Kneel, my servant, and all that you desire shall be yours!* * Some limitations apply. Pacts available only through participating vendors. Horns not included.
Or how about the DeathNote anime? Ryuk was bored so he tossed his spare deathnote into the human world just to see what someone would do once they picked it up. That's it, no real master plan, no chosen one, just a random sucker that might pick it up.
@@loka7783 Pretty much like Dishonored's Outsider too but given to people he finds mildly interesting for some reason, dude's trapped in the void for 8k years and give powers to people just to see what they do with it out of boredom
One of my favorite warlock characters was a guy by the name of Jonathan Whisk, a human street performer was always a bit of a "ladies man" (i.e. horndog). At some point he decided it would be his life's goal to sleep with a Fae and ends up obsessing over it. One day his prayers are answered when he is visited by a beautiful Fae lord. She promises to sleep with him in exchange for his unending servitude and absolute obedience. Naturally, he accepted these conditions and they did it like they do on the Discovery Channel. Unfortunately for Jonathan, the Fae lord cast a spell on him to completely forget about the act. What's worse, having relations with a Fae and unintended side-effects, such as having his body warp and change nearly at random. Eventually he figured out how to control it, and thus the player started using the Changeling race stats from Unearthed Arcana. By then the Fae started taking a liking to Jonathan (in a malicious sort of way) and granted him the Fae pact magic. Now as Jonathan travels, his Fae lord closely watches him, and will occasionally give him commands in the form of the GM passing the player notes. He's done everything from killing hostages to attacking the other party members to randomly casting spells on townsfolk. The worse part is, they will occasionally sneak away to have sex again, and Jon will always lose the memory of it. And as he levels up, Jon becomes more and more infatuated with his patron; he's at the point of writing her poetry in his downtime and insists on sharing it with the rest of the party. Needless to say, the current Jonathan is not the same as the Jonathan that joined our party.
it would be a nice close to the progression to the character for his patron to either slip-up and forget to make him forget that he had sex with her, or to have her do it one last time before she tries to kill him. or (final or) she could do as she has always done before, and this time it didn't work (backfired) for some reason either way he ends up with the memory of the deed at last, and maybe seeing how this changed Jonathan reacts to possibly learning that this was not the first time they had gotten together.
No man, I think that's the fun part, that's why he's obsessing over her. He wants to fuck her, and as far as he knows, he never gets to. But he's constantly being told "well, if you do this one thing, I will sleep with you", so he does it, she sleeps with him, but makes him forget. This makes the sex a carrot on a stick that is constantly being used to slightly push the limits of what he'd do for her further. It's the same sick control we see women often have over men, but turned up to 11, love that.
I remember reading an interesting idea for a warlock: A lich has managed to trap himself in a room, and out of boredom, he tries inventing a divergent persona. That divergent persona turns out to be an actual person that the lich has inadvertently formed a pact with. If and when this warlock meets his patron lich, said lich is going to be surprised that what he thought to be a figment of his imagination is in fact real.
I once DM'ed an "involuntary" warlock, he was a farmboy who wanted to become a wizard, but he didn't have the resources or the knowledge to do it, until he found this book (Great old one pact) that whispered onto him, the book taught him secrets of the "arcane" but turned him insane in the process, it was reaally fun as a character that he became a meme
Kelto28 my monk must have picked up that same book on his quest to read everything written. He has also made an involuntary pack with an old one. He blacked out and murdered everyone in the temple...
Mike Shivak I think that same book wound up with my Kenku scribe, he couldn’t actually read it, but he was hired to copy it (Kenku)... but now he has power but is compelled to create more copies.
I have a similar idea for a warlock that i'm about to play! Forest Gnome who was raised by elves and never knew his parents. He heard stories of his father being a powerful wizard and wanted to follow in his footsteps. One night when he was in a field staring at teh stars, the stars formed to make an otherworldly form appear. He acknowledged the characters ability to speak with small animals and eagerness to learn magic. The form said that he would help extend his ability to speak with creatures and other entities by "awakening his mind". So long as he would use this ability to try to influence a creature once a day, he would continue to teach. However, the Gnome would still insist to people, that despite his new powers and spells he learned, he was indeed a Wizard. Even though deep down he knew that wasn't, he would never admit it to himself or others.
I did something similar once. Half-orc, hunted like a dog for a crime he didn't commit. He cries out to all the gods and devils in the entire multiverse for deliverance, and something answered... His patron doesn't communicate with him often, and when he does, its usually through his familiar, a screech owl. He has powers that scare him, and he has no idea why this being looked favorably upon him. At low levels, he passed himself off as a crossbow ranger, but he eventually became more comfortable with his abilities and sought to understand them and his place in the grand scheme of things
you prolly only see one type of warlock because you assume all warlocks must make pacts with evil entities which is not the case and is never stated anywhere in the rules.
In fact it goes so far as to state the opposite. Unicorns are possible patrons of celestial warlocks, while Great old ones might be unaware the warlock even existence
Yes. Different pacts, ought to be role played differently. A fiend, an archfey or a solar, would all approach pacts very differently. Even with fiends, the pact could be different. It could be “I give you power, and you do my bidding” or the more Faustian “I give you power, do as you like, but upon death your soul is mine forever”.
If someone playing a warlock doesn't fully consider the implications of their pact, that's actually in-character. No one makes a deal with the devil if they've thought hard about it first. It's the GM's duty to totally screw that player over in traditional Faustian style.
i definitely wouldnt say that noone would ever make a deal with a devil if theyve thought about it first. all depends on the circumstances. also, thats not the GMs duty. if the lock player is up for that, sure. but sometimes you just want to play a warlock cause you enjoy the class and have fun. without having to be dragged through the obligatory "getting fucked by your patron" questline in your campaign. also, not all patron have to be malevolent assholes. maybe the patron actually likes the warlock. maybe the warlock enjoys serving their patron.
well they could have made a pact with a being that they think they can overpower. They may have trapped the being in the pact against its will. the being may not be aware of the contract (works especially well with eldritch gods) the being may have forced the pact. Maybe the patron is about to die and needs a warlock to take its place. the possibilities are endless.
Yeah, it's my favorite warlock take. I had a guy who wanted to bring honor and power back to his family name, and wound up selling his soul to a fiend for the powers necessary to do it.
In the book it says that the deal has been done and the price paid, so you could argue the entity had already given you power that you are free to do with what you want and in return you have the entity something it wanted.
My Sorlock is a Celestial Warlock, her pact is a holy mission. She's an Aaismar & her patron is her dad. She totally willing went through it, and they're relationship is famicial/reconnecting relationship. Basically he's an ally.
He might not be referring to literal difference between pacts, but means that all of them should roleplay as a Faustian bargain. If you make a deal with any great power you will be screwed by the end.
@@aaronabunu2725 Except that, in many cases, the "pact" is formed with a being or power source that either does not or can not know that the Warlock even exists.
We had a warlock for a recent one shot. His name was James Pond. He was a merman who made a pact with an undersea witch for powers and legs because he wanted to be where the people are. 😂
TheRogue that’s a GM issue, also I think an opposite situation can occur where the GM uses the Pact to hijack your character under Penalty of losing your class.
TheRogue Very true. Also, sometimes the pact's rather simple and tied into the campaign objective. Your patron might go "i've a vested interest in the world not ending, i will expect you to stop this apocalypse for me".
Talin Wolfclaw was a farmer of cripplingly low intelligence. Throughout his life people mocked and ridiculed him. This fellow was the village idiot, who would get through the day with a faint smile as he was bullied by the towns folk. Now Talin may not be the most clever person around, but he knew his place. He was all to aware of how people looked down at him, laughed at him and thought of him as a lesser person. All Talin wanted was a friend. Someone who would actually treat him with respect. That is when he met this young lady, who appeared sweet and demure. This lady didn't laugh at him or mock him like other people. She actually befriended him and used to hang out with him a lot. She became his shoulder to cry on and over time he began to trust her. She was the first person to ever say anything nice to him. Even his parents would say nasty things to Talim. However Talim being naive and desperate for friendship did not realise that she was using him. She would constantly ask him to perform tasks for her. At first these were small favours around the house, but the favours became more sinister. She would ask him to steal and eventually kill. Talim's very friendship was actually a contract. A verbal contract of sorts, but of course Talim was too daft to realise this. As he performed more wicked deeds he began to manifest eldritch powers. Talim even became more confident in himself and more charismatic. He grew physically stronger, though remained foolish and unintelligent. Talim never realised that he had made a pact with a Warlock entity. He was just blindly doing as he was told. One day the lady told him that it was time he made new friends. She guided him to a bunch of adventurers. These adventurers being the player characters of the D&D campaign... Is this a good backstory for a Warlock? What background best fits this character? What is the best Warlock pact for this character?
I like your thinking. Thanks man. Race and Gender: I tend to avoid human mostly because I find the other races more interesting. However the farmer who is the village idiot, this is a strictly human background. I can't see it working better with any other race. The reason is, this is a character who I want people to identify with. That yearning to belong is very much part of the human experience. I went for male gender because I always loved the trope of the "worthless man" and also I'm a man. Background: I can't find a single one that fits this character. So I'll have to home brew this one. Farmer. The skills would be Profession: Farmer and Knowledge Agriculture. Languages: None and illiterate. Tool proficiency: Farming tools. Warlock Pact: Fey seems best, since they are into trickery. If someone has been fooled into signing a verbal contract without realising, chances are The Fey are involved. Bonds: Is fond of "The Lady", but doesn't realise she is a Warlock entity who is using him. Flaws: Gullible, foolish, low intelligence. Ideals: Will do whatever "The Lady" tells him to do. Alignment: True Neutral Abilities From Strongest To Weakest: Charisma Constitution Strength Dexterity Intelligence Wisdom Any thoughts?
Definitely arch fey. But less sinister, a normal fey would have him get tricked. I would say that Babayaga is the perfect patron from him (maybe he stole a baby from her, or get the hair of a woman who she wanted to curse)
I'd actually say fiend over fey for this. The problem is what the patron is asking for. A fey may ask for you to occasionally steal or kill, but primarily as part of a larger task - i.e. "collect the last breath of the second born son of April". A fiend patron would be more likely to directly ask for their warlock to kill someone. Fey patrons also are less likely to actually demand things and are more likely to hold onto a favor just to screw with their warlock. So unless their patron is a particularly nasty fey, I don't see a fey pact working out. Fiend is more likely. And I'd say Street Urchin fits this backstory well, although I'm not too fond of that background mechanically.
@Bobby Ranger I see archfey patrons as bound by the traditions of hospitality. Like the Great Old Ones, fey are alien, unfathomable - Chaotic Neutral, because mortals can't know or understand their motivations-- and why people warn against dealing with them. Meanwhile, fiends seek the wholesale destruction of either the soul within (devils) or the body without (demons). Their methods may vary, but their goals are always the same.
"Warlocks are cookie cutter and all the same" "Warlocks are non specific" I love your vids, guy, but you're both wrong and self contradictory here. Warlocks are like bards: good at a lot of things, and its the players job to focus them down. Every warlock can be different to the point of seeming like different classes. My warlock is a celestial who puts on Armor of Agythys and rushes to the front lines, taking hits, and giving hits right back. Hes a high damage dealer with survivability and healing potential for both himself and his allies. My friend played a warlock who based his magic around assassinating one target, and you could even play a warlock who is based mostly around eldrich blast with all the invocations that entails. Also each "patron" gives you a chance to be a much different warlock. My celestial warlock wants to be a hero, and with the power of an angel, is achieving his dream, in return for helping people and spreading the "good word". Mine even was at odds with his angelic patron for asking him to fight an unreasonably strong dragon. Theres chances for conflict, or devotion. Maybe your GOO warlock is madly devoted to Cthulu and will do anything for him. Maybe your fiendish warlock is only in it for power and despises the fiend and all he stands for. Maybe the warlock is looking for a way out of the deal, or their end of the bargain is getting to much to bare. They seem cookie-cutter and non-specialized because they are the exact opposite. Clay waiting to be molded into the exact warlock you want.
How people are playing it is cookie cutter like "Oh eldrich blast allows me to do that from that far? Cool!" Or "Hexblade can be a Great Axe or a Great Box? which counts as an arcane focus? Sweet!" They take Warlock because it's options are amazing like how a Bard, Paladin, Fighter are the normal things you take when multiclassing. Yet they rarely go into the lore it's more so like "Poof" outside powers lets go on with the story.
Warlocks can be gish, controllers, scouts, casters, frontliners and so much more. Warlocks have so much versatility because of eldritch invocations, pact spell lists, type of pact, and who they make their pact with. They're one of the most versatile classes imo
To be fair, a big part of why he gets views is because of how unabashedly opinionated he is. I can get how that could be viewed negatively, but even when I disagree with him, I appreciate the honesty. I disagreed with him on the "loner" character type, and apparently so did a bunch of others. He later added that he'd had several viewers explain different perspectives on that type of character and place his opinion under self-edit, granting them a redeemable light whereas originally, he had only negative thoughts on them.
I played a reluctant warlock in a rather long campaign. He was born into a family of demon worshippers and had his soul sold into a pact as is tradition. When he was old enough to understand he escaped his family and went on a quest to free himself from his soul bondage. It was a long epic campaign (multi classed with Eldritch knight) where the temptation of his demonic patron was his older brother constantly chasing him, offering him (and my fellow PC's) power to get me back. It was fantastic to role play and allowed him to develop as a character from what was expected of a demonic warlock towards a warrior for good. Eventually a rare and dangerous spell was found--he could get his soul into a soul stone but protecting it became a new mission. In a moment of desperation a gold dragon offered a deal--a new pact with his celestial master. One that would protect the soul from demons, be a limited contract (service for a decade) in exchange for getting his soul fully integrated and off limits to his family. It was an enormous plot twist my DM came up with and a huge character development moment. He took it, but knows there must be more to this than just service of a magic warrior. His familiar has changed and it's been hinted that he may become a conduit for a celestial deity once thought lost. And yet he's working with his patron, learning and being molded despite his reservations because he's starting to believe in the cause. It's fantastic.
Wow, i'm actually writing a warlock with the same kind of backstory : coming from an high lineage of demon worshiper, her mother was about to sell her soul to a fiend, but when she understood what was about to come, my character tried to fight this idea, strongly annoyed by anyone trying to exerce power over her then managed to escape. That's when Hysram ( an archfey ), the anarchist king of fools appeared to her and proposed a pact, she would sell her soul to him ( that way no fiend get it ) and together they would challenge any structure of power they encounter. That way she can be quit chaotic and use a little bit of infernal magic coupled with the charismatic fairy presence, while still being ok with the party, exept if someone takes to much power. I gave my DM freedom over her backstory since she discovered her familly trahison early she doesn't know everything about it, so my DM can choose if the mother was indeed evil or if it was only the first choosen patron and who it is if he want to create any of those NPC. That way i can learn about her past too during her adventure.
Wait... the different pacts aren't displayed in class abilities? That's just not true. Great Old Ones can force someone into being an ally, can communicate telepathically, and shield their minds. Meanwhile Hexblade gains more and more powerful Hexes. Then there's the Pact Boon which differentiates warlocks even more! Pact of the Blade plays fairly differently from Pact of the Book, for instance, and your character should be fairly different depending on which of those you go after. I definitely disagree with the basic premise of this video, and feel bad for you if you've never seen the myriad ways a Warlock can be played.
I think he probably skimmed it, and then for some reason just has a very very narrow and specific view of what a Warlock should be, which doesn't make much sense since none of the classes are held down that much, including Warlock.
He means that there is no mechanical difference between having your Archfey patron be a Grandmother Hag or being a Duchess of the Summer Court. There is no mechanical difference between having Asmodeus and having Baphomet as your patron. The player has to roleplay those differences. It's up to the DM to make the effects of Asmodeus more subtle and conniving and Baphomet more horror
Loneboar _ funny that you mention that, because I think I heard that Mordenkainnens Tome of Foes will have mechanical options for different specific patrons
*warrior sees a sorcerer doing magic* "Oh that was cool how did you do that" "Oh it's quite easy all you need to do is find out if you have an inner gift for using magic then harness that magic by going to magic School" "Yeah sorry that just seems like to much work I'll just sell my soul instead" *Warrior becomes warlock*
I have to disagree strongly that warlocks are cookie cutter. I am currently playing three separate warlocks who all play very differently both from a story and from a mechanical standpoint. One is a warlock who traded away his ability to create new memories for his powers, so that all he knows of the time since he became a warlock is whatever his demon tells him through his tome. He's constantly talking to his demon to try to suss out what's going on. He's an angry bastard who hates everyone and therefore all of his spells are geared towards dealing damage and mind control types of magic. He hates the circumstances that forced him to make a pact with the demon, and has been searching ever since for a way to break it. This is complicated by the fact that he forgets all of his progress each time he goes to sleep, so he is going to have to start trusting his party members enough to let them know his desire to be rid of the demon while working against the demon's attempts to sabotage this cooperation. (For instance the demon has convinced him that the party cleric, arguably the best starting point for his quest, is merely showing an innocent facade and would kill him at the slightest chance). My second is a Goliath who lost his arm and made a pact with a celestial to stave off death and gain a magical arm in return for "spreading the light". He is a frontline fighter who almost never uses spells, since as a Goliath he doesn't want to rely on the help of his patron. The main exception is that he will use the healing magics granted to him by the celestial to protect his new "tribe" of adventurers. His dynamic with his patron is one of begrudging compliance. He is grateful to have his life back somewhat, but he also chafes at the thought that he needs the celestial, that he can never truly live up to the Goliath ideal of self-sufficiency. And as an honorable man, he is very devoted to keeping his end of the pact. My final warlock has ptsd triggered by bladed weapons, so when he was approached by a celestial to make a pact, in place of a pact weapon he opted to take a pact shield. He does almost no attacking, focusing on defensive magics and tactics to shield himself and his allies. He is the most joyful of the three at the idea of the pact, seeing it as a way to keep the things that happened to him from happening to anyone else. He collaborates with his patron in a true partnership in a way that neither of the others really can given their relationships to their patrons. Different patrons give different spell lists. Different pacts provide different powers. And arcane invocations provide further customization choices. Is it easy to make cookie cutter warlocks? Sure. But I'd argue that I've seen many more cookie cutter rogues than warlocks. Just because it is easy to make them cookie cutter doesn't mean that you can't mold a unique mechanical combination to fit the character's personality and role in the story.
That just means more PLAYERS are cookie cutters. They're probably just powergamers who want to get max damage and write down gold pieces on their sheet.
Exhibit A, ladies and gentlemen...lol. I didn't say it was wrong. Just that it's common, a clear correlation, and quite possibly causation. I find the playstyle limiting and, frankly, somewhat wasteful of all the wonderful things that a TTRPG can provide and I might not want to play with them too often personally, but that doesn't mean I denounce people for choosing it.
