Autonomous Solar Powered Hydrofoil: Getting The Vessel Right
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 พ.ย. 2022
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The first video in the series can be found here: • Autonomous Solar Power... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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awesome success! \o/ For Sciiiiience! \o/
Every time you drop a video I question what I'm doing with my life. I can't believe the projects you manage to pull off on a monthly basis with a seemingly accessible workshop and resources. This is so cool dude!
Then I have succeeded in one of my goals for the channel!
@@thinkflight Making us feel inadequate? 😂😉 All kiddings aside, it's inspiring and educational. Great work.
@@francoisluneau More like getting people to question life choices if they could make something work that they truly love!
@@thinkflight legend doesnt stop on this ;)
The drag from the front 2 hydrofoils will put a torque on the servos, and cause them to pull some current just to hold the position while moving. Probably not much, but if you are aiming for efficiency (solar powered), then it may help to add a small spring there to help reduce the holding torque required.
Genius!
this is why i love this channel aha the collaboration from everyone is so awesome!
Alternatively, instead of a spring you could use a stepper motor and a worm wheel gear, which would completely nullify that force. But I agree a spring is easier ;)
@@pieterwasalreadytaken Yeah a worm gear is a good idea. You could even make a "worm gear servo" from the guts of a normal one, just strapping the feedback pot and electronics to a similarly sized wormgear based gearmotor.
@@roboman2444 Take the worm gear drive from a set of electric retracts.
i like how rectangular flat airboat becomes instant laptop desk when youre working on it
You blow me out of the water every time. I can’t believe that you implemented the actively stabilized this thing and made it all fit into an 11 minute video.
I’m super excited to see that you have a squarespace deal. Your channel is definitely work funding.
Nice, clean build! Always jealous of how quickly you churn out such high quality test platforms
Wow, this is high praise coming from the guy who built a flying inverted pendulum with his own custom flight controller code!
Hey I know this guy....
damn bro you're a chad. Got a wife, got a kid, got a sick ass hydrofoil powered by the sun.... that shit rocks, happy for you
Always a good day when y'all release a video. Keep up the first rate content, mate!
OMG! Such a cool hydrofoil! Glad you got away from those “NACRA” style hulls. “North American Catamaran Racing Association” came out with a catamaran in the early 80’s. They had square bows also.
I'm impressed: I know all the aspects that go into this. Kudos.
thanks for showing your technique on laying in carbon fiber into foam. I never would've thought of that.
You really should take a look at how moth class boats foil. The wand is an extremely rugged and simple system for stability in these boats. It allows for adjustable ride height while giving full mechanically passive stabilization, in addition the rudder is also used to control the aoa of the boat itself.
The way you set it up may be convenient to build but your main foil should not pivot above the water as that will introduce counter steering forces that likely contributed to the eventual failure of your foil.
I suspect this is also why your servos are acting up, you're literally riding on them. They're probably at current limit because of the holding force they need to apply.
In a moth you will sometimes see pivots on the rudder for pitch control, it should be noted that those aren't meant to be used all the time, you set your boat up by controlling the wand and its length. Pitch control is for trimming it out to perfection.
I'm not opposed to this explanation, it mirrors my thoughts which is why the optionally manned hydrofoil will have normal driven surfaces instead of the whole assembly moving.
Sweet video! Looking forward to seeing the manned version! Looks like a magic carpet ride!
I loved this video and you had such a giant leap forward with the hydrofoil design plus the rear hydrofoil steering system makes me want to try the same system. Please keep going.
Oh I am! Optionally manned build video coming soon....
Once again you’re making magic happen good job dude. I’ve been building an autonomous Catamaran and I would give my you know what to have a lake as smooth as yours to test things on
it's a good practice to place decoupling caps on your systems and even more important when you have navigation systems with sensors. Those brushless motors can generate noise and voltage drops even on 4S. You can have other little issues in wiring,crimping, etc.
