Get the affordable Nortiv8 Armadillo boots. Use code: LIFEOUTDOORS to get more extra off your order at the sites below. Amazon: geni.us/fnejLm (wide fit included) Head to official site for Armadillo 2: geni.us/LbtEOx Armadillo Series: geni.us/RHivx1 *Gear I talked about in this video:* Nemo Sonic 0: geni.us/bk902pj Ozark Trail 10: geni.us/ABGOJNe
Just to be clear: The ISO does not test sleeping bags. They publish a thick manual that you can buy for $100 and that will tell you how to test sleeping bags. An ISO rating does not necessarily mean that the product was independently tested. The manufacturer could also perform these tests according to the ISO standard. Although in reality, many manufacturers do outsource the testing to independent labs.
@@AndrewPatterson3001 The paying company has an even higher incentive to produce accurate and reliable data for marketing. If you're making $400 sleeping bags and your temp ratings don't jive with real world use, you're not going to be selling $400 sleeping bags for very long, your gear won't be wanted in sponsored events and people will be wary of buying anything else from you. EN/ISO/ASTM standards aren't designed as a marketing tool, but to get all the makers on the same page with consistent and reliable temperature ratings and R-values. This way sleeping gear performs very much the same regardless of the brand. Fudging the numbers defeats the purpose of using the standards in the first place and does more harm to your product than good. Some companies do BS it, though. Klymit is the worst offender, touting a 4.4 R-value on their insulated pad and telling you it's ASTM rated right up front, but burying the fact that the ASTM rating is only 1.9 in the fine print. They get away with it because Klymit caters to inexperienced/fair weather users who don't know what these numbers and standards even mean and typically don't need a sleeping pad with a high R-value anyway, so most of them never know they've been ripped off. If Nemo, Rab or Thermarest tried this, they'd get ripped a new one.
I can't speak to sleeping bag testing but I've worked for a couple of companies (in a completely different industry) that claim to be ISO certified. We would be audited regularly and honestly the audits are a joke. We would retroactively fudge data or provide some BS excuse to get an exemption on an audit item EVERY single time. If they were auditing properly we'd almost certainly fail. But they're pretty lax as far as audits go and year after year we'd pass by the skin of our teeth. I suppose it's better than nothing but I wouldn't put a high degree of faith in ISO compliance. I consider it a starting reference point that at least shows the company wants to be compliant.
@@kobayashimaru8114 🙈🙉🙊🤔 I get it. There's loopholes. I guess the stuff I work with day to day is quite a bit more stringent. Audits can be a joke, and sometimes the person doing the audits can be a joke as well, on both sides of the spectrum. I've heard horror stories about both from others. The company I work for passed audits left and right so the head guy who put the program together came to INTENTIONALLY find something wrong to nail us with. And he dug until he found what he wanted.
"You may not ever be the same, ever again" Man that is a line that hits hard. Just wanted to say that you are killing it, great content, great edits, and you have turned out to be a great presenter.
It was nice to see you pick up a Walmart brand and talk about it. Breaking down all these confusing ratings even better. Appreciate the info on what it all means 👏🏻
I bought an ozark and went out at 0 degrees…I kept a fire going all night and slept for 1 hour intervals between waking up to put wood on fire. Great camping trip learned a lot
The ‘one’ sleeping bag I have enjoyed using for years now in any condition down to -20.c is the Carinthia Modular army sleep system. It was a trial bag issued in around 1999 that had a summer and winter bag that zipped together plus a cotton liner. This bag system was half the size and weight of the US army version. It has honestly been incredible. The airspace in between 2 bags makes a massive difference. I have not felt cold while using it. It’s not much difference in size and weight to a normal 0.C rated bag.
Interesting. I’ve actually been looking at Tropen a week ago as a secondary (utility) summer sleeping bag, in addition to my fragile dawn bag. Does it withstand abuse as good as it keeps you warm though?
The pad makes a huge difference as to how warm a bag will be. And a synth bag’s insulation will break down over time and hence be less efficient (warm), especially if carried in a compression stuff sack. I justify the “high cost” of a tent/sleeping bag/pad by considering the cost of a hotel room. If I spend ten nights in the outdoors, I’ve hit the break-even point. REI has 20% off sales twice a year, and for tents and pads there are lots of deals on used gear. I bought a Western Mountaineering Apache Microfiber with 2 oz overfill 23 years ago. It was around $450 at the time. It’s still my go-to winter bag and performs like new. Seeing how prices have gone up, I could get a fair chinch of my investment back if I sold this bag used.
What on earth? Those motion graphics are like watching a professional documentary on TV. You’re killing it! And yes! More content about a diversity of people and their budgets to enjoy the outdoors.
I've not been backpacking in 30 years. I'd had cheap and expensive bags in my youth. Simple polyester vs, hollow core vs down, stitched together basting, straight vs slanted batterns, mummy vs straight . A few different pads. Yes, you can move up in quality and it matters if you are out in stupid weather. I've heard tree branches burst, I've woken to fresh snow. But if you are not going to be doing stupid things, and you just camp in the late spring to early fall, a less expensive bag should be fine.
Hands down, Western Mountaineering. Costly, yes, but they don’t use three different ratings. My 10 degree bag is comfortable at 10 degrees Fahrenheit. When I go to the ground, in colder temperatures, it’s Western Mountaineering for me.👍
My WM Everlite is a 45F bag and that rating is accurate, too. If I wear my hooded down jacket and merino baselayer I can be comfy down to 36-38F cowboy camping on an uninsulated NEMO Tensor. I just use vegetation or terrain to block the wind.
I have lived (and slept) outdoors for the majority of my life from about age 6 onward (long story...LOL) and worked professionally in the wilderness education/guiding arena (on and off) for over 30 years in one capacity or another. I DIY my sleep systems with the current one being over 20 years old and have slept in temperatures below - 30°F many times (without wind chill) for as long as 10 days straight...$$$ do not equal better at all, knowledge and understanding of the system (as well as conditioning) is what matters...be it a natural bed roll system, modern synthetic or combination thereof...Thanks for another great review and breakdown...
