For the people commenting about 32bit apps being able to use up to 4GB of RAM... I know, I cover this in the video. On Windows, 32bit apps by default can only use 2GB of RAM, this can be increased to 3GB on 32bit systems and 4GB on 64bit systems using the largeaddress flag (32bit systems also require the 3GB switch to be activated). But by default, on Windows, 32bit apps can only use 2GB unless you change it yourself or the app is shipped that way. ----- Socials: Instagram - instagram.com/_tjgm_/ TikTok - www.tiktok.com/@tjgm_? Twitter - twitter.com/TJGM_ Join the official TJGM Community Discord server! Where you can discuss my videos, receive announcements, chat with me and discuss games. discord.gg/AsRsXzqT6s
Just watched your great Video but damn bro that gta 5 music in the Background you're a Legend i love it 🥰 crazy how gta brought us all together and it's tomorrow 17.september and gta 5 has been 10 years old already only can hope for an gta 6 teaser or better trailer for 2024 i hope so much for it
And if Windows wasn't dum, we could bank RAM. Remember, there is a 32-bit Windows which can use 64GB RAM.. I wonder how 32-bit applications run on that. Sadly, it hard to get except ebay maybe or so..
@@Sypaka the reason 32bit windows only supports 4gb total (system + vram) is due to the way device drivers are written, if the limit was taken off by the same method Linux uses to use 64GB on 32bit then most of the drivers would not work without being recompiled, you can't do that without source code.
@@edwardecl The "PAE" problem. Some drivers DID work, some not - mostly exotic hardware. That's why Windows XP SP3 hardcapped Windows 32-bit to 4GB RAM. Should have been easy for manufacturers to rewrite PAE to drivers, but in the end, they didn't. On Windows 7 there is no limit - but artificial by license (no joke).
@@edwardecl It's not about drivers. Limitation is in the fact that each process has it's own virtual memory space and own virtual addresses, and kernel always keeps kernel memory mapped to user space virtual memory to be able to transfer data from user space memory to kernel space memory and perform syscalls. So, in virtual memory space anything that is above 2gb (31bits) is privileged kernel memory. When you apply 3gb config you basically move this border and limit amount of address space available to kernel and that's not a problem since kernel doesn't need that much memory anyways and 2gb was choosen because of implementation simplicity. When you enable PAE you will have more physical addresses, but still the same 32bits of virtual addresses. That's why there still will be limit of 2gb of memory per process with PAE. If you really want to use more then 4gb of memory in 32bit application on PAE system, you could continusly remap different physical memory on same virtual addresses when you need it, but this would be incredible pain to develop and ruin performance. At this point some drivers which used physical addresses directly and not used virtual addresses had problems with PAE. On 64bit systems kernel behaves the same way, it's virtual memory starts on 63bit boundary, not on 31bit. So 32bit application can use it's 4gb of virtual space as they want. If we had ram size of 18.4 exabytes, we would have same problem on 64bit system as with 4gb on 32bit.
This is the reason why the re3/reVC source code recreations are so important as it allows the community to refurbish the games when the original developers could or would not.
@Tegu Iguana For this video I used the stream usage counter by MixMods, although you can also just press F5 to view limits if you have Open Limit Adjuster. www.mixmods.com.br/2015/01/stream-usage-counter-mostrar-o-uso-de-memoria-do-jogo/
@@TJGM Kamu bahkan lebih menghargai orang yang memberimu hadiah, ada konten kreator lain yang saya lihat, saat di beri 50usd dia hanya menulis beberapa kata di kolom komentar balasan
I've similar videos on the channel if you're interested. Need to know how lights work in old GTA games? Probably not, but it's still interesting. th-cam.com/video/XwPcI-pTCcA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=f8HjTuKXScuROnRi
what's even more interesting is that there are still relatively modern games that still follow these same rules. every battlefield before battlefield one for instance also has a 2gb limit for level streaming. For call of duty the first game to use more than 2gb was BO3.
Just stumbled on to your channel & have been enjoying your content. Your guides are clear, concise & helpful; so much that even a slow learner like me could follow. Stumbling into you has been like accidently stepping into a goldmine. High production values with clear-cut explanations. Your content rekindled my love for San Andreas. And lastly, I appreciate you for explaining lucidly even after the fact that your native tongue is Irish. You put a lot of native Anglicans to shame. Great work Sire!
This is super interesting, thank you for sharing. I'm always looking forward to learn how the original GTA trilogy works, these games hold a very special place close to my heart, and seeing videos like that pop up is always appreciated. Definitely a double thumbs up. 👍👍
I do not really play GTA, but as a somewhat technical person, beginning programmer and simply gamer it was really interesting to watch and study! Also, as someone mentioned, open source everything for modding/fixing the game(s)! ^^ Thank you!
Oh my God.... I didn't realize SA could only utilize 2 gigabytes of RAM, that explains why my pause menu textures appeared white and didn't load like in the video... Thanks for the helpful information.
