I love my Leitz Minolta CL, it makes for a great lightweight daily carry, with excellent image quality; paired with the 40mm, a Voigtländer 25/4, and a Minolta 90/4, I have a fantastic three lens set up that packs up in a super compact bag, and does not weigh a lot.
On a budget, I would recommend the Canon rangefinders. Those made in the 50's and 60's take LTM lenses. Also, the Canon Cannonet IIIG makes a nice metered choice for a rangefinder, the 40mm f1.7 is a fixed lens, not interchangeable. All of these can be found for $150 to $300. Not Leica quality but nicely built, durable cameras.
I once had a Canon 7 in my Hand and can say that the buildquality ist realy high, the camera feals very heavy an strong, however i am not shure how durabel the Metal shutter is. But Overall a great camera, and Here in German If you are lucky you can Pick one up for less then 200€.
@@linjicakonikon7666 just got a VT first version, cant find much about her on the internet only about the DELUXE, can you share some infos with me about the VT
Even the Soviet Zorkis are a good bet. They are not as nicely finished as the Japanese cameras, let alone the Leicas but once you get them sorted out, they are nice, reliable cameras. Not to mention that they are laughably cheap (50-70 Euros for a working example with lenses on ebay but I've bought one on a flea market for like 10 Eur here in Hungary) and there's a really nice repair guide for them on the internet.
This is one of my favorite cameras ever, I don’t really know why. The design just suits me. Not ideal for large, fast lenses, but for a compact camera to carry all day it can’t be beat.
The Leica CL is, no kidding, amazing. I shoot it with a Zeiss 50mm Sonnar (superb compact 50) and gorgeous Summaron 35mm 3.5 M-mount. It's an amazing street shooter. The only "weaknesses" are 1) an iffy light meter - mine works great and was rewired by Sherry Krauter to accept modern batteries, 2) a fragile film spool - (if you can really call a 40 year old part that can be replaced as a negative) I had mine replaced with a bombproof spool 3d printed by an engineer in Scotland, and 3) an 8/10 build quality - for reference I would rate an M6 a 9/10 a MP a 10/10 and M3 11/10...in other words it's still a well built and greatly engineered camera.
All of this and other opinions on YT mean one thing - the film community is screaming out For a new film camera, don’t really care who makes it, just want it made. As far as Leica goes, my M3 is still going strong and don’t see it failing ever as long as it’s gets it’s service when needed. M3’s and M2s will be still be working long after every M10 is dead.
The Leica cl came out at the same time as the Leica M5 they were the only metered Leica. The problem was it was better than the M5 in many ways at a cheaper price. This was a major reason way Leica discontinued it. The CL is a great little camera. Good ones are expensive on eBay.
I have owned two of them one the original CL and the Minolta Marketed Leitz/Minolta Cl. They were never intended to be Leica M tough. The lenses for them had a cam with a higher rise compared to the regular M mount thus the caveat about being incompatible. I have a friend who has the 40mm Minollta lens He uses it on his M bodies without issue. Collapsible Leica 50mm lenses need a piece of label maker tape so, they could not be pushed into the semaphore meter. Keep the cause of film going.
Leice cameras are now luxury stuff that you won't take them everywhere with you as they're insanely pricey. The best alternative is to get a Canon-P (with a good VF) and a good Leica lens (probably 50/1.5)
I think Leica needs to partner with a chinese or japanese camera manufacturer to make an authorized m mount rangefinder, similar to the voitlander bessa. Im surprised there has not been another company stepping up with a $1000 m mount rangefinder since the bessa/ikon zm
I think you need to start being careful with the half-arsed business knowledge you're throwing around. This has struck me a few times before when you talked about the business side of film. First of all, the notion that margins with 'cheaper' articles are generally lower is absolutely not true. It is pretty common brands, especially those with a focus on appearing like the premium, status-symbol type brands in their niche accept a lower margin on their top-end products to get it into more hands and and support the company image, then make the money on the smaller, mass market products. I wouldn't be surprised if Leica has similar margins on their premium compacts as compared to the M10 for example. Secondly, the notion that cost cutting for a 'cheaper' Leica M would happen in the form of them cutting some features from the MP or MA is stupid. Leica has an ongoing relationship with Panasonic for example, a possible Body for a cheaper camera could be made from polycarbonate instead of brass like the MP, companies like Cosina i am sure are capable of producing rangefinder mechanisms, supply suitable mechanical shutters etc.; Leica would most certainly not produce them in the same line as the MP or MA. third and last: When something says made in Germany, it cannot be made in Portugal and leica then simply slaps a 'Made in Germany' sticker on it. It is most certainly the case that many parts are made outside of germany and then assembled in Germany for example. Car companies have been doing this for a long time (spoiler alert: german cars are hardly made in germany, final assembly is done here so it can be called that). On a final note, i still believe it is unlikely Leica is planning to release a lower end film camera, although i would be ecstatic if it were to happen!