@@Dave-lr2wo Hello Dave...Which sleep system? At what point and time from my past or present? For what climate type and location? Natural...Synthetic...or...a combination thereof? Those questions aren't meant as a deflection at all, and I'm more than willing to explore this topic with you in as much detail as you would like, however (and I could be wrong...please do correct me) your question sounded kind of like a "challenge," which I'm not into debating this topic or justifying my comment... So those questions are important, as are whether you are personally conditioned to sleep under extreme conditions and comfortable with that, since a "sleep system" is very dependant on individual conditioning, body type, the style of "how you sleep," skills in developing a system (aka do you have the skills to tailor (sew) a series of materials together effectively to create a sleep system for yourself,) as well as other factors... If you going to "purchase" a sleep system this video outlines a wonderful example of key elements for "bought systems" and why I commented, as well as, why I enjoy supporting the channel. If you have other questions, please do feel free to ask those but please provide context and goal...Thanks for commenting...
I would have liked to see you talk more about the option of adding a liner to improve the warmth of zero bags that are actually comfort rated for 14-15 degrees. I've looked at -20 bags, and without exception, the extra cost, bulk, and weight is not worth it for adding a couple of nights per year. Spending the most amount of money for a bag I'll use the least just doesn't make sense.
Use two cheap bags and a tarp, portaging with an external pack frame and oversize stuff sacks strapped to the external frame. Down is so easily compressed that it loses all of its loft against the ground. Sleep in the all wool winter ensemble and bring your boots into the roomy bag to prevent your boots from freezing. A small closed cell foam pad is sufficient with fiber fill since these bags are not easily compressed.
Just to add to the conversation, I was out last week in the Indian Peaks range of the Rocky Mountains. Low temperature was 30F, next to a pretty good stream so some humidity and wind flow. Admittedly I sleep cold, but okay, I had a Western Mountaineering down bag rated at -10F and I was in “the womb”! So Lovely.
I have those exact nortiv8 boots! I bought them earlier this year and have put about 1.5 million steps through them (tracked through my pedometer app) and they've held up so far, although the sole is getting thin in some high wear areas. This was mostly street walking too since my workboots died and I was too lazy to get new ones, so have just been wearing these. They've been comfortable since day 1. I have unusuallywide feet and will try for at least a 9 double wide, but the 9.5 wide size fit me well. I am a very new hiker with little experience, so take that with a grain of salt.
If youre gonna go with boots go with a muck style lightweight hunting boot if youre in heavy tick country. Ticks cant grab onto the smooth rubber as opposed to any sort of mesh. It will cut them down to a fraction if theyre tall and your pants are tucked in
I actually bought the park trail bag 4ish years ago and I’ve done camping down to about freezing in it. I don’t have any issues. If it’s over 40 I am naked in that bag with the zipper cracked
I'm completely sold on Western mountaineering as the absolute best for comfort, packability, weight and true temperature ratings. I bought the 20 degree bag and its now 14-15 years old and I love it. I do however also have 2 Coleman aka Walmart level sleeping bags and for the price, and starting off for less serious people, it's a great option.
Also break down the costs per night. If you are out a lot that's one thing but if you are using your sleeping bag and mat for only a few days every year you should really look for cheap versions. Otherwise your 5 nights out are more expensive than a wellness retreat... And: keep in mind what you really need it for.
When you started talking about the boots, I couldn't help but have a laugh. I worked in a camping store for a while, and I sold a lot of boots. The exact wording you used is what I would say to sell boots, even the moisture vapour permeation 'MVP' and how the membrane works. I see they have vibram soles too? I'll give them a shot, my Salomons are a bit too much boot at times.
The old school way of testing with prople in cold rooms almost seems more trustworthy. That and old, heavy, dense 550 fill down. Looking at you TNF Blue Kazoo! 😬
I use the Ozark bag at a 32 degrees rating and it’s fine. The coldest temps I have been in was at 17 degrees…. I just place warmers in the bag with me.
For most men, women on avg plan around 20 degrees rating then what a bag lists. Meaning if you are a woman and need a 40 degree bag buy a 20 degree bag if its a mens sleeping bag
I'm always hot when camping. My comfort temp is about 39 degrees. But I do have a -25 bag that I use even in the summer. I just open it up and use it as a blanket. I would just get the lowest temp you can afford.
I really love your taste and style always so chic. My faves would be the kislux leather backpack and the Swarovski pave diamond ring so gorg. Thank you for your recommendations.
3:29 this is not necessarily a deception, they also could just be inept, or something lost in translation, in other words a quality control issue. Quality control is one of the major differences between a reputable and trusted brand and what is essentially a store brand. It’s also likely that the zipper, insulation and shell material are low quality and are more likely to fail with heavy use. That said, if you’re a person who only ventures out once a year or less, even a low quality sleeping bag would work fine for most of these people for their annual summer hike.
I bought a -18 for trout season.. april up in canada is cool at night.. my friend has a -18 and we went winter camping.. was sleeping in his boxers lol while i froze with my -1 with layers on lol now i got -18 and im not worries to go spring and fall fishing over night..
I can see if both met the same ISO standards saying hey they are almost the same. But then you have to factor in how durable they are. Started off camping again as an adult with a ozark trail 30 degree bag. That thing was garbage and only good to use to help pad a cot. Upgraded to a Coleman 30 and a huge difference. Upgraded just recently to a Nemo disco 30 which I am going to use this month but when testing at the store already seemed a lot warmer and packs down to less than half the size of the Coleman.
On the other hand, if the Ozark trail is $40 and the Nemo is $500, you would need to wear out 13 of the cheap bags before the expensive one was worn out in order for the Nemo to be $20 cheaper in the long run.
I saw the headline and teaser image, and thought, "oh no, I have a Nemo bag on my wish list." Your point seems to be to dig and do the research to make a good comparison between bags. For most products, there are multiple factors to consider. For a new sleeping bag, I'm looking at weight, temperature rating, fill, and price. Regarding the shoes, I almost always want to try on shoes before I buy, especially hiking or running shoes. ETA: "fill" to the factors I'm looking at in sleeping bag.
I've figured out an emotional problem that had kept me home for most of my life and now am buying tent, sleeping bag, air mattress, tarp, poles and a good quality cart so I can walk 3,000 km to cape tribulation in the tropics of Australia. I'm going to make camp there and settle. I ordered a $40 sleeping bag, it's rated at -10C should be fine in Australia. I'm poor so can't afford good equipment.
