Its Wrong To Pay For Sex Debate || Part VI
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ม.ค. 2025
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For: Melissa Farley
For: Catharine Mackinnon
For: Wendy Shalit
Against: Sydney Barrows
Against: Tyler Cowen
Against: Lionel Tiger
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I admire this woman so much.
This woman is brilliant.
Yep, it's 'you do what I say'. As long as there's money involved there is obviously an inherent power imbalance.
The strange thing is that it is a legitimate matter and businessmen cannot be held accountable for the source of their money, and they have support from the authorities. Human rights organizations for me. Women cannot stop a matter like this. Such decisions must be reviewed.
Do you know why so many thumb down this video?! Because those horny guys who desire to pay for sex feel intimidated by MacKinnon's most powerful argument!!! HHAHAHA LMAO!
Who cares who is better off ... what I care about is that we have societies that protect individual's rights and dignitiy. People that only care about their sexual satisfaction are like drug addicts, and they want respect for their conditioin born on the backs of vulnerable powerless people, and use the market paradigm to justify it.
Making sex work illegal puts sex work into the hands of criminals through the power of the state to punish those who participate in it. Making it legal and removing the social stigma would result in fewer women/children being coerced into sex work because the sex worker now controls the very resource that makes money, their physical body as sex.The state creates the dangers of market place by making the demand for the product or service illegal.Thousands have served prison time for possession of marijuana at a huge monetary and social cost to the public. All this for nothing as the state now changes their policies. All this waste and terrible social cost could have been avoided by making it legal and using the taxes made off of the sale to reduce the social consequences of addiction.Make sex work legal and tax and regulate it to protect the health/safety of the public and the sex worker. Remove the criminal from the equation and this becomes the first step toward protecting those being exploited. The criminal and the criminalization are one and the same thing. Remove the advantages to the criminal that the state creates by making it illegal.The state consistently harms society through the laws it creates in the name of protecting society.
These comments are disgusting
she is awesome!!! I like her!!
Also, ronald, are you suggesting thay a man buying a woman dinner implies her consent for sex? Your leaps in to absurdity are out of this world. You seem to have a sense that men are entitled to this kind of arrangement in order to get sex. I've never had sex with a man in exchange for a date. Jesus.
Its a shame men simply don't just stop going on dates, turn around when a woman say's 'fancy a drink friday' they go 'no your ok, i've got better things to do'
That way the feminist agenda will come to fruition and it'll be proved to be bullshit.
notice she said that most of what she knows comes from the people she works with, the only kind of prostitutes that are working with social workers are the abused and the victims. So her entire viewpoint is skewed.
This is of course not to mention the continued strawman from the women.
shut up
That's right Daniel, instead let's listen to and cater to the selfish men who demand a class of women to pay for the "right" to rape them and do whatever their porn-sick minds dream of doing to these women. The exchange of money doesn't magically make rape not rape, hence it's not a true choice. No go @ the red herring of abortion, let's stick to the issue at hand, which is prostitution, i.e. the commercial rape industry, not abortion.
Any job is the same, would you go and sweep a road or clean a toilet if you weren’t being paid. People do lots of work they hate, for money. Everyone needs money, I’ve had shit jobs I hated, but no one made videos about rescuing me from waitressing and cleaning.
women who respect herself would rather clean toilets then selling her body. prostitution in not a job, it's an exploitation. The thing is that...Sex is not for sale and shouldn't be for sale. Sex brings life and Sex slavery Ruins life.
@@Draphonic13 haha woman who respect herself ... 😃😃😃 will not clean toilets or this is what respect she deserve??
prostitution is going to be around regardless of whether or not it's legal. trying to outlaw prostitution is like trying to outlaw alcohol, criminals will capitalize off of any illegal method to attaining pleasure.
+partisan49 your argument has been debunked again and again. read up and school yourself son.
provide a rebuttal instead of "school yourself hurrdurr"
+partisan49 No thanks, I will not be tasked with educating you. Do the work yourself.
lol cant even defend your own opinion, eh?
+partisan49 It's not an opinion. It's a fact that your argument has been debunked - it's quite easy to find out why governments don't even consider it anymore. You have the internet. This isn't something I can put into a few comment-sized sentences for you - which is why you should read it yourself. Don't be lazy and stop resorting to ad hominems, it exposes a lack of intellectual integrity and a blind bias. If you want people to take you original "opinion" seriously, then at least act like you have an objective stance.
She is only bringing up victims of trafficking number... she is not bringing up numbers of people that want to be in the industry, she is only representing the numbers of people that want to get out...