The Leica CL is or was the best value M body. I bought mine for around £100 about four years ago. Don’t waste money ( like I did) trying to get the meter fixed. It’s pretty distracting at the best of times. The upside is that the CL is super light with great frame lines easily seen even when wearing glasses . I love my Canon L2 more but there’s no denying how good the CL is.
M-Bessas (r2 etc...) are selling for nearly double the price they cost new, when they were availible. Cosina arleady did a lot of small production runs for niche products. I dont think a newly produced Bessa R2m or R2a would sit on the shelfes, even in big bigger production numbers and at todays equaled price, which would be between the former new price and the actual used one. Cosina even would have its own voigtländer lenses for the bessas.... i really wonder why Cosina is not reissueing a identical or improved Bessa....
Their main cost must be labor, especially if they make their own sub-assemblies. Now their partnership is with Panasonic. Maybe the question is whether they could consider making cameras in Asia.
CL is a good camera I don’t use mine werry often because the difference in size compared to an Mp tex is very small and it does not have the real Leica quality but it is still a good camera, had it been branded Nikon or something else it would probably have had a better reputation. Of course the Minolta version, but even if it lived a little longer, people associated it I can think of a bad Leica.
I wish Leica, Hasselblad and Fuji would come out with a fully mechanical 35mm pano camera shooting in the xpan aspect ratio! I’d sell a kidney for a new one of these, rather than 2x kidneys for a very old Xpan.
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Given the current prices for an M6 in the second-hand market, I'd say that the MP is cheap, taking into consideration that you're buying a brand new camera with a 2-year warranty in Europe.
The price of point and shoot film camera is going up, up, up. What about a ~$1500 35mm film point and shoot? Thats a little more than their digital point and shoot (need the high price because it will sell less).
I will try my luck and ask here - does anyone have experience with calibrating rangefinder on these analog CLs? Mine is off in infinity + also close distance :-(
I don't think there's so much point in a 3500 dollar Leica. If somebody can pay that for a camera, they'd easily afford an M-P as well. However I see business potential in a 1500 dollar manual film SLR or rangefinder (I'm thinking about something like a new Praktica MTL). Maybe not for now but the currently aviable cheap 80s and 90s SLRs will break for good some day in the future and somebody have to fill that nieche on the market.
I picked up a Nikon F5 body in great condition for $150. New, it probably cost $1200. These are fantastic professional cameras, rock solid, just about the peak of auto-focus SLR's.
Really wish Leica would make a volume production run of the M-A. It’s probably the only way to cut cost significantly without gutting features. No electronics and established product should mean less warranty claims and as you said, the camera sells fine on its own. This run would not be for Leica to generate great profits, but a signal to the industry that new film cameras have motivated buyers. I think the Leica stores would welcome the additional business, sell more lenses, basic service, etc…This should in turn translate to Canon, Nikon and Sony offering their own products and give film an honest shot at surviving a few more years (hopefully decades). Tired of fixing old cameras.
I think its always interesting to fantasize on how a company like Leica could sell a good film camera for cheaper. Where they could cut the cost is mainly on labor, making the camera built elsewhere like they did when they moved some of the production line in Canada. They could cut price on material like using aluminium for the body and plastics for the moving parts but it will definitly affect the brand image. Leica doesn't seems in a bad position right now, so it's less likely they would do something like that. Also I'm not sure but I'm convinced that Leica could produce way more MP and MA if they wanted to. The demand is still there even though they are selling the same product for so long and that those cameras can work more than a lifetime. Leica is artificially making them hard to get so they can keep the demande and the price tag super high. It's a tactic I've seen in the luxury fashion industries. Personally I'm just waiting for the next Leica M11 (I hope next week) so I can get a M10 for cheaper, haha.
julien, ELC the Canadian division of Leica did not make cheaper versions of their products. The cameras & lenses made in Canada were top notch Leica gear. You have no idea what you are talking about.
A cheap leica could cut price with a less complex body with plastic parts but mainly by buying a shutter with electronic control like from cosina and automize the production line of it. So to say a Bessa r but from leica
If the numbers looked right I could see them licensing out the name to some company that could make a cheap camera, but then it would just be a cheap camera and not really a Leica.
