I really hoped you would talk about this. I have mixed feelings about Jack Harlow's verses. I love Jungkook's lyrics. I love sexy and sexual lyrics. I have no problem with them. Jack Harlow's lyrics about the girl's body looking like a dead body and saying that he took his friends to see bothered me. Disrespectful to women. Love the rest of the song .
@@SehriJeon He did not compare a woman's body to a dead body, you misinterpreted that line. "When I seen that body, you would think it was a dead body The way I told my boys, "Come look" means that her body was so shocking, it grabbed his attention. That's it.
Hi Jose! I really like ur videos becoz all the news channels I have seen till now only give lies and 3rd class news about BTS so that their videos can get views. And still some channels are talking nonsense that Jungkook launched his song to reduce the rating of Taehyung's album or mv etc and we only support Taehyung. Plz I request u make a video on this topic and get a hard slap of cheep fake Armies
Whether you like the song or not, there is absolutely no disputing that the song is misogynistic. Even putting the words aside, the scene where there is a line of women all dressed the same to infer that we are merely objects and interchangeable is disgusting. My 15 year old daughter has expressed her concern at the damaging message that is sending out. Saying if we don’t like it then don’t listen to it, is not acceptable. Our teens are being influenced by this toxic masculinity.
I have been thinking about this all day, since the song was released. To be clear, I had no problem at all with Jungkook saying he was going to f*ck whoever it was seven days a week, and I have no problem at all with his lyrics in this song either. Also, I like de vibe of the song a lot. But speaking about JH lyrics, maybe I wouldn't go as far as misogynistic, but man it makes me cringe hard. And not only the lyrics, the visuals with all those girls standing by his side like his puppets (that's the feeling I have watching it at least) make me cringe a lot. As a woman, if I met a man in real life and listen him talking like that, it would totally be a red flag, I would never give him a chance. Definitely it's gonna be the alternative version (without JH) in my playlist.
The uproar is not about sexuality. Latto was plenty sexual in her rap lyrics in Seven, as was JK. The difference is how Jack Harlow talks about women as non-humans (like so many US rappers ). Just line 'em up; they're objects for ... never mind. Harlow's lyrics are clearly, unmistakably, misogynistic. I've lived with this garbage my entire life (I'm now 69 y/o) and yes, I can identify misogyny when I hear it. Jose, I don't think you can spin this one as simply a difference of opinion over art. You wouldn't call racism an artistic choice, would you? Or anti-Hispanic, or anti-Asian, or anti-gay lyrics --would those be acceptable as "artistic choice"? I don't think so. P.S, JK should know better; look what happened to Leo from Trainee A.
I am loving the alternate version of 3D more than the original version, idk why but i am not vibing with JH's part , after listening to Namjoon, yoongs and hobi's rap for years, rap like these doesn't impress me at all. Also the rap lyrics were very cringy and it made me feel lil uncomfortable. Now don't come at me because I loved jk's parts so much, the beat is really addictive maybe thats why i prefer the alternate version more than the orginal one. But can we just be honest jungkook can do better than this , that man his so freaking talented, i get it he is tryna explore and trying new kinda music but somehow i feel kook is in his teen rebellion phase , this is literally my honest opinion about 3d its a good song but jungkook is capable of more than this .
I agree too. We know what JK is capable of. He's written some great songs with BTS. Yes, sure, he wants to try something different and I'm all for that, but he is better than this and he can write great songs. Not sure why he chose to let others write songs for him, but will wait to see what his album is like.
@@jessjess3434 Yeah, right? The rap part lyrics are such a turn off. There are a lot of great rap parts in songs and this is not one of them. His part really ruined it for me. I think JK could have done the song without Jack Harlow tbh.
I love JK, and I am totally cool about him expressing sexuality and intimacy. I was super cool with Lotto's verses, too. Just FYI - Jack Harlow's bit in 3D was full of ick for me. JK seemed genuine in 3D. That's the difference to me.
Jack frequently presents himself as a stud in his songs, to the point where The New Yorker commented on his 'soft misogyny.' His lyrics here don't really fit that classification, but it seems to me that it might be because these lyrics are more respectful than he's used to and he doesn't quite know how to pull off 'lusty yet respectful' the way JK does.
Yes, as you said. From a kpop fan perspective, we're not used to seeing idols explicitly sing about their intimacy -- some fans even get jealous weirdly enough. So I think the biggest "outlash" is about him "singing grown" lol
Jk is a grown man and can express himself any way he wants. I am Army and love BTS, but I'm not going to put them on such a high pedestal and like everything they do just because. If a song is not my favorite I'll definitely share my opinion. With that said, the song has a great beat, Jk voice and dance is on point as always. Jack's rap is a no for me. I prefer the Alternate version and that's the one I will stream. Congrats to Jk and I wish him well. I am ready for solo songs from Jk. He doesn't need collabs. I'm ready to see and hear his solo songs. 💜
That's what I'm saying and still people calling me hater and not a "real" Army. Some of those people are acting like fanatics imo. I love the alternative version. I don't like JH verse. I was spoiled by BTS rap line and Jack's kind of lyrics are not for me.
@@Yoonji9212 I've been ARMY for 9 years and the amount of disrespect I'm seeing from newer ARMY towards other ARMY is appalling. The pushback I've received on X from supposed "OT7 ARMY" concerning JH's "rap" is ridiculous. I've been told to stay quiet and mind my own business. I've been told to stay quiet and stream anyway. I've been told that my opinions were stupid, wrong, "sounds like a prude" (which I am FAR from), and "old". The behavior of these "ARMY" is on par with solos and it's coming so fast and so furious that it's been hard to speak back or block everyone. So you're not alone in this.
@@kristie9144 I was always defending Armys but things I see recently..I don't do this anymore. It's hard to defend people when all I see is toxicity. I'm Army since 2020 and it's sad how much this fandom changed just in those years. I know how it was before from OG ARMYs like you, and it's really disappointing how much toxic people are here when ARMY was all about positivity before.
@@kristie9144 they push me I push them back. I'm not going to allow folks in a fandom bully me. I'm Asian and grew up being bullied. I stood up then and I will stand up now against haters and bullies. Whatever happened to being kind and good humans? Are people so obsessed with Jk they are willing to show such hateful behavior just because a fan doesn't like a version of his song? Very sad. 🙁
Buckle up, this is gonna be a long one... 😅 Preface: I do have a problem with Jack's part. First off, Jungkook is a fully grown young man and I totally agree that he can do whatever he wants including singing about explicit content. This is actually the first I've heard about him not understanding the lyrics and tbh that's just ridiculous imo. Of course he understands the lyrics! He's neither stupid nor a child. What I do have a problem with however is Jack's part for two reasons: 1) ABG is a term that is defined as Asian women who dress sl_tty and tend to hang around g_ngsters, in other words it's the equivalent of western rappers referring to women as "B's and ho-ho-hoe's" and that's just something I can't get behind no matter who it is and B) *I feel* that his lyrics objectify women as conquests to be counted as trophies and simultaneously showing women in a row definitely doesn't help. But those are my personal feelings and I don't state them as facts. I have no problem with JK's parts and I'm happy to support him by streaming the Alternate Version which I do like and have been streaming. My biggest problem today has actually been other ARMYs aggressively attacking those of us who share these opinions. We've been called false ARMYs, saboteurs, solo stans, antis, toxic, told to be ashamed, etc. all day long. *That's just not cool!* Imo that's totally against the core values of ARMY, BTS and the individual members. I've always promoted the guys and the fandom as positive, inclusive and respectful but what I've experienced today has absolutely made me question whether we as a fandom actually respect and uphold those principles or it's just lip service. We all have different boundaries and they need to be respected which has certainly not been the case today. For the first time ever I have actually been ashamed, not of JK but of the immature and disrespectful behaviour of some of my fellow ARMYs.
I agree. I backed off and deleted my comments because I didn't want to be attacked by fellow ARMY for something I felt was an important issue for women and men to discuss and actually have a meaningful conversation about
The blatant objectification of women, and polygamous promiscuity that 3D endorses is horrible. Sensual, sexy, and mature songs are AMAZING, but this is explicit, shallow, vulgar, and gross. It's a huge downgrade from Dreamers, Still With You, My Time, My You, Stay Alive, Begin, and Euphoria. Really disappointed.
I don't think many are complaining about Jung Kook. Jack Harlow's part is the problem. His disrespect for women goes against the "Love Yourself" message.
I read a lot of comments like "we know that Jungkook is respectful towards women" and I find it funny - because we clearly DON'T know ANYTHING about his own very private matters! There is a public and a private JK. To me his choice to agree on JH lyrics is definitely revealing, furthermore as you said, he also anticipated the shock. The song is a red flag for me. 🚩
Honestly, I'm Korean and Koreans listen to music a bit differently. The emphasis is on the melody and beats rather than the lyrics. Half the time people don't really know what the song means or what message it has. Which is why a lot of BTS music was 'missed' out on in Korea (their title songs are the only famous song). I don't think the pr team at big hit understood how big of a reaction JK would get from Jack Harlow's lyrics. All Korean music industry personnels think about these days are "globalizing kpop". Bang PD thinks they should remove K from Kpop. I know full well that they advised JK on targeting his new album to the North American listeners and I think they think it's okay to have vulgar lyrics as that is rather a norm in Hollywood. They did a great job receiving songs from western artists. They also got western artists to feature in two of his title tracks. I see how they're marketing JK. I don't think JK singing 3D or letting Jack Harlow feature with his rap has anything to do with JK's personal values. Like you said we know nothing and he clearly said the songs don't speak for any of his experience or comes from him. I know that the language barrier def had some meaning of the lyrics lost in translation even with the translator (knowing how they don't fully translate sexual nuances and slangs properly in Korea) and even if it wasn't 100% translated properly, JK said he was worried with the lyrics. I think he went with it because he got the advice and direction of the company. If he was given full freedom to do what he was comfortable with only, without thinking about how it might be rude to turn down another artists work (jack preparing his segment) and all, I don't think he would have chosen these kinds of lyrics. It's actually wild for anyone to sing these kinds of lyrics in Korea. No mainstream music is this vulgar so I assume it was a shock for JK too when he first got the lyrics translated for him. But in Korean peoples mind, that's what Americans do and maybe that's what the public likes since those songs do so well. I think Big Hit needs someone in the team from North America but someone who is familiar with Kpop. They need better understanding of North American listeners and what fans/public truly want. Kpop stands out because it's different. BTS stands out because they're unique, a breath of fresh air. There's a reason why people are attracted to BTS and their music. I hope Big Hit doesn't lost sight of the reason.
Jungkook said himself he knows exactly what the songs are about. There's literally no excuse for 3D which left A LOT of ARMYs heartbroken. Clearly most of the Korean audience don't understand - ejaculation as "rain" and "champagne" on repeat plus the stupid JH part.
@@susufromheavenI'm curious to know what makes you think that most Koreans don't understand? I think it's rather common in most cultures to identify what those types of metaphors are actually about in your basic-generic pop song, but maybe I'm wrong. My sole issue here is clearly the rap part. I always thought Jack Harlow had some garbage lyrics and was hated for a reason in the hip-hop community, but now I actually may think he's a genius as his verse managed to trigger a whole scope of different types of abuse that led a lot of armys believe it was misogynistic (in a sense, it is! Because how tf do you want to evoke such violent images in people's minds knowing that most fans are women and knowing a lot a women have traumas involving those topics, too?) Even his own fans called him out for using "dead body" while objectifying women (also so telling because Jack Harlow isn't really known to have the most respectful lyrics when talking about women, uk). So yeah, not letting anyone tell me that I'm pearl clutching or too sensitive. I personally love that Jungkook is singing about sex and I love seven, but Harlow is nothing sexy or sensual or respectful. It's actually so bad you would think it was made on purpose to set Jungkook up. (Also referring to Asian women specifically and how they get cute *for* him, just because Jungkook is Asian, hello??) I freaking hate it so much and it's so disappointing to see Jungkook performs Jack Harlow's verse again and again, counting women on his fingers and making the crowd sing along. If he likes it so much then why doesn't he sing it himself like Latto's part? There's too much to unpack here and I'll stop here because I don't want to make too much assumptions and disrespect him. This just comes from a place of genuine confusion rather than malice, and as you said I'm probably heartbroken.
@@cerise8128 Tbh this is such a wide discussion I can't type all what I want to say. I hate hate hate 3D and wished they wouldn't do it live. I don't like seeing it on Times Square although Jungkook tries his best not to mouth the rap lines - he's failing. My theory is many turned their back on him because of 3D. Why is "Standing next to you" (no vulgarities, just perfectly sweet, sensual lyrics) not really taking off? In my opinion everyone dancing or cheering on 3D isn't right in his/her mind. Who would want to be counted out like that? "1 girl - too boring?" ---> Lyrics DO matter. At least he admitted to the image change he's looking for (which he firsthandly denied). JK as fckboi. Do I like it? I'm confused.
For me personally I found JH lyrics more cringey than misogynistic which is why I wasn't really feeling it. I guess I've been too spoiled by the rap line and I also really enjoyed Latto in Seven so expectations were high. Still the songs an undeniable bop and I will fully be supporting JK like always.
I mean I feel like it's supposed to be kinda cringe and nonsensical but I don't know what people are getting to calling it misogynistic. Jack Harlow is talking about himself in the song "h0rny" and "wh0r!Ng" everything is about himself but few people with no reading comprehension think he is talking about women.. it's just weird, like people WANT it to be misogynistic when it's not.
I had no issues with all the sex talk. I just didn't think the rap part was needed or added anything specific to the song except make it sound like Jack was a fuckboy who wanted "Asian baby girls" 😂
agreed but then I have to remember that all western rap music is like this so. I’m glad I kept my expectations low for jack because i wasn’t surprised at all.
You are right Jose, words do carry weight.. And that's the reason why this rap part is labeled as misogynistic BY WOMEN... Because it must be made clear and straight forward what this is. Women are the ones who can really feel what objectifification means, not a man.. It's not about "liking and disliking".. It's something serious. Respecting and defending JK is one thing but just saying "everything is great -everything is right" while turning a blind eye, that's the wrong thing to do here.. It's not even good for him, having people praising him no matter what! He has asked from people to be honest as well.. so this is honesty! JK's part is fine, but he chose to collaborate with this man and to include his (disgusting and odjectifing) rap on the song,. At least i am glad that there are people who see it the same way as me... i thought everyone would say "oo what a masterpiece".. This song without the rap part would be just fine.. And btw no one is talkig about JK being a man, not a child anymore and that he can express himself and that he is not a virgin.. all of these are completely irrelevant to the matter here!
As a woman, I can say that you just didn’t understand the lyrics and intention of it. Your understanding is simplistic and didn’t recognize how the symbolism and storyline in the MV showed how there was a battle between two kinds of men and JK won (that’s why the chess game was there but there were other signs too). Jack also said the womanizing person was who he USED to be
No, I’m sorry that’s a stretch. I teach English analysis for a living and there are definitely elements of misogyny in there. Maybe not in JKs part, but definitely in Harlow’s. It is disappointing. What is more disappointing is that too many people are giving JK a free pass on this. I know he is the golden maknae, and I know we love him. But it is very disappointing.
Right?! Also, if it was some homophobic lyrics, how would Jose feel as a gay man? I love BTS, JK is one of the sweetest guys I’ve ever seen but this collab was poor. JH’s verse is disgusting
I am a woman, Asian ARMY living in one of Asian countries and not a native English speaker. Now, not a few ARMYs in my country are hurt, angry, and offended by the derogatory lyric about Asian women. Some are really struggling with accepting it because they love JK very much. Even if there is some hidden meaning in the lyric, many of us, who are not native English speakers, do not realize. What was conveyed to us were words that demeaned Asian women. I am one of those who disturbed by the lyric. Of course, there are ARMYs fully support JK and, sadly, attack ARMYs who express uncomfortable feeling to the song or lyrics. Fact. HYBE does not have a translated subtitle for the part of jack's lyric. It's still in English so many people in my country don't understand it. maybe HYBE knew that the lyric might be a problem among Asian women. Fact. BTS once issued a statement on hatred against Asian in US.....
@@nicolecapers6714 To add, the translated lyrics are vague about sex, and some ARMYs think this is a romantic long distance relationship, not sex. 😂 Nevertheless, there are ARMYs understand English as good as native speakers, so HYBE cannot hide everything.
Thank you for sharing your opinion. It is good to have open conversations. It is good to share different perspectives. Jungkook is very respectful towards women and as far as the lyrics being sexual that isn't a problem for me. However, as a woman, I have to express that the lyrics combined with the visuals of Harlow's part is very disrespectful to women. He is speaking about himself disrespecting women, which tells guys that the behavior is ok. It perpetuates the problem of devaluing women. That is just my opinion and they are free to express themselves, I just can't support that. I am thankful they put out an alternative version with just JK. I will always be a fan of JK and BTS and will support them where I can. Thank you for opening up a respectful conversation where we can all share our thoughts.
I see where you're coming from, but I think it's very important to differentiate mature/grown/sexy/etc from misogynistic. You can be grown and sexy without degrading women. The implication that the only way to be grown is to objectify women is so incredibly harmful. I also want to note that I would never blame him for not realizing how these lyrics would come across, but now that he knows, he/jack/hybe should take accountability. Honestly, if he came out with a statement that he didn't realize how these lyrics would come across so now he will learn and do better in the future, I would have huge respect for that. There was no real backlash with Seven because it was sexy, not misogynistic. I 100% agree that no reasonable person should be upset with a 26 year old JK for talking about sex. The problem that I have with the song, and specifically Jack's verse, is that it isn't just a matter of embracing his sexuality, it's specifically about using women for sex. One woman wasn't enough for him so he needs 4, (the way he says it comes across like he sees these woman as objects to be used, not people to be loved). It's also weirdly fetishizing of Asian women with the "All my ABGs get cute for me" line. Also "When I seen that body, you would think it was a dead body the way I told my boys, "Come look"" gives me terrible vibes all around. The implication that he's showing all of his boys this woman's body is weird on it's own, especially in conjunction with his line about getting a woman to "play" with herself on camera for him. Not to mention the comparison to a dead body specifically, instead of literally anything that would be more flattering, gives me very creepy vibes of the person being unconscious. I fully support JK being mature and showing that maturity, but this rap was misogynistic, and turning a blind eye doesn't change that. I will continue to support JK, but I will not be listening or recommending the Jack Harlow version of the song, and I really hope JK and ARMY take this opportunity to genuinely reflect on the topic of misogyny and doing better, like RM did with getting his lyrics reviewed by a women's studies professor when he was accused of misogynistic lyrics (Which were way less problematic than this but he still took accountability and learned from the situation).
What RM did with taking accountability is a big reason that BTS is respected for their lyrics. I agree with you completely about all you said. I just got a little sick to my stomach about the dead body line. Have you ever seen the movie Rivers Edge.? Creepy but I think it was based on a true story. Anyway, JK just got back from GCF where one of the big topics is women’s inequality in the world etc. I found out a lot of facts on the app ( I won tickets to the show!) about this topic and I just have a real aversion to anything JH talks about in his rap. JK’s lines were fun and sexy. I know JK is a sexual potent man probably with a great libido, but does he really want to own this other creepy stuff? It makes me uncomfortable because I don’t want to believe he is ok with this.
exactly! my thoughts exactly! 💯 nothing wrong with a sex song but degrading women, disrespecting us and portraying us as sex objects are such a NO NO to me.
@@marinaaliongcoBro you realizes it’s a two way street right? Men and women sexualize each other female and male rappers. Plus Jack is speaking about himself and matching the concept of the song which JK wanted I’m sure he doesn’t give a fuck what people think hence why he released it
Ok now let the women speak...I don't need a man to tell me what I should and shouldn't find degrading. You can make the most sexually explicit music without it being degrading to women! I am talking about jack's first rap verse in case you are wondering.
I’m a woman, I’m a female. I was not offended by the song. Humans are sexual beings, and thus I have 0 problem with HUMANS-men and women making songs about sex. Jack Harlow & JK is not gonna fuck you or approach you to fuck. This is about them dealing with women who WANT to have sex with them. JK & Jack Harlow both said in the song “SO IF YOU LET ME, I WANNA SEE IT IN MOTION.” It’s literally about CONSENT, don’t we all say “consent is sexy” Jack Harlow said in the end “AND YOU AIN’T GOTTA GUARANTEE NOTHING I JUST WANNA SEE IF I GET LUCKY, I JUST WANNA MEET YOU IN THE PHYSICAL AND SEE IF YOU WOULD TOUCH ME” again CONSENT & Jack Harlow saying he will fly a girl out to him to just have her AROUND him, just see IF she would let him have sex with her. She doesn’t even HAVE to GUARANTEE she will have sex with him, there is 0 PRESSURE. He just wants to see if he gets LUCKY & she would TOUCH him. He just wants to see her beauty in person. So many women make explicit songs, same thing with Latto. CONSENT. Stop being offended. I have heard songs about men forcing women to do things, this ain’t that. Breathe, and don’t listen to it if you don’t want to.
JK has the right to express his sexuality but 3D misogynistic lyrics and video is gross. Also fetishized Asian women. Double ick. Not going to give JK a pass here. This is HIS song, and I’m sure he heard the lyrics before the recording. He was part of the video. He had the clout to say something. How are female ARMYs supposed to feel when BTS/JK sing about loving yourself but puts out these misogynistic messages on his solo.
My opinion is that Jack Harlow's lyrics are misogynistic. As context, I do have advanced education in gender studies and my career involves both vetting social media content for gender-based issues and working directly with and advocating for victims of gender-based violence. My problem isn't with JK releasing sexually explicit music. My problem isn't with believing JK should remain "innocent" or be pigeon-holed into an image that's not authentic. As you say repeatedly, he's an adult. My problem is that BTS has struggled with ARMYs calling out their misogyny in the past and they addressed it directly and thoughtfully--dare I say, with MATURITY. This time around, instead of thoughtful, respectful engagement, we have mass gaslighting and attacks from ARMY, and dismissal/silence from JK and BigHit/HYBE. I'm neither stupid, naive, nor am I a "prude" as has been the most common response to my concerns. The idea that it is my duty as an ARMY to stream and support above all else is laughable. I will never compromise my personal ethics in that way, and if BTS has any integrity in the messaging they have consistently put out over the past decade, they wouldn't want me to. I have as much right to not support this song as other ARMYs have to support it. Not once have I tried to convince other ARMYs to agree with me or change their behavior to suit me. The much sadder consequence of this whole experience for me, is that it makes me question the sincerity of other BTS/HYBE content. As an ARMY, is the message still to love myself? To respect myself? Am I valuable as a human being? Because Jack Harlow's lyrics contradict that messaging. HYBE is selling a product, so is BTS. So is JK, and if supporting misogyny in his content is authentically who he is, fine--he's an adult. A huge part of the appeal for me with BTS is that I don't have to put up with the degrading content that's so pervasive in popular entertainment, and I understand that JK/HYBE are chasing those sweet American market dollars. If part of being an ARMY is going to require me to do mental gymnastics and set aside my personal ethics to twist misogynistic lyrics into something that I don't feel degraded by, then it's time for me to go. And that's sad for me. But I'm far from the only ARMY struggling with this sense of insincerity and hypocrisy right now. And no, I won't just shut up about it--silencing respectful voices of dissent never strengthens communities. Where I once believed that ARMYs could have these difficult discussions and become a stronger community for it, right now, I understand why so many non-ARMYs see us as cultish.
A very much needed comment. I can´t believe what´s happening right now and how the whole BTS brand is being flushed down the toilette, not necessarily because of the song itself but because of what it means for the principles they always used to have. To reduce the whole issue with the song to fans inability to see JK as an adult, sexually driven man is such an offense to our intelligence I am genuinely bummed.
This is the first comment where I've referenced it because every other attempt to engage in honest conversation has been overwhelmed with name-calling and gaslighting. I was hoping to get around the idea that I just don't understand what I'm talking about or that my issue is with sexually explicit content. Borahae 💜 @@LCAS3
Thank you so much. Appreciate your efforts. I, too, tried to make a point without mentioning work background and although I have seen the dissonance myself in the field in real life, it is still very painful to witness in these social media platforms the degree to which these issues have been 'normalised / desensitised' in society. It can be overwhelming to see how it is dismissed as nothing more than a joke, standard rap language so it is ok, "that's life, grow up, it's just a song" and any number of excuses when these are very real global issues that women battle every single day, some with horrific consequences. To those with lived experiences and who continue to go through such traumatizing experiences, a carelessly used derogatory word in the guise of a rap lyric is their actual reality.