Hey! Wanted to turn your attention to a small company called "Hang Tight" - they make down quilts for hammocks, but offer a "ground dweller" addon for those of us that want to use the top quilts with a sleeping pad. I got mine for 149 USD which is insane in today's down quilt market. Based out of I believe Minnesota. I know you've been interested in good affordable gear. I haven't been able to try my overstuffed heatseeker yet as it is summer here, but I have high hopes
For a long time, as the price of Chanel increased, I no longer thought I could afford it. I think I'll be happy that I have the kislux as my travel bag that I don't have to take care of. By the way, I'm sure no one will have a hard time telling the difference. Thanks for the comparison.
Take note... The buffalo sleep system is far superior to ANY OTHER IN EVERY WAY ,ANYWHERE AT ANY PRICE ( including wiggys btw) It consists of the Buffalo 4s outer, 4s inner, buffalo systems thermaliner, special 6 shirt and special 6 trousers. Extreme cold weather rated at MINUS 110 DEGREES ... comfort at minus 50. Can be stored FULLY COMPRESSED indefinitely without affecting performance . Thermal efficiency is UNCHANGED WET OR DRY . Made in Sheffield UK. BUY ONCE CRY ONCE .
I checked them out. Their gear looks great for wet conditions. But their insulation does degrade over time. From their website: "...pile flattened over many years cannot really be rescued..." I really like my down top quilts, hammock and underquilts for where I typically camp in conditions ranging from -15 C to 35 C
@@jays7318 Thanks for taking the time to reply Jay. Actually when the aquatherm extreme pile fleece lining in buffalo systems sleeping bags gets flattened ,it can be very easily restored to the same thermal efficiency it had when it was new by simply brushing it with an ordinary hair brush . Also ,being a 5 part sleep system ( including special 6 shirt and trousers ) The system is perfect for all year round use from the Sahara to Antarctica. This versatility puts the buffalo system in a league of it's own as far as performance goes. If down gets wet it's about as much use as Anne Frank's drum kit. The buffalo system loses almost none of its thermal insulation performance even when it is completely soaked with water , it performs like a wet suit if soaked and retains so much body heat it actually dries itself out . I've spoken to the owner at buffalo and told him to invest heavily in a world wide ad campaign .Almost nobody has heard of buffalo systems , if everyone realised how good they actually are , every other sleeping bag manufacturer would go out of business ... You can even breathe inside the buffalo system in extreme low temperatures and the super high aquatherm wicking capability means the condensation freezes ON THE OUTSIDE . Conversely , If you breathe inside a down bag it turns into a 10 kilo ice collar that extends down to chest level ... ... Or ,you can use a vapor barrier and enjoy climbing out of a down bag very warm and soaked to the skin at minus 20....🤣😂 I suppose wim hof might like it lol
@davidjacobs828 Hmm, I've not once had a problem with moisture and my ultralight down quilts in a hammock. On a pad I have had issues. A hammock with down quilts is the best setup I have experienced in the summer and winter. I also prefer to carry 1/3 to 1/4 the weight of that synthetic sleep system for backpacking, not to mention the high compressibility of down. So my down quilts and the hammock is my choice every time. I'd go for one of their synthetic jackets though. I did read a review that they are not restorable with brushing after a very long period (10+ years), but that's totally acceptable. Here's someone else's review of the system (from an independent website): "Its very indestructable and easy to wash, dampness is no problem. BUT having had a down bag now since 1998 I don't want to go back. The Buffalo system is heavy (even just the 4s outer on its own) and bulky. When you are 18 have strong shoulders and little brain that's fine, but now as middle-age appears not too far in the distance (!) I will go for lighter weight gear."
When I saw that 5.7 lb bag I almost choked. My 30 deg bag (summer camper) is 1 lb 3 oz. Hard to imagine carrying one that heavy now. But the comfort VS limit temp is very good info to know
40 dollars is axtually impressive price for -4°c comfort, the one i have is considered best quality/price, i paid 90 Euro or 105 dollars for a 0°c here in Europe
1:39 Another temperature consideration is that, in most tents it’s going to be at least 5 degrees F warmer inside the tent or even warmer inside a snow cave or similar shelter. So, even a cold sleeper (with a decent-enough sleeping pad), will be comfortable in a 0 degree sleeping bag from a well-known and reputable brand into the single digit temperatures, if they have a decent shelter system.
I'm surprised ozark trail actually does any ISO stuff, so that's cool. Although, for the price point, their stuff is actually okay as long as you keep that in mind.
Should be noted that top quilts are NOT tested to the ISO standard because it doesn’t apply to quilts. And rightly so - there are a lot of other variables involved with how warm a quilt is: how you attach it to the pad, how much you toss and turn, etc. I’m not saying there shouldn’t or couldn’t be a standard to test them, but the ISO test right now does not apply. So we, the UL crowd, are left to compare loft, read reviews on others’ perceptions of how warm a bag is that they have used, and “guesstimate” how warm we will be in a quilt. Hopefully a standard is developed to test these soon!
They used to have great tents too. They were clones of REI Half and Quarter Dome models. I own 2 of them and other than being orange you could not tell them apart. Cost $45 for a 2 man and $27 for the one man tent. Very good quality.
I both liked and disliked your explaination of the different temperature ratings. It is very important for people to realize, that they can't just take the number on the bag for granted and have no problems with it. I however am a person, that usually is rather too hot than too cold. When planning for a trip I always look at the limit rating of my bags, because I know that is where I will feel comfortable. Where in the range of the bag your personal comfort level is, is totally subjective. A friend of mine, who tends to be rather cold, always stays above the comfort rating with his bag.
My Height is: 68 inch (173 cm), and The size of my shoulders is 17 inch (44 cm). Would you say a mummy sleeping bag of (81"L x 21"W) is suitable for my body size? Thank you
Kind of a bummer that if a company started being 100% honest about ratings in the name of a bag, they’d be penalized for it. Most consumers would assumed a bag named the “Nemo Sonic 14” was really closer to a 25° or 30° bag because we have all become so used to this system. Seems like unless the entire industry gets a reboot or some regulations in place, the slightly dishonest labeling is inevitable.
One thing i wonder about is I personally don't just wear my undies to bed, its usually a long sleeve shirt and thermal long johns. I wonder how that affects these tests.
