Still, once again, it's ultimately what you do that defines you, instead of the attitude & mindset you take.
I'm not going to lie, seeing Star Wars depicted in a still taken from a modded Skyrim was joyous. It was the crossing of streams of two of my favorite ips.
There's a cool mod set in a sort of crossover universe, Invasion of Skyrim. Don't know the exact plot atm but basically Nirn is a planet drenched in the Force and Thrawn wants to conquer it. I tried it out but sadly it was rather unstable back then, definitely recommend it though!
Quinlan is a sentinel. About the fallen mentioned... yes and no. Kun, Revan, Dooku and Anakin are spot on with your description. Ulic was essentially mind washed into following the dark side and Malak... he was pushed/pulled by Revan. Revans charisma is THAT impactful.
@@Theonewhogoesbothways yeah, right. There was a retcon. Tbh I believe their fall did start in the mandalorian war and Vitiate only turned them from dark siders to full blown sith-lords.
The prophesy came later, but there isn't one chosen one, it's a repeating phenomenon caused by the force trying to balance itself (notice they existed in the same circumstances, a crumbling republic and Jedi order blind to the growing shadows). So they were both the chosen one and they weren't the only ones history will keep repeating. they existed and had the strength to do what they did because they needed to to bring balance.
Simple, Revan was not born from a virgin mother. In George's canon it was indeed one the oldest prophecies and there was only one Chosen One, who would destroy the Sith completely.
@DragonHeero If I remember correctly, in the expanded lore Revan unified the Light and Dark sides of the Force and brought them into harmony in how he wielded the Force. Sure, not on the grand scale, but still. Killing off one side's practitioners is not balance. That's the opposite of balance. What Revan did is balance. Hell, it's better than balance.
I expected it to be Jedi Guardians when I saw the title. It is just a heavy dose of irony that Jedi Guardians had the greatest risk of falling to the dark side, which leads to them trying to control the galaxy and destroy the Jedi.
Figured would be Guardians or any the other Warrior/Guardian classes seeing as if there was any sorts of combat they're gonna most frequently see it one would think. BUT as a whole also figured Jedi would assume falling to the enemy side would be a risk comes with the territory. Guardians are about as Soldier class of Jedi as Jedis can get
Yeah... the tendency of the Jedi Guardians to be on the front lines of everything does lend itself to wannabe heroes who can lose sight of the things they are fighting for... and some will indeed stare into the abyss for too long. But there would be another simpler reason why more Jedi Guardians fell to the Dark Side than Sentinels or Consulars is quite simply because there are way more Guardians than Sentinels or Consulars. Anyway, my main in SWTOR is a Jedi Guardian and he is pretty much a paragon of the Light Side. It's interesting that of late I have found the Jedi and Sith classes focused on lightsaber combat with a single lightsaber to be the most fun... namely the Guardian and Juggernaut, you would expect the dual-wielding Sentinels and Marauders or the double-bladed wielding Shadows or Assassins to be the most fun because it's dual wielding and double blades. I guess the longer I am a Star Wars fan, the more I appreciate the purity of combat with just one blade. I also found Jedi the Fallen Order easier to play with just the single blade instead of the double blade.
I knew the answer before clicking. It's pretty obvious when you have three classes and that one is devoted to keeping the peace through words, another can fight but would still prefer to handle things peacefully and then the third is running around making *SWINGSWING* sounds with their mouths and wondering when the next time they'll get to fight a Sith who the one most likely to fall is.
I think there's an argument to be made that these Jedi were also more likely to be exposed to the Dark Side in more personal moments. They searched for the Dark Side, dealt with it's users often, had to listen to and see their actions and achievements, and follow the trail of destruction. Even a pure heart can be corrupted it isn't careful, and these guys would be under a pretty frequent low grade stress even when they weren't dealing with the high grade stress as often. It likely wouldn't take a huge oversight to allow a single seed of the Dark Side to plant itself in their hearts, and it may take even less to not realize that it's there until it's rooted
Ive always been mystified by the sheer volume of potential that every consular faces on their own quest and growth with the force... You may never have the master of the lightsaber like your peers.. But you can influence and protect that which is around you without ever igniting that saber.. The sheer volume of impact an incredibly talented consular may learn... Can have a massive butterfly effect.. (For good or ill...)
A knight it's sworn to valor, His heart knows only virtue, his blade defends the helpless, His might upholds the weak, His words speaks only truth, Has wrath on does the wicked! Remember knights, there is no shame in a fall, The only shame is not to rise once more.
In truth the Jedi Order were always tempted by the Dark Side, and I believe that the Guardians were more easily target by the Dark Side. Both the Sentinels and the Counselors were more used to using the Force, but the Guardians using their physical strength demands extreme control over their emotions.
