Which it really can't because of the H frame - drivers would need to be really close (as in a push-pull configuration) for distortion cancellation. Still a good idea because of the more equal weight distribution (the magnets).
Hi Mike - long time listener - first time caller - lol I run a pair of subs that were custom built for Ray Kimber that I picked up from his warehouse about 5 years ago with my Magnepans and it’s still the best match I’ve found. They are a sealed almost cube with Cabasse 21” drivers (I believe that’s the brand). I think the reason they pair so seamlessly is because the drivers barely move at all - just like the Magnepan panels. I can’t tell sonically where the panel ends and the subs begin. So to sum up - a really large and well made driver with minimal movement seems to do the trick nicely. I don’t know the model number of the drivers and don’t know if they’re still manufactured. They’re 21” - the cone is coated in what looks and feels like black felt. I’m not going to remove the driver to check because they are really heavy and I’d hate to damage them.
I woulda stuck with the MDF... but hey... regardless, I HIGHLY recommend you install the no-res foam in each of the air chambers, it makes a genuine positive contribution. The one is reversed because the weight would all be on one side and they would be very tippy, all the cones have to move together , as in the reversed install sub gets wired in + to - etc. Trust me on this, 3 woofers is gonna be plenty...
Great video Mikey! I've been eyeing Danny's servo subs for a couple weeks to pair with my 1.7i. When I ordered crossover parts from him for my MMGs I expressed concern over his servo subs being able to keep up with Maggies. He said the Maggies might have trouble keeping up with his servo subs. Great to hear from you it wasn't just talk!
Mike, 1. The drivers coils are wired in parallel and the sensing coils are wired in series. 2. There is not a force cancelling effect. The center woofer does not move in the opposite direction from the outer woofers. If it did then it would cancel out the output. All drivers move in the same direction. 3. The No Rez should not be installed to touch the woofers, and yes it does take out the cabinet resonances. 4. Be sure that you flip the polarity on the center driver (both driver and sensing coils) with it flipped the other way or it will knock the output down significantly.
Hey D, good to have your response,. thanks... ok so ive got the servo sensor wired in reverse for the center sub, but the driver wires do NOT show reversed on the diagram. So which is correct, the diagram or what you just said, to reverse the center driver, next, when I reverse the center driver which wires get reversed, the input /source feed from below or the output/load to the top ? Or both ? This stuff plus having the center woofer reversed in the cab would be excellent info for the wiring diagram.. Thx
@@OCDHIFiGuy I didn't realize that you were reversing the center woofer. I have diagrams for both. And yes, if you reverse the way a woofer faces then you have to reverse the polarity of the coils on both the driver and sensing coils. All woofer diaphragms have to move in the same direction.
@@dannyrichie9743 Is there any benefit to reversing the center woofer if its not about forces ? To be clear about sensing coils since they are in series, normal wiring per my diagram (if we start at bottom and move up) comes off amp red and goes to bottom woof red post then we come off black to red in middle woof then off black in middle up to red on top woof then black back down to amp. For the reverse, you want me to go out of bottom woofer from black to black middle woofer then red to red on top woofer then black back down to amp ?
They may be out of phase on purpose. I don’t know the way Danny means for them to be. But I know bands have subs stacked, inverted physically but with the same phase to cancel out the pressure on the stage. Not sure if this is meant to be implemented the same way or not. I’d love to hear Danny’s answer and reasoning.
Dude, nice system I dig these subs! I believe these are the ones I checked out at Axpona last year fwiw; the physical reversal of the driver isn't anything related to the driver's mechanical forces, it's to null the acoustic differences inherent in a driver's asymmetrical stroke characteristics as stated it's ideally effective in even numbers, and how significant the advantage is driver dependent
OCD HI-Fi Guy You could modify the bottom to house the plate amp by removing the bottom piece of wood and replace it with the box to hose the amp. It will also lift the subs up off the floor level matching the Maggie’s. Just a thought
Mike, how would you compare the open baffle subs from GR Research with REL S or TX? I have Maggie LRSs and looking to pair with really fast tight but low bass. The idea is that the home theater will be primary use (60%) but music will be played as well (40%).