That's not really the full story, though. The PS2 has 32 MB of main system RAM, but also 4 MB of VRAM and an additional 2 MB (later upgraded to 4 MB) of RAM dedicated for I/O, and 2 MB of memory dedicated for sound processing, so that I/O and sound aren't using main system RAM. So in total games had access to 40 or 42 MB. Its not a lot by today's standards, but considering the extremely low resolution these games ran at, as well as the extremely low resolution and high compression of the textures, there's nothing really amazing about it. These games looked muddy as F on the PS2 if you were a PC Gamer, but for console gamers it was impressive enough.
@@captbloodbeard yea the video's majority false information, people think system ram is an issue because of 2gb limit, while 2gb is more than youll need to run the game code and retain values, issue's how much you could push game engine and vram
And people still say gaming back then was better LMAO. What a bunch of idi**s! Thank god for Steam digital downloads on my PC these days. Or hell, Blu-Ray disks, which are far more resistant against scratches and stuff.
@@Generationalwealth94 Games certainly work better now, but they aren't nearly as fun. Every game is either eSports bait or cinematic slop for people who can't play real games nowadays.
About recommended limits, I don't think it makes much sense to follow how much RAM there is on the PC, in my opinion the correct thing is to use as little as possible so that a good part of the map/vehicles/peds etc are loaded, but still unloads what you don't need anymore. When I had a weak PC and used original RoSA Project, I tried 1024 but after a while the game started to slow down, I lowered it to 512 and it seems to have improved, so I lowered it to 256 and it completely solved the lag (however, RoSA Project Evolved changes a lot more textures, so the minimum is now 512). I completed the whole map storyline in this way (2016). I think that when the game has a lot of things loaded into memory, new things take a little longer to load, probably due to memory fragmentation, but using Improved Streaming looks good, but I only tested on middle-high end PC.
Huh, good to know. I’ve played through the game with the 2GB limit before and never noticed any slow down, although my PC isn’t too bad. I’ll leave a note in the pinned comment for those who might have weaker PC’s.
@@Shahzad12357 windows has nothing to do with game ram-space minus limiting it's size artificially. On 64bit systems that limit is removed allowing access to all 4GB 32bit can see at onece.
@@mjcox242 i never said it did that I was trying to say it had a good os and most of the 32mb of ram was going to the game and not the operating system. the game was alot more optimized for it.
@@mjcox242 the thing is that video game consoles focus on specific task which is .... playing games, that's why they require less powerful hardware to be able to still run the game whereas on PCs you will be required to have more powerful components because of OS and other apps/tasks that pc is designed for.
@@mjcox242 Windows does use more RAM as it has a ton of services and other stuff, if your system is made for just running games there is a lot of memory that can be saved
Amazing Video man. Subbed edit: Also the use of the music in GTA V stoey mode when you pause it for too long is absolutely mood enhancing and appreciated. One of my favorite tracks in the GTA V official, original Score. Even more props to you 💪🏽💪🏽
Thank you for this video ;) I have been a gamer for a very very long time and it doesn't hurt to refresh my memory a little with such qualitative explanations! ;) Good work and great teaching ! =) Essential basics to have for modding !
People think that it was amazing that this game ran on the PS2's memory size of 32MB. What's more amazing to me is that it had to stream data in at a data rate (~5.25MB/s of raw bandwidth, so much lower practical bandwidth) and seek time (within ~100ms) that made contemporary hard drives look blistering fast.
and then around the same era people modded PS2 to ran games from standard PC hard drives (which was meant to be only for the very few MMOs and online apps only and the original HDD has to be Sony's) anyway
When using higher streaming memory taxi drivers get bugged. The drivers don't change between cities and throughout the in-game day instead when you open gta sa depending on where you are on the map on initial launch of the game you'll only see one taxi driver ped type. It will not change until you close and reopen the game loading your save game from another point in the map. My bad for the wording but I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying
Ah... That video reminds me of the old San Andreas Multiplayer days, mapping in SAMP was always a challenge due to limitations of the San Andreas itself.
Much of the reason why streaming has to work like this is a limitation of DirectX 9. Any and all textures loaded into vram have to be mirrored in system memory as well (to account for moments when the system "loses" a device, such as when you've alt-tabbed out of the game and rendering suddenly becomes impossible), so DX9 would use the game's working set to store those mirrored textures. This is why the large address-aware flag mod rose to prominence, especially if you had a video card with 2gb+ of vram, in games like Fallout: New Vegas, the game would routinely crash from attempting to fill up all that vram with streamed textures and burn through its 2gb working set limit long before the video card ran out of vram.
Interesting. That would mean you could also resolve these issues by limiting the amount of VRAM exposed to the game and keeping the installed game/texture mods on fast enough storage for it to always be able to stream texture data in fast enough to prevent stutters. (Which isn't hard for this era of games even with texture mods...Just install it on any decent SSD.)
@@meyers0781 No significant difference between DX8 and DX9 when it comes to "lost" devices though. The only thing I could find from a cursory read of the DX9 documentation is that DX9 also stores shaders in the process' working set so that they don't have to be reloaded when a lost device is reset to operational.
In my case i encounter another problem since i have already the large address: modloader is a great innovation but unfortunately with too many mods inside (50+) it cause stuttering, lags and fps drops making my game unplayable (well visually speaking) basically almost unmoddable at this point.
