I think your balance changes are spot on. Great ideas!! Especially the starting at 20% health. That would really slow things down and be more true to the aesthetics.
Something most people keep missing in all these Horror-film inspired games is that you cannot expect the fear to last forever. The nature of fear in gaming is destined to incur diminishing returns, no matter how the game is structured. (PVP or PVE) This is due to human nature and learning. People innately have some degree of fear for the unknown. Common examples: Learning how to ride a bike or swimming; initially, the awkwardness of lacking muscle memory for the task and subsequent injury and/or embarrassment dupes people into assuming highly unrealistic notions of what they are actually capable of, and thus, they don't perform at even a basic level of competency. But with time exposure and effort, they overcome these things. (with the occasional exception) Even in highly lethal games where the margin of error is quite small, continued exposure via attempts gives way to the apathy of the mundane. Then, it becomes routine. Over time, as you grasp what you are truly capable of this inevitably leads towards more brazen behavior and experimentation. In TCM, consider the evolution of the average player. On launch, I remember seeing Victims who would just hide in the basement forever, hoping someone else would figure things out as they were picked off one by one. They would seize up and stop every time they saw the a killer's "terror radius" aura or when Grandpa started yelling. But just a few days after launch, these same players all but vanished; most were stopping to deny Family a strategic advantage via their detection instead of out of panic. Today, we have Victim rushers who know exactly when they have play quietly and when not to waste time. Their characters are specially built to minimize the risks of their tasks and know the maps inside-and-out. All that change occurred in just a few weeks. And I predicted all of that happening, because it has happened in literally every single other game that advertises itself as scary. Phasmophobia and that genre personifies this process arguably more than any other. In brief, it's a game where you and (up to) a few others enter a location to locate a ghost, identify it, and leave. The ghost unbeatable; you cannot "kill" it. Most of the time, you cannot see it. Over time, it will get mad enough to start hunting, where if it catches you, you die. When the first debuted back in late 2020, I was actually, genuinely scared in a game for the first time in well over a decade because it did things all the other "scary" games rarely do right: No soundtrack, plenty of false positives in the environment, slow movement and actually pretty solid environmental ambience. But as time went on, I learned that all but one ghost simply could not catch me during hunts as their movement speed was equal to mine. Locating the ghost early became much easier upon realizing that the spooky environments were completely harmless, and only a tiny handful of ghosts deviate from standard behavior sufficiently differently that they posed any threat of catching me off-guard. (among the originals, it was the early hunters and super-roamers like the Demon, Mare, Jinn and Banshee) In time, like so many others, i became too accustomed to the game and it became routine. It's a game best reserved for small doses and still an excellent game for occasional fun, but it will never be as scary to me as it was when I first started solely because the thing that made it scary was my own ignorance of how things worked and what I could do.
Everyone avoiding using Leather Face, of all people, tells us he isnt intimidating enough. I get stuck with him often because the majority will leave the lobby before using him. I dont mind him at all but it gets annoying not being able to switch characters because I'm a team player and will use him repeatedly before leaving a lobby. He definitely needs an overhaul. Those bone scraps, shoulder bumps and door slams should have little to no effect. Bad enough victims can escape through cracks and crawl spaces, Leather Face advantage should be H2H combat. No one should be seeking out contact with Bubba
Yeah IKR, victims got a lot of safety in the basement with a ton of infinites as is and confident Leland's/Ana's will seek out LF's to bully them, even doing stuns on him while he's in the cutscene and unable to react. Shows that there is no real fear of him and also why very few people want to play him.
At the very least Bubba's stuns n such should be half the recovery time as other family members. And tbh I always get the most points playing as him and he's fun, so I don't understand the aversion aside from the team player aspect and one needs variety and would like to play other people.
Alternatively, maybe instead of starting with 20% health as a victim it might be interesting to see starting health be linked to how you escape your restraints. Yes you can escape quickly, but doing so lowers your health. Still narratively realistic without leading to a one hit kill scenario
I thought the same thing. It would make so much sense. Victims starts with some wounds and limb whole game, so why they are full health?? And Lealands woulnd't be so cocky.
"without leading to a one hit kill scenario" Bubba can oneshot any full hp survivor if they don't bring "no sell" perk, except for Anna and Leland (if he can time his stun ability)
@@nicolaselev2211 I'm talking more in regards to a Johnny or Sissy who rushes to basement. I can't imagine anyone would be happy getting one shot by one of the weaker characters
Maybe the game is less scary, but it's still got that "oh my I could die at any minute!" Intense feeling when one of the family gets too clse or I get the yellow border/sound warning they are close by. Still as fun as day 1!