I'm sure Kokak and Ilford do the same. They prefer to sell less, but at high prices to be considered luxury products... 🙄 I photograph with Fomapan... As for cameras, I have an M4 and a CL, with just the 50mm Summarit f/2.5. Bought long before prices got stupid. I'm sorry I missed the Rokkor 40mm, which was worth, what, 200€? Anyway, I have a very good quality Rokkor f/1.7 on my 7sII bought for 4€... Sometimes I feel like selling all my Leica gear. A repair on my m4 cost me an arm and a leg, twice as much as it would have cost 3-4 years ago... Really, all this luxury around this brand lately makes me want to puke! Like many things in this days...
Not true, I traveled around Europe for 3 months with a CL & it took a lot of bumps & knocks & never missed a beat. I've had it for years & it still works fine, meter & all. I had it worked on a couple of times & it still works fine.
Found a Leitz CL with the 40 mm lens in mint condition at a local thrift store for $7 bucks. So far I'm enjoying mine!!!
i need to find that thrift store you and grainydays are going to
Thrift stores don't exist in the UK.
You are lucky as hell
I hate you. (Leitz CL with 40mm lens in mint condition for $7.)
I love my Leitz Minolta CL, it makes for a great lightweight daily carry, with excellent image quality; paired with the 40mm, a Voigtländer 25/4, and a Minolta 90/4, I have a fantastic three lens set up that packs up in a super compact bag, and does not weigh a lot.
On a budget, I would recommend the Canon rangefinders. Those made in the 50's and 60's take LTM lenses. Also, the Canon Cannonet IIIG makes a nice metered choice for a rangefinder, the 40mm f1.7 is a fixed lens, not interchangeable. All of these can be found for $150 to $300. Not Leica quality but nicely built, durable cameras.
I once had a Canon 7 in my Hand and can say that the buildquality ist realy high, the camera feals very heavy an strong, however i am not shure how durabel the Metal shutter is. But Overall a great camera, and Here in German If you are lucky you can Pick one up for less then 200€.
Love my Canon L2!
Love my Canons VT and VT Deluxe.👍🌟🌟🌟🌟👍
@@linjicakonikon7666 just got a VT first version, cant find much about her on the internet only about the DELUXE, can you share some infos with me about the VT
Even the Soviet Zorkis are a good bet. They are not as nicely finished as the Japanese cameras, let alone the Leicas but once you get them sorted out, they are nice, reliable cameras. Not to mention that they are laughably cheap (50-70 Euros for a working example with lenses on ebay but I've bought one on a flea market for like 10 Eur here in Hungary) and there's a really nice repair guide for them on the internet.
This is one of my favorite cameras ever, I don’t really know why. The design just suits me. Not ideal for large, fast lenses, but for a compact camera to carry all day it can’t be beat.
The Leica CL is, no kidding, amazing. I shoot it with a Zeiss 50mm Sonnar (superb compact 50) and gorgeous Summaron 35mm 3.5 M-mount. It's an amazing street shooter. The only "weaknesses" are 1) an iffy light meter - mine works great and was rewired by Sherry Krauter to accept modern batteries, 2) a fragile film spool - (if you can really call a 40 year old part that can be replaced as a negative) I had mine replaced with a bombproof spool 3d printed by an engineer in Scotland, and 3) an 8/10 build quality - for reference I would rate an M6 a 9/10 a MP a 10/10 and M3 11/10...in other words it's still a well built and greatly engineered camera.
All of this and other opinions on YT mean one thing - the film community is screaming out
For a new film camera, don’t really care who makes it, just want it made. As far as Leica goes, my M3 is still going strong and don’t see it failing ever as long as it’s gets it’s service when needed. M3’s and M2s will be still be working long after every M10 is dead.
The Leica cl came out at the same time as the Leica M5 they were the only metered Leica. The problem was it was better than the M5 in many ways at a cheaper price. This was a major reason way Leica discontinued it. The CL is a great little camera. Good ones are expensive on eBay.
The Leica CL was designed by Leitz but it was manufactured by Minolta in Japan.
Yup, its a fun little camera.
I have owned two of them one the original CL and the Minolta Marketed Leitz/Minolta Cl. They were never intended to be Leica M tough. The
lenses for them had a cam with a higher rise compared to the regular M mount thus the caveat about being incompatible. I have a
friend who has the 40mm Minollta lens He uses it on his M bodies without issue. Collapsible Leica 50mm lenses need a piece of label maker tape
so, they could not be pushed into the semaphore meter. Keep the cause of film going.