I have like 80 mods and a good bunch of them are texture mods ans still all good. I have some good fix mods and other like improved streaming that are actually quite good at stabilizing the game
@@mihailcirlig8187 what are yours 'good fix mods' can you be more specific because i also have lots of mods inside modloader and my game runs badly just for this reason even tho i have tried every possible solution already but you never know..
I have more than 100 mods in modloader (I'm not kidding), but my game is still extremely playable, i get above 35 to 40 fps, and 60 when I'm in the woods, this is my laptop spec, Core i3, 4GB RAM, Intel HD 4000, it's an extremely low end PC, but it can run even GTA 4 on medium graphics i get 25 to 30 FPS, it does lag, but only for some time. There's one problem i have with SA tho, whenever i turn on the game and load a save file or a new game, and if i spawn some Ballas via RZL trainer or cheat menu and give them any gun and provoke them, they start attacking me as usual, but my game gets a huge lag spike, but it only lasts for 2 minutes and it never happens again. This also happens in missions where an enemy will shoot CJ.
Maaan, back when my dad brought a bootleg gta CD with alot of modded vice city games, there was san andreas on the other side of the CD, it was filled with Tons of custom cars, but the World never loaded in properly, i tought my pc couldnt handle the game Havent really used huge texture mods myself, but that solves now why my game used to load so, so slowly
i’ve always been a fan of renderware engine and how unique it was created around limitations that gave it its own distinctive feel and look especially if this was it being pushed to its limits within only a couple years of development by R⭐️
Awesome video, I love learning how the games code works🔥🔥 I was playing the OG Xbox version of San Andreas on my 360 and the entire map started to glitch out. I was surrounded by low quality models and empty spots in the map like CJ wasn't in the area or something. Reloaded a save and that didn't fix it. Its never done this before in the last 2 decades I've had the game so i thought the game was completely broken for a sec. It fixed once I restarted the game, kinda wish we could mod San Andreas on console for it to use more ram so this doesn't happen. Idk why it bugged out on me driving from Grove St to Los Flores, too much was going on in the game world I'm guessing?😂
I experienced low memory when creating DYOM/creating my own mission, but suddenly when I wanted to select pedestrians, vehicles, objects & effects, and objectives suddenly the memory was low but when I installed Stream memory the fix was still the same, I tried it!
you didn't say how it works. if you want to actually understand it, look at the code and explain how it actually loads and swaps models and textures. This is just limits and setting values for people using mods, nothing else.
hard for me to know if you used gta 5 music or max payne 3 music in the background since both soundtracks overlap in style checked the descrpition and its gta 5
The computer science in me wants to say that setting the limit to 2048mb is technically above the memory limit and it should be 2047mb for the demonstration of 2gb but I know it'd have the exact same result of the game running out of memory and crashing anyway so bleh Interesting video though! It surprised me a little that it only uses 64mb for streaming but then I had to remind myself this game also came out on PS2 and the original Xbox, so it makes complete sense. It's easy to take for granted just how much RAM we have nowadays. Only thing I'd really add is that 32 bit OS's don't really exist anymore, so the 32 bit instructions are only relevant if you're running a super old computer (and even then 64 bit versions of Windows have been around since XP at least). If anyone doesn't know what their OS is it's almost definitely 64 bit if you're running modern hardware.
I've had so much trouble with the game crashing and textures stopping loading after like 3-5 minutes of gameplay while everything was fine... i set the memory to 2048 but i forgot that, when i started over, i never patched the exe with large address again like i had done in the first attempt at modding (i started over cuz it was a mess) and thus the game was running out of memory and crashing bc textures where probably taking all the available memory, great explanation, i wish your discord server was of more help in at least guiding me to this video, i went there asking for help and was shrugged off to "read the guides" where a simple "seems like a memory issue, maybe check this video see if you did everything right" would have been nice, but well you can't have everything, found this casually after i played the game in that state somehow, which is a win for me! thanks again
That happens to me when I used to play SA years ago on Windows XP and installed mods. and I had some issues of models not loaded properly and instead loaded LODs. so I can see why these games were coded in 32-bit like most games in 2000's
POV it's 2022 and there's no satisfying mod aside from Open Limit Adjuster that can fix this problem. Draw distance when flying helicopters or planes are shit. Same for Definitive Edition.
That's not due to the streaming limit. That's an optimization feature that reduces object distance when flying. There's a mod that changes the behaviour out there somewhere.
dude how can i thank you i liked the video that should help but i always played gta sa with potato settings and it lag for no reason so i downloaded all of the mods you showed in the video i did everything you said in the video but i changed the 30fps to 60fps and i started and bro there i was no lag i maxed out the settings and still no lag (unless if i go too fast) but hey at least im enjoying it again thanks you bro! (here a sub as a gift!)