AS someone who mained family and quit earlier this week this video speaks to me. Last weekend started loosing game after game with hitchhiker/leatherface. Realized there is this whole meta in the game (rush meta, bug exploits etc.) Finally go to reddit to see about the game for the first time. Realize the reddit is littered with victims. Made a post about how the game is completely victim sided. Downvoted to hell. Was told it was because I'm new to the game and need to "git good". Proceed to play Victim for the first time right after. Lost the first match. Won the second. Lost the third. Then escaped 15 times in a row. The only thing on that reddit is that Sissy needs to be nerfed and how the family house map is too difficult for victims. Like wtf? Its a game with victims AND family. Why not just replace all of the family with the teletubbies? Tinkie winkie, dipsy? I KNOW you can win with family if you communicate really well and know the maps like a god. But you DONT need to do that as a victim and that makes the game completely skewed in one direction. It was a cool game initially, I genuinely loved the vibe of the game. But as you progress and learn the meta, the charming effect of the game is completely gone. Its really sad because as much as the dev's are "fixing" the game, theyre really not. Definitely not fixing the game if you're a family main.
Yeah honestly the most intense games are when you are last victim and that tense music starts to play imo is the cherry on top it really makes you feel terrified for your life😅
Excellent analysis. Props for giving sources. I also feel that this game, although great, needs some changes. It's strange that game by design (at least in theory) encourages you to stay silent, but the meta is to rush searching for items. I agree with everything you said about Letherface. I know it's funny, but how can you toss a giant like a ragdoll, just because you closed a light wooden door on him??
I agree with doors breaking if they stun LF. That makes sense to me. I think bone scrap piles and tool boxes should have a "cooldown" like the battery or the generator do too. If someone has looted something you have to move into new areas to search.
I've been suggesting that they remove the vaults from the basement as the current speed meta makes rushing around extremely valuable compared to stealth and with how much extra time it takes to remove the vaults. The ones upstairs are fine. But there are more than enough cracks and crawl spaces already that they dont need vaults as well.
as a victim main, I definitely agree. They have a chance of saving you, but also hold you back from getting where you want to go as quickly. Also there are a TON of them, for what lol
Adding more uncertainty and fear would definably make the same more entertaining and scary to watch on stream!!! (as someone who doesn't play more intense horror games but watches them) Very well put together and I really like the gamer psychology!
Like how in F13 Jason eventually became enraged or whatever. He could just barge through doors, immediately breaking them, and could not be stunned as easily. As someone who usually plays Leatherface just because I have to... I wouldn't mind these changes, but my main issue is with the chainsaw noise. It should be dampened for Leatherface. He is around it so much, and how most of us rev the chainsaw and run around, I get headaches after playing him too much. This is the main reason I have to stop playing him. Not because I'm mad at Lelands or Anas... not because the waking grandpa cutscene overheats my chainsaw 9/10 times... not because people gang up on me or slam doors in my face... but because the sound is just unbearable after a handful of matches. Dampen the sound or greatly extend his family sense for longer breaks from the noise.
I really like the idea of Bubba having stun resistance build up over the course of the game. If they want to be aggressive early game, then escaping later could be really hard since they can't stop Bubba from running them down.
Really great video, I’ll definitely be checking out a couple of the references to learn more about fear in video games as an avid scaredy cat and horror game enjoyer. There is a distinct lack of balloons though
It happens to majority of the game once the survivor know how to exploit and abuse game mechanic and they will rush at your face kiting you all around until developer decide on the fear factor balancing
@@BabysitterSky Yes, I remember the first time going to Halloween Horror Nights at Universal Orlando and how it was unlike any other Halloween event I had been to. All the scare actors have triggers to activate loud speakers and lights vs a teenager screaming at you. After a few years of going it takes a real jump scare to even get me to slightly react. Granted I still love going but there is never like that first time.
they could add more punishment to waking grandpa up such as 30 seconds of wall hacks on the player who made the most noise and maybe adding 50 % damage boost on that player and maybe even a free level 1 upgrade to grandpa.
I think the other family members should start out closer to the central area where the basement doors are, so if the victims rush to get out the family can be there to stop them. Otherwise they’re out and working on things before the family can even get there. Or maybe let family pick their starting point. But as of now they just start too far away. I like the idea of stun resistance building up for Leatherface. In the Friday the 13th game, Jason used to get bullied like crazy, until the patch that made him unable to be stunned after he enters rage. It helped a lot to make him intimidating again
I think we can pair the low health (maybe 50%) with the abilities starting on cooldown. The most annoying part of the doors is the possible infinite stunt lock, like what's up with that? Any other game would PUSH YOU AWAY from the source but this one rarely does it. As part of social aspect of the game, maybe add some sort of "Trust factor" like CSGO, where cheaters or ragging players get paired with each other while more social or better behaved players get paired. Knowing the lobby issue you would still get sore players but would be helpful to separate them if a little, considering the developers want this to be a party game. To help this system maybe consider when you heal other players or they use the paths you open (more while running from a killer or after a survivor). Regarding player rating, I think Overwatch 1 was self sufficient with player feedback after matches, maybe something like that could help. Currently it's hard to enjoy wining (or losing) when people are try-harding the game. It's a tad eye rolling seeing people treating this ASYMETRICAL game like if it was a competitive one (I've seen the survivors getting floored just for the single survivor to brag about it), I've seen less try-hards on Halo than on this game and that says something.