Warlocks themselves can be played in a variety of different ways. However, it's up to their players to choose to play them differently. It's a conscious decision that needs to be made but there is plenty of variety in the class itself.
It occurred to me that most classes have some sort of community built into them. Churches, monasteries, colleges, schools, armies, tribes, most classes have some place to go for learning and or companionship. I had the idea for an organization that is part Hogwarts, part cult, part dating service. "Want power, but don't want to work for it? Come on in to Appleton's Warlock Agency! We have a selection of Patrons just waiting to make you a deal! Don't forge a pact on your own! For a reasonable fee, we have experts standing by eager to help find the perfect Patron and pact for you! Great Old One, Arch Fey, Celestial, even sentient weapons! Come on down, the power is just a signature away!" Whole thing would be run by a Fiend, of course.
"So I met a god in dream, and she told me to go kill some undead, and she gave me powers so I can do it... I think I'm a paladin?" He calls his eldritch blasts smites.
I've always wanted to play a character I made, named "Garrick, binder of demons", who is a lawful good warlock who serves some great evil of the abyss, in the false belief that he has successfully bound the demon in the service of good.
I love that! I'm playing a hexblade as a chaotic good paladin who has a strict code of conduct and is compelled dole out punishment to anyone who breaks that code
I'm actually playing a Warlock right now who was given his powers after a failed science experiment. He was attempting to create a portal to teleport from point A to point B and accidentally linked his mind with a mysterious being. Currently I'm spending my free time attempting to decipher the text in the book of shadows the creature gave me. When the thing links with with my character I actually have to make Wisdom and Constitution saves to avoid passing out or getting a severe headache. Essentially, my character made a pact by accident and is trying to figure out what he's actually done to himself. The entity is pretty much observing my character and his actions while my character is trying to have a breakthrough and communicate with the pact maker. It's been a pretty neat concept so far, and since I'm not dealing with something that makes my character inherently evil I can still have fun being a goody two-shoes. My DM has been making me do more Will and Constitution saves lately, which is making me wonder what's about to happen.
Palpatine wasn't Vader's patron, the Force was! In Star Wars, all Jedi and Sith are Warlocks with the same Great Old One Patron, they call it The Force, and it slowly drives them all mad. Now, you may properly understand Star Wars canon. You are welcome.
Yes but the forces has 2 diametrically opposed sides, half wanting order and peace, half wanting chaos and destruction. More akin to having twin deities of opposing alignments.
@@jackbuck6773, not necessarily. Great Old Ones are inscrutable, ancient beings. The Jedi and Sith (as well as other orders of "Force Sensitives") are basically cabals of warlocks who have developed philosophies about what the ultimate goals of the Force are.
@@andrewjahn9718 Usually, the dark and light sides of the forces are chaos&entropy, order and peace. The force itself had a ying and a yang side of it. Jedi being warlocks is a bit of a stretch also as they do not have to sign any pacts or give themselves over too the force as the force is an innate element of the universe covering different aspect. It'd be akin to saying Gravity is your patron because you aren't floating away from the earth.
A nice inspiration for a Warlock could be the moonscent hunters of Bloodbourne. They can relive a night of the hunt thanks to a "pact"and can strengthen themself in a limbo-space called hunters dream. The older hunters have lost this ability and there isn't a clear reason given why. In the end it's pointed toward a infighting between these old Great Ones, where the hunters act unknowingly as agents. Possible ideas to explore are: - getting the "pact"-powers rather unexpected - having an entity so alien, that they can't be cominicated with or only on a rudimentary levle (visions perhaps) - meeting someone who has lost the pact with the exact entity - discovering the purpose of your Pact, either through carrot and stick or a sensation to do certain things like "You feel like you must kill that fluffy bunny!" This could be interesting. Maybe even a break from the mold
An entity so alien it cant be communicated with...I think that can be much more interesting if the alien makes the player subconciously do their bidding. that can be challenging to do as a GM since you need to leave subtle hints that the player wont really pick up on but if they do thats gonna start some memorable storyline.
Much like Bloodborne, one way to run the entity so alien you can't communicate with it is for it to have an intermediary (Gehrman served this role in Bloodborne) who can communicate simple objectives to you.
How about changing intermediaries? That would keep the suprise up. Imagine if suddenly the old inn keaper suddenly speaks with the voice of an alien god, having glowing eyes and a moment later wouldn't even know that it happend. That could lead to the character and the party starts to belive that he looses his mind.
The hunters that lost the ability either fulfilled their contract or refused to fulfill their contract. Gehrman is trapped there and doesn’t have that option unfortunately, and his body probably rotted away if the School of Mensis is anything to go by
One of my favorite ways to differentiate warlocks is to flavor the spells. Same effects generally (although my DM allows me to change damage types to mostly Radiant stuff for Celestial Warlock for example). Like Eldritch Blast, if my Patron is a Wild Huntsman type my blast is instead a The Hunstman Arrow, a force arrow drawn from the air, etc.
I love the warlock character I’m playing in our current campaign. A dispater variant tiefling who grew up ostracized and mistrusted as tieflings often are, he developed a hatred against the judgmental fools of society and developed a warped outlook where he has determined that the only way to gain respect is through power and prestige. He became a mercenary in his early days to earn a living while developing his strength. One day when on a mission to raid the temple of a cult, after brutally slaughtering all the cultists present, he happened upon a ceremonial sword. This weapon was a blade forged by the cultists in the hellfires of Mephistopheles, infused with his lust for power and influence. This weapon recognized the suppressed anger and ambition in the tiefling that had attacked its handlers, and decided to offer him the power he needed in order to accomplish his goals in exchange for his devotion to its master, Mephistopheles. The tiefling agreed to this pact, and entered into a pact as a Hexblade. He plots to rise to high levels of influence in the capital of his country, if not as the lord then at least something like a trusted advisor. He adventures for now, working to earn money and a reputation so that he may rise in the ranks at a later time. What makes this fun, other than the fact that it is my first evil PC (LE to be exact), is that this campaign is a sequel to the campaign our DM made before. In the first one, that took part about 200 years before this story, our adventurers fought against the plots of powerful beings such as Belial, Mask and Bane. Our DM hints that there may be some old foes returning in this new campaign, along with some new ones. I’m just holding my breath for if one of the new foes to the party turns out to be Mephistopheles. Faced with his patron’s master whom he swore service to, how will my warlock react? The possibilities have got me excited.
It's for a warlock also possible to extract power out of an entity (patriot), without the entity knowing this for quite some time. Quote out of Player handbook: "The Great Old One might be unaware of your existence or entirely indifferent to you, but the secrets you have learned allow you to draw your magic from it." Page 109.
That's exactly what I'm using currently. I'm about to start playing a warlock for the first time, and my character managed to draw power from some 'entity'. I like that it leaves a future plot point open for said entity becoming aware of him!
I would point out for a case like this one, that between the GM and Player of said warlock, a systemic device of some kind should be developed or invented exactly for this "secretive power extraction". This serves a few purposes, but primarily, it gives the story/plot a "mcguffin" around which to weave the unknowing patron/warlock storyline and narrative wrappers. AND (for the record) no, I don't think it needs to be a tangible material object, so much as the process itself is an important concept. Answering the "How" of becoming a warlock exactly creates the literary investment within the narrative, so that Player has to care whether the Patron figures out or develops any investment whether for or against his PC at the time... If it is a material thing, say a mystical gemstone that does the "work" of stealing said entity's powers, then you also have the very physical "mcguffin" for teasing around and driving various plots for further exploration. What happens when the gem gets stolen? How much more tension comes about when some unsuspecting gem-thief finds out that this particular stone is so powerful? AND of course, what if the Patron suddenly decides to start sending others (demons, fey, shades, ghosts, a poultry-geist army, etc...) to negotiate the gemstone's safe return for some otherwise unknowable purpose??? Maybe there's a reason that THIS gemstone is special enough to act as a "power-sink" for that specific entity... Personally, I enjoy investing in just about anything that can generate narrative without my overt investments into direct invention. At the same time, use of this kind of power "without consequence" should ONLY last through the lower levels. At some point, particularly when the PC(s) can handle it, someone should start showing up and poking around about the whole situation, if not outright "making trouble" because of it. ;o)
And when the entity becomes aware of its power being stolen it might actually start making pacts with people and start sending other warlocks after the party. And especially at the start of a game this creates an interesting mechanic that the warlock cant draw too much power to further go unnoticed.
Springboarding off that: if you look at the 4th Edition entries for the Warlock (especially the Hexblade from Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms), the book explicitly makes clear that even Infernal Pacts can be made by GOOD characters with demons/devils AGAINST THE PATRON'S WILL. The "implied reality" of the Infernal Pact is that the Warlock is stealing new power from the patron as they level up, earning increasing enmity from the Patron as they do. I take the 4e narrative info into consideration when I think about Warlock stories because I find it illuminating. The Starpact Warlock, for example, birthed many spells related to eldritch entities in the cosmos. Of that rich material, only Hadar made the transition to the next edition. Gibbeth, Nihal, Caiphon, Acamar etc. are left out of the PHB...but all that rich insight into the narrative Warlock remains to be plundered and help differentiate character concepts. Personally, I often reskin Patrons to be different varieties of each other rather than remain beholden to the printed word "Archfey" or "Infernal." Many times, I turn other patrons into GOO. After all, mesmerizing and terrifying onlookers (fey) , casting beings into other planes (Infernal), or channeling the light of the stars (celestial) are all thematically in line with any number of Lovecraftian beings. I tend to strip the narrative from the mechanics, then staple my own theme onto it. Thus, a Hexblade or Undying Pact could be incorporated to make a different style of play, but the former be a Kos Parasite GOO or the latter become a Charles Dexter Ward of sorts. I guess my rant is directed at the notion that Warlocks have to play specifically into the implied role printed on the paper where none of the other classes have this same...innate level of being shoehorned in a narrative direction. The Rogue can be anything from a military agent to street thug to research excavator yet I have seen vitriol from narrowed minds when the idea of multiclassing a Paladin and Warlock is mentioned. The warlock doesn't even have to HAVE a patron. Switch some names around and suddenly each Patron is a different Emotional Spectrum Corps like Green Lantern. Maybe a rules-GOO warlock is themed to be an occult investigator, where each spell/ability and invocation is attributed to one of many diverse trinkets rather than the character itself or what would typically be deemed a Warlock's patron. (Also my favorite ways to create the Magic Item Collector trope without disrupting the rules for magic items: turn Burning Hands into a flamethrower and transform Thought Shield into Magneto's helmet and Eldritch Blast into the "Black Sky Eye" and Otherworldly Leap into Boots of Springheel Jack, etc. )
Anthony Eisses so basically, the warlock commiting identity theft on their patron. *Patron wearing glasses and staring incredulously at a piece of parchment* "What is with these ridiculous charges from the material plane? I haven't touched a virgin in centuries! Evocation? In a belfry?!"
Love your vid man as always, but .... I don't viewed the Warlock pact as the Master/Apprentice relationship, rather I see it as a Broker of Power and the person(s) who have a price to pay. There is mention of being bestowed to a warlock for loyal service under the "Pact Boon" ability, but loyal servitude comes in many forms (coercion, devotion and even manipulation). Such as the case of my warlock Mootarou, I've viewed the pact as one made by his ancestors whose price for power will one day be claimed by some unseen greater creature. Given Warlock patrons are creatures such as Archfey, Fiend, or in Mootarou's case Great Old One, I feel like it's more out of place to suddenly begin instigating communicating with greater planar creatures without any actual power/ability to do so. Should there be any interaction between a Warlock and their patron, it should come from the god-like patron reaching down not the other way around. Stories such as someone selling their soul to a devil for power, a distant relative to performed a forgotten Old God ritual or an unassuming encounter with a feast of strange fey delicacies in the woods are all viable means of acquiring a patron imo. The Master Apprentice relationship kind of implies that the warlock is being shaped or groomed to one day equal or succeed the patron which I just don't see happening based on the selection of patrons. I mean maybe in some games/settings becoming as powerful as patrons is a viable option but I certainly don't feel it's the only or "right way" to play. PS: Love you Guy....don't kill Mootarou.
That's why this channel is here my friend - so we can have these kinds of conversations. Your approach to a Warlock is your own and you make a very eloquent case for it. I don't disagree with what you have said either! For me the opportunity of the master/apprentice, lord/minion for RP is a defining trait of the Warlock class, so avoiding it may limit that, is all I am saying. Besides, Mootarou is special. And know.. I won't kill Mootarou, he isn't the source of the problem... the Ozzie behind him is :p
Touche my friend and I greatly respect all kinds of points of view. Though secretly I'm waiting for the day that it comes for my beloved bovine's bill to come due.
If I do a D&D campaign I definitely want the ability to become a god yourself after a very long grind. The best mythologies in my opinion have gods that were mortals that overcome nigh supernatural challenges enough to prove themselves worthy of that power.
I love how one video I'm watched stated Warlock is the most diverse class in the game. They have so many different ways they can be built that you can have a room full of warlocks and none of them are alike. You are saying they are all basically the same
Just found this video. Love it. I am currently playing a Warlock. I joined the campaign late so had to be written in at level 5. So, my DM let me have fun with my back story. I play a Fey (in the Fey Wild) whom as a youngster made a regrettable pact with an Archfey who sent me to do all his work without any of the glory, teasing that in due time I would become great and powerful. One day, when working one of these tasks, encountered another Archfey and was swapped away in admiration. She gave me a magic ring and severed my tie with my original patron becoming my new patron. When my old patron felt this a great battle ensued, to protect me my new patron forced me through a portal to another realm. Falling into this realm I find myself in a forest of a strange land. There I meet my new party who literally pull me out of a bush I was hiding in. As I am from the Fey wild I skip, charm and become kind of strange pet to the party who never questioning where I came from or my motivation. Every night we rest I sit as the guard (#only need 4 hours for long rest) I stare at my ring, my wondrous gift, wondering when I will get the call. Exploring this strange world till then…. Later on, we are trapped by a White Lich who puts a spell of control over the party (evil campaign phase @Level 10) My Party mates all get a taste of a warlock’s life, being told what to do. Temporarily blinded by power, I happily go about doing this Liches biding, becoming a Dark Princess of Shadow Walking. At Level 15 we encounter another great Elf who gives us the option to break this White Liches control. The party overwhelmed with the powers we have been granted, isn't about to let anyone cut this line. When, for just a moment, my ring glows and I remember the love I felt for my Patron before this Lich (but after the first one...) And I take up the offer. The party almost goes into civil war.... but then remembering that I am super spooky with strange powers decide to follow my lead and we broke our chains of the White Lich. We are still playing this campaign, but I am eager apply the ideas from this video to my charter. Thanks!
My current character is Kralok the Spacially Unstable, a Kobold Warlock who used to be the guy who stamped the deals Major Daemons made with mortals. However, after he, his master and all his master's other followers were sent into a pocket universe by a bunch of religious people who just wanted Kralok's master gone, he was stuck. When some cultists attempted to resummon the being, they accidentally summoned poor Kralok, who has now been blamed for sabotaging the escape of the being he was completely loyal to and absoloutely terrified of. As such, Kralok is slowly receiving his deity's powers, and will eventually get stuck for eternity in the pocket universe, while his master gets back to reality. He's also really paranoid he'll die before then, and screw everything up. He's also completely confused about other races' culture, which led to his throat being slit in the first ten minutes of the campaign.
I made a Warlock that was an alcoholic beacause his "Master" had multiple personalities who were constantly debating about everything...and he could hear it even when he was sleeping....poor poor Plarekk...
The warlock is my favorite class and I love you breakdown of it, I'm also happy to report that my GM and I have had a blast in our new campaign exploring the connection between my warlock and his Great Old One patron. I think you'd be pleased with how we've given weight to the pact and it's influence. Additionally, while I'm here, I want to thank you for your Great GM series; my homebrew setting wouldn't exist without your inspiration.
Warlocks are probably my favorite classes. The first character I played was a warlock who made a blood-pact with a demon in a fit of rage and powerlessness as he saw how inquisitors where rounding up and killing his friends. So after disposing of the inquisitors in a rather bloody fashion he was stuck with the pact he made, only really thinking about it after the fact. It wasn't the master / apprentice relationship you described but rather a debtor owing a loan shark quite a lot. It was fun because at every turn I tried to wiggle out the contract.
I respectfully disagree with the generalized view. If I said: all paper and pen RPGs are the same because they require paper and pens. That statement is far from accurate , even if it is arguably factual. Doesn’t it take two people to play a warlock right? Doesn’t it require the DM and player working together? Since you have never seen a warlock played right. What is it that you have been doing wrong, DMing or playing? Your videos are top shelf and incredibly informative. Thank you
"Entity is giving power to this person, the Warlock." I'm gonna stop you right there. In the fluff for the Great Old One patron, page 109 of the PHB: "The Great Old One might be unaware of your existence or entirely indifferent to you, but the secrets you have learned allow you to draw your magic from it." ^This is a kind of Warlock that has their power, but no contract has been signed, no deal has been made. Just like how no 2 Wizards or Clerics are the same, why should any Warlock be the same as any other? I feel you are trying to force the Warlock's player into a specific kind of character. YOUR 'correct' way of how it should be played. I'd argue that outside of outright not acknowledging that they weren't born with the power like a Sorcerer, learned their power like a Wizard, or been chosen by their deity like a Cleric.. There isn't really a 'wrong' way to play your own character. Trying to force YOUR view of how a class should be played onto anybody else is rather.. closed minded. Perhaps you would like to borrow my copy of the Necronomicon, and Awaken your Mind?
Agreed. It irks me when people try to claim they know what the "correct" way to play anything in an RPG. It's totally up to the players and GM to decide how they want to play.
That's how it should be. And honestly, if their fluff requires you to make a little adjustment in the mechanics (Nothing more intense than a damage/energy type), like a Tiefling that's resistant to Cold instead of Fire, because it fits their personal character fluff better? I'm sure that is negotiable with most DMs.
Downvoted for using the term "fluff". It's not "fluff", it's literally the thing you're playing. If you see D&D as a battle game and the "fluff" is just all the stuff in paragraphs around the character stats in the PHB, then that's how you play the game, and you're not really playing. You are playing wrong. You are having badwrongfun.
+Robert Tommer Unfortunately, the downvote button does literally nothing on TH-cam, other than make the thumbs down light up and make you feel good about yourself.
The pact is literally *the* reason I made my warlock character, a tiefling named Temperance. A being from another reality contacted her in her dreams, that has no concept of her existence. It regards her with condescending curiosity, she regards it with horrorified disgust. Her patron gave her her power just to see what she'll do with it, and will sometimes for her hand to satisfy its curiosity. If she were 'threatened' with losing her power, she would go out of her way to call out that threat to free herself of the entity's influence. I think it's a little odd that you said all warlocks are effectively the same even as you assumed that all warlocks choose to be warlocks.
