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Off The Rails: British Rail Condor
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ม.ค. 2023
- Off the Rails: A series diving into the history of lost & forgotten parts of British Rail.
In our second video, we explore the short lived Condor Freight service, The infamous Co-Bo that was tasked to haul it, and the services' influence on the containerisation of British Railways
NOTE: Whilst I make every attempt to locate the source of the videos and photographs used in my videos, many are taken from other websites or TH-cam videos were sources are not cited. If you are aware of the source of the 'unknown' photos or videos then please do not hesitate to comment below.
Thanks for watching!
The ConDor service ALWAYS ran with the Bo end leading.
Pairs of Co-Bo's were coupled Co end to Co end and single locomotives would be turned at destination.
This was due to the Co end being very noisy and giving a poorer ride for the long distance involved.
I feel sorry for Beeching. Few people understand the many positive influences he tried to persuade the government to implement on the railways. He strongly recommended large scale investment in trunk routes, which was ignored because that did not suit the government's narrative ("railways are a thing of the past"), as well as the introduction of containerised services which were a huge step forwards.
But sadly all he is remembered for is an excessively swingeing set of cuts to branch lines, in which he was effectively made the fall guy of the crooked transport minister Ernest Marples who wanted the railways closed so his family firm of motorway builders could get the contracts for building all the new roads that would then be needed. Even for the branch line exercise, Beeching was set up by Marples with a brief and a set of assessment parameters that made the outcome inevitable. Marples even went so far as to make sure that huge sums of public money were spent unnecessarily destroying the newly abandoned railway infrastructure (stations and bridges), just to make sure the rails could never be put back.
Marples made his fortune, fled to Monaco after he swindled the taxpayer (for which he was later prosecuted) and set us up with the huge inadequacies we now have in our railway system. And Beeching still gets all the blame, quite unfairly. Corruption and self-interest in government as always the greatest enemy of society, just one man Marples is solely to blame for this sorry state. Sickening.
Marion
Good comment on Marples who would have been completely at home with this current Tory government.
@@tonymaries1652 I don't buy into this being a "Tory thing". They're all the bloody same on both sides! Probably it's happened more times with the Tories simply because they've spent longer in power. But Labour are just as bad!
And Beeching himself didn't close down a single railway line, the respective Conservative and Labour Transport Ministers did!
@@DepakoteMeister You're right of course, it was the government who made the decisions to implement the closures and destroy the infrastructure with indecent haste. Of course they claimed they were "only doing what Beeching recommended" having set him up with a dirty job to do with an almost inevitable conclusion! But my point is, Beeching's plans were not JUST about closing branch lines. The government ignored Beeching's recommendation for investment in major trunk routes which would have been in opposition to Marples' self-interested investment in motorways. And yes you're also right, it wasn't just a Tory thing, Labour were significantly to blame - Barbara Castle should and could have done a great deal more to halt the destruction.
BUT: please let's give Beeching a positive mark for his successful drive towards containerisation, which saved what could be made economical of the rail freight sector, and does keep a lot of lorries off the roads to this day.
Beeching isn't exactly my hero. He should have fought more in favour of implementing operating economies on branch lines to maintain their feeder function to the national network, even though this option was placed strictly outside his brief. But he wasn't the arch villain he's usually painted as, the truth is much more nuanced.
Marion
Wasn't Marples involved with a company that helped build the first motorways?
Excellent Production. I remember this at the time. This is a very well presented account. Comprehensible Narration and no inappropriate 'soundtrack. Top Work all round.
Completely agree!
I have never become bored seeing a Class 08 shunter :) It must be one of the most successful designs of all time
It is actually a class 13 pushing up the hump at Tinsley.
@@Titan604 Two class 08s in tandem. Only 3 ever existed.