IDK why people come into these assymetrical party games treating them like competitive games even though the devs outright state that they want a casual, simulation experience. It's almost like they're insulting the devs by playing them like this. I've also noticed a scary amount of competitive, salty players.
The update broke the game for me and my brother. My brother was being chased amd hit going down the well rose from the well laying down and was on the ground right in front of the family next thing you know hes up and runing in the air now and is able to sit on top of the building outside
I think that all of these are brilliant ideas, I just think Johnny should also have some form of grapple resistance and make it very risky to grapple Johnny. As a bonus he should be able to booby-trap wells and windows, where the trap would stop the victims halfway down the well forcing them to climb out slowly and it would make a lot of noise. The windows will add bleed. The potential for Johnny in TCM is IMMENSE....
Because of how few health items there are they might need to add more to compensate for starting in a lower health state. Whenever I solo queue I have teammates rushing and grandpa is awake before the family cutscene is finished. Then the family rushes the basement and we are stuck in a death trap because no one had time to get unlock tools or open a basement door. I don't want the games to drag on forever either but them ending within 3 minutes certainly isn't fun.
Yeah I totally understand, I really would like to reduce the early game rush META, I would see no issue with more health items being in the basement to compensate for a lower starting health though! I think that'd be a fair trade off!
Something that almost every asymmetrical game doesnt get is the 'main bad guy', the only games that got that right was Evolve and Friday the 13th, in Evolve when the monster reached level 3 it felt good, it felt like: now the shit just got real and almost certain death was coming to the hunters. Friday the 13th got that right too, Jason was a menace, you could insta kill anyone if you grabbed them, that felt good because as soon a got tired of playing around i just started wiping the whole game. TCM should have made the leatherface the scariest of them all, the MAIN villain should be the most dangerous threat and the most powerful, but leatherface cant pull people from crawl space and etc... leatherface has to politely await someone finish their s so it can start doing damage again, this takes all the 'i am the danger' of the character. Its very funny because In TCM the Family are the ones that are doing their best so survivors just dont wipe the match.
Did not feel good dying to a TP blink grab from Jason lmao. Ofc it felt good to do, but there needs to b something called balance, n the survivor end of that? Yeah nah
in the movies, many of the family members are more sadistic and evil natured than leatherface, he is emotionally vulnerable and while he is the poster child of the entire franchise, i feel like there are other characters who should feel more threatening
@@calebstevens9446 but thats where the fun begins to me, survivors had to really be good at the game a play together to be easier for them to escape, the Big dudes protected the smaller ones while they did the objectives, rushing solo was not viable. the thing is that survivors are too pampered these days with 'fair game for all', when you enable survivors to survive the killer in a 1v1 sittuation then they get too strong and the 1v4 becomes even more unfair for the killer, thus Dead by Daylight is born.
@@joelmcknight9995 yeah, that is kinda nuts considering how many escape options survivors have, its considered a loss if one escape but what i consider a win is farming as many points as i can, progressing my account is more important than what the game consider a win, and the progression system is slow enough to only about kills. After i stopped caring for what the game considers a win, my games became much more fun, putting your win condition onto other people being killed exclusively can lead to some really stressful matches. Leatherface can break doors, crawl spaces and vaults there is ton of these in a match so i try to break everything i can, that is a good amount of xp and because of that victims doesnt have much space to run and protect themsdelves with doors and such so we endup sometimes killer all of them.
Any game will always come down to winning or losing. And even so being emmersed in the TCM universe pushes you toward escaping at the soonest possible point without being detected at all which ends up at the same outcome
I think you nailed it with Leatherface give him an a agitation level as the match goes on or as he attacks or is attacked and maybe when he stalls out missing a strike. maybe add the ability to destroy all crawl spaces forcing the survivor to keep moving and not try to loop. Make him something to be avoided and ran from. The other killers outside Sissy's current issues are balanced for the most part. Maybe add something more to make up for cooks slow speed. I think also survivors should take minor damage when doing anything not sneaking. It's made it clear they are bleeding out they should feel a stronger sense of urgency and risk vs reward. Though I do think they all family need to do a bit more damage as it caused a problem with grandpa. I noticed family have started feeding grandpa less and less either because it interferes with their build which requires a full blood flask or because one of the survivors will just stab grandpa undoing a few minutes worth of work that they don't have time bothering to charge grandpa up again. So I think Grandpa needs to be buffed first that if grandpa does get stabbed it takes let's say 50 blood to level him back up instead of 100. Second that maybe at level 3 or 5 Grandpa is strong enough to use that hammer to defend himself. Not doing a lot of damage but maybe giving the attacker the concussion effect and a bloodtrail that makes getting away from grandpa after more difficult. Outside that I think that the fuse and water exits need to be looked at. That once used a family can destroy the fuse and reset the box so it can't be resused easily. Similar for the water being able to close it as fast a Victim can open it but allow it to build pressure a little faster in exchange but once shut off the kill breaks the valve forcing victims to find another to reuse.