Motional Feedback System as invented by Royal Philips NV in the seventies. Just like the cassette deck, DAT, compact disc, SACD, sea to air missile defense system firing one mill bullets per second and the condom.
hi mike wondering how these open servo subs do with music like dub step and groups like infected mushroom and shipongle i do like to get dirty like that at times . do they get you deep in to bowels with the bass ? i know they won't boom like my ht big old crappy one but will hold up ? thanks brother and keep up the great work we need this with all the crap in this world now ppl need to take a breath and relax and be good to each other .
You are always welcome at the HiFi Tribe Party, Ron ! Thanks for introducing Danny on your channels Tech Talk, I felt more solid buying from him after hearing him talk. I said "Yep, Hes an engineer allright " and thats all it takes. So many years of interfacing with Engineers, its clear to see the ones I'll trust my rig to.. All the best buddy and congrats on the new delivery ! You are more of a man than I ;-)..
Very fast and clean bass but with rather compromised dynamism, compared to your old subs. Could we listen to that "Flight of the cosmic Hippo" track and a little bit of Mahler again? (I mean, we haven't heard this track on your old subs, so, no comparison...). I'm already wondering how Danny's single-woofer, servo-ed sealed sub might sound. Again, thanks for sharing. The experience shared is invaluable.
Hey FR, Tomorrow I will rewire per Dannys instruction as he sent the wrong wiring diagram thinking I was putting all subs forward, then I will replay Mahler(do you remember which one it was?) and cosmic hippo
@@OCDHIFiGuy It was Gustav Mahler's Symphony No. 2 "Resurrection" with Claudio Abbado directing the Lucerne Festival Orchestra. But it was with only your Klipsches playing, so, no sub comparison again. Still, the exact piece played at your older video " Gustav Mahler at 104 decibels. HEAVY METAL of the Era.", would be a great test for the new subs and main rig. I had the suspicion too, that something (wiring) was compromising the output.
The way REL does and I cant stand this method but it does work I guess... you attach wires to the speaker outputs of t=your amp and run them to the high level input of the subwoofer plate amp. If you are buying subs make sure they have that capability first as not all do.
OCD HI-Fi Guy thanks how do you connect them? I heard the GR sub for the first time the other day and the sounded too dry for my taste Can you make them sound more like a 15” JBL driver?
D.R. is def someone to listen to. I just keep forgetting to go to his chan. Thanks for reminding me. Big thanks ! I didn’t see the flat packs on his site? Just to be sure the Servo sub NEEDs the Servo Amp.
When he said I'm going to turn down the lights for this, I was like.....wait wait what? There are none, to begin with. All super interesting but I can't see ANYTHING!
Now you have to fix all the resonances the two doors behind, and the room behind, are adding to your sound. I reckon I can say 'trust me on this one' due to the changes in my big room when I sorted out the door behind...
I dont need to trust you on this one as Im already a believer. Acoustics is a science and its clear that it makes a diff. Both doors are sealed/treated. Thanks for looking out tho !
Open baffle, cool. Servo, gimmick that no one else sees the need to include. Rather they use powerful amps that grip the drivers. Not even REL uses servos. And they could.
Do it with no hesitation. Its one of the best audiophile rites of passage. You will learn a completely different idea of what "imaging" mesns if set up properly. Theres a thread im leading on 11stereo.com to help everyone get them placed and dialed in..
@@OCDHIFiGuy I have heard good things about these, hearing your setup even over youtube,.. it just sounds like it has very good depth. Not to mention they are very cool and pretty unique. I think I am going to have to get some. Thank you for the reply! :)
What the hell are you doing with lighting you need to light the area when filming turning light down for mood ffs what an amateur move your audience cant see what you've filmed.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 87 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องชัย vs โชคปรีชา"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YN6e7HVnekw/mqdefault.jpg)
The backwards driver is to reduce second-order distortion not to counteract the forces of the other drivers
Which it really can't because of the H frame - drivers would need to be really close (as in a push-pull configuration) for distortion cancellation. Still a good idea because of the more equal weight distribution (the magnets).
Oh so that's what those are. I was thinking of building those. They sound perfect.
Hi Mike - long time listener - first time caller - lol
I run a pair of subs that were custom built for Ray Kimber that I picked up from his warehouse about 5 years ago with my Magnepans and it’s still the best match I’ve found.