A intresting point for the Warlock class is that is is the easiest to explain magical addition to a otherwize non magical character. If the pact being made in game makes it a more strongly made narrative then one made in backstory in my opinion. Secondly, one could make a twizt and have the PC being the one who outsmarted the patron into granting power. Either through trickery or just abusing an opurtune moment so the patron had no better option. The concept of non-evil patrons are also a good way to make it less, hostile so to speak. Maybe a genie lord or some such.
Played a Hexblade Warlock that had a sentient weapon as the power giver. It needed to consume a soul every three days, which only happened when I dealt the killing blow with the blade. Usually not so problematic, but our party was trying to travel unnoticed for more than that. So I had to sneak around at night and kill someone. It could also see said souls (even through walls), which was particularly confusing, when there were millions inside a ship; turned out it was insects in barrels.
I recently started a campaign playing a halfling warlock bounty hunter. I'm still new to the game in general, so I'm still trying to flesh out his personality. But the idea was that he made the pact with a great old one to obtain powers that would help him become a feared and great bounty hunter, because otherwise his stature would've probably prevented him from that.
A successful warlock is loyal to their pact and ambition revolves around it. It can feel more like RPing two entities vs a sorcerer can feel like RPing half an entity.
i wouldnt say a successful warlock is loyal to their pact. i think an interesting warlock follows their own agenda and thus comes into conflict with the patron.
I would say nay. An interesting warlock to me is one that can play out the conflict it has with it's patron. A warlock might have made the pact at the time to gain power they might not have otherwise for a specific goal, but not understood all that would be asked. So then the patron commands the warlock to do something the warlock doesn't agree with and so their alignments clash. The patron wants the warlock to say kill an npc that is loyal to the party. The warlock considers the npc a friend and doesn't want to. So what do they do? Kill the npc or risk the wrath of the supreme being on the party? But then if they do kill the npc the warlock risks disenfranchising themselves from the party. Just an example.
I have a warlock in the campaign I DM and he has a quite good relationship with his patron. The patron is a fallen shadowfell god who is using the character to collect certain artifacts that will restore him to godhood. It's a very master/apprentice relationship. He frequently communes with the patron, and the patron consistently pulls him into the shadowfell to teach him new stuff, give him new powers, get updates on the quest, or give advice for next steps. It's so much fun.
I'd play a withered husk, straightjacket wearing, completely taken over squeaky happy to do ANYTHING zealot GOO Warlock. "I'm so sorry you're all worshiping the wrong god, my patron the Great Old One is the ultra-neato bestie of all besties"... "Sure I'll fight that dragon with a spoon if you'd like Dearest Great Old One, of course I'm super duper jeepers ok with that"!
I play a warlock with a Great Old One pact. My take on it is that she has trouble determining what is real and what isn't, she sees things that others can't and knows things that she by rights shouldn't be able to know. The whole point of the Old Ones is, in my opinion, that they are things that "should not be" but are anyway, and I try to incorporate as much of this concept in my character's attitude and actions as I can, as well as subvert the expectations of my fellow players as much as possible.
I play the opposite, a goolock that is actively trying to destroy his patron. The guy might be completely insane, always looking 30 paces to the left, but when he turns you invisible you see "it" too.
I know that a lot of what's expressed in your videos is not necessarily for the video game enthusiasts, but a lot of what you say here and in other videos has helped enrich my game play in the type of games that I play. I don't play RPGs or even the MMO I'm playing for the sake of accomplishments. I want to play and build a character that does the things I want it to do and if it helps others... So be it. So far... So good! Thank you!
The way I deal with Warlocks is that I throw away a lot of what the book says and I just think "ok what dose this Old One/demon/Fay or what ever want and what does it view as a suitable reword or punishment?" So if its a demon and they do the things it likes I give them demon powers or aesthetics. It would amaze you what players would be willing to do or put up with so they can get bat wings with a slow fall ability, or evil eyes with a once a day fear or insanity spell. I have run a character into suicidal odds but they were happy to do it if they get cool things even if they don't do all that much. You could pass notes that have riddles drawings or unfinished statements in the session where the warlock is getting hazy mental images and so they have to figure out clues to do what the patron wants them to do, and if they do it or guess right they could get a new power or effects to their existing powers. The game is about being creative with established rules but also you can throw the rules away if it means people have more fun or the story is made better for it.
My Warlocks patron is himself. In the future, the Warlock has elevated himself to an Archfiend, initially via Wish, then by amassing loads of power. In a frantic and epic battle, a 12th level spell was used to destroy him, but only managed to hurl him back in time. Being in a greatly weakened state, he sought out his previous self and promised/gave power. His only demand is that the PC achieve greatness, and make sure he does not deviate from the path that led him to becoming and Archfiend. It's a time loop that the narrative will eventually address and change.
I just started to play a warlock, and I have been having so much fun with her and the party. She is a warlock who made a pact with a fiend. She was a noble who lived a very sheltered lifestyle with her father, until she was kidnapped by the cult of Malcanthet and set to be sacrificed to the Succubi. During those few brief moment she begged and pleaded for her life, vowing vengeance on the people who sold her out to the cult. Little did she know someone answered her callings. They gave her the power to fend off the cultists and she has been hunting down the people who sold her out to the cult ever since. My warlock doesn't know the true identity of her patron( even though I know it) and always sees her as an attractive woman. She knows they are some sort of fiend but that is about it. I love the fact that my character doesn't know her patron and is pretty much in-debt to them because they gave her the power to save her life. She's a super fun character and I can't wait to see how my GM ties everything together!
"The Great Ones that inhabit the nightmare are sympathetic in spirit, and often answer when called upon" The Nameless and Unspeakable Ones are not evil. They are not evil and also not good. People often say they come from a different dimensions, but much closer it would be that they are from a place where the word "dimension" doesn't applie. Just as the word "place". You are not talking to a creature that is unbelievable far away and speaks a different language. Because language doesn't exist where they are. People say to look at a Great Old One is to go mad, but much more fitting would be that you need to be mad to look at them. Not in the sense that it is a bad idea, but in a sense that sane people look the same way and see nothing but air. Imagen a giant flying mass with more colors than there are stars in the night sky. Your insanity allows you to see a single limb in a single color of this mass. Understanding what cannot be understood. But while powerful beyon all limits, the great old ones have the same problem. They don't understand what we call language. They only see our dimension with a filter, but not that it removes most colors, but other things we cannot image the world without. We are just as alien to them as they are to us. But we can't bend reality like a rope. If they actually make contact, they help if called apone. Like a man saving a ant from a glass of water. But they might do things that end badly, without even knowing. They might help in a way they expect to improve our live, but actually do damage. They are helpful and they would like to learn more, but the language and reality barrier blocks most of it in both ways. If you actually manage to make a pact, they would like to keep you alive, but it's like a pet ant in a forest. They don't seek to do damage, but they might do some trying to do what seems best. Good luck talking to anyone about this. Trying to explain this what cannot be explained, you will look like a madman. How could others even tell the difference? Heck, how can you even tell the difference? The quest is as impossible as it is pure. Befriending a force past good and evil, infinitly more powerful that every god and devil you know combind, past a wall that you can't see or speak through
I loved this so much I took a picture of the whole thing. Is this a quote from some specific thing? Because I’m definitely honing to incorporate this line of thinking an old one warlock if I ever make one.
@@thespieg8813 If I remember correctly, this is from Bloodborne, which was all the hype 4 years ago. Long story short, you are the ant in the forest. And the great old one is the dude going for a walk. He might crush you without knowing you are there. If you actually manage to talk to him he will move mountains (half a hand full of dirt) for you. But even if he thinks you are cool, he will just find you again. And most of your fellow ants never saw a human before, so you are crazy for them.
I'm currently playing an aasimar warlock/paladin where he has a pact with his celestial guide, basically, the celestial guide is the founder of his bloodline and he makes a pact to the first born of every generation in the family to keep the bloodline going. A family duty kind of pact that each first born is honor bound to continue with the celestial guide's mission.
leander_r nice! I like the family theme you have there. I'm playing an aasimar warlock/ fighter, who thought he made a pact with his grandfather, an archon. I like where you're going with the bloodline thing. Very cool.
I once had a character in a campaign I was GMing who was a warlock through a pact made by one of her ancestors. This pact was made with a fiend who was the major villain of the campaign. This led to the character constantly trying to fight the influence of her patron, while needing the power to try to take the fiend down.
It's awesome to see someone call this out. When I played my Warlock Mahado and I had to stop and do certain riddle and puzzle things my pay just started blankly. I explained that my patron's shtick was puzzles and curiosity, as such it was basically a tenant that if I ran across an instance of that I was required to involve myself in it. My GM enjoyed it and even allowed me to attempt invocation to communicateand try to ask questions from time to time. So thank you for putting this out there. I do have to say that your statement of it being a new playable class is inaccurate. I'm not sure about 4th edition, however in D&D 3.5 Warlock was a playable class. It was my bread and butter back in those days. It was then add it is now, at least for me, a utilitarian caster. I treat it usually as the support fighter. I melee but can support the party with the incredibly versatile spelllist at the Warlocks disposal. Hope this was informative. I thoroughly enjoy your channel, please keep up the good work sir.
Call of Cthulhu would be a great place to go next; I would give reasons but the un-namable one has demanded I paint a portrait every month or he'll take my eldritch blast away... And I haven't even started this month's portrait!
I had the opportunity to step away from DMing and play recently. I decided to try out a Warlock. I played two sessions with the character. It was absolutely brilliant! The first session I cast a few damage spells. The second session I casted some cantrips for theatrics and directed the other players in doing my dastardly bidding. It was a wonderful experience for me to understand how Warlocks are played by playing one. We all had a excellent time.
I've been playing my warlock wrong. I really enjoy your insight into the class. I am certainly going to approach things differently. There is so much potential in this class.
The biggest problem is that there are so few great GMs who are willing to allow/help players to create and explore a character with a real backstory. If only there were someone who could create a series of TH-cam videos on how to be a better GM...
A lot of the warlocks we have had in the table had their price for power already paid: Old one: the entity isn't really aware of him but paid his sanity for his power. Fae: 1 as a kid was lost in the fae and a half stole a part of his youth for magic and to get back home. 2 another won a bet with a satyr noble during a party 3 one give some orphans to an expy of the beast of over the garden wall. I'm currently playing a celestial one that got the attention of said celestial by fighting for others until what seemed like her last moments and the celestial enjoys "making heroes" to increase it's own status amongst it's peers.
As much as I love Critical Role (and I REALLY DO), I don't yet feel the intimate connection between him and his patron. To me Jester feels WAY MORE like a Warlock than Fjord.
I do agree that the character of Jester interacts very well, albeit FAR to much thus far, with her deity. That being said, they have done a PHENOMENAL job thus far of bulding up Travis's character's interaction with his deity thus far as well. Just... it's not a casual Sunday style of campaign, where the campaign may last for 15-20 sessions before everyone is to bored to be bothered to show up anymore. Mercer is building this up to take place over the next 4 years and 300+ play sessions.
I agree, and in Matt Mercer/Travis I trust. But what should be different between and Cleric and a Warlock is the relationship to the patreon. Cleric - The deity is distant Warlock - The patron can show up anytime to ask for a task that he wants. An good exemple for that is the brimstone angels series. If you haven't reqd it treat yourself and do it. It is awesome At least, it is my respectful opinion, and I'm not arguing at all :)
I am currently playing a warlock in a campaign a friend of mine is running. His name is Scribe, as he is a Great Old One/Pact of the Tome/Kenku Warlock. He uses the telepathy given to him to get his points across to others, and his tome is like book of vile darkness, a book of infinite pages. His job is to follow those fated for greatness and record the tracks of history, and any forbidden knowledge they may uncover on the way. He got this as a being me and the DM call "The Archives" needed a being to act as his "Scribe" for the library of timeless history, as the previous one in our region died. So his tome fell amount a tribe of Kenku, with the promise that if the one chosen is able to live out his sentence and record enough knowledge, he will bestow upon every Kenku the knowledge on how to break the curse that plagues their people, so they may fly and speak and develop once more. As a "Scribe" he is to observe the actions of the party, and be a tool at their request. Only fight should his life be at risk, and only aid when requested. Every night (thanks to the invocation that states he does not need to eat or sleep) he summons a Abberation from his entity, and is to re-account all that has happened in the days prior. He constantly strives to gain enough knowledge so his time can be up, but there is a catch. His time will never be up. As history keeps being made the library expands and just as a slot on its shelves are filled another is made empty. So he will continue this form of slavery to a false promise and until his unknowing demise at the hands of a catastrophic event. Where he will spend his last moments, hoping the last line he writes will be all that is left.
Carry on George! - best joke on the channel! Warlock is my favourite class and my character plays clearly control role in party because he gained power from hastur(god of madness) so all mind tricks are avaible :) I love the channel and all of the videos-that's the best rpg channel that I know. Well done!
My first character in DnD ever was a Warlock, whose Patron was Dendar, The Night Serpent. Her deal with the character in question almost inevitably leads to the problem that you described, but it also makes sense in the scenario. The deal in question was that I was to wear a cursed pendant that would give me horrible nightmares every night when I went to sleep for Her to feed on. I was to never take this pendant off; to do so would break the Pact. So outside of making sure that I kept wearing the pendant at all times, She really didn’t care about what I did in the mortal realm, and so my Pact was rarely brought up, outside of one or two unique cases.
"Hello, good human. I'm The Crawling Chaos and I will give you some powers if you do something for me." "Powers in exchange for what?" "I'll give you a flute and on your spare time just play it so my boss doesn't wake up and end the world. You, of course, have no way of knowing when the others are playing if there even are others. Just a moment of silence and all ceases to exist." "Neat-o! I'm sure this will let me live a full life as an adventurer and the thought of our insignificant existence, in this vaster than I realised macrocosm, will in no way drive me insane." I hate it that they named Cthulhu as a Great Old One because now I have a hard time separating them from lovecraftian mythos. :
I’ve only played the game a few times, and just sorta assume the GM knows what they’re doing, so don’t get offended if this isn’t at all how this works, but I had a lot of fun playing a Warlock who made a contract with a spirit whose main condition was just that the Warlock had to spread their name and make them famous, to increase their following. So I just ran around as an eccentric do-gooder, screaming “YES! REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE DEMON WHO HELPED YOU!” and basically created a cult of people who thought he was more of a superhero than a monster ^^;;
Warlock being my favorite class, I have devised some strange ways to play it and I have a few favorites (mechanically and roleplay). But I do agree it is very easy to fall into the trappings of a 'generic' warlock, what with eldritch blast and all that.
This is the exact insight that warlock players need to see. I was with a player once that give up on his warlock because he felt he didn't have any say in his character because he felt railroaded by his patron. He showed up to the table with a pre built warlock, never consulted the GM, and then was upset when he couldn't just murder hobo his way across the country side.
I know of one person who plays Tiefling Warlock well but as TheRogue says, the prewritten campaigns don't seem to focus on the pact of a warlock in the stories. It would be up to DMs/GMs to run something with it. In my experience though, the player backstory is still lacking.
I completely agree with this video. Currently I am playing a warlock of the undying and his pact is with Larloch, arguably the first lich. Larloch is currently teaching my warlock how to use his abilities to live for as long as possible. They are very much like the Emperor and Vader
So my Warlock was fairly unique, though I'll grant a lot of that comes from the circumstances of his creation and setting. Here's him in a nutshell: Viktor Markov was a Changeling Archfey Warlock in an evil campaign my wife ran. Viktor was actually the name of a human nobleman who he replaced. The kingdom he belonged to was opposed to magic, and his patron, The Queen of Air & Darkness, wanted to put an end to it. As a result Viktor spent the campaign systematically eliminating noble families within the kingdom as well as tearing down the barriers between the kingdom and the feywild. At the end of the story he helped her merge the realms, and took on the role of emperor of this hybrid land. I'd say Viktor was a pretty effective Warlock, all said :)
Really cool video, and such interesting timing on my part when watched this. I am currently playing a Barbarian whom early on in her adventures was strong-armed into a pact with Fea queen. (My GM basically gave me choose, post the events to enter a multi-class state. They had plans for either me saying yes or no as a player if it was something that interested me.) I rolled with it. What happened was someone my character was very much in love with was about to be killed by a few tons of rock. Time stopped suddenly for a moment and I was approached by the Fea Queen and was told that if I agreed to serve her I would be granted power, and she would save my beloved. The Queen told me choose had to made quick she could only hold time for so long. Feeling there was no other choose my Barbarian agreed. Her beloved was saved, my Barb was marked with a new tattoo to symbolize her new status, and discovered new abilities. She also discovered this strange flower she had been attracted (strangely so) to weeks earlier was actually a little pixie who had been spying for the Queen! This put my Barb on edge, and at first, things were very contentious between her and the Queen. Good thing for my Barb, that the Queen found my lady Barbs mouthiness entertaining (and was no doubt expecting it since she had been spying on me). As time has evolved however my Barb and the Queen have become sort frenmys. My Barb is always on the lookout for a way to one day, not beholden to the Queen but has learned the Queen is a wealth of knowledge and power. A few times when the group is over its head magically my Barb has indeed gone to the Queen for nuggets of magical wisdom. My Barb has also learned what the Fea Queen's tastes are and learned when going to her for help to offer some knowledge or bobble she might like in return. So as not to further her debt to the Queen. Thus far the Queen's requests in the pact have not come at major crossroads with the group, or my Barbs pretty much neutral morality. At any rate, when you got to what you felt you saw people were doing wrong with warlock I was like OH GOOD I am not doing that, because I have been banking into my characters pact, all be it with caution appropriate to the situation and her character's traits in mind. LOL
I find that I disagree about Warlocks not having some kind of specific "role" in the group. Between their patron, pact gifts, and their invocations a Warlock can be customized to do specific jobs. It requires a bit of planning, but you can have a warlock that is a lot like a paladin with a bit more magic in a day but a bit less protection or maybe you want some super crazy damage dealer that machine-guns people with eldritch blasts. It's possible to do all kinds of things, you just have to have focus.
For instance, if a Warlock were to pick a Celestial patron, they gain access to healing that they can do as bonus actions along with some very nice clerical spells. Couple that with a focus on "pact of the blade" and bam you can start smiting people, making multiple attacks, and so on! Or if you want more utility, rock out with a Great Old One patron and get a bunch of mind-controlling effects that you can use to manipulate the battlefield. OR if you wana just do tons of damage, Hexblade Patron or Fiend work wonders for attacking your foes.
