It's funny because the Ancestor not only fucked his Hamlet but also the whole Kingdom. ,,In time you will know the tragic extent of my failings" hits different now
@@ellanenish5999 Didn't use it enough to justify having it around. Plus moderating it felt like a distraction from making videos. My productivity improved 100 fold after it was gone. If you want another Discord for Darkest Dungeon I recommend the official one by Red Hook.
I love the idea that each separate game of darkest dungeon could be happening in its own time loop. Also I loved that east to west joke, feels almost like yesterday when you got blindsided by that change on a stream. Also can’t wait for whatever you have planned next Misk.
Also a valid time frame. I just include it in that time jump between the Prophet and the Miller since we don't know what he was up to during that time. He probably could have gone traveling to the countryside and met with other cabals of the occult.
I like to imagine that calling upon the Sleeper has granted the ancestor assurance for his, and the heart’s grand plan; but inadvertently, created its own prison, trapping itself in time to live, and live again, yet never able to fully gestate.
I know for a fact that Reynauld and Dismas remember each other, or at the very least the latter does. During the Crusader sidequest, Dismas says "I'm looking for my friend - big guy, armor. Seen him?" The bromance is indeed real.
a hypothesis i came up with one day is that the heart of darkness directly showed the ancestor the vision of what the protege would do if he was not distracted by the pursuit of the iron crown. and as a solution the ancestor, set up similar stones to that around the mill just before he wrote and sent the letter in hopes that it would draw their attention to the estate to trap and keep them there while the rest of the kingdom was safe. of course, it wouldnt make any sense with not only the swine leaving to inhabit the sluice, but also the stagecoach that left and returned with heros.
Memorialist, I have heard of tales from another land, in another world. A land of familiar horrors, where the destiny of mankind controlled by the hand of gods hovering above, and where there is also a dungeon that holds eldritch truths and horrors. A dungeon, not of only darkness... but of *Fear and Hunger.* I'd love to hear you regale us with its lore, someday.
Not to mention having multiple of the same class/character at a time. I can suspend my disbelief for someone like the Crusader or Plague Doctor, but how exactly do you explain more than one of the Abomination?
I really like the theory people come up for the two games. Your threoy is both my favorite and well something i went with. My theory is that the people are echos of what we have met they and are people that we know and came across so to help us tred the trials of the dungeon. A difficult job is easier with people that you both know and like.
Hi Misk! What a fantastic video. It dovetails nicely with something I've been thinking about lately, which is my overall view of how the two stories are connected at the highest level. Spoilers ahead everybody. I divide the timeline of DD1/2 into three time references: the past, the time loop, and the future. The time loop is effectively replacing the present, since during the course of the two games, the linear progression of time is clearly not quite there yet. Let's start with the past. It's clear that the Ancestor, the Mentor, and the Protege are basically contemporaneous. They were involved in somewhat similar, but not entirely overlapping inquiries. The Ancestor as we know was dabbling with a variety of things: necromancy, blood magic, the comet ritual, and more. Since he is a nobleman, not an academic, even though he's certainly erudite, his efforts seem less focused and more eclectic in the early years: he looks into whatever strikes his fancy. It's only the dig that will truly become a consuming obsession. Because of their academic backgrounds, the Mentor and the Protege make a much more cohesive discovery about the worship of the Iron Crown. It's clear that the Ancestor also thought something was up with the IC, but I don't think he ever fully understood what it was about. So in the past, we're dealing with two discoveries. And if I had to summarise them, I would say that the Ancestor has discovered an unborn god, gestating inside our planet like an egg, while the Mentor and Protege have discovered a fully mature god: the Iron Crown. After all, if the Heart is destined to burst forth from the shell and give birth to a new god, this perhaps suggests that there is an "eldritch life cycle" to gods, in which case, where are the adult gods, what do they look like, what are they up to? I think the Iron Crown is one such. It's an eldritch cosmic entity that's been around for a long time, while the Heart is still gestating. Neither discovery