>be me, has anger issues >become Jedi Guardian >become weapons master >fall to the Dark Side >cause such destruction across the galaxy that the only way to rebuild is without corruption >go to Sith hell >WAIT NO
Jedi Sentinels have been my favorite since I first learned about them. I've always been a jack of all trades type and given the hybrid, unconventional, nature of Sentinels I expect they were also the most likely sect to leave the Jedi Order. The problem with Guardians and many other things in our world is the underlying assumptions of their beliefs. Guardians believe themselves to be guardians, which has the underlying assumption that people are unequal and need saving. Sentinels and Counselors have their own belief systems with the underlying assumption that all are equal and capable of caring for themselves in either helpful or hurtful ways. Counselors have their own issue of believing that they know more than everyone else, which is annoying but not as much of an issue as the Guardians. Sentinels biggest issue is hunting evil to the point of obsession and beginning to believe that everyone is actually evil.
Originally thought "Jedi Guardians" due to their combativeness and closeness to conflict in general. Right on the money on that, alongside other commenters. Gotta say, though, I really pity them for their vulnerability to the Dark Side; it also reminds me of the Slytherins from the Wizarding World.
Yeah, one, Revan didn’t fall, he choose that, second he didn’t do all that to defeat the Mandolorians. He used that as a tool, to get the republic ready for vitiate.
My favorite sect/class of Jedi has and will always be the Jedi Sentinel. They were (at least to me) more well rounded in their approach to the Force, to combat, and general tactics. I agree that Jedi Guardians some times had a hero complex, and those with the hero complex would often fall to the dark side because they couldn't save all of the people they wanted/needed to save or didn't accomplish the goals they set out to accomplish.
Hmm. So, basically, what is happening here is that, the brightest light casts a darker shadow. There is, or was considering what era you're talking about, a large amount of people who are your typical Jedi heroes but they were more susceptible to the Dark Side than any other Jedi.
At the risk of sounding pedantic, the guardian and consular classes were in the Star Wars d20 RPG that more or less shared rules with D&D 3.5. KOTOR was based on that RPG. I'm sure anyone that plays D&D immediately recognizes it.
The actual conversation between Obi Wan and myself was that I said the ends will justify the means and he said that he would always have the moral high ground
I think Jedi derived from Jeddah, a middle-east city where light (not heavy) swords displays were worth mentionning in the "Around The World Program" you-stick-the-picture-stamps encyclopedia by the National Geaographic Society, Nelson-Doubleday, 1971.
Sentinels for sure are my favorite, plus the yellow sabers just seem badass. I always thought the temple guards had dope armor and the golden yellow glow from their sabers were a nice touch to the whole ensemble. Consulars would have been my second choice. Been trying to find a Veridian crystal in KOTOR II but no luck yet. I do like the Cyan crystal tho. It's funny tho, because even without the green saber, I would have thought qui-gon was a Consular. Just the way he is seems like a diplomat and someone who focusses more on the wisdom and philosophy rather than the physical capabilities. Interesting. I could have definitely seen him to possibly be a sentinel tho. Now I wonder what sect/class Quinlan Vos was
It's the nature of his training & assignments that ultimately defined him as a guardian, as regardless of his approach to things, his training leans heavily towards combat & assignments mostly involve brandishing his lightsaber after all. But as you've noted, he's atypical as a guardian as his attitude & mindset leans considerably towards that of either consular or sentinel.
Can’t believe you didn’t even mention Jacen Solo when you were talking about various fallen Jedi, his thought process was basically verbatim what you said
I believe Revan was a Sentinel. In part cause it's specifically emphasized in several sources that Malak was more of a dedicated swordsman than he was. In fact, I can't find a source citing Revan to be a Guardian and the info we do know about him suggest more so either a Consular or a Sentinel. Although, Malak was absolutely a Guardian. It is emphasized that he was kind of a big dumb brute, but a very talented big dumb brute.
actually, I like Guardian or the old republic Sith Equivalent (Juggernaut/Marauder) best. Maybe because Revan was Guardian. Maybe because I am just like that: fighting desperately against injustice, and becoming either apathic ("apathy is death") or burnt out in the process...
Sentinels, I know so very little about their roles other than hunting down dark side threats. What are some of there adventures? Do they have a creed or principles that govern their sect? If so what are they and why? Yeah I would really love to know much more about the Jedi Sentinels. Thanks ✌🏿
Ummm I think Revan was a Sentinel... Scout to Sentinel was the only class that could unlock all dialogue options with party members including HK-47 so if Revan was a Jedi Guardian then HK--47 never got his memory unlocked... Sentinel also has high persuasion, lock pick, and hacking.... Without these skills there are a ton of KOTOR storyline that can't be unlocked.. Sentinel has a massive stack of skill points vs Guardians and consluars.
The focus here is the underlying philosophies that define these classes, not gameplay mechanics. It's ultimately what the jedi DOES that define their classes, not how they tend to go about things. For one thing, sentinels DON'T go about waging wars against anyone by standing at the very forefront, directing armies & whatnot. That's what guardians do. Period. His arsenal of skills greater than that of a usual guardian simply means that he tend to be less crazy about combat than your usual guardian, & speech check stats being noticeably higher than usual serves as an indication of his off-the-charts charisma.