They are a sealed almost cube with Cabasse 21” drivers (I believe that’s the brand). I think the reason they pair so seamlessly is because the drivers barely move at all - just like the Magnepan panels. I can’t tell sonically where the panel ends and the subs begin.
So to sum up - a really large and well made driver with minimal movement seems to do the trick nicely.
I don’t know the model number of the drivers and don’t know if they’re still manufactured. They’re 21” - the cone is coated in what looks and feels like black felt. I’m not going to remove the driver to check because they are really heavy and I’d hate to damage them.
Wow, killer Score man ! Ive played with the idea of 21's mounted in a closet with an open face to the room... One day .... :-)
great to hear your thoughts and review of these subs. i definitely look forward to doing some gr research diy projects in the future
Do it !
I woulda stuck with the MDF... but hey... regardless, I HIGHLY recommend you install the no-res foam in each of the air chambers, it makes a genuine positive contribution. The one is reversed because the weight would all be on one side and they would be very tippy, all the cones have to move together , as in the reversed install sub gets wired in + to - etc. Trust me on this, 3 woofers is gonna be plenty...
Mine would not be tippy due to the base I added that is not on Dannys plans. And fi he remembers to send me foam, Ive ordered it ... Thx !
Great video Mikey! I've been eyeing Danny's servo subs for a couple weeks to pair with my 1.7i. When I ordered crossover parts from him for my MMGs I expressed concern over his servo subs being able to keep up with Maggies. He said the Maggies might have trouble keeping up with his servo subs. Great to hear from you it wasn't just talk!
Thanks Man, they are great !
So far they are pretty sweet... Although they make a flat panel sub planar.... Lol 700$
Ah I’ve been wanting to check out Danny’s subs.. especially the H frame open baffle
Well here they are !
i know I am pretty randomly asking but do anyone know of a good place to watch newly released movies online?
@Malik Cannon Flixportal =)
@Anders Milan thanks, I went there and it seems like they got a lot of movies there :) Appreciate it!!
@Malik Cannon Glad I could help :D
These are the best subs I've ever heard, end of story.
You should hear them in my room with my new speakers that crush the magnepan
@@OCDHIFiGuy what's your new speakers?
Great Information in the Servo Subs! Thanks for making this video.
You bet Kap !
Exceptional choice for low end for Maggies. I also chose servo's for mine. Great match! D.R. knows audio physics.
Danny Boy in the House !
I was just learning about those kits earlier today. Crazy
Look whose on point Scotty !
Mike,
1. The drivers coils are wired in parallel and the sensing coils are wired in series.
2. There is not a force cancelling effect. The center woofer does not move in the opposite direction from the outer woofers. If it did then it would cancel out the output. All drivers move in the same direction.
3. The No Rez should not be installed to touch the woofers, and yes it does take out the cabinet resonances.
4. Be sure that you flip the polarity on the center driver (both driver and sensing coils) with it flipped the other way or it will knock the output down significantly.
Hey D, good to have your response,. thanks... ok so ive got the servo sensor wired in reverse for the center sub, but the driver wires do NOT show reversed on the diagram. So which is correct, the diagram or what you just said, to reverse the center driver, next, when I reverse the center driver which wires get reversed, the input /source feed from below or the output/load to the top ? Or both ? This stuff plus having the center woofer reversed in the cab would be excellent info for the wiring diagram.. Thx
@@OCDHIFiGuy I didn't realize that you were reversing the center woofer. I have diagrams for both.
And yes, if you reverse the way a woofer faces then you have to reverse the polarity of the coils on both the driver and sensing coils. All woofer diaphragms have to move in the same direction.
@@dannyrichie9743 Is there any benefit to reversing the center woofer if its not about forces ?
To be clear about sensing coils since they are in series, normal wiring per my diagram (if we start at bottom and move up) comes off amp red and goes to bottom woof red post then we come off black to red in middle woof then off black in middle up to red on top woof then black back down to amp. For the reverse, you want me to go out of bottom woofer from black to black middle woofer then red to red on top woofer then black back down to amp ?
Built a set of these last summer....with 2, not 3, though. Really enjoy them.
Yes, for sure..
The "pistons" do not go in opposite directions, Mikey. The one mounted backwards gets wired out of phase so they all move in the same direction.
Ye'p!
Strange, im looking at Dannys diagram right now and theres no inversion on that woofers feed.