As someone who wasn’t a fan of Seven (i identify as ace and I get the ick from anything sexual) or 3D(once again, too sexual for me, plus i do not like harlow’s lyrics), I don’t personally like the content, and that’s fine. Does that mean I’m not gonna support him in future endeavors? Of course I will! But I don’t think it’s right to force people to like something they don’t vibe with. It’s not about Jungkook’s age or how he wants to approach his dream of being a global pop star for some people. It’s about being triggered by the song for whatever reason, and feeling uncomfortable. And then being told that they’re an anti or they’re sabotaging his streams because they don’t want to listen to something that makes them uncomfortable!! JK knows we’re not all gonna like every song, he’s gonna keep doing his own thing, and I’ll support him when I’m able to stomach the content. But it sucks being lumped in with people who still view JK as some baby who isn’t allowed to do stuff like this.
I'm all for men growing up and experimenting with sound. What disturbs me is the tone of his direction. It's not just Jungkook. It's US pop music in general. It's very harsh and aggressive toward women. I hate to see this harshness being perpetuated by anyone toward anyone. All men should be allowed to grow up and experiment and become who they are without oppressing folks.
@@penyarol83 And US pop music has been that way for decades…From Madonna, Brittany Spears, Justin Timberlake, and others of that era to rappers like Jay Z and Lil Nas X collaborating with pop artists. What’s different now? At least JK didn’t just put it out there like a lot of artists do now. Heck…even Beyonce leaves nothing to the imagination. Women are no longer being victims of objectification in music. They have taken their power back and are flipping the script; single by single and album by album…
I LOVE that in both Seven and 3D, while obviously about sex, it's very clear that he approaches it with a lot of care and intimacy and that makes me love these songs even more.
@@Idgaf838 Good examples in the replies already but "show you what devotion is, deeper than the ocean is", "weight of the world on your shoulders, I kiss your waist and ease your mind". Obviously having that much sex would get super uncomfortable, but it's clear that his partner comes first (wink wink) and he just wants to give them everything he has...which is very caring to say the least.
Thanks for the discussion. There is also people saying that when Harlow is speaking about a dead body that he’s talking about drugging women. That is SUCH a reach. But that’s out there. Would love to see more discussion about these lyrics.
🙌🏼!!yyYAAaSSss!!👏🏼… 🍓thªnk yOu!🐢 JOSE… the MV is 🔥HaWT🔥 😍💥DAyYyumM!!🔥🤩 …. truly sorry for the ones who can’t accept it, ya’ll missin a lot… they want wholesome? There’s an entire genre, station, popular artists for that. They can go there. Once again… I agree with onthemetro10 … and thank you thank you thank you JOSE! 🙌🏼
I'm in the camp of JK can do whatever he wants. I am also in the camp that if i don't like a song, regardless of how much I like/love and audience, then I just won't listen to the song. That doesn't mean I don't like the artist. It just means I didn't vibe with that track and THAT'S OK! But I will say in regards to 3D, I don't need to hear a version with Jack Harlow again. It was my first experience hearing him and frankly, he sounded corny and cringy. I didn't like him. No thank you. But let JK live.
So agree. If I dont like it, I wont listen to it. Whar ive seen though is that some people take that as you arent a fan or are being toxic when you express that
José I totally understand defending Jungkook here as he’s allowed to express his sexuality + I highly doubt he participated in writing Jack Harlow’s verse. The criticism of misogyny is not on JK, it’s on Harlow. You’re allowed to have your opinion yes, but as a man you don’t get to say something isn’t misogynistic (I say this as a man myself). “ABG”s is a phrase that not only fetishizes Asian women (search “Yellow fever”), it’s derogatory as it specifically refers to lower class women in an offensive way. Also, you say him talking about his number of girls is not misogyny because he’s just expressing that he’s a sexual person, but you got to look at everything in the song and video. In the video, he literally lines women up side by side as if they are toys and judges them and their value to him, which is literally the definition of objectification. There is no subjectivity here. Harlow’s lyrics are objectively misogynistic and objectively anti-Asian. This isn’t even a criticism of JK, it’s all on Harlow, so I simply just don’t understand why you’re jumping through loops to defend these lyrics when they are obviously misogynistic. I really like your videos and you usually hit the mark, but sometimes I feel like you really let your bias get in the way when it comes to controversies surrounding the boys.
This is so well said. Thank you! Almost everyone who has a problem with this song has a problem with JH, not JK. You don't leave critical thinking behind when you become ARMY. I was discussing this with a male friend earlier (I'm female) and he agreed that a man has no place lecturing anyone about misogyny. I like Jose, but agree that he missed the mark here.
@@wise5746 - I just want to point out as someone who worked in the music biz, that JK might NOT have as much control as people think. There are label executives, writers, producers & video director that all have more input. - The rest of the song, he agreed to sing. But as far as control over the (demeaning) rap part... I don't know.
@@lalaking7974 That's true, but I also feel people shouldn't immediately try to dismiss that JK could've had a hand in approving what lyrics went into the song he chose. I feel like more fans need to accept that as a possibility rather than just coddling JK for his every decision. After all, providing him with constructive critique is what's gonna allow him to grow more than praising his every song ever will.
I think you have to consider your audience. If you have a clean image and choose to change, there needs to be a warning. Even if it’s mainly just the collab. Harlow is being disrespectful. The way he just stepped over the “dead body” in a dismissive way is an example.
@@KathleenMeehan-gq8bs No Jungkook doesn't needed to take responsibility with teenagers army that is the teenages army parents job not Jungkook it's the parent to watch over what they teen watches or says
With all due respect my guy, I feel like you completely failed to mention the versus that most people _actually_ have a problem with, rather than trying to relate it to Jungkook and people not allowing him to be a grown man etc etc. For example, you skipped straight over Jack's line that went "When I seen that body, you would think it was a dead body. The way I told my boys, "Come look." Like... I don't blame people for thinking that's a really gross line. It's kinda giving **potential trigger warning** Jung Joon Young vibes from him bragging to his friends about the women he filmed himself raping while they were unconscious, AKA in a 'dead body' state. Like I doubt that was the intention, but the line still has really gross connotations that caused me to be reminded of that case. Not to mention Jack literally uses the word "thots," (which you also didn't mention) which even the dictionary acknowledges as a derogatory word used against women who have had various sexual encounters, even though there inherently is nothing wrong with that. Only when a woman does it apparently. So yes, using such a word stemming from misogyny, is indeed misogynistic. And seeing how at 10:07 you explicitly say that you think Jack's verse was just him talking about his "sexual openness" rather than him being a womaniser, really tells me all I need to know about why you made this video in the first place. Overall, it feels like you are being rather selective about which lyrics you are choosing to discuss and neglecting the parts in Jack's versus which objectively _are_ misogynistic, proving that you're yet another man trying to speak on something that he has never experienced, yet is trying to tell the people who _do_ experience it that it's not misogynistic. And trust me, that's not something you want to be known for.
Okay yall took the dead body part too far 🤣 if I saw that body you would think it was a dead body the way I tell my friends come look. She's so attractive you'd think somebody died because of how much of a stirrup he causin to get them to come look. It's never been about rape.....idea where yall got that from (edit) "thot" means that hoe over there it's general not just for women males can be thots too 🤣 his whole verse literally is him saying he used to be a man whore then got locked down by one girl and now he only obsessed with her and her attention.
@@kaylalezine2295 Never said it directly was about rape, just that it had strong connotations to it. Not sure why you apparently couldn't understand "where I got that idea from" when I just explained so in my comment you replied to, but 🤷♀ No matter how you try and twist it, it's still objectifying to get "your boys" to come look at your partner as if she's some sort of pretty display. And regardless if the term 'thot' is being used for boys as well, it doesn't change how it's originally intended as a derogatory term for women, much like how slut and whore is. You using the term 'man whore' rather than just 'whore' when referring to Jack showcases this exactly.
@goldenfred5815 bud the line wasn't "come look at my girlfriend!" It was take my boys to stony Brooke which is a street usually where people catch a date or hook up they'd watch girls go by dude went up there saw her and told his boys to come look
@@kaylalezine2295 "a street usually where people catch a date or hook up they'd watch girls go by, dude went up there, saw her and told his boys to come look" is an exact demonstration of objectifying someone. Going up there to watch women walk by for your own pleasure is highly likely to make them feel objectified and grossed out. Especially if you're specifically drawing attention to her by calling your friends over to look at her when she's just minding her business. And the fact that it's apparently a notorious place for that reason just makes it worse lmao. And my point is that you wouldn't need to use the word 'man whore' if the term was truly a neutral one, which it's not. Because even today, terms like bitches, whores, sluts, hoes are degradations that still mostly are (and originally intended) to be used against women, hence is also why if you were to call a woman any of those words even today, you bet you'll be highly likely (and rightly) called out for misogyny.
Why skip over the entire lyric that details mysoginistic behaviour in order to defend the rest of his verse that isn't at all problematic (apart from maybe the ABGs line that you also knda glossed over)? The line "when I seen that body, you would think it was a dead body, the way I told my boys 'come look'." that you conveniently skiped over is mysoginistic. It describes a behaviour by men of treating a women they are attracted to as a gawking object for other men to look at. The only 2 scenarios here are - this is a girl jack is already with and he is "showing her off" to his friends and attaching the "value" he sees in her to her looks (the value other men would approve of, meaning her worth to him is dependent on other men being attracted to her as well) - this is a random girl jack saw and was attracted to and wanted to get his friends to gawk at her along with him (objectifying her) instead of treating her like an actual person In both scenarios a woman is being objectified (seemly against her will) by a group of men thanks to Jack's actions. I understand supporting JK, I have no issue with his songs being sexual, I have no issue with jack harlow, I have no issue with defending JK's autonomy as an artist and a grown ass man, what I do have an issue with is picking and choosing the things we are going to analize in order to defend jack's verse just to "go against jk haters" in a very broad way. What I have an issue with is painting all criticism as hate, it's addressing all these issues as if they are all being said by the same ppl. Yes, many armys have had a problem with the song, some for ridiculous reasons, it's okay to call that out, it's not ok to group together everyone who has found an issue with the song for different reasons as if they are all one in the same and dismiss the legitimate criticism (i.e. perpetuating mysoginistic attitudes) many armys have pointed out.
I'm a veteran ARMY (2014) and I've seen the members do everything from soft to softcore. Neither 7 nor 3D are all that shocking compared to some of the older material. My issue is with Harlow. If people stepped back and looked at his ENTIRE catalog as a whole, you'd see that it reads poorly for women. It's cringe at best and absolutely misogynistic at worst. I am not going to fault JK for choosing to collab with him. That choice isn't up to me. I will always support the members as they are my priority. However, I will not support Harlow in any capacity - be it interviews or whatever.
Why not fault JK for collabbing w/ him if he’s such a cringe/misogynistic artist? It seems like ARMY are so afraid of having any criticism of the members.
@@penyarol83 unfortunately the western music industry is full of artists like Jack Harlow and that is what is popular right now.. so if the goal is to achieve success as a global pop artist, you need to align with western artists that are currently popular and will expose JK to a broader audience. When I saw he was collaborating with JH, I knew from jump there would be controversy. We can absolutely criticize the collab choice, but I gather that’s a risk JK, the producers and labels are willing to make.
I definitely think this was a deliberate experiment to see the magnitude of the controversy vs. the bump in US sales and air play. Also, of course, JK indulging in some youthful rebellion he’s been suppressing for a long time. He was really really young when RM was catching flack for War of Hormone (so innocent, actually) and deleting Expensive Girl.
i am a 58 year old army. i was drawn to bts because of their meaningful and mature lyrics. yes, i am not into this kind of lyrics but it doesnt mean i am not going to support him anymore. he is like my child that even though i dont approve of every decision he does, it doesnt mean that i love him less. will i listen to this song again,? no, but still waiting for other projects for him
I think there are two discussions being made when it comes to this song and the reactions. People have a problem with JH and his part of the song and they voice their opinions, they are not hating on JK or the rest of the song, it's just JH part does not sit well with them. They are then attacked by parts of the fandom, being called names, being told that what they are feeling is wrong, they have the wrong opinions...almost being gaslit and victim blamed. I have a big issues with that! Everyone is allowed an opinion, everyone is allowed to express that opinion and no one should ever be told off for expressing it. I also see a lot of people saying that the people that expresses a different opinion than just blindly loving the song just doesn't understand that JK is an adult singing about s*x. That's not the issue most people seem to have with the song. So again, instead of just letting people have their opinion, other people are explaining away their opinions by saying, oh you don't want him to grow up etc. My honest opinion is that it is a mediocre western pop song, could have been sung by anyone, and we know the song was being shopped around as JK admits to listening and looking over several options before settling for this one. Did JK need JH on the song, absolutely not, he could have carried the song all by himself, the man is really talented. Do I wish he perhaps would have chosen something different and a different artist to work with, sure, but this was his choice, just as it is my choice to not listen to the song 24/7 because it's just not for me. (Rap line is more my line) He is an adult and this is the path he has for now chosen with his musical career, that does not mean that the entire BTS fandom need to swallow it all and praise it to the sky. There's seven of them, they have all shown us how different they are and we do not blindly have to buy everything from everyone. No one is a bad Army for not buying this song, it just shows that you're a free thinker and know what you like and dislike and that's the beauty of our fandom, the diversity. We don't all have to love everything at all times. 💜💜💜
@@hummingbird11 I feel the same way, JK has chosen a musical path that I don't like. That's his choice and it makes him happy. Doesn't mean I think badly of him. I just don't have to listen to the songs either.
Jose, are you interested in listening to an Asian woman that disagrees with your opinion? I'm not Asian but am female. There are more eloquent Asian women addressing this better than I can. Still I don't agree you can make this definitive response as if anyone that has genuine disagreement is labeled wrong. I don't agree with a white male rapper using terms like ABG, a woman like a 'de*d body' and thots. So are we infantilizing when the expectation is simply respect? Respectfully Jose, I don't agree with you painting this in 1 broad stroke.
I love Jose, and Jungkook is my bias. I’m disappointed by jack harlow’s lyrics because as a society, we know better and we can do better (case in point, almost all BTS lyrics that focus on self love and acceptance). I think Jungkook versus Harlow is a perfect example of how being sexual can be done either with sincerity or in a cringy and distasteful way. I’ll still to the alternate version without the rap…
@@jmbltc Except converse high referred to sex by using clever references and didn't have to be in an explicitly sexual and distasteful manner. And after Expensive Girl, RM has since admitted to seeing a woman's professional expert to check his lyrics for any misogyny, so not sure what point you're trying to make gurl 😭
@@GoldenWreck expensive girl is NAWT misogynistic my friend😭 that's literally the point I'm trynna make that whole thing was not meant for expensive girl and not everything always has be in innuendos some of y'all just ain't used to that typa music I'll assume
There’s a difference between explicit and using women like Jack Harlow sings about. He has women lined up like objects. This is not an issue with being explicit!!! It’s an issue of respect. Talk about turning yourself inside out to try to excuse Jack’s part.
No one is questioning Jungkook’s intelligence. But the fact is that 3D is a song by Jungkook of BTS featuring Jack Harlow, and the song contains a slur targeting women of Asian heritage. That’s a problem and Jungkook needs to own up to it. I expect nothing less from a BTS member.
It's sad to me that so many people seem to genuinely believe that those objecting are prudish, or "don't want him to grow up", rather than understanding that there is a difference between respectful, erotic, sexuality and disrespectful, immature vulgarity. The only respectful words in the song are "if you're ready and if you'll let me", and JK made sure to highlight them and tell us those words were his, and if you've seen him on Weverse listening to it, he's clearly uncomfortable with the language - it's not putting him down to point this out, it's supporting him.
I just posted a comment but cannot see it! JK has been my bias for a very long time and I love him a lot 💜 However, there are misogynistic undertones and the fetishization of asian of women which have deep colonial and orientalist roots with implications on Jack's part. There's literally a whole line of women and none of them are even asian. As armies, we have a right to support Jungkook, but also a right to not sacrifice our self-respect at the cost of anything. The same way BTS and JK would do the same. (They unfollowed a load of people on twitter). If JK fully understands and endorses these ideas, then that is something JK will be challenged on, the same way he would challenge armies when his self respect is on the line. It's good to have these conversations as respecting women and surrounding yourself with those who do is the sexiest thing 💜
I'm a 71-yr-old great grandma. If I was JK's grandma, I would say, "Sweetie, I don't like this." But... I am NOT his grandma; I am nothing to him (other than ARMY). As ARMY, my responsibility is to support him. Also... this song is 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 💜💪🏻💜
57 year old Army! Yes I clutched my pearls but because I like that JK is showing that he is a man and if you think nephew is not doing grown up things, oh well live in Egypt and be in denial, but all 7 are grown, grown enough to serve their country in the military and grown enough to say he is having sex ( because you know he is). Let OT 7 grow up y’all!
As far as I can tell, the negative reactions are directed towards Jack Harlow’s lyrics-not JK’s. I feel like you’re not responding to the most powerful and trenchant critiques out there. Take this excerpt from critic Tiffany Vogt’s tweets: “Misogyny is when women are portrayed as objects and forced into situations without independent ability to have control over their lives. Use of ‘took’ implies force and lack of choice. Isolating a women in a remote location then inviting ‘my boys to come look’ sounds like a captive situation. The ‘one girl’ ‘two girl’ ‘three girl’ ‘four girl’ lyrics indicate how men view one women as not enough and how men will pressure other men to collect women. Also saying ‘I will fly you from Korea to Kentucky’ suggests women don’t have their own money and wouldn’t be able to leave. So much of the featured artist lyrics are deeply misogynistic.” Wanted to share the counterpoint-I don’t personally want to get involved in the argument. I’m happy to keep streaming the alternate version.
I will be playing the alternate version. Because I DO like things sexy; and there is nothing sexier than trust. I wouldn’t trust Hack Harlow with a pack of my gum, let alone Armys love, loyalty, desire, tenderness, passion and lust. Do you understand? Jack barging into this otherwise perfect song and video ..reminds me of some Team 10 sh*t. And there’s nothing sexy about that. I’m not a prude, I happen to think for example War Of Hormone is the opposite of misogyny: it’s phylogeny. I’m not anti collab either; RM and Paul Blanco is Chef’s kiss, JK and Latto together on stage in New York.. I was watching that wanting them to connect even more! She chewed up her verse, added to the song and video, and was fully empowered. And sexy af. Suran, YouJeen, Colde, Megan Thee Stallion, JuiceWrld, SoYoOn, Halsey, Park Ji Yoon, Supreme Boi, Nell, Max, Psy, freaking Balming Tiger (are you kidding me they are fire: subversive, edgy, so sexy), Becky G…. I Love them all so much. Armys shouldn’t have to work this hard to explain why this felt like a boot to our huge collective Purple Heart; why Jack’s verses, persona, past collab with Chris Brown, his gross weird cheesy performative objectification of the women in the 3D video, vs JK empowering the women dancers .. why this feature was such a turn off. Hurtful even. The contrasts are so stark. Holding someone you love to a standard isn’t being unsupportive. It’s the opposite. If we didn’t love and care for our guys so much we’d be like whatever with this. They expect a certain ethic of conduct from us; in any worthwhile relationship that’s a two way street. I just hope Kookie understands. Borahae. 💜🫶
I just want to say that I believe some of the criticism is valid and deserves to be heard, it's not just "haters", people getting triggered for no reason or because people want JK to stay cute and innocent forever. Also, I think it’s not for men to decide if it’s misogynistic or not. It made me feel very uncomfortable and I know I’m not the only woman who feels that way. You should acknowledge that and at least try to understand where we’re coming from. Yes, this criticism is mostly about Jack’s rap but it’s a JK song and he’s apparently ok with this message being on his song. So I do feel he’s at fault too. Ok, so I have a few points: Jack Harlow's rap part is just not good, like he rhymed took with took, body with body and story with story??? That’s just lazy und uncreative. It’s bad even when you ignore how degrading it is. And it is degrading. I mean how he literally lined up women, sorry but WTF? Yes he's only talking about himself but he's still portraying that behavior (having sex with lots of different women and basically reducing them to sexual objects) as something cool and positive. It's not positive and I don't want to listen to that. I do think it's misogynistic and I'm not saying that lightly, I understand why other people use that word. Apart from that, the song just seems very shallow and manufactured. The reason I like BTS so much is exactly because it's not manufactured. 3D is like the type of mainstream pop music I actively avoid, and which made me turn to BTS instead because BTS was never like this, not even the English songs. Like imagine if 3D was your first impression of him, you wouldn't be able to get a sense of an identity from him. I mean what is the message here? He likes to f*ck? Ok? That's just not that interesting, yes people like to f*ck. We know that. There's no subtlety, no nuance, no story. It's not "mature" either, more like a teenage boy bragging. And I actually like sexy music - when it’s seductive, sensual, cheeky… you know like Pied Piper or Like Crazy or Want by Taemin. But not like 3D. It doesn't really show his amazing talents in singing and dancing either. Like there is nothing in this song that sets it apart or that is new or fresh, it seems more like a pop song made by an old white dude that thinks this is what a hit sounds like. I'm genuinely disappointed.
I 100% agree with you. I also become a fan because of their meaningful songs and hardcore performances. Thinking of Jungkook's talent and capability, it is really hard to believe that he is singing such type of shallow, low content songs. If his whole album is like this that will be so disappointing. 2 years ago he reignited my desire to take my music career seriously.
My opinion only, JK wants the attention and ratings and he's learned how to play the billboard game to get there. For years, people said he is the best. He has said BTS wouldn't exist if he wasn't in the group. To me, JK is acting like a bragging, do whatever i want too my fans will love me teenage boy. Most of that is the shock factor. Drink alot on Vlive, sing in English swear alot and bring in sex. Western culture at its finest. I live in the US and this is sad. I too went down the rabbit hole for their lyrics and dancing. I'm sure alot of us did. Music that mattered. Did JK really think fans wouldnt dissect his song and look for meaning? My own opinion when the guys get back together, I really hope JK isn't a writer for their new music if this is the direction he wants to go.
@@garydemers3249 You spoke my mind. Jungkook inspired me hugely as a singer. After Backstreet boys and Bryan Adams he was the one after ages who made a huge impact on me as an amazing singer and performer. But I'm absolutely disappointed seeing his new image. I didn’t have much issue with his drinking and smoking but I couldn’t accept his shallow sexual songs, not one but two! And yes there are millions of fans who will support him blindly even if he makes garbage music. Unfortunately he is not inspiring me anymore with this attitude.
Most people don't have any problem with JK's part because There's nothing wrong with it. But since Jack is saying that he has/had relationships with multiple women just for fun & excitement, people aren't liking it because he treated women like objects. Since the song 3D is recognized with Jungkook's name as "Jungkook's 3D song" people are disappointed that Jungkook agreed to have such lyrics(only jack's part) in HIS song. Singing about having sex with the 1 person you love is absolutely okay because it's just a normal thing but having lyrics which objectified women kinda feels wrong because JK himself is not that kind of a person but still he has such lyrics in HIS song
Technically, we don’t know that JK isn’t that kind of person. He’s one of the most famous musicians who ever lived and women and men are throwing themselves at him constantly. I mean, he’s not Gene Simmons bragging about conquests, but he’s not short on opportunities. So I think some of the fans’ discomfort with the rap part is the disconnect between how we view JK and the possibilities about his personal life that him liking Jack Harlow’s music forces us to consider. It kind of shatters an illusion . . . And I think that was a big part of this choice.
