Great video guys! I loved the mention of Psychohistory and the brief discussion at the end concerning the ethics of futuristic tech! Keep up the good work!
I know neither of you are fans of comments sections, but I want to say how much I adored this episode. I love your guys' discussions and I can't thank you enough for how much I learn from your stream over others.
I have to say, I love the comment about building a truck. Modern industry is so taken for granted that even most Science Fiction works forget about it. It takes a LOT of infrastructure to built the things we have today, and it takes a lot of work to get that infrastructure, so you have to figure something else out. Sure a colony operation would be stupid not to come with an extremely well equipped machine shop that can build anything, but that's still a long way from mass production. I love how Alan Steele's Coyote Series touches upon this. They came with all sorts of fancy stuff, and follow-up colony ships brought more technology, but after decades, you still have roads shared by high tech hovercars and low tech wagons since the wagons can be easily created with simple tools and wood and still work just fine for hauling things.
Since you mentioned the voice actors’ accents, it’s good to mention that the developers of Alpha Centauri went out of their way to find actors who were native speakers of the language / nationality being represented (Russian, Chinese, Indian English, African English, etc.) … with the only possible error being Deidre Skye, whose name and in-game background is Scottish but whose accent sounds more Irish.
If you liked the world of Alpha Centauri but perhaps wished for updated gameplay, there's the Planetfall Mod for Civilization IV, which does a few interesting things. Sadly, there's a few things from AC that dont' quite translate, the big one being terraforming... they could't find a way to do elevation changes and how they influence climate, but everything else works quite well. They even did a few new things with religions, which are now philosophies.
Oh man I loved Alpha Centauri so much when I was a kid. But I have dyslexia so missed out on a lot of the back story from not being able to read so well.
This is my favourite Talking Simulator to date. I especially like Alex's insight on the fact that a lot of choices in real management scenarios don't have obvious value-level outcomes.
I suspect that many people on the internet will engage in arguing pointless semantics because they know it wares people out. Then when the person trying to make a point eventually just walks away they can feel like they've "won" without actually achieving anything or adding anything to the discussion. Its kind of sad really, the internet can be like swimming in a sea of other peoples delicate egos.
I have to say, overtime LRR makes a reference to the disc world my heart skips a beat. My dad instilled a love of Terry Pratchett's novels in me early and it is forever the series that people have vaguely heard of but don't know much about. I love finding other people that enjoy his writing.
The BE devs didn't have a choice about lying: Alpha Centauri is owned by EA, so they needed to publicly state they were different to avoid a lawsuit that would likely destroy the game.
Alpha Centauri is owned by EA. Mentioning that game while promoting Beyond Earth would be an IP violation. That was the only way for a game like this by these people to ever see the light of day!
I think the best example of how the story and themes in Civ:BE fall apart is the Harmony faction. All three factions make predominant use of a particular resource to build their faction-specific elite units; Purity uses Floatstone, Supremacy uses Firaxite, and Harmony uses the primordial soup-like Xenomass. Harmony is supposed to be the faction that cares about living in peace and harmony (hence the name Harmony) with the planet and the aliens, but the Xenomass is also what the aliens build their nests on, meaning that the Harmony faction, who're meant to be the Gaia's Stepdaughters of the game, are the ones most incentivised by gameplay to wage war against the aliens.
I think the general idea of a sequel involves a continuation of a story or continuity. The relation between Beyond Earth doesn't fit that definition. I guess I would call it a spiritual successor. That distinction has no relevance for the points you raised by comparing these two games. The games are similar in many important aspects: the premiss is almost identical, they are both turn based strategy games, they share a similar aesthetic, etc. Comparing the two reveals some interesting things: the game play in Beyond Earth is more polished, but the advances in that technology are basically just a reflection of the general advance of video game technology. But most video games are entertaining or interesting at least in part because they tell a story that gets you thinking about certain ideas. Storytelling technology in video games has also developed over time, though I think the advances in that field have been less pronounced than the average advancement in video game technology. I think it's interesting that Beyond Earth should have better storytelling tools, yet it doesn't tell its story as well as Alpha Centauri does.
You guys are awesome. Request: Civilization IV. Have you played it? I love it so much more than any subsequent Civ games, and I think it'd be interesting to see what it doesn't do and what it does better than V and VI. Oh, and mods. Fall From Heaven II and Rhye's and Fall are amazing (but use the most recent modmods).
This is somewhat narrow of a comment, but if you think you like soylent, go watch a video of the conditions it is made in, or at least used to be made in. It's everything but the conditions you want to your food to be made in. The Vice feature on it shows it being made in a small part of a rotten, rat infested, warehouse, barely seperated from the rest of the warehouse by plastic sheets. Don't go near that stuff, while it might be safe for consumption based on what is meant to contain it will contain a whole lot more that you don't want to eat.