Leice cameras are now luxury stuff that you won't take them everywhere with you as they're insanely pricey. The best alternative is to get a Canon-P (with a good VF) and a good Leica lens (probably 50/1.5)
Absolutely love my CL
I think Leica needs to partner with a chinese or japanese camera manufacturer to make an authorized m mount rangefinder, similar to the voitlander bessa. Im surprised there has not been another company stepping up with a $1000 m mount rangefinder since the bessa/ikon zm
I think you need to start being careful with the half-arsed business knowledge you're throwing around. This has struck me a few times before when you talked about the business side of film.
First of all, the notion that margins with 'cheaper' articles are generally lower is absolutely not true. It is pretty common brands, especially those with a focus on appearing like the premium, status-symbol type brands in their niche accept a lower margin on their top-end products to get it into more hands and and support the company image, then make the money on the smaller, mass market products. I wouldn't be surprised if Leica has similar margins on their premium compacts as compared to the M10 for example.
Secondly, the notion that cost cutting for a 'cheaper' Leica M would happen in the form of them cutting some features from the MP or MA is stupid. Leica has an ongoing relationship with Panasonic for example, a possible Body for a cheaper camera could be made from polycarbonate instead of brass like the MP, companies like Cosina i am sure are capable of producing rangefinder mechanisms, supply suitable mechanical shutters etc.; Leica would most certainly not produce them in the same line as the MP or MA.
third and last: When something says made in Germany, it cannot be made in Portugal and leica then simply slaps a 'Made in Germany' sticker on it. It is most certainly the case that many parts are made outside of germany and then assembled in Germany for example. Car companies have been doing this for a long time (spoiler alert: german cars are hardly made in germany, final assembly is done here so it can be called that).
On a final note, i still believe it is unlikely Leica is planning to release a lower end film camera, although i would be ecstatic if it were to happen!
What is that lens? It’s amazing looking
Its the Lomography Minitar 32mm f/2.8 for Leica M mount. Its awesome and bad all in one. Its different and has come character for sure.
The Leica CL is or was the best value M body. I bought mine for around £100 about four years ago. Don’t waste money ( like I did) trying to get the meter fixed. It’s pretty distracting at the best of times. The upside is that the CL is super light with great frame lines easily seen even when wearing glasses . I love my Canon L2 more but there’s no denying how good the CL is.
Where did you pick yours up from?
I had the full Minolta CLE set in its days. The only camera I truly regret to have sold.
Actually the CLE was an improved version of the CL eventually.
i Just bought a CLE with the 40mm and so fare it was a very good chois.
M-Bessas (r2 etc...) are selling for nearly double the price they cost new, when they were availible. Cosina arleady did a lot of small production runs for niche products. I dont think a newly produced Bessa R2m or R2a would sit on the shelfes, even in big bigger production numbers and at todays equaled price, which would be between the former new price and the actual used one. Cosina even would have its own voigtländer lenses for the bessas.... i really wonder why Cosina is not reissueing a identical or improved Bessa....
I agree completely it doesn’t make sense especially since they’re selling m mount lenses still
I recall hearing (a rumour) that Cosina stopped making Bessas because their subcontractor stopped making the shutters
Thinking about getting the Vivitar ES35mm. Please let me know if this is any good? I was told it's a Leica clone.
Love my CL! The 40mm f2 it was outfitted with is really nice too.
Their main cost must be labor, especially if they make their own sub-assemblies. Now their partnership is with Panasonic. Maybe the question is whether they could consider making cameras in Asia.
That rumour ended up as the return of the M6.
CL is a good camera I don’t use mine werry often because the difference in size compared to an Mp tex is very small and it does not have the real Leica quality but it is still a good camera, had it been branded Nikon or something else it would probably have had a better reputation. Of course the Minolta version, but even if it lived a little longer, people associated it I can think of a bad Leica.
What lens is on the CL please?
Lomo Minitar 32mm.
The Leica MP and MA cameras are the only film cameras they need to make. When you're the best, be the best.
What kind of lens on this video?
Same question!
I wish Leica, Hasselblad and Fuji would come out with a fully mechanical 35mm pano camera shooting in the xpan aspect ratio!
I’d sell a kidney for a new one of these, rather than 2x kidneys for a very old Xpan.
Given the current prices for an M6 in the second-hand market, I'd say that the MP is cheap, taking into consideration that you're buying a brand new camera with a 2-year warranty in Europe.
The price of point and shoot film camera is going up, up, up. What about a ~$1500 35mm film point and shoot? Thats a little more than their digital point and shoot (need the high price because it will sell less).
Rolls Royce also does not produce compacts, do they?
I have used CL and it is a good camera but I agree the canon or even the Nikon range finders are great.