@@hannasizemore8028 I understand that we don't know JK completely but if we have followed him from a long time, watched his videos especially all of his lives, we do get to know what kind of personality he has. His personality is definitely not like in Jack harlow's lyrics. We can surely say that he's not that kind of a guy
@@staycalmandkeepworking I'm inclined to agree with you. Dude's a sweetheart, and he was raised by JHope, RM, and Suga, three of the most thoughtful and respectful humans on earth. But technically we don't know the details of his relationships, or how he navigates the conflicts of his job and his love life, which have to be intense. And even nice people can screw up. I think he's begging us not to see him as a saint. We're all so committed to that view he has to go to some extremes. 🙂
@@hannasizemore8028 He chose this song but that definitely need not be a direct representation of his personality. As an artist, he can have different reasons for choosing it. And besides many fans are enjoying this song. But that doesn't mean all of them are like that too😅 And yes JK doesn't want us to see him like a saint. He wants us to treat him like a grown man , an adult since most fans always treat him like a cute baby. It does feel really annoying when people still treat you like an innocent baby when you're a grown adult
Wow, the one time in America when an Asian man does a video represented as a sexy symbol, some can't handle it and start calling it Misogyny and whatever else to shut it down. For decades Hollywood has belittled, ridiculed and portrayed Asian men as "effeminate" and Asian men have suffered for it in real life. Why didn't the same ranters ranting about JK's 3D call out Justin Timberlake, Usher, Justin Beiber, Backstreet Boys, George Michael's, J Balvin, Drake, etc etc for making MV's with lyrics far more scathing? Also why are you blaming an Asian man for what the white guy wrote? It's a known fact, in the music industry it's common courtesy and professional not to meddle in the other artists work when collabing. You really think JK is going to be the rude artist and tell Harlow...."Hey, we can't use that line, go back and redo it." After knowing the effort hard work and energy expended in doing their part? Come on people.......Stop being hypocritical. If you're going to criticize JungKook for something as vanilla as 3D then make sure you go on Drakes, Justin's, J Balvin's or whoever else's MVs and call them out as well.
I have zero issues with JK getting his freak on. I have issues with Harlow "putting these shrooms to good use". I mothereffing hope he's saying HE took the shrooms and not that he gave them to her for a purpose. I have a problem with calling women thots. I have a problem with JK being ok with having that word associated with him. Truly triggered.
I enjoy your channel and I never comment here. But I felt I had to share my perspective on this. I’m completely fine with JK making the decision to make his music highly sexual in nature. I say go for it if that’s your thing. But your analysis of the misogynistic aspects of this song and video seemed off the mark and tone deaf. Women are 100% being objectified in this music/video. To say otherwise is being an apologist. Also the ABG reference is racist on its face and even more problematic coming from a white man who’s interacting with zero Asian women. Also, you completely left out one of the most problematic lines in your analysis - “I got you playing with yourself on camera” This is something that young women are often pressured into doing to satisfy a man’s fantasy and it is degrading. Bottom line is that JK had complete creative control here as you say, so if there’s anything in the song/video that he was in uncomfortable with, he would have changed it. So, he also has to take that responsibility. And finally, all of the reactions I’ve seen to this criticism on YT have been done by men. I don’t think most women appreciate being told how they should feel about this by a man.
I agree. Especially since famous men can easily solicit nudes and stuff from fans and that’s just gross. Plus calling girls thots and stuff. I’m actually happy there was a lot of diversity in the video, so I don’t mind that there was no Asian girls. It’s probably Jungkook choosing who to cast, too. But yeah those rap lines were unnecessary.
oh, Jose. who am i but someone who loves watching your reactions in respect to your kindhearted, funny and thoughtful perspectives (especially re our beloved JK). howeverrrr, gotta say this: JK didn't need Harlow and his misogynistic lyrics on his song insulting JK's own female fan base. sure, JK is young, bold and absolutely should be allowed to express his true self freely, push the envelop, be his own kinda bad boy (since, you know, we trust his heart), make mistakes, find more successes, etc., and grow through his experiences as a solo artist - that is something we all look forward to. but is allowing featured artists on his songs to objectify women/ABGs acceptable? i absolutely understand that art is subjective, and believe me, i take no issue w/ more "mature" or explicit directions, per se (btw, it was very generous and thoughtful of JK to create 2 versions of Seven to include a broader range for ARMY to choose from). but this sticking point within the ARMY fan base relating to misogyny/objectifying women is merited and should never be glazed over, as it extends beyond the ARMY fan base, at the expense of those who are being covertly marginalized. the thing is, i do expect that JK knows what message he's putting out there... and that, honestly, is part of the problem. there's no question (or complaint) about JK's own ability to exude sexiness, that he * knows * how to be sexy (he sure doesn't need anyone to tell him how)! his own lyrics in 3D, for instance, are steamy in a creative, teasing, fun kind of way - in and of itself, adding even more intrigue to JK, the solo artist. it's refreshing af. but Harlow on the flip side... young or old bud, misogyny is misogyny; veiled insults trying to give the impression of some semblance of humility or appreciation are still insults. in the 3D mv, Harlow made his nuanced, yet obvi messages clear by lining up women like a meat market to cater to his clearly over-inflated ego. it was humiliating and cringeworthy to view. and labeling it something it is? Harlow objectifying "ABGs" for starters? um yeh... i'll choose to be more concerned w/ not glazing over, nor normalizing that direct object ass branding by Harlow, as he uses stories of his supposed sexual exploits to pat his fat ego on the back. just...yuck. as a long time ARMY, i know you're aware as to why BTS opted not to promote misogyny as whole, that also in doing so, they were able to attract a massive global fanbase, many of who were flatly sick of rappers self-promoting by objectifying feminine gender. so what then is Harlow's grand contribution to JK's reputation as a grown ass man? is the presumed preference of some viewers acceptance of misogyny how JK wants to represent himself as a man? JK doesn't need to be riding on Harlow's coat tails, we all know that. i'm all about our guy being himself - and JK's parts in the video damn sure got me on my feet... until Harlow chimed in. Q: if Harlow's lyrics were versed out to be marginally homophobic yet in stinging, direct effect, would you consider his "contribution" passively as acceptable expressions of art? i'd imagine that it may be fair to say, you might've been pretty disappointed if JK would've allowed that. thanks for bringing up the convo✌🤟💜
There's nothing wrong with Jungkook's lyrics besides being subpar. Jack Harlow's lyrics, on the other hand, are horrendous. ABG? Seriously?? Disgusting.🤦🏽
@@MBella123 You seem to misunderstand & have it backwards, my dear. One is not necessary for the other, but in this case, JH's rap IS, IN FACT, misoginistic. ESPECIALLY towards Asian women.
Who at BigHit, or should I say HYBE, is giving the ok to Jack Harlow's filthy mind and mouth. I see scooter braun's sick mind all over this. What is BigHit trying to make Jungkook into? Jungkook's part is basically good, especially the bridge. Is he in training to be a nasty, western, pop star? BTS solos - RM wrote & sang and rapped introspection, philosophical. Jin had tuna and Coldplay. Suga wrote and rapped about haters and rough times, getting through it. J-hope wrote and rapped about how important music and dance is to him. Jimin sang about being free from insecurities. V sang about love and longing. Jungkook, so far, it's just about SEX. Why is Jungkook being used like this. From what I've seen of his BTS personality, explicit sex songs aren't his thing. He's being used. All who are into KPop are aware of how companies manage their groups/ members. HYBE is not BigHit. There are other voices in play now. Jungkook, in interviews, says the right things - I selected the song, the addition of Jack Harlow made the song better, etc. He has to say those things, he's not going to slam his efforts. Remember, Jungkook is a professional and has been doing what he is told since he was 15. He knows he has to do what he has to do. Jungkook didn't write any of the lyrics, he selected the song. However, I don't believe HE actually did, I personally believe the HYBE amalgamation did. Yes, Jungkook is a grown man but from what we are aware of from his public stage persona he would not be comfortable choosing Seven and 3D, he was assigned them in order to be more popular with Western audiences. In my opinion, those that believe Jungkook would be drawn to sexually explicit songs just because he is 26 are naive. Look at the songs Jungkook actually had a hand in writing, under BigHit (not HYBE) and as an adult. Don't just go along with loving all things BTS just because they are BTS. Seven and 3D are mostly enjoyable songs but are throwaway songs. JUNGKOOK IS BEING USED! I am defending Jungkook hard because he is better than what they are giving him to sing. He deserves better than throwaway crap. If his songs continue in this vein, people will recall his solo career was just SEX, they won't remember his genuine talent. Jose - explain away the line "I got you playing with yourself on camera". Harlow's rap was pointless to the song. In my opinion Harlow's lyrics weren't misogynistic, they were disgusting and idiotic. I also don't believe sexually explicit songs are a genre. So, when you refer to Jungkook mentioning he wants to explore musically different genres (i.e. Blues, Country, KPop, Opera, Reggae, Jazz, Pop, etc), I don't think sexually explicit songs were what he was referring or had in mind. But, like you said, everyone sees things different and have their own opinions. What I have written is my opinion.
Sry dude, your read doesn’t hold as much weight because you are a guy and have never been called a thot or ho. Also you are dismissing people’s genuine offense at ABG. JK at least has innuendo in the lyrics he selected, but JH is a mess. The great thing is we have an alt version and Jk’s voice ascends on it. I have no problem with sexual lyrics but the reason I stopped listening to American hip hop is it was always about sex, women as hoes, money, and drug. JH hit 3 of the 4, it’s just not my vibe. I like music that’s more complex, which is what we get from the fantastic writers in BTS. Jungkook’s last two songs have been very sexual and that’s awesome to help him break free of the baby identity, but I really hope his next songs have more substance and don’t fall into the traps of American music. He’s so much better than that.
To be honest I switched off your video off half way through because of the route you were taking. However I gave you the benefit of the doubt. There is a difference between him 'being an adult' and talking about sex and the song being misogynistic. As a man you will never fully understand the female disappointment with 'ABG's' and '1,2,3,4 and whoring'. The dictionary definition of a 'whore' is a 'female prostitute' so case said that's why many are not happy with the collab. JK can be as adult and grown up as he likes, and sex is a healthy part of being an adult but that also includes being respectful with lyrics. There is just no need for it. Take out Jack Harlow and everything is good many state. Peace out.
Of course we’ll say its GREAT. There is never, according to Army, any area where the guys can improve. May I remind you Namjoon HAD TO APOLOGIZE and got mentored on women’s matters for misogyny accusations and he recognized it and improved. Recognizing and acknowledging and correcting is greatness. You ARMY are succumbing to cult-like behavior. We’ll never be of help to the guys if we are “yes-sr”. There is NO growth there in fact there is only a repetition of the same sad story in the entertainment business. The song is catchy and enjoyable HOWEVER I thought it was misogynistic. Those two can co-exist.
God forbid u say the obvious🙄 it's so ridiculous how far army are willing to go,even to the point of absolutely degrading other ppl, for being rightfully concerned!! Armys(most) are now bcming a mockery bc of how downbad they r...tbh, it just feels like nowadays,it's all about sexualizing and thirsting over the members... nothing wrong w that...but r we really fans if that's all we care Abt..and not voicing our honest opinions??smh
@@min3Allmin3 Exactly my thoughts! Other fandoms make fun of Army cause they literally worship anything and everything that the boys do. THAT'S NOT HOW IT SHOULD BE. We should call out things that are problematic, and this certainly is. I felt very humiliated and ashamed as a woman because of Harlow's verse, and it made me really sad that JK went along with it. I also feel sad that when I expressed my concern and said that I am uncomfortable, others came at me saying that I'm a ,,hater". I feel so isolated and alone because of this.
What I find funny? Ironic? Hypocritical?, is most Armys go hard at the Andrew Tate's of the world, but find this song "the bomb" "the best" "fire " "jk isn't a baby anymore", when the song is filled with lyrics like 1 girl is too boring so JH has to keep adding the girls to satisfy him, showing his girls body off to all the homies , having her video taping herself for him. Alllllllll because JK is on the song. Ha, I guess it's not the message people have a problem with, just if it's a certain messenger
Btw, when we talk about hate against women, it doesn’t mean only saying explicit things. There are many ways of being misogynistic so please, if you’re gonna talk about something you’re not familiar with, do some research, don’t only take the meaning of the word and try to tell others how they should feel. We live in a patriarchal society that hates women, once you learn about the layers of misogyny and sexism, you understand the it’s much bigger of a deal than what you imagined
You decided to defend Jack Harlow’s lyrics after the quickest google search that did not explain the scope of misogyny. I have no problem with sexual content and do not expect Jung Kook to behave as a child. I remember what’s tasty in Busan. 😂 I believe we should be allowed to respectfully speak out when we don’t think something is right without being attacked or told we don’t support them. As much as I enjoyed joking about being in a cult during the Fake Love era, I will not just blindly fall in line. I love every member of BTS and will continue to do so.
I wasn't LOOKING for fault. I know JH by face/name/achievements only so I was expecting good/big things. But that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to disapprove of something I heard lest I lose my ARMY card. I'm not about blind devotion. I'm about being a conscientious consumer. Now, just because I've engaged in conversations about it, don't mistake my feelings as "outrage." Tbh, I'm more disappointed in non-Asian ARMYs dismissing another's pov just because it's not 100% glowing approval for our faves. That's actually making more upset than the lyrics itself did.
Am actually clocked off of Twitter and TikTok bc of this!! It's so embarrassing that even army's are now praising JH..saying he ATE...ate what omg??😭 the d*ckriding (sorry couldn't think of a better word) is so REAL😒
I am conflicted. I am ARMY and OT7. Are we meant to blindly follow and support if it goes against our beliefs. Everyone is free to have an opinion. Jack Harlows lyrics are misogynistic and objectifies women. Unnecessary in this song. JK has never come across as such and doubt he is like this. In his pursuit of being 'grown', him or Hybe are not making the right choices. He is a worldwide star and that carries great responsibility. People look up to him and want to emulate him. BTS has always displayed the Korean culture , showed respect, inclusion and fairness. People that have a different opinion are not haters. I will listen to the alternative version. Wishing JK the best 💜
If you’re going to have an opinion, hold them both accountable. JK’s lyrics are just as objectifying as Jack’s. That being said, it’s your choice to be offended but let the rest of us enjoy it without being a prude Karen.
I'm not angry at JK for the song. Nor am I going to make excuses for him. Jack Harlow's lines were cringy and lame. There was no finesse. The lyrics weren't misogynistic but definitely objectified women. It wasn't a good call to have those lines on there. JK gave his stamp of approval on those lyrics and I hope people don't try to excuse his adult decision to keep them. He made a bad call, IMO. Fans have a right to dislike the song. But just because I don't like the song and will not be playing the song again does not mean I do not support Jungkook. I'll continue to support him as an artist. I'm not always going to enjoy every song he releases.
I dont mind JK’s part, it’s a bop. But Harlow’s? Im sorry, it’s just cringe. No beat, the rap is mediocre and the lyrics too. That’s why i prefer the ALT version. Harlow is certainly not misogynistic, but as a woman who grew up in the capital of reguetón, the rap is just bad and cringe 💀 But kookie? He can keep doing what he’s doing. Just wish he would lower the features. But gotta respect his decisions in the end.
I love JK, but this song was way more basic than what the BTS universe has gotten us spoiled to having. Also, Jack Harlow was totally unnecessary. Not only was his rap embarrassing, when there are tons of other rappers that could have added to this track. Jack’s ending was weird. Why was Jack the last voice? We heard Jack’s weak rap as the ending of the song . JK should have ended his own song. Hopefully there is a no rap version that can come out.
I think we can agree to disagree on this one Jose, and it's ok! Ok, so this is going to be a long one: Is JK a grown man who can sing about whatever he wants? Yes, he absolutely is! Do I like JH's rap in this song? No, I really do find it objectifying to women, and I'm sick and tired of that, in any kind of media. And for those asking in the comments "why nobody says anything when other artists do it?", sorry but you don't know about everyone's individual experience with music or life journey. Personally I don't listen and will never listen to latin music (reggaeton for instance) that does exactly that, objectify and degrade women. One of the million reasons I became an ARMY is because I found a different kind of content in their music, that diverted from the content that constantly surrounds me. BTS are socially conscious, never afraid to comment on injustice and the struggles of youth. All this being said... I love JK, with all my heart. I will forever be grateful to him and the members of BTS for everything they do for us, their love, their passion and hard work! Does my opinion on 3D means I'm not going to support JK anymore? OF COURSE NOT, I will never, ever stop supporting him. It's just that this specific song is not my cup of tea, that's it. And me and every ARMY out there has every right to express ourselves. Instead of acting like fanatics trying to bash every opinion we disagree with, we can open important discussions and speak ourselves (Joonie, I learned well) like adults that we (a lot of us) are. Does my opinion on 3D changes that you reading this like this song and will fully support it and support JK till the end of time? Absolutely not! You do you! And I respect you and love you as a fellow ARMY for it. I'm just sick and tired of expressing an opinion only to encounter a not so big, but loud side of ARMY trying to bash everyone else in social media they don't agree with. It happened to a lot of us when we said that WAB the eternal and Yet to come felt somewhat of "goodbye-for-now-songs" and it's happening now. Just live and let live, people!
I feel Exactly the same. - very well said! Love JK endlessly and I actually love the song - it’s hot ! Except for the rap for exactly the same reasons. I don’t like it in the American music world and I don’t like it mixing with JK’s sexy as hell song. And my feelings about that are deeply connected with why I am ARMY in the first place. I think you and I understand something that may be some other people don’t so I just want to say that I see you.
I AM WITH YOU IN THIS NOT MY FAVOR SONG OF JK AND I ABSOLUTLY DISLAKE THE RAP PART BUT BTS ARE MY ONLY FAVORITE GROUP AND I LOVE JK THIS SONG WONT STOP ME FOR SUPPORT HIM
Misogynistic. I’m not wrong and don’t tell us we have it wrong. I have no problem with JK or him singing sexual lyrics. The music itself is good. Having especially Jack Harlow objectifying females in the lyrics/mv is not okay. I’m not blaming Jungkook. He is a man. And so is Jack Harlow. Yet there’s nothing wrong with cringing at this new song.. Seven was a song and mv with A WOMAN. Not with many women, as in the new mv and lyrics and calling the multiples as if objects. Not okay. Quit telling us we are wrong and don’t understand. I don’t think most males would understand. My opinion. Just like you have yours.
Black female armys are trynna tell y'all so are the black owned jack Harlow fb accounts who are breaking down his lyrics THEY ARE NOT MISOGYNISTIC get a grip woman
Let’s not forget JK is not that bunny anymore. He’s 26 years old and he said he wanted to try all genres of music that will fit his voice so I’m all for it. I’m 68 y o Army here to support him whatever ever he chooses he’s a grown ass man. This is nothing compared to lyrics of western artists. Thank you for the time explaining it. You’re a one true army that I followed. You made me happy every time you reacted to JK because he’s my bias. Let’s support him for the album that’s coming soon. 💜💜💜
I think JK didn't need another artist featured on this song because he sounded so good and his lyrics were nothing vulgar. I loved the sound and style of this song, but I was turned off by JH's part only. JK did his part with style and I support JK. I was not a fan of JH part. I prefer the alternate version of JK only.
Jungkook is going through his Disney kid rebellion phase. Let the man live! It’s a hot song. Giving this slightly older woman Justin Timberlake vibes. I’m into it! 💜💜💜
Also… I have a 7yr old son who LOVES Jungkook. i took him to GMA, to Global Citizens. I don’t let him listen to the explicit versions. It’s actually that simple 🤷🏻♀️ I grew up listing to Madonna and I think I turned out ok. 😝 and Jk knows EVERYTHING. To think anything else is just silly and ignorant. Rant over. 💜💜💜
I was thinking the exact same thing! Started with the tats and piercings. Now he's smoking and singing about sex. He's a little late bloomer with his maturity and now he's trying to make up for lost time and getting it out of his system. I hope he's getting it in and isn't just singing about it. He'll settle down in his 30's which I think was always his plan. Whatever it is, I'm here for it!
I m really glad there r matured and sensible armies too who understands what and who he is and enjoy the song as it is rather than making a big deal out of it. I
BTS practically got cancelled for 'War of Hormones' it is so mild in relation to this song 3D. You should research more about some of the terms in the rap part. ABS is Asian Baby Girl but apparently it is a derogatory term of calling Asian girls sluts & most Asian girls say they do not like being called this. It seems to be the the Asian equivalent of the N-word for black people. There is another term used at the end of the song "Thots" which means "That hoe over there". Also the way he's lining the girls up in the video looked like a cattle call for the privilege of their having sex with him it looked degrading to me. Kind of humilliating there waiting for their turn like a pro. or something. Of course next you will say Jungkook didn't sing those words etc... No but it's his song & he allowed those words & visual images into his video therefore he's as much responsible as the one singing the rap. Some get away with murder in this fandom they smoke, drink excessively, have a misogynistic song etc...nothing happens excuses are made all round. Any other member just for breathing gets cancelled. Geez double standards, much. I guess RM's promise after WOH didn't extend to solo work. Well I guess everyone will just block all that 💩 out & just keep streaming. MUST get that record MUST get thst sucker to Number ONE no matter what!!!🫤 Vamos HDP!!! don't stop till we get to the top, right?? Forget principles they don’t apply here. Well good luck with that you'all. BTW love the OT1 content on the channel keep it up.👎
Jose I've enjoyed and appreciated your channel for years. Usually when there's some kind of drama I can expect you to be a voice of reason. But in this case I don't feel the same as you. I love JK and want to support him and I enjoy his parts of the song. JK is absolutely an adult and can talk about sex, that's not the issue for me at least. As many have said, the issue a lot of people have isn't with his parts but with JH's rap. The lyrics and the MV at those parts made me sick to my stomach and absolutely were demeaning to women. I've seen a lot of people ignoring/glossing over that. And I've seen a lot of people being attacked for speaking up about this, it's just been really disappointing.
Jungkook has been my musical inspiration for a while. But after seeing Seven and 3D, I don't know what he is trying to prove about himself. To prove himself as an adult, it's not necessary to sing sexual and vulgar songs. Seven was vulgar but not way too much like 3D. He is exceptionally gifted as a singer, but I guess he is more focused to fit in current American music trend and top the charts. Though I believe he can still top the charts without vulgar songs. I felt dissappointed as a fan after listening to 3D. He may look cool to the younger generation but this type of music can't be his standard. I hope he realizes it and do more meaningful and deep music in the future.
How is this song or 7 vulgar? If that's the case, you shouldn't listen to 90% of the songs out there. Especially Western pop and you definitely can't listen to a single Hip Hop track if what JungKood said in Seven (especially the original version) or 3D is supposedly "vulgar," to you.
Thank you Jose you took the right words out of my mouth! BTS are grown men let them be and let them make their choices in life and music. Jose keep up the good work, bora hae
I agree with Jose in every point except one: Jack Harlow's lyrics ARE misogynistic, especially in the context of the way they are performed, and not just the words on the page. As a woman with some experience of the world, the vibes do not check out. Jose, you are correct. Jungkook is a grown man. So he should be held accountable for releasing this song, with his name on it, as is. This is not a Jack Harlow song featuring JK, it's a Jungkook song featuring Harlow. Jungkook's silence on this has been deafening. I don't want to believe that he agrees with Jack's verse, especially since his part is so fun and playful and respectful (everything that we would expect from JK). Did he agree to this? Is this a publicity stunt?
Again You spoke my heart out Jose!! Purple you! I was so sad that people were commenting negatively about the song! Thank you so much Jose for pointing out everything positively 💜
I think the song will be more popular than seven. It really accents his voice range and quality and his awesome dance skills! The song beat and chorus is one of those you wanna to vibe with. I’m 77 and love BTS as well as rock, soul, etc. I don’t see anything suggestive in Jungkook’s lyrics, but JH does have some words in his rap that are explicit. Not as much as seven, though. Hopefully people will listen to the clean version if they are offended by the explicit one. I believe the video is well done, and ai do like the song.
@@2tbos who cares about explicit words, after seven I’m desensitized - but it’s the context and visuals and whatever creepy stuff the rap as about not JK’s part or a curse word.
@Malihashorma7156....Ehhhh, don't mind these perpetual whiners. Most aren't even BTS fans, they're other fandoms looking for the smallest of non issues to raise their ugly heads in judgmental hate. These are the typical haters/losers looking for an excuse. If JKs 3D is Mysoginistic then they should be on just about every Western artists backs calling them out for lyrics far more Mysoginistic and Misandry (objectifying and hating men). But as soon as an Asian man is seen with a few women in a sensual manner these same discriminating hypocrites who loudly applaud people like Sam Smith, Eminem, Bruno Mars, Taylor Swift (listen to Blank Space), etc attack JungKook. Lol at the hypocrisy of these ridiculous prejudiced people.