I think Warlocks shine in smaller parties, because they can wear a lot of hats. I'm in a party that had 4 people, and just lost a player who was playing Bard. I was getting sick of my wizard, so I decided that it would be a good time to switch to a new character. I decided to go with Warlock because it can be party face, has good range with Eldritch Blast, can use ritual spells to pick up the slack from the missing Wizard, and in a couple levels gets clouds and walls combined with the Repelling Blast invocation to take care of control. Had I gone Celestial instead of Fiend, I could play healer instead of controller. If I wasn't working with a Rogue and a Fighter, I could frontline as a Hexblade. Other classes are specialists, Warlocks have a utility belt they can swap things in and out of.
@DrLipkin >I think Warlocks shine in smaller parties, because they can wear a lot of hats. My party's warlock takes that a bit too literally. He took the Mask of Many Faces invocation and uses it primarily to change his hat. =I
The best way to differentiate warlock types is their relationship with their patron. Are they a loyal servant? Is the patron some inscrutable being who is barely aware of them (a bit of a cop-out)? Are they a begrudging servant who made a business deal? Are they an unwilling servant (sold by parents, accidentally entered the pact, arbitrarily chosen)? Do they have a more personal relationship rather than it simply being a business transaction? and one of the most important things to consider, is this power actually revocable? All of these lead to different character types, and could probably manifest in different choices in abilities depending on how the player/GM wants to handle it.
The correct way you describe to play a warlock is in my opinion the best reason to play one. You get amazing built in role play and story. That's why they are my favorite class if you have the right DM.
I put together a Warlock character, and I started out with the question of what patron class did I want to use? I chose Archfey. Next two questions, Why would the patron want minion, and what was the minion's reason for accepting the pact to become a warlock? So now I have an abandoned half-elf girl warlock with a history of abuse and anger sworn to the service of Mab, the queen of Air and Darkness. When the she makes her patron happy, she is treated like a favored daughter. Of course there is one little thing Mab wants her servant to do, and that is to punish those that had abandoned her. Punish them, but offer them the opportunity to make things right by returning to their stern but understanding mother. My warlock has the duty to 'punish' Drow.
I'm playing a Great Old One Warlock in one campaign, and one of my players in my campaign is a Hexblade Warlock. My character is being "haunted" in a way by his patron. He was left a cursed stone that has caused him to have horrifying dreams and develop a boatload of phobias, and he can't get rid of it. He began as a Divine Soul Sorcerer who was originally going to dip two levels into Warlock, but his patron, Pandorym, stole his divine spark, replacing his Sorcerer levels with Warlock. If my character wants his original magic back or to find out what happened to his father (the previous carrier of the stone), he'll have to work against Pandorym's corrupting influence as best he can. In the campaign I'm running (Curse of Strahd), the Hexblade is a Dhampyr and the bastard child of Strahd. She has unwittingly made a pact with the Dark Powers of Barovia, and these two connections are what initially drew her into the demiplane. She has a corrupted arm that writes the commands or suggestions of the Dark Powers on its own, as they try to tempt her with power. The Dark Powers are setting her and the rest of the party up for a battle with Strahd, but have no personal stake in the party's success... in a way, they're testing Strahd, and ultimately plan to replace him if he fails.
With my crew, I divide warlocks by patron; Fiend, Fae, Draconic, Aberration, etc. Sort of like how clerics get different domains, warlocks and their potential vary by their patron type. They get different rewards and abilities depending on their patron and how well they please them. Ideally, warlocks should definitely have a more intimate relationship with their patron, more like a cleric than a druid. However, that is in my campaign, and while it works for my players, I'd love to know how other people handle it!
well all of what you said is in the players handbook. but i definitely agree with the more intimate relationship. it should be very personal. A god might have thousands of clerics but a Devil might only have this one warlock since there are so much more fiends than gods and so much less warlocks than clerics. And the entity has a reason to get themselves a warlock, wehatever that reason may be.
I go back to look at Tome of Magic from 3.5 for inspirations from the Binder class and the other alternate magic systems introduced by that book when it comes to Warlocks. The names and profiles of the vestiges alone are some great fodder for personifying Patrons.
For stat info, I use the players handbook, but I like to springboard off of that and reward my PCs for being loyal to their god/patron/whatever in roleplay as well. Obviously a good patron will reward wanted behavior and punish unwanted behavior, but that varies by patron type too; Fae are probably far more inclined to reward or punish spontaneously, while something like a Devil will almost definitely make sure the warlock knows why and how they're being rewarded/punished. It gets super interesting if a patron has multiple warlocks (obviously not as many clerics as a god has, but maybe like five warlocks?); then there's a tension between warlocks to compete for power (which might be exactly what the patron wants). All kinds of cool stuff.
Warlocks are the perfect example of "someone wants something badly and is having difficulty getting it." Both the warlock and the patron have their own goals and the way those goals interact with each other can create a fantastic narrative. Mechanically in 5th Edition warlocks can have their patron be an Archfey, Fiend or Great Old One, all of which have very different abilities. And with the addition of the Xanathar's Guide supplement, the patron can also be a celestial, a sentient weapon or an immortal. Warlocks are exceptionally customisable through their pact boon (pact of the chain, blade or tome) and also their invocations. A pact of the tome warlock. They're essentially a mix and match as you can pick your own combination of features as you progress.
I'm creating a Lvl 5 Half-elf Monk (Way of the open hand), who was abandoned by his elf mother at a monastary, picked up by his dad and taken to sea 10 years later, then after losing his dad and his human monk mentor to old age, got a call and made a pact with an Ancient Empyrean (Celestial, CG) giving him a new life purpose. The Celestial has not yet given my warlock explicit instructions as to what he's supposed to do other than "Take this power I bestow you and learn the ways of magic and get more powerful until the time I need you" and my character has done this for 3 warlock levels (Campaign is starting at level 8) and he now has a PotC Celestial Imp following him around. He's a sailor that goes from ship to ship, protecting ship, crew ad cargo from roaming Pirates. I'm glad you mentioned the "looking for signs" and "communing with your Patron" thing, because I had intended on making my monk somewhat pious without being a priest. Have you any additional thoughts? P.S. I made a 5 monk/ 3 Chainlock because I liked a video where the build used the push back of WotOH and repelling blast to constantly push enemies back into a Cloud of Knives for ridiculous per round damage. I also have Hex (CoK and Hex are both concentration) for more open ship to ship combat as it seems more practical there. Sphere of Flame also taken as a spell for setting other ships on fire. XD
I don't know if this is mentioned anywhere else. But what if the player and the patron are at odds. The more the player uses the power they are given the more control the player the patron has over them. Eventually the player must hav a battle of wills (or maybe a imagined battle in their head ) for control of the body. Whoever wins is now the one in control (so the character effectively might die) or maybe the party can then try to help the player trapped inside their own head.
derick moore sorry I'm not exactly an expert on this class. The way he described it reminded me of Kayne from league of legends. It's unfortunate that something like that has to be left to home brew games but I can see how it could really derail a campaign.
KodaPug yeah the problem is most people share his view based on the flavor text of warlocks. The thing is that was never the intent of the class. The first like 5 minutes of this video hit on exactly the opposite way to play them then is intended lol.
And yet if you have a group that aren't roll-players who need strict RAW interpretations it really doesn't matter. It's one thing if your players want a Heroic campaign but the Warlock almost implies some great feat has already been completed when it's interpreted this way. They're still level one but their concept almost implies greater than level 1. Most people are already injecting downsides and vulnerabilities into their characters anyway if they're the roleplaying types.
I have never played with a warlock that WASN'T a Tomelock whose Patron is an Eldritch Diety. Period. I think that Warlocks, however limited they seem, COULD be VERY fun and cool to play with or as... but SO MANY PLAYERS play the SAME Warlock, Over, and Over, and OVER again. Where's my Eladrin Who were taken under the wing (literally) of a Fairy Lord? Warlocks are cookie-cutter. But only because the tabletop subculture has a HUUUUUGe boner for Lovecraftian lore, and upon seeing "the Great Old One" as a patron and realizing they COULD have Cthulhu give them their powers, They automatically go for that, instead of anything else.
It is unfortunate since tome/Elder warlocks work well gameplay wise but their fluff tends to be blandish. I tried to rock blades/elder(It was my first time making a warlock) but the setting up took a while to get used to. At least it lead to lovely situations where the party was pretty much dealing with Bloodborne related nonsense cause I exist and is the only thing anchoring the entity that is doing this without any one realizing, including myself. I still loved one friend's angsty teen fae/tome warlock who made a pact with their all powerful fae queen mommy who only performed the pact just so they are allowed to adventure without worrying their mom but they must visit their mom on occasion or else they have to end their adventure and the pact ends. Kinda makes me glad our group is okay with bull if it works well into the setting, as well as modifying rules to make our characters more effective gameplay wise.
I briefly ran a half-elf warlock with a fey pact who was basically just a gigantic weeaboo for everything related to the Feywild and full elves and eladrin and so forth.
They do that because it's the only class that can. It's not that Cthulu is the only source of power they think of, it's that they play Warlocks because they want to work with the Great Old Ones.
I once played an Old One warlock in a one shot who, rather than having a pact with an Old One, actually WAS an infant Elder God. Outward appearance was a halfling in an obscuring cloak (and mechanically was treated as a halfling) but was actually an eldritch mass of tentacles in vaguely halfling shape. It communicated solely with the Awakened Mind pact feature, speaking telepathically. Rather than earning new spells from a patron, it was awakening its own powers. Bizarrely the DM didn't realise what was going on until some time after the session. I'd like to explore that again some time.
Witches/Warlocks were actually introduced in 2nd ed in the Wizard handbook. I loved the flavor they added that the entity you made your pact with would/could periodically try to wrest control of your body from you. And the higher level aka the more powerful you became feeding off the powers you were granted by your patron the easier it was for them to take over.
what a stupid thing to say "played correctly" ask the player if the class is fun to play. Is the answer yes? That means the class is played "correctly". After all that is why we play a game isn't it? Why not say what you mean? Warlock players rarely commit to following through on the premise of their pact. There is an interesting conversation: Whose fault is that? Are DMs often too scared to push what is possible with that? Are players picking the class for permission to act in an evil way, not for the oblegation? Is the party often annoyed by one single player stealing everyones spotlight for their incredibly elaborate story? Did something inheritly go wrong in the classes concept?
I thought the title was a bit off too, a little too much "Your fun is wrong". But you raise an interesting point, why don't people commit to the premise? I feel like it could boil down to the fact that no other class comes with ramifications for your abilities, and a lot of DMs might shy away from punishing one player for not just picking wizard. Done right the Warlock is a backstory goldmine but maybe it can be a lot of extra work for a DM. Depends on the campaign.
i have experienced similar situations with clerics and paladins before, people that choose their god/oath just for stats and spell without roleplaying it, nothing wrong in the class concept imo
There's always that guy that has to run to everyone's defense "Stop telling people how to have fun!!" It's obvious that's not what he's fucking doing. Picking a Warlock, which is a class with its entire existence based around this premise of "the pact", and then completely ignoring the pact is really missing the point and concept of what a Warlock is supposed to be. Yeah no shit they can play it however they want because it's their game, but to ignore the pact really ignores the class itself. How to remedy this should be up to the DM because obviously you can't literally force players to play a certain way. Perhaps if one is DM-ing for a party with a Warlock in it, and said Warlock is ignoring their pact, that Warlock should be contacted or punished by their patron for ignoring and disrespecting the source of their power and the greater goal for which they were given it. Plenty of players would call that a dick move or bad DM-ing, but if you want to ignore the core of the Warlock class, don't play a goddamn Warlock.
Yep you are absolutely right I am doing just that, literaly spelled it out, just like that exact position was spelled out in the title. Btw I do get that this is just for the clickbait title and the video has a more neuaunced position but I already said that in the original post and you didn't seem to pick up on that there so why not skip that part and have the more interesting discussion. To me the most obvious reason why players ignore their pact is is the fact that the handbook spells out that the overwhealming number of patrons has to be evil. I feel like players that play evil characters don't like the control over their action to be compromised. To me personaly there is a very specific ammount and kind of evil that I am cool with and if you have a party full of pesky rightous people with you you should always take that into account as well or you are putting a lawful good pally before the choice to either break character or break the campaign by declaring they won't keep adventuring with you. Can be a cool plotpoint but only in specific situations and it has a lot of player buy in. Not everyone likes inner party tension. Evidence for this is also Xanathars where they published loads of things that players asked for and warlocks got: A patron that is a good guy, as well as loads of ways to play a warlock that is in a pact they do not fully agree with right now. To me this is indicative that the audience wanted permission to act evil, not an obligation. Have a nice day.
The classes in the Php are stat blocks. That is all they are at their core. The basis behind the stats and abilities are built upon RP fluff. The RP fluff exists as solid recommendations to inspire the players and DM, but I'm pretty sure even the books tell you to use your imagination. A nutsy character could believe they're in a pact with a plushie they have, only to have all their manifesting powers unknowingly actually be from themselves. It's maybe not as initially deep as it could be, but stat block is adhered to, imagination is used, class is played 100% correctly. The core is the stat block. The RP around it is fully intended for the DM and/or player to decide what they want it to mean, and how impactful they want it to even be.
I made a Warlock for fun. His name is Theros Terrifying, this is his backstory. He is a Hexblade Warlock btw. Theros was abandoned as a child as soon as he was born because both of his parents was humans and he was a Tiefling. No one liked Theros because they thought he was a demon, so he left and ran around in the woods and only came back for food and sleep. One day Theros found a way into Shadowfell while wandering the woods, so he explored shadowfell. One day he encountered a strange being, a sentient sword that was able to speak. They managed to get along, the sword taught Theros how to read and write as well as give him the Tiefling name Theros as he human name doesn't quite cut it. He at that point also entered a pact where he will do whatever is asked for him in return for magical power and help, ofc he will not have to do things all the time just when the sword needs him to do things. Years later war was coming, Theros patron wanted him to join to do things for him, so he joined as a mercenary. While in the war Theros gained the reputation for being the terrifying as his use of Thaumaturgy made him very much like a demon during interrogations (if everyone thinks you are a demon no matter what why just not play the part as well?), so Theros picked that as a last name as he didn't have one. So what do you think?
ultra ranger It already is and no. If you go to page 43 in PHB you will see what type of names Tieflings have. They have a Infernal name (Theros) and a "Virtue" name which is Terrifying. Because he lives in a human dominated society he doesn't have a last name so he takes his nickname, his "title" and his "virtue" name as a last name. It actually make quite a lot of sense.
Sorry but to me you are saying that it is bad and you are saying that Tieflings shouldn't have a "virtue" name on a character that is centered around having pride in seeing himself as a Tiefling and not a human. I don't really care what YOUR style is, you can create your own but do not comment on how other people should do stuff better according to YOU when YOU do not care you read for what type of names are appropriate for that race and culture.
Cloud Seeker I wasn't saying " it sucks you suck change it or your a dumbass" I was trying to say "that's interesting, I might have done stuff differently but yours is still cool" I'm sorry I didn't intend to insult you, but if your going to but a characters backstory up for people to see you shouldn't get so angry over people asking questions or bringing up how it would have been if they had come up with it
warlock with a beholder patron would be awesome. RP wise trying to keep the eye stalks hidden meanwhile the beholder keeps using them and looking around with the stalks to observe the world to better find perfection.
One thing they recently talked about with mike mearles i think his name is-was that the pact is instant and that magic is given and cannot be taken away. It makes it possible to play warlocks who oppose or are manipulated by their pacts, or even ones that get sold by their patron to another.
Kneel, my servant, and all that you desire shall be yours!*
* Some limitations apply. Pacts available only through participating vendors. Horns not included.
I have to get my own horns? This is bs.
@@an8strengthkobold360 At least your child will have horns
My horns came with flavor, but DM said I cant do damage with them so they're jut flare
"No one's going to just give power without reason"
Unless they're the friendly Aboleth from one of Puffin Forest's D&D stories.
Or how about the DeathNote anime? Ryuk was bored so he tossed his spare deathnote into the human world just to see what someone would do once they picked it up. That's it, no real master plan, no chosen one, just a random sucker that might pick it up.
@@loka7783
To be fair, "being bored and wanting to see what would happen" is still a reason. Just not much of one.
Puffin's Aboleth will only make a pact with those he perceives as friends. So there is a reason, just not a very good one. Like boredom.
@@loka7783 Pretty much like Dishonored's Outsider too but given to people he finds mildly interesting for some reason, dude's trapped in the void for 8k years and give powers to people just to see what they do with it out of boredom
Those horns - There are some who call me... Tim?
*Mountain explosions intensify*
Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder ?
"Have you brought me little cakes?"
'where could we find this Grail oh Tim....'
legend
One of my favorite warlock characters was a guy by the name of Jonathan Whisk, a human street performer was always a bit of a "ladies man" (i.e. horndog). At some point he decided it would be his life's goal to sleep with a Fae and ends up obsessing over it. One day his prayers are answered when he is visited by a beautiful Fae lord. She promises to sleep with him in exchange for his unending servitude and absolute obedience. Naturally, he accepted these conditions and they did it like they do on the Discovery Channel. Unfortunately for Jonathan, the Fae lord cast a spell on him to completely forget about the act. What's worse, having relations with a Fae and unintended side-effects, such as having his body warp and change nearly at random. Eventually he figured out how to control it, and thus the player started using the Changeling race stats from Unearthed Arcana. By then the Fae started taking a liking to Jonathan (in a malicious sort of way) and granted him the Fae pact magic. Now as Jonathan travels, his Fae lord closely watches him, and will occasionally give him commands in the form of the GM passing the player notes. He's done everything from killing hostages to attacking the other party members to randomly casting spells on townsfolk. The worse part is, they will occasionally sneak away to have sex again, and Jon will always lose the memory of it. And as he levels up, Jon becomes more and more infatuated with his patron; he's at the point of writing her poetry in his downtime and insists on sharing it with the rest of the party. Needless to say, the current Jonathan is not the same as the Jonathan that joined our party.
it would be a nice close to the progression to the character for his patron to either slip-up and forget to make him forget that he had sex with her, or to have her do it one last time before she tries to kill him. or (final or) she could do as she has always done before, and this time it didn't work (backfired) for some reason either way he ends up with the memory of the deed at last, and maybe seeing how this changed Jonathan reacts to possibly learning that this was not the first time they had gotten together.
And at some point, the Fae turns up with a baby and says "Here. Take care of it."
I love it. The only way that could be more delicious is if the rest of the party didn't believe she existed. :D
I LOVE IT, except for the forgetting part ;n;
No man, I think that's the fun part, that's why he's obsessing over her. He wants to fuck her, and as far as he knows, he never gets to. But he's constantly being told "well, if you do this one thing, I will sleep with you", so he does it, she sleeps with him, but makes him forget.