Wonder how Jedi Sentinels falling to the dark side would be. They go too far in their search for balance between the classes that they lose sight and destroy themselves attempting to perfect what they lack? That or they become so enveloped in their hunt for evil that they themselves cross the line and become evil? I know Consulars fall to the Dark side when they ignore the will of the force and become perpetuosly arrogant
My favorite sect is definitely the Guardians, however I personally believe the Consular sect to be most essential in many regards. Personally I think the practice of having a Jedi Consular as master and a Jedi Guardian as apprentice often yielded the greatest results... The young guardian forced the older consular to get off his ass and become more hands on than many consulars tended to be (their greatest weakness), and the older consular put the breaks on and not only applied but also taught the young guardian the wisdom of diplomacy and resolution vs idealistic escalation in the name of justice. It's win win, however I truly would see myself more as a combination of these two rather than specializing in one or the other (and honestly believe there should have been combination sects... Consular Guardians, Consular Sentinels, and Guardian Sentinels). Frankly I feel the compartmentalization of the Star Wars universe often became it's downfall, and that more integrated as well as integrating parties would have been far more helpful than any one specialization.
If they are the most prevalent group of Jedi then most fallen Jedi would come from them just purely based on numbers. You need actual numbers of each and the number of fallen from each to be able to conclusively say that there's a trend.
Ok attention Sergeant on Deck is not right. Sergeants are NCOs. That phrase is used for commissioned officers like Ensigns, Lieutenants, Commanders, Captains, Admirals and the ranks there of like Lieu Jr grade, Lieu, Lieu Commander, Commander, Captain, Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral, etc all the way to Admiral of the Navy. Sergeants are Army, Marine Corps, and Air Force, Enlisted ranks. Enlisted in the Navy starts with Seamen to Master Chief. Btw the High Republic is a total fail
I'm definitely team Jedi Consular. Even though I am not a pacifist I believe that conflicts can rarely be solved by use of force (just force - not The Force lol). If you defeat your enemy, you haven't solved the underlying problem, you've only taken your enemy's ability to keep fighting. And as soon as your enemy regains his capability to fight, the conflict is going to reignite. The winners of WW1 tried to punish Germany and look how that turned out... And even if you end up victorious, war and armed conflict always create pain and suffering on both sides. So it is best for everyone involved to avoid it altogether. Lastly, two wrongs don't make one right. Killing a murderer is still murder (unless it is a self denfense situation but you know what I am trying to say). When you follow this "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" attitude in dealing out punishment you run a high risk of becoming as bad as the enemy you swore to fight.
Jedi shadows were most often adaptations of the Sect of Sentinel.. They use many skills in a blend just as sentinels do.. However there is a deeper connection to the Dark side innately rather than normal sentinels.. But the amount of shadows are still vastly outnumbered by Fallen Guardians..
The sequels would have been so much better if after Qui Gon is killed Dooku insists on teaching Anakin. Instead of Maul staying to kill Obi Wan he could have left him there and gone looking for Anakin and after not finding him leaving. Maul could have then served as the leader of the Separatist along with Grevious and Dooku and Anakin could have been a group. Dooku's feelings against the Jedi could have been slowly introduced to Anakin so that as he ages he slowly begins to mistrust the Jedi and instead of going "killing isn't the Jedi way" to "Here's Annie" for the younglings he could been slowly drawn into Darkside with Dooku. Windu could be responsible for Dooku's death which could have lead to Anakin's attacking him and Sidious could have killed Windu saving Anakin's life. Windu attacking Anakin could be the final straw that turned him to the Darkside and in the hands of Sidious who would have orchestrated both Windu's attack on Dooku and Windu's attack on Anakin. Obi Wan could take out Maul and Yoda could take out Grevious. Anakin could be injured trying to get to Padme versus her coming to him. Padme could have lived through childbirth and for a while with Luke and Leia before feeling her presence was putting her children into too much danger at which point she would leave Leia with Organa and Luke with Owen and Beru and she could have stayed near Leia on Alderon while Obi Wan was near Luke on Tatooine. Yoda could still fight with Sidious and after reaching a draw be forced to leave and peace out to Dagobah. Order 66 could have been handled differently with most Jedi not going down like punks and instead of being a hot mess the prequels could be a group of cinematic joy.
Before even watching the video i can say for sure that the class/sect that had the least amount of Jedi falling to the Dark Side by FAR are the Consular Jedis. Now between the Guardian and Sentinals i'm not sure, maybe the Guardians but to be fair there's a LOT more of them then Sentinals, so that would be a major reason why, not sure it's fair to say it's them without at least addressing that fact.
Sentinels, given the nature of their jobs, tend to be more introspective, or at least, neutral for most part. They do tend to get exposed to darker side of things or people, yet they're also more likely to process their feelings about things, & note what's wrong with them inside, or at least they wouldn't care about the whole light vs dark thing so long as they get the job done, with bursts of intensely negative emotions being rare. Staying hidden most of the time also mean that sentinels don't get to be heroes, & that would mean only those who care least about glory & fame, potent factors leading one down the dark path, would consider being sentinels.