You shoul ve also said how this game works on ps2, considering it has only 32mb of ram and running the game directly from the disk with no storage unit :))
Thank you very much for explaining this concept. I have a question, is there a mod or program to see the use of stream for Vice City? as well as the one you used for San Andreas.
this happens in GTA 5 FiveM servers as well where the "city Engineers" have no game development skills and blame it on players and dunno how to optimize the mods they are pouring into the server, like modded cars and players leaving 100's of those crashed cars around the map
32bit applications should be able to use 4gb of memory, not 2gb. This is determined by the maximum number of values (memory addresses) a 4 byte (32bit) pointer can hold
@@LuizDahoraavida Please watch the entire video or read the pinned comment. 32bit applications on Windows, can't use 4GB of memory unless the application has the large address aware flag. In which case it can use 4GB on 64bit Windows, or 3GB or 32bit Windows.
if possible can you make a video on increasing limits for add-on tuning parts for custom vehicles. I know FLA fixes most issues but there's still a limit to how many tuning parts one can add to the game for customizable cars-(That is arch angel vehicles and loco lowrider garages )
I have a problem in my game I have 8 gb ram and I set streaming memory to 1gb my game working fine but Lags sometimes and the weapon textures are not loading at all sniper, desert eagle, sawn off shotgun are all white
Gta v use todo similar stuff with my 8gb ddr2 system. But it was cpu based issues (an old core 2 quad) When I switched to an i5 3470 with only 4gbs of low grade memory it was way better, but I upgraded to 12gbs of gaming ram
This video reminds me of a mod i tried to install, the gta san andreas coop mod. I always ran into random crashes, no idea why, never bothered to check. I will have to check your "how to mod gta sa" video, probably i can find some solutions but I am curious what do you think about that mod and probably you can show us a video how to set it up properly? I could make it run in steam remote play together by tricking steam to think i am playing a steam game that already has the remote play together feature.
For the people commenting about 32bit apps being able to use up to 4GB of RAM... I know, I cover this in the video.
On Windows, 32bit apps by default can only use 2GB of RAM, this can be increased to 3GB on 32bit systems and 4GB on 64bit systems using the largeaddress flag (32bit systems also require the 3GB switch to be activated). But by default, on Windows, 32bit apps can only use 2GB unless you change it yourself or the app is shipped that way.
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Just watched your great Video but damn bro that gta 5 music in the Background you're a Legend i love it 🥰 crazy how gta brought us all together and it's tomorrow 17.september and gta 5 has been 10 years old already only can hope for an gta 6 teaser or better trailer for 2024 i hope so much for it
And if Windows wasn't dum, we could bank RAM. Remember, there is a 32-bit Windows which can use 64GB RAM.. I wonder how 32-bit applications run on that. Sadly, it hard to get except ebay maybe or so..
@@Sypaka the reason 32bit windows only supports 4gb total (system + vram) is due to the way device drivers are written, if the limit was taken off by the same method Linux uses to use 64GB on 32bit then most of the drivers would not work without being recompiled, you can't do that without source code.
@@edwardecl The "PAE" problem. Some drivers DID work, some not - mostly exotic hardware. That's why Windows XP SP3 hardcapped Windows 32-bit to 4GB RAM. Should have been easy for manufacturers to rewrite PAE to drivers, but in the end, they didn't. On Windows 7 there is no limit - but artificial by license (no joke).
@@edwardecl It's not about drivers.
Limitation is in the fact that each process has it's own virtual memory space and own virtual addresses, and kernel always keeps kernel memory mapped to user space virtual memory to be able to transfer data from user space memory to kernel space memory and perform syscalls. So, in virtual memory space anything that is above 2gb (31bits) is privileged kernel memory. When you apply 3gb config you basically move this border and limit amount of address space available to kernel and that's not a problem since kernel doesn't need that much memory anyways and 2gb was choosen because of implementation simplicity.
When you enable PAE you will have more physical addresses, but still the same 32bits of virtual addresses. That's why there still will be limit of 2gb of memory per process with PAE. If you really want to use more then 4gb of memory in 32bit application on PAE system, you could continusly remap different physical memory on same virtual addresses when you need it, but this would be incredible pain to develop and ruin performance. At this point some drivers which used physical addresses directly and not used virtual addresses had problems with PAE.
On 64bit systems kernel behaves the same way, it's virtual memory starts on 63bit boundary, not on 31bit. So 32bit application can use it's 4gb of virtual space as they want. If we had ram size of 18.4 exabytes, we would have same problem on 64bit system as with 4gb on 32bit.
This is the reason why the re3/reVC source code recreations are so important as it allows the community to refurbish the games when the original developers could or would not.
Yea, if I remember correctly those were told to cease and desist by Rockstar right?
@@isaacster5027 Sadly so.
@@isaacster5027 rockstar are greedy grumps
@@interesting7029If Rockstar allowed modding then they know that the defective editions would never sell.
It's always about bean counters to them, what can you expect?
i loved the buildings popping into view. the low-detail versions are just fascinating to me
It feels so nostalgic
i hate it. it breaks my immersion
@@DziuraObokSiura Didn't ask.
@@humanharddrive1 LOD just scary to me.
Andi ahn enth theetam feature anelm korennam verum I love it enn prnj pootichimakkal
This video is necesary to understand the basics before modding gta sa in 2023. Thanks.
I really appreciate your style, nice and clear explanation of the complex topics. Please keep it going!
Thank you! Means a lot coming from you.