is a singular eureka moment: they mature over time. The Ancestor keeps discovering more about the nature of the world as he digs deeper down. The Protege is put on the path that leads to Iron Crown worship by encountering the Ancestor. In both cases, by the time these characters know exactly what they're dealing with, we get the culminating event that ends the past and establishes the time loop, thus breaking time itself: the Ancestor binds himself to the heart through ritualistic suicide, and the Protege invokes the Iron Crown. What you have with this set up is the invocation of an old god and a new god respectively, who are invited into the world and given the power to alter it. However, they do so on different levels. The Iron Crown is remaking the entire world, and breaks time on a planetary scale (at least). The Heart, however, seems only able to influence the hamlet and its environs. There are several possible reasons why that is. It's possible that the Iron Crown is simply a higher level of cosmic being. Or it's due to the fact that the Iron Crown is a "mature" cosmic entity rather than an eldritch fetus. Maybe the Heart can influence the Hamlet because of the pit, the digging; or maybe because of its connection with the Ancestor. What's certainly beyond doubt however is that the time loops seem unable to over-write each other, if that makes sense. The farmstead is in a separate loop caused by the Sleeper, the hamlet is in a loop caused by the Heart, neither of these loops gets overwritten by the Iron Crown and the Mountain. (I will have more to speculate about the Mountain when your video on it comes out eventually lol). The two games both take place in "the present" i.e. the time loop. It's unclear how long has passed since the twin rituals broke time itself. However, they diverge considerably when it comes to the future. DD1 posits complete failure to break the time loop, but DD2 does allow you to succeed in breaking the loop. This leads me to further questions, such as - can anyone from the outside solve the Hamlet's time loop and/or prevent the Heart from hatching, or is our fate still sealed? And speculatively, if the Iron Crown was left undisturbed, would it prevent the Heart from hatching, or would it still be powerless to stop the complete end of the world? I'll close the essay here for now. Thanks for the great content, keep it up and look after yourself!
I appreciate the essay, I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking of these kinds of things. As for your questions. In my opinion, the Estate was Doomed the moment the Ancestor reached the Darkest Dungeon. The moment he opened that door and let the Heart's corruption loose, the Estate was lost. The people there, specifically the parts trapped there are forever condemned to repeat the cycle to stop the Heart from awaking. Holding the line in the face of oblivion, stalemate is victory. Hypothetically, could something else stop the Heart, maybe... but the cost of such a thing could mean the destruction of the planet like we saw in the ending. There is the theory that the Sleeper was the summoned by the Ancestor for that specific reason. Not to Kill the Heart but to put it back to sleep. Problem again is that we'd be forced to deal with the Sleeper, and we're right back to another siege on an Outer God. As for The Iron Crown and DD2, you'll have to wait for my videos :)
I love these lore videos thank you for your work! Wouldnt you consider doing one for each character? Maybe you can use the narrator lines for each one together with their own lore missions
Very quality video. I wonder how does one leave the time loop in the Hamlet? Do other heroes who appear in the original game and not appear in the sequel are still there?
It's funny because the Ancestor not only fucked his Hamlet but also the whole Kingdom. ,,In time you will know the tragic extent of my failings" hits different now
Local man ruined everything . . . And then inspired local protege to ruined everything too.
Man it’s great to listen to your commentary again on darkest dungeon
It's great to get back into it man.
@@MiskatonicMemorialistI'm sorry I have to ask, what happened to the Discord server, it was a Perfect place
@@ellanenish5999 Didn't use it enough to justify having it around. Plus moderating it felt like a distraction from making videos. My productivity improved 100 fold after it was gone.
If you want another Discord for Darkest Dungeon I recommend the official one by Red Hook.
I love the idea that each separate game of darkest dungeon could be happening in its own time loop. Also I loved that east to west joke, feels almost like yesterday when you got blindsided by that change on a stream. Also can’t wait for whatever you have planned next Misk.
I would argue that the ancestors call was during the time he summoned experts on the occult to "plumb the depths of their knowledge".