This makes the sex a carrot on a stick that is constantly being used to slightly push the limits of what he'd do for her further.
It's the same sick control we see women often have over men, but turned up to 11, love that.
I remember reading an interesting idea for a warlock: A lich has managed to trap himself in a room, and out of boredom, he tries inventing a divergent persona. That divergent persona turns out to be an actual person that the lich has inadvertently formed a pact with. If and when this warlock meets his patron lich, said lich is going to be surprised that what he thought to be a figment of his imagination is in fact real.
I once DM'ed an "involuntary" warlock, he was a farmboy who wanted to become a wizard, but he didn't have the resources or the knowledge to do it, until he found this book (Great old one pact) that whispered onto him, the book taught him secrets of the "arcane" but turned him insane in the process, it was reaally fun as a character that he became a meme
Kelto28 my monk must have picked up that same book on his quest to read everything written. He has also made an involuntary pack with an old one. He blacked out and murdered everyone in the temple...
Mike Shivak I think that same book wound up with my Kenku scribe, he couldn’t actually read it, but he was hired to copy it (Kenku)... but now he has power but is compelled to create more copies.
I have a similar idea for a warlock that i'm about to play! Forest Gnome who was raised by elves and never knew his parents. He heard stories of his father being a powerful wizard and wanted to follow in his footsteps. One night when he was in a field staring at teh stars, the stars formed to make an otherworldly form appear. He acknowledged the characters ability to speak with small animals and eagerness to learn magic. The form said that he would help extend his ability to speak with creatures and other entities by "awakening his mind". So long as he would use this ability to try to influence a creature once a day, he would continue to teach. However, the Gnome would still insist to people, that despite his new powers and spells he learned, he was indeed a Wizard. Even though deep down he knew that wasn't, he would never admit it to himself or others.
I did something similar once. Half-orc, hunted like a dog for a crime he didn't commit. He cries out to all the gods and devils in the entire multiverse for deliverance, and something answered...
His patron doesn't communicate with him often, and when he does, its usually through his familiar, a screech owl. He has powers that scare him, and he has no idea why this being looked favorably upon him. At low levels, he passed himself off as a crossbow ranger, but he eventually became more comfortable with his abilities and sought to understand them and his place in the grand scheme of things
Ia Ia, Cthulhu F'taghn!
you prolly only see one type of warlock because you assume all warlocks must make pacts with evil entities which is not the case and is never stated anywhere in the rules.
True. But most people ignore pacts, and use warlocks as an unlimited magic caster.
In fact it goes so far as to state the opposite. Unicorns are possible patrons of celestial warlocks, while Great old ones might be unaware the warlock even existence
Yes. Different pacts, ought to be role played differently. A fiend, an archfey or a solar, would all approach pacts very differently. Even with fiends, the pact could be different. It could be “I give you power, and you do my bidding” or the more Faustian “I give you power, do as you like, but upon death your soul is mine forever”.
"I feel warlocks should have horns"
TIEFLING RACISM
Sir Game A Lot #notall
#notall
Sir Game A Lot lol! My Warlock is a Tiefling.
Sir Game A Lot o.o
You meant to say tiefling supremacy?
If someone playing a warlock doesn't fully consider the implications of their pact, that's actually in-character. No one makes a deal with the devil if they've thought hard about it first. It's the GM's duty to totally screw that player over in traditional Faustian style.
i definitely wouldnt say that noone would ever make a deal with a devil if theyve thought about it first. all depends on the circumstances.
also, thats not the GMs duty. if the lock player is up for that, sure. but sometimes you just want to play a warlock cause you enjoy the class and have fun. without having to be dragged through the obligatory "getting fucked by your patron" questline in your campaign.
also, not all patron have to be malevolent assholes. maybe the patron actually likes the warlock. maybe the warlock enjoys serving their patron.
well they could have made a pact with a being that they think they can overpower.
They may have trapped the being in the pact against its will.
the being may not be aware of the contract (works especially well with eldritch gods)
the being may have forced the pact.
Maybe the patron is about to die and needs a warlock to take its place.
the possibilities are endless.
Yeah, it's my favorite warlock take. I had a guy who wanted to bring honor and power back to his family name, and wound up selling his soul to a fiend for the powers necessary to do it.
I took celestial though, made a deal with a sphinx - my character thus would not have even considered the faustian nature. It will still end poorly.
In the book it says that the deal has been done and the price paid, so you could argue the entity had already given you power that you are free to do with what you want and in return you have the entity something it wanted.
My Sorlock is a Celestial Warlock, her pact is a holy mission. She's an Aaismar & her patron is her dad.
She totally willing went through it, and they're relationship is famicial/reconnecting relationship.
Basically he's an ally.
Wait hold on, 11:05 your patron doesn't affect your class abilities? Have you looked at the 5e players handbook?
Irked me too. Fjord and K'thriss have completely different Pacts, and completely different abilities because of it.
I think he has only seen one type played so it doesn’t feel different
He might not be referring to literal difference between pacts, but means that all of them should roleplay as a Faustian bargain. If you make a deal with any great power you will be screwed by the end.
@@aaronabunu2725 Except that, in many cases, the "pact" is formed with a being or power source that either does not or can not know that the Warlock even exists.
We had a warlock for a recent one shot. His name was James Pond. He was a merman who made a pact with an undersea witch for powers and legs because he wanted to be where the people are. 😂
The reason that players don't play Warlocks well is because most games don't have opportunities to explore the pacts.
TheRogue that’s a GM issue, also I think an opposite situation can occur where the GM uses the Pact to hijack your character under Penalty of losing your class.
*hijack
TheRogue Very true. Also, sometimes the pact's rather simple and tied into the campaign objective. Your patron might go "i've a vested interest in the world not ending, i will expect you to stop this apocalypse for me".
TheRogue mine was just praying to the raven queen and doing her bidding... not much else
Agreed on all accounts. It's a bit frustrating to not be able to explore that side of a character.
Do.... Do those horns have USB ports?
Or is it Firewire?
Talin Wolfclaw was a farmer of cripplingly low intelligence. Throughout his life people mocked and ridiculed him. This fellow was the village idiot, who would get through the day with a faint smile as he was bullied by the towns folk.
Now Talin may not be the most clever person around, but he knew his place. He was all to aware of how people looked down at him, laughed at him and thought of him as a lesser person. All Talin wanted was a friend. Someone who would actually treat him with respect. That is when he met this young lady, who appeared sweet and demure.
This lady didn't laugh at him or mock him like other people. She actually befriended him and used to hang out with him a lot. She became his shoulder to cry on and over time he began to trust her. She was the first person to ever say anything nice to him. Even his parents would say nasty things to Talim. However Talim being naive and desperate for friendship did not realise that she was using him.
She would constantly ask him to perform tasks for her. At first these were small favours around the house, but the favours became more sinister. She would ask him to steal and eventually kill. Talim's very friendship was actually a contract. A verbal contract of sorts, but of course Talim was too daft to realise this.
As he performed more wicked deeds he began to manifest eldritch powers. Talim even became more confident in himself and more charismatic. He grew physically stronger, though remained foolish and unintelligent. Talim never realised that he had made a pact with a Warlock entity. He was just blindly doing as he was told. One day the lady told him that it was time he made new friends. She guided him to a bunch of adventurers. These adventurers being the player characters of the D&D campaign...
Is this a good backstory for a Warlock?
What background best fits this character?
What is the best Warlock pact for this character?
id say thats a great background. I'd have it be either fey pact or fiend pact.
I like your thinking. Thanks man.
Race and Gender:
I tend to avoid human mostly because I find the other races more interesting. However the farmer who is the village idiot, this is a strictly human background. I can't see it working better with any other race. The reason is, this is a character who I want people to identify with. That yearning to belong is very much part of the human experience. I went for male gender because I always loved the trope of the "worthless man" and also I'm a man.
Background: I can't find a single one that fits this character. So I'll have to home brew this one.
Farmer. The skills would be Profession: Farmer and Knowledge Agriculture. Languages: None and illiterate. Tool proficiency: Farming tools.
Warlock Pact:
Fey seems best, since they are into trickery. If someone has been fooled into signing a verbal contract without realising, chances are The Fey are involved.
Bonds: Is fond of "The Lady", but doesn't realise she is a Warlock entity who is using him.
Flaws: Gullible, foolish, low intelligence.
Ideals: Will do whatever "The Lady" tells him to do.
Alignment: True Neutral
Abilities From Strongest To Weakest:
Charisma
Constitution
Strength
Dexterity
Intelligence
Wisdom
Any thoughts?
Definitely arch fey. But less sinister, a normal fey would have him get tricked. I would say that Babayaga is the perfect patron from him (maybe he stole a baby from her, or get the hair of a woman who she wanted to curse)
I'd actually say fiend over fey for this. The problem is what the patron is asking for. A fey may ask for you to occasionally steal or kill, but primarily as part of a larger task - i.e. "collect the last breath of the second born son of April". A fiend patron would be more likely to directly ask for their warlock to kill someone. Fey patrons also are less likely to actually demand things and are more likely to hold onto a favor just to screw with their warlock. So unless their patron is a particularly nasty fey, I don't see a fey pact working out. Fiend is more likely.
And I'd say Street Urchin fits this backstory well, although I'm not too fond of that background mechanically.
@Bobby Ranger I see archfey patrons as bound by the traditions of hospitality. Like the Great Old Ones, fey are alien, unfathomable - Chaotic Neutral, because mortals can't know or understand their motivations-- and why people warn against dealing with them.
Meanwhile, fiends seek the wholesale destruction of either the soul within (devils) or the body without (demons). Their methods may vary, but their goals are always the same.
"Warlocks are cookie cutter and all the same"
"Warlocks are non specific"
I love your vids, guy, but you're both wrong and self contradictory here. Warlocks are like bards: good at a lot of things, and its the players job to focus them down. Every warlock can be different to the point of seeming like different classes. My warlock is a celestial who puts on Armor of Agythys and rushes to the front lines, taking hits, and giving hits right back. Hes a high damage dealer with survivability and healing potential for both himself and his allies. My friend played a warlock who based his magic around assassinating one target, and you could even play a warlock who is based mostly around eldrich blast with all the invocations that entails. Also each "patron" gives you a chance to be a much different warlock. My celestial warlock wants to be a hero, and with the power of an angel, is achieving his dream, in return for helping people and spreading the "good word". Mine even was at odds with his angelic patron for asking him to fight an unreasonably strong dragon. Theres chances for conflict, or devotion. Maybe your GOO warlock is madly devoted to Cthulu and will do anything for him. Maybe your fiendish warlock is only in it for power and despises the fiend and all he stands for. Maybe the warlock is looking for a way out of the deal, or their end of the bargain is getting to much to bare.
They seem cookie-cutter and non-specialized because they are the exact opposite. Clay waiting to be molded into the exact warlock you want.
The Sewer King Exactly! Plus the arrogance of someone telling others what is 'correct' just rubs me wrong.
How people are playing it is cookie cutter like "Oh eldrich blast allows me to do that from that far? Cool!" Or "Hexblade can be a Great Axe or a Great Box? which counts as an arcane focus? Sweet!" They take Warlock because it's options are amazing like how a Bard, Paladin, Fighter are the normal things you take when multiclassing. Yet they rarely go into the lore it's more so like "Poof" outside powers lets go on with the story.
Warlocks can be gish, controllers, scouts, casters, frontliners and so much more. Warlocks have so much versatility because of eldritch invocations, pact spell lists, type of pact, and who they make their pact with. They're one of the most versatile classes imo
To be fair, a big part of why he gets views is because of how unabashedly opinionated he is. I can get how that could be viewed negatively, but even when I disagree with him, I appreciate the honesty.
I disagreed with him on the "loner" character type, and apparently so did a bunch of others. He later added that he'd had several viewers explain different perspectives on that type of character and place his opinion under self-edit, granting them a redeemable light whereas originally, he had only negative thoughts on them.
Kaspar Carew very good point
I played a reluctant warlock in a rather long campaign. He was born into a family of demon worshippers and had his soul sold into a pact as is tradition. When he was old enough to understand he escaped his family and went on a quest to free himself from his soul bondage. It was a long epic campaign (multi classed with Eldritch knight) where the temptation of his demonic patron was his older brother constantly chasing him, offering him (and my fellow PC's) power to get me back. It was fantastic to role play and allowed him to develop as a character from what was expected of a demonic warlock towards a warrior for good.
Eventually a rare and dangerous spell was found--he could get his soul into a soul stone but protecting it became a new mission. In a moment of desperation a gold dragon offered a deal--a new pact with his celestial master. One that would protect the soul from demons, be a limited contract (service for a decade) in exchange for getting his soul fully integrated and off limits to his family. It was an enormous plot twist my DM came up with and a huge character development moment. He took it, but knows there must be more to this than just service of a magic warrior. His familiar has changed and it's been hinted that he may become a conduit for a celestial deity once thought lost. And yet he's working with his patron, learning and being molded despite his reservations because he's starting to believe in the cause. It's fantastic.
Wow, i'm actually writing a warlock with the same kind of backstory : coming from an high lineage of demon worshiper, her mother was about to sell her soul to a fiend, but when she understood what was about to come, my character tried to fight this idea, strongly annoyed by anyone trying to exerce power over her then managed to escape. That's when Hysram ( an archfey ), the anarchist king of fools appeared to her and proposed a pact, she would sell her soul to him ( that way no fiend get it ) and together they would challenge any structure of power they encounter. That way she can be quit chaotic and use a little bit of infernal magic coupled with the charismatic fairy presence, while still being ok with the party, exept if someone takes to much power.
I gave my DM freedom over her backstory since she discovered her familly trahison early she doesn't know everything about it, so my DM can choose if the mother was indeed evil or if it was only the first choosen patron and who it is if he want to create any of those NPC. That way i can learn about her past too during her adventure.
Wait... the different pacts aren't displayed in class abilities? That's just not true. Great Old Ones can force someone into being an ally, can communicate telepathically, and shield their minds. Meanwhile Hexblade gains more and more powerful Hexes. Then there's the Pact Boon which differentiates warlocks even more! Pact of the Blade plays fairly differently from Pact of the Book, for instance, and your character should be fairly different depending on which of those you go after. I definitely disagree with the basic premise of this video, and feel bad for you if you've never seen the myriad ways a Warlock can be played.
Exactly this. It sounds like he has never read the players handbook...
I think he probably skimmed it, and then for some reason just has a very very narrow and specific view of what a Warlock should be, which doesn't make much sense since none of the classes are held down that much, including Warlock.
He means that there is no mechanical difference between having your Archfey patron be a Grandmother Hag or being a Duchess of the Summer Court. There is no mechanical difference between having Asmodeus and having Baphomet as your patron. The player has to roleplay those differences. It's up to the DM to make the effects of Asmodeus more subtle and conniving and Baphomet more horror
Morpheous XO given that people come here to learn, if he means something he should say it. Because that is not what was said.
Loneboar _ funny that you mention that, because I think I heard that Mordenkainnens Tome of Foes will have mechanical options for different specific patrons
*warrior sees a sorcerer doing magic*
"Oh that was cool how did you do that"
"Oh it's quite easy all you need to do is find out if you have an inner gift for using magic then harness that magic by going to magic School"
"Yeah sorry that just seems like to much work I'll just sell my soul instead"
*Warrior becomes warlock*
I have to disagree strongly that warlocks are cookie cutter. I am currently playing three separate warlocks who all play very differently both from a story and from a mechanical standpoint.
One is a warlock who traded away his ability to create new memories for his powers, so that all he knows of the time since he became a warlock is whatever his demon tells him through his tome. He's constantly talking to his demon to try to suss out what's going on. He's an angry bastard who hates everyone and therefore all of his spells are geared towards dealing damage and mind control types of magic. He hates the circumstances that forced him to make a pact with the demon, and has been searching ever since for a way to break it. This is complicated by the fact that he forgets all of his progress each time he goes to sleep, so he is going to have to start trusting his party members enough to let them know his desire to be rid of the demon while working against the demon's attempts to sabotage this cooperation. (For instance the demon has convinced him that the party cleric, arguably the best starting point for his quest, is merely showing an innocent facade and would kill him at the slightest chance).
My second is a Goliath who lost his arm and made a pact with a celestial to stave off death and gain a magical arm in return for "spreading the light". He is a frontline fighter who almost never uses spells, since as a Goliath he doesn't want to rely on the help of his patron. The main exception is that he will use the healing magics granted to him by the celestial to protect his new "tribe" of adventurers. His dynamic with his patron is one of begrudging compliance. He is grateful to have his life back somewhat, but he also chafes at the thought that he needs the celestial, that he can never truly live up to the Goliath ideal of self-sufficiency. And as an honorable man, he is very devoted to keeping his end of the pact.
My final warlock has ptsd triggered by bladed weapons, so when he was approached by a celestial to make a pact, in place of a pact weapon he opted to take a pact shield. He does almost no attacking, focusing on defensive magics and tactics to shield himself and his allies. He is the most joyful of the three at the idea of the pact, seeing it as a way to keep the things that happened to him from happening to anyone else. He collaborates with his patron in a true partnership in a way that neither of the others really can given their relationships to their patrons.
Different patrons give different spell lists. Different pacts provide different powers. And arcane invocations provide further customization choices. Is it easy to make cookie cutter warlocks? Sure. But I'd argue that I've seen many more cookie cutter rogues than warlocks. Just because it is easy to make them cookie cutter doesn't mean that you can't mold a unique mechanical combination to fit the character's personality and role in the story.
Tyler Owens most warlocks are cookie cutter, just because yours isn't doesn't break the rule
That just means more PLAYERS are cookie cutters. They're probably just powergamers who want to get max damage and write down gold pieces on their sheet.
therealbahamut and what's wrong with that?
Exhibit A, ladies and gentlemen...lol.
I didn't say it was wrong. Just that it's common, a clear correlation, and quite possibly causation. I find the playstyle limiting and, frankly, somewhat wasteful of all the wonderful things that a TTRPG can provide and I might not want to play with them too often personally, but that doesn't mean I denounce people for choosing it.
Warlocks themselves can be played in a variety of different ways. However, it's up to their players to choose to play them differently. It's a conscious decision that needs to be made but there is plenty of variety in the class itself.
It occurred to me that most classes have some sort of community built into them. Churches, monasteries, colleges, schools, armies, tribes, most classes have some place to go for learning and or companionship. I had the idea for an organization that is part Hogwarts, part cult, part dating service.
"Want power, but don't want to work for it? Come on in to Appleton's Warlock Agency! We have a selection of Patrons just waiting to make you a deal! Don't forge a pact on your own! For a reasonable fee, we have experts standing by eager to help find the perfect Patron and pact for you! Great Old One, Arch Fey, Celestial, even sentient weapons! Come on down, the power is just a signature away!"