![Who were REALLY the "Good Guys" of the Clone Wars [Best Faction]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Kd5nBneqtFc/mqdefault.jpg)
That weird Padawan in your class: I like you, you're cool. Don't come to the Jedi Temple tomorrow.
Does that padawan happen to be named skywalker?
@Darth Revan the jedi order is a texas Catholic school confirmed.
Why shouldn't I Bariss?
You can't tell me what to do!
I think my illum crystal would turn out to be blue.
Great video about great topic 💪.
It is worth pointing out that Revan, apart from even Malak, started dabbling in the dark side during the Mandalorian Wars because of his own search for answers, not just for the sake of victory.
"Perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war."
Well said
Is that quote from kreia?
@@guillegarcia7146 Yep, she's a goldmine for enigmatic quotations.
@@Shuddarun check out papito quinn on yt. He's vids on kotor 2 and series on kreia and her philosophy are amazing
So Kreia said, Revan knew the only way to defeat the dark side was to understand it, however she never eluded that he had a plan to come back from the Dark side. And let us not forget, she herself fell and only ‘returned’ when her connection to the force was taken. Which she held a huge chip, dare I say a dark side bent, ‘kills Jedi Masters for revenge’. I don’t think she is the one we should really trust for understandings and proper guidance on how not to fall to the Dark side. Just saying. 😂
Dude, when I see a picture of Malak without his metal jaw, it's just horrific!
How does he eat!?
@@AndreNitroX ugh, I don't want to imagine that.
*shudders*
Nightmare fuel.
@@geetslys yes
I always had a soft spot for Jedi Sentinels, nice balance between the Guardians and Consulars in my opinion.
Yeah, I’ve always felt the same. Of course I like the yellow lightsaber blades as well and as we’ve never received an official explanation for orange sabers, which I also like, my head cannon sort of expanded the lore connected with Windu’s purple saber, such that if Windu was a Sentinel instead of a guardian, then his saber would be orange (red + blue = purple, but red + yellow = orange.)
The jedi should have just replace the Guardians with the Sentinels.
The Sentinels.
When properly utilized, it’s pure Yoda style combat
FACTS
@@geetslys 11 years of Swtor experience
I would have thought Yoda more of a consular. He's one of the best with the lightsaber but he focused more on introspection. I would have thought Anakin would be the better choice of a Sentinel since he was adept at mechanics and other crafts outside of normal Jedi skills.
@@cchavezjr7 yoda is a consular. he is talking about something else
@@cchavezjr7 factual
If I remember correctly revan didn’t fall to the dark side so much as he CHOSE it, like you would a tool
More like got his brain scrambled by the last surviving Sith Lord from the Great Hyperspace War.
@@balvarine8709 yah but how many people try to ignore that because swtor's lore kinda ruins revan as a character. Not that you arnt right..... Just god I try to ignore anything swtor says about revan.
@@Legion-ov6jr k dude here is how it happened, he got mind controlled, the star forge allowed him to break free and then he chose the dark side like a tool
Ignoring the SWTOR lore, because it trashes the awesome storytelling of Kotor2. Yes, Revan chose the Dark Side because the Jedi couldn't win against the True Sith, but another Sith faction could.
Don't get me wrong I love SWTOR. But Kotor 1 and 2 had superb storytelling and lore building before SWTOR came in and flipped the table.
@@Vazkiel this a million times this. Swtor is good but anytime it contradicts Kotor I side with Kotor canon. And technically due to Lucas old canon hierarchy I want to think a single player crafted experience vs an mmo is more canon in this setting.... Even if it's just for me.
I would have to question if Qui Gon Jin was a guardian. It seems more to me that he was a sentinel as he let the force guide his every action, but had more resolve, and immediate action than that of a consular.
He followed a faith and belief in the force to drive him.. But that doesnt decide a sentinel.. Most of Qui-gons training and Mastery was that of lightsaber combat.. which is within the Guardian doctrine.. Even if he was a perceivably different Jedi through philosophy. But Philosophy alone didnt often dictate your place in the order.
I thought he wasn't a Guardian because his lightsaber was green, but I see I still have much to learn, young padawan
He's technically still a guardian, as his skill sets & assignments lean heavily towards combat, often having to brandish his lightsaber for one reason or another. But unlike many jedi guardians who're straight up gung ho warriors & little else, he has the studious, reserved nature of consulars, & the inquisitive, independent side of sentinels. Still, once again, it's ultimately what you do that defines you, instead of the attitude & mindset you take.
I thought it was Anakin's hatred of sand that led to his fall to the dark side with how it was course and rough and got everywhere
Or the chosen one of the Jedi order
indeed, fuck sand
Anakin hated sand because it was
course, rough and got everywhere.
But then he became a sith lord who was course, rough and got everywhere.
I'm not going to lie, seeing Star Wars depicted in a still taken from a modded Skyrim was joyous. It was the crossing of streams of two of my favorite ips.
Haha
There's a cool mod set in a sort of crossover universe, Invasion of Skyrim. Don't know the exact plot atm but basically Nirn is a planet drenched in the Force and Thrawn wants to conquer it. I tried it out but sadly it was rather unstable back then, definitely recommend it though!