Also a valid time frame. I just include it in that time jump between the Prophet and the Miller since we don't know what he was up to during that time.
He probably could have gone traveling to the countryside and met with other cabals of the occult.
I like to imagine that calling upon the Sleeper has granted the ancestor assurance for his, and the heart’s grand plan; but inadvertently, created its own prison, trapping itself in time to live, and live again, yet never able to fully gestate.
I know for a fact that Reynauld and Dismas remember each other, or at the very least the latter does. During the Crusader sidequest, Dismas says "I'm looking for my friend - big guy, armor. Seen him?" The bromance is indeed real.
If those who leave the manor are those who are ready to face their fears, could Wilbur be doing the same?
a hypothesis i came up with one day is that the heart of darkness directly showed the ancestor the vision of what the protege would do if he was not distracted by the pursuit of the iron crown. and as a solution the ancestor, set up similar stones to that around the mill just before he wrote and sent the letter in hopes that it would draw their attention to the estate to trap and keep them there while the rest of the kingdom was safe.
of course, it wouldnt make any sense with not only the swine leaving to inhabit the sluice, but also the stagecoach that left and returned with heros.
Memorialist, I have heard of tales from another land, in another world. A land of familiar horrors, where the destiny of mankind controlled by the hand of gods hovering above, and where there is also a dungeon that holds eldritch truths and horrors.
A dungeon, not of only darkness... but of *Fear and Hunger.*
I'd love to hear you regale us with its lore, someday.
i missed your stuff man glad to see another upload hope your doing better
Hey it just occurred to me that the time loops would explain the Collector and why we can get our heroes heads while they are still alive and well
Not to mention having multiple of the same class/character at a time. I can suspend my disbelief for someone like the Crusader or Plague Doctor, but how exactly do you explain more than one of the Abomination?
Out of all the returning enemies, I’m glad the Hag’s Coven didn’t come back. I don’t think I can take any more fights with the Hateful Virago.
Uh bad news. An upcoming update would see the return of warren creatures as well as the vampiric nobles and a new beastman clan
Nice MK reference you included there, kind sir. :)))))
I've heard that so many times from Raiden, my subconscious just put that in there lol
Man you make great DD content you earned a sub buddy
Another great video. Really glad you are back Misk!
Another amazing video as always.
I really like the theory people come up for the two games. Your threoy is both my favorite and well something i went with. My theory is that the people are echos of what we have met they and are people that we know and came across so to help us tred the trials of the dungeon. A difficult job is easier with people that you both know and like.
“ acknowledge their crimes and make an effort to do better”
Bounty hunter: ……. SNORT
Antiquarian is having none of it
Not everyone seeks redemption.
Mr Writter! these are very good!
The delivery too ofc, otherwise it doesn't sell the weight of the words. but its good extra world building
Hi Misk! What a fantastic video. It dovetails nicely with something I've been thinking about lately, which is my overall view of how the two stories are connected at the highest level. Spoilers ahead everybody.
I divide the timeline of DD1/2 into three time references: the past, the time loop, and the future. The time loop is effectively replacing the present, since during the course of the two games, the linear progression of time is clearly not quite there yet.
Let's start with the past. It's clear that the Ancestor, the Mentor, and the Protege are basically contemporaneous. They were involved in somewhat similar, but not entirely overlapping inquiries. The Ancestor as we know was dabbling with a variety of things: necromancy, blood magic, the comet ritual, and more. Since he is a nobleman, not an academic, even though he's certainly erudite, his efforts seem less focused and more eclectic in the early years: he looks into whatever strikes his fancy. It's only the dig that will truly become a consuming obsession.
Because of their academic backgrounds, the Mentor and the Protege make a much more cohesive discovery about the worship of the Iron Crown. It's clear that the Ancestor also thought something was up with the IC, but I don't think he ever fully understood what it was about.
So in the past, we're dealing with two discoveries. And if I had to summarise them, I would say that the Ancestor has discovered an unborn god, gestating inside our planet like an egg, while the Mentor and Protege have discovered a fully mature god: the Iron Crown.