But nothing like an exhilarating 'high-speed' 27mph ride on one of the Southern Region's higher-geared Class 09s... (cough) 🙂
You're right there. One of the most successful and yet least recognised of positive outcomes from the UK's dieselisation period. Why was it so successful? At least in past because it had nothing to do with British Railways! The development work was done by the LMS on the original diesel shunter design of the the type, that was later known as the TOPS class 11. British Railways made a massive cock-up of the rest of the "modernisation plan" in terms of the ordering of huge numbers of under-developed designs, the Class 40 and Class 20 were about the only successes of the BR early period. But the Class 11 was given to them on a plate and with a bit more minor development became the 08.
I would liken it to the Austerity saddle tank engine, another hugely successful design that is sadly very under-rated. In common with the 08 it did the un-noticed jobs of shunting and short trip working of which there was a lot in those days. People were still ordering Austerities from Hunslet TEN YEARS after they had introduced a very good range of diesels, such was their popularity. In the same way, 08's, 09's and 11's are still regularly flying back and forth between preserved lines and commercial operators now.
In both cases, the fact that there are so many still in operation is a testament to the fact that these two designs were perfectly suited to the function they were designed for, were rugged, easy to repair, simple to care for and operate, and overall, gave great value for money which ultimately is what a business needs.
As an engineer, I see beauty in the form and function of a design and how it fulfils a need. To me the Austerity tanks and the 08's are possibly the two best loco designs ever produced in Britain.
Marion
In 1923 you could drop a parcel into a newsagent's shop in Inverness and it could be ANYWHERE in the UK within 24 hours. Something impossible these days.......so much for progress. At least Condor worked most of the time.
?UPS or DHL can do that as well though?
I can order something now from Amazon(16:45) and it says I can have it delivered tomorrow.
You can drop a parcel in to Hermes and within hours it could be anywhere in the country , thats what they told me about my lost parcel " we don't know where it is it could be anywhere in the country lol
I'll just send a fax, only takes seconds 😁👍🏻💪🏻
Yeah well try put that in the comments in 1923
That is so cool to see the old gasometers in the background at 8:20. They were a great design and worked quite well from what I have heard about them.
Great Scammell footage. Thank you for sharing
You taught me a lot about the Condor. And it is unfortunate that the Class 28s were so unsuccessful.
They and the Deltics were the only two-stroke diesels on BR :)
@@RoamingAdhocrat Well, BR did operate the 645-engined 59s, although they did not own them. If the LNER had gotten their way, they would have gotten something with 567 engines, too.
@Roaming Adhocrat add to that the class 23. Although post BR, class 66 and 67 are 2 stroke as well
Anybody acquainted with Crossley diesels could have seen that coming. Despite their reputation for massive marine and power-station diesels, all their smaller stuff, such as their range of bus engines, was a disaster, with a reputation for weak bottom-ends, poor starting and generally a short life expectancy.
@@gs425 And the Class 57 / 69 (Class 47 / 56 re-engined with EMD 2 strokes).
Really enjoyable and educational video. The only thing I found a little annoying was having the narrative on just one channel, rather than across both.
An enjoyable 10 minutes watching. I never witnessed the "Condor" in action
but it evoked exciting memories for future freight services. It was a shame the
class 28s were not succesful as I found them to be an attractive designed diesel loco.
It's nice to see more freight returning to the main lines, usually hauled by the type 66. The large lorries now dominating the motorways are the cause of most accidents and fatalities!!
your evidence about lorries?
Great to see a class 28 on video.
love this. im too young to remember the short wagons.Born 1966.
missed everything by five years. totally stinks. the films are priceless.
What a great little documentary. Well worth a subscription.
Excellent video, great narrative and no electronic din. Thank you
I have my Hornby Dublo class 28 Cobo in its original box along with its wagons.
Very nice. 🙂
Replaced mine with a Heljan D5714 which is possibly the only member of the class to venture onto the Southern in April 1960 (Norwood Junction & Three Bridges)..
One minor correction. "Conflats" were the wagons. The van-shaped type A and type B boxes that went on them were just called containers. Conflats were the lightest wagons in regular use on the railway in my time, with a tare weight under seven tons. As I think you mentioned, "Conflat" is short for Container Flat.