Quinlan is a sentinel. About the fallen mentioned... yes and no. Kun, Revan, Dooku and Anakin are spot on with your description. Ulic was essentially mind washed into following the dark side and Malak... he was pushed/pulled by Revan. Revans charisma is THAT impactful.
Wasn’t raven and Malak Brainwash by darth vitiate
@@Theonewhogoesbothways yeah, right. There was a retcon. Tbh I believe their fall did start in the mandalorian war and Vitiate only turned them from dark siders to full blown sith-lords.
Ulic’s fall had absolutely nothing to do with Revan or Malak, what the hell are you talking abkut
@@stephenmier7277 I... never claimed it had. Re-read my comment, maybe.
How come the Jedi order didn’t think Revan was the chosen one after he redeemed himself? Anakin wasn’t around back then so…
The prophesy of the Chosen One might not have been around or well known
@Angello Rivera-Hurtado there is no sequel trilogy in ba-sing-se, Anakin killed the last sith
The prophesy came later, but there isn't one chosen one, it's a repeating phenomenon caused by the force trying to balance itself (notice they existed in the same circumstances, a crumbling republic and Jedi order blind to the growing shadows). So they were both the chosen one and they weren't the only ones history will keep repeating. they existed and had the strength to do what they did because they needed to to bring balance.
Simple, Revan was not born from a virgin mother. In George's canon it was indeed one the oldest prophecies and there was only one Chosen One, who would destroy the Sith completely.
@DragonHeero If I remember correctly, in the expanded lore Revan unified the Light and Dark sides of the Force and brought them into harmony in how he wielded the Force. Sure, not on the grand scale, but still. Killing off one side's practitioners is not balance. That's the opposite of balance. What Revan did is balance. Hell, it's better than balance.
I expected it to be Jedi Guardians when I saw the title. It is just a heavy dose of irony that Jedi Guardians had the greatest risk of falling to the dark side, which leads to them trying to control the galaxy and destroy the Jedi.
Figured would be Guardians or any the other Warrior/Guardian classes seeing as if there was any sorts of combat they're gonna most frequently see it one would think. BUT as a whole also figured Jedi would assume falling to the enemy side would be a risk comes with the territory.
Guardians are about as Soldier class of Jedi as Jedis can get
When Jedi fall to the dark side is never a good thing That will cause a major problem for the Jedi order in the galaxy itself
What a controversial opinion.
Guardians: The brightest light casts the darkest shadows
Yeah... the tendency of the Jedi Guardians to be on the front lines of everything does lend itself to wannabe heroes who can lose sight of the things they are fighting for... and some will indeed stare into the abyss for too long.
But there would be another simpler reason why more Jedi Guardians fell to the Dark Side than Sentinels or Consulars is quite simply because there are way more Guardians than Sentinels or Consulars.
Anyway, my main in SWTOR is a Jedi Guardian and he is pretty much a paragon of the Light Side. It's interesting that of late I have found the Jedi and Sith classes focused on lightsaber combat with a single lightsaber to be the most fun... namely the Guardian and Juggernaut, you would expect the dual-wielding Sentinels and Marauders or the double-bladed wielding Shadows or Assassins to be the most fun because it's dual wielding and double blades.
I guess the longer I am a Star Wars fan, the more I appreciate the purity of combat with just one blade. I also found Jedi the Fallen Order easier to play with just the single blade instead of the double blade.
I knew the answer before clicking. It's pretty obvious when you have three classes and that one is devoted to keeping the peace through words, another can fight but would still prefer to handle things peacefully and then the third is running around making *SWINGSWING* sounds with their mouths and wondering when the next time they'll get to fight a Sith who the one most likely to fall is.
I think there's an argument to be made that these Jedi were also more likely to be exposed to the Dark Side in more personal moments. They searched for the Dark Side, dealt with it's users often, had to listen to and see their actions and achievements, and follow the trail of destruction.
Even a pure heart can be corrupted it isn't careful, and these guys would be under a pretty frequent low grade stress even when they weren't dealing with the high grade stress as often. It likely wouldn't take a huge oversight to allow a single seed of the Dark Side to plant itself in their hearts, and it may take even less to not realize that it's there until it's rooted
Ive always been mystified by the sheer volume of potential that every consular faces on their own quest and growth with the force... You may never have the master of the lightsaber like your peers.. But you can influence and protect that which is around you without ever igniting that saber.. The sheer volume of impact an incredibly talented consular may learn... Can have a massive butterfly effect.. (For good or ill...)
A knight it's sworn to valor,
His heart knows only virtue,
his blade defends the helpless,
His might upholds the weak,
His words speaks only truth,
Has wrath on does the wicked!
Remember knights, there is no shame in a fall,
The only shame is not to rise once more.
In truth the Jedi Order were always tempted by the Dark Side, and I believe that the Guardians were more easily target by the Dark Side. Both the Sentinels and the Counselors were more used to using the Force, but the Guardians using their physical strength demands extreme control over their emotions.