Whole thing would be run by a Fiend, of course.
DrLipkin OMT, best comment XD
Recently made a warlock in 5th ed.
He believes he's a paladin of the raven queen.
"So I met a god in dream, and she told me to go kill some undead, and she gave me powers so I can do it... I think I'm a paladin?"
He calls his eldritch blasts smites.
OMG i love that
I've always wanted to play a character I made, named "Garrick, binder of demons", who is a lawful good warlock who serves some great evil of the abyss, in the false belief that he has successfully bound the demon in the service of good.
I love that! I'm playing a hexblade as a chaotic good paladin who has a strict code of conduct and is compelled dole out punishment to anyone who breaks that code
I'm actually playing a Warlock right now who was given his powers after a failed science experiment. He was attempting to create a portal to teleport from point A to point B and accidentally linked his mind with a mysterious being. Currently I'm spending my free time attempting to decipher the text in the book of shadows the creature gave me. When the thing links with with my character I actually have to make Wisdom and Constitution saves to avoid passing out or getting a severe headache.
Essentially, my character made a pact by accident and is trying to figure out what he's actually done to himself. The entity is pretty much observing my character and his actions while my character is trying to have a breakthrough and communicate with the pact maker. It's been a pretty neat concept so far, and since I'm not dealing with something that makes my character inherently evil I can still have fun being a goody two-shoes. My DM has been making me do more Will and Constitution saves lately, which is making me wonder what's about to happen.
Palpatine wasn't Vader's patron, the Force was!
In Star Wars, all Jedi and Sith are Warlocks with the same Great Old One Patron, they call it The Force, and it slowly drives them all mad. Now, you may properly understand Star Wars canon. You are welcome.
Bryan Shouse I mean
You’re not wrong
You’re 100% right
You are amazing
Hold on hold on hold on
So all jedi and sith are multi class monk/warlock?
Yes but the forces has 2 diametrically opposed sides, half wanting order and peace, half wanting chaos and destruction. More akin to having twin deities of opposing alignments.
@@jackbuck6773, not necessarily. Great Old Ones are inscrutable, ancient beings. The Jedi and Sith (as well as other orders of "Force Sensitives") are basically cabals of warlocks who have developed philosophies about what the ultimate goals of the Force are.
@@andrewjahn9718 Usually, the dark and light sides of the forces are chaos&entropy, order and peace. The force itself had a ying and a yang side of it. Jedi being warlocks is a bit of a stretch also as they do not have to sign any pacts or give themselves over too the force as the force is an innate element of the universe covering different aspect. It'd be akin to saying Gravity is your patron because you aren't floating away from the earth.
A nice inspiration for a Warlock could be the moonscent hunters of Bloodbourne. They can relive a night of the hunt thanks to a "pact"and can strengthen themself in a limbo-space called hunters dream. The older hunters have lost this ability and there isn't a clear reason given why. In the end it's pointed toward a infighting between these old Great Ones, where the hunters act unknowingly as agents.
Possible ideas to explore are:
- getting the "pact"-powers rather unexpected
- having an entity so alien, that they can't be cominicated with or only on a rudimentary levle (visions perhaps)
- meeting someone who has lost the pact with the exact entity
- discovering the purpose of your Pact, either through carrot and stick or a sensation to do certain things like "You feel like you must kill that fluffy bunny!"
This could be interesting. Maybe even a break from the mold
An entity so alien it cant be communicated with...I think that can be much more interesting if the alien makes the player subconciously do their bidding. that can be challenging to do as a GM since you need to leave subtle hints that the player wont really pick up on but if they do thats gonna start some memorable storyline.
Grant us eyes. GRANT US EYES!
Much like Bloodborne, one way to run the entity so alien you can't communicate with it is for it to have an intermediary (Gehrman served this role in Bloodborne) who can communicate simple objectives to you.
How about changing intermediaries? That would keep the suprise up. Imagine if suddenly the old inn keaper suddenly speaks with the voice of an alien god, having glowing eyes and a moment later wouldn't even know that it happend. That could lead to the character and the party starts to belive that he looses his mind.
The hunters that lost the ability either fulfilled their contract or refused to fulfill their contract. Gehrman is trapped there and doesn’t have that option unfortunately, and his body probably rotted away if the School of Mensis is anything to go by
One of my favorite ways to differentiate warlocks is to flavor the spells. Same effects generally (although my DM allows me to change damage types to mostly Radiant stuff for Celestial Warlock for example). Like Eldritch Blast, if my Patron is a Wild Huntsman type my blast is instead a The Hunstman Arrow, a force arrow drawn from the air, etc.
I love the warlock character I’m playing in our current campaign. A dispater variant tiefling who grew up ostracized and mistrusted as tieflings often are, he developed a hatred against the judgmental fools of society and developed a warped outlook where he has determined that the only way to gain respect is through power and prestige. He became a mercenary in his early days to earn a living while developing his strength. One day when on a mission to raid the temple of a cult, after brutally slaughtering all the cultists present, he happened upon a ceremonial sword. This weapon was a blade forged by the cultists in the hellfires of Mephistopheles, infused with his lust for power and influence. This weapon recognized the suppressed anger and ambition in the tiefling that had attacked its handlers, and decided to offer him the power he needed in order to accomplish his goals in exchange for his devotion to its master, Mephistopheles. The tiefling agreed to this pact, and entered into a pact as a Hexblade. He plots to rise to high levels of influence in the capital of his country, if not as the lord then at least something like a trusted advisor. He adventures for now, working to earn money and a reputation so that he may rise in the ranks at a later time.
What makes this fun, other than the fact that it is my first evil PC (LE to be exact), is that this campaign is a sequel to the campaign our DM made before. In the first one, that took part about 200 years before this story, our adventurers fought against the plots of powerful beings such as Belial, Mask and Bane. Our DM hints that there may be some old foes returning in this new campaign, along with some new ones. I’m just holding my breath for if one of the new foes to the party turns out to be Mephistopheles. Faced with his patron’s master whom he swore service to, how will my warlock react? The possibilities have got me excited.
It's for a warlock also possible to extract power out of an entity (patriot), without the entity knowing this for quite some time.
Quote out of Player handbook: "The Great Old One might be unaware of your existence or entirely indifferent to you, but the secrets you have learned allow you to draw your magic from it." Page 109.
That's exactly what I'm using currently. I'm about to start playing a warlock for the first time, and my character managed to draw power from some 'entity'. I like that it leaves a future plot point open for said entity becoming aware of him!
I would point out for a case like this one, that between the GM and Player of said warlock, a systemic device of some kind should be developed or invented exactly for this "secretive power extraction".
This serves a few purposes, but primarily, it gives the story/plot a "mcguffin" around which to weave the unknowing patron/warlock storyline and narrative wrappers. AND (for the record) no, I don't think it needs to be a tangible material object, so much as the process itself is an important concept. Answering the "How" of becoming a warlock exactly creates the literary investment within the narrative, so that Player has to care whether the Patron figures out or develops any investment whether for or against his PC at the time...
If it is a material thing, say a mystical gemstone that does the "work" of stealing said entity's powers, then you also have the very physical "mcguffin" for teasing around and driving various plots for further exploration. What happens when the gem gets stolen? How much more tension comes about when some unsuspecting gem-thief finds out that this particular stone is so powerful? AND of course, what if the Patron suddenly decides to start sending others (demons, fey, shades, ghosts, a poultry-geist army, etc...) to negotiate the gemstone's safe return for some otherwise unknowable purpose??? Maybe there's a reason that THIS gemstone is special enough to act as a "power-sink" for that specific entity...
Personally, I enjoy investing in just about anything that can generate narrative without my overt investments into direct invention. At the same time, use of this kind of power "without consequence" should ONLY last through the lower levels. At some point, particularly when the PC(s) can handle it, someone should start showing up and poking around about the whole situation, if not outright "making trouble" because of it. ;o)
And when the entity becomes aware of its power being stolen it might actually start making pacts with people and start sending other warlocks after the party. And especially at the start of a game this creates an interesting mechanic that the warlock cant draw too much power to further go unnoticed.
Springboarding off that: if you look at the 4th Edition entries for the Warlock (especially the Hexblade from Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms), the book explicitly makes clear that even Infernal Pacts can be made by GOOD characters with demons/devils AGAINST THE PATRON'S WILL. The "implied reality" of the Infernal Pact is that the Warlock is stealing new power from the patron as they level up, earning increasing enmity from the Patron as they do.
I take the 4e narrative info into consideration when I think about Warlock stories because I find it illuminating. The Starpact Warlock, for example, birthed many spells related to eldritch entities in the cosmos. Of that rich material, only Hadar made the transition to the next edition. Gibbeth, Nihal, Caiphon, Acamar etc. are left out of the PHB...but all that rich insight into the narrative Warlock remains to be plundered and help differentiate character concepts.
Personally, I often reskin Patrons to be different varieties of each other rather than remain beholden to the printed word "Archfey" or "Infernal." Many times, I turn other patrons into GOO. After all, mesmerizing and terrifying onlookers (fey) , casting beings into other planes (Infernal), or channeling the light of the stars (celestial) are all thematically in line with any number of Lovecraftian beings. I tend to strip the narrative from the mechanics, then staple my own theme onto it. Thus, a Hexblade or Undying Pact could be incorporated to make a different style of play, but the former be a Kos Parasite GOO or the latter become a Charles Dexter Ward of sorts.
I guess my rant is directed at the notion that Warlocks have to play specifically into the implied role printed on the paper where none of the other classes have this same...innate level of being shoehorned in a narrative direction. The Rogue can be anything from a military agent to street thug to research excavator yet I have seen vitriol from narrowed minds when the idea of multiclassing a Paladin and Warlock is mentioned.
The warlock doesn't even have to HAVE a patron. Switch some names around and suddenly each Patron is a different Emotional Spectrum Corps like Green Lantern. Maybe a rules-GOO warlock is themed to be an occult investigator, where each spell/ability and invocation is attributed to one of many diverse trinkets rather than the character itself or what would typically be deemed a Warlock's patron. (Also my favorite ways to create the Magic Item Collector trope without disrupting the rules for magic items: turn Burning Hands into a flamethrower and transform Thought Shield into Magneto's helmet and Eldritch Blast into the "Black Sky Eye" and Otherworldly Leap into Boots of Springheel Jack, etc. )
Anthony Eisses so basically, the warlock commiting identity theft on their patron. *Patron wearing glasses and staring incredulously at a piece of parchment* "What is with these ridiculous charges from the material plane? I haven't touched a virgin in centuries! Evocation? In a belfry?!"
Love your vid man as always, but ....
I don't viewed the Warlock pact as the Master/Apprentice relationship, rather I see it as a Broker of Power and the person(s) who have a price to pay. There is mention of being bestowed to a warlock for loyal service under the "Pact Boon" ability, but loyal servitude comes in many forms (coercion, devotion and even manipulation).
Such as the case of my warlock Mootarou, I've viewed the pact as one made by his ancestors whose price for power will one day be claimed by some unseen greater creature. Given Warlock patrons are creatures such as Archfey, Fiend, or in Mootarou's case Great Old One, I feel like it's more out of place to suddenly begin instigating communicating with greater planar creatures without any actual power/ability to do so. Should there be any interaction between a Warlock and their patron, it should come from the god-like patron reaching down not the other way around.
Stories such as someone selling their soul to a devil for power, a distant relative to performed a forgotten Old God ritual or an unassuming encounter with a feast of strange fey delicacies in the woods are all viable means of acquiring a patron imo. The Master Apprentice relationship kind of implies that the warlock is being shaped or groomed to one day equal or succeed the patron which I just don't see happening based on the selection of patrons. I mean maybe in some games/settings becoming as powerful as patrons is a viable option but I certainly don't feel it's the only or "right way" to play.
PS: Love you Guy....don't kill Mootarou.
That's why this channel is here my friend - so we can have these kinds of conversations. Your approach to a Warlock is your own and you make a very eloquent case for it. I don't disagree with what you have said either! For me the opportunity of the master/apprentice, lord/minion for RP is a defining trait of the Warlock class, so avoiding it may limit that, is all I am saying. Besides, Mootarou is special. And know.. I won't kill Mootarou, he isn't the source of the problem... the Ozzie behind him is :p
Touche my friend and I greatly respect all kinds of points of view. Though secretly I'm waiting for the day that it comes for my beloved bovine's bill to come due.
If I do a D&D campaign I definitely want the ability to become a god yourself after a very long grind. The best mythologies in my opinion have gods that were mortals that overcome nigh supernatural challenges enough to prove themselves worthy of that power.
Silas Stryder raven queen.
Lol I mean without dying first.
I love how one video I'm watched stated Warlock is the most diverse class in the game. They have so many different ways they can be built that you can have a room full of warlocks and none of them are alike. You are saying they are all basically the same
Just found this video. Love it. I am currently playing a Warlock. I joined the campaign late so had to be written in at level 5. So, my DM let me have fun with my back story. I play a Fey (in the Fey Wild) whom as a youngster made a regrettable pact with an Archfey who sent me to do all his work without any of the glory, teasing that in due time I would become great and powerful. One day, when working one of these tasks, encountered another Archfey and was swapped away in admiration. She gave me a magic ring and severed my tie with my original patron becoming my new patron. When my old patron felt this a great battle ensued, to protect me my new patron forced me through a portal to another realm.
Falling into this realm I find myself in a forest of a strange land. There I meet my new party who literally pull me out of a bush I was hiding in. As I am from the Fey wild I skip, charm and become kind of strange pet to the party who never questioning where I came from or my motivation. Every night we rest I sit as the guard (#only need 4 hours for long rest) I stare at my ring, my wondrous gift, wondering when I will get the call. Exploring this strange world till then….
Later on, we are trapped by a White Lich who puts a spell of control over the party (evil campaign phase @Level 10) My Party mates all get a taste of a warlock’s life, being told what to do. Temporarily blinded by power, I happily go about doing this Liches biding, becoming a Dark Princess of Shadow Walking. At Level 15 we encounter another great Elf who gives us the option to break this White Liches control. The party overwhelmed with the powers we have been granted, isn't about to let anyone cut this line. When, for just a moment, my ring glows and I remember the love I felt for my Patron before this Lich (but after the first one...) And I take up the offer. The party almost goes into civil war.... but then remembering that I am super spooky with strange powers decide to follow my lead and we broke our chains of the White Lich.
We are still playing this campaign, but I am eager apply the ideas from this video to my charter.
Thanks!
Thank you thank you thank you! As a GM I was ignoring this aspect now I have a plethora of rich ideas for that character's story arc!
My current character is Kralok the Spacially Unstable, a Kobold Warlock who used to be the guy who stamped the deals Major Daemons made with mortals. However, after he, his master and all his master's other followers were sent into a pocket universe by a bunch of religious people who just wanted Kralok's master gone, he was stuck. When some cultists attempted to resummon the being, they accidentally summoned poor Kralok, who has now been blamed for sabotaging the escape of the being he was completely loyal to and absoloutely terrified of.
As such, Kralok is slowly receiving his deity's powers, and will eventually get stuck for eternity in the pocket universe, while his master gets back to reality. He's also really paranoid he'll die before then, and screw everything up. He's also completely confused about other races' culture, which led to his throat being slit in the first ten minutes of the campaign.
I made a Warlock that was an alcoholic beacause his "Master" had multiple personalities who were constantly debating about everything...and he could hear it even when he was sleeping....poor poor Plarekk...
The warlock is my favorite class and I love you breakdown of it, I'm also happy to report that my GM and I have had a blast in our new campaign exploring the connection between my warlock and his Great Old One patron. I think you'd be pleased with how we've given weight to the pact and it's influence. Additionally, while I'm here, I want to thank you for your Great GM series; my homebrew setting wouldn't exist without your inspiration.
Warlocks are probably my favorite classes.
The first character I played was a warlock who made a blood-pact with a demon in a fit of rage and powerlessness as he saw how inquisitors where rounding up and killing his friends. So after disposing of the inquisitors in a rather bloody fashion he was stuck with the pact he made, only really thinking about it after the fact.
It wasn't the master / apprentice relationship you described but rather a debtor owing a loan shark quite a lot. It was fun because at every turn I tried to wiggle out the contract.
I respectfully disagree with the generalized view. If I said: all paper and pen RPGs are the same because they require paper and pens. That statement is far from accurate , even if it is arguably factual.
Doesn’t it take two people to play a warlock right? Doesn’t it require the DM and player working together?
Since you have never seen a warlock played right. What is it that you have been doing wrong, DMing or playing?
Your videos are top shelf and incredibly informative.
Thank you
"Entity is giving power to this person, the Warlock."
I'm gonna stop you right there.
In the fluff for the Great Old One patron, page 109 of the PHB: "The Great Old One might be unaware of your existence or entirely indifferent to you, but the secrets you have learned allow you to draw your magic from it."
^This is a kind of Warlock that has their power, but no contract has been signed, no deal has been made.
Just like how no 2 Wizards or Clerics are the same, why should any Warlock be the same as any other?
I feel you are trying to force the Warlock's player into a specific kind of character. YOUR 'correct' way of how it should be played.
I'd argue that outside of outright not acknowledging that they weren't born with the power like a Sorcerer, learned their power like a Wizard, or been chosen by their deity like a Cleric.. There isn't really a 'wrong' way to play your own character.
Trying to force YOUR view of how a class should be played onto anybody else is rather.. closed minded.
Perhaps you would like to borrow my copy of the Necronomicon, and Awaken your Mind?
Agreed. It irks me when people try to claim they know what the "correct" way to play anything in an RPG. It's totally up to the players and GM to decide how they want to play.
You're correct, and I go further: I even let my players fluff their way or of any official fluff if they keep the mechanics.
That's how it should be. And honestly, if their fluff requires you to make a little adjustment in the mechanics (Nothing more intense than a damage/energy type), like a Tiefling that's resistant to Cold instead of Fire, because it fits their personal character fluff better?
I'm sure that is negotiable with most DMs.
Downvoted for using the term "fluff". It's not "fluff", it's literally the thing you're playing. If you see D&D as a battle game and the "fluff" is just all the stuff in paragraphs around the character stats in the PHB, then that's how you play the game, and you're not really playing. You are playing wrong. You are having badwrongfun.
+Robert Tommer
Unfortunately, the downvote button does literally nothing on TH-cam, other than make the thumbs down light up and make you feel good about yourself.