@Tegu Iguana For this video I used the stream usage counter by MixMods, although you can also just press F5 to view limits if you have Open Limit Adjuster.
www.mixmods.com.br/2015/01/stream-usage-counter-mostrar-o-uso-de-memoria-do-jogo/
@@TJGM Kamu bahkan lebih menghargai orang yang memberimu hadiah, ada konten kreator lain yang saya lihat, saat di beri 50usd dia hanya menulis beberapa kata di kolom komentar balasan
i'm not a programmer, but it is legitimately interesting learning how these 2-decade-old games works
I've similar videos on the channel if you're interested. Need to know how lights work in old GTA games? Probably not, but it's still interesting.
th-cam.com/video/XwPcI-pTCcA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=f8HjTuKXScuROnRi
what's even more interesting is that there are still relatively modern games that still follow these same rules. every battlefield before battlefield one for instance also has a 2gb limit for level streaming. For call of duty the first game to use more than 2gb was BO3.
Modern games also work like this but they have less hardware limitations.
Just stumbled on to your channel & have been enjoying your content. Your guides are clear, concise & helpful; so much that even a slow learner like me could follow. Stumbling into you has been like accidently stepping into a goldmine. High production values with clear-cut explanations. Your content rekindled my love for San Andreas. And lastly, I appreciate you for explaining lucidly even after the fact that your native tongue is Irish. You put a lot of native Anglicans to shame. Great work Sire!
Thank you! Although the most spoken language here in Ireland is English, I don't speak very much Irish 😅
@@TJGM Whoops! Didn't know about that!
oh hes the best hands down lol ive watched many videos
This dude def makes the highest quality old GTA games videos on YT, I still see many clickbaiters making videos about this game and it's sad
This is super interesting, thank you for sharing. I'm always looking forward to learn how the original GTA trilogy works, these games hold a very special place close to my heart, and seeing videos like that pop up is always appreciated. Definitely a double thumbs up. 👍👍
ive spent hours trying to get my texture mod to load correctly and it finally did thanks to you
I do not really play GTA, but as a somewhat technical person, beginning programmer and simply gamer it was really interesting to watch and study!
Also, as someone mentioned, open source everything for modding/fixing the game(s)! ^^
Thank you!
Oh my God....
I didn't realize SA could only utilize 2 gigabytes of RAM, that explains why my pause menu textures appeared white and didn't load like in the video...
Thanks for the helpful information.
Use Largeasress
meant largeaddress
I only ever knew that it was important, but not how it worked. Thanks to you, I understand now!
I never knew that I could have just replaced the percent all together from open limit adjuster! Thanks alot for showing me!
if i set ola to 1024 do i need to set the same in mixsets?
@@MarvinAbedes haven't had San Andreas in my hands for a while, but I think the answer is yes. MixSets may override it anyway
It's amazing to think the PS2 Version ran with just 32MB of RAM.
Windows is the bottleneck for us pc users
That's not really the full story, though. The PS2 has 32 MB of main system RAM, but also 4 MB of VRAM and an additional 2 MB (later upgraded to 4 MB) of RAM dedicated for I/O, and 2 MB of memory dedicated for sound processing, so that I/O and sound aren't using main system RAM. So in total games had access to 40 or 42 MB. Its not a lot by today's standards, but considering the extremely low resolution these games ran at, as well as the extremely low resolution and high compression of the textures, there's nothing really amazing about it. These games looked muddy as F on the PS2 if you were a PC Gamer, but for console gamers it was impressive enough.
@@captbloodbeard yea the video's majority false information, people think system ram is an issue because of 2gb limit, while 2gb is more than youll need to run the game code and retain values, issue's how much you could push game engine and vram
@@ThexXxXxOLOxXxXx5:15
@@Weneedaplague Don't listen to him search for better tutorials
Brings back memories from when your GTA disc on PS2 is scratched and the music starts skipping and/or you fall through the road and it freezes 😅😭
Or when you're flying a plane and a tree spawns in front of you a second before disaster lol
And people still say gaming back then was better LMAO. What a bunch of idi**s! Thank god for Steam digital downloads on my PC these days. Or hell, Blu-Ray disks, which are far more resistant against scratches and stuff.
@@Generationalwealth94 Except, Steam is not good place if we look around CS2 and Dota 2's microtransactions.
@@Generationalwealth94 Games certainly work better now, but they aren't nearly as fun. Every game is either eSports bait or cinematic slop for people who can't play real games nowadays.
The music from the ice cream truck gives me ptsd. It had a 100% crash rate
About recommended limits, I don't think it makes much sense to follow how much RAM there is on the PC, in my opinion the correct thing is to use as little as possible so that a good part of the map/vehicles/peds etc are loaded, but still unloads what you don't need anymore.
When I had a weak PC and used original RoSA Project, I tried 1024 but after a while the game started to slow down, I lowered it to 512 and it seems to have improved, so I lowered it to 256 and it completely solved the lag (however, RoSA Project Evolved changes a lot more textures, so the minimum is now 512). I completed the whole map storyline in this way (2016). I think that when the game has a lot of things loaded into memory, new things take a little longer to load, probably due to memory fragmentation, but using Improved Streaming looks good, but I only tested on middle-high end PC.
Huh, good to know. I’ve played through the game with the 2GB limit before and never noticed any slow down, although my PC isn’t too bad.