>be me, has anger issues
>become Jedi Guardian
>become weapons master
>fall to the Dark Side
>cause such destruction across the galaxy that the only way to rebuild is without corruption
>go to Sith hell
>WAIT NO
Well, you've talked about Sentinals and Guardians, all we're missing now is a video on Consolers.
Consulars. Gotta love that class for its tact and dialogue extras.
In the works ;)
Jedi Sentinels have been my favorite since I first learned about them. I've always been a jack of all trades type and given the hybrid, unconventional, nature of Sentinels I expect they were also the most likely sect to leave the Jedi Order.
The problem with Guardians and many other things in our world is the underlying assumptions of their beliefs. Guardians believe themselves to be guardians, which has the underlying assumption that people are unequal and need saving. Sentinels and Counselors have their own belief systems with the underlying assumption that all are equal and capable of caring for themselves in either helpful or hurtful ways. Counselors have their own issue of believing that they know more than everyone else, which is annoying but not as much of an issue as the Guardians. Sentinels biggest issue is hunting evil to the point of obsession and beginning to believe that everyone is actually evil.
Originally thought "Jedi Guardians" due to their combativeness and closeness to conflict in general.
Right on the money on that, alongside other commenters.
Gotta say, though, I really pity them for their vulnerability to the Dark Side; it also reminds me of the Slytherins from the Wizarding World.
I've always been more of a fan of Jedi Consulars over the other sects.
Me too.
I feel like the Jedi Consulars are the closest to what a Jedi should be.
Ironic. The coolest Jedi sect also makes the majority of soon-to-be Sith
Another good quote regarding susceptibility to the dark side is "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
Yeah, one, Revan didn’t fall, he choose that, second he didn’t do all that to defeat the Mandolorians. He used that as a tool, to get the republic ready for vitiate.
If I was a Jedi Guardian, yeah, I'd also fall to the dark side.
Not me...
Sentinel hands down I Love playing as one in SWTOR and they so underrated at that
My favorite sect/class of Jedi has and will always be the Jedi Sentinel. They were (at least to me) more well rounded in their approach to the Force, to combat, and general tactics. I agree that Jedi Guardians some times had a hero complex, and those with the hero complex would often fall to the dark side because they couldn't save all of the people they wanted/needed to save or didn't accomplish the goals they set out to accomplish.
To be fair Ullik Keldroma was forced to become a Darksider
Hmm. So, basically, what is happening here is that, the brightest light casts a darker shadow. There is, or was considering what era you're talking about, a large amount of people who are your typical Jedi heroes but they were more susceptible to the Dark Side than any other Jedi.
Guardian is mine and yes that was the exact reason I fell to the Darkside.
Oh! I like Jedi Sentinels. They just seem to be the type of class I would gravitate towards. Lots of skills that I can mesh together.
At the risk of sounding pedantic, the guardian and consular classes were in the Star Wars d20 RPG that more or less shared rules with D&D 3.5. KOTOR was based on that RPG. I'm sure anyone that plays D&D immediately recognizes it.
Those were my favorite, guardian and consular
The actual conversation between Obi Wan and myself was that I said the ends will justify the means and he said that he would always have the moral high ground
He's Obi-Wan. He has all the high grounds.
One example of a Fallen Jedi that was not a Guardian was Padawan Jaesa Willsaam who was a Consular before her fall.
I think Jedi derived from Jeddah, a middle-east city where light (not heavy) swords displays were worth mentionning in the "Around The World Program" you-stick-the-picture-stamps encyclopedia by the National Geaographic Society, Nelson-Doubleday, 1971.
Road to hell quote is spot on
Don't forget Taron Malicos, my personal favorite canon story of crusading Jedi Gaurdians.
True. Even the best can change.
0:56: Actually, people are talking about Revan actually choosing to go to the Dark Side more than this.
Sentinel and how many mandolorian jedi and sith were there in the old republic era
Geetsly: the smallest sect the Jedi sentinels
Me: Hold up there the smallest sect is the Samuel L. Jackson sect
Purple ftw
@@ThinWhiteAxe yes
This video was so cohesive and well made, I enjoyed it a great deal.
favorite class has to be guardian heading toward weapon master. Always been my favorite.
Sentinels for sure are my favorite, plus the yellow sabers just seem badass. I always thought the temple guards had dope armor and the golden yellow glow from their sabers were a nice touch to the whole ensemble.
Consulars would have been my second choice.
Been trying to find a Veridian crystal in KOTOR II but no luck yet.
I do like the Cyan crystal tho.
It's funny tho, because even without the green saber, I would have thought qui-gon was a Consular. Just the way he is seems like a diplomat and someone who focusses more on the wisdom and philosophy rather than the physical capabilities. Interesting.
I could have definitely seen him to possibly be a sentinel tho.
Now I wonder what sect/class Quinlan Vos was
It's the nature of his training & assignments that ultimately defined him as a guardian, as regardless of his approach to things, his training leans heavily towards combat & assignments mostly involve brandishing his lightsaber after all. But as you've noted, he's atypical as a guardian as his attitude & mindset leans considerably towards that of either consular or sentinel.