I think the next best thing to do is to make all exits require equal amount of effort and/or risk. The 2 big ones would be the gas station exit and the slaughter house steam exit.
Maybe… 1.) if players escape too quickly Grandpa starts at a higher level, or give another objective to complete in the basement before opening the doors, one each player has to complete separately to lower the level grandpa is once the doors are unlocked. If no players complete the objective grandpa is at level 4, so on. 2.) get rid of vault crates in the basement, or have less of them. If the meta is to rush then let leather face rush them too. Generally I’d say don’t buff or nerf characters, characters aren’t the problem, force the victims to work together, force the family to work together. I’ve played matches where as a victim just as I escape the basement someone has already escaped the family. That’s because I suck (lol) and one person, by themselves was able to get through every obstacle way too quickly and the only “teamwork” was the family chasing other players instead of that one. With all that said, they’re slowly rolling out little changes instead of jumping the gun and handing out huge buffs and nerfs and massive gameplay changes (looking at you Evil Dead) that ultimately will make the game impossible to balance.
As Johnny on the family house map, I had a Connie who already was out of the basement and unlocking one of the front doors before I could even get into the house from my spawnpoint. There has to be some form of negative impact from rushing imo
That's a great point you make and exactly the reason I bought the game in the first place. It was very hard to get into the game because I went in with fear and played very carefully while others didn't and that plus my lack of understanding of it's mechanics got me killed very fast and very often which is very frustrating. Now that I have a better grasp at it's inner workings and meta the game is much less scary but it's also much less fun. I agree with your suggestions and from the start thought TCM should have a much slower pacing. I hope the devs see it the same way and work to make this game as fun as it can be!
So basically what I got from this video is make Leather Face broken and give survivors less chance of surviving early game. This isn’t Friday 13th where you can hit Jason with a baseball bat and he just eat that shit and kill you I’m sorry but the resilience idea is a no go for me
I agree will all your suggestions - Mainly because I don't play Victim like a Trolling Arse and actually like to play them as .... well ..... a Victim. So all your suggested changes won't effect me playing Victim and will make playing Bubba not the Farce it is now.
certainly good ideas to keep the tension and slow down the victiems, but tbh i think the rush meta arose because of how easy it was to kill victims and i thnk overall toughness should be increased, but as for the starting health this would probably help how much ppl waste hp bottles since i see some waste large bottles into less than 25% HP MISSING, but also how many will grab a 2nd lock pick and the bottle just dissapears 110% we need to have bottles set to the side like valves and fuses, or otw return to their original box, i also think that there should be a long timer to replenish hp and bone scrap, but as a small bottle and scraps go to a new location
I think it would be better if there were a way to randomize maps to make exits, items, and layouts different every few weeks. The scariest part about playing at the beginning was not knowing where everything was and everyone figuring out where to go.
I love the idea of bubba just like flicking dust off of his shoulder after a door slam. thats funny as S!*% (Now thoughts on the actual changes) I love them, i think they should be added in asap. The victims starting off with low health is a good idea on how to slow down the game
I had a similar ideia to LF on the early game. A rage bar that increase the damage and stum resilience every time that LF are stunned but the rage bar slowly decreases over time. Also i think that the door must break if LF are revving the chainsaw
Though I agree that Bubba should be more resistant to stuns, I think it should be done through a “rage” mechanic similar to Jason had in the F13 game. Think about it like this. At the start of the game, Bubba is worried about the victims escaping. He’s stressed and anxious, not knowing where they could be. This would explain why he can be knocked over by a door or stunned by some bone shard in the back. It’s less about the actual pain and more the surprise that comes with it. However, this fear Bubba is bound to turn into rage. After enough stuns and such, Leatherface would enter a temporary “tantrums mode.” In this state, he would become much more vocal AND destructive. Revved up chainsaw hits destroy doors, door slams no longer knock him down while also destroying the door in the process, it is impossible for him to overheat and stabbing him in the back will just result in him knocking victims back with his hand.
I think these changes would be good for the game, though I still feel like family as a whole doesn’t seem as fun as victim. I feel like playing killer in DBD is more adrenaline pumping than it is in TCM, and I can’t put my finger on what causes that. By extension, I wonder what easy changes the devs could make to make playing the family more interesting.
I think that's a great plan. Phase 0-1 are basically non-existent since victims start the game with the immediate goal of pushing phase 2 as fast as possible. Giving them an objective for early phases would go a long way towards making the match pace feel better. As leatherface I basically just leave the basement as soon as grandpa wakes up and begin preparing for phase 2 since if I chase someone through the basement for 30 seconds then by the time I get upstairs every other victim is already pressuring exits, so basically I'm immediately chasing people off things before I even get a chance to check where things spawned and get a patrol established. IMO if a victim breaks through a containment zone it should be because they found a gap in patrols, someone else coordinated a distraction plan, or the family neglected the door/gate. Not because leland stunlocked bubba and everyone else got out before sissy could make it through slaughterhouse.