I'm from italy, i noticed that european brand are more clear with temperature rating on their bags, and often explain precisely the meaning of these numbers. Try looking at the site of the brand "Ferrino" (hope it's translated in english😅)
The way I've heard it explained is the basic rating means you won't die at that temp. Add clothing, shelter, maybe a blanket, and a decent pad and you should be close to comfortable at least. I did an overnight at literally zero, thermals, poncho liner, 0 degree bag, and at one point heated water on the fire and filled a Gatorade bottle for the foot box and was mostly comfortable all night. Next morning sucked tho. Lol
I currently have a Kelty 20 bag which felt a little bit cold once it got below 30, but I like otherwise. I was thinking of getting a bag liner instead of getting a whole new bag. Would anyone have thoughts on why this is an okay or terrible idea?
If the Kelty fits you with ample room to turn on your side, keeping it and adding a liner may be a great option. As for me, I'm walking away from Kelty since it is no longer the company I've know since when I was growing up backpacking in the Colorado Rockies. For a comparable price, I just bought a Big Agnes Torchlight on sale, and will be returning my Cosmic Ultra 20. The Torchlight is much roomier and warmer, and I could NOT be happier!! Even the Ultra (800 dridown) version of the Kelty Cosmic 20 is not warm enough for its ratings, and I find it to be too damn small in girth.
So the question I have is, this sleeping bag is like 24° comfort level. the temperature I need to sleep at is 16°. If I take this and sleep with my base layer silk top/bottom, and my mid layer waffle top/bottom, would the clothing layers keep my comfortable in that bag?
Wait Ozark Trail makes sleeping bags??? They make a Walmart MTB that’s surprisingly decent for the price. Granted that is if it’s put together correctly being it’s from Walmart.😂
I don't trust "high end" bags that aren't from feathered friends or western mountaineering, or valandre. I've had my widgeon (-10F) down to 10F before I had to put on more layers than just socks, compression shirt, and compression shorts. That said, I wouldn't recommend those kinds of bags unless you REGULARLY camp in very cold weather.
Maybe a dumb question, but does anyone just double-up on cheap bag? Could you buy two bags with 12-degree ratings, use them with one nested inside the other, and then obviously be warmer on a per-dollar basis? This would also have the flexibility of giving you the option to just use one for warmer temps.
You can double up. You just need to make sure one bag isn’t squeezing the insulation of the other bag. It’s best to do it with quilts. Or a bag with a quilt on top. Here is a video I did about it: th-cam.com/video/6_D9XlxUwAQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=dH8Mwx1s7AJvHkVE
Dooooood I wanted to listen and learn but the background/foreground music distracts completely! Aaaaagghhh thx for sharing anyway. I did a like but on to next
The assumption was probably that people would be more likely to use the cheap sleeping bags in their tents rather than spend the night outdoors without anything over their heads!
That's a ridiculous price for a less than capable sleeping bag. I have a €60 Chinese made sleeping bag that keeps me comfortable at 0°C. Because the filling is compressed underneath my body, I use a foil coated mat between me and my inflatable sleeping mat. The lowest temperature I've used it in is -1°C, and I slept like a baby.
Do you refer to Degree Fahrenheit or Celsius, would be nice to know in the Future… (Think your referring to Fahrenheit, but we haven’t this here in Europe)
I could not find the budget for a down one so i spent some time digging through the forest of synthetic ones. Lesson 1: even reputable companies can be shady with the temperature ratings. Its sometimes very hard to come by this info. Lesson 2: its a bit of a faff buying a bag for a 6'4 person. They usually stop at 6'3, similar story with sleeping pads. Gotta say my €50 bag held up suprisingly well in combo with my overkill sleeping pad. Others on the trip with more expensive kit complained about cold nights, i did not. Only complaint i have (if you can call it that) is that its very, very, very red.😊
I can confirm that SeaToSummit bags in long fit me (6'6 or 195 cm). I have ample room to move inside it, but I am a thin person. I have the STS Spark III. It did break the bank, but I managed to find it on sale for 350 euros, whereas my local shop sells it for full price of 500 euros. It's only 745 grams, it is very small when compressed, and has an excellent zipper. That costs money. I also have a Ferino synthetic one which is like 1,8 kg (1800 grams for my fellow Americans), the zipper is mediocre and it's very large when compressed. It was around 130 euros. You get the picture.
I have always been asking my self, what do they consider to wear referring to these ratings? Am I sleeping with clothes on or only underwear? I mean this makes a big difference.
Get the affordable Nortiv8 Armadillo boots. Use code: LIFEOUTDOORS to get more extra off your order at the sites below.
Amazon: geni.us/fnejLm (wide fit included)
Head to official site for Armadillo 2: geni.us/LbtEOx
Armadillo Series: geni.us/RHivx1
*Gear I talked about in this video:*
Nemo Sonic 0: geni.us/bk902pj
Ozark Trail 10: geni.us/ABGOJNe
What a real adventure guy you are😂😂😂😂😂😂
Just to be clear: The ISO does not test sleeping bags. They publish a thick manual that you can buy for $100 and that will tell you how to test sleeping bags. An ISO rating does not necessarily mean that the product was independently tested. The manufacturer could also perform these tests according to the ISO standard. Although in reality, many manufacturers do outsource the testing to independent labs.
And they have an incentive to be helpful to the paying company.
ISO can still audit the manufacturer to see if procedures are being followed.
@@AndrewPatterson3001 The paying company has an even higher incentive to produce accurate and reliable data for marketing. If you're making $400 sleeping bags and your temp ratings don't jive with real world use, you're not going to be selling $400 sleeping bags for very long, your gear won't be wanted in sponsored events and people will be wary of buying anything else from you. EN/ISO/ASTM standards aren't designed as a marketing tool, but to get all the makers on the same page with consistent and reliable temperature ratings and R-values. This way sleeping gear performs very much the same regardless of the brand. Fudging the numbers defeats the purpose of using the standards in the first place and does more harm to your product than good.
Some companies do BS it, though. Klymit is the worst offender, touting a 4.4 R-value on their insulated pad and telling you it's ASTM rated right up front, but burying the fact that the ASTM rating is only 1.9 in the fine print. They get away with it because Klymit caters to inexperienced/fair weather users who don't know what these numbers and standards even mean and typically don't need a sleeping pad with a high R-value anyway, so most of them never know they've been ripped off. If Nemo, Rab or Thermarest tried this, they'd get ripped a new one.
I can't speak to sleeping bag testing but I've worked for a couple of companies (in a completely different industry) that claim to be ISO certified. We would be audited regularly and honestly the audits are a joke.