Congratulations - another interesting video. The attraction for me is how you overcome the challenges of these projects - problem analysis and solution development.
Very cool project! I'm looking forward to seeing what you do next with this.
That last order of carbon has something to do with it
@@thinkflight Excellent! Let me know when you need more.
I love watching you doing your testing. Great to see the family coming along and (as a NZ'er from Taupo) what a beautiful testing environment. A really lovely lake (so long as you don't fall into it from a great height). WOW!!
fantastic build
I am becoming a huge fan of your videos featuring your your experimental flight experiments that inspire me down the same path. I also love your friend Dan's channel for the same reason.
Your every project is really well done . Good work Bro
Really nice experiment love your approach in working out the kinks. I just wait to see how adding the additional weight will work, probably you will need an elongated foil profile or a beefier profile to compensate for the weight added. I just wait for the next, btw adding servos... precious! ATB!
It'll just go a tad faster. So more fun actually!
This is amazing. You impress me so much
Love it. Hydrofoil + ground effect. Ingenious.
Not ground effect, just hydrofoil. It's nowhere near fast enough to take advantage of ground effect. If it had ground effect, then there's no point using hyrofoils as this is much more inefficient than ground effect on it's own. rctestflight's channel explains this on the last video.
@@hippopotamus86 - I realize my mistake:. I had assumed a reduction in mass had a corresponding reduction in velocity necessary to produce the effect - so long as the lift-to-weight ratio fell within certain limits.
Yeah I want to see more of this. Interesting project.
Mate you're an inspiration! Keep up the great work.
This is really cool! I love watching vids like these so interesting. Also for your car I think you should work on the front of the car for the aerodynamics some too! Love the vids!
I am working on a similar project, but in full scale. I love your design for the self stabilizing or surface piercing foils that you binned. I shouldn't have the blow over problem you encountered and the simplicity of the self stabilizing foils is better for reliability. My problem is deciding on a wing profile and was wondering if you could share the wing profile you used.
I get amazed by all the cool stuff people on YT makes.
That was pretty good. You can likely fix the blowing ESCs issue by moving the esc very close to the motor. You can make the craft much less sensitive to wind by making it longer and narrower and by ensuring that there is more area at the back, less at the front. I've been setting up to do something similar with ESP32-C3 controlled receiver and ESP32-S2 based transmitter. I have a couple of circuit boards working, I can read GPS, control servos, I have a couple of 2D joysticks and a couple of rotary encoders on the transmit end, all with click. Looks like I need to write my own driver for my 6DOF gyro-accelerometer I2C sensor though. It will potentially be a testing ground for the hydrofoils I Wingsurf on at the modelling stage too. I have most of my parts but haven't designed the hull and deck yet. I do have LIDAR plans too.
let's see a video, in detail. we're curious
From building drones and wings I know that the Capacitor on your ESC is going to absorb voltage spikes caused by motor braking when there are rapid changes when the PID loop is active. You can often hear it affecting your servos.
In general, it's pretty much always a good idea to have a cap on your ECSs
But why 4S? I've never even had to do this on 5S, only 6S and above.
@@thinkflight I use caps on nearly everything - even one of my 1S builds just to protect small ESCs. For purposes of a servo, I would think it's any voltage above 5v or 9v where you'd need a Cap. Granted they should be on the opposite side of a 5v/9v BEC and still being affected. May say more about the FC than anything else.
What electronics were you using?
@@thinkflight yeah, these issues can crop up with any voltage, if you're using a different flight controller, different servos, or a different ESC than normal then my guess would be that these have less built in filtering than what you typically use. If you're using an older battery then it's possible that it has an increased internal resistance that's causing voltage sag when the motor runs.