Just going to say, the intro is how i imagine every viewer of this channel, me included, when trying to use your mythical gm powers
The pact is literally *the* reason I made my warlock character, a tiefling named Temperance. A being from another reality contacted her in her dreams, that has no concept of her existence. It regards her with condescending curiosity, she regards it with horrorified disgust. Her patron gave her her power just to see what she'll do with it, and will sometimes for her hand to satisfy its curiosity. If she were 'threatened' with losing her power, she would go out of her way to call out that threat to free herself of the entity's influence. I think it's a little odd that you said all warlocks are effectively the same even as you assumed that all warlocks choose to be warlocks.
A intresting point for the Warlock class is that is is the easiest to explain magical addition to a otherwize non magical character. If the pact being made in game makes it a more strongly made narrative then one made in backstory in my opinion.
Secondly, one could make a twizt and have the PC being the one who outsmarted the patron into granting power. Either through trickery or just abusing an opurtune moment so the patron had no better option.
The concept of non-evil patrons are also a good way to make it less, hostile so to speak. Maybe a genie lord or some such.
Played a Hexblade Warlock that had a sentient weapon as the power giver.
It needed to consume a soul every three days, which only happened when I dealt the killing blow with the blade. Usually not so problematic, but our party was trying to travel unnoticed for more than that. So I had to sneak around at night and kill someone.
It could also see said souls (even through walls), which was particularly confusing, when there were millions inside a ship; turned out it was insects in barrels.
Does that mean you could carry around a bag of bugs or have some sort of small creature summoning thing to satiate the sword?
to be honest if it works with insects i would just keep loads of snails in a bag of holding (since snails tend to not run away)
So insects have souls...?
Is there an insect afterlife? An insect pantheon of gods??
i mean...there sometimes are humanoid insects in D&D after all so why not?
The Bringer of Bountiful Picnics is the ant god of the harvest, and She Who Blots Out the Sun blesses the fertility of locusts.
I recently started a campaign playing a halfling warlock bounty hunter. I'm still new to the game in general, so I'm still trying to flesh out his personality. But the idea was that he made the pact with a great old one to obtain powers that would help him become a feared and great bounty hunter, because otherwise his stature would've probably prevented him from that.
so from a world point of view how do you tell a warlock from a sorcerer that hears voices in their head?
simple: sorcerers dont have eldritch blast.
A successful warlock is loyal to their pact and ambition revolves around it. It can feel more like RPing two entities vs a sorcerer can feel like RPing half an entity.
i wouldnt say a successful warlock is loyal to their pact. i think an interesting warlock follows their own agenda and thus comes into conflict with the patron.
I would say nay. An interesting warlock to me is one that can play out the conflict it has with it's patron. A warlock might have made the pact at the time to gain power they might not have otherwise for a specific goal, but not understood all that would be asked. So then the patron commands the warlock to do something the warlock doesn't agree with and so their alignments clash. The patron wants the warlock to say kill an npc that is loyal to the party. The warlock considers the npc a friend and doesn't want to. So what do they do? Kill the npc or risk the wrath of the supreme being on the party? But then if they do kill the npc the warlock risks disenfranchising themselves from the party. Just an example.
DarkCurow yes thats what ive said. A warlock is interesting when He doesnt want to obey the Patron.
I have a warlock in the campaign I DM and he has a quite good relationship with his patron. The patron is a fallen shadowfell god who is using the character to collect certain artifacts that will restore him to godhood. It's a very master/apprentice relationship. He frequently communes with the patron, and the patron consistently pulls him into the shadowfell to teach him new stuff, give him new powers, get updates on the quest, or give advice for next steps. It's so much fun.
I'd play a withered husk, straightjacket wearing, completely taken over squeaky happy to do ANYTHING zealot GOO Warlock. "I'm so sorry you're all worshiping the wrong god, my patron the Great Old One is the ultra-neato bestie of all besties"... "Sure I'll fight that dragon with a spoon if you'd like Dearest Great Old One, of course I'm super duper jeepers ok with that"!
That would be so fun to play omg
Best Idea ever
I play a warlock with a Great Old One pact. My take on it is that she has trouble determining what is real and what isn't, she sees things that others can't and knows things that she by rights shouldn't be able to know.
The whole point of the Old Ones is, in my opinion, that they are things that "should not be" but are anyway, and I try to incorporate as much of this concept in my character's attitude and actions as I can, as well as subvert the expectations of my fellow players as much as possible.
I play the opposite, a goolock that is actively trying to destroy his patron. The guy might be completely insane, always looking 30 paces to the left, but when he turns you invisible you see "it" too.
lordcrunk sounds like a paladin loljk
Thank you for this. My players just don't get it at times and this helps. Keep them coming!
I know that a lot of what's expressed in your videos is not necessarily for the video game enthusiasts, but a lot of what you say here and in other videos has helped enrich my game play in the type of games that I play. I don't play RPGs or even the MMO I'm playing for the sake of accomplishments. I want to play and build a character that does the things I want it to do and if it helps others... So be it. So far... So good! Thank you!
The way I deal with Warlocks is that I throw away a lot of what the book says and I just think "ok what dose this Old One/demon/Fay or what ever want and what does it view as a suitable reword or punishment?" So if its a demon and they do the things it likes I give them demon powers or aesthetics. It would amaze you what players would be willing to do or put up with so they can get bat wings with a slow fall ability, or evil eyes with a once a day fear or insanity spell. I have run a character into suicidal odds but they were happy to do it if they get cool things even if they don't do all that much.
You could pass notes that have riddles drawings or unfinished statements in the session where the warlock is getting hazy mental images and so they have to figure out clues to do what the patron wants them to do, and if they do it or guess right they could get a new power or effects to their existing powers. The game is about being creative with established rules but also you can throw the rules away if it means people have more fun or the story is made better for it.
I just cannot stop looking at the horns.
Ey,
My eyes are down here ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
My Warlocks patron is himself. In the future, the Warlock has elevated himself to an Archfiend, initially via Wish, then by amassing loads of power. In a frantic and epic battle, a 12th level spell was used to destroy him, but only managed to hurl him back in time. Being in a greatly weakened state, he sought out his previous self and promised/gave power. His only demand is that the PC achieve greatness, and make sure he does not deviate from the path that led him to becoming and Archfiend. It's a time loop that the narrative will eventually address and change.
I just started to play a warlock, and I have been having so much fun with her and the party. She is a warlock who made a pact with a fiend. She was a noble who lived a very sheltered lifestyle with her father, until she was kidnapped by the cult of Malcanthet and set to be sacrificed to the Succubi.
During those few brief moment she begged and pleaded for her life, vowing vengeance on the people who sold her out to the cult. Little did she know someone answered her callings. They gave her the power to fend off the cultists and she has been hunting down the people who sold her out to the cult ever since.
My warlock doesn't know the true identity of her patron( even though I know it) and always sees her as an attractive woman. She knows they are some sort of fiend but that is about it. I love the fact that my character doesn't know her patron and is pretty much in-debt to them because they gave her the power to save her life. She's a super fun character and I can't wait to see how my GM ties everything together!
"The Great Ones that inhabit the nightmare are sympathetic in spirit, and often answer when called upon"
The Nameless and Unspeakable Ones are not evil. They are not evil and also not good. People often say they come from a different dimensions, but much closer it would be that they are from a place where the word "dimension" doesn't applie. Just as the word "place".
You are not talking to a creature that is unbelievable far away and speaks a different language. Because language doesn't exist where they are.
People say to look at a Great Old One is to go mad, but much more fitting would be that you need to be mad to look at them. Not in the sense that it is a bad idea, but in a sense that sane people look the same way and see nothing but air.
Imagen a giant flying mass with more colors than there are stars in the night sky. Your insanity allows you to see a single limb in a single color of this mass.
Understanding what cannot be understood.
But while powerful beyon all limits, the great old ones have the same problem. They don't understand what we call language. They only see our dimension with a filter, but not that it removes most colors, but other things we cannot image the world without. We are just as alien to them as they are to us. But we can't bend reality like a rope.
If they actually make contact, they help if called apone. Like a man saving a ant from a glass of water. But they might do things that end badly, without even knowing. They might help in a way they expect to improve our live, but actually do damage.
They are helpful and they would like to learn more, but the language and reality barrier blocks most of it in both ways.
If you actually manage to make a pact, they would like to keep you alive, but it's like a pet ant in a forest. They don't seek to do damage, but they might do some trying to do what seems best.
Good luck talking to anyone about this. Trying to explain this what cannot be explained, you will look like a madman. How could others even tell the difference? Heck, how can you even tell the difference?
The quest is as impossible as it is pure. Befriending a force past good and evil, infinitly more powerful that every god and devil you know combind, past a wall that you can't see or speak through
I loved this so much I took a picture of the whole thing. Is this a quote from some specific thing? Because I’m definitely honing to incorporate this line of thinking an old one warlock if I ever make one.
@@thespieg8813 If I remember correctly, this is from Bloodborne, which was all the hype 4 years ago.
Long story short, you are the ant in the forest. And the great old one is the dude going for a walk.
He might crush you without knowing you are there. If you actually manage to talk to him he will move mountains (half a hand full of dirt) for you. But even if he thinks you are cool, he will just find you again.
And most of your fellow ants never saw a human before, so you are crazy for them.
@@TheTSense I completely missed the part mentioning the nightmare. I love Bloodborne and am ashamed I missed that, but it definitely makes sense.
I'm currently playing an aasimar warlock/paladin where he has a pact with his celestial guide, basically, the celestial guide is the founder of his bloodline and he makes a pact to the first born of every generation in the family to keep the bloodline going. A family duty kind of pact that each first born is honor bound to continue with the celestial guide's mission.
leander_r nice! I like the family theme you have there. I'm playing an aasimar warlock/ fighter, who thought he made a pact with his grandfather, an archon.
I like where you're going with the bloodline thing. Very cool.
I once had a character in a campaign I was GMing who was a warlock through a pact made by one of her ancestors. This pact was made with a fiend who was the major villain of the campaign. This led to the character constantly trying to fight the influence of her patron, while needing the power to try to take the fiend down.
It's awesome to see someone call this out. When I played my Warlock Mahado and I had to stop and do certain riddle and puzzle things my pay just started blankly. I explained that my patron's shtick was puzzles and curiosity, as such it was basically a tenant that if I ran across an instance of that I was required to involve myself in it. My GM enjoyed it and even allowed me to attempt invocation to communicateand try to ask questions from time to time. So thank you for putting this out there. I do have to say that your statement of it being a new playable class is inaccurate. I'm not sure about 4th edition, however in D&D 3.5 Warlock was a playable class. It was my bread and butter back in those days. It was then add it is now, at least for me, a utilitarian caster. I treat it usually as the support fighter. I melee but can support the party with the incredibly versatile spelllist at the Warlocks disposal. Hope this was informative. I thoroughly enjoy your channel, please keep up the good work sir.
Call of Cthulhu would be a great place to go next; I would give reasons but the un-namable one has demanded I paint a portrait every month or he'll take my eldritch blast away... And I haven't even started this month's portrait!
is this including k'thriss drow'b? hes all about the ur.
I had the opportunity to step away from DMing and play recently. I decided to try out a Warlock. I played two sessions with the character. It was absolutely brilliant! The first session I cast a few damage spells. The second session I casted some cantrips for theatrics and directed the other players in doing my dastardly bidding. It was a wonderful experience for me to understand how Warlocks are played by playing one. We all had a excellent time.
I've been playing my warlock wrong. I really enjoy your insight into the class. I am certainly going to approach things differently. There is so much potential in this class.
"that's why he's cutting off the heads of all those babies, no carry on george..."
XD
The biggest problem is that there are so few great GMs who are willing to allow/help players to create and explore a character with a real backstory. If only there were someone who could create a series of TH-cam videos on how to be a better GM...
*cough* geeks and sundry *cough*
Matt colville *cough*
A lot of the warlocks we have had in the table had their price for power already paid:
Old one: the entity isn't really aware of him but paid his sanity for his power.
Fae: 1 as a kid was lost in the fae and a half stole a part of his youth for magic and to get back home.
2 another won a bet with a satyr noble during a party
3 one give some orphans to an expy of the beast of over the garden wall.
I'm currently playing a celestial one that got the attention of said celestial by fighting for others until what seemed like her last moments and the celestial enjoys "making heroes" to increase it's own status amongst it's peers.
I have a new Warlock character on my party, have been struggling. This is GOLD! ⭐️
Travis Willingham plays an amazing Warlock on Critical Role. Surprised you haven't seen it.
As much as I love Critical Role (and I REALLY DO), I don't yet feel the intimate connection between him and his patron. To me Jester feels WAY MORE like a Warlock than Fjord.
I do agree that the character of Jester interacts very well, albeit FAR to much thus far, with her deity. That being said, they have done a PHENOMENAL job thus far of bulding up Travis's character's interaction with his deity thus far as well. Just... it's not a casual Sunday style of campaign, where the campaign may last for 15-20 sessions before everyone is to bored to be bothered to show up anymore. Mercer is building this up to take place over the next 4 years and 300+ play sessions.
I agree, and in Matt Mercer/Travis I trust.
But what should be different between and Cleric and a Warlock is the relationship to the patreon.
Cleric - The deity is distant
Warlock - The patron can show up anytime to ask for a task that he wants.
An good exemple for that is the brimstone angels series. If you haven't reqd it treat yourself and do it. It is awesome
At least, it is my respectful opinion, and I'm not arguing at all :)
I would also say that in terms of roleplayer, Percy was also a brilliant and slightly different Warlock.
Al Jarvis I take that it’s only a matter of time before the Kraken Patron come into play :)
I am currently playing a warlock in a campaign a friend of mine is running. His name is Scribe, as he is a Great Old One/Pact of the Tome/Kenku Warlock. He uses the telepathy given to him to get his points across to others, and his tome is like book of vile darkness, a book of infinite pages. His job is to follow those fated for greatness and record the tracks of history, and any forbidden knowledge they may uncover on the way. He got this as a being me and the DM call "The Archives" needed a being to act as his "Scribe" for the library of timeless history, as the previous one in our region died. So his tome fell amount a tribe of Kenku, with the promise that if the one chosen is able to live out his sentence and record enough knowledge, he will bestow upon every Kenku the knowledge on how to break the curse that plagues their people, so they may fly and speak and develop once more.
As a "Scribe" he is to observe the actions of the party, and be a tool at their request. Only fight should his life be at risk, and only aid when requested. Every night (thanks to the invocation that states he does not need to eat or sleep) he summons a Abberation from his entity, and is to re-account all that has happened in the days prior. He constantly strives to gain enough knowledge so his time can be up, but there is a catch. His time will never be up. As history keeps being made the library expands and just as a slot on its shelves are filled another is made empty. So he will continue this form of slavery to a false promise and until his unknowing demise at the hands of a catastrophic event. Where he will spend his last moments, hoping the last line he writes will be all that is left.
Carry on George! - best joke on the channel! Warlock is my favourite class and my character plays clearly control role in party because he gained power from hastur(god of madness) so all mind tricks are avaible :) I love the channel and all of the videos-that's the best rpg channel that I know. Well done!
My first character in DnD ever was a Warlock, whose Patron was Dendar, The Night Serpent. Her deal with the character in question almost inevitably leads to the problem that you described, but it also makes sense in the scenario. The deal in question was that I was to wear a cursed pendant that would give me horrible nightmares every night when I went to sleep for Her to feed on. I was to never take this pendant off; to do so would break the Pact. So outside of making sure that I kept wearing the pendant at all times, She really didn’t care about what I did in the mortal realm, and so my Pact was rarely brought up, outside of one or two unique cases.
"Hello, good human. I'm The Crawling Chaos and I will give you some powers if you do something for me."
"Powers in exchange for what?"
"I'll give you a flute and on your spare time just play it so my boss doesn't wake up and end the world. You, of course, have no way of knowing when the others are playing if there even are others. Just a moment of silence and all ceases to exist."
"Neat-o! I'm sure this will let me live a full life as an adventurer and the thought of our insignificant existence, in this vaster than I realised macrocosm, will in no way drive me insane."
I hate it that they named Cthulhu as a Great Old One because now I have a hard time separating them from lovecraftian mythos. :
Woah! Nice story. So there had to be at least one person playing the flute at all times?
I’ve only played the game a few times, and just sorta assume the GM knows what they’re doing, so don’t get offended if this isn’t at all how this works, but I had a lot of fun playing a Warlock who made a contract with a spirit whose main condition was just that the Warlock had to spread their name and make them famous, to increase their following.
So I just ran around as an eccentric do-gooder, screaming “YES! REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE DEMON WHO HELPED YOU!” and basically created a cult of people who thought he was more of a superhero than a monster ^^;;
Warlock being my favorite class, I have devised some strange ways to play it and I have a few favorites (mechanically and roleplay). But I do agree it is very easy to fall into the trappings of a 'generic' warlock, what with eldritch blast and all that.
This is the exact insight that warlock players need to see. I was with a player once that give up on his warlock because he felt he didn't have any say in his character because he felt railroaded by his patron. He showed up to the table with a pre built warlock, never consulted the GM, and then was upset when he couldn't just murder hobo his way across the country side.
I know of one person who plays Tiefling Warlock well but as TheRogue says, the prewritten campaigns don't seem to focus on the pact of a warlock in the stories. It would be up to DMs/GMs to run something with it.
In my experience though, the player backstory is still lacking.
The prewritten campaigns can't know how many Warlocks are in the party (and which type of pact they have), so they can't account for that.
No, but every GM who knows their players can and should weave the pact into the stories at least somewhat
Yes, don't blame the game, blame the players :)
Psionics are good. Otherwise, I'd like to see what you think of Iron Kingdoms overall.
Great food for thought. Thanks!
I completely agree with this video. Currently I am playing a warlock of the undying and his pact is with Larloch, arguably the first lich. Larloch is currently teaching my warlock how to use his abilities to live for as long as possible. They are very much like the Emperor and Vader
So my Warlock was fairly unique, though I'll grant a lot of that comes from the circumstances of his creation and setting. Here's him in a nutshell:
Viktor Markov was a Changeling Archfey Warlock in an evil campaign my wife ran.
Viktor was actually the name of a human nobleman who he replaced. The kingdom he belonged to was opposed to magic, and his patron, The Queen of Air & Darkness, wanted to put an end to it.
As a result Viktor spent the campaign systematically eliminating noble families within the kingdom as well as tearing down the barriers between the kingdom and the feywild.
At the end of the story he helped her merge the realms, and took on the role of emperor of this hybrid land.
I'd say Viktor was a pretty effective Warlock, all said :)
I had great time roleplaying an evilish drow who was tricked into pact with solar entity :)
I love that so much and I want to play that character!