The majority of women that were trafficked in prostitution were brought in as children, What would her number look like if she interviewed Escort Agency Models (don't kid yourself, these ladies have sex too) and or the Brothel Ladies of Nevada?
do drug dealers dream of being drug dealers when they are kids...
Do waitresses dream of being waitresses, do road sweepers dream of being a road sweeper, and so on. Can say that about any menial job. No one rescues them
Lupa they aren’t getting naked and having their bodies sexually abused.
Its not really about things like STDs, Drugs etc, or any of the reasons I've heard so far.Instead, it Is the rampant religious conservative and feminist values prevelent in American society that are driving this. THAT's ALL - nothing elae!!!
+737 the STD issue is a huge danger factor in why prostitution shouldn't exist. read up on what a prostitute has to do if a condom broke/slipped off during intercourse - it is there in the Occupational and Health Hazard regulations in countries that legalize it, it explains the steps she needs to take. it is fucked up because it shows just how difficult it is for a prostitute to prevent an infection.
America is clustered with industries that carry risks far more enormous than STDs.Reflect on the extensive risks and tragedies associated with aviation, medicine, the drug/pharmacutical and sky scrapers (recall 9/11); yet, all of these continue to thrive big in the U.S. How is this?
I believe that the way real Americans approach risky industries is to regulate them to minimize risks. For example, regulatory agencies such as the FAA, NTSB and the FDA set legal guidelines, perform inspections, and penalize violators to minimize risks. We don't simply destroy industries.
+737 I understand, but that is a specious argument through and through. Please consider the following:
a) STDs are contagious. Injuries associated with high risk careers like aviation or construction are limited to the individual whilst an STD can spread to partners and newborn children if not render the woman infertile. One ought to be farsighted in regards to the consequences - society's and the woman's. A prostitute infected with an STD also puts her punters at risk, especially as some STDs tend to be asymptomatic, causing carriers to spread the virus unbeknownst to them and their partners.
b) The risk of disease/infection exposure associated with medicine/drug/pharmaceutical industries are dramatically low in comparison to a prostitute. Medicine/drug/pharma "occupations and hazard" risks are professionally and effectively controlled for - the environment of a laboratory or a doctor's clinic are designed to minimize risk and, most importantly, they are not within intimate contact with their subjects or substances (whether samples, chemicals, etc) the way a prostitute must be. Pharmaceutical employees are also protected with goggles, gloves and face masks in regards to exposure risks, etc - all to the point that if they ended up infected or harmed, it would be down to the employee's training and lack of adherence to the rules. A prostitute cannot have the luxury of such protection, she can be as careful as possible and still get infected. Condoms are ineffective against skin viruses like HPV, for example, as they can transmit via skin-to-skin friction. Please think this through.
c) Regulation of prostitution has failed very loudly around the globe. Reflect on Germany and their consequences. Australia has 4 illegal brothels to every legal brothel in Sydney, another example. These countries have tried and the experiment has failed. Also never forget that, no matter how heavily regulated a prostitute's job is, she is still under high STD risk - regardless of whether she strictly adheres to the rules and regulations.
Sorry for the delay,
a) STDs are contagious. You're right, but that's not my argument; infact, that re- enforces the need for legalization and regulation. Both Prostitutes and STDs will continue to exist, weather underground or above. The main choices are 1) were going to make it very hard for these workers to combat the hazards of their jobs, or 2) we will provide a society committed to ensuring their welfare.
b) You say: "The risk of disease/infection exposure associated with medicine/drug/pharmaceutical industries are dramatically low in comparison to a prostitute." - My question to you is "why do you think that is so?" Ever heard the term "regulation"? If there is one thing America has learned throughout its history, it would be that groups of authorities, associations, committed to inspecting, regulating, educating research (... and not research done by heavily polarized religious conservative, law enforcement or feminist/ women's groups) is the true way to protect industries, not eradicating them. That is a very hostile position to take.
c) Regulation of prostitution has failed very loudly around the globe. Presuming you may be American, I encourage you not to forget the flourishing industry in your home town " Navada, USA".
"Hand Banana", certain countries, particularly America " CAN" largely work around the STD problem! The catch is this... "IF THEY REALLY WANT TO!" I'm not convinced that much of society really want to. Much of our society consist of a hostile, and highly judgemental religious- conservative and feminist culture. Both the religious- consrtvative and feminist culture in the U.S are very anti sexual, influencial and very dominant. They fight against almost any act of sexual freedom and liberty.