We would retroactively fudge data or provide some BS excuse to get an exemption on an audit item EVERY single time. If they were auditing properly we'd almost certainly fail. But they're pretty lax as far as audits go and year after year we'd pass by the skin of our teeth.
I suppose it's better than nothing but I wouldn't put a high degree of faith in ISO compliance. I consider it a starting reference point that at least shows the company wants to be compliant.
@@kobayashimaru8114 🙈🙉🙊🤔 I get it. There's loopholes. I guess the stuff I work with day to day is quite a bit more stringent. Audits can be a joke, and sometimes the person doing the audits can be a joke as well, on both sides of the spectrum. I've heard horror stories about both from others. The company I work for passed audits left and right so the head guy who put the program together came to INTENTIONALLY find something wrong to nail us with. And he dug until he found what he wanted.
"You may not ever be the same, ever again" Man that is a line that hits hard. Just wanted to say that you are killing it, great content, great edits, and you have turned out to be a great presenter.
It was nice to see you pick up a Walmart brand and talk about it. Breaking down all these confusing ratings even better. Appreciate the info on what it all means 👏🏻
I bought an ozark and went out at 0 degrees…I kept a fire going all night and slept for 1 hour intervals between waking up to put wood on fire. Great camping trip learned a lot
The ‘one’ sleeping bag I have enjoyed using for years now in any condition down to -20.c is the Carinthia Modular army sleep system. It was a trial bag issued in around 1999 that had a summer and winter bag that zipped together plus a cotton liner. This bag system was half the size and weight of the US army version. It has honestly been incredible. The airspace in between 2 bags makes a massive difference. I have not felt cold while using it. It’s not much difference in size and weight to a normal 0.C rated bag.
I still have mine!
Its still in service in the german army. I own the summer sleeping bag "Tropen". Love it. Nice sleeping bag until 50 fahrenheit (or 10 degrees).
Interesting. I’ve actually been looking at Tropen a week ago as a secondary (utility) summer sleeping bag, in addition to my fragile dawn bag. Does it withstand abuse as good as it keeps you warm though?
The pad makes a huge difference as to how warm a bag will be. And a synth bag’s insulation will break down over time and hence be less efficient (warm), especially if carried in a compression stuff sack.
I justify the “high cost” of a tent/sleeping bag/pad by considering the cost of a hotel room. If I spend ten nights in the outdoors, I’ve hit the break-even point.
REI has 20% off sales twice a year, and for tents and pads there are lots of deals on used gear.
I bought a Western Mountaineering Apache Microfiber with 2 oz overfill 23 years ago. It was around $450 at the time. It’s still my go-to winter bag and performs like new. Seeing how prices have gone up, I could get a fair chinch of my investment back if I sold this bag used.
Thank you so much for converting the temperature units!!!
What on earth? Those motion graphics are like watching a professional documentary on TV. You’re killing it! And yes! More content about a diversity of people and their budgets to enjoy the outdoors.
I've not been backpacking in 30 years. I'd had cheap and expensive bags in my youth. Simple polyester vs, hollow core vs down, stitched together basting, straight vs slanted batterns, mummy vs straight . A few different pads.
Yes, you can move up in quality and it matters if you are out in stupid weather. I've heard tree branches burst, I've woken to fresh snow. But if you are not going to be doing stupid things, and you just camp in the late spring to early fall, a less expensive bag should be fine.
Hands down, Western Mountaineering. Costly, yes, but they don’t use three different ratings. My 10 degree bag is comfortable at 10 degrees Fahrenheit. When I go to the ground, in colder temperatures, it’s Western Mountaineering for me.👍
My WM Everlite is a 45F bag and that rating is accurate, too. If I wear my hooded down jacket and merino baselayer I can be comfy down to 36-38F cowboy camping on an uninsulated NEMO Tensor. I just use vegetation or terrain to block the wind.
Feathered Friends
That Ozark Trail bag looks fantastic for budget car camping bag.
I use there 30 and 50 degree to back pack there great!
I have lived (and slept) outdoors for the majority of my life from about age 6 onward (long story...LOL) and worked professionally in the wilderness education/guiding arena (on and off) for over 30 years in one capacity or another. I DIY my sleep systems with the current one being over 20 years old and have slept in temperatures below - 30°F many times (without wind chill) for as long as 10 days straight...$$$ do not equal better at all, knowledge and understanding of the system (as well as conditioning) is what matters...be it a natural bed roll system, modern synthetic or combination thereof...Thanks for another great review and breakdown...
How about actually describing the system you put together for yourself?
@@Dave-lr2wo Hello Dave...Which sleep system? At what point and time from my past or present? For what climate type and location? Natural...Synthetic...or...a combination thereof?
Those questions aren't meant as a deflection at all, and I'm more than willing to explore this topic with you in as much detail as you would like, however (and I could be wrong...please do correct me) your question sounded kind of like a "challenge," which I'm not into debating this topic or justifying my comment...
So those questions are important, as are whether you are personally conditioned to sleep under extreme conditions and comfortable with that, since a "sleep system" is very dependant on individual conditioning, body type, the style of "how you sleep," skills in developing a system (aka do you have the skills to tailor (sew) a series of materials together effectively to create a sleep system for yourself,) as well as other factors...
If you going to "purchase" a sleep system this video outlines a wonderful example of key elements for "bought systems" and why I commented, as well as, why I enjoy supporting the channel. If you have other questions, please do feel free to ask those but please provide context and goal...Thanks for commenting...
I would have liked to see you talk more about the option of adding a liner to improve the warmth of zero bags that are actually comfort rated for 14-15 degrees. I've looked at -20 bags, and without exception, the extra cost, bulk, and weight is not worth it for adding a couple of nights per year. Spending the most amount of money for a bag I'll use the least just doesn't make sense.
Just do jumping jacks all night, David Goggins style instead of carrying a sleeping bag.
Use two cheap bags and a tarp, portaging with an external pack frame and oversize stuff sacks strapped to the external frame.
Down is so easily compressed that it loses all of its loft against the ground. Sleep in the all wool winter ensemble and bring your boots into the roomy bag to prevent your boots from freezing. A small closed cell foam pad is sufficient with fiber fill since these bags are not easily compressed.