Actually inspired something in me to bring that’s the closest to genius I’ve ever conceived thank you so much
Really cool video, and such interesting timing on my part when watched this. I am currently playing a Barbarian whom early on in her adventures was strong-armed into a pact with Fea queen. (My GM basically gave me choose, post the events to enter a multi-class state. They had plans for either me saying yes or no as a player if it was something that interested me.) I rolled with it. What happened was someone my character was very much in love with was about to be killed by a few tons of rock. Time stopped suddenly for a moment and I was approached by the Fea Queen and was told that if I agreed to serve her I would be granted power, and she would save my beloved. The Queen told me choose had to made quick she could only hold time for so long. Feeling there was no other choose my Barbarian agreed. Her beloved was saved, my Barb was marked with a new tattoo to symbolize her new status, and discovered new abilities. She also discovered this strange flower she had been attracted (strangely so) to weeks earlier was actually a little pixie who had been spying for the Queen! This put my Barb on edge, and at first, things were very contentious between her and the Queen. Good thing for my Barb, that the Queen found my lady Barbs mouthiness entertaining (and was no doubt expecting it since she had been spying on me).
As time has evolved however my Barb and the Queen have become sort frenmys. My Barb is always on the lookout for a way to one day, not beholden to the Queen but has learned the Queen is a wealth of knowledge and power. A few times when the group is over its head magically my Barb has indeed gone to the Queen for nuggets of magical wisdom. My Barb has also learned what the Fea Queen's tastes are and learned when going to her for help to offer some knowledge or bobble she might like in return. So as not to further her debt to the Queen. Thus far the Queen's requests in the pact have not come at major crossroads with the group, or my Barbs pretty much neutral morality.
At any rate, when you got to what you felt you saw people were doing wrong with warlock I was like OH GOOD I am not doing that, because I have been banking into my characters pact, all be it with caution appropriate to the situation and her character's traits in mind. LOL
I find that I disagree about Warlocks not having some kind of specific "role" in the group. Between their patron, pact gifts, and their invocations a Warlock can be customized to do specific jobs. It requires a bit of planning, but you can have a warlock that is a lot like a paladin with a bit more magic in a day but a bit less protection or maybe you want some super crazy damage dealer that machine-guns people with eldritch blasts.
It's possible to do all kinds of things, you just have to have focus.
For instance, if a Warlock were to pick a Celestial patron, they gain access to healing that they can do as bonus actions along with some very nice clerical spells. Couple that with a focus on "pact of the blade" and bam you can start smiting people, making multiple attacks, and so on!
Or if you want more utility, rock out with a Great Old One patron and get a bunch of mind-controlling effects that you can use to manipulate the battlefield.
OR if you wana just do tons of damage, Hexblade Patron or Fiend work wonders for attacking your foes.
Machine-gun people with eldritch blasts... yep, that's my warlock. But then I multi-classed into sorcerer to make that work even better...
I think Warlocks shine in smaller parties, because they can wear a lot of hats. I'm in a party that had 4 people, and just lost a player who was playing Bard. I was getting sick of my wizard, so I decided that it would be a good time to switch to a new character. I decided to go with Warlock because it can be party face, has good range with Eldritch Blast, can use ritual spells to pick up the slack from the missing Wizard, and in a couple levels gets clouds and walls combined with the Repelling Blast invocation to take care of control. Had I gone Celestial instead of Fiend, I could play healer instead of controller. If I wasn't working with a Rogue and a Fighter, I could frontline as a Hexblade. Other classes are specialists, Warlocks have a utility belt they can swap things in and out of.
@DrLipkin
>I think Warlocks shine in smaller parties, because they can wear a lot of hats.
My party's warlock takes that a bit too literally. He took the Mask of Many Faces invocation and uses it primarily to change his hat. =I
The best way to differentiate warlock types is their relationship with their patron. Are they a loyal servant? Is the patron some inscrutable being who is barely aware of them (a bit of a cop-out)? Are they a begrudging servant who made a business deal? Are they an unwilling servant (sold by parents, accidentally entered the pact, arbitrarily chosen)? Do they have a more personal relationship rather than it simply being a business transaction? and one of the most important things to consider, is this power actually revocable? All of these lead to different character types, and could probably manifest in different choices in abilities depending on how the player/GM wants to handle it.
The correct way you describe to play a warlock is in my opinion the best reason to play one. You get amazing built in role play and story. That's why they are my favorite class if you have the right DM.
I put together a Warlock character, and I started out with the question of what patron class did I want to use?
I chose Archfey.
Next two questions, Why would the patron want minion, and what was the minion's reason for accepting the pact to become a warlock?
So now I have an abandoned half-elf girl warlock with a history of abuse and anger sworn to the service of Mab, the queen of Air and Darkness. When the she makes her patron happy, she is treated like a favored daughter. Of course there is one little thing Mab wants her servant to do, and that is to punish those that had abandoned her. Punish them, but offer them the opportunity to make things right by returning to their stern but understanding mother. My warlock has the duty to 'punish' Drow.
Shamans and Alchemists.
This is much more a GM problem than a player problem, I've found.
Great episode. About to play a Paladin/Warlock and looking forward to some interesting conflict and development.
I'm playing a Great Old One Warlock in one campaign, and one of my players in my campaign is a Hexblade Warlock.
My character is being "haunted" in a way by his patron. He was left a cursed stone that has caused him to have horrifying dreams and develop a boatload of phobias, and he can't get rid of it. He began as a Divine Soul Sorcerer who was originally going to dip two levels into Warlock, but his patron, Pandorym, stole his divine spark, replacing his Sorcerer levels with Warlock. If my character wants his original magic back or to find out what happened to his father (the previous carrier of the stone), he'll have to work against Pandorym's corrupting influence as best he can.
In the campaign I'm running (Curse of Strahd), the Hexblade is a Dhampyr and the bastard child of Strahd. She has unwittingly made a pact with the Dark Powers of Barovia, and these two connections are what initially drew her into the demiplane. She has a corrupted arm that writes the commands or suggestions of the Dark Powers on its own, as they try to tempt her with power. The Dark Powers are setting her and the rest of the party up for a battle with Strahd, but have no personal stake in the party's success... in a way, they're testing Strahd, and ultimately plan to replace him if he fails.
With my crew, I divide warlocks by patron; Fiend, Fae, Draconic, Aberration, etc. Sort of like how clerics get different domains, warlocks and their potential vary by their patron type. They get different rewards and abilities depending on their patron and how well they please them. Ideally, warlocks should definitely have a more intimate relationship with their patron, more like a cleric than a druid. However, that is in my campaign, and while it works for my players, I'd love to know how other people handle it!
well all of what you said is in the players handbook.
but i definitely agree with the more intimate relationship. it should be very personal. A god might have thousands of clerics but a Devil might only have this one warlock since there are so much more fiends than gods and so much less warlocks than clerics. And the entity has a reason to get themselves a warlock, wehatever that reason may be.
I go back to look at Tome of Magic from 3.5 for inspirations from the Binder class and the other alternate magic systems introduced by that book when it comes to Warlocks. The names and profiles of the vestiges alone are some great fodder for personifying Patrons.
For stat info, I use the players handbook, but I like to springboard off of that and reward my PCs for being loyal to their god/patron/whatever in roleplay as well. Obviously a good patron will reward wanted behavior and punish unwanted behavior, but that varies by patron type too; Fae are probably far more inclined to reward or punish spontaneously, while something like a Devil will almost definitely make sure the warlock knows why and how they're being rewarded/punished.
It gets super interesting if a patron has multiple warlocks (obviously not as many clerics as a god has, but maybe like five warlocks?); then there's a tension between warlocks to compete for power (which might be exactly what the patron wants). All kinds of cool stuff.
I've been devouring the 3.5 books for my latest campaign, so thanks for the suggestion! :D
Dat greenscreen error at the beginning...
Warlocks are the perfect example of "someone wants something badly and is having difficulty getting it." Both the warlock and the patron have their own goals and the way those goals interact with each other can create a fantastic narrative.
Mechanically in 5th Edition warlocks can have their patron be an Archfey, Fiend or Great Old One, all of which have very different abilities. And with the addition of the Xanathar's Guide supplement, the patron can also be a celestial, a sentient weapon or an immortal.
Warlocks are exceptionally customisable through their pact boon (pact of the chain, blade or tome) and also their invocations. A pact of the tome warlock. They're essentially a mix and match as you can pick your own combination of features as you progress.
I'm creating a Lvl 5 Half-elf Monk (Way of the open hand), who was abandoned by his elf mother at a monastary, picked up by his dad and taken to sea 10 years later, then after losing his dad and his human monk mentor to old age, got a call and made a pact with an Ancient Empyrean (Celestial, CG) giving him a new life purpose. The Celestial has not yet given my warlock explicit instructions as to what he's supposed to do other than "Take this power I bestow you and learn the ways of magic and get more powerful until the time I need you" and my character has done this for 3 warlock levels (Campaign is starting at level 8) and he now has a PotC Celestial Imp following him around. He's a sailor that goes from ship to ship, protecting ship, crew ad cargo from roaming Pirates. I'm glad you mentioned the "looking for signs" and "communing with your Patron" thing, because I had intended on making my monk somewhat pious without being a priest. Have you any additional thoughts?
P.S. I made a 5 monk/ 3 Chainlock because I liked a video where the build used the push back of WotOH and repelling blast to constantly push enemies back into a Cloud of Knives for ridiculous per round damage. I also have Hex (CoK and Hex are both concentration) for more open ship to ship combat as it seems more practical there. Sphere of Flame also taken as a spell for setting other ships on fire. XD
I don't know if this is mentioned anywhere else. But what if the player and the patron are at odds. The more the player uses the power they are given the more control the player the patron has over them. Eventually the player must hav a battle of wills (or maybe a imagined battle in their head ) for control of the body. Whoever wins is now the one in control (so the character effectively might die) or maybe the party can then try to help the player trapped inside their own head.
KodaPug patrons have no powers over warlocks. The game devs have talked about this. Level one represents the pact being completed and finished.
derick moore sorry I'm not exactly an expert on this class. The way he described it reminded me of Kayne from league of legends. It's unfortunate that something like that has to be left to home brew games but I can see how it could really derail a campaign.
KodaPug yeah the problem is most people share his view based on the flavor text of warlocks. The thing is that was never the intent of the class. The first like 5 minutes of this video hit on exactly the opposite way to play them then is intended lol.
And yet if you have a group that aren't roll-players who need strict RAW interpretations it really doesn't matter. It's one thing if your players want a Heroic campaign but the Warlock almost implies some great feat has already been completed when it's interpreted this way. They're still level one but their concept almost implies greater than level 1. Most people are already injecting downsides and vulnerabilities into their characters anyway if they're the roleplaying types.
I have never played with a warlock that WASN'T a Tomelock whose Patron is an Eldritch Diety. Period. I think that Warlocks, however limited they seem, COULD be VERY fun and cool to play with or as... but SO MANY PLAYERS play the SAME Warlock, Over, and Over, and OVER again. Where's my Eladrin Who were taken under the wing (literally) of a Fairy Lord?
Warlocks are cookie-cutter. But only because the tabletop subculture has a HUUUUUGe boner for Lovecraftian lore, and upon seeing "the Great Old One" as a patron and realizing they COULD have Cthulhu give them their powers, They automatically go for that, instead of anything else.
It is unfortunate since tome/Elder warlocks work well gameplay wise but their fluff tends to be blandish. I tried to rock blades/elder(It was my first time making a warlock) but the setting up took a while to get used to. At least it lead to lovely situations where the party was pretty much dealing with Bloodborne related nonsense cause I exist and is the only thing anchoring the entity that is doing this without any one realizing, including myself. I still loved one friend's angsty teen fae/tome warlock who made a pact with their all powerful fae queen mommy who only performed the pact just so they are allowed to adventure without worrying their mom but they must visit their mom on occasion or else they have to end their adventure and the pact ends. Kinda makes me glad our group is okay with bull if it works well into the setting, as well as modifying rules to make our characters more effective gameplay wise.
I briefly ran a half-elf warlock with a fey pact who was basically just a gigantic weeaboo for everything related to the Feywild and full elves and eladrin and so forth.
They do that because it's the only class that can. It's not that Cthulu is the only source of power they think of, it's that they play Warlocks because they want to work with the Great Old Ones.
I once played an Old One warlock in a one shot who, rather than having a pact with an Old One, actually WAS an infant Elder God. Outward appearance was a halfling in an obscuring cloak (and mechanically was treated as a halfling) but was actually an eldritch mass of tentacles in vaguely halfling shape. It communicated solely with the Awakened Mind pact feature, speaking telepathically. Rather than earning new spells from a patron, it was awakening its own powers. Bizarrely the DM didn't realise what was going on until some time after the session. I'd like to explore that again some time.
Witches/Warlocks were actually introduced in 2nd ed in the Wizard handbook. I loved the flavor they added that the entity you made your pact with would/could periodically try to wrest control of your body from you. And the higher level aka the more powerful you became feeding off the powers you were granted by your patron the easier it was for them to take over.
what a stupid thing to say "played correctly" ask the player if the class is fun to play. Is the answer yes? That means the class is played "correctly". After all that is why we play a game isn't it? Why not say what you mean? Warlock players rarely commit to following through on the premise of their pact. There is an interesting conversation: Whose fault is that? Are DMs often too scared to push what is possible with that? Are players picking the class for permission to act in an evil way, not for the oblegation? Is the party often annoyed by one single player stealing everyones spotlight for their incredibly elaborate story? Did something inheritly go wrong in the classes concept?
I thought the title was a bit off too, a little too much "Your fun is wrong". But you raise an interesting point, why don't people commit to the premise? I feel like it could boil down to the fact that no other class comes with ramifications for your abilities, and a lot of DMs might shy away from punishing one player for not just picking wizard. Done right the Warlock is a backstory goldmine but maybe it can be a lot of extra work for a DM. Depends on the campaign.
i have experienced similar situations with clerics and paladins before, people that choose their god/oath just for stats and spell without roleplaying it, nothing wrong in the class concept imo
There's always that guy that has to run to everyone's defense "Stop telling people how to have fun!!" It's obvious that's not what he's fucking doing. Picking a Warlock, which is a class with its entire existence based around this premise of "the pact", and then completely ignoring the pact is really missing the point and concept of what a Warlock is supposed to be. Yeah no shit they can play it however they want because it's their game, but to ignore the pact really ignores the class itself.
How to remedy this should be up to the DM because obviously you can't literally force players to play a certain way. Perhaps if one is DM-ing for a party with a Warlock in it, and said Warlock is ignoring their pact, that Warlock should be contacted or punished by their patron for ignoring and disrespecting the source of their power and the greater goal for which they were given it. Plenty of players would call that a dick move or bad DM-ing, but if you want to ignore the core of the Warlock class, don't play a goddamn Warlock.
Yep you are absolutely right I am doing just that, literaly spelled it out, just like that exact position was spelled out in the title. Btw I do get that this is just for the clickbait title and the video has a more neuaunced position but I already said that in the original post and you didn't seem to pick up on that there so why not skip that part and have the more interesting discussion. To me the most obvious reason why players ignore their pact is is the fact that the handbook spells out that the overwhealming number of patrons has to be evil. I feel like players that play evil characters don't like the control over their action to be compromised. To me personaly there is a very specific ammount and kind of evil that I am cool with and if you have a party full of pesky rightous people with you you should always take that into account as well or you are putting a lawful good pally before the choice to either break character or break the campaign by declaring they won't keep adventuring with you. Can be a cool plotpoint but only in specific situations and it has a lot of player buy in. Not everyone likes inner party tension. Evidence for this is also Xanathars where they published loads of things that players asked for and warlocks got: A patron that is a good guy, as well as loads of ways to play a warlock that is in a pact they do not fully agree with right now. To me this is indicative that the audience wanted permission to act evil, not an obligation.
Have a nice day.
The classes in the Php are stat blocks. That is all they are at their core. The basis behind the stats and abilities are built upon RP fluff. The RP fluff exists as solid recommendations to inspire the players and DM, but I'm pretty sure even the books tell you to use your imagination.
A nutsy character could believe they're in a pact with a plushie they have, only to have all their manifesting powers unknowingly actually be from themselves. It's maybe not as initially deep as it could be, but stat block is adhered to, imagination is used, class is played 100% correctly.
The core is the stat block. The RP around it is fully intended for the DM and/or player to decide what they want it to mean, and how impactful they want it to even be.
I made a Warlock for fun. His name is Theros Terrifying, this is his backstory. He is a Hexblade Warlock btw.
Theros was abandoned as a child as soon as he was born because both of his parents was humans and he was a Tiefling. No one liked Theros because they thought he was a demon, so he left and ran around in the woods and only came back for food and sleep. One day Theros found a way into Shadowfell while wandering the woods, so he explored shadowfell. One day he encountered a strange being, a sentient sword that was able to speak. They managed to get along, the sword taught Theros how to read and write as well as give him the Tiefling name Theros as he human name doesn't quite cut it. He at that point also entered a pact where he will do whatever is asked for him in return for magical power and help, ofc he will not have to do things all the time just when the sword needs him to do things. Years later war was coming, Theros patron wanted him to join to do things for him, so he joined as a mercenary. While in the war Theros gained the reputation for being the terrifying as his use of Thaumaturgy made him very much like a demon during interrogations (if everyone thinks you are a demon no matter what why just not play the part as well?), so Theros picked that as a last name as he didn't have one.
So what do you think?
Cloud Seeker I would have it that terrifying was his title not a last name "Theros the Terrifying"
ultra ranger
It already is and no. If you go to page 43 in PHB you will see what type of names Tieflings have. They have a Infernal name (Theros) and a "Virtue" name which is Terrifying. Because he lives in a human dominated society he doesn't have a last name so he takes his nickname, his "title" and his "virtue" name as a last name. It actually make quite a lot of sense.
Cloud Seeker I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just mentioning my style, have fun 😁
Sorry but to me you are saying that it is bad and you are saying that Tieflings shouldn't have a "virtue" name on a character that is centered around having pride in seeing himself as a Tiefling and not a human. I don't really care what YOUR style is, you can create your own but do not comment on how other people should do stuff better according to YOU when YOU do not care you read for what type of names are appropriate for that race and culture.
Cloud Seeker I wasn't saying " it sucks you suck change it or your a dumbass" I was trying to say "that's interesting, I might have done stuff differently but yours is still cool" I'm sorry I didn't intend to insult you, but if your going to but a characters backstory up for people to see you shouldn't get so angry over people asking questions or bringing up how it would have been if they had come up with it
warlock with a beholder patron would be awesome. RP wise trying to keep the eye stalks hidden meanwhile the beholder keeps using them and looking around with the stalks to observe the world to better find perfection.
One thing they recently talked about with mike mearles i think his name is-was that the pact is instant and that magic is given and cannot be taken away. It makes it possible to play warlocks who oppose or are manipulated by their pacts, or even ones that get sold by their patron to another.