@@2tbosLady, champagne confetti means female ejaculation 😂 How is there anything explicit in the song?! Personally, I don’t understand JK desire to sing these juvenile songs. He isn’t a teenager anymore.
While I see where you're going with this he's also a grown man, he seems to want to show that he's not innocent and a grown up so fans can stop babying him..he's also playing into the western market in which artists are more sexually open and it sells and gets promoted more.
Jungkook's lyrics are pushing the boundaries a bit - BUT it just makes the song super sexy! I didn't like Jack Harlow's part... His lyrics and having those women all lined up -- I didn't like it. And that's my personal opinion. I like Jack Harlow... usually. I've seen some ARMY get super jumped on & called "haters" if someone doesn't agree with their own opinion. This is NOT what BTS would want from ARMY...
@@kaylalezine2295firstly, what's wrong with being innocent? And second, you don't have to show vulgarity to show you're grown up. Is abusing, throwing f bombs, collaborating with misogynistic and racist artists maturity? Objectifying women maturity? Is smoking cigarettes to harm his own health + others health maturity?? Maturity is when you realise these things actually make you mentally immature not mature.
@ADITYASHARMA-im2qo firstly, jack isn't racist firstly of you're gonna go on the abg rant an Asian girl literally posted a video of her teaching him what it meant way before 3D came out. Also the verse isn't misogynistic in itself he's literally saying he used to be a man whore and now he's obsessed with one girl and only wants her. Secondly Jungkook has stated hundreds of times he is a grown up he's tired of the innocent image and babying he gets from most non western fans. He's expressed it so many times he started off just drinking and cussing on live. People continued to infantilize him. If he wants to go on a sexual journey and write music about it that's fine.
@ADITYASHARMA-im2qo also you proved my point in your comment. You're parasocial. That grown man no matter if it's detrimental to his health or not can make that decision on his own. Not because a bunch of people who don't personally know him pressure him into acting an image. Why do you think dude needs a stress release substance? He hasn't been allowed to live a normal life for most of his life this is his way of reclaiming his image and life outside of the kpop world where everything even looking at a female idol now is taboo.
Though still you have to respect other fans opinions too. They became Army first off because of BTS clean lyrics. JK might go this direction but dont expect other armys to just accept and embrace what he is singing and doing. I know ill have hate comments but we need to be tolerant and accepting each others opinions.
I am 71 years old and with all due respect, I think that no matter how old someone is “words matter” and I totally don’t like cursing or naughty words, but I do respect people’s opinions and chooses and I’ll leave it at that.
I wouldn't use the word misogynist but there was objectification and sugar daddyness in harlow's lyrics. I am a Jungkook fan. I am streaming 3D on YT and Spotify since its release. I am proud of Jungkook for breaking out of the baby-of-the-group image. 3D is an awesome song and Jungkook's vocals shine even more than Seven, especially in the post-chorus part of the song. Jungkook dance is confident and vocals chef's kiss 🤌. I am also glad to see JK collab and experiment with artists outside his usual circle. I am grown up (& older than JK) so I found his sexual innuendos to be clever. I enjoyed that. I do not have a problem with either JK or even harlow talking about sex. But there are phrases in harlow's part that are lame, desperate and also change the context of the song. There is objectification and sugar daddy vibes. 1) "When I seen that body you would think it was a dead body. The way I told my boys come look" this paints an uncomfortable context of someone lifeless and harlow telling his boys to come look. 2) "I used to take girls up to Stony Brook And steal they hearts like some crook" some bragging vibes about stealing hearts. Again I wish harlow talked about sex only. Rather than painting contexts that make him look bad. Steal they hearts like some crook. He thinks he is sounding cool doing it, but no. This is an old cliche of treating people like objects and playing with them. 3) The whole "one girl, two girl..." part is where harlow sinks the song. harlow can talk about sex all he wants but his contexts are a huge problem. And in this part Drew Kirsch did not help his case. He literally showed girls stacking behind harlow like objects on a shelf. All the girls in this rap part of harlow looked like lifeless girls who existed like objects standing in a line. 4) "I got you playing with yourself on camera" and "I just wanna meet you in the physical and see if you would touch me". These lyrics are simply so lame. They sound like written by a desperate person online rather than a professional songwriter. 5) "And as for thots". Thots is the new slang for sluts. It is used in an offensive way. Other than these, the whole ABGs line as well. Like there are enough problems with harlow's lyrics and he does disturb the vibe of the song that Jungkook had so beautifully created. Jungkook's parts were talking about sex but were not painting weird contexts. harlow did that bringing objectification, desperation and sugar daddyness in the song. I am glad Jungkook/Hybe were sensible enough to have an alternate version completely erasing harlow. The alt version is not changing a few words but literally just rid of the root of the problem (i.e. harlow). I am proud of JK/Hybe for making that decision. I think with time, the alt version will get more plays. Thankfully dance practice video has that too, so any live performances should as well. Jungkook you are doing amazing! Keep slaying with your vocals and dance moves! 🫶
Jose, I understand what you are saying about his age, I accept all that, but the rap lyrics are offensive. Once again the American music industry takes a beautiful person, voice, character, and makes them sell sex. JK is sexy, he doesn't need this or he would've written it himself. He can do what he wants but I'm sure when he heard it there were no rap lines. Let's not forget how they had their lyrics read by a female professor to not offend women or degrade them - so when did that change even if he is grownup. I was ill from the rap lyrics. I love JK - nothing has changed there, but why does he have to fit hollywood the most evil entity or what the music industry here is trying to do. I hope he will guard his heart and not follow the CLONES , but be a different pop musician with caring values for himself and sharing thoughts in his written music. JK does not have to sell himself so hard with these kind of lyrics, even he couldn't say them but had someone else rap lines. Also, I wish they wouldn't do so many collabs... don't they know how powerful they are individually? Taehyung does! Thanks for being kind. I am just stunned, I expected grown up topics of interest but this is... ugh! Out of luck on this one.
I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who found Jack's lyrics so corny, especially towards the end... Look, he's not the worst rapper, but his verse was not his best at all, and his "ABG" line was straight up derogatory...
my personal opinion, I don’t like the lyrics Harlow sings. They are misogynistic. Period. I don’t like Cardi B or her WAP. It is vulgar. But this is the “art” they are pushing right now and I can see JK getting wrapped up in it and wanting to express himself. I’m disappointed in his choices. You’d never catch Jin singing a song like this. He is too classy. Since my rule is that if I can’t play a song in front of my teen girls then I won’t buy it then I’ll have to pass. This will be the only member song I don’t have in my collection.
Agreed. I love BTS, but... I am not going to like every single song that members of BTS put out. I will like a song because it's creative, has a great melody, is catchy, is deep, etc. I will never like a song just because of who is singing it. I didn't like 'Seven', & I don't like '3D'. To each their own!
You have a very limited understanding of the meaning of “misogyny” I’m glad for you that a young man speaking about his womanising bad habits, and asking to have casual sex with consent, it is what you understand as misogyny. What beautiful candied world you live in.
@@delasmercedes2940the rap took away from the fun sexy vibe of JK and his lyrics. It’s like “ weee yay JK IS SO HOT, oooh sexy dance and lyrics… yummy” then BAM down to the gutter we go with talking about showing your friends I’m not sure what but he said something about a dead body then was ticking off all the women he gets and maybe said something about ABGs which I had to look up and thought should we be talking about these misguided young Asian women, etc etc It just creeped me out. I just want to see sexy JK dancing and singing so beautifully about lovely sex.
I enjoyed the song but I must admit I did not like the rap, that is probably because it’s not my taste so I will get the alternative version. I have never been a huge rap fan but love BTS rap songs because they have great meanings and messages and musicality. I personally do not like the direction of the explicitness that some music is going because it excludes a huge amount of audience or should do. Personally (it’s just my opinion everyone’s entitled to their own) the world would be a better place if our youth was not exposed to all this explicit language and content at such a young age, but it’s played on the radio and on music shows and lauded and awarded so what chance to they have. They do not have a chance to grow up like they should as they are thrown into adulthood to early. At least Jungkook has the sense to bring out two versions so parents can at least allow them the other version. I think one of the reasons BTS has had great popularity is because they chose not to go down this path, but if Jung kook has chosen to do so, that is his choice but I hope his album has a little more variety expressing the brilliance of his singing.
JH lyrics were misogynistic for me. I did like the 2000's vibes of the song. As an Asian person the reference of ABG...was cringe. The song, the beat was good...but I just I wasn't into the rap. Because we are Army doesn't mean we have to like everything they put out.. This is not a cult. Lol. Some Army will tell you are not Army for not loving everything and buying everything! 😮 if it's not you cup of tea. It's ok. Life goes on. I still love BTS. Music also opens up discussion. Awesome explanation video Jose!!
I am very much OT7 and support each and every member. I'm streaming Seven and 3D and buying anything JK has to offer. But . . . and this is very much a matter of personal taste - I really didn't much care for Seven, although it's somewhat of a bop, and I really didn't like 3D. Both songs are very generic American pop, nothing much special there, and I really didn't care for either Latto's or Jack's rap - not because of the sex or purported misogyny, but just because I didn't think the raps were very good. BTW, I don't think this has anything to do with Hybe/BH - I think these songs completely reflect JK's personal choices and freedom to do what he wants as a soloist. I had expected a lot more from JK but perhaps this is exactly what he wants to do - in which case more power to him. I just don't think either song is very strong, nor that either song displays his unique power and skills.
I do think he can shine much brighter than this,but will support him.I'm playing the alternative version because I find Jack's lone objectifying and misogynistic.
It’s what JK said on his interview. He is challenge himself with different music genres. What he can do with voice so he will experience here and there. Some will like his song and some might don’t but it’s total ok. As long as he willing to try, I’m here to support him.
Wow! I'm disappointed that you support jack-ass jack and his misogynistic rap....Do not get me wrong! I love this new sexy JK and his talk of fucking 7 days a week! As an Asian American, I need someone like JK to represent ME!!! JK in chapter 2 is hardcore, strong, and sexual! I NEED this hardcore JK because the media always portray us as weak, nerds, punchline or the butt of the joke! Please understand the different in JK lyrics vs jack's rap!!!!!!
Hi My only problem with the song is the phrase that jack harlows use in "All my ABGs get cute for me" He is talking about Asian Baby girls and right after put a cute in the same phrase, like as an yellow person I know how people have fetishist with the aegyeo that the girls do in anime or even in real life, and when I heard that part I felt like listening to someone with a fetishist in this kind of thing in an Asian girl, and I felt strange about it (and mad)! And the MV doesn't have any Asian girl, and the way that he is showing the girls in MV it looks like they are an object like wtf???? Anyway I still have the stream on (no listening to the song but it's on) and the only thing that make me fell a little bit sad with jungkook was to let jack put this part in the song (that was totally unnecessary) The problem wasn't to talk about sex in the song, seven was about it but in a total different way, he doesn't need to make an alternative version for that for a reason... Anyway I felt really frustrated to fell that way in a song of Asian person, that my only problem, the abbreviation and the cute for me in the same phrase
Thanks for the conversation, think Harlow's rap lyrics/assessment generally speaking of a man's woman getting skills is overblown. It is dismissive of a woman's ability to see that man's flaws-inflated ego and remove themselves from his orbit. Don't know why JungKook would involve himself with Harlow's lyrics. Not sexy, but, small minded. Sad that an artist has to diminish women to make himself feel musically viable. The women in the white t-shirts are being promoted as lacking power, the Harlow character has it all.
I think the problem was Jack Harlow. JK was consistent in 7 and in 3D, always respectful and intimate. Like, he wants to get to it but in a very good natured way. Jack on the other hand, man, wtf dude. Just wtf. I was kinda exited because JK is leaning heavily into the boyfriend material bad boi soft boi aesthetic and Jack is the American boyfriend right now. So I thought it was brilliant, really a good move. JK was like "my love is deeper than the ocean" "if you ready and if you let me" . The man's committed. And Jack was like, you not enough baby I'll have 3 other more on the side. And I just don't like that vibe
I wonder are Tayor Swift, Madonna, Niki Minaj, Ariana Grande, Cardi B, etc etc, always "respectful" of men in their lyrics? Come on people let's stop the hypocrisy.
I notice that he didn't talk about the part of Jack Harlow's lyrics where he compares seeing a particular woman naked to the trauma of someone seeing a dead body as if seeing this woman naked had traumatized him. Maybe, he omitted talking about this part of the lyrics because I don't know how anyone can justify that line in Jack's lyrics.
I totally support JK and his adventures in music. All the boys have done amazing solo work. I'm just having to adjust to the fact that I can't play a lot of their new music in my car any more when I pick up my granddaughters from school! 💜💜💜💜💜💜💜
@@ATLG1RL727I completely understand and agree with you. BTS aren’t boys anymore. But maybe SiennaFlower was using that term because she’s older than them.
I know you’re desperately trying to defend the collab but it’s pretty undefendable. It’s a choice his management has made for him because it makes JK’s reach much wider in the US - that’s why they chose Latto too! In his defence, I don’t think JK’s made these choices on his own. HYBE US have decided that JK of all the BTS group has the potential to become huge in the US market and that’s fine. His fans think he could have done this on his own without the collabs but his management (SB and Co) know the industry inside out and they are promoting this profile of him with a vengeance. So, good luck to him. I prefer the music without the collaborations but the US market is what it is and it’s pretty much hard core these days so if you want to jump into it, that’s probably what you have to do. I would expect more of the same with the album theme. Many of his fans will still be quite young, I guess, and they may not fully understand the lyrics but I’m sure JK does. They’ve started down that road so why would they tone it down now. It will be huge I’m sure but not for my taste sadly…
The fact that the world at large has become so immune to songs that objectify women should be concerning in and of itself. Most of us became Army / K-pop fans because it was something vastly different to the general trashy stuff that's put out. Now we see that Bts are being sucked into this world, and not all members are able to resist it. I am still gonna support Jungkook and his endeavors, but it's obvious that he hasn't found his music color/identity yet. He's imitating the pop sound that's been used for decades, and only putting his voice onto it. If he wants to do it like this, then I can't stop him, but it doesn't mean that I enjoy literally everything he does. I am not gonna let myself be gaslighted or guilt-tripped, because I have my own preferences, and Jk's music so far doesn't fit them. Simple as that. I didn't like Seven, & I don't like 3D mainly because of the random, unknown ,,artists" that chase clout by leeching off of Jk. I just hope this trend doesn't last too long, and our maknae will show us sth that's uniquely him. Peace and love, APOBANGPO. 💜
I am glad Jungkook is doing his thing and expressing himself as he wants to. I love all the guys and I’ll continue supporting them. The direction that Jungkook is taking is obviously one that he wants and some armies will like it and some won’t. I’m not a fan of Jack Harlow and this song doesn’t really hit me in a positive way, but that’s my opinion.
I think it's important to not just automatically dismiss the voice of women when we sense misogyny or feel objectified and bring it up. Specially when young women are a huge part of the BTS fandom. This isn't really against JK, we are all fans of JK. Just because we don’t agree with everything he or BTS puts out there, doesn’t mean we are haters, or that we are wrong. We are allowed to be disappointed by any form of art that is put out there. And every piece of work that is put out there is subject to the opinion of those who consume it. Shouldn’t this be a good teaching moment for young girls? It is also dangerous to just imply that it’s the sexuality of the song that some of us are against. This plays to the anti femist rhetoric of if you don’t ascribe to sex under the norms of the patriarchy then you must be anti sex. Sex is great. God bless sex! It’s part of being human. The lyrics of the main song sung by JK actually may be not offensive, it even mentions/implies consent. The contention I think is Jack Harlow’s parts. Yes, this also on brand from Jack’s other works, that shouldn’t also automatically be dismissed. There are some offensive works of art out there that can be deemed “good,” or at least worthy of a discussion. But just shooting it down, specially that you don’t seem to be a woman or identify as such (correct me if I’m wrong with this, I admit that I know very little of you personally) is just wrong. This feels a little like gaslighting. As a person from the LGBTQIA+ community, I was expecting you to be more empathetic and open to the views of women and those who identify as women. I understand that it's probably your job to only say good things about BTS, but maybe tow the line somewhere. Generate a discussion. Don't just dismiss.
I really dont care ppl not liking the song, JK is matured now 26 yo and I accept his judgement about his music. Love him for being himself and happy on his accomplishments period!
I am not bothered at ALL that it is sexual or explicit. I am 😢 that after all the growth and study that Namjoon went through to respect and lift up women, JK puts this into the world. It’s nothing but immature, careless, and thoughtless. 💔 Please consider this perspective, Jose. I hope you are open to changing your mind.
Namjoon isn’t perfect either 😅 He’s very woke and anti-religious but also talked about every ethnicity of girl before in his own songs, not different than what happened in 3D.
Give us a break, people. Jungkook is a performer, and he does it very well. Let's not confuse what he is in this. As for the younger armies, let the parents worry about that. Jungkook is a kind, considerate, and gentleman as always. Let's keep this in mind and remember that he is a grown-up sexy man who is a very talented.
It’s unrealistic to think that as a consumer of music one will like and/or love everything an artist releases. No different than everyone doesn’t like every type of food. Personal choices are just that “personal” choices.
HI Jose, I agree JK is a grown man and can sing any song that he wants. I get that. It doesn't bother me if the songs are more sexualised than we are used to from him. I am a 52 year old Army and am unfazed by that sort of thing. I really wanted to like both Seven and 3D. They are ok but haven't really blown me away. It does not mean that I will not continue to support JK or his music.
Okay. We are all not going to agree, but we should LISTEN to why people feel offended. We all have our own stories. Jose, are you telling women should feel a certain way? If a women found some of the imagery or words offensive we shouldn’t have to explain ourselves. Especially to a man. There is room for healthy discourse and army isn’t a monolith.
I’m not telling women to feel a certain way. You don’t have to explain yourself to me either. I’m simply explaining why the rap part is not misogynistic. I can’t change your mind nor do I want to. Words carry weight and labeling it as such is wrong in my opinion. But if people dislike it, that’s also fine. I’m only explaining my point of view.
@@JoseOchoaTVhowever you do not have the lived experience of a woman. We live in a world designed by and for men. We have our stories to tell. Don't dismiss our feelings of disgust and discomfort by simply erasing our voices. Just because misogyny is normalized doesn't make it alright. And as you said words carry meaning and so do jack's lyrics.
@@JoseOchoaTVYou don’t have the right to tell women what is misogyny or not, Jose. Like I don’t have the right to tell you what is homophobia being a straight woman myself. I can’t speak on something I don’t live. I can use my voice to support the LGBQIAP+ community but NEVER to speak on their behalf since I’m straight
Ok guys I think this debate is getting a little out of hand. Listen I don’t like the rap lyrics either as a woman, but why are we all taking it out on Jose? He didn’t write the song. All he did was post a reaction to a music video which he always does and comments blew up on the original post and he made this video to share his feelings and to try and help. It’s his opinion and that’s ok. Just like my opinion is ok and so is yours. We all matter and count. But arguing with Jose on this is not right. I do not think Jose is trying to insult women with this video at all. We are all ARMY and we shouldn’t be acting this way towards each other.
Not to be controversial, it's not that I have a problem with these type of songs (7 and 3D)..it's just so superficial. One thing I loved about BTS was their raw/relatable Lyrics. BTS was talking about real life that anybody of all ages could relate.. instead of "sex, drugs, alcohol ". Even though the sound would be POP or electric, they still said something more meaningful. Even in their past solos "winter bear" , "Promise" . I wanted to see diff sounds from the boys, but not really interested in this "sex, drugs, and alcohol" songs.
I think that’s the point, though. This isn’t BTS . It’s not supposed to look or feel like a BTS song. What would be the purpose of solo work and individual artistic growth if it looked the same as what they’ve done as a group.? This is Jeon Jungkook the solo artist and what he has done / is doing is good and shouldn’t be compared to what BTS has done.
@angiemitchell8059 although I agree, however I was meaning that what I LIKED about BTS was they were not like any other group who just made superficial/meaningless music. Their music had messages and substance. The other solo projects like jhope for example had a completely different sound than BTS but most of the songs still had substance.
Dislike? Ok. But labeling it something it’s not, is wrong.
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I really hoped you would talk about this. I have mixed feelings about Jack Harlow's verses. I love Jungkook's lyrics. I love sexy and sexual lyrics. I have no problem with them. Jack Harlow's lyrics about the girl's body looking like a dead body and saying that he took his friends to see bothered me. Disrespectful to women. Love the rest of the song .
@@SehriJeon He did not compare a woman's body to a dead body, you misinterpreted that line. "When I seen that body, you would think it was a dead body The way I told my boys, "Come look" means that her body was so shocking, it grabbed his attention. That's it.
Hi Jose! I really like ur videos becoz all the news channels I have seen till now only give lies and 3rd class news about BTS so that their videos can get views.
And still some channels are talking nonsense that Jungkook launched his song to reduce the rating of Taehyung's album or mv etc and we only support Taehyung.
Plz I request u make a video on this topic and get a hard slap of cheep fake Armies
@doodle_bug nah it doesn't mean any of that it means that after fcking her so hard she can't move lol (no hate)
Preach, José. 💯💯💯🍾🎉🤪💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜
Whether you like the song or not, there is absolutely no disputing that the song is misogynistic. Even putting the words aside, the scene where there is a line of women all dressed the same to infer that we are merely objects and interchangeable is disgusting. My 15 year old daughter has expressed her concern at the damaging message that is sending out. Saying if we don’t like it then don’t listen to it, is not acceptable. Our teens are being influenced by this toxic masculinity.
yes exactly. Thank you. I really want him to hear this criticism and not dismiss it as "hate"
100% in AGREEMENT. And, Good on you that your 15 yo daughter recognizes these disgusting patriarchal tropes.👏👏👏
I have been thinking about this all day, since the song was released. To be clear, I had no problem at all with Jungkook saying he was going to f*ck whoever it was seven days a week, and I have no problem at all with his lyrics in this song either. Also, I like de vibe of the song a lot. But speaking about JH lyrics, maybe I wouldn't go as far as misogynistic, but man it makes me cringe hard. And not only the lyrics, the visuals with all those girls standing by his side like his puppets (that's the feeling I have watching it at least) make me cringe a lot. As a woman, if I met a man in real life and listen him talking like that, it would totally be a red flag, I would never give him a chance. Definitely it's gonna be the alternative version (without JH) in my playlist.
The uproar is not about sexuality. Latto was plenty sexual in her rap lyrics in Seven, as was JK. The difference is how Jack Harlow talks about women as non-humans (like so many US rappers ). Just line 'em up; they're objects for ... never mind. Harlow's lyrics are clearly, unmistakably, misogynistic. I've lived with this garbage my entire life (I'm now 69 y/o) and yes, I can identify misogyny when I hear it. Jose, I don't think you can spin this one as simply a difference of opinion over art. You wouldn't call racism an artistic choice, would you? Or anti-Hispanic, or anti-Asian, or anti-gay lyrics --would those be acceptable as "artistic choice"? I don't think so. P.S, JK should know better; look what happened to Leo from Trainee A.
And as a man I don’t think Jose should be saying what offends women. I would never presume to speak for a gay man. Or a Hispanic man.
Thank you.
Right on the mark. Thank you
@@jilll1287 Agreed. Thank you. 🙏
@@laurahiggins256 💜
Men calling women thots/wh*res/sluts/bitches is misogynistic and shouldn't be normalized. This is not debatable.
I am loving the alternate version of 3D more than the original version, idk why but i am not vibing with JH's part , after listening to Namjoon, yoongs and hobi's rap for years, rap like these doesn't impress me at all. Also the rap lyrics were very cringy and it made me feel lil uncomfortable. Now don't come at me because I loved jk's parts so much, the beat is really addictive maybe thats why i prefer the alternate version more than the orginal one. But can we just be honest jungkook can do better than this , that man his so freaking talented, i get it he is tryna explore and trying new kinda music but somehow i feel kook is in his teen rebellion phase , this is literally my honest opinion about 3d its a good song but jungkook is capable of more than this .
I agree
I agree, too. And the teen rebellion stage is not an expression of maturity.
I agree too. We know what JK is capable of. He's written some great songs with BTS. Yes, sure, he wants to try something different and I'm all for that, but he is better than this and he can write great songs. Not sure why he chose to let others write songs for him, but will wait to see what his album is like.