I’ll leave a note in the pinned comment for those who might have weaker PC’s.
The PS2 had only 32 megabytes of RAM. Amazed it even worked at all.
Cuzz it didn't use windows
@@Shahzad12357 windows has nothing to do with game ram-space minus limiting it's size artificially.
On 64bit systems that limit is removed allowing access to all 4GB 32bit can see at onece.
@@mjcox242 i never said it did that
I was trying to say it had a good os and most of the 32mb of ram was going to the game and not the operating system.
the game was alot more optimized for it.
@@mjcox242 the thing is that video game consoles focus on specific task which is .... playing games, that's why they require less powerful hardware to be able to still run the game whereas on PCs you will be required to have more powerful components because of OS and other apps/tasks that pc is designed for.
@@mjcox242 Windows does use more RAM as it has a ton of services and other stuff, if your system is made for just running games there is a lot of memory that can be saved
This is sooo good to know. Makes me want to try Vice City and San Andreas again. Thanks for such a well put-together video!
Amazing Video man. Subbed
edit: Also the use of the music in GTA V stoey mode when you pause it for too long is absolutely mood enhancing and appreciated. One of my favorite tracks in the GTA V official, original Score.
Even more props to you 💪🏽💪🏽
Thank you for this video ;) I have been a gamer for a very very long time and it doesn't hurt to refresh my memory a little with such qualitative explanations! ;) Good work and great teaching ! =)
Essential basics to have for modding !
Thanks it is now easy to understand.
thank you so much. Now I kno why the Rosa evolved textures weren't working and making everything disappear. you're a life saver!
That is amazing. The game came up 20 years ago, and people still do mods for it xD
That is clearly very good game.
I stopped playing GTA San Andreas two to three years ago, but I still watch this video completely.
People think that it was amazing that this game ran on the PS2's memory size of 32MB.
What's more amazing to me is that it had to stream data in at a data rate (~5.25MB/s of raw bandwidth, so much lower practical bandwidth) and seek time (within ~100ms) that made contemporary hard drives look blistering fast.
and then around the same era people modded PS2 to ran games from standard PC hard drives (which was meant to be only for the very few MMOs and online apps only and the original HDD has to be Sony's) anyway
When using higher streaming memory taxi drivers get bugged. The drivers don't change between cities and throughout the in-game day instead when you open gta sa depending on where you are on the map on initial launch of the game you'll only see one taxi driver ped type. It will not change until you close and reopen the game loading your save game from another point in the map. My bad for the wording but I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying
This would be the least of my concern.
Appreciate the videos you make about how the settings work, but I needed to know this over 10 years ago haha
Nice video bro, keep it up!
POV: When you watch too much GTA related videos, youtube recommends you a GTA technical analysis video
Your videos are so good. I'm eager to watch your San Andreas guide video and I don't care if it lasts 1 hour.
Wow i never knew about this.. I had this issue everytime i installed more than 3 car models and never knew it could be fixed in some way.. cool video
used to have such problem then i made it slightly better by only picking 2mb car models at maximum.
Great video! always nice to see the way these old games work. :)
i dont know anything about modding or what you talking about, but ive still watched the whole video.
i was installing car mods and i noticed this issue. This was very helpful and it worked, thanks!
Thanks, I've been looking for this the whole time.
Great video and very well explained!
Very interesting and useful guide. Thank you so much for this simple yet effective video!
0:01 omg... gta5 pause... so nostalgic...
absolutely
This is exactly what I needed
I'm getting PTSD from this... That error reading from GTA Vice City DVD will forever haunt me lol
I just found your channel, this is good stuff.
Ah... That video reminds me of the old San Andreas Multiplayer days, mapping in SAMP was always a challenge due to limitations of the San Andreas itself.
WHERE WERE YOU WHEN I WAS LEARNING TO MAKE MODS. man this video was great and super informative. Thank you!
THAT HELPED ME A LOT, THANK YOU
Much of the reason why streaming has to work like this is a limitation of DirectX 9. Any and all textures loaded into vram have to be mirrored in system memory as well (to account for moments when the system "loses" a device, such as when you've alt-tabbed out of the game and rendering suddenly becomes impossible), so DX9 would use the game's working set to store those mirrored textures. This is why the large address-aware flag mod rose to prominence, especially if you had a video card with 2gb+ of vram, in games like Fallout: New Vegas, the game would routinely crash from attempting to fill up all that vram with streamed textures and burn through its 2gb working set limit long before the video card ran out of vram.
Interesting. That would mean you could also resolve these issues by limiting the amount of VRAM exposed to the game and keeping the installed game/texture mods on fast enough storage for it to always be able to stream texture data in fast enough to prevent stutters. (Which isn't hard for this era of games even with texture mods...Just install it on any decent SSD.)
GTA SA ran on DX8 as far as i remember.
@@meyers0781 No significant difference between DX8 and DX9 when it comes to "lost" devices though. The only thing I could find from a cursory read of the DX9 documentation is that DX9 also stores shaders in the process' working set so that they don't have to be reloaded when a lost device is reset to operational.