Just to add to the conversation, I was out last week in the Indian Peaks range of the Rocky Mountains. Low temperature was 30F, next to a pretty good stream so some humidity and wind flow. Admittedly I sleep cold, but okay, I had a Western Mountaineering down bag rated at -10F and I was in “the womb”! So Lovely.
I have those exact nortiv8 boots! I bought them earlier this year and have put about 1.5 million steps through them (tracked through my pedometer app) and they've held up so far, although the sole is getting thin in some high wear areas. This was mostly street walking too since my workboots died and I was too lazy to get new ones, so have just been wearing these. They've been comfortable since day 1. I have unusuallywide feet and will try for at least a 9 double wide, but the 9.5 wide size fit me well. I am a very new hiker with little experience, so take that with a grain of salt.
I’m glad to hear they will last. That was my only concern. Thanks for the comment
One months rent? Man . . . I remember when rent in my area was $800. That was a long while ago.
If youre gonna go with boots go with a muck style lightweight hunting boot if youre in heavy tick country. Ticks cant grab onto the smooth rubber as opposed to any sort of mesh. It will cut them down to a fraction if theyre tall and your pants are tucked in
I actually bought the park trail bag 4ish years ago and I’ve done camping down to about freezing in it. I don’t have any issues. If it’s over 40 I am naked in that bag with the zipper cracked
I'm completely sold on Western mountaineering as the absolute best for comfort, packability, weight and true temperature ratings. I bought the 20 degree bag and its now 14-15 years old and I love it. I do however also have 2 Coleman aka Walmart level sleeping bags and for the price, and starting off for less serious people, it's a great option.
Also break down the costs per night. If you are out a lot that's one thing but if you are using your sleeping bag and mat for only a few days every year you should really look for cheap versions. Otherwise your 5 nights out are more expensive than a wellness retreat...
And: keep in mind what you really need it for.
When you started talking about the boots, I couldn't help but have a laugh.
I worked in a camping store for a while, and I sold a lot of boots.
The exact wording you used is what I would say to sell boots, even the moisture vapour permeation 'MVP' and how the membrane works.
I see they have vibram soles too?
I'll give them a shot, my Salomons are a bit too much boot at times.
The old school way of testing with prople in cold rooms almost seems more trustworthy. That and old, heavy, dense 550 fill down. Looking at you TNF Blue Kazoo! 😬
I use the Ozark bag at a 32 degrees rating and it’s fine. The coldest temps I have been in was at 17 degrees…. I just place warmers in the bag with me.
For most men, women on avg plan around 20 degrees rating then what a bag lists.
Meaning if you are a woman and need a 40 degree bag buy a 20 degree bag if its a mens sleeping bag
I'm always hot when camping. My comfort temp is about 39 degrees. But I do have a -25 bag that I use even in the summer. I just open it up and use it as a blanket. I would just get the lowest temp you can afford.
I just bought a NEMO SONIC rated tp -29C. It's on it's way to my house right now.
while iso is a published standard, isn't ISO testing still internal testing?
I really love your taste and style always so chic. My faves would be the kislux leather backpack and the Swarovski pave diamond ring so gorg. Thank you for your recommendations.
3:29 this is not necessarily a deception, they also could just be inept, or something lost in translation, in other words a quality control issue. Quality control is one of the major differences between a reputable and trusted brand and what is essentially a store brand. It’s also likely that the zipper, insulation and shell material are low quality and are more likely to fail with heavy use. That said, if you’re a person who only ventures out once a year or less, even a low quality sleeping bag would work fine for most of these people for their annual summer hike.
I bought a -18 for trout season.. april up in canada is cool at night.. my friend has a -18 and we went winter camping.. was sleeping in his boxers lol while i froze with my -1 with layers on lol now i got -18 and im not worries to go spring and fall fishing over night..
I can see if both met the same ISO standards saying hey they are almost the same. But then you have to factor in how durable they are. Started off camping again as an adult with a ozark trail 30 degree bag. That thing was garbage and only good to use to help pad a cot. Upgraded to a Coleman 30 and a huge difference. Upgraded just recently to a Nemo disco 30 which I am going to use this month but when testing at the store already seemed a lot warmer and packs down to less than half the size of the Coleman.
On the other hand, if the Ozark trail is $40 and the Nemo is $500, you would need to wear out 13 of the cheap bags before the expensive one was worn out in order for the Nemo to be $20 cheaper in the long run.
My go to bag is from China ! Ollie's is the store yes it's something I could not Carry around for long but I'm warm ❤
I saw the headline and teaser image, and thought, "oh no, I have a Nemo bag on my wish list." Your point seems to be to dig and do the research to make a good comparison between bags.
For most products, there are multiple factors to consider. For a new sleeping bag, I'm looking at weight, temperature rating, fill, and price.
Regarding the shoes, I almost always want to try on shoes before I buy, especially hiking or running shoes.
ETA: "fill" to the factors I'm looking at in sleeping bag.
I've figured out an emotional problem that had kept me home for most of my life and now am buying tent, sleeping bag, air mattress, tarp, poles and a good quality cart so I can walk 3,000 km to cape tribulation in the tropics of Australia. I'm going to make camp there and settle. I ordered a $40 sleeping bag, it's rated at -10C should be fine in Australia. I'm poor so can't afford good equipment.
Look up the Wiggys brand. Made in Colorado and the best. Military uses them.
i just want to say.. your video editing is🔥
Hey! Wanted to turn your attention to a small company called "Hang Tight" - they make down quilts for hammocks, but offer a "ground dweller" addon for those of us that want to use the top quilts with a sleeping pad. I got mine for 149 USD which is insane in today's down quilt market. Based out of I believe Minnesota. I know you've been interested in good affordable gear.
I haven't been able to try my overstuffed heatseeker yet as it is summer here, but I have high hopes
For a long time, as the price of Chanel increased, I no longer thought I could afford it. I think I'll be happy that I have the kislux as my travel bag that I don't have to take care of. By the way, I'm sure no one will have a hard time telling the difference. Thanks for the comparison.
I've taken this bag to -18 F testing in yard without problem! Just need the right sleeping pad I'd guess. I may run warm being a 185lbs man.
Take note...
The buffalo sleep system is far superior to ANY OTHER IN EVERY WAY ,ANYWHERE AT ANY PRICE ( including wiggys btw)
It consists of the
Buffalo 4s outer, 4s inner, buffalo systems thermaliner, special 6 shirt and special 6 trousers.