Can’t believe you didn’t even mention Jacen Solo when you were talking about various fallen Jedi, his thought process was basically verbatim what you said
Every family has a black sheep.
"There is a fine line between justice and revenge"..? No, there is no line.
Damn that was a good Darth Vader painting in the beginning
I believe Revan was a Sentinel. In part cause it's specifically emphasized in several sources that Malak was more of a dedicated swordsman than he was. In fact, I can't find a source citing Revan to be a Guardian and the info we do know about him suggest more so either a Consular or a Sentinel. Although, Malak was absolutely a Guardian. It is emphasized that he was kind of a big dumb brute, but a very talented big dumb brute.
i was a huge nerd with the jedi path book so when i saw it in swtor i thought "Bioware" copied it.
Definitely wanna be a Jedi Guardian. Victims > aggressors but if I can't help the victims, someone's gonna get Anakin'ed.
Kreia and Atris were consular darksiders
This is a great video. I always wondered do all the battle loving jedi fall to the dark side or is it just the curious ones
Im pretty sure the Sentinel is focused on being hardier than the other Jedi. Both mentally and physically. They can resist mind tricks and poison.
*Sentinels exist*
Palpy:
I don't like sentinels.
4:08 - Oh, really? I would never even think that Qui gon wqs a guardian xd. He doesn't act like one.
very good video your right jedi guardians had hardest of all order of jedi
actually, I like Guardian or the old republic Sith Equivalent (Juggernaut/Marauder) best. Maybe because Revan was Guardian. Maybe because I am just like that: fighting desperately against injustice, and becoming either apathic ("apathy is death") or burnt out in the process...
I like the Jedi Guardian and Consulars the best. Seeing as how I like swordsmanship I think guardian would suit me best.
Sentinels, I know so very little about their roles other than hunting down dark side threats. What are some of there adventures? Do they have a creed or principles that govern their sect? If so what are they and why? Yeah I would really love to know much more about the Jedi Sentinels. Thanks ✌🏿
Ummm I think Revan was a Sentinel... Scout to Sentinel was the only class that could unlock all dialogue options with party members including HK-47 so if Revan was a Jedi Guardian then HK--47 never got his memory unlocked... Sentinel also has high persuasion, lock pick, and hacking.... Without these skills there are a ton of KOTOR storyline that can't be unlocked.. Sentinel has a massive stack of skill points vs Guardians and consluars.
The focus here is the underlying philosophies that define these classes, not gameplay mechanics. It's ultimately what the jedi DOES that define their classes, not how they tend to go about things. For one thing, sentinels DON'T go about waging wars against anyone by standing at the very forefront, directing armies & whatnot. That's what guardians do. Period.
His arsenal of skills greater than that of a usual guardian simply means that he tend to be less crazy about combat than your usual guardian, & speech check stats being noticeably higher than usual serves as an indication of his off-the-charts charisma.
Well to be fair in KOTOR Revan is retrained as a consular
*Can be. I tend to do a Sentinel build for Revan when I play it, but people can choose either of the three.
Be careful when you battle with monsters, lest you become one yourself.
I thought Voss was a sentinel not guardian he's a spy 🤔
Wonder how Jedi Sentinels falling to the dark side would be. They go too far in their search for balance between the classes that they lose sight and destroy themselves attempting to perfect what they lack? That or they become so enveloped in their hunt for evil that they themselves cross the line and become evil? I know Consulars fall to the Dark side when they ignore the will of the force and become perpetuosly arrogant
My favorite sect is definitely the Guardians, however I personally believe the Consular sect to be most essential in many regards.
Personally I think the practice of having a Jedi Consular as master and a Jedi Guardian as apprentice often yielded the greatest results... The young guardian forced the older consular to get off his ass and become more hands on than many consulars tended to be (their greatest weakness), and the older consular put the breaks on and not only applied but also taught the young guardian the wisdom of diplomacy and resolution vs idealistic escalation in the name of justice. It's win win, however I truly would see myself more as a combination of these two rather than specializing in one or the other (and honestly believe there should have been combination sects... Consular Guardians, Consular Sentinels, and Guardian Sentinels). Frankly I feel the compartmentalization of the Star Wars universe often became it's downfall, and that more integrated as well as integrating parties would have been far more helpful than any one specialization.
lmao that mod. "FORCE RO DAH!"
Consulars. Dig that living force lol
Anonymous Revanchist
“How dare we call ourselves guardians when we sit here in the protection of our temple while the outer rim burns”
If they are the most prevalent group of Jedi then most fallen Jedi would come from them just purely based on numbers. You need actual numbers of each and the number of fallen from each to be able to conclusively say that there's a trend.
That's how I play my Skyrim too lol
People don't appreciate how much lore tgey leaned on in kotor. Disney doesn't have same level of appreciation
didn't know quigon was a guardian seems like he was one of the Jedi who understood the force best in his era
"GRey JEdI"
Ok attention Sergeant on Deck is not right. Sergeants are NCOs. That phrase is used for commissioned officers like Ensigns, Lieutenants, Commanders, Captains, Admirals and the ranks there of like Lieu Jr grade, Lieu, Lieu Commander, Commander, Captain, Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral, etc all the way to Admiral of the Navy. Sergeants are Army, Marine Corps, and Air Force, Enlisted ranks. Enlisted in the Navy starts with Seamen to Master Chief. Btw the High Republic is a total fail
Raven is the odd one out. He willing became the villain so the rest of the galaxy would grow stronger to prepare for the real threat.