One side of America, sees all women as eternal victims. The other side sees prostitution as a violation of biblical law, and therefore a wrong. Our hatred for prostitution has little to do with the research, it is predominantly social and emotional.
"To escape marriage there is a process called divorce..." - unless you are male in which case the effect (cost) of the marriage never ends even when the marriage is over.
The difference between marriage and prostitution is just the length of the transaction.
Zippy_UK ridiculous you marry for love and family. If it doesn’t work out you leave.
ah yes poor men who divorce women. whatever will they do.they only have most of the money in society and could legally r*pe their wives until the 90s (still can in some states).
@@aliceinwonder8978 Feminism has given you choices - you can get a career, or a zero hours contract, or serveral zero hours contracts. You can start a multi-billion dollar global corporation or get an OnlyFans account. You do you, boo.
I fully support feminism in giving you these chioces - just as I support mens right to critique, deconstruct and judge any LTR, especially marriage as a crap deal and avoid it like the plague.
Remember, her body her choice, her responsibility, not his problem - 100% no ifs or buts.
why cant people do what they want to their own bodies
You don’t pay for sex, you pay for them to leave. Kinda like a quicker version of divorce.
Infantile comment. 1. What you dreamed of being as a child has nothing to do with your desires as an adult. If a women wants to sell her body, that is her right. It is her choice and if it empowers her...more power to her. 2. I wouldn't mind if I daughter wanted to sell her body. If that was what she wanted to do then would stand behind her. It is her right and her decision.
Nobody sell any body. Escorts sell services not bodies.
@Helios910 Don't you get it, paying for something is the same as just taking it. No, I'm not at all serious
You are misquoting me. I don't believe any of those things. I am capable of abstract thinking. What I believe I posted, you have nothing to say on the subject because it is true, so you misquote me in order to discredit me. Is this really the best you can do? I don't hate women. I'm not a mysogynist at all. I can just see human nature for what it is.
none of her arguments is targeted against prostitution in itself. All she says is some prostitution harm woman and they are wrong. Nice job girl
Nobody have the right to tell me what is good or bad for me. My body my choice . I dobt feel harmed and I dobt need anybody to tell.me how I feel because I know very well how I feel. Perfect!
@karlsmith00 Do you own a pair of Garfield slippers? How many articles of clothing do you own with Winnie the Pooh characters on them?
@jbond5150 good point, yeah the same could be said for reform. my anti-prostitution view is in light of the groups of women who are directly or indirectly forced into this work due to lack of other options as i think sex work is not an option in such a scenario, but for the women (& men & trans people) who enjoy sex work and/or feel it's empowering and so on, then more power to them & sure reform would benefit this group.
Good God...I can't belive this diatribe. "wrong to pay for sex"? As a single male, with no children, i'll keep that in mind when I get the property tax bill for the sex tophies for those who "chose". That isn't equal.
@ZioZambe I'm noticing more and more...
Cant help but notice that all of her arguments can be made for a person working at Mcdonalds. I get the feeling that she should not argue about prostitution, she should argue about the morals about capitalism and the monetary system and such.
no, it can't. people in mcdonalds don't get sexually assaulted, harassed, beat and trafficked regularly while their degradation is masturbated to by men every single day
I dreaded having to read an article from her about pornography in my ethics textbook. Her arguments are SO loose and broad. She can't elaborate on anything she says. If you read her article "Pornography, civil rights, and speech"; you will see exactly what I mean. She reiterates the same exact point in every single paragraph. "Porn encourages male dominance". I would have to answer questions in the textbook about why she is saying what she is saying, but it's difficult to even explain her point for her. It's a victimization.
If you go on any pornsite and watch any video there; you will see exactly what she means.
These are facts: the submission of women is systematically represented and performed there.
If you want to elaborate, think about gaping, gang bang and golden-shower.
It sounds like you are using a secondary source. Use the primary source.
I think it's funny that she suggests highly criminalizing the pimp and the john while letting the prostitute go scott free, and then follows with a rant about "real equality"... uhm... why exactly could you not simply offer them "real education, real jobs, real money, real equality." and then this perceived desparate need to enter prostitution should magically vanish? Or is it necessary to take away their livelyhood before you offer them "real alternatives" ?
"You can't BUY the real thing (sex)." Speaking as a heterosexual male who is quite familiar with female hypergamy, I can definitely state that you can ONLY buy the real thing. For males, you date and marry the best female you can afford to pay for.