Extreme cold weather rated at MINUS 110 DEGREES ...
comfort at minus 50.
Can be stored FULLY COMPRESSED indefinitely without affecting performance . Thermal efficiency is UNCHANGED WET OR DRY .
Made in Sheffield UK.
BUY ONCE CRY ONCE .
I checked them out. Their gear looks great for wet conditions. But their insulation does degrade over time. From their website: "...pile flattened over many years cannot really be rescued..."
I really like my down top quilts, hammock and underquilts for where I typically camp in conditions ranging from -15 C to 35 C
@@jays7318
Thanks for taking the time to reply Jay.
Actually when the aquatherm extreme pile fleece lining in buffalo systems sleeping bags gets flattened ,it can be very easily restored to the same thermal efficiency it had when it was new by simply brushing it with an ordinary hair brush .
Also ,being a 5 part sleep system ( including special 6 shirt and trousers )
The system is perfect for all year round use from the Sahara to Antarctica.
This versatility puts the buffalo system in a league of it's own as far as performance goes.
If down gets wet it's about as much use as Anne Frank's drum kit.
The buffalo system loses almost none of its thermal insulation performance even when it is completely soaked with water , it performs like a wet suit if soaked and retains so much body heat it actually dries itself out .
I've spoken to the owner at buffalo and told him to invest heavily in a world wide ad campaign .Almost nobody has heard of buffalo systems , if everyone realised how good they actually are , every other sleeping bag manufacturer would go out of business ...
You can even breathe inside the buffalo system in extreme low temperatures and the super high aquatherm wicking capability means the condensation freezes ON THE OUTSIDE .
Conversely ,
If you breathe inside a down bag it turns into a 10 kilo ice collar that extends down to chest level ... ...
Or ,you can use a vapor barrier and enjoy climbing out of a down bag very warm and soaked to the skin at minus 20....🤣😂
I suppose wim hof might like it lol
@davidjacobs828 Hmm, I've not once had a problem with moisture and my ultralight down quilts in a hammock. On a pad I have had issues. A hammock with down quilts is the best setup I have experienced in the summer and winter.
I also prefer to carry 1/3 to 1/4 the weight of that synthetic sleep system for backpacking, not to mention the high compressibility of down. So my down quilts and the hammock is my choice every time.
I'd go for one of their synthetic jackets though. I did read a review that they are not restorable with brushing after a very long period (10+ years), but that's totally acceptable.
Here's someone else's review of the system (from an independent website):
"Its very indestructable and easy to wash, dampness is no problem.
BUT having had a down bag now since 1998 I don't want to go back. The Buffalo system is heavy (even just the 4s outer on its own) and bulky. When you are 18 have strong shoulders and little brain that's fine, but now as middle-age appears not too far in the distance (!) I will go for lighter weight gear."
When I saw that 5.7 lb bag I almost choked. My 30 deg bag (summer camper) is 1 lb 3 oz. Hard to imagine carrying one that heavy now. But the comfort VS limit temp is very good info to know
kislux versace bag is so cute
There's gotta be a catch with those boots! They look awesome.
just looking at the ozark ....i can tell you that at 25° (-4C) ... this will not feel warm. you can see loft with your eyes. its that easy
40 dollars is axtually impressive price for -4°c comfort, the one i have is considered best quality/price, i paid 90 Euro or 105 dollars for a 0°c here in Europe
1:39 Another temperature consideration is that, in most tents it’s going to be at least 5 degrees F warmer inside the tent or even warmer inside a snow cave or similar shelter. So, even a cold sleeper (with a decent-enough sleeping pad), will be comfortable in a 0 degree sleeping bag from a well-known and reputable brand into the single digit temperatures, if they have a decent shelter system.
-18 C is just crazy for me being a south american man, specially in Brazil the colder I ever got is a -4 Celcius harsh winter
I'm surprised ozark trail actually does any ISO stuff, so that's cool. Although, for the price point, their stuff is actually okay as long as you keep that in mind.
I've got one of those Wally "10F" (AKA 25F) bags stuck in my car like a fire extinguisher or a tire pump, in case I ever need a bag. $40 I won't miss.
Nice video and great info!
Another great informative video. Plus, answered a question I’ve been having about footwear.
Should be noted that top quilts are NOT tested to the ISO standard because it doesn’t apply to quilts. And rightly so - there are a lot of other variables involved with how warm a quilt is: how you attach it to the pad, how much you toss and turn, etc. I’m not saying there shouldn’t or couldn’t be a standard to test them, but the ISO test right now does not apply.
So we, the UL crowd, are left to compare loft, read reviews on others’ perceptions of how warm a bag is that they have used, and “guesstimate” how warm we will be in a quilt.
Hopefully a standard is developed to test these soon!
Never would have thought that the OT bag has an ISO rating. Good on them. Honestly, if you can keep it dry and you aren't a gram weenie, why not?
I have the 50 and 30 degree version and there awesome! I'm warm down to the rated Temps
The information you share is appreciated.cheers
Loved the video. Just one question, where I live it gets down to -40C, where can i get affordable sleeping bag that can keep me warm even in -40C.
Wish Walmart still had the Ozark Trail down 32° sleeping bag, perfect for the kids.
They used to have great tents too. They were clones of REI Half and Quarter Dome models. I own 2 of them and other than being orange you could not tell them apart. Cost $45 for a 2 man and $27 for the one man tent. Very good quality.
Very well done!
Thanks for the useful information.
without a good pad a down bag sucks when you crush the down you destroy the insulation properties all the time every time.
Nice video. I will gladly carry a sleeping bag that IS NOT 5.7 pounds!
Hardcore video indeed
I both liked and disliked your explaination of the different temperature ratings. It is very important for people to realize, that they can't just take the number on the bag for granted and have no problems with it. I however am a person, that usually is rather too hot than too cold. When planning for a trip I always look at the limit rating of my bags, because I know that is where I will feel comfortable. Where in the range of the bag your personal comfort level is, is totally subjective. A friend of mine, who tends to be rather cold, always stays above the comfort rating with his bag.
My Height is: 68 inch (173 cm), and The size of my shoulders is 17 inch (44 cm).
Would you say a mummy sleeping bag of (81"L x 21"W) is suitable for my body size?