Agreed. I get that JK wants to change his image, and I support that, but I feel like he’s over correcting. That jack Harlow rap was NOT IT.
@@jessjess3434 Yeah, right? The rap part lyrics are such a turn off. There are a lot of great rap parts in songs and this is not one of them. His part really ruined it for me. I think JK could have done the song without Jack Harlow tbh.
I love JK, and I am totally cool about him expressing sexuality and intimacy. I was super cool with Lotto's verses, too. Just FYI - Jack Harlow's bit in 3D was full of ick for me. JK seemed genuine in 3D. That's the difference to me.
Jack frequently presents himself as a stud in his songs, to the point where The New Yorker commented on his 'soft misogyny.' His lyrics here don't really fit that classification, but it seems to me that it might be because these lyrics are more respectful than he's used to and he doesn't quite know how to pull off 'lusty yet respectful' the way JK does.
@@ystrwyou want a sexy lusty gentleman - but the rap was like a a childish selfish creep.
@@subobing3551 Key word gentleman. JK is one of those. Jack... does not come across that way. As you say.
Yes, as you said. From a kpop fan perspective, we're not used to seeing idols explicitly sing about their intimacy -- some fans even get jealous weirdly enough. So I think the biggest "outlash" is about him "singing grown" lol
Harlow made me cringe
Jk is a grown man and can express himself any way he wants. I am Army and love BTS, but I'm not going to put them on such a high pedestal and like everything they do just because. If a song is not my favorite I'll definitely share my opinion. With that said, the song has a great beat, Jk voice and dance is on point as always. Jack's rap is a no for me. I prefer the Alternate version and that's the one I will stream. Congrats to Jk and I wish him well. I am ready for solo songs from Jk. He doesn't need collabs. I'm ready to see and hear his solo songs. 💜
That's what I'm saying and still people calling me hater and not a "real" Army. Some of those people are acting like fanatics imo. I love the alternative version. I don't like JH verse. I was spoiled by BTS rap line and Jack's kind of lyrics are not for me.
@@Yoonji9212 I've been ARMY for 9 years and the amount of disrespect I'm seeing from newer ARMY towards other ARMY is appalling. The pushback I've received on X from supposed "OT7 ARMY" concerning JH's "rap" is ridiculous. I've been told to stay quiet and mind my own business. I've been told to stay quiet and stream anyway. I've been told that my opinions were stupid, wrong, "sounds like a prude" (which I am FAR from), and "old". The behavior of these "ARMY" is on par with solos and it's coming so fast and so furious that it's been hard to speak back or block everyone. So you're not alone in this.
@@kristie9144 I was always defending Armys but things I see recently..I don't do this anymore. It's hard to defend people when all I see is toxicity. I'm Army since 2020 and it's sad how much this fandom changed just in those years. I know how it was before from OG ARMYs like you, and it's really disappointing how much toxic people are here when ARMY was all about positivity before.
This. I like the alternative version. The main track - I found JHs rap cringey. I dont have a problem with the sex talk either.
@@kristie9144 they push me I push them back. I'm not going to allow folks in a fandom bully me. I'm Asian and grew up being bullied. I stood up then and I will stand up now against haters and bullies. Whatever happened to being kind and good humans? Are people so obsessed with Jk they are willing to show such hateful behavior just because a fan doesn't like a version of his song? Very sad. 🙁
Buckle up, this is gonna be a long one... 😅 Preface: I do have a problem with Jack's part.
First off, Jungkook is a fully grown young man and I totally agree that he can do whatever he wants including singing about explicit content.
This is actually the first I've heard about him not understanding the lyrics and tbh that's just ridiculous imo. Of course he understands the lyrics! He's neither stupid nor a child.
What I do have a problem with however is Jack's part for two reasons: 1) ABG is a term that is defined as Asian women who dress sl_tty and tend to hang around g_ngsters, in other words it's the equivalent of western rappers referring to women as "B's and ho-ho-hoe's" and that's just something I can't get behind no matter who it is and B) *I feel* that his lyrics objectify women as conquests to be counted as trophies and simultaneously showing women in a row definitely doesn't help. But those are my personal feelings and I don't state them as facts. I have no problem with JK's parts and I'm happy to support him by streaming the Alternate Version which I do like and have been streaming.
My biggest problem today has actually been other ARMYs aggressively attacking those of us who share these opinions. We've been called false ARMYs, saboteurs, solo stans, antis, toxic, told to be ashamed, etc. all day long. *That's just not cool!* Imo that's totally against the core values of ARMY, BTS and the individual members.
I've always promoted the guys and the fandom as positive, inclusive and respectful but what I've experienced today has absolutely made me question whether we as a fandom actually respect and uphold those principles or it's just lip service. We all have different boundaries and they need to be respected which has certainly not been the case today. For the first time ever I have actually been ashamed, not of JK but of the immature and disrespectful behaviour of some of my fellow ARMYs.
You've articulated what I've wanted to say but my English skills are too poor for that.
I agree 💜.
@@Yoonji9212 💜
I agree. I backed off and deleted my comments because I didn't want to be attacked by fellow ARMY for something I felt was an important issue for women and men to discuss and actually have a meaningful conversation about
Totally agree with this,I stream the alternative version too because of Jack's lines.I'm tired of getting pushback from some armies too.
The blatant objectification of women, and polygamous promiscuity that 3D endorses is horrible.
Sensual, sexy, and mature songs are AMAZING, but this is explicit, shallow, vulgar, and gross. It's a huge downgrade from Dreamers, Still With You, My Time, My You, Stay Alive, Begin, and Euphoria. Really disappointed.
This is so damn true. The songs you mentioned are so good, unlike 3d. Seven was not too bad as well.
I don't think many are complaining about Jung Kook. Jack Harlow's part is the problem. His disrespect for women goes against the "Love Yourself" message.
I read a lot of comments like "we know that Jungkook is respectful towards women" and I find it funny - because we clearly DON'T know ANYTHING about his own very private matters! There is a public and a private JK.
To me his choice to agree on JH lyrics is definitely revealing, furthermore as you said, he also anticipated the shock.
The song is a red flag for me. 🚩
Honestly, I'm Korean and Koreans listen to music a bit differently. The emphasis is on the melody and beats rather than the lyrics. Half the time people don't really know what the song means or what message it has. Which is why a lot of BTS music was 'missed' out on in Korea (their title songs are the only famous song). I don't think the pr team at big hit understood how big of a reaction JK would get from Jack Harlow's lyrics. All Korean music industry personnels think about these days are "globalizing kpop". Bang PD thinks they should remove K from Kpop. I know full well that they advised JK on targeting his new album to the North American listeners and I think they think it's okay to have vulgar lyrics as that is rather a norm in Hollywood. They did a great job receiving songs from western artists. They also got western artists to feature in two of his title tracks. I see how they're marketing JK. I don't think JK singing 3D or letting Jack Harlow feature with his rap has anything to do with JK's personal values. Like you said we know nothing and he clearly said the songs don't speak for any of his experience or comes from him. I know that the language barrier def had some meaning of the lyrics lost in translation even with the translator (knowing how they don't fully translate sexual nuances and slangs properly in Korea) and even if it wasn't 100% translated properly, JK said he was worried with the lyrics. I think he went with it because he got the advice and direction of the company. If he was given full freedom to do what he was comfortable with only, without thinking about how it might be rude to turn down another artists work (jack preparing his segment) and all, I don't think he would have chosen these kinds of lyrics. It's actually wild for anyone to sing these kinds of lyrics in Korea. No mainstream music is this vulgar so I assume it was a shock for JK too when he first got the lyrics translated for him. But in Korean peoples mind, that's what Americans do and maybe that's what the public likes since those songs do so well. I think Big Hit needs someone in the team from North America but someone who is familiar with Kpop. They need better understanding of North American listeners and what fans/public truly want. Kpop stands out because it's different. BTS stands out because they're unique, a breath of fresh air. There's a reason why people are attracted to BTS and their music. I hope Big Hit doesn't lost sight of the reason.
Jungkook said himself he knows exactly what the songs are about. There's literally no excuse for 3D which left A LOT of ARMYs heartbroken. Clearly most of the Korean audience don't understand - ejaculation as "rain" and "champagne" on repeat plus the stupid JH part.
Agree and knowing that Army still get the albun 🤔
@@susufromheavenI'm curious to know what makes you think that most Koreans don't understand? I think it's rather common in most cultures to identify what those types of metaphors are actually about in your basic-generic pop song, but maybe I'm wrong. My sole issue here is clearly the rap part. I always thought Jack Harlow had some garbage lyrics and was hated for a reason in the hip-hop community, but now I actually may think he's a genius as his verse managed to trigger a whole scope of different types of abuse that led a lot of armys believe it was misogynistic (in a sense, it is! Because how tf do you want to evoke such violent images in people's minds knowing that most fans are women and knowing a lot a women have traumas involving those topics, too?) Even his own fans called him out for using "dead body" while objectifying women (also so telling because Jack Harlow isn't really known to have the most respectful lyrics when talking about women, uk). So yeah, not letting anyone tell me that I'm pearl clutching or too sensitive. I personally love that Jungkook is singing about sex and I love seven, but Harlow is nothing sexy or sensual or respectful. It's actually so bad you would think it was made on purpose to set Jungkook up. (Also referring to Asian women specifically and how they get cute *for* him, just because Jungkook is Asian, hello??) I freaking hate it so much and it's so disappointing to see Jungkook performs Jack Harlow's verse again and again, counting women on his fingers and making the crowd sing along. If he likes it so much then why doesn't he sing it himself like Latto's part? There's too much to unpack here and I'll stop here because I don't want to make too much assumptions and disrespect him. This just comes from a place of genuine confusion rather than malice, and as you said I'm probably heartbroken.
@@cerise8128 Tbh this is such a wide discussion I can't type all what I want to say. I hate hate hate 3D and wished they wouldn't do it live. I don't like seeing it on Times Square although Jungkook tries his best not to mouth the rap lines - he's failing. My theory is many turned their back on him because of 3D. Why is "Standing next to you" (no vulgarities, just perfectly sweet, sensual lyrics) not really taking off? In my opinion everyone dancing or cheering on 3D isn't right in his/her mind. Who would want to be counted out like that? "1 girl - too boring?" ---> Lyrics DO matter. At least he admitted to the image change he's looking for (which he firsthandly denied). JK as fckboi. Do I like it? I'm confused.
For me personally I found JH lyrics more cringey than misogynistic which is why I wasn't really feeling it. I guess I've been too spoiled by the rap line and I also really enjoyed Latto in Seven so expectations were high. Still the songs an undeniable bop and I will fully be supporting JK like always.
I mean I feel like it's supposed to be kinda cringe and nonsensical but I don't know what people are getting to calling it misogynistic. Jack Harlow is talking about himself in the song "h0rny" and "wh0r!Ng" everything is about himself but few people with no reading comprehension think he is talking about women.. it's just weird, like people WANT it to be misogynistic when it's not.
I definitely was not feeling JH on the song. I had to mute him. It was very cringe to me.
Exact same!
I had no issues with all the sex talk. I just didn't think the rap part was needed or added anything specific to the song except make it sound like Jack was a fuckboy who wanted "Asian baby girls" 😂
agreed but then I have to remember that all western rap music is like this so. I’m glad I kept my expectations low for jack because i wasn’t surprised at all.
You are right Jose, words do carry weight.. And that's the reason why this rap part is labeled as misogynistic BY WOMEN...
Because it must be made clear and straight forward what this is. Women are the ones who can really feel what objectifification means, not a man..
It's not about "liking and disliking".. It's something serious.
Respecting and defending JK is one thing but just saying "everything is great -everything is right" while turning a blind eye, that's the wrong thing to do here.. It's not even good for him, having people praising him no matter what! He has asked from people to be honest as well.. so this is honesty!
JK's part is fine, but he chose to collaborate with this man and to include his (disgusting and odjectifing) rap on the song,.
At least i am glad that there are people who see it the same way as me... i thought everyone would say "oo what a masterpiece"..
This song without the rap part would be just fine..
And btw no one is talkig about JK being a man, not a child anymore and that he can express himself and that he is not a virgin.. all of these are completely irrelevant to the matter here!
As a woman, I can say that you just didn’t understand the lyrics and intention of it. Your understanding is simplistic and didn’t recognize how the symbolism and storyline in the MV showed how there was a battle between two kinds of men and JK won (that’s why the chess game was there but there were other signs too). Jack also said the womanizing person was who he USED to be
@@WE__BTS Wow, such mental gymnastics.
No, I’m sorry that’s a stretch. I teach English analysis for a living and there are definitely elements of misogyny in there. Maybe not in JKs part, but definitely in Harlow’s. It is disappointing. What is more disappointing is that too many people are giving JK a free pass on this. I know he is the golden maknae, and I know we love him. But it is very disappointing.
I completely agree with you. I feel humiliated by his use of “girl”. There’s nothing “grown-ass man” about this. 😢
Yes exactly 💜
Completely agree with you
I agree.
Right?! Also, if it was some homophobic lyrics, how would Jose feel as a gay man?
I love BTS, JK is one of the sweetest guys I’ve ever seen but this collab was poor. JH’s verse is disgusting
I am a woman, Asian ARMY living in one of Asian countries and not a native English speaker.
Now, not a few ARMYs in my country are hurt, angry, and offended by the derogatory lyric about Asian women. Some are really struggling with accepting it because they love JK very much.
Even if there is some hidden meaning in the lyric, many of us, who are not native English speakers, do not realize.
What was conveyed to us were words that demeaned Asian women. I am one of those who disturbed by the lyric.
Of course, there are ARMYs fully support JK and, sadly, attack ARMYs who express uncomfortable feeling to the song or lyrics.
Fact. HYBE does not have a translated subtitle for the part of jack's lyric. It's still in English so many people in my country don't understand it. maybe HYBE knew that the lyric might be a problem among Asian women.
Fact. BTS once issued a statement on hatred against Asian in US.....
Interesting, regarding the lack of translation. Thanks for sharing.
@@nicolecapers6714
To add, the translated lyrics are vague about sex, and some ARMYs think this is a romantic long distance relationship, not sex. 😂 Nevertheless, there are ARMYs understand English as good as native speakers, so HYBE cannot hide everything.
Thank you for sharing your opinion. It is good to have open conversations. It is good to share different perspectives.
Jungkook is very respectful towards women and as far as the lyrics being sexual that isn't a problem for me.
However, as a woman, I have to express that the lyrics combined with the visuals of Harlow's part is very disrespectful to women. He is speaking about himself disrespecting women, which tells guys that the behavior is ok. It perpetuates the problem of devaluing women.
That is just my opinion and they are free to express themselves, I just can't support that.
I am thankful they put out an alternative version with just JK. I will always be a fan of JK and BTS and will support them where I can.
Thank you for opening up a respectful conversation where we can all share our thoughts.
I see where you're coming from, but I think it's very important to differentiate mature/grown/sexy/etc from misogynistic. You can be grown and sexy without degrading women. The implication that the only way to be grown is to objectify women is so incredibly harmful. I also want to note that I would never blame him for not realizing how these lyrics would come across, but now that he knows, he/jack/hybe should take accountability. Honestly, if he came out with a statement that he didn't realize how these lyrics would come across so now he will learn and do better in the future, I would have huge respect for that.
There was no real backlash with Seven because it was sexy, not misogynistic. I 100% agree that no reasonable person should be upset with a 26 year old JK for talking about sex. The problem that I have with the song, and specifically Jack's verse, is that it isn't just a matter of embracing his sexuality, it's specifically about using women for sex. One woman wasn't enough for him so he needs 4, (the way he says it comes across like he sees these woman as objects to be used, not people to be loved). It's also weirdly fetishizing of Asian women with the "All my ABGs get cute for me" line.
Also "When I seen that body, you would think it was a dead body the way I told my boys, "Come look"" gives me terrible vibes all around. The implication that he's showing all of his boys this woman's body is weird on it's own, especially in conjunction with his line about getting a woman to "play" with herself on camera for him. Not to mention the comparison to a dead body specifically, instead of literally anything that would be more flattering, gives me very creepy vibes of the person being unconscious.
I fully support JK being mature and showing that maturity, but this rap was misogynistic, and turning a blind eye doesn't change that. I will continue to support JK, but I will not be listening or recommending the Jack Harlow version of the song, and I really hope JK and ARMY take this opportunity to genuinely reflect on the topic of misogyny and doing better, like RM did with getting his lyrics reviewed by a women's studies professor when he was accused of misogynistic lyrics (Which were way less problematic than this but he still took accountability and learned from the situation).
What RM did with taking accountability is a big reason that BTS is respected for their lyrics. I agree with you completely about all you said. I just got a little sick to my stomach about the dead body line. Have you ever seen the movie Rivers Edge.? Creepy but I think it was based on a true story. Anyway, JK just got back from GCF where one of the big topics is women’s inequality in the world etc. I found out a lot of facts on the app ( I won tickets to the show!) about this topic and I just have a real aversion to anything JH talks about in his rap. JK’s lines were fun and sexy. I know JK is a sexual potent man probably with a great libido, but does he really want to own this other creepy stuff? It makes me uncomfortable because I don’t want to believe he is ok with this.
THIS!!!
exactly! my thoughts exactly! 💯 nothing wrong with a sex song but degrading women, disrespecting us and portraying us as sex objects are such a NO NO to me.
@@marinaaliongcoBro you realizes it’s a two way street right? Men and women sexualize each other female and male rappers. Plus Jack is speaking about himself and matching the concept of the song which JK wanted I’m sure he doesn’t give a fuck what people think hence why he released it
This. This this this. 👏 💜🫶
Ok now let the women speak...I don't need a man to tell me what I should and shouldn't find degrading. You can make the most sexually explicit music without it being degrading to women! I am talking about jack's first rap verse in case you are wondering.
Jose I am disappointed in you. You should have been more socially conscious when discussing this topic. This ain't it
I’m tired of women having to explain themselves. Especially about things that are about or affect us.
I’m a woman, I’m a female. I was not offended by the song. Humans are sexual beings, and thus I have 0 problem with HUMANS-men and women making songs about sex. Jack Harlow & JK is not gonna fuck you or approach you to fuck. This is about them dealing with women who WANT to have sex with them. JK & Jack Harlow both said in the song “SO IF YOU LET ME, I WANNA SEE IT IN MOTION.” It’s literally about CONSENT, don’t we all say “consent is sexy” Jack Harlow said in the end “AND YOU AIN’T GOTTA GUARANTEE NOTHING I JUST WANNA SEE IF I GET LUCKY, I JUST WANNA MEET YOU IN THE PHYSICAL AND SEE IF YOU WOULD TOUCH ME” again CONSENT & Jack Harlow saying he will fly a girl out to him to just have her AROUND him, just see IF she would let him have sex with her. She doesn’t even HAVE to GUARANTEE she will have sex with him, there is 0 PRESSURE. He just wants to see if he gets LUCKY & she would TOUCH him. He just wants to see her beauty in person. So many women make explicit songs, same thing with Latto. CONSENT. Stop being offended. I have heard songs about men forcing women to do things, this ain’t that. Breathe, and don’t listen to it if you don’t want to.
@@eternitysafro1083 Thanks for this interpretation! 👏👏
@@eternitysafro1083ABG in & of itself, is disgusting.
JK has the right to express his sexuality but 3D misogynistic lyrics and video is gross. Also fetishized Asian women. Double ick.
Not going to give JK a pass here. This is HIS song, and I’m sure he heard the lyrics before the recording. He was part of the video. He had the clout to say something. How are female ARMYs supposed to feel when BTS/JK sing about loving yourself but puts out these misogynistic messages on his solo.
My opinion is that Jack Harlow's lyrics are misogynistic. As context, I do have advanced education in gender studies and my career involves both vetting social media content for gender-based issues and working directly with and advocating for victims of gender-based violence. My problem isn't with JK releasing sexually explicit music. My problem isn't with believing JK should remain "innocent" or be pigeon-holed into an image that's not authentic. As you say repeatedly, he's an adult. My problem is that BTS has struggled with ARMYs calling out their misogyny in the past and they addressed it directly and thoughtfully--dare I say, with MATURITY. This time around, instead of thoughtful, respectful engagement, we have mass gaslighting and attacks from ARMY, and dismissal/silence from JK and BigHit/HYBE. I'm neither stupid, naive, nor am I a "prude" as has been the most common response to my concerns. The idea that it is my duty as an ARMY to stream and support above all else is laughable. I will never compromise my personal ethics in that way, and if BTS has any integrity in the messaging they have consistently put out over the past decade, they wouldn't want me to. I have as much right to not support this song as other ARMYs have to support it. Not once have I tried to convince other ARMYs to agree with me or change their behavior to suit me. The much sadder consequence of this whole experience for me, is that it makes me question the sincerity of other BTS/HYBE content. As an ARMY, is the message still to love myself? To respect myself? Am I valuable as a human being? Because Jack Harlow's lyrics contradict that messaging. HYBE is selling a product, so is BTS. So is JK, and if supporting misogyny in his content is authentically who he is, fine--he's an adult. A huge part of the appeal for me with BTS is that I don't have to put up with the degrading content that's so pervasive in popular entertainment, and I understand that JK/HYBE are chasing those sweet American market dollars. If part of being an ARMY is going to require me to do mental gymnastics and set aside my personal ethics to twist misogynistic lyrics into something that I don't feel degraded by, then it's time for me to go. And that's sad for me. But I'm far from the only ARMY struggling with this sense of insincerity and hypocrisy right now. And no, I won't just shut up about it--silencing respectful voices of dissent never strengthens communities. Where I once believed that ARMYs could have these difficult discussions and become a stronger community for it, right now, I understand why so many non-ARMYs see us as cultish.
A very much needed comment. I can´t believe what´s happening right now and how the whole BTS brand is being flushed down the toilette, not necessarily because of the song itself but because of what it means for the principles they always used to have. To reduce the whole issue with the song to fans inability to see JK as an adult, sexually driven man is such an offense to our intelligence I am genuinely bummed.
This is the first comment where I've referenced it because every other attempt to engage in honest conversation has been overwhelmed with name-calling and gaslighting. I was hoping to get around the idea that I just don't understand what I'm talking about or that my issue is with sexually explicit content. Borahae 💜 @@LCAS3
Wow this was perfectly said! Thank you.
Thank you so much. Appreciate your efforts. I, too, tried to make a point without mentioning work background and although I have seen the dissonance myself in the field in real life, it is still very painful to witness in these social media platforms the degree to which these issues have been 'normalised / desensitised' in society. It can be overwhelming to see how it is dismissed as nothing more than a joke, standard rap language so it is ok, "that's life, grow up, it's just a song" and any number of excuses when these are very real global issues that women battle every single day, some with horrific consequences. To those with lived experiences and who continue to go through such traumatizing experiences, a carelessly used derogatory word in the guise of a rap lyric is their actual reality.
Well said! My thoughts exactly.
As someone who wasn’t a fan of Seven (i identify as ace and I get the ick from anything sexual) or 3D(once again, too sexual for me, plus i do not like harlow’s lyrics), I don’t personally like the content, and that’s fine.
Does that mean I’m not gonna support him in future endeavors? Of course I will!
But I don’t think it’s right to force people to like something they don’t vibe with. It’s not about Jungkook’s age or how he wants to approach his dream of being a global pop star for some people. It’s about being triggered by the song for whatever reason, and feeling uncomfortable.
And then being told that they’re an anti or they’re sabotaging his streams because they don’t want to listen to something that makes them uncomfortable!! JK knows we’re not all gonna like every song, he’s gonna keep doing his own thing, and I’ll support him when I’m able to stomach the content. But it sucks being lumped in with people who still view JK as some baby who isn’t allowed to do stuff like this.
Same
Perfectly stated! Thank you.
I feel the same!
I agree with you💜
Ditto!
I'm all for men growing up and experimenting with sound. What disturbs me is the tone of his direction. It's not just Jungkook. It's US pop music in general. It's very harsh and aggressive toward women. I hate to see this harshness being perpetuated by anyone toward anyone. All men should be allowed to grow up and experiment and become who they are without oppressing folks.
Then you must not listen to Niki Minaj, Meg Thee Stallion or Cardinal B. It goes both ways!!!