I tried beyond earth when it was free for a weekend. Could not get into it. I have no idea who, or what, any of the factions are. A lot of modern games do this, you sit there looking at +2 to xxxx, or +4 to xxxx. The games themselves are built in the same way, you research things that give you +3, or +5, it's all numbers. It may all be very sound math, but it's not as fun.
Civ: BE is a science fiction game about humans colonising another planet that has native hostile life. SMAC is a science fiction game about humans colonising another planet that has native hostile life. That's the extent of the similarities. Everything else about them is different. Civ: BE is no more a sequel or spiritual successor to SMAC than any cyberpunk book or story is a sequel or spiritual successor to Neuromancer. Also, holy fuck do I hate BE and love SMAC. Latter had given me the feeling of good hard science fiction, like Asimov, Lem, Anderson, the kind of story that stayed with you forever, and the former gives me the feeling of soft-cover shovel-ware about HUMANITY! FUCK YEAH! bullshit you could buy at newspaper stands, read through in a day without paying much attention, and forget about it the next day.
Made me kinda annoyed you guys had such a hard time explaining your point of view and defending your opinions on the two games. Stupid argument indeed. Even to the point that the two games could even be compared to one another? Do other people not want to watch Talking Simulator to hear the opinions of you two? I'd love to watch the whole LRR live streams on twitch but the timezones suck. So thanks for uploading these videos.
Wow chat was being awful during Beyond Earth. The whole point of this show is to provoke discussion on the narrative and cerebral elements of games and how the medium contributes to that. if you want an analysis of mechanics, there are plenty of other great shows for that, Total Biscuit for example. Please stop sabotaging the show and let the guys do their thing kthx.
It's a shame beyond Earth didn't live up to alpha Centauri standard
The intro: "our journey through space was long and quiet" Cam: *crunch crunch crunch* =>.
Great video guys! I loved the mention of Psychohistory and the brief discussion at the end concerning the ethics of futuristic tech! Keep up the good work!
I know neither of you are fans of comments sections, but I want to say how much I adored this episode. I love your guys' discussions and I can't thank you enough for how much I learn from your stream over others.
I have to say, I love the comment about building a truck. Modern industry is so taken for granted that even most Science Fiction works forget about it. It takes a LOT of infrastructure to built the things we have today, and it takes a lot of work to get that infrastructure, so you have to figure something else out.
Sure a colony operation would be stupid not to come with an extremely well equipped machine shop that can build anything, but that's still a long way from mass production.
I love how Alan Steele's Coyote Series touches upon this. They came with all sorts of fancy stuff, and follow-up colony ships brought more technology, but after decades, you still have roads shared by high tech hovercars and low tech wagons since the wagons can be easily created with simple tools and wood and still work just fine for hauling things.
Since you mentioned the voice actors’ accents, it’s good to mention that the developers of Alpha Centauri went out of their way to find actors who were native speakers of the language / nationality being represented (Russian, Chinese, Indian English, African English, etc.) … with the only possible error being Deidre Skye, whose name and in-game background is Scottish but whose accent sounds more Irish.
Organic superlube? Oh great stuff, great stuff...
Isiah Friedlander You’ve gotta keep an eye on it though. It’ll slip away from you the first chance it gets.
I once saw a drum of this fall into a beach head bunker once.... Put a Tug in dry dock for 6 weeks!
In my mod I made it the basis of hovertank operation! I call them "Sliders".
If you liked the world of Alpha Centauri but perhaps wished for updated gameplay, there's the Planetfall Mod for Civilization IV, which does a few interesting things. Sadly, there's a few things from AC that dont' quite translate, the big one being terraforming... they could't find a way to do elevation changes and how they influence climate, but everything else works quite well. They even did a few new things with religions, which are now philosophies.
or you can buy stellaris, it's not in civilization series, but least it's still alive and gets updates.
Oh man I loved Alpha Centauri so much when I was a kid. But I have dyslexia so missed out on a lot of the back story from not being able to read so well.
This is my favourite Talking Simulator to date. I especially like Alex's insight on the fact that a lot of choices in real management scenarios don't have obvious value-level outcomes.
"let's research physics" "We don't have any ****ing food!"
I want Alex to voice all of my civ citizens
no "alien crossfire" expansion pack? also, fusion planetbusters cover nukes in this game.
I suspect that many people on the internet will engage in arguing pointless semantics because they know it wares people out. Then when the person trying to make a point eventually just walks away they can feel like they've "won" without actually achieving anything or adding anything to the discussion. Its kind of sad really, the internet can be like swimming in a sea of other peoples delicate egos.
I have to say, overtime LRR makes a reference to the disc world my heart skips a beat. My dad instilled a love of Terry Pratchett's novels in me early and it is forever the series that people have vaguely heard of but don't know much about. I love finding other people that enjoy his writing.
Wooooop! One of my all time favourite games!