@@OCDHIFiGuy maybe, he has a different secret sauce. Ask him, why.
@@mititeimaricei Aiight Denz
They may be out of phase on purpose. I don’t know the way Danny means for them to be. But I know bands have subs stacked, inverted physically but with the same phase to cancel out the pressure on the stage. Not sure if this is meant to be implemented the same way or not. I’d love to hear Danny’s answer and reasoning.
Dude, nice system
I dig these subs!
I believe these are the ones I checked out at Axpona last year
fwiw;
the physical reversal of the driver isn't anything related to the driver's mechanical forces, it's to null the acoustic differences inherent in a driver's asymmetrical stroke characteristics
as stated it's ideally effective in even numbers, and how significant the advantage is driver dependent
Just think best of both worlds; Acoustic Elegance O.B. subs.
There is no better driver for O.B. than John Janowitz' dipole optimized drivers.
Great video sounds amazing! 👍😎 Maybe build the plate amps into the bottom of the sub cabinets?
How ? Its an open H Frame and has a heat sink
OCD HI-Fi Guy You could modify the bottom to house the plate amp by removing the bottom piece of wood and replace it with the box to hose the amp. It will also lift the subs up off the floor level matching the Maggie’s. Just a thought
So fast and so tight bass.
Goosebumps!
Add this to the list of ideas that died on the vine
Right? CHINA..... thats all I have to say ... DOOP !
Subs sound good and clean but I’m hearing too much of them need to turn them down a little bit
Mike, how would you compare the open baffle subs from GR Research with REL S or TX? I have Maggie LRSs and looking to pair with really fast tight but low bass. The idea is that the home theater will be primary use (60%) but music will be played as well (40%).
Motional Feedback System as invented by Royal Philips NV in the seventies. Just like the cassette deck, DAT, compact disc, SACD, sea to air missile defense system firing one mill bullets per second and the condom.
Thats great, there is ONE company in the USA that makes Servo Subs.. I dont get it these things seem like "must have" type woofers
These are great subs!
Word up
hi mike wondering how these open servo subs do with music like dub step and groups like infected mushroom and shipongle i do like to get dirty like that at times . do they get you deep in to bowels with the bass ? i know they won't boom like my ht big old crappy one but will hold up ? thanks brother and keep up the great work we need this with all the crap in this world now ppl need to take a breath and relax and be good to each other .
Sounds amazing dude
It gets better bro .. ;-)
Welcome to the party 🎉
You are always welcome at the HiFi Tribe Party, Ron ! Thanks for introducing Danny on your channels Tech Talk, I felt more solid buying from him after hearing him talk. I said "Yep, Hes an engineer allright " and thats all it takes. So many years of interfacing with Engineers, its clear to see the ones I'll trust my rig to..
All the best buddy and congrats on the new delivery ! You are more of a man than I ;-)..
Are you no longer selling these? I don't see them on your website.
I never did.. only the frames were a thought...
The subs are very good,but what brand are the huge magnestotatics by them?I have two pairs of 3.6 Magnepan,but yours are huge.
Analysis Audio Amphitryon I also have 3.7i totally modded .. I love planar magnetic speakers ..
Why turn the lighting down, would love to see what you are referencing
Sorry Man, it was not my intent . I had set a camera setting wrong
@@OCDHIFiGuy post a replacement video where one can see something and do justice to these great subs, its such a depressing video, please!
How do we purchase a set of the H frames from you? Can the woofers be installed all facing front as an alternative on your frames?
Hi Sergio, I aswered your email, you did great on knowing how to contact me . yes, we can make them all point forward..
Very fast and clean bass but with rather compromised dynamism, compared to your old subs. Could we listen to that "Flight of the cosmic Hippo" track and a little bit of Mahler again? (I mean, we haven't heard this track on your old subs, so, no comparison...). I'm already wondering how Danny's single-woofer, servo-ed sealed sub might sound. Again, thanks for sharing. The experience shared is invaluable.
Hey FR, Tomorrow I will rewire per Dannys instruction as he sent the wrong wiring diagram thinking I was putting all subs forward, then I will replay Mahler(do you remember which one it was?) and cosmic hippo
@@OCDHIFiGuy It was Gustav Mahler's Symphony No. 2 "Resurrection"
with Claudio Abbado directing the
Lucerne Festival Orchestra. But it was with only your Klipsches playing, so, no sub comparison again. Still, the exact piece played at your older video "
Gustav Mahler at 104 decibels. HEAVY METAL of the Era.", would be a great test for the new subs and main rig. I had the suspicion too, that something (wiring) was compromising the output.