I hate to see harshness or aggression toward anyone, including ourselves. @@ATLG1RL727
@@ATLG1RL727”it’s US pop music in general”
@@penyarol83 And US pop music has been that way for decades…From Madonna, Brittany Spears, Justin Timberlake, and others of that era to rappers like Jay Z and Lil Nas X collaborating with pop artists. What’s different now? At least JK didn’t just put it out there like a lot of artists do now. Heck…even Beyonce leaves nothing to the imagination. Women are no longer being victims of objectification in music. They have taken their power back and are flipping the script; single by single and album by album…
@@ATLG1RL727no I listen to kendrik lamar, jcole, nas and biggie. Music with rhymes and poetry that tells a story
I LOVE that in both Seven and 3D, while obviously about sex, it's very clear that he approaches it with a lot of care and intimacy and that makes me love these songs even more.
"Kiss your waist & ease your mind"...."leave you with that afterglow"....
@Idgaf838 "leave you with that afterglow" "weight of the world on your shoulders I kiss your waist to ease your mind"
@@Idgaf838 Good examples in the replies already but "show you what devotion is, deeper than the ocean is", "weight of the world on your shoulders, I kiss your waist and ease your mind". Obviously having that much sex would get super uncomfortable, but it's clear that his partner comes first (wink wink) and he just wants to give them everything he has...which is very caring to say the least.
Thanks for the discussion. There is also people saying that when Harlow is speaking about a dead body that he’s talking about drugging women. That is SUCH a reach. But that’s out there. Would love to see more discussion about these lyrics.
🙌🏼!!yyYAAaSSss!!👏🏼… 🍓thªnk yOu!🐢 JOSE… the MV is 🔥HaWT🔥 😍💥DAyYyumM!!🔥🤩 …. truly sorry for the ones who can’t accept it, ya’ll missin a lot… they want wholesome? There’s an entire genre, station, popular artists for that. They can go there.
Once again… I agree with onthemetro10 … and thank you thank you thank you JOSE! 🙌🏼
I'm in the camp of JK can do whatever he wants. I am also in the camp that if i don't like a song, regardless of how much I like/love and audience, then I just won't listen to the song. That doesn't mean I don't like the artist. It just means I didn't vibe with that track and THAT'S OK! But I will say in regards to 3D, I don't need to hear a version with Jack Harlow again. It was my first experience hearing him and frankly, he sounded corny and cringy. I didn't like him. No thank you. But let JK live.
Corny and cringey are perfect descriptions for Jack Harlow yes lol
100% this
@@KristinaMoonchild7 YES lol
So agree. If I dont like it, I wont listen to it.
Whar ive seen though is that some people take that as you arent a fan or are being toxic when you express that
I literally listened to it once and never again! And JK is my hardcore bias - It's Harlow's lyrics. Not my jam.
José I totally understand defending Jungkook here as he’s allowed to express his sexuality + I highly doubt he participated in writing Jack Harlow’s verse. The criticism of misogyny is not on JK, it’s on Harlow.
You’re allowed to have your opinion yes, but as a man you don’t get to say something isn’t misogynistic (I say this as a man myself).
“ABG”s is a phrase that not only fetishizes Asian women (search “Yellow fever”), it’s derogatory as it specifically refers to lower class women in an offensive way.
Also, you say him talking about his number of girls is not misogyny because he’s just expressing that he’s a sexual person, but you got to look at everything in the song and video. In the video, he literally lines women up side by side as if they are toys and judges them and their value to him, which is literally the definition of objectification.
There is no subjectivity here. Harlow’s lyrics are objectively misogynistic and objectively anti-Asian. This isn’t even a criticism of JK, it’s all on Harlow, so I simply just don’t understand why you’re jumping through loops to defend these lyrics when they are obviously misogynistic.
I really like your videos and you usually hit the mark, but sometimes I feel like you really let your bias get in the way when it comes to controversies surrounding the boys.
This is so well said. Thank you! Almost everyone who has a problem with this song has a problem with JH, not JK. You don't leave critical thinking behind when you become ARMY. I was discussing this with a male friend earlier (I'm female) and he agreed that a man has no place lecturing anyone about misogyny. I like Jose, but agree that he missed the mark here.
@iamwhatimman5264, you're right on point!
Actually also JK is blamed here because he agree to include those types of lyrics in his song !! So you can’t free pass it for JK !!
@@wise5746 - I just want to point out as someone who worked in the music biz, that JK might NOT have as much control as people think. There are label executives, writers, producers & video director that all have more input. - The rest of the song, he agreed to sing. But as far as control over the (demeaning) rap part... I don't know.
@@lalaking7974 That's true, but I also feel people shouldn't immediately try to dismiss that JK could've had a hand in approving what lyrics went into the song he chose. I feel like more fans need to accept that as a possibility rather than just coddling JK for his every decision. After all, providing him with constructive critique is what's gonna allow him to grow more than praising his every song ever will.
I think you have to consider your audience. If you have a clean image and choose to change, there needs to be a warning. Even if it’s mainly just the collab. Harlow is being disrespectful. The way he just stepped over the “dead body” in a dismissive way is an example.
No Jungkook don't have to watch out for his audience if they're younger teenagers that's the parent jobs not Jungkook job
@@KathleenMeehan-gq8bs No Jungkook doesn't needed to take responsibility with teenagers army that is the teenages army parents job not Jungkook it's the parent to watch over what they teen watches or says
With all due respect my guy, I feel like you completely failed to mention the versus that most people _actually_ have a problem with, rather than trying to relate it to Jungkook and people not allowing him to be a grown man etc etc. For example, you skipped straight over Jack's line that went "When I seen that body, you would think it was a dead body. The way I told my boys, "Come look." Like... I don't blame people for thinking that's a really gross line. It's kinda giving **potential trigger warning** Jung Joon Young vibes from him bragging to his friends about the women he filmed himself raping while they were unconscious, AKA in a 'dead body' state. Like I doubt that was the intention, but the line still has really gross connotations that caused me to be reminded of that case.
Not to mention Jack literally uses the word "thots," (which you also didn't mention) which even the dictionary acknowledges as a derogatory word used against women who have had various sexual encounters, even though there inherently is nothing wrong with that. Only when a woman does it apparently. So yes, using such a word stemming from misogyny, is indeed misogynistic. And seeing how at 10:07 you explicitly say that you think Jack's verse was just him talking about his "sexual openness" rather than him being a womaniser, really tells me all I need to know about why you made this video in the first place.
Overall, it feels like you are being rather selective about which lyrics you are choosing to discuss and neglecting the parts in Jack's versus which objectively _are_ misogynistic, proving that you're yet another man trying to speak on something that he has never experienced, yet is trying to tell the people who _do_ experience it that it's not misogynistic. And trust me, that's not something you want to be known for.
Okay yall took the dead body part too far 🤣 if I saw that body you would think it was a dead body the way I tell my friends come look. She's so attractive you'd think somebody died because of how much of a stirrup he causin to get them to come look. It's never been about rape.....idea where yall got that from (edit) "thot" means that hoe over there it's general not just for women males can be thots too 🤣 his whole verse literally is him saying he used to be a man whore then got locked down by one girl and now he only obsessed with her and her attention.
@@kaylalezine2295 Never said it directly was about rape, just that it had strong connotations to it. Not sure why you apparently couldn't understand "where I got that idea from" when I just explained so in my comment you replied to, but 🤷♀
No matter how you try and twist it, it's still objectifying to get "your boys" to come look at your partner as if she's some sort of pretty display. And regardless if the term 'thot' is being used for boys as well, it doesn't change how it's originally intended as a derogatory term for women, much like how slut and whore is. You using the term 'man whore' rather than just 'whore' when referring to Jack showcases this exactly.
@goldenfred5815 bud the line wasn't "come look at my girlfriend!" It was take my boys to stony Brooke which is a street usually where people catch a date or hook up they'd watch girls go by dude went up there saw her and told his boys to come look
@goldenfred5815 using the word man whore is just my use of it. Doesn't negate the fact that in 2023 they're known to be neutral words.
@@kaylalezine2295 "a street usually where people catch a date or hook up they'd watch girls go by, dude went up there, saw her and told his boys to come look" is an exact demonstration of objectifying someone. Going up there to watch women walk by for your own pleasure is highly likely to make them feel objectified and grossed out. Especially if you're specifically drawing attention to her by calling your friends over to look at her when she's just minding her business. And the fact that it's apparently a notorious place for that reason just makes it worse lmao.
And my point is that you wouldn't need to use the word 'man whore' if the term was truly a neutral one, which it's not. Because even today, terms like bitches, whores, sluts, hoes are degradations that still mostly are (and originally intended) to be used against women, hence is also why if you were to call a woman any of those words even today, you bet you'll be highly likely (and rightly) called out for misogyny.
Why skip over the entire lyric that details mysoginistic behaviour in order to defend the rest of his verse that isn't at all problematic (apart from maybe the ABGs line that you also knda glossed over)?
The line "when I seen that body, you would think it was a dead body, the way I told my boys 'come look'." that you conveniently skiped over is mysoginistic. It describes a behaviour by men of treating a women they are attracted to as a gawking object for other men to look at.
The only 2 scenarios here are
- this is a girl jack is already with and he is "showing her off" to his friends and attaching the "value" he sees in her to her looks (the value other men would approve of, meaning her worth to him is dependent on other men being attracted to her as well)
- this is a random girl jack saw and was attracted to and wanted to get his friends to gawk at her along with him (objectifying her) instead of treating her like an actual person
In both scenarios a woman is being objectified (seemly against her will) by a group of men thanks to Jack's actions.
I understand supporting JK, I have no issue with his songs being sexual, I have no issue with jack harlow, I have no issue with defending JK's autonomy as an artist and a grown ass man, what I do have an issue with is picking and choosing the things we are going to analize in order to defend jack's verse just to "go against jk haters" in a very broad way. What I have an issue with is painting all criticism as hate, it's addressing all these issues as if they are all being said by the same ppl.
Yes, many armys have had a problem with the song, some for ridiculous reasons, it's okay to call that out, it's not ok to group together everyone who has found an issue with the song for different reasons as if they are all one in the same and dismiss the legitimate criticism (i.e. perpetuating mysoginistic attitudes) many armys have pointed out.
Jose deciding as a man whether something is sexist or not has Jack Harlow vibes.
I'm a veteran ARMY (2014) and I've seen the members do everything from soft to softcore. Neither 7 nor 3D are all that shocking compared to some of the older material. My issue is with Harlow. If people stepped back and looked at his ENTIRE catalog as a whole, you'd see that it reads poorly for women. It's cringe at best and absolutely misogynistic at worst. I am not going to fault JK for choosing to collab with him. That choice isn't up to me. I will always support the members as they are my priority. However, I will not support Harlow in any capacity - be it interviews or whatever.
Why not fault JK for collabbing w/ him if he’s such a cringe/misogynistic artist? It seems like ARMY are so afraid of having any criticism of the members.
@@penyarol83 unfortunately the western music industry is full of artists like Jack Harlow and that is what is popular right now.. so if the goal is to achieve success as a global pop artist, you need to align with western artists that are currently popular and will expose JK to a broader audience. When I saw he was collaborating with JH, I knew from jump there would be controversy. We can absolutely criticize the collab choice, but I gather that’s a risk JK, the producers and labels are willing to make.
200% agreeing with what you said.
@@penyarol83agree with you
I definitely think this was a deliberate experiment to see the magnitude of the controversy vs. the bump in US sales and air play. Also, of course, JK indulging in some youthful rebellion he’s been suppressing for a long time. He was really really young when RM was catching flack for War of Hormone (so innocent, actually) and deleting Expensive Girl.
i am a 58 year old army. i was drawn to bts because of their meaningful and mature lyrics. yes, i am not into this kind of lyrics but it doesnt mean i am not going to support him anymore. he is like my child that even though i dont approve of every decision he does, it doesnt mean that i love him less. will i listen to this song again,? no, but still waiting for other projects for him
Such a mature and respectful way to deal with it! Indeed u r elder than me :)
I think there are two discussions being made when it comes to this song and the reactions.
People have a problem with JH and his part of the song and they voice their opinions, they are not hating on JK or the rest of the song, it's just JH part does not sit well with them. They are then attacked by parts of the fandom, being called names, being told that what they are feeling is wrong, they have the wrong opinions...almost being gaslit and victim blamed. I have a big issues with that! Everyone is allowed an opinion, everyone is allowed to express that opinion and no one should ever be told off for expressing it.
I also see a lot of people saying that the people that expresses a different opinion than just blindly loving the song just doesn't understand that JK is an adult singing about s*x. That's not the issue most people seem to have with the song. So again, instead of just letting people have their opinion, other people are explaining away their opinions by saying, oh you don't want him to grow up etc.
My honest opinion is that it is a mediocre western pop song, could have been sung by anyone, and we know the song was being shopped around as JK admits to listening and looking over several options before settling for this one. Did JK need JH on the song, absolutely not, he could have carried the song all by himself, the man is really talented. Do I wish he perhaps would have chosen something different and a different artist to work with, sure, but this was his choice, just as it is my choice to not listen to the song 24/7 because it's just not for me. (Rap line is more my line)
He is an adult and this is the path he has for now chosen with his musical career, that does not mean that the entire BTS fandom need to swallow it all and praise it to the sky. There's seven of them, they have all shown us how different they are and we do not blindly have to buy everything from everyone. No one is a bad Army for not buying this song, it just shows that you're a free thinker and know what you like and dislike and that's the beauty of our fandom, the diversity. We don't all have to love everything at all times. 💜💜💜
Exactly! I love BTS, doesn't mean I love every song members have put out.
I do not like Jungkook's two new songs.
To each their own!
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Thank you for writing this.
@@hummingbird11 I feel the same way, JK has chosen a musical path that I don't like. That's his choice and it makes him happy. Doesn't mean I think badly of him. I just don't have to listen to the songs either.
Best comment I've read yet on this whole "thing", that's not really a thing... Well said!
Jose, are you interested in listening to an Asian woman that disagrees with your opinion? I'm not Asian but am female. There are more eloquent Asian women addressing this better than I can.
Still I don't agree you can make this definitive response as if anyone that has genuine disagreement is labeled wrong. I don't agree with a white male rapper using terms like ABG, a woman like a 'de*d body' and thots. So are we infantilizing when the expectation is simply respect? Respectfully Jose, I don't agree with you painting this in 1 broad stroke.
I love Jose, and Jungkook is my bias. I’m disappointed by jack harlow’s lyrics because as a society, we know better and we can do better (case in point, almost all BTS lyrics that focus on self love and acceptance). I think Jungkook versus Harlow is a perfect example of how being sexual can be done either with sincerity or in a cringy and distasteful way.
I’ll still to the alternate version without the rap…
This song really proved some of y'all don't listen to bts actually😭like ok did you read the lyrics to joke? Expensive girl? Converse high?
@@jmbltc Except converse high referred to sex by using clever references and didn't have to be in an explicitly sexual and distasteful manner. And after Expensive Girl, RM has since admitted to seeing a woman's professional expert to check his lyrics for any misogyny, so not sure what point you're trying to make gurl 😭
@@GoldenWreck expensive girl is NAWT misogynistic my friend😭 that's literally the point I'm trynna make that whole thing was not meant for expensive girl and not everything always has be in innuendos some of y'all just ain't used to that typa music I'll assume
@@jmbltc Or maybe some people just don't like sexually explicit and derogatory lyrics and are exercising their right to express that?
@@GoldenWreck derogatory lyrics where???? omg another accusation out the blue
There’s a difference between explicit and using women like Jack Harlow sings about. He has women lined up like objects.
This is not an issue with being explicit!!! It’s an issue of respect.
Talk about turning yourself inside out to try to excuse Jack’s part.
No one is questioning Jungkook’s intelligence. But the fact is that 3D is a song by Jungkook of BTS featuring Jack Harlow, and the song contains a slur targeting women of Asian heritage. That’s a problem and Jungkook needs to own up to it. I expect nothing less from a BTS member.
true.
wait what slur????
A3Gs@@AvgUtubeWatcher
Totally agree
This song/collab is an intelligent move by JK. It's exactly meant to criticise misogyny, white men behaviour, anti-asian-racism, stereotypes etc.
It's sad to me that so many people seem to genuinely believe that those objecting are prudish, or "don't want him to grow up", rather than understanding that there is a difference between respectful, erotic, sexuality and disrespectful, immature vulgarity. The only respectful words in the song are "if you're ready and if you'll let me", and JK made sure to highlight them and tell us those words were his, and if you've seen him on Weverse listening to it, he's clearly uncomfortable with the language - it's not putting him down to point this out, it's supporting him.
totally agree.
I just posted a comment but cannot see it! JK has been my bias for a very long time and I love him a lot 💜 However, there are misogynistic undertones and the fetishization of asian of
women which have deep colonial and orientalist roots with implications on Jack's part. There's literally a whole line of women and none of them are even asian. As armies, we have a right to support Jungkook, but also a right to not sacrifice our self-respect at the cost of anything. The same way BTS and JK would do the same. (They unfollowed a load of people on twitter). If JK fully understands and endorses these ideas, then that is something JK will be challenged on, the same way he would challenge armies when his self respect is on the line. It's good to have these conversations as respecting women and surrounding yourself with those who do is the sexiest thing 💜
I'm a 71-yr-old great grandma. If I was JK's grandma, I would say, "Sweetie, I don't like this." But... I am NOT his grandma; I am nothing to him (other than ARMY). As ARMY, my responsibility is to support him.
Also... this song is 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
💜💪🏻💜
I love this so much. Not me clicking off the video when my mom walks in the room.
@@leahj139 🤣I’m the same when my kids walk into the room. BUT I have to clear the history too since we share a tablet. 😉
I'm 60 and you said that beautifully. I love this song so much. If I was his gma, I would tell him Whoo Hoo you go dude!!! 💜
Same age as you, I also love the song, like Jose said he is not a 6 year old kid. End of the day is JK’s song.
57 year old Army! Yes I clutched my pearls but because I like that JK is showing that he is a man and if you think nephew is not doing grown up things, oh well live in Egypt and be in denial, but all 7 are grown, grown enough to serve their country in the military and grown enough to say he is having sex ( because you know he is). Let OT 7 grow up y’all!
As far as I can tell, the negative reactions are directed towards Jack Harlow’s lyrics-not JK’s. I feel like you’re not responding to the most powerful and trenchant critiques out there.
Take this excerpt from critic Tiffany Vogt’s tweets: “Misogyny is when women are portrayed as objects and forced into situations without independent ability to have control over their lives. Use of ‘took’ implies force and lack of choice. Isolating a women in a remote location then inviting ‘my boys to come look’ sounds like a captive situation. The ‘one girl’ ‘two girl’ ‘three girl’ ‘four girl’ lyrics indicate how men view one women as not enough and how men will pressure other men to collect women. Also saying ‘I will fly you from Korea to Kentucky’ suggests women don’t have their own money and wouldn’t be able to leave. So much of the featured artist lyrics are deeply misogynistic.”
Wanted to share the counterpoint-I don’t personally want to get involved in the argument. I’m happy to keep streaming the alternate version.
I will be playing the alternate version. Because I DO like things sexy; and there is nothing sexier than trust. I wouldn’t trust Hack Harlow with a pack of my gum, let alone Armys love, loyalty, desire, tenderness, passion and lust. Do you understand? Jack barging into this otherwise perfect song and video ..reminds me of some Team 10 sh*t. And there’s nothing sexy about that. I’m not a prude, I happen to think for example War Of Hormone is the opposite of misogyny: it’s phylogeny. I’m not anti collab either; RM and Paul Blanco is Chef’s kiss, JK and Latto together on stage in New York.. I was watching that wanting them to connect even more! She chewed up her verse, added to the song and video, and was fully empowered. And sexy af. Suran, YouJeen, Colde, Megan Thee Stallion, JuiceWrld, SoYoOn, Halsey, Park Ji Yoon, Supreme Boi, Nell, Max, Psy, freaking Balming Tiger (are you kidding me they are fire: subversive, edgy, so sexy), Becky G…. I Love them all so much.
Armys shouldn’t have to work this hard to explain why this felt like a boot to our huge collective Purple Heart; why Jack’s verses, persona, past collab with Chris Brown, his gross weird cheesy performative objectification of the women in the 3D video, vs JK empowering the women dancers .. why this feature was such a turn off. Hurtful even.
The contrasts are so stark.
Holding someone you love to a standard isn’t being unsupportive. It’s the opposite. If we didn’t love and care for our guys so much we’d be like whatever with this. They expect a certain ethic of conduct from us; in any worthwhile relationship that’s a two way street. I just hope Kookie understands.
Borahae. 💜🫶
I totally agree with you! 💜
Yes, Harlow's rap is hurtful to army.
I just want to say that I believe some of the criticism is valid and deserves to be heard, it's not just "haters", people getting triggered for no reason or because people want JK to stay cute and innocent forever. Also, I think it’s not for men to decide if it’s misogynistic or not. It made me feel very uncomfortable and I know I’m not the only woman who feels that way. You should acknowledge that and at least try to understand where we’re coming from. Yes, this criticism is mostly about Jack’s rap but it’s a JK song and he’s apparently ok with this message being on his song. So I do feel he’s at fault too.
Ok, so I have a few points: Jack Harlow's rap part is just not good, like he rhymed took with took, body with body and story with story??? That’s just lazy und uncreative. It’s bad even when you ignore how degrading it is. And it is degrading. I mean how he literally lined up women, sorry but WTF? Yes he's only talking about himself but he's still portraying that behavior (having sex with lots of different women and basically reducing them to sexual objects) as something cool and positive. It's not positive and I don't want to listen to that. I do think it's misogynistic and I'm not saying that lightly, I understand why other people use that word.
Apart from that, the song just seems very shallow and manufactured. The reason I like BTS so much is exactly because it's not manufactured. 3D is like the type of mainstream pop music I actively avoid, and which made me turn to BTS instead because BTS was never like this, not even the English songs. Like imagine if 3D was your first impression of him, you wouldn't be able to get a sense of an identity from him. I mean what is the message here? He likes to f*ck? Ok? That's just not that interesting, yes people like to f*ck. We know that. There's no subtlety, no nuance, no story. It's not "mature" either, more like a teenage boy bragging. And I actually like sexy music - when it’s seductive, sensual, cheeky… you know like Pied Piper or Like Crazy or Want by Taemin. But not like 3D. It doesn't really show his amazing talents in singing and dancing either. Like there is nothing in this song that sets it apart or that is new or fresh, it seems more like a pop song made by an old white dude that thinks this is what a hit sounds like. I'm genuinely disappointed.
BIG FACTS!!! 💯💯
100% yes
I 100% agree with you.
I also become a fan because of their meaningful songs and hardcore performances.
Thinking of Jungkook's talent and capability, it is really hard to believe that he is singing such type of shallow, low content songs. If his whole album is like this that will be so disappointing.
2 years ago he reignited my desire to take my music career seriously.
My opinion only, JK wants the attention and ratings and he's learned how to play the billboard game to get there. For years, people said he is the best. He has said BTS wouldn't exist if he wasn't in the group. To me, JK is acting like a bragging, do whatever i want too my fans will love me teenage boy. Most of that is the shock factor. Drink alot on Vlive, sing in English swear alot and bring in sex. Western culture at its finest. I live in the US and this is sad. I too went down the rabbit hole for their lyrics and dancing. I'm sure alot of us did. Music that mattered.
Did JK really think fans wouldnt dissect his song and look for meaning? My own opinion when the guys get back together, I really hope JK isn't a writer for their new music if this is the direction he wants to go.
@@garydemers3249 You spoke my mind. Jungkook inspired me hugely as a singer. After Backstreet boys and Bryan Adams he was the one after ages who made a huge impact on me as an amazing singer and performer. But I'm absolutely disappointed seeing his new image. I didn’t have much issue with his drinking and smoking but I couldn’t accept his shallow sexual songs, not one but two!
And yes there are millions of fans who will support him blindly even if he makes garbage music.
Unfortunately he is not inspiring me anymore with this attitude.
Most people don't have any problem with JK's part because There's nothing wrong with it.
But since Jack is saying that he has/had relationships with multiple women just for fun & excitement, people aren't liking it because he treated women like objects.
Since the song 3D is recognized with Jungkook's name as "Jungkook's 3D song" people are disappointed that Jungkook agreed to have such lyrics(only jack's part) in HIS song.