They should rework bubba and basement. In addition to the things the video said, i would add more heals in basement and family members not being allowed except for bubba (only early game) cuz i have been getting rlly bad death games in a row just bcz someone woke grandpa early and everyone died in basement, there should be a way that bubba is more powerfull when he is inside tho, breaks stuff faster or smth
Yes I agree, horror games have a large hurdle with the culture people that just want to “win” My first example of people (not the mechanics) ruining a game: “Slide Cancel in Call of Duty”
It's so funny how nobody wants to play LF on the killer side because he gets bullied on in the basement. The devs can't ignore this as it will eventually kill their game as LF is a required character to start any lobby.
Every bubba is already running a damage build and every time I got hit by one yesterday it was a 1 shot… if you think you should be able to get killed in one shot by everyone not just leather face then sure.
It's way to easy for victim to bully the family. That needs to be gutted from the game. Especially the door abuse. Victims can just click a button to stun them with a door or bone scrap and they're stunned forever.
There has been so much whining by sweaty family mains to the devs since the game dropped and while I don’t have a problem with some changes it sure seems like they’re skewing almost all changes to the family. Playing against a group with coms is hard enough. Now they’re going to nerf Leland and Connie which is frankly ridiculous. The sweaty family cry babies eventually want victims to be in wheelchairs like Franklin from the movie. They’re literally complaining about everything. They should fix it to where your party doesn’t break up upon leaving a game. They’re trying to make it nearly impossible for victims to escape good players. It is supposed to be fun and immersive but they’re capitulating too much to family players. Playing family is fun too and if someone escapes or people escape it’s no big deal. What I’ve noticed is almost everyone used party chat with friends or no coms at all. Basically because random people tend to be A holes since I started playing Cod back in 2007 in my experience. So in TCM if you’re solo and no one is talking which is usually the case - A party of family has a major advantage major advantage. It’s rare to see 4 people on victims usually it’s 2 at most or 2 parties of 2. It’s good strategy that if you see high level family in a party of 3 you know they’re using coms so back out and find a new lobby.Voice chat is too toxic with people you don’t know and frankly can ruin the experience and be distracting. Good video and thought provoking 👍
I agree for the most part, I don't want to see Victims abilities nerfed at all, I think Leland should be able to smack a cook on his ass, it's funny! Hopefully they don't go too hard on nerfing because Victim can be really fun to play, as can Family. It's only really Leatherface I've had issues with! I appreciate you sharing your thoughts!
@@TheHotCrossEssays my pleasure, I think the sweaty family streamers emailing developers are going to ruin it. The only counter, is for people to email the devs saying leave the game alone. That feels like stopping to their level but it’s a fun game and would be a shame to see unit get nerfed into oblivion by a small percentage of player base. Best to you sir 👍take care !
@@agentallstar7They're gonna nerf family too with Sissy being first out so relax. The problem is sweaty speedrunners using exploits like when Leland constantly door slam and stab Bubba. For example he should at least be able to guard an objective and turn off the valve without there being a bone pile with infinite amount of bones right next to it with trolling players taking advantage of that. I enjoy playing both sides equally, no main at all but I consider those speedrunners just being trash to be honest, even Gun media doesn't want them in the game. This is a decent patch to prevent this kind of nonsense and hopefully this will be the first step to get them players back to dbd and get tcm in the shape that it deserves and was intended to be
@@dist221 oh wow they’ll fix a family bug when every other nerf was just part of the game that family mains complained about. Virtually every change going for family advantage. Those speed runners are a small amount of the players. Screw up the valve while cook has virtually every exit padlocked…yea great idea.
As of recent it feels like older games in the genre have a massive impact in future games. Like the dbd players who, if they dont disrespect 10 times match, while 4 queing will have their game taken from them for 24 hrs. Those people come over and need to do the same thing. Then it spreads one after another.
Noisy players = Attract leatherface, wake up grandpa, run past another player who leatherface then goes after, other killers come down to basement, noisy player has an easy escape. That’s basically the game right now and so it’s become a race to be the noisiest and fastest player at the expense of other victims. Then when out of the basement stealth the next set of gates. Then rush the final exit. The game is obviously not meant to be like this and so what devs need to do is punish noisy players more than just exposing the location of the noise because by time leatherface gets there they are long gone and some stealth player gets found instead. Escaping restraints fast should cause damage. Rushing bone scraps and toolboxes should make you have to start over like lockpicking does. There should be some things on the floor that can cause you to trip over if you are running. Victims like Leeland and Ana can afford to be noisy so they need to be nerfed a bit but improve their proficiency because that’s the fundamental reason why players rush. They are too slow and because they can take more damage there’s zero reason to stealth it. The design of the victims encourages it because it’s beneficial. I’d also like to see things like the basement exit shutting quicker so the player flicking the switch can never actually make it themselves, so it’s only an altruistic escape. More things should encourage team play imo.