Other than that I'm not really sure why this build in particular would need additional capacitance, it doesn't seem like a particularly demanding setup in terms of power
not even mad at this buttery smooth ad transition
11:16 that dark wing is so gorgeous😍
I find the position of the power wires and motor in reference to the signal wires for the servos can cause interference, another way to reduce this noise is adding a circular magnet to the motor wires and power wires with one turn around it. Some larger esc's you find this will come stock like this. The added weight of the wooden prop may be driving the motor aswell causing feedback and interference
So smooth! Love it. Stoked to see you got that code working
So stoked there is a code that works!
Daniel - we need need more frequent videos from you as well! Especially RC ones 👌
That was a smooth add transition 😆 well done
lmao that transition to the sponsor part is gold :P
If you need a capacitor, I would use an oscilloscope and track the voltage drop when the motor starts under load. It may be dropping below some voltage that causes the BEC to not function properly. Track the voltage on the end of the BEC. It is likely the amp draw is so large the BEC is cutting out. Just my thoughts.
Awesome, and fun to watch!
Love the editing,
i would suggest looking at the design of foiling sailing dinghies such as the moth, which use a sort of “wand” touching the water under the bow, detecting height and adjusting the foils to be perfect, might not be the best solution here, but it’s an idea
I do like the phrase fully autonomous
I have built tandem electric skateboards and land yachts etc
trouble is I’m a blind person and as my wife gets older my gadgets frighten her hence steering becomes an issue
Cheers
My friend then the optionally manned autonomous hydrofoil is for you!
Agreed I’ll keep with the project updates
Since you like solar powered vehicles you might like to check out my solar hybrid foreperson recumbent can’t use TH-cam very well being blind so look up my name and perhaps hybrid solar cycle and you’ll find it plus others cheers
Looks awesome man
Great engineering on this latest hydrofoil pitcheron design. Like the design simplicity which keeps all moving parts are above the waterline. All those foiling iterations are now paying dividends.
Great audio comparison at 9:50 ... loud motorboat noises vs. mild propeller hum from the hydrofoil (no motor noise). It wasn't stated, but assuming 3.45A @ 16V would amount to 55 Watts of power to cruise at 27 mph?
💡🧐Efficiency has been achieved with this Autonomous Solar Pitcheron Hydrofoil. :)
The ESC being zapped is interesting, considering only needed to handle ~3.45A at cruise. Not knowing under what load conditions the demise is occurring, or at what current draw, I can only speculate. Might be related to a longer peak current as a water craft might take longer to get up to speed (?) vs. airborne craft, or related to the wiring (length between ESC and motor). If blackbox data was logged, it might hold a clue. An ESC with telemetry might be a good upgrade as prep for fully autonomous missions.
1:35 that looks like a really nice place to live! But the scenery at 8:12 is amazing too.
That looks like a pretty new baby! Congrats!
6 weeks!
THIS IS AWSOME
Hi there! Great video! I'd like to get into projects like these.
What Ardupilot hardware do you recommend?
Cool project. Countless hours no doubt.
The leading edge can be rounded above for lift but perhaps your sides should have sharo edged lift spolers like the aerobic to avoid being capsized by every side gust?
Ideas on capacitor fix.. Interference from cable routing or fluctuating current noise from too much current on small gauge wires or too small of a power supply. Any sudden large amp draws that could under volt them or PWM modulated components?
Great stuff!
saw that sponsor transition from a mile away and it still made me laugh.
That might be the best of em all i like it a lot
Subscribed, and eagerly watching. It's a bit of a dream (obsession) for me to build something like this here in the Philippines. Even to carry some cargo. would love to get in touch, and to support your work. Also, please do talk more about the arduino pilot vs raspberry pi. and the automation of those foils.
Great project. Would be loving it when the LiDAR code would be published👌🏻
I thought it would have been by now honestly
It trips me out how similar your voice is to Daniel's. Such a fun build.
Check out the Trifoil sailboat
You are the best. I would love to lern more about building such cool planes like you have?
Could you make a in deph video series?
Regards from
Switzerland
Love it! Kind of slow though, would be cool to optimise a hydrofoil for top speed. Haven't seen that on the RC scale yet
High speed hydrofoils don't work.