I would love to see this women in a debate forum instead of just preaching to feminists groups that already agree with her. These ideas would never stand up to scrutiny against anybody with a similar academic background who has a rational understanding of sex, sex work, the relationship between men and women, how they're similar and how they're different, and what freedom of choice(for women and men) really means. The amount of times that I have seen this women flip flop between insisting that women are equal and do not need help from men and saying that men are responsible for all the problems women had and that men need to fix the problems just baffles me. This isn't to say that men have never oppressed women historically or that women have never been mistreated while prostituting themselves but neither of those unfortunate realities make her ideas rational and valid.
ok. she gave good arguments. probably the only good arguments for her side so far. but never the less she fell into the same children rape hole"pun not intended" that the others did. if prostitution was legal that would mean that laws would be made for further safety of the seller. the bunny ranch in nevada has cameras, a panic button, etc etc that allows safety for the women. that being said her arguments can be the same as to why the catholic church is wrong. "children get raped"
What does this have to do with what he just wrote.... UHH NOTHING. You have not deconstructed anything he said. In my own experience every woman I have ever been with has expressed that they had a fantasy of being raped. It is a common fantasy why I don't know. I'm sure your explanation will be something to the effect of women being victims or something or you'll simply reply with some type of shaming statement because you can't deconstruct what you have read.
It has been a while since I had read something so ugly.
"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." - Catherine MacKinnon
No, this is false. The quote was misattributed to her. Go look it up on Snopes if you don't believe me.
Marriage is the foundation of a healthy society.
This talk by Catherine MacKinnon is so incredibly offensive to men.
@karlsmith00 So how many men turned you down before you became a lesbian?
Of the dozen or so of sex-workers I've known, NONE of them were trafficked, pimped, or enslaved. Thus, to me this lady's claims ring untrue.
To the extent that women ARE sex-trafficed, pimped, and forced to be sex-slaves, then yes, I agree that's criminal and needs to be outlawed.
But it's important to make a distinction between women making their living through sex-work, doing so by choice, versus those being forced into it. To pretend the latter group is the vast majority is not backed up by the facts, according to my observations.
Moreover, the notion that a woman by definition can not freely choose sex-work is dubious. We all have to work at something in order to live. The bloke who works fifty hours a week at the office in a cubicle is no less a slave than the sex-worker, and yet sex-workers are perceived as "needing to be rescued." The reality is that neither is a slave, apart from the human necessity to earn a living.
Prostitution hysteria is all due to a hyper-moralistic, anti-sex, fear-of-sex, fundamentalism which is strongly entrenched in society's collective psyche.
For every former sex-worker claiming she was victimized there will be a sex-worker crying ''go away and quit trying to rescue people who don't see themselves as victims, but rather are self-employed people choosing a particular way of earning a living.''
in other words, find another do-good cause, and leave prostitution alone. But yes, outlaw and arrest jerks who enslave and pimp girls and women. There's a universe of difference between the two phenomena.
That's the truth of it. Try to rise above the propaganda and ideology.
Along the lines of 4:00, I'm exploiting my inequality with the cashier at the supermarket every time I buy anything...
let me ask u if ur male friends would sell their body even to male (gay)customer? most ppl think that a male prostitute sell their body only to female customers. i believe most prostitutes male or female cant really pick their customer....i think the over all answer is to join the Army... they take anyone that can move lol
what does this have to do with anything? I get it, someone abused you, but it wasn't because you were a woman, its because you have a poor temperament.
women aren't discriminated against. there is no evidence for this.
OH PLEASE - I am for (EQUAL RIGHTS IF THEY ARE EQUAL)!!! You want to know what’s wrong with the youth today. It's because of the modern Laws and Feminism is constantly feeding Equality that favors the females just the one-sided rules against the male. Come-on who’s going to admit that without being called a racist or a sexist? Some female will call me that, I’m sure? If you don’t believe me now in 2018 the laws fevers The Female in America? Just get a divorce, go to work and in time you will be accused of sexual harassment if the lady doesn’t like you or why not just say, “give females a long prison sentences for making false statements on rape allegations and sexual harassment claims", at work or at a large crowd of people? Let’s see what will happen, then? Really blaming porn? Video games and the internet instead of legitimately looking into the real issues of Feminism, Socialism or Liberalism? The problem with the younger generation today about obesity is because the parents are too lazy to make dinner. Children go to fast food places because they want things handed to them with as little work. No-one wants to get off their lazy asses to do anything around our country? This younger generation today expect everything to be handed to them, that's why Bernie sanders almost won the 2016 election.
The entire argument is stupid. Why no one looks at men's side?