Either get out quick or die quick, when u playing against very try hard families that crouch walking strat will not work on them. I dont think its the noisy player getting u killed if anything it makes them the main target.
I think TCM should be a game balanced around a tug of war concept. Such way that both teams seek control, and it's responsability of the Family causing fears on the players
I think the low health idea is not well thought out enough with the current state of the game. I don’t know the actually number of healing bottles are in the basement but let’s just say 8 spawn in the basement. They’re pretty useful to find if you drop downs a well after getting a hit a few times. But now we include the health decreased to 20% and everyone has to waste a healing bottle. Now you just halved the amount of healing they could use the basement if they are forced to retreat back down there. All because they are forced to heal themselves at the beginning now because they can get two shot wise. But what if we increase the healing items in the basement? There’s still slow down and victims still have the same amount of healing items they normally would. Well here’s the new problem. The victims can just run the perk that heals them off of close encounters and reserve the extra healing bottles for later. Because as long as a Hitchiker or Sissy isn’t nearby run to interrupted the grapple through the gap. Then the victims getting healed for free and they still get extra heals in the basement
Id like to see a second game mode called day 1. The victims are stuck at base stats. All hud icons are gone for victims, and perks that reveal door and lockpicks are not available. Victims running cause visual sound markers for the family. If you are playing as the family when you get into the cue, you get sent to the map right away while the victims ready up. The family can grab people who are going thru cracks or over tables. I understand this isnt balanced even a little, and the victims stand almost no chance of surviving. I think it would be a more realistic experience though. Obviously there would have to be more changes because spawning in and having grandpa at lvl 2 or 3 would be ridiculous. For the record i would be playing victim not the family if. that mode existed
As soon as I saw what the meta was becoming I opted out of the experience. It was cool at first just like anything else. It shouldn't be called the Victim Door Bash Massacre lol. The incoming patches seem to be heading in the right direction though so we'll see. They really do need to slow down the early game and not have LF walked all over with stuns. The stun resistance is a great idea.
There had never been a scary movie that scared me, but with games it’s different. You have the loud headphones on, hearing steps getting closer and closer. Like outlast trails I was very anxious playing. But this game doesn’t really. Even though I have become addicted to this game, it is lacking the scary feel to it.
Excellent video! TCM is my first asymm. I specifically avoided DbD due to it's over competitive/toxic nature and the fact that I want an actual HORROR game. The early games of victim upon release were an adrenaline rush that was the best feeling when you won but also a fun addictive feeling when you lost. The rush meta is horrible. I have 100+ hours in the game, have completed all the achievements/trophies, and have put equal time in both roles...the only role that I can remotely capture that feeling of rush anymore is the Family because they feel like the prey now.
Sorry but I hate the idea of starting with lower health because if we get rushed back into the basement or get sent down a well we have no health to go back to, I also think there should be a cool down on bones instead of a limited amount of bones per pile (1 can only be grabbed once per minute or so?). The character that makes the most noise resulting in waking up grandpa should be highlighted for 10-20 seconds after the grandpa cutscene. 1 door should get max 3 stuns before busting just like when you barge a door and break it with 3 taps. No one should be able to stun or stab Leatherface until he has exited his first room in the basement so no more cutscene Lelands rushing to stun and stab him repetitively, also gives time for the chainsaw to start uninterrupted. Just some of my ideas to help actually balance the playing field
See, this is where I feel Bortle is overshadowed by the Spike/Johnny/Timmy model. All Killer-type players exist as a subset of Achievers, for whom mastery entails superiority over others. They'll never score as highly in social or exploration as achievement, so the hardline between killer-achiever and plain-achiever seems unnecessary, looking back. Further, with this distinction between types of socializers -- showcasing the mad scientist or impresario aspects of exploration (johnny) while allowing the distinction between those who define their achievements externally (spike/killer/achiever) and those who define achievement internally (johnny/explorer-achiever). This allows us to observe Timmy as the story collecting type of socializer, or one just there for the experience. This model goes on to further look into peripheral aspects not central to the game such as those interested primarily in lore (Vorthos) or collecting and using sets (Melvin). Once you reach this 5-aspected stage, Spike (the winner), Johnny (the inventor), Timmy (the experiencer), Vorthos (the loreteller), and Melvin (the set collector), can be used to better express a gamer's true motives. These gamer types can then be expressed as percentages of a player's overall type and tendencies, or used on their own to describe a player's primary goal(s). So for example, the extremely rare type Spike-Vorthos, would want to win in any way possible so long as it was lore accurate. A Melvin-Johnny might want to see exactly what sort of weird chain-reaction you can set up within a given set only, such as when CoconutsRTS (dbd creator) does his "maximum screams" builds, and focuses on an objective purely created by himself "how many screams can these specific perks give me?". Whereas a Timmy just wants to talk about that one epic game. Yes, that makes Timmy a socializer, but it better specifies what the type means to a given person. Just as while Johnny and Vorthos certainly fit into Bortle's model as explorers their types can actually between extremely different. Bortle leaves a lot of room for that ambiguity but it's easily parsed when looking at it through the lens of Johnny and Vorthos. Fantastic content as always. And this is form someone with zero interest in TCM.