In my case i encounter another problem since i have already the large address: modloader is a great innovation but unfortunately with too many mods inside (50+) it cause stuttering, lags and fps drops making my game unplayable (well visually speaking) basically almost unmoddable at this point.
Same.
I have like 80 mods and a good bunch of them are texture mods ans still all good. I have some good fix mods and other like improved streaming that are actually quite good at stabilizing the game
@@mihailcirlig8187 what are yours 'good fix mods' can you be more specific because i also have lots of mods inside modloader and my game runs badly just for this reason even tho i have tried every possible solution already but you never know..
I have more than 100 mods in modloader (I'm not kidding), but my game is still extremely playable, i get above 35 to 40 fps, and 60 when I'm in the woods, this is my laptop spec, Core i3, 4GB RAM, Intel HD 4000, it's an extremely low end PC, but it can run even GTA 4 on medium graphics i get 25 to 30 FPS, it does lag, but only for some time. There's one problem i have with SA tho, whenever i turn on the game and load a save file or a new game, and if i spawn some Ballas via RZL trainer or cheat menu and give them any gun and provoke them, they start attacking me as usual, but my game gets a huge lag spike, but it only lasts for 2 minutes and it never happens again. This also happens in missions where an enemy will shoot CJ.
Did you use the priority option? It's important to make sure that the most important mods have the higher priorities than other less important mods.
Maaan, back when my dad brought a bootleg gta CD with alot of modded vice city games, there was san andreas on the other side of the CD, it was filled with Tons of custom cars, but the World never loaded in properly, i tought my pc couldnt handle the game
Havent really used huge texture mods myself, but that solves now why my game used to load so, so slowly
i’ve always been a fan of renderware engine and how unique it was created around limitations that gave it its own distinctive feel and look especially if this was it being pushed to its limits within only a couple years of development by R⭐️
Sooo this is why my game has been crashing. Thanks mate
Edit: My game doesn’t crash anymore! Worked!
THANK YOU SO MUCH THIS VIDEO HAS FIXED MY ISSUE NOW I CAN INSTALL CAR MODS
where i will put thos two files ?
@@user-mostafamanso96 Mod loader
@@user-mostafamanso96 mod loader or root folder
Awesome video, I love learning how
the games code works🔥🔥
I was playing the OG Xbox version of San Andreas on my 360 and the entire map started to glitch out. I was surrounded by low quality models and empty spots in the map like CJ wasn't in the area or something. Reloaded a save and that didn't fix it. Its never done this before in the last 2 decades I've had the game so i thought the game was completely broken for a sec.
It fixed once I restarted the game, kinda wish we could mod San Andreas on console for it to use more ram so this doesn't happen. Idk why it bugged out on me driving from Grove St to Los Flores, too much was going on in the game world I'm guessing?😂
Thank you for this video 💚
thank you so much my game was crashing like crazy. this video was really helpfull
I experienced low memory when creating DYOM/creating my own mission, but suddenly when I wanted to select pedestrians, vehicles, objects & effects, and objectives suddenly the memory was low but when I installed Stream memory the fix was still the same, I tried it!
This only highlights how jam-packed GTA San Andreas is and it was pushing the PS2 capabilities to its limits despite not quite reaching the 4GB mark.
*0:58** wdym by default?* unsigned 32-bit integer can stoeezup to 4,3B or address up to 4GiB of data.
@@_GhostMiner Watch the video and listen. By default on Windows, they can't use 4GB.
Memory segmentation in virtual address space for NT kernel based OS was 2GB for user space and 2GB for kernel space in 32 bit apps.
@@zoriiginalx7544 thanks for taking the time to explain it
How I can see Stream Usage in the game (like at 2:25 left top corner)? Which button opens it?
you didn't say how it works. if you want to actually understand it, look at the code and explain how it actually loads and swaps models and textures. This is just limits and setting values for people using mods, nothing else.
fair notice, the title was badly chosen
(keep in mind that youtubers think of content first, and give it names second)
hard for me to know if you used gta 5 music or max payne 3 music in the background since both soundtracks overlap in style
checked the descrpition and its gta 5
Thank you for the info, this is game legendary.
The computer science in me wants to say that setting the limit to 2048mb is technically above the memory limit and it should be 2047mb for the demonstration of 2gb but I know it'd have the exact same result of the game running out of memory and crashing anyway so bleh
Interesting video though! It surprised me a little that it only uses 64mb for streaming but then I had to remind myself this game also came out on PS2 and the original Xbox, so it makes complete sense. It's easy to take for granted just how much RAM we have nowadays. Only thing I'd really add is that 32 bit OS's don't really exist anymore, so the 32 bit instructions are only relevant if you're running a super old computer (and even then 64 bit versions of Windows have been around since XP at least). If anyone doesn't know what their OS is it's almost definitely 64 bit if you're running modern hardware.