Your video's too dark, I need more lighting please
Not going to happen on this one sorry... I found out my camera issue though .. My apology
Thanks
Sir do u sale finished product of GR research? Thanks
Hi how do you connect the subs if all you have is an integrated amp with no outputs
The way REL does and I cant stand this method but it does work I guess... you attach wires to the speaker outputs of t=your amp and run them to the high level input of the subwoofer plate amp. If you are buying subs make sure they have that capability first as not all do.
OCD HI-Fi Guy thanks how do you connect them?
I heard the GR sub for the first time the other day and the sounded too dry for my taste
Can you make them sound more like a 15” JBL driver?
Anyone have a tiny bit of help with wiring.. I've finished the kit but might have screwed up
Just call me dude..
Ocd does these subs work with buchard S400 speakers and if so can you demo them?
I dont have the Buchardts , they were sold as i dont use Monitors, you could use just one sub per side with the monitors..
OCD HI-Fi Guy how much for your one sub build?
You could also just use one of these towers
I dont buy the non discreet Left and right low freq thing.
I have a 23'x23' room would a pair be enough?
Yes, 3 subs per side.. Let em know if you want the cabinets
Next video I want less talk more of subs in action. Great accurate bass.
Next video I want milk and cookies and a BJ... Thanks , will do..
Tigt, tight, tight!
totally..
D.R. is def someone to listen to. I just keep forgetting to go to his chan. Thanks for reminding me. Big thanks ! I didn’t see the flat packs on his site? Just to be sure the Servo sub NEEDs the Servo Amp.
Flat packs are found form a link on his site. Links to a forum
Almost then changed the f stop pooor lighting
I know, sorry
Hey Mike
Aren’t you now as curious as I am about Danny’s HF speakers now?????
Could they be better than Maggie’s ?
Watch the next Vid, I may have found Maggie Killers.
Why in the heck is it a server video when there’s no service involved it’s just coils can you please tell me why
Its not a server vid. Its a servo controlled subwoofer.
Lighting please... you need to invest in lights man. Thanks.
When he said I'm going to turn down the lights for this, I was like.....wait wait what? There are none, to begin with. All super interesting but I can't see ANYTHING!
Now you have to fix all the resonances the two doors behind, and the room behind, are adding to your sound. I reckon I can say 'trust me on this one' due to the changes in my big room when I sorted out the door behind...
I dont need to trust you on this one as Im already a believer. Acoustics is a science and its clear that it makes a diff. Both doors are sealed/treated. Thanks for looking out tho !
I knew that was Fink the first 6 seconds though I have not heard that song
Its an album done with an Orchestra..
Hey next time wait till you pay the light bill
LOL, Touche !
Why is Rythmik audio in the title?
Because thats the brand of the subs and amps. Am I missing something here ?
Why do u sell them if they are that good?
Thats a funny question. I only sell things that are the best I can find.. I am a dealer and this is my career.
Open baffle, cool. Servo, gimmick that no one else sees the need to include. Rather they use powerful amps that grip the drivers. Not even REL uses servos. And they could.
What is your opinion on magnepan mmg? :)
I am thinking about buying a set
Do it with no hesitation. Its one of the best audiophile rites of passage. You will learn a completely different idea of what "imaging" mesns if set up properly. Theres a thread im leading on 11stereo.com to help everyone get them placed and dialed in..
@@OCDHIFiGuy I have heard good things about these, hearing your setup even over youtube,.. it just sounds like it has very good depth.
Not to mention they are very cool and pretty unique. I think I am going to have to get some. Thank you for the reply! :)
@@Donkusdelux they can go far if you take them there. Its a good thing anyways to "round out" your listening and setup experience.
They also have the LRS that's prob the one I would get
Get the lighting dialed in !
It is homey, look at that date
What the hell are you doing with lighting you need to light the area when filming turning light down for mood ffs what an amateur move your audience cant see what you've filmed.
To mutch of "Humm", sorry man.
no hum in my rig. 100% differential balanced