Just wanted to point this small detail out. Leland has lower toughness than most of the victims. He only has 20 points into it and Sonny has the lowest toughness with 15. Everyone else has 25 or higher. So the only thing Leland has going for him is his strength and not toughness since he has the second lowest or third lowest health pool
This happened to me but I've learnt to just enjoy it for what it is now instead of speed running each game now I've maxed out my characters I just take my time helping everyone escape & messing with the killers 😂 buy every so often comes a really challenging game & it becomes scary again lol
We need perfect balance, a game where both sides are equally likely to win and no matter how hard you try or how good your perks are sometimes you will just lose if family via victims escaping or dying before escaping as victims. Also not counting in all the factors if the parties are premade. I do not want this game to become what dead by daylight is. Nurse and blight rule as killer’s because it’s not balanced and no matter how hard you try against a good nurse you won’t have a fair chance. Stop all this complexity. Just balance the game so both sides have an equal fighting chance. I can accept if I fuck up or don’t play my best and lose. I can’t accept failing because I’m playing a game that’s fundamentally against the role I’m playing. Period.
No shit we rush because of various things, Grandpa ability goes up too fast, and Killer Kill time. Remember, survivors just like to escape just like killers like to kill
I would like a no perks or abilities mode I dont find the game fun when I win or lose really quickly. Running into a level 10 Sissy makes me not even want to play anymore lol if she touches you you're dead
TCM is quickly becoming like DBD in that there is a large (and growing) community of "killers" who revel in making the matches as unenjoyable as possible because their fragile egos can't fathom losing at a video game lmao.
If that's the attitude from the guy at 8 minutes then you know they are going to go the same way as behaviour/dead by daylight in gameplay and 'balancing'
They make these games way too hard on the killers. It happened with friday the 13th game. Its fun at first then people learn the cheese and then your getting stun locked and gangbanged by survivors. Take out the door stun completely it doesnt make sense or feel good
Leatherface needs to be a one hit kill. I don’t fucking care. The whole aspect of the game is to escape from the family not to run around with bone shards stabbing a 300 pound man with a chainsaw. The Family needs to be heavily overpowered to keep that sense of horror. When you have Victims literally teabagging, rushing exits, shoulder charging spam from Leland, failed grab attempts, toxic door slamming knock backs the game for Family becomes extremely un-fun. I love the game I really do but Victims are WAY too comfortable just to be running around freely doing whatever the hell they want due to the developers trying to “balance” the game. I say fuck balance and make the Family OP asf.
Leather face needs a rage mode just like Jason in F13 nobody is fearful of bubba and he deserves to feel more oppressive especially over time we have teams that refuse to leave farming XP and bullying inexperienced family members squads. Now let time build up and the music change and bubba becomes stun proof breaking doors on impact and with faster stamina Regen. That would be scary AF. 😂
(Preface i have only watched 37 seconds and this is just my first thoughts)Tbh all horror games will stop being scary the more you play them, like i thought biohazard was scary but when i died 37 times it stopped being scary tcm as well as every other horror games will stop being scary.
tbh even if all of your suggestions became real players would STILL find the meta on both sides, its just what happens when you have an online game with two competing sides. its not an issue that can BE solved
they need to bring back cross platform. i’m on Old Gen and Madden GTA 2K are all forcing users to go next gen to get full access to cross play and all possible content. TCS is now on that same path
In my opinion TCM and DBD aint scary for me. I think and not sure if anyone else agrees with me. But I find games like DBD and TCM ain't scary due to the fact I know the other side is another person playing those characters. Like single player games I find to be scary as I know its just me in the experience, I hope that makes sense.
Mah stealthy does not really work. Usually they feed grand pa before especially with a sissy and cook. Depend to which family member you have we just need to adapt.
It was only scary the first few games when u didn't know the map. I think the pacing is fine. It's a very fast paced game and highly competitive game. As a victim it is vital to out speed the surface defenders (usually hitchhiker and cook). Hence, you have to be out of the basement in less than a minute, and hopefully the others picked at least 2 doors. So before you can talk about slowing the game down, nerf hitch hiker and cook to two traps/pad locks. Buff Johnny and Sissy significantly, so they are used more. When I play victims, I try to end every match in under 3 mins. Sometimes u can do it in less than 2 minutes, if you play super optimally. Also I woukd like to see a 5v5 mode with a much larger map, and like 7 or 8 escape routes. As for the leather face bullying, that is fine, it gives the victims a way to fight back. Honestly, I think if family member is stabbed 3 times in the back, they should be dead. Besides if leatherface ever gets a kill in the early game, it usually results in a a full wipe very quickly. Especially in family house or gas station. So, yes the leather face should be able to get bullied l, it is 4v1. So people need to quit complaining about that.