I will try my luck and ask here - does anyone have experience with calibrating rangefinder on these analog CLs? Mine is off in infinity + also close distance :-(
I don't think there's so much point in a 3500 dollar Leica. If somebody can pay that for a camera, they'd easily afford an M-P as well. However I see business potential in a 1500 dollar manual film SLR or rangefinder (I'm thinking about something like a new Praktica MTL). Maybe not for now but the currently aviable cheap 80s and 90s SLRs will break for good some day in the future and somebody have to fill that nieche on the market.
I picked up a Nikon F5 body in great condition for $150. New, it probably cost $1200. These are fantastic professional cameras, rock solid, just about the peak of auto-focus SLR's.
Really wish Leica would make a volume production run of the M-A. It’s probably the only way to cut cost significantly without gutting features. No electronics and established product should mean less warranty claims and as you said, the camera sells fine on its own. This run would not be for Leica to generate great profits, but a signal to the industry that new film cameras have motivated buyers. I think the Leica stores would welcome the additional business, sell more lenses, basic service, etc…This should in turn translate to Canon, Nikon and Sony offering their own products and give film an honest shot at surviving a few more years (hopefully decades). Tired of fixing old cameras.
had my eye on one of these for months!
Good points, well made.
I think its always interesting to fantasize on how a company like Leica could sell a good film camera for cheaper. Where they could cut the cost is mainly on labor, making the camera built elsewhere like they did when they moved some of the production line in Canada. They could cut price on material like using aluminium for the body and plastics for the moving parts but it will definitly affect the brand image. Leica doesn't seems in a bad position right now, so it's less likely they would do something like that. Also I'm not sure but I'm convinced that Leica could produce way more MP and MA if they wanted to. The demand is still there even though they are selling the same product for so long and that those cameras can work more than a lifetime. Leica is artificially making them hard to get so they can keep the demande and the price tag super high. It's a tactic I've seen in the luxury fashion industries.
Personally I'm just waiting for the next Leica M11 (I hope next week) so I can get a M10 for cheaper, haha.
julien, ELC the Canadian division of Leica did not make cheaper versions of their products. The cameras & lenses made in Canada were top notch Leica gear. You have no idea what you are talking about.
A cheap leica could cut price with a less complex body with plastic parts but mainly by buying a shutter with electronic control like from cosina and automize the production line of it. So to say a Bessa r but from leica
If the numbers looked right I could see them licensing out the name to some company that could make a cheap camera, but then it would just be a cheap camera and not really a Leica.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Hmmm... in regards to that cheap Leica, would it be smart to get the Russian bear awaken?
featuring a pretty big pocket
Had to do it!
well spotted. shows Leica people have deep pockets :)
Si hacen una mas barata que no falle tanto como la CL, yo landevolví. Lastima porque ese 40mm me encanta, pero en la M no hay frames de 40mm :(
Maybe they will ask Cosina to make FM10 with M or L mount and rebrand it as Leica SL-F hahah
Anybody buying an M6 for 3K is an idiot. It’s not even that great of an M.
well now these are going up in price
I bought 20 before making the video!! Better than Bitcoin
Leica will do a cheaper camera so people who have 1500-2500$ give them to Leica instead of getting a vintage M2-M6.
Leica chose not to build enough MP’s.
Could be, keep supply “limited”. Its not the first time in luxury brands.
@@NicosPhotographyShow The Leica CL was designed by Leitz but was manufactured by Minolta in Japan.
I'm sure Kokak and Ilford do the same. They prefer to sell less, but at high prices to be considered luxury products... 🙄
I photograph with Fomapan... As for cameras, I have an M4 and a CL, with just the 50mm Summarit f/2.5. Bought long before prices got stupid. I'm sorry I missed the Rokkor 40mm, which was worth, what, 200€? Anyway, I have a very good quality Rokkor f/1.7 on my 7sII bought for 4€... Sometimes I feel like selling all my Leica gear. A repair on my m4 cost me an arm and a leg, twice as much as it would have cost 3-4 years ago... Really, all this luxury around this brand lately makes me want to puke! Like many things in this days...
I agree, Leica would be shooting themselves in the foot by diluting the brand. Highly unlikely.
Cut out the film hahaha
A flawed camera, most unreliable, even the newer Minolta versions.. Stay away>Trouble and expensive.
Yes I had one back in the day. The semaphore light meter got stuck often. Then you had a nice paperweight. I much preferred my ds M3
Not true, I traveled around Europe for 3 months with a CL & it took a lot of bumps & knocks & never missed a beat. I've had it for years & it still works fine, meter & all. I had it worked on a couple of times & it still works fine.