Can you build a Self stabyling foil like a sail moth or the sail waszp.
Maby it is more efficient.
There's second quite uncommon type of self-stabilizing hydrofoil - shallow submerged. It's like fully(deep) submerged horizontal wing but fixed and going very close to surface. As a wing dives deeper it's lift increases and vice versa.
That is true but according to a book I read recently, Hydrofoils by Ray Valinga, the difference in lift isn't enough on its own and some additional active stabilization is still required for stable "flight."
Also running a hydrofoil wing shallower than it's chord length causes wave drag and is less efficient.
But please, I've been very interested in hydrofoil designs and if you can show me one that uses such stabilization then I'd love to see or read about it!
@@Chris-oj7ro it's implemented on many soviet river hydrofoils, f.e. Meteor, Raketa, Voskhod. Search for pictures and you will clearly see underwater wing right below the surface of the water. And no active stabilization used since soviets were bad in electronics.
Picture of how this works
i1.wp.com/img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/94893/3267217.39/0_1015f6_b175388f_XXL.jpg
But not much written about it. Forgotten in history, scrapped for metal
nice project
Love the video But will it work with waves? I have an idea that could help If you like?
I wonder if it would be possible to simulate the fluid dynamics on the foil in Fusion360 or a similar tool.
There must be a better way to come up with an optimal solution than trial and error.
There appears to be considerable overlap between foiling and ground effect domains. Would lengthening/increasing the foil depth be a possible solution? Would the foil create too much drag for ground effect operation?
This looks really efficient.
I wonder how well this would work scaled up into a real hydrofoil.
they have solar hydrofoil single seat racers similar to this.
This is really terrific work!
Would you mind passing along the link to Nick Ream, please? I don't seem to find it.
Thank you!
Nicholas Rehm, that is the channel name.
You may have needed to add capacitors if your battery leads to the ESCs we're very long as this creates a lot of inductance and therefore voltage spikes
wouldn't it be wise have water propeller instead? Placed at the right height, the hydrofoil looses propulsion when being lifted out of the water? Thus slowing automatically down and preventing the flipping?
You should look at a Tri foil sailboat.
It is totally self stabilizing. It was the fastest sailboat in the world
Cool project. Re: LIDAR code. I would imagine the inputs that must be made to the servos controlling foil angles are quite subtle and precise and must be relatively fast. Did you have to do fine tuning of the code once testing began or is it straight from some special algorithm?
Arduplane is handling the stabilization, I did not change the stock settings, it was good enough as is.
Did you put the capacitor across the battery terminals, or across the 5v receiver power lines? I've used small ceramic and electrolytic capacitors across receiver power lines to fix weird servo issues before.
I put them across the battery insertion to the ESC. Interesting suggestion, I never considered that.
What's the efficiency difference between an air driven propeller and a submersed boat style propeller?
I would think a submersed boat style is more efficient. Is that something that could be viable?
Probably water propeller is more efficient, this just stays out of the weeds though.
What happens if you spray it with a super hydrophobic coating?
07:06 Capacitor on 4S battery? May I know the detail spec of the capacitor and the size/type of your motor Sir?
Wow where did you film this at, those locations are so beautiful!
Eastern Sierras in Cali
could you list the components you used in the description
Cap on esc's are for limit noise injection due to high current switching it's particulary important regardons rf signal like vidéo TX etc
it limit also power supply Peak and falls due to rapid change in global power demand
This Can induce changes on supply for imu (depending on supply regulators speed in fligh CTRL ) and mems are very sensibles to supply changes
What's the sweet spot for size? I image there comes a point where solar can't generate enough energy to move the thing.
Wow Thats Amazing. I have got to the Stage that I need to have a flight controller in my Hydrofoil. Having issues with the FC and the Lidar talking to each other. I am planning to run mine on Lipo battery's. Would like a follow up on the progress you have made.. Thanks.
This project is going places! Early next year probably.