Singing about having sex with the 1 person you love is absolutely okay because it's just a normal thing but having lyrics which objectified women kinda feels wrong because JK himself is not that kind of a person but still he has such lyrics in HIS song
Technically, we don’t know that JK isn’t that kind of person. He’s one of the most famous musicians who ever lived and women and men are throwing themselves at him constantly. I mean, he’s not Gene Simmons bragging about conquests, but he’s not short on opportunities. So I think some of the fans’ discomfort with the rap part is the disconnect between how we view JK and the possibilities about his personal life that him liking Jack Harlow’s music forces us to consider. It kind of shatters an illusion . . . And I think that was a big part of this choice.
@@hannasizemore8028 I understand that we don't know JK completely but if we have followed him from a long time, watched his videos especially all of his lives, we do get to know what kind of personality he has. His personality is definitely not like in Jack harlow's lyrics. We can surely say that he's not that kind of a guy
@@staycalmandkeepworking I'm inclined to agree with you. Dude's a sweetheart, and he was raised by JHope, RM, and Suga, three of the most thoughtful and respectful humans on earth. But technically we don't know the details of his relationships, or how he navigates the conflicts of his job and his love life, which have to be intense. And even nice people can screw up. I think he's begging us not to see him as a saint. We're all so committed to that view he has to go to some extremes. 🙂
@@hannasizemore8028 He chose this song but that definitely need not be a direct representation of his personality. As an artist, he can have different reasons for choosing it. And besides many fans are enjoying this song. But that doesn't mean all of them are like that too😅
And yes JK doesn't want us to see him like a saint. He wants us to treat him like a grown man , an adult since most fans always treat him like a cute baby.
It does feel really annoying when people still treat you like an innocent baby when you're a grown adult
Wow, the one time in America when an Asian man does a video represented as a sexy symbol, some can't handle it and start calling it Misogyny and whatever else to shut it down. For decades Hollywood has belittled, ridiculed and portrayed Asian men as "effeminate" and Asian men have suffered for it in real life. Why didn't the same ranters ranting about JK's 3D call out Justin Timberlake, Usher, Justin Beiber, Backstreet Boys, George Michael's, J Balvin, Drake, etc etc for making MV's with lyrics far more scathing? Also why are you blaming an Asian man for what the white guy wrote? It's a known fact, in the music industry it's common courtesy and professional not to meddle in the other artists work when collabing. You really think JK is going to be the rude artist and tell Harlow...."Hey, we can't use that line, go back and redo it." After knowing the effort hard work and energy expended in doing their part? Come on people.......Stop being hypocritical. If you're going to criticize JungKook for something as vanilla as 3D then make sure you go on Drakes, Justin's, J Balvin's or whoever else's MVs and call them out as well.
I have zero issues with JK getting his freak on. I have issues with Harlow "putting these shrooms to good use". I mothereffing hope he's saying HE took the shrooms and not that he gave them to her for a purpose. I have a problem with calling women thots. I have a problem with JK being ok with having that word associated with him.
Truly triggered.
Same. Also have a problem this is a white guy rapping about ABGs. Asian women can call themselves that- their choice not his.
I enjoy your channel and I never comment here. But I felt I had to share my perspective on this. I’m completely fine with JK making the decision to make his music highly sexual in nature. I say go for it if that’s your thing. But your analysis of the misogynistic aspects of this song and video seemed off the mark and tone deaf. Women are 100% being objectified in this music/video. To say otherwise is being an apologist. Also the ABG reference is racist on its face and even more problematic coming from a white man who’s interacting with zero Asian women. Also, you completely left out one of the most problematic lines in your analysis - “I got you playing with yourself on camera” This is something that young women are often pressured into doing to satisfy a man’s fantasy and it is degrading. Bottom line is that JK had complete creative control here as you say, so if there’s anything in the song/video that he was in uncomfortable with, he would have changed it. So, he also has to take that responsibility. And finally, all of the reactions I’ve seen to this criticism on YT have been done by men. I don’t think most women appreciate being told how they should feel about this by a man.
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I agree. Especially since famous men can easily solicit nudes and stuff from fans and that’s just gross. Plus calling girls thots and stuff. I’m actually happy there was a lot of diversity in the video, so I don’t mind that there was no Asian girls. It’s probably Jungkook choosing who to cast, too. But yeah those rap lines were unnecessary.
oh, Jose. who am i but someone who loves watching your reactions in respect to your kindhearted, funny and thoughtful perspectives (especially re our beloved JK). howeverrrr, gotta say this: JK didn't need Harlow and his misogynistic lyrics on his song insulting JK's own female fan base. sure, JK is young, bold and absolutely should be allowed to express his true self freely, push the envelop, be his own kinda bad boy (since, you know, we trust his heart), make mistakes, find more successes, etc., and grow through his experiences as a solo artist - that is something we all look forward to. but is allowing featured artists on his songs to objectify women/ABGs acceptable? i absolutely understand that art is subjective, and believe me, i take no issue w/ more "mature" or explicit directions, per se (btw, it was very generous and thoughtful of JK to create 2 versions of Seven to include a broader range for ARMY to choose from). but this sticking point within the ARMY fan base relating to misogyny/objectifying women is merited and should never be glazed over, as it extends beyond the ARMY fan base, at the expense of those who are being covertly marginalized. the thing is, i do expect that JK knows what message he's putting out there... and that, honestly, is part of the problem. there's no question (or complaint) about JK's own ability to exude sexiness, that he * knows * how to be sexy (he sure doesn't need anyone to tell him how)! his own lyrics in 3D, for instance, are steamy in a creative, teasing, fun kind of way - in and of itself, adding even more intrigue to JK, the solo artist. it's refreshing af. but Harlow on the flip side... young or old bud, misogyny is misogyny; veiled insults trying to give the impression of some semblance of humility or appreciation are still insults. in the 3D mv, Harlow made his nuanced, yet obvi messages clear by lining up women like a meat market to cater to his clearly over-inflated ego. it was humiliating and cringeworthy to view. and labeling it something it is? Harlow objectifying "ABGs" for starters? um yeh... i'll choose to be more concerned w/ not glazing over, nor normalizing that direct object ass branding by Harlow, as he uses stories of his supposed sexual exploits to pat his fat ego on the back. just...yuck. as a long time ARMY, i know you're aware as to why BTS opted not to promote misogyny as whole, that also in doing so, they were able to attract a massive global fanbase, many of who were flatly sick of rappers self-promoting by objectifying feminine gender.
so what then is Harlow's grand contribution to JK's reputation as a grown ass man? is the presumed preference of some viewers acceptance of misogyny how JK wants to represent himself as a man? JK doesn't need to be riding on Harlow's coat tails, we all know that. i'm all about our guy being himself - and JK's parts in the video damn sure got me on my feet... until Harlow chimed in.
Q: if Harlow's lyrics were versed out to be marginally homophobic yet in stinging, direct effect, would you consider his "contribution" passively as acceptable expressions of art? i'd imagine that it may be fair to say, you might've been pretty disappointed if JK would've allowed that.
thanks for bringing up the convo✌🤟💜
💯
Couldn’t agree more with your views on this matter. I found Harlow’s contribution distasteful.
Yes yes and yes! Exactly. I think you stated this better than me but I tried !
Yes! 💯 thanks for writing this 💜
I really appreciate you asking Jose if he would consider it fun if these lyrics were demeaning to homosexuals.
There's nothing wrong with Jungkook's lyrics besides being subpar. Jack Harlow's lyrics, on the other hand, are horrendous. ABG? Seriously?? Disgusting.🤦🏽
It is a rap . That's how it goes.
@@lalazee8818Rap comes from poetry, you don’t need to be misogynistic to rap about whatever
@@MBella123 You seem to misunderstand & have it backwards, my dear. One is not necessary for the other, but in this case, JH's rap IS, IN FACT, misoginistic. ESPECIALLY towards Asian women.
@@1970Mom sorry, I think you’re confusing me. I agree with everything you said
@@1970Momyou replied to the wrong person
Who at BigHit, or should I say HYBE, is giving the ok to Jack Harlow's filthy mind and mouth. I see scooter braun's sick mind all over this. What is BigHit trying to make Jungkook into? Jungkook's part is basically good, especially the bridge. Is he in training to be a nasty, western, pop star? BTS solos - RM wrote & sang and rapped introspection, philosophical. Jin had tuna and Coldplay. Suga wrote and rapped about haters and rough times, getting through it. J-hope wrote and rapped about how important music and dance is to him. Jimin sang about being free from insecurities. V sang about love and longing. Jungkook, so far, it's just about SEX. Why is Jungkook being used like this. From what I've seen of his BTS personality, explicit sex songs aren't his thing. He's being used. All who are into KPop are aware of how companies manage their groups/ members. HYBE is not BigHit. There are other voices in play now. Jungkook, in interviews, says the right things - I selected the song, the addition of Jack Harlow made the song better, etc. He has to say those things, he's not going to slam his efforts. Remember, Jungkook is a professional and has been doing what he is told since he was 15. He knows he has to do what he has to do. Jungkook didn't write any of the lyrics, he selected the song. However, I don't believe HE actually did, I personally believe the HYBE amalgamation did. Yes, Jungkook is a grown man but from what we are aware of from his public stage persona he would not be comfortable choosing Seven and 3D, he was assigned them in order to be more popular with Western audiences. In my opinion, those that believe Jungkook would be drawn to sexually explicit songs just because he is 26 are naive. Look at the songs Jungkook actually had a hand in writing, under BigHit (not HYBE) and as an adult. Don't just go along with loving all things BTS just because they are BTS. Seven and 3D are mostly enjoyable songs but are throwaway songs. JUNGKOOK IS BEING USED! I am defending Jungkook hard because he is better than what they are giving him to sing. He deserves better than throwaway crap. If his songs continue in this vein, people will recall his solo career was just SEX, they won't remember his genuine talent.
Jose - explain away the line "I got you playing with yourself on camera". Harlow's rap was pointless to the song. In my opinion Harlow's lyrics weren't misogynistic, they were disgusting and idiotic. I also don't believe sexually explicit songs are a genre. So, when you refer to Jungkook mentioning he wants to explore musically different genres (i.e. Blues, Country, KPop, Opera, Reggae, Jazz, Pop, etc), I don't think sexually explicit songs were what he was referring or had in mind. But, like you said, everyone sees things different and have their own opinions. What I have written is my opinion.
Sry dude, your read doesn’t hold as much weight because you are a guy and have never been called a thot or ho. Also you are dismissing people’s genuine offense at ABG. JK at least has innuendo in the lyrics he selected, but JH is a mess. The great thing is we have an alt version and Jk’s voice ascends on it. I have no problem with sexual lyrics but the reason I stopped listening to American hip hop is it was always about sex, women as hoes, money, and drug. JH hit 3 of the 4, it’s just not my vibe. I like music that’s more complex, which is what we get from the fantastic writers in BTS. Jungkook’s last two songs have been very sexual and that’s awesome to help him break free of the baby identity, but I really hope his next songs have more substance and don’t fall into the traps of American music. He’s so much better than that.
To be honest I switched off your video off half way through because of the route you were taking. However I gave you the benefit of the doubt.
There is a difference between him 'being an adult' and talking about sex and the song being misogynistic.
As a man you will never fully understand the female disappointment with 'ABG's' and '1,2,3,4 and whoring'. The dictionary definition of a 'whore' is a 'female prostitute' so case said that's why many are not happy with the collab. JK can be as adult and grown up as he likes, and sex is a healthy part of being an adult but that also includes being respectful with lyrics. There is just no need for it. Take out Jack Harlow and everything is good many state. Peace out.
Of course we’ll say its GREAT. There is never, according to Army, any area where the guys can improve. May I remind you Namjoon HAD TO APOLOGIZE and got mentored on women’s matters for misogyny accusations and he recognized it and improved. Recognizing and acknowledging and correcting is greatness. You ARMY are succumbing to cult-like behavior. We’ll never be of help to the guys if we are “yes-sr”. There is NO growth there in fact there is only a repetition of the same sad story in the entertainment business. The song is catchy and enjoyable HOWEVER I thought it was misogynistic. Those two can co-exist.
Agree with you 100%.
Oh wait did you mean those two things CAN COEXIST OR NOT ?
Thank you for saying this. I wonder if this perspective will ever get through.
God forbid u say the obvious🙄 it's so ridiculous how far army are willing to go,even to the point of absolutely degrading other ppl, for being rightfully concerned!! Armys(most) are now bcming a mockery bc of how downbad they r...tbh, it just feels like nowadays,it's all about sexualizing and thirsting over the members... nothing wrong w that...but r we really fans if that's all we care Abt..and not voicing our honest opinions??smh
@@min3Allmin3 Exactly my thoughts! Other fandoms make fun of Army cause they literally worship anything and everything that the boys do. THAT'S NOT HOW IT SHOULD BE. We should call out things that are problematic, and this certainly is. I felt very humiliated and ashamed as a woman because of Harlow's verse, and it made me really sad that JK went along with it. I also feel sad that when I expressed my concern and said that I am uncomfortable, others came at me saying that I'm a ,,hater". I feel so isolated and alone because of this.
What I find funny? Ironic? Hypocritical?, is most Armys go hard at the Andrew Tate's of the world, but find this song "the bomb" "the best" "fire " "jk isn't a baby anymore", when the song is filled with lyrics like 1 girl is too boring so JH has to keep adding the girls to satisfy him, showing his girls body off to all the homies , having her video taping herself for him. Alllllllll because JK is on the song. Ha, I guess it's not the message people have a problem with, just if it's a certain messenger
👏👏👏
Btw, when we talk about hate against women, it doesn’t mean only saying explicit things. There are many ways of being misogynistic so please, if you’re gonna talk about something you’re not familiar with, do some research, don’t only take the meaning of the word and try to tell others how they should feel.
We live in a patriarchal society that hates women, once you learn about the layers of misogyny and sexism, you understand the it’s much bigger of a deal than what you imagined
You decided to defend Jack Harlow’s lyrics after the quickest google search that did not explain the scope of misogyny.
I have no problem with sexual content and do not expect Jung Kook to behave as a child. I remember what’s tasty in Busan. 😂
I believe we should be allowed to respectfully speak out when we don’t think something is right without being attacked or told we don’t support them.
As much as I enjoyed joking about being in a cult during the Fake Love era, I will not just blindly fall in line. I love every member of BTS and will continue to do so.
I wasn't LOOKING for fault. I know JH by face/name/achievements only so I was expecting good/big things. But that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to disapprove of something I heard lest I lose my ARMY card. I'm not about blind devotion. I'm about being a conscientious consumer. Now, just because I've engaged in conversations about it, don't mistake my feelings as "outrage." Tbh, I'm more disappointed in non-Asian ARMYs dismissing another's pov just because it's not 100% glowing approval for our faves. That's actually making more upset than the lyrics itself did.
1000% agree with this. ARMY is not a cult.
Am actually clocked off of Twitter and TikTok bc of this!! It's so embarrassing that even army's are now praising JH..saying he ATE...ate what omg??😭 the d*ckriding (sorry couldn't think of a better word) is so REAL😒
I am conflicted. I am ARMY and OT7. Are we meant to blindly follow and support if it goes against our beliefs. Everyone is free to have an opinion. Jack Harlows lyrics are misogynistic and objectifies women. Unnecessary in this song. JK has never come across as such and doubt he is like this. In his pursuit of being 'grown', him or Hybe are not making the right choices. He is a worldwide star and that carries great responsibility. People look up to him and want to emulate him. BTS has always displayed the Korean culture , showed respect, inclusion and fairness. People that have a different opinion are not haters. I will listen to the alternative version. Wishing JK the best 💜
💯
Jungkook is a grown man. Hybe is not making any choices. This is jungkook solo. Music is music. Stop making it something that it's not.
If you’re going to have an opinion, hold them both accountable. JK’s lyrics are just as objectifying as Jack’s. That being said, it’s your choice to be offended but let the rest of us enjoy it without being a prude Karen.
@@InsertHereKThxwhy the name calling?
It's clearly not safe to talk about anything that deviates from "just keep streaming" and I find it very sad.
I'm not angry at JK for the song. Nor am I going to make excuses for him. Jack Harlow's lines were cringy and lame. There was no finesse. The lyrics weren't misogynistic but definitely objectified women. It wasn't a good call to have those lines on there. JK gave his stamp of approval on those lyrics and I hope people don't try to excuse his adult decision to keep them. He made a bad call, IMO. Fans have a right to dislike the song. But just because I don't like the song and will not be playing the song again does not mean I do not support Jungkook.
I'll continue to support him as an artist. I'm not always going to enjoy every song he releases.
I dont mind JK’s part, it’s a bop. But Harlow’s? Im sorry, it’s just cringe. No beat, the rap is mediocre and the lyrics too. That’s why i prefer the ALT version. Harlow is certainly not misogynistic, but as a woman who grew up in the capital of reguetón, the rap is just bad and cringe 💀
But kookie? He can keep doing what he’s doing. Just wish he would lower the features. But gotta respect his decisions in the end.
I love JK, but this song was way more basic than what the BTS universe has gotten us spoiled to having. Also, Jack Harlow was totally unnecessary. Not only was his rap embarrassing, when there are tons of other rappers that could have added to this track. Jack’s ending was weird. Why was Jack the last voice? We heard Jack’s weak rap as the ending of the song . JK should have ended his own song. Hopefully there is a no rap version that can come out.
I think we can agree to disagree on this one Jose, and it's ok! Ok, so this is going to be a long one:
Is JK a grown man who can sing about whatever he wants? Yes, he absolutely is!
Do I like JH's rap in this song? No, I really do find it objectifying to women, and I'm sick and tired of that, in any kind of media. And for those asking in the comments "why nobody says anything when other artists do it?", sorry but you don't know about everyone's individual experience with music or life journey. Personally I don't listen and will never listen to latin music (reggaeton for instance) that does exactly that, objectify and degrade women. One of the million reasons I became an ARMY is because I found a different kind of content in their music, that diverted from the content that constantly surrounds me. BTS are socially conscious, never afraid to comment on injustice and the struggles of youth.
All this being said... I love JK, with all my heart. I will forever be grateful to him and the members of BTS for everything they do for us, their love, their passion and hard work!
Does my opinion on 3D means I'm not going to support JK anymore? OF COURSE NOT, I will never, ever stop supporting him. It's just that this specific song is not my cup of tea, that's it. And me and every ARMY out there has every right to express ourselves. Instead of acting like fanatics trying to bash every opinion we disagree with, we can open important discussions and speak ourselves (Joonie, I learned well) like adults that we (a lot of us) are.
Does my opinion on 3D changes that you reading this like this song and will fully support it and support JK till the end of time? Absolutely not! You do you! And I respect you and love you as a fellow ARMY for it.
I'm just sick and tired of expressing an opinion only to encounter a not so big, but loud side of ARMY trying to bash everyone else in social media they don't agree with. It happened to a lot of us when we said that WAB the eternal and Yet to come felt somewhat of "goodbye-for-now-songs" and it's happening now. Just live and let live, people!
💜
I feel Exactly the same. - very well said! Love JK endlessly and I actually love the song - it’s hot ! Except for the rap for exactly the same reasons. I don’t like it in the American music world and I don’t like it mixing with JK’s sexy as hell song. And my feelings about that are deeply connected with why I am ARMY in the first place. I think you and I understand something that may be some other people don’t so I just want to say that I see you.
I AM WITH YOU IN THIS NOT MY FAVOR SONG OF JK AND I ABSOLUTLY DISLAKE THE RAP PART BUT BTS ARE MY ONLY FAVORITE GROUP AND I LOVE JK THIS SONG WONT STOP ME FOR SUPPORT HIM
Misogynistic. I’m not wrong and don’t tell us we have it wrong. I have no problem with JK or him singing sexual lyrics. The music itself is good. Having especially Jack Harlow objectifying females in the lyrics/mv is not okay. I’m not blaming Jungkook. He is a man. And so is Jack Harlow. Yet there’s nothing wrong with cringing at this new song.. Seven was a song and mv with A WOMAN. Not with many women, as in the new mv and lyrics and calling the multiples as if objects. Not okay.
Quit telling us we are wrong and don’t understand. I don’t think most males would understand. My opinion. Just like you have yours.
Black female armys are trynna tell y'all so are the black owned jack Harlow fb accounts who are breaking down his lyrics THEY ARE NOT MISOGYNISTIC get a grip woman
Preach!!
Let’s not forget JK is not that bunny anymore. He’s 26 years old and he said he wanted to try all genres of music that will fit his voice so I’m all for it. I’m 68 y o Army here to support him whatever ever he chooses he’s a grown ass man. This is nothing compared to lyrics of western artists. Thank you for the time explaining it. You’re a one true army that I followed. You made me happy every time you reacted to JK because he’s my bias. Let’s support him for the album that’s coming soon. 💜💜💜
I think JK didn't need another artist featured on this song because he sounded so good and his lyrics were nothing vulgar. I loved the sound and style of this song, but I was turned off by JH's part only. JK did his part with style and I support JK. I was not a fan of JH part. I prefer the alternate version of JK only.
Jungkook is going through his Disney kid rebellion phase. Let the man live! It’s a hot song. Giving this slightly older woman Justin Timberlake vibes. I’m into it! 💜💜💜
Also… I have a 7yr old son who LOVES Jungkook. i took him to GMA, to Global Citizens. I don’t let him listen to the explicit versions. It’s actually that simple 🤷🏻♀️ I grew up listing to Madonna and I think I turned out ok. 😝 and Jk knows EVERYTHING. To think anything else is just silly and ignorant. Rant over. 💜💜💜
I hope it’s not a rebellion, but permanent!
@@ATLG1RL727 I hope he always trusts his gut and lives his truth. Whatever that is. I’ll be here for it 😊❤️🔥💜
I was thinking the exact same thing! Started with the tats and piercings. Now he's smoking and singing about sex. He's a little late bloomer with his maturity and now he's trying to make up for lost time and getting it out of his system. I hope he's getting it in and isn't just singing about it. He'll settle down in his 30's which I think was always his plan. Whatever it is, I'm here for it!
I m really glad there r matured and sensible armies too who understands what and who he is and enjoy the song as it is rather than making a big deal out of it. I
BTS practically got cancelled for 'War of Hormones' it is so mild in relation to this song 3D.
You should research more about some of the terms in the rap part.
ABS is Asian Baby Girl but apparently it is a derogatory term of calling Asian girls sluts & most Asian girls say they do not like being called this. It seems to be the the Asian equivalent of the N-word for black people.
There is another term used at the end of the song "Thots" which means "That hoe over there".
Also the way he's lining the girls up in the video looked like a cattle call for the privilege of their having sex with him it looked degrading to me. Kind of humilliating there waiting for their turn like a pro. or something.
Of course next you will say Jungkook didn't sing those words etc...
No but it's his song & he allowed those words & visual images into his video therefore he's as much responsible as the one singing the rap.
Some get away with murder in this fandom they smoke, drink excessively, have a misogynistic song etc...nothing happens excuses are made all round.
Any other member just for breathing gets cancelled.
Geez double standards,
much.
I guess RM's promise after WOH didn't extend to solo work.
Well I guess everyone will just block all that 💩 out & just keep streaming. MUST get that record MUST get thst sucker to Number ONE no matter what!!!🫤
Vamos HDP!!! don't stop till we get to the top, right??
Forget principles they don’t apply here.
Well good luck with that you'all.
BTW love the OT1 content on the channel keep it up.👎
Yea you can tell who his bais is.
@@jilll1287 Really Sherlock!!!
You can also tell your bias not to mention this channel.
Respectfully, a song about sex, especially couched in euphemisms, is fine. However, JH’s rap was misogynistic.
Jose I've enjoyed and appreciated your channel for years. Usually when there's some kind of drama I can expect you to be a voice of reason. But in this case I don't feel the same as you. I love JK and want to support him and I enjoy his parts of the song. JK is absolutely an adult and can talk about sex, that's not the issue for me at least. As many have said, the issue a lot of people have isn't with his parts but with JH's rap. The lyrics and the MV at those parts made me sick to my stomach and absolutely were demeaning to women. I've seen a lot of people ignoring/glossing over that. And I've seen a lot of people being attacked for speaking up about this, it's just been really disappointing.