I still love me some Jedi Guardians tho! I'm a blue lightsaber gal thru and thru.
In KOTOR II I have all Prestige classes save but they all start as Guardians. I gotta have my Force Jump. I just got to. 😭😭😭😂😂😂
Wait... I thought that Jedi weren't permitted to have sects?! No attachments and whatnot right? 👀😏 Ba-dum-tssss 🥁
Was qui-gon a guardian wasn't he well known for being a great negotiator (consulator)
I'm definitely team Jedi Consular.
Even though I am not a pacifist I believe that conflicts can rarely be solved by use of force (just force - not The Force lol).
If you defeat your enemy, you haven't solved the underlying problem, you've only taken your enemy's ability to keep fighting.
And as soon as your enemy regains his capability to fight, the conflict is going to reignite.
The winners of WW1 tried to punish Germany and look how that turned out...
And even if you end up victorious, war and armed conflict always create pain and suffering on both sides. So it is best for everyone involved to avoid it altogether.
Lastly, two wrongs don't make one right. Killing a murderer is still murder (unless it is a self denfense situation but you know what I am trying to say). When you follow this "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" attitude in dealing out punishment you run a high risk of becoming as bad as the enemy you swore to fight.
If dooku had lived,do you think he would start another war against the empire? Or stay loyal to Palpatine
Where’d you find the thumbnail art?
What about Jedi shadow? Or is that no longer canon?
Jedi shadows were most often adaptations of the Sect of Sentinel.. They use many skills in a blend just as sentinels do.. However there is a deeper connection to the Dark side innately rather than normal sentinels.. But the amount of shadows are still vastly outnumbered by Fallen Guardians..
Geetsly’s: “The Jedi Guardian was most susceptible to falling to the dark side.”
Me: *Thinks back to my play through as a dark Jedi Guardian* “Well…”
Aayla was a guardian but she ALSO almost fell.
So did the Jedi order itself, they were content with themselves and acted in order to maintain their own power.
The sequels would have been so much better if after Qui Gon is killed Dooku insists on teaching Anakin. Instead of Maul staying to kill Obi Wan he could have left him there and gone looking for Anakin and after not finding him leaving. Maul could have then served as the leader of the Separatist along with Grevious and Dooku and Anakin could have been a group. Dooku's feelings against the Jedi could have been slowly introduced to Anakin so that as he ages he slowly begins to mistrust the Jedi and instead of going "killing isn't the Jedi way" to "Here's Annie" for the younglings he could been slowly drawn into Darkside with Dooku. Windu could be responsible for Dooku's death which could have lead to Anakin's attacking him and Sidious could have killed Windu saving Anakin's life. Windu attacking Anakin could be the final straw that turned him to the Darkside and in the hands of Sidious who would have orchestrated both Windu's attack on Dooku and Windu's attack on Anakin. Obi Wan could take out Maul and Yoda could take out Grevious. Anakin could be injured trying to get to Padme versus her coming to him. Padme could have lived through childbirth and for a while with Luke and Leia before feeling her presence was putting her children into too much danger at which point she would leave Leia with Organa and Luke with Owen and Beru and she could have stayed near Leia on Alderon while Obi Wan was near Luke on Tatooine. Yoda could still fight with Sidious and after reaching a draw be forced to leave and peace out to Dagobah. Order 66 could have been handled differently with most Jedi not going down like punks and instead of being a hot mess the prequels could be a group of cinematic joy.
Qui-Gon was a consular, not a guardian.
I almost thought you said Quin-Lin i was about to say.
So, Pompey the Great probably would have been a dark side risk? Huh.
I thought Anakin fell because he was promised a power to save his wife, not because he seeked justice but went to far
Love the skyrim jedi mod pic
Do an episode an Kit Fisto. He was cool.
I think I would’ve been a Jedi Sentinel
Before even watching the video i can say for sure that the class/sect that had the least amount of Jedi falling to the Dark Side by FAR are the Consular Jedis.
Now between the Guardian and Sentinals i'm not sure, maybe the Guardians but to be fair there's a LOT more of them then Sentinals, so that would be a major reason why, not sure it's fair to say it's them without at least addressing that fact.
Edit: but yeah he really has a point about the Guardians m
Sentinels, given the nature of their jobs, tend to be more introspective, or at least, neutral for most part. They do tend to get exposed to darker side of things or people, yet they're also more likely to process their feelings about things, & note what's wrong with them inside, or at least they wouldn't care about the whole light vs dark thing so long as they get the job done, with bursts of intensely negative emotions being rare. Staying hidden most of the time also mean that sentinels don't get to be heroes, & that would mean only those who care least about glory & fame, potent factors leading one down the dark path, would consider being sentinels.