After all, if the Heart is destined to burst forth from the shell and give birth to a new god, this perhaps suggests that there is an "eldritch life cycle" to gods, in which case, where are the adult gods, what do they look like, what are they up to? I think the Iron Crown is one such. It's an eldritch cosmic entity that's been around for a long time, while the Heart is still gestating.
Neither discovery is a singular eureka moment: they mature over time. The Ancestor keeps discovering more about the nature of the world as he digs deeper down. The Protege is put on the path that leads to Iron Crown worship by encountering the Ancestor. In both cases, by the time these characters know exactly what they're dealing with, we get the culminating event that ends the past and establishes the time loop, thus breaking time itself: the Ancestor binds himself to the heart through ritualistic suicide, and the Protege invokes the Iron Crown.
What you have with this set up is the invocation of an old god and a new god respectively, who are invited into the world and given the power to alter it. However, they do so on different levels. The Iron Crown is remaking the entire world, and breaks time on a planetary scale (at least). The Heart, however, seems only able to influence the hamlet and its environs.
There are several possible reasons why that is. It's possible that the Iron Crown is simply a higher level of cosmic being. Or it's due to the fact that the Iron Crown is a "mature" cosmic entity rather than an eldritch fetus. Maybe the Heart can influence the Hamlet because of the pit, the digging; or maybe because of its connection with the Ancestor.
What's certainly beyond doubt however is that the time loops seem unable to over-write each other, if that makes sense. The farmstead is in a separate loop caused by the Sleeper, the hamlet is in a loop caused by the Heart, neither of these loops gets overwritten by the Iron Crown and the Mountain.
(I will have more to speculate about the Mountain when your video on it comes out eventually lol).
The two games both take place in "the present" i.e. the time loop. It's unclear how long has passed since the twin rituals broke time itself.
However, they diverge considerably when it comes to the future. DD1 posits complete failure to break the time loop, but DD2 does allow you to succeed in breaking the loop.
This leads me to further questions, such as - can anyone from the outside solve the Hamlet's time loop and/or prevent the Heart from hatching, or is our fate still sealed? And speculatively, if the Iron Crown was left undisturbed, would it prevent the Heart from hatching, or would it still be powerless to stop the complete end of the world?
I'll close the essay here for now. Thanks for the great content, keep it up and look after yourself!
I appreciate the essay, I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking of these kinds of things. As for your questions. In my opinion, the Estate was Doomed the moment the Ancestor reached the Darkest Dungeon. The moment he opened that door and let the Heart's corruption loose, the Estate was lost. The people there, specifically the parts trapped there are forever condemned to repeat the cycle to stop the Heart from awaking. Holding the line in the face of oblivion, stalemate is victory. Hypothetically, could something else stop the Heart, maybe... but the cost of such a thing could mean the destruction of the planet like we saw in the ending. There is the theory that the Sleeper was the summoned by the Ancestor for that specific reason. Not to Kill the Heart but to put it back to sleep. Problem again is that we'd be forced to deal with the Sleeper, and we're right back to another siege on an Outer God.
As for The Iron Crown and DD2, you'll have to wait for my videos :)
Delicious lore!
1:27 I'm just glad that my theory about the Estate being on the American East Coast is being verified.
I love these lore videos thank you for your work! Wouldnt you consider doing one for each character? Maybe you can use the narrator lines for each one together with their own lore missions
My pigboi got a glow up?
I am so proud of him!!
can't wait for him to talk about the antiquarian
They think before they ham.
What’s a “Moon’s turn”?
About one month of time. It's a Song of Ice and Fire reference.
As Miskatonic said. It was also common to refer to months as "moons" in medieval times. Or at least that is what media is often depicting.
Very quality video. I wonder how does one leave the time loop in the Hamlet? Do other heroes who appear in the original game and not appear in the sequel are still there?
Would you do Black Reliquary Lore? Would be nice to watch