I was a railwayman in the 1970s. In 1971 I was a clerk working in ATI (Advanced Traffic Information) and Traffic Monitoring, the forerunners of TOPS. For the rest of the decade after that I was a Goods Guard working freight trains, based at first at Cadder (between Bishopbriggs and Lenzie) and later at Glasgow Sighthill.
I'm a bit surprised you say that Gushetfaulds was the Glasgow terminus of the Condor service, as I always thought it was Glasgow College, but you're probably right. The reason I thought it had been College is that in the early 70s there was a fading advert for the Condor service outside the by then closed College Goods station, so I assumed the Condor service had started and finished there. Against that, College goods faces the wrong way to go to Carlisle. It stretched my memory of railway geography to think of a way to get onto the Caley main line south, but then I remembered a way (and I think it still exists). Head out of College, heading towards Airdrie. But at Coatbridge Sunnyside take the right hand fork through Whifflet to Mossend, and on to Carlisle. Only possible problem is that that route through is Route Availability 5, but I doubt if that would be a problem for the Condor or the Type 2 diesels that worked it. (I remember an argument with the Control when Eastfield sent a Class 47 diesel - Route Availability 6 - to work a train that had to go that way. I think in the end the Controller agreed to accept responsibility if the bridge collapsed under the weight of the loco. It didn't!) But anyway it's a long way round, and it would make much more sense to start and finish at Gushetfaulds, which is on the Caley main line.
By my time Gushetfaulds was the Glasgow Freightliner Terminal, and Freightliners were of course the successors to the Condor, so it would make sense for the Freightliners to inherit the old Condor terminal. I knew Gushetfaulds well, because one of our regular turns when I was at Sighthill was the 4S52 Willesden to Gushetfaulds Freightliner, which we worked north from Carlisle to Gushetfaulds. Still I wonder if there was any connection between College and the Condor. Maybe College was used briefly in the early days, until Gushetfaulds was ready. I'll try to see if I can find out any more about it.
Anyway, a very interesting video. Thanks!!
I ended my career in Norwood's TOPs office through a prank that went terribly terribly wrong. My oppo in Eastleigh Movements we were always sending impossible requests to each other on the computer so one day I decided to put in for certification, urgent brake and traction motor work BR's class 99's (Sealink ferries) but someone picked up on the urgent bit so they started clearing bays at Eastleigh to receive these units, loco's were assigned to go fetch and well the first I knew about it sipping my cup of tea was the beswick AM at Eastleigh gave me what for on the fone and ordered me to appear in front of him pdq which I did and it was only my build and size prob being a boxer sort that prob stopped him jumping over the desk and giving me a good hiding... man he was purple and the bloody union man just let it happen stupid prat. This AM not content on just ripping into me, decided to give hell to me dad at London Bridge power box as I was travelling down on the cushions, well me father was made of better stuff than I, he gave as good as he got and whilst this was going on the in box NUR man was making fone calls to Euston House who trying to avert a walkout of the power box took the side of me father so now this rampaging AM is suddenly being stamped on by the board. Needless to say I was given the tin tack, only thing they did was they let me keep my all SR travel permit, who would have thought all that came from a simple prank that no one realised was a joke? I had been shunted from Waterloo's lamp arch by another angry AM, this one went red all the time when dealing with us scallywags down in the arch, one punishment was I had to for one week sweep the whole of the concourse with a normal yard broom as punishment, that was over sending YTS trainees up to the buffers on the platforms with a tape measure and if the train wasn't "in spec" of such and such inches, they had to issue a "ticket" to the driver... great fun til it went bad of course.
The Freightliner containers were more modern, but they weren't ISO 668 shipping containers as became widespread in the 70s and still used today. Beeching's ideas of cost-cutting by promoting trainload and containerised freight… I like to think how things would be if the railways had adopted more effective accounting practices earlier on, and if Beeching had been appointed by someone less malevolent as Marples - he might've had much better informed and constructive ideas for the railway system.