The BE devs didn't have a choice about lying: Alpha Centauri is owned by EA, so they needed to publicly state they were different to avoid a lawsuit that would likely destroy the game.
WE MUST DISSENT
love your guys mtg content and saw you guys play my favorite game, Alpha Centauri, and loved it.
Merriam is the best charecter +25% attacking bonus
if you have teck theif on it makes is a super easy game even on harder levels.
Merriam's gotta fight...for his right...TO PARTY!
Alpha Centauri is owned by EA. Mentioning that game while promoting Beyond Earth would be an IP violation. That was the only way for a game like this by these people to ever see the light of day!
I think the best example of how the story and themes in Civ:BE fall apart is the Harmony faction.
All three factions make predominant use of a particular resource to build their faction-specific elite units; Purity uses Floatstone, Supremacy uses Firaxite, and Harmony uses the primordial soup-like Xenomass.
Harmony is supposed to be the faction that cares about living in peace and harmony (hence the name Harmony) with the planet and the aliens, but the Xenomass is also what the aliens build their nests on, meaning that the Harmony faction, who're meant to be the Gaia's Stepdaughters of the game, are the ones most incentivised by gameplay to wage war against the aliens.
Excellent discussion chaps
I think the general idea of a sequel involves a continuation of a story or continuity. The relation between Beyond Earth doesn't fit that definition. I guess I would call it a spiritual successor. That distinction has no relevance for the points you raised by comparing these two games. The games are similar in many important aspects: the premiss is almost identical, they are both turn based strategy games, they share a similar aesthetic, etc. Comparing the two reveals some interesting things: the game play in Beyond Earth is more polished, but the advances in that technology are basically just a reflection of the general advance of video game technology. But most video games are entertaining or interesting at least in part because they tell a story that gets you thinking about certain ideas. Storytelling technology in video games has also developed over time, though I think the advances in that field have been less pronounced than the average advancement in video game technology. I think it's interesting that Beyond Earth should have better storytelling tools, yet it doesn't tell its story as well as Alpha Centauri does.
Jaap Zeldenrust beyond earth burned me for $60. Firaxis maxis lost a loyal customer .
You guys are awesome. Request: Civilization IV. Have you played it? I love it so much more than any subsequent Civ games, and I think it'd be interesting to see what it doesn't do and what it does better than V and VI. Oh, and mods. Fall From Heaven II and Rhye's and Fall are amazing (but use the most recent modmods).
This is somewhat narrow of a comment, but if you think you like soylent, go watch a video of the conditions it is made in, or at least used to be made in. It's everything but the conditions you want to your food to be made in. The Vice feature on it shows it being made in a small part of a rotten, rat infested, warehouse, barely seperated from the rest of the warehouse by plastic sheets. Don't go near that stuff, while it might be safe for consumption based on what is meant to contain it will contain a whole lot more that you don't want to eat.
More AC please.
I tried beyond earth when it was free for a weekend. Could not get into it. I have no idea who, or what, any of the factions are.
A lot of modern games do this, you sit there looking at +2 to xxxx, or +4 to xxxx. The games themselves are built in the same way, you research things that give you +3, or +5, it's all numbers.
It may all be very sound math, but it's not as fun.
I really wish they would eat louder, I could almost hear the dialogue over the chewing.
"only the strong survive"
don't the strong routinely get shanked by the shrewd?
Loved alex before this, now I adore. Foundation is the greatest.
Pac-Man was the first billion dollar game
Civ: BE is a science fiction game about humans colonising another planet that has native hostile life.
SMAC is a science fiction game about humans colonising another planet that has native hostile life.
That's the extent of the similarities. Everything else about them is different. Civ: BE is no more a sequel or spiritual successor to SMAC than any cyberpunk book or story is a sequel or spiritual successor to Neuromancer.
Also, holy fuck do I hate BE and love SMAC. Latter had given me the feeling of good hard science fiction, like Asimov, Lem, Anderson, the kind of story that stayed with you forever, and the former gives me the feeling of soft-cover shovel-ware about HUMANITY! FUCK YEAH! bullshit you could buy at newspaper stands, read through in a day without paying much attention, and forget about it the next day.
nothing i love more than listening to people eat...
Made me kinda annoyed you guys had such a hard time explaining your point of view and defending your opinions on the two games. Stupid argument indeed. Even to the point that the two games could even be compared to one another? Do other people not want to watch Talking Simulator to hear the opinions of you two?
I'd love to watch the whole LRR live streams on twitch but the timezones suck. So thanks for uploading these videos.
Wow chat was being awful during Beyond Earth. The whole point of this show is to provoke discussion on the narrative and cerebral elements of games and how the medium contributes to that. if you want an analysis of mechanics, there are plenty of other great shows for that, Total Biscuit for example. Please stop sabotaging the show and let the guys do their thing kthx.
Could have called this one 'SMAC talk'