1000%
Jungkook has been my musical inspiration for a while. But after seeing Seven and 3D, I don't know what he is trying to prove about himself. To prove himself as an adult, it's not necessary to sing sexual and vulgar songs. Seven was vulgar but not way too much like 3D.
He is exceptionally gifted as a singer, but I guess he is more focused to fit in current American music trend and top the charts. Though I believe he can still top the charts without vulgar songs.
I felt dissappointed as a fan after listening to 3D. He may look cool to the younger generation but this type of music can't be his standard.
I hope he realizes it and do more meaningful and deep music in the future.
How is this song or 7 vulgar? If that's the case, you shouldn't listen to 90% of the songs out there. Especially Western pop and you definitely can't listen to a single Hip Hop track if what JungKood said in Seven (especially the original version) or 3D is supposedly "vulgar," to you.
Thank you Jose you took the right words out of my mouth! BTS are grown men let them be and let them make their choices in life and music. Jose keep up the good work, bora hae
I agree with Jose in every point except one: Jack Harlow's lyrics ARE misogynistic, especially in the context of the way they are performed, and not just the words on the page. As a woman with some experience of the world, the vibes do not check out.
Jose, you are correct. Jungkook is a grown man. So he should be held accountable for releasing this song, with his name on it, as is. This is not a Jack Harlow song featuring JK, it's a Jungkook song featuring Harlow. Jungkook's silence on this has been deafening. I don't want to believe that he agrees with Jack's verse, especially since his part is so fun and playful and respectful (everything that we would expect from JK). Did he agree to this? Is this a publicity stunt?
Again You spoke my heart out Jose!! Purple you! I was so sad that people were commenting negatively about the song! Thank you so much Jose for pointing out everything positively 💜
I think the song will be more popular than seven. It really accents his voice range and quality and his awesome dance skills! The song beat and chorus is one of those you wanna to vibe with. I’m 77 and love BTS as well as rock, soul, etc. I don’t see anything suggestive in Jungkook’s lyrics, but JH does have some words in his rap that are explicit. Not as much as seven, though. Hopefully people will listen to the clean version if they are offended by the explicit one. I believe the video is well done, and ai do like the song.
@@2tbos who cares about explicit words, after seven I’m desensitized - but it’s the context and visuals and whatever creepy stuff the rap as about not JK’s part or a curse word.
@Malihashorma7156....Ehhhh, don't mind these perpetual whiners. Most aren't even BTS fans, they're other fandoms looking for the smallest of non issues to raise their ugly heads in judgmental hate. These are the typical haters/losers looking for an excuse. If JKs 3D is Mysoginistic then they should be on just about every Western artists backs calling them out for lyrics far more Mysoginistic and Misandry (objectifying and hating men). But as soon as an Asian man is seen with a few women in a sensual manner these same discriminating hypocrites who loudly applaud people like Sam Smith, Eminem, Bruno Mars, Taylor Swift (listen to Blank Space), etc attack JungKook. Lol at the hypocrisy of these ridiculous prejudiced people.
@@2tbosLady, champagne confetti means female ejaculation 😂
How is there anything explicit in the song?!
Personally, I don’t understand JK desire to sing these juvenile songs. He isn’t a teenager anymore.
@@iraidushka woman get a grip😭you have kids to feed and probably read shipping smut you're so mad about young men singing about fucking get lost
I’m not sure why Jungkook all of sudden seems to find vulgarity necessary. He has so much talent, show a bit of class.
While I see where you're going with this he's also a grown man, he seems to want to show that he's not innocent and a grown up so fans can stop babying him..he's also playing into the western market in which artists are more sexually open and it sells and gets promoted more.
Jungkook's lyrics are pushing the boundaries a bit - BUT it just makes the song super sexy! I didn't like Jack Harlow's part... His lyrics and having those women all lined up -- I didn't like it. And that's my personal opinion. I like Jack Harlow... usually. I've seen some ARMY get super jumped on & called "haters" if someone doesn't agree with their own opinion. This is NOT what BTS would want from ARMY...
@@kaylalezine2295firstly, what's wrong with being innocent?
And second, you don't have to show vulgarity to show you're grown up. Is abusing, throwing f bombs, collaborating with misogynistic and racist artists maturity? Objectifying women maturity?
Is smoking cigarettes to harm his own health + others health maturity??
Maturity is when you realise these things actually make you mentally immature not mature.
@ADITYASHARMA-im2qo firstly, jack isn't racist firstly of you're gonna go on the abg rant an Asian girl literally posted a video of her teaching him what it meant way before 3D came out. Also the verse isn't misogynistic in itself he's literally saying he used to be a man whore and now he's obsessed with one girl and only wants her. Secondly
Jungkook has stated hundreds of times he is a grown up he's tired of the innocent image and babying he gets from most non western fans. He's expressed it so many times he started off just drinking and cussing on live. People continued to infantilize him. If he wants to go on a sexual journey and write music about it that's fine.
@ADITYASHARMA-im2qo also you proved my point in your comment. You're parasocial. That grown man no matter if it's detrimental to his health or not can make that decision on his own. Not because a bunch of people who don't personally know him pressure him into acting an image. Why do you think dude needs a stress release substance? He hasn't been allowed to live a normal life for most of his life this is his way of reclaiming his image and life outside of the kpop world where everything even looking at a female idol now is taboo.
Though still you have to respect other fans opinions too. They became Army first off because of BTS clean lyrics. JK might go this direction but dont expect other armys to just accept and embrace what he is singing and doing. I know ill have hate comments but we need to be tolerant and accepting each others opinions.
I am 71 years old and with all due respect, I think that no matter how old someone is “words matter” and I totally don’t like cursing or naughty words, but I do respect people’s opinions and chooses and I’ll leave it at that.
I wouldn't use the word misogynist but there was objectification and sugar daddyness in harlow's lyrics.
I am a Jungkook fan. I am streaming 3D on YT and Spotify since its release. I am proud of Jungkook for breaking out of the baby-of-the-group image. 3D is an awesome song and Jungkook's vocals shine even more than Seven, especially in the post-chorus part of the song. Jungkook dance is confident and vocals chef's kiss 🤌. I am also glad to see JK collab and experiment with artists outside his usual circle.
I am grown up (& older than JK) so I found his sexual innuendos to be clever. I enjoyed that. I do not have a problem with either JK or even harlow talking about sex. But there are phrases in harlow's part that are lame, desperate and also change the context of the song. There is objectification and sugar daddy vibes.
1) "When I seen that body you would think it was a dead body. The way I told my boys come look" this paints an uncomfortable context of someone lifeless and harlow telling his boys to come look.
2) "I used to take girls up to Stony Brook
And steal they hearts like some crook" some bragging vibes about stealing hearts. Again I wish harlow talked about sex only. Rather than painting contexts that make him look bad. Steal they hearts like some crook. He thinks he is sounding cool doing it, but no. This is an old cliche of treating people like objects and playing with them.
3) The whole "one girl, two girl..." part is where harlow sinks the song. harlow can talk about sex all he wants but his contexts are a huge problem. And in this part Drew Kirsch did not help his case. He literally showed girls stacking behind harlow like objects on a shelf. All the girls in this rap part of harlow looked like lifeless girls who existed like objects standing in a line.
4) "I got you playing with yourself on camera" and "I just wanna meet you in the physical and see if you would touch me". These lyrics are simply so lame. They sound like written by a desperate person online rather than a professional songwriter.
5) "And as for thots". Thots is the new slang for sluts. It is used in an offensive way.
Other than these, the whole ABGs line as well. Like there are enough problems with harlow's lyrics and he does disturb the vibe of the song that Jungkook had so beautifully created. Jungkook's parts were talking about sex but were not painting weird contexts. harlow did that bringing objectification, desperation and sugar daddyness in the song.
I am glad Jungkook/Hybe were sensible enough to have an alternate version completely erasing harlow. The alt version is not changing a few words but literally just rid of the root of the problem (i.e. harlow). I am proud of JK/Hybe for making that decision. I think with time, the alt version will get more plays. Thankfully dance practice video has that too, so any live performances should as well.
Jungkook you are doing amazing! Keep slaying with your vocals and dance moves! 🫶
Jose, I understand what you are saying about his age, I accept all that, but the rap lyrics are offensive. Once again the American music industry takes a beautiful person, voice, character, and makes them sell sex. JK is sexy, he doesn't need this or he would've written it himself. He can do what he wants but I'm sure when he heard it there were no rap lines. Let's not forget how they had their lyrics read by a female professor to not offend women or degrade them - so when did that change even if he is grownup. I was ill from the rap lyrics. I love JK - nothing has changed there, but why does he have to fit hollywood the most evil entity or what the music industry here is trying to do. I hope he will guard his heart and not follow the CLONES , but be a different pop musician with caring values for himself and sharing thoughts in his written music. JK does not have to sell himself so hard with these kind of lyrics, even he couldn't say them but had someone else rap lines. Also, I wish they wouldn't do so many collabs... don't they know how powerful they are individually? Taehyung does! Thanks for being kind. I am just stunned, I expected grown up topics of interest but this is... ugh! Out of luck on this one.
I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who found Jack's lyrics so corny, especially towards the end...
Look, he's not the worst rapper, but his verse was not his best at all, and his "ABG" line was straight up derogatory...
my personal opinion, I don’t like the lyrics Harlow sings. They are misogynistic. Period. I don’t like Cardi B or her WAP. It is vulgar. But this is the “art” they are pushing right now and I can see JK getting wrapped up in it and wanting to express himself. I’m disappointed in his choices. You’d never catch Jin singing a song like this. He is too classy. Since my rule is that if I can’t play a song in front of my teen girls then I won’t buy it then I’ll have to pass. This will be the only member song I don’t have in my collection.
Agreed. I love BTS, but...
I am not going to like every single song that members of BTS put out.
I will like a song because it's creative, has a great melody, is catchy, is deep, etc.
I will never like a song just because of who is singing it.
I didn't like 'Seven', & I don't like '3D'.
To each their own!
There is an alternate version without Jack.. get that one
You have a very limited understanding of the meaning of “misogyny”
I’m glad for you that a young man speaking about his womanising bad habits, and asking to have casual sex with consent, it is what you understand as misogyny. What beautiful candied world you live in.
@@delasmercedes2940the rap took away from the fun sexy vibe of JK and his lyrics. It’s like “ weee yay JK IS SO HOT, oooh sexy dance and lyrics… yummy” then BAM down to the gutter we go with talking about showing your friends I’m not sure what but he said something about a dead body then was ticking off all the women he gets and maybe said something about ABGs which I had to look up and thought should we be talking about these misguided young Asian women, etc etc It just creeped me out. I just want to see sexy JK dancing and singing so beautifully about lovely sex.
I enjoyed the song but I must admit I did not like the rap, that is probably because it’s not my taste so I will get the alternative version. I have never been a huge rap fan but love BTS rap songs because they have great meanings and messages and musicality. I personally do not like the direction of the explicitness that some music is going because it excludes a huge amount of audience or should do. Personally (it’s just my opinion everyone’s entitled to their own) the world would be a better place if our youth was not exposed to all this explicit language and content at such a young age, but it’s played on the radio and on music shows and lauded and awarded so what chance to they have. They do not have a chance to grow up like they should as they are thrown into adulthood to early. At least Jungkook has the sense to bring out two versions so parents can at least allow them the other version. I think one of the reasons BTS has had great popularity is because they chose not to go down this path, but if Jung kook has chosen to do so, that is his choice but I hope his album has a little more variety expressing the brilliance of his singing.
JH lyrics were misogynistic for me. I did like the 2000's vibes of the song. As an Asian person the reference of ABG...was cringe. The song, the beat was good...but I just I wasn't into the rap. Because we are Army doesn't mean we have to like everything they put out.. This is not a cult. Lol. Some Army will tell you are not Army for not loving everything and buying everything! 😮 if it's not you cup of tea. It's ok. Life goes on. I still love BTS. Music also opens up discussion. Awesome explanation video Jose!!
I am very much OT7 and support each and every member. I'm streaming Seven and 3D and buying anything JK has to offer. But . . . and this is very much a matter of personal taste - I really didn't much care for Seven, although it's somewhat of a bop, and I really didn't like 3D. Both songs are very generic American pop, nothing much special there, and I really didn't care for either Latto's or Jack's rap - not because of the sex or purported misogyny, but just because I didn't think the raps were very good. BTW, I don't think this has anything to do with Hybe/BH - I think these songs completely reflect JK's personal choices and freedom to do what he wants as a soloist.
I had expected a lot more from JK but perhaps this is exactly what he wants to do - in which case more power to him. I just don't think either song is very strong, nor that either song displays his unique power and skills.
Same here.
I do think he can shine much brighter than this,but will support him.I'm playing the alternative version because I find Jack's lone objectifying and misogynistic.
Agreed, well said. 👍
It’s what JK said on his interview. He is challenge himself with different music genres. What he can do with voice so he will experience here and there. Some will like his song and some might don’t but it’s total ok. As long as he willing to try, I’m here to support him.
Agreeeed
Wow! I'm disappointed that you support jack-ass jack and his misogynistic rap....Do not get me wrong! I love this new sexy JK and his talk of fucking 7 days a week! As an Asian American, I need someone like JK to represent ME!!! JK in chapter 2 is hardcore, strong, and sexual! I NEED this hardcore JK because the media always portray us as weak, nerds, punchline or the butt of the joke! Please understand the different in JK lyrics vs jack's rap!!!!!!
Hi
My only problem with the song is the phrase that jack harlows use in "All my ABGs get cute for me"
He is talking about Asian Baby girls and right after put a cute in the same phrase, like as an yellow person I know how people have fetishist with the aegyeo that the girls do in anime or even in real life, and when I heard that part I felt like listening to someone with a fetishist in this kind of thing in an Asian girl, and I felt strange about it (and mad)! And the MV doesn't have any Asian girl, and the way that he is showing the girls in MV it looks like they are an object like wtf????
Anyway I still have the stream on (no listening to the song but it's on) and the only thing that make me fell a little bit sad with jungkook was to let jack put this part in the song (that was totally unnecessary)
The problem wasn't to talk about sex in the song, seven was about it but in a total different way, he doesn't need to make an alternative version for that for a reason...
Anyway I felt really frustrated to fell that way in a song of Asian person, that my only problem, the abbreviation and the cute for me in the same phrase
Thanks for the conversation, think Harlow's rap lyrics/assessment generally speaking of a man's woman getting skills is overblown. It is dismissive of a woman's ability to see that man's flaws-inflated ego and remove themselves from his orbit. Don't know why JungKook would involve himself with Harlow's lyrics. Not sexy, but, small minded. Sad that an artist has to diminish women to make himself feel musically viable. The women in the white t-shirts are being promoted as lacking power, the Harlow character has it all.
Controversy sells. S3x sells. It’s the same tired formula for me while random women in the mv are lined up to adore this rapper. Nah.
I think the problem was Jack Harlow. JK was consistent in 7 and in 3D, always respectful and intimate. Like, he wants to get to it but in a very good natured way. Jack on the other hand, man, wtf dude. Just wtf. I was kinda exited because JK is leaning heavily into the boyfriend material bad boi soft boi aesthetic and Jack is the American boyfriend right now. So I thought it was brilliant, really a good move.
JK was like "my love is deeper than the ocean" "if you ready and if you let me" . The man's committed. And Jack was like, you not enough baby I'll have 3 other more on the side. And I just don't like that vibe
I wonder are Tayor Swift, Madonna, Niki Minaj, Ariana Grande, Cardi B, etc etc, always "respectful" of men in their lyrics? Come on people let's stop the hypocrisy.
it's so funny to see how Jack's lyrics are contradicting Jk's verses
I notice that he didn't talk about the part of Jack Harlow's lyrics where he compares seeing a particular woman naked to the trauma of someone seeing a dead body as if seeing this woman naked had traumatized him. Maybe, he omitted talking about this part of the lyrics because I don't know how anyone can justify that line in Jack's lyrics.
I totally support JK and his adventures in music. All the boys have done amazing solo work. I'm just having to adjust to the fact that I can't play a lot of their new music in my car any more when I pick up my granddaughters from school!
💜💜💜💜💜💜💜
There are clean versions to his songs. And they are not “boys” anymore. They have been men for a while now with dreams and desires.
@@ATLG1RL727I completely understand and agree with you. BTS aren’t boys anymore. But maybe SiennaFlower was using that term because she’s older than them.
I know you’re desperately trying to defend the collab but it’s pretty undefendable. It’s a choice his management has made for him because it makes JK’s reach much wider in the US - that’s why they chose Latto too! In his defence, I don’t think JK’s made these choices on his own. HYBE US have decided that JK of all the BTS group has the potential to become huge in the US market and that’s fine. His fans think he could have done this on his own without the collabs but his management (SB and Co) know the industry inside out and they are promoting this profile of him with a vengeance. So, good luck to him. I prefer the music without the collaborations but the US market is what it is and it’s pretty much hard core these days so if you want to jump into it, that’s probably what you have to do. I would expect more of the same with the album theme. Many of his fans will still be quite young, I guess, and they may not fully understand the lyrics but I’m sure JK does. They’ve started down that road so why would they tone it down now. It will be huge I’m sure but not for my taste sadly…
same
The fact that the world at large has become so immune to songs that objectify women should be concerning in and of itself. Most of us became Army / K-pop fans because it was something vastly different to the general trashy stuff that's put out. Now we see that Bts are being sucked into this world, and not all members are able to resist it. I am still gonna support Jungkook and his endeavors, but it's obvious that he hasn't found his music color/identity yet. He's imitating the pop sound that's been used for decades, and only putting his voice onto it. If he wants to do it like this, then I can't stop him, but it doesn't mean that I enjoy literally everything he does. I am not gonna let myself be gaslighted or guilt-tripped, because I have my own preferences, and Jk's music so far doesn't fit them. Simple as that. I didn't like Seven, & I don't like 3D mainly because of the random, unknown ,,artists" that chase clout by leeching off of Jk. I just hope this trend doesn't last too long, and our maknae will show us sth that's uniquely him. Peace and love, APOBANGPO. 💜
I am glad Jungkook is doing his thing and expressing himself as he wants to. I love all the guys and I’ll continue supporting them. The direction that Jungkook is taking is obviously one that he wants and some armies will like it and some won’t. I’m not a fan of Jack Harlow and this song doesn’t really hit me in a positive way, but that’s my opinion.
I think it's important to not just automatically dismiss the voice of women when we sense misogyny or feel objectified and bring it up. Specially when young women are a huge part of the BTS fandom. This isn't really against JK, we are all fans of JK. Just because we don’t agree with everything he or BTS puts out there, doesn’t mean we are haters, or that we are wrong. We are allowed to be disappointed by any form of art that is put out there. And every piece of work that is put out there is subject to the opinion of those who consume it. Shouldn’t this be a good teaching moment for young girls? It is also dangerous to just imply that it’s the sexuality of the song that some of us are against. This plays to the anti femist rhetoric of if you don’t ascribe to sex under the norms of the patriarchy then you must be anti sex. Sex is great. God bless sex! It’s part of being human.
The lyrics of the main song sung by JK actually may be not offensive, it even mentions/implies consent. The contention I think is Jack Harlow’s parts. Yes, this also on brand from Jack’s other works, that shouldn’t also automatically be dismissed. There are some offensive works of art out there that can be deemed “good,” or at least worthy of a discussion. But just shooting it down, specially that you don’t seem to be a woman or identify as such (correct me if I’m wrong with this, I admit that I know very little of you personally) is just wrong. This feels a little like gaslighting.
As a person from the LGBTQIA+ community, I was expecting you to be more empathetic and open to the views of women and those who identify as women. I understand that it's probably your job to only say good things about BTS, but maybe tow the line somewhere. Generate a discussion. Don't just dismiss.
I really dont care ppl not liking the song, JK is matured now 26 yo and I accept his judgement about his music. Love him for being himself and happy on his accomplishments period!
Yes!!
So happy for him, he is killing it! I love the song and will listen to it a lot, just don’t feel
Comfortable with the rap It’s a woman thing!
I am not bothered at ALL that it is sexual or explicit. I am 😢 that after all the growth and study that Namjoon went through to respect and lift up women, JK puts this into the world. It’s nothing but immature, careless, and thoughtless. 💔 Please consider this perspective, Jose. I hope you are open to changing your mind.
Namjoon isn’t perfect either 😅 He’s very woke and anti-religious but also talked about every ethnicity of girl before in his own songs, not different than what happened in 3D.
@@Angel_Auraa Totally agree with you.
@@Angel_AuraaA Did you mean about 'War of Hormones' song.But he apologized for it and the 'Bad Religion' controversy, he didn't do anything wrong.
Give us a break, people. Jungkook is a performer, and he does it very well. Let's not confuse what he is in this. As for the younger armies, let the parents worry about that. Jungkook is a kind, considerate, and gentleman as always. Let's keep this in mind and remember that he is a grown-up sexy man who is a very talented.
I agree with that 100%
It’s unrealistic to think that as a consumer of music one will like and/or love everything an artist releases. No different than everyone doesn’t like every type of food. Personal choices are just that “personal” choices.
I'm proud of this young man staying true to himself💯🇺🇸
HI Jose, I agree JK is a grown man and can sing any song that he wants. I get that. It doesn't bother me if the songs are more sexualised than we are used to from him. I am a 52 year old Army and am unfazed by that sort of thing. I really wanted to like both Seven and 3D. They are ok but haven't really blown me away. It does not mean that I will not continue to support JK or his music.
Okay. We are all not going to agree, but we should LISTEN to why people feel offended. We all have our own stories.
Jose, are you telling women should feel a certain way? If a women found some of the imagery or words offensive we shouldn’t have to explain ourselves. Especially to a man.
There is room for healthy discourse and army isn’t a monolith.
I’m not telling women to feel a certain way. You don’t have to explain yourself to me either. I’m simply explaining why the rap part is not misogynistic. I can’t change your mind nor do I want to. Words carry weight and labeling it as such is wrong in my opinion. But if people dislike it, that’s also fine. I’m only explaining my point of view.
@@JoseOchoaTVand btw, the song isn’t misogynistic. BUT if does objectify, women. This is why I don’t listen to western music.
@@JoseOchoaTVhowever you do not have the lived experience of a woman. We live in a world designed by and for men. We have our stories to tell. Don't dismiss our feelings of disgust and discomfort by simply erasing our voices. Just because misogyny is normalized doesn't make it alright. And as you said words carry meaning and so do jack's lyrics.
@@JoseOchoaTVYou don’t have the right to tell women what is misogyny or not, Jose. Like I don’t have the right to tell you what is homophobia being a straight woman myself. I can’t speak on something I don’t live. I can use my voice to support the LGBQIAP+ community but NEVER to speak on their behalf since I’m straight
Ok guys I think this debate is getting a little out of hand. Listen I don’t like the rap lyrics either as a woman, but why are we all taking it out on Jose? He didn’t write the song. All he did was post a reaction to a music video which he always does and comments blew up on the original post and he made this video to share his feelings and to try and help. It’s his opinion and that’s ok. Just like my opinion is ok and so is yours. We all matter and count. But arguing with Jose on this is not right. I do not think Jose is trying to insult women with this video at all. We are all ARMY and we shouldn’t be acting this way towards each other.
Not to be controversial, it's not that I have a problem with these type of songs (7 and 3D)..it's just so superficial. One thing I loved about BTS was their raw/relatable Lyrics. BTS was talking about real life that anybody of all ages could relate.. instead of "sex, drugs, alcohol ". Even though the sound would be POP or electric, they still said something more meaningful. Even in their past solos "winter bear" , "Promise" . I wanted to see diff sounds from the boys, but not really interested in this "sex, drugs, and alcohol" songs.
I think that’s the point, though. This isn’t BTS . It’s not supposed to look or feel like a BTS song. What would be the purpose of solo work and individual artistic growth if it looked the same as what they’ve done as a group.? This is Jeon Jungkook the solo artist and what he has done / is doing is good and shouldn’t be compared to what BTS has done.
@angiemitchell8059 although I agree, however I was meaning that what I LIKED about BTS was they were not like any other group who just made superficial/meaningless music. Their music had messages and substance. The other solo projects like jhope for example had a completely different sound than BTS but most of the songs still had substance.
I am just bummed that they call that one beautiful young woman boring.