Interesting video….excellent documentation and graphics, nicely presented.
I never hear about the RoadRailer experiment. A complete train of these was formed (I made a plastic model at the time complete with AEC Mandator tractor unit). I believe it was an American idea though the roadrailer concept of interchangeable road/rail wheels went back to the 1930s.
A few services still operate in USA. YT has a few videos of them.
Much more sensible than these crazy sized heavy lorries - totally unsuitable for roads which simply cannot cope with them.
Amazing Story glad to hear someone has recored it for prosperity. I guess you have already covered to faults with the Freight-liner stuff and container service in general up to modern time.
My Grandparents house bordered the yard at Hendon where the Condor departed from.
Happy times.
Excellent, concise video.
These are some really good videos, I hope your channel does really well!
Ah, that Black Five Super Rescue!
And then Ernest Marples, the Minister of Transport with a road building company, came along.
And then the Labour MInister of Transport came along and closed even more lines.
Quality TH-cam! Very nice video.
Hi, brilliant video, i've just bought the rapido 28 with 3 conflat wagons, i wish rapido would do the birds eye ones!
Interesting, thank you. This is a great channel.
Why is sound in left speaker only?
So it wasn't just my PC then . . .
It feels very strange with headphones
Very enjoyable presentation, always had a soft spot for this service having having been an owner of a Hornby Dublo Co-Bo back in the day. Now as a 7mm modeller have built a number of Conflat types. Perhaps one day will build a 7mm Co-Bo to go with them.
With a window that falls out of the frame!
Have to remember, the railways became in lockstep with the road haulage operations pretty much and they created a virtually unbreakable monopoly which expanded into storage, picking and packing, transit between station and destination in short a company could produce a raw product and BRS would pick it up, package it, sort it, box it then store it for future custom or move it via truck and train and usually a next day delivery window in much of Britain and even special delivery 2 day windows to much of Europe. Of course this arrangement had to go, none of the slimebags could make a decent profit on stuff running at cost and so they set about dismantling BRS and dismantling a great deal of British Rail. It is no mistake that London's incredible congestion grew just about the same time as when Thatcher etc oversaw the closure of London's goods stations, for the vile Tory it was win win, steal the prime building land these places were built on and carry on destroying the unionised and very anti-Tory railways ability to move freight a trend which Bliar carried on closing down all the freightliner network and refusing to reverse the tories butchering of the network.
They used them in Australia too due to theft when loading and unloading due to two gauges of track being used they said the pilferage went to nothing and then we’re put on flat bed trailers for delivery into the bush .
I remember this from when I was a train spotting anorak .... good presentation. Subb'd.
excellent , learned a lot. cheers
Great video, Jack.
The picture at 4.25 is a train of Bird's Eye refrigerated containers on South Quay tramway at Yarmouth. The train will have been hauled through the streets (Hall Quay and North Quay) by a Drewry diesel shunter to Yarmouth Vauxhall via the rail/road bridge over the River Bure. Sadly the tramway is no more.
Fascinating, thanks 👍
Very interresting.
The prototype class 29, D6123, was used for a while on the Glasgow-Birmingham service!
I agree that this film is about a larger size of containerization its predecessor was the barrel in all its standard sizes. Fish, nails, flour, ale, whisky. etc.. anything could go in a barrel, size being determined by weight to be handled. . It was also inter-model, ship, barge,. dray or cart, rail, truck, or roll one down the street. There are three types of barrel, keeps fluids in, keep fluid out, and open ended to process food or mix components together. (it is a trade name)
To make a liquid-tight barrel you have to use the right wood. Baltic oak was the preferred material but you need straight grained wood and oaks don't grow like that. In the Baltics they planted oak trees with a ring of fast-growing pine or fir trees around them, forcing the oak to grow straight and tall. The barrel was a massive improvement over pottery containers and facilitated much of the industrial revolution but all of this hinged on the people up north planning for the third or fourth unborn generation. This further reinforced my own perceptions having spent some time in Scandinavia, it really is the place where the grown-ups live.