U have to design the board … to be aero stability also … the windfoil boards could be good to look into… another thing to look into is the moth dinghy class.. these foiling boats have a sort of mechanical sensor which trims the foils.. …. Thirdly i think in America’s cup, the trim of the foils are trimmed by computers.
full size one maybe do ride hight .. go manual with a joy stick and push pull cables .. foot peddles for steering and a para motor polini may be as a start
Manual AND optionally stabilized. Servos all around
The pitch control of the 2 foils puts a constant strain on the servos. To couter this torque both servos will use electric power. This might be the reason for oscillations in the 5V circuit and the need for caps. Also servos will be wrecked with any minor crash. Better use a worm gear or a "screw and nut" design with no back-feed of torque. Or run the servos from a separete 5V buck converter..
I don't know, it was happening when sitting on the stand and no strain on the servos.
Hi congratulation for your great result. I m happy that you are using our arduplane platform can you share more about code revision and configuration? Are your starting point the work of rctestflight?
Thank you so much! I am quite certain Mr. Tridgell has access to the code, I assume you work as a developer?
It may be difficult for you to read this, I apologize - this is a Google translator. A great idea, but you need to familiarize yourself with the theory of calculating the shape and angle of the hydrofoil, this fundamentally affects the efficiency, with the correct shape of the wing, the water flow behind it should remain laminar and therefore there should be no beats like at this moment 00:58. I live on the Volga River, we have quite a lot of hydrofoils sailing here, and according to my observations, the center of gravity there is shifted to the rear. When the ship departs from the berth and picks up speed, first the nose of the ship stands on the wing, then, as it were, the transmission switches to an increased gear, and after that the stern of the ship stands on the wing. Consequently, the wings are at different heights, with different angles of attack and this is directly related to the weight distribution. In order to overcome the aerodynamic negative effects, the solar panels and the hull of the vessel should be made long and narrow, instead of short and wide, as it is now. Perhaps the area of solar panels should be divided along, and place these halves one after the other, and not on the sides.
information. 5:16 this vertically offset thrust configuration makes nose-down moment, ALL THE TIME. on the other hand, ideally, the thrust line should intersect the center of mass (c-m). and, the c-m should be located on the thrust line. inasmuch as a incorrectly located c-m is NOT an option, the use of a less-than ideal thrust line is sometimes necessary.
i have allways had a lot of faith in you ...... now after this vid .... i think i may have a bit too much . good work . mate . dont u just love those 2am brain farts ...
What is actually more efficient, water propeller or wind propeller for these hydrofoils? I know water propellers can get stuck in sea weed…
Water prop is probably more efficient, but yes, sea weed hence the air prop.
Love your videos man but a few layers of foam around your mic would make you a lot more pleasant to listen to!
what about wands that touch the water like the moth sail boats use to control ride height .. they have got that system down ... they been at it for years and they not too draggy
That is a legit way to do it for sure!
@@thinkflight even if the wands r only sensors e.i driving pots .. they jump up and down a lot .. and would need damping machanicaly or electronicaly .. i weld better than i spell
Where's that lake located??
longer leads particular to this build maybe why you needed the increased capacitance?
nothing longer than I've done before
is the bec on the esc powerful enough?
Separate 10 amp Castle BEC
any merit in having 1 foil in front 2 in back with all ur control functions on one foil in front. canard style ..steering.and . ride hight . ... its starting be like a foiling air boat
The merit is just whatever gets your weight and balance how you want it.
I need more insights and details!
How do I get information about ardupilot and the lidar stuff
Is that Paulina lake in Oregon?
Lake Mary in Mammoth CA
Sun Simulator provides the photons. You can clearly see the hexagonal shape of the Sun Simulator at 8.25
5:25 this is a WONKY servo configuration.!!! the use of the 'outer' hole on the servo arm gives a servo LESS mechanical advantage over the load. AND, the greater moment arm at the low side of a wing strut, does this TOO.!