I've had so much trouble with the game crashing and textures stopping loading after like 3-5 minutes of gameplay while everything was fine... i set the memory to 2048 but i forgot that, when i started over, i never patched the exe with large address again like i had done in the first attempt at modding (i started over cuz it was a mess) and thus the game was running out of memory and crashing bc textures where probably taking all the available memory, great explanation, i wish your discord server was of more help in at least guiding me to this video, i went there asking for help and was shrugged off to "read the guides" where a simple "seems like a memory issue, maybe check this video see if you did everything right" would have been nice, but well you can't have everything, found this casually after i played the game in that state somehow, which is a win for me! thanks again
That happens to me when I used to play SA years ago on Windows XP and installed mods. and I had some issues of models not loaded properly and instead loaded LODs. so I can see why these games were coded in 32-bit like most games in 2000's
That happened to me all the time on my ps2. And a message saying "error reading grand theft auto san andreas disc".
i don't actually need it but maybe some day i will so good and simple guide u did thanks
I don't have any of these issues so thanks for the video
Super cool video dude.
POV it's 2022 and there's no satisfying mod aside from Open Limit Adjuster that can fix this problem.
Draw distance when flying helicopters or planes are shit.
Same for Definitive Edition.
That's not due to the streaming limit. That's an optimization feature that reduces object distance when flying. There's a mod that changes the behaviour out there somewhere.
@@TJGM oooh ^_^ what mod could that be? hahaha
Please, name this mod. When flying the bushes only appear within a 100 m radius, no matter what I set the drawdistances to
Underrated! Though, increase the pace of your video lol
Felicidades bro, exelente video
I use MixSets mod to set 512mb of streaming memory, I have 8gb of RAM and a SSD, I got 30fps with no fps drops
dude how can i thank you i liked the video that should help but i always played gta sa with potato settings and it lag for no reason so i downloaded all of the mods you showed in the video i did everything you said in the video but i changed the 30fps to 60fps and i started and bro there i was no lag i maxed out the settings and still no lag (unless if i go too fast) but hey at least im enjoying it again thanks you bro! (here a sub as a gift!)
You shoul ve also said how this game works on ps2, considering it has only 32mb of ram and running the game directly from the disk with no storage unit :))
8 months later and no one cares abt this comment :/
You should update your RoSA Project, this old version the vegetation looks so bad.
I plan to, but I’ve been getting a crash with the latest version that I haven’t had time to diagnose. Don’t worry, it’ll be installed soon :P
@@TJGMany update on this?
Thank you! i had it set to 2048MB and pause menu was not loading textures, and game was crashing, 1024 is perfect :)
Thank you very much for explaining this concept. I have a question, is there a mod or program to see the use of stream for Vice City? as well as the one you used for San Andreas.
Good background music choice
At 1:10 I'm just now noticing those apartment buildings. How those have escaped my attention for as long as I have played, I don't know...
theres also an ak behind the building at that part
Great video :)
Thank you!
Thank you so much mate🌺🌺🌺
this happens in GTA 5 FiveM servers as well where the "city Engineers" have no game development skills and blame it on players and dunno how to optimize the mods they are pouring into the server, like modded cars and players leaving 100's of those crashed cars around the map
It would be cool if we saw how streaming works in 4 and 5.
TJGM, can you please do a ragdoll bullet physics mod in your 7th GTA SA Mod Showroom series?
Amazing video and good explanation, also how did you show the memory usage can u link the mod and thanks
32bit applications should be able to use 4gb of memory, not 2gb. This is determined by the maximum number of values (memory addresses) a 4 byte (32bit) pointer can hold
@@LuizDahoraavida Please watch the entire video or read the pinned comment.
32bit applications on Windows, can't use 4GB of memory unless the application has the large address aware flag. In which case it can use 4GB on 64bit Windows, or 3GB or 32bit Windows.
if possible can you make a video on increasing limits for add-on tuning parts for custom vehicles. I know FLA fixes most issues but there's still a limit to how many tuning parts one can add to the game for customizable cars-(That is arch angel vehicles and loco lowrider garages )
great video Horsebox
i used largeaddress back in the day in one of my gta sa videos now im using it in wow
3:54 top 5 creepiest moment in GTA creepypastas
number 1 :
I never encountered such a problem?
Hi there TJGM, what mods do you recommend for a vanilla experience for San Andreas on PC? SilentPatch, SkyGFX and any others?
That same LOD thing would happen on my PS2, I think it had to do with the disk being scratched... didn't take care of my games as a kid lol
NTCore 4GB patch is a godsend.
I modded the heck out of gta sanandreas for many years but never knew how this worked. thanks for a detailed video.
I have a problem in my game I have 8 gb ram and I set streaming memory to 1gb my game working fine but Lags sometimes and the weapon textures are not loading at all sniper, desert eagle, sawn off shotgun are all white
Gta v use todo similar stuff with my 8gb ddr2 system.
But it was cpu based issues (an old core 2 quad)
When I switched to an i5 3470 with only 4gbs of low grade memory it was way better, but I upgraded to 12gbs of gaming ram
Gta 5 pause music is actually really good
i think gta iv also uses a similar technic, although probably a more sophisticated version of it.
This video reminds me of a mod i tried to install, the gta san andreas coop mod. I always ran into random crashes, no idea why, never bothered to check. I will have to check your "how to mod gta sa" video, probably i can find some solutions but I am curious what do you think about that mod and probably you can show us a video how to set it up properly? I could make it run in steam remote play together by tricking steam to think i am playing a steam game that already has the remote play together feature.