@@mikesmith2905 My ancestors are from the Danelaw lands and one product which required a water proof container was burned or quick lime. The type of container which would keep water out when sealed.
Very interesting. You/ve shown that it was at least a modest success. How about a vid on the 'Railroader', which I believe was a total failure to the extent of never entering revenue service?!
Urban myth that the windscreens fell out of their frames. However, they were prone to cracking.
THANK YOU FOR VIDEO
The TOPS system was bought in from the Southern Pacific Railroad of USA, who operated it successfully.
An outdated mindset prevented BR from learning much about diesels and their operation back in the early days, a very costly error in retrospect.
Good video. Take care for the sound that works only on the left channel.
All recorded in mono.
@@ericlackford6718 You can have two channels of mono!
@@DepakoteMeister . Yes, but still mono.
@@ericlackford6718 Of course.
hi, the clowns that built the co-bo locos should have load bank tested the power units before delivery to BR. and done test runs with a load on the track,there was also too much clowning around with the cl 15 and 16
Unfortunately the ISO type of container was launched in the early 50s. A bad mistake, BR's 'containers' were born obsolete.
"Aye Aye, Captain Birdseye!" - Jeff Heaney
I Love your Videos . Wish you do class 33,25,24,26,27
Not sure what is up, but after 5 seconds I don't hear any audio. CC shows that something is being said, but I'm not able to hear anything.
Rose tinted spectacles my Dad always went on about how our new milk bottles being delivered by rail half would be broken when they started to be delivered by lorry’s my Father & Grandfather were amazed just one or two were cracked.
Great video...however, you pronounce the name Cuneo wrong. It's an Italian name, and should sound like "Queue-neo".
Fun Fact: apart from the famous railway artist, the name gets mentioned by Michael Corleone in the first Godfather film as one of the
rival mob bosses he wiped out! :)
Would you believe that that was an in-joke between Mario Puzo and Francis Coppola? Coppola owns the fifth ever print of Cuneo's Evening Star, and the sixth ever prints of the Waterloo "War and Peace" panorama's, and Puzo was a train buff of massive proportions!
There's a small town of that name in northern Italy.
Your audio isn't centered. I recommend either changing your mic settings, or simply changing the audio track to mono in your editing software.
Yeah. Look where we are today.
Excellent video!
@2.15 & 4.00 the door to door logo can be seen. I am struggling to ascertain the exact date of its introduction (no guesses please).
The term 'door to door' predates the introduction of this logo.
Did this inspire a movie in the early ‘70s “Three Days of The Condor” with Robert Redford?
Not really . . . . but it's a good movie.
The Conflat was the wagon not the container.
0:31 you say misnamed the big four, you called it the “large four”
Brilliant painting! But, alas, I'd forgotten where to look for the mouse!
@Lee Francis Thanks!!
I've just looked at the 1972 Tri-Ang Hornby catalogue (Edition 18) which has this painting as the front cover, as most Hornby Catalogues in the early to mid 70's had a Cuneo painting on the cover. It mentions the mouse inside and asks the reader to find it. Later on it has the answer and says it is jumping out of the way of the Condor although I can't actually see it as the quality has deteriorated over the years, plus it was a second hand purchase.
Jack, you should note that pre-decimal we used (£ s d) pounds shillings and pence why (d) for pennies I don't know, we didn't ask
d for "denarius", which was a low-value Roman coin. Now ask me why we used a Latin term for an English coin....
The same reason we used imperial weights and measures - it dates back to the Roman Empire.
They made the mistake to design it with a traditional wagon roof, so not stackable. This smells like a NIH, as the stackable container design was already known.
🚂👍
1:02 ah the British male. Working hard or hardly working. 😂😂
Yep MADE IN BRITAIN.
The sound is rubbish !!
It's not rubb8sh, it's just not panned correctly. It's better quality than a lot of microphones I've heard, it's just a shame that it's left panned.