@@kingol4801 The goal is to escape, as a victim. Hence the best way to do that is to rush at before they are in position, or before they can kill any fellow victims. Also you want open up routes on the surface as quick as possible, and expand the map, which increases escape odds significantly. Then once the map is expanded enough, you can escape any which way, especially a fuse. Hence, it all comes down to rushing through the basement, and getting to the surface as fast as possible. I am currently on a 17 solo queue escape streak, and all games were done in less than 3 minutes. Its the ideal strategy.
I really like your ideas, like starting at 20% of life. The game really needs to regain that atmosphere of fear. I've been thinking about making the damage to family members twice as high, to make the victims feel less confident. But I like the fact that they can't be killed in a single blow. I hope the development will be in line with your ideas.
Both of those ideas are family sided though. I don't think anyone should be able to speed run and should definitely still fear the killers, but balance the game or no one will want to play victim anymore. Killers camp exits, gates, doors, fuse box and rush well if you have to jump down there and stealth gameplay is hard when the killers rush basement because one character decided to make all the noise. It will be a quick die out to the game if it doesn't become a bit more even because no one will want to play if they know they will not be escaping.
I think your balance changes are spot on. Great ideas!! Especially the starting at 20% health. That would really slow things down and be more true to the aesthetics.
Something most people keep missing in all these Horror-film inspired games is that you cannot expect the fear to last forever.
The nature of fear in gaming is destined to incur diminishing returns, no matter how the game is structured. (PVP or PVE)
This is due to human nature and learning. People innately have some degree of fear for the unknown.
Common examples: Learning how to ride a bike or swimming; initially, the awkwardness of lacking muscle memory for the task and subsequent injury and/or embarrassment dupes people into assuming highly unrealistic notions of what they are actually capable of, and thus, they don't perform at even a basic level of competency.
But with time exposure and effort, they overcome these things. (with the occasional exception)
Even in highly lethal games where the margin of error is quite small, continued exposure via attempts gives way to the apathy of the mundane. Then, it becomes routine. Over time, as you grasp what you are truly capable of this inevitably leads towards more brazen behavior and experimentation.
In TCM, consider the evolution of the average player. On launch, I remember seeing Victims who would just hide in the basement forever, hoping someone else would figure things out as they were picked off one by one. They would seize up and stop every time they saw the a killer's "terror radius" aura or when Grandpa started yelling. But just a few days after launch, these same players all but vanished; most were stopping to deny Family a strategic advantage via their detection instead of out of panic.
Today, we have Victim rushers who know exactly when they have play quietly and when not to waste time. Their characters are specially built to minimize the risks of their tasks and know the maps inside-and-out.
All that change occurred in just a few weeks.
And I predicted all of that happening, because it has happened in literally every single other game that advertises itself as scary.
Phasmophobia and that genre personifies this process arguably more than any other.
In brief, it's a game where you and (up to) a few others enter a location to locate a ghost, identify it, and leave. The ghost unbeatable; you cannot "kill" it. Most of the time, you cannot see it. Over time, it will get mad enough to start hunting, where if it catches you, you die.
When the first debuted back in late 2020, I was actually, genuinely scared in a game for the first time in well over a decade because it did things all the other "scary" games rarely do right: No soundtrack, plenty of false positives in the environment, slow movement and actually pretty solid environmental ambience.
But as time went on, I learned that all but one ghost simply could not catch me during hunts as their movement speed was equal to mine. Locating the ghost early became much easier upon realizing that the spooky environments were completely harmless, and only a tiny handful of ghosts deviate from standard behavior sufficiently differently that they posed any threat of catching me off-guard. (among the originals, it was the early hunters and super-roamers like the Demon, Mare, Jinn and Banshee)
In time, like so many others, i became too accustomed to the game and it became routine.
It's a game best reserved for small doses and still an excellent game for occasional fun, but it will never be as scary to me as it was when I first started solely because the thing that made it scary was my own ignorance of how things worked and what I could do.
Everyone avoiding using Leather Face, of all people, tells us he isnt intimidating enough. I get stuck with him often because the majority will leave the lobby before using him. I dont mind him at all but it gets annoying not being able to switch characters because I'm a team player and will use him repeatedly before leaving a lobby.
He definitely needs an overhaul. Those bone scraps, shoulder bumps and door slams should have little to no effect. Bad enough victims can escape through cracks and crawl spaces, Leather Face advantage should be H2H combat. No one should be seeking out contact with Bubba
Yeah IKR, victims got a lot of safety in the basement with a ton of infinites as is and confident Leland's/Ana's will seek out LF's to bully them, even doing stuns on him while he's in the cutscene and unable to react. Shows that there is no real fear of him and also why very few people want to play him.
At the very least Bubba's stuns n such should be half the recovery time as other family members. And tbh I always get the most points playing as him and he's fun, so I don't understand the aversion aside from the team player aspect and one needs variety and would like to play other people.
Alternatively, maybe instead of starting with 20% health as a victim it might be interesting to see starting health be linked to how you escape your restraints. Yes you can escape quickly, but doing so lowers your health. Still narratively realistic without leading to a