Thank you
Kind of a bummer that if a company started being 100% honest about ratings in the name of a bag, they’d be penalized for it. Most consumers would assumed a bag named the “Nemo Sonic 14” was really closer to a 25° or 30° bag because we have all become so used to this system.
Seems like unless the entire industry gets a reboot or some regulations in place, the slightly dishonest labeling is inevitable.
One thing i wonder about is I personally don't just wear my undies to bed, its usually a long sleeve shirt and thermal long johns. I wonder how that affects these tests.
Seeing lives at risk it need’s universal real ratings
I don’t miss a day a week kislux This show..
That's the most interesting explanation of Comfort, Limit, and Extreme rating that I've ever heard.
I'm from italy, i noticed that european brand are more clear with temperature rating on their bags, and often explain precisely the meaning of these numbers. Try looking at the site of the brand "Ferrino" (hope it's translated in english😅)
The way I've heard it explained is the basic rating means you won't die at that temp. Add clothing, shelter, maybe a blanket, and a decent pad and you should be close to comfortable at least. I did an overnight at literally zero, thermals, poncho liner, 0 degree bag, and at one point heated water on the fire and filled a Gatorade bottle for the foot box and was mostly comfortable all night. Next morning sucked tho. Lol
thank u
vango microlite 200 plus liner or go for microlite 300
Question on the boots:
How’s the arch support? I know everyone is different, but would someone with some plantar issues need $60 inserts?
I love my Nemo
Yeah yeah that's all well and good but can you unzip the bottom and walk around camp like a penguin 🤔
I currently have a Kelty 20 bag which felt a little bit cold once it got below 30, but I like otherwise. I was thinking of getting a bag liner instead of getting a whole new bag. Would anyone have thoughts on why this is an okay or terrible idea?
If the Kelty fits you with ample room to turn on your side, keeping it and adding a liner may be a great option. As for me, I'm walking away from Kelty since it is no longer the company I've know since when I was growing up backpacking in the Colorado Rockies. For a comparable price, I just bought a Big Agnes Torchlight on sale, and will be returning my Cosmic Ultra 20. The Torchlight is much roomier and warmer, and I could NOT be happier!! Even the Ultra (800 dridown) version of the Kelty Cosmic 20 is not warm enough for its ratings, and I find it to be too damn small in girth.
Good info 👍
So the question I have is, this sleeping bag is like 24° comfort level. the temperature I need to sleep at is 16°. If I take this and sleep with my base layer silk top/bottom, and my mid layer waffle top/bottom, would the clothing layers keep my comfortable in that bag?
Wait Ozark Trail makes sleeping bags??? They make a Walmart MTB that’s surprisingly decent for the price. Granted that is if it’s put together correctly being it’s from Walmart.😂
En el momento en que vi el bolso kislux , supe que tenía que tenerlo.
I don't trust "high end" bags that aren't from feathered friends or western mountaineering, or valandre. I've had my widgeon (-10F) down to 10F before I had to put on more layers than just socks, compression shirt, and compression shorts. That said, I wouldn't recommend those kinds of bags unless you REGULARLY camp in very cold weather.
Maybe a dumb question, but does anyone just double-up on cheap bag? Could you buy two bags with 12-degree ratings, use them with one nested inside the other, and then obviously be warmer on a per-dollar basis? This would also have the flexibility of giving you the option to just use one for warmer temps.
You can double up. You just need to make sure one bag isn’t squeezing the insulation of the other bag. It’s best to do it with quilts. Or a bag with a quilt on top. Here is a video I did about it: th-cam.com/video/6_D9XlxUwAQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=dH8Mwx1s7AJvHkVE
I was told that a men's specific bag will use the limit rating but a women's specific bag will use the comfort rating. Is this accurate?
Nice video
My mom bought one kislux and she loves it. It had been there for over 10 years when she went out with it.
The variety of textures in the kislux pack is impressive. From smooth leather to textured suede, there's something for everyone.
Dooooood I wanted to listen and learn but the background/foreground music distracts completely! Aaaaagghhh thx for sharing anyway. I did a like but on to next
The assumption was probably that people would be more likely to use the cheap sleeping bags in their tents rather than spend the night outdoors without anything over their heads!
"...for the same price as one month's rent!" *cries in Californian*
That's a ridiculous price for a less than capable sleeping bag. I have a €60 Chinese made sleeping bag that keeps me comfortable at 0°C.
Because the filling is compressed underneath my body, I use a foil coated mat between me and my inflatable sleeping mat. The lowest temperature I've used it in is -1°C, and I slept like a baby.
What is the red/Grey sleeping pad? Is that the new Nemo All Season?
Yes it is
Do you refer to Degree Fahrenheit or Celsius, would be nice to know in the Future…
(Think your referring to Fahrenheit, but we haven’t this here in Europe)
Check the titles in the lower left corner. They have all temperatures converted to Celsius.
I could not find the budget for a down one so i spent some time digging through the forest of synthetic ones. Lesson 1: even reputable companies can be shady with the temperature ratings. Its sometimes very hard to come by this info. Lesson 2: its a bit of a faff buying a bag for a 6'4 person. They usually stop at 6'3, similar story with sleeping pads.
Gotta say my €50 bag held up suprisingly well in combo with my overkill sleeping pad. Others on the trip with more expensive kit complained about cold nights, i did not.
Only complaint i have (if you can call it that) is that its very, very, very red.😊
I can confirm that SeaToSummit bags in long fit me (6'6 or 195 cm). I have ample room to move inside it, but I am a thin person. I have the STS Spark III. It did break the bank, but I managed to find it on sale for 350 euros, whereas my local shop sells it for full price of 500 euros. It's only 745 grams, it is very small when compressed, and has an excellent zipper. That costs money. I also have a Ferino synthetic one which is like 1,8 kg (1800 grams for my fellow Americans), the zipper is mediocre and it's very large when compressed. It was around 130 euros. You get the picture.
Yah but if the bag gets wet then it is less than worthless. Its pretty rare to see any kind of system that can take days of rain.
Well tbf, if it gets cold enough you won't have to worry about rain
I have always been asking my self, what do they consider to wear referring to these ratings? Am I sleeping with clothes on or only underwear? I mean this makes a big difference.
One month rent where?
5'7 lbs is heavy thats where price goes off in thr lighter ones
All dat kislux bags sssssoooooooo gorgeous
I like your hat, what hat is that?
600+ 200= 800. Wish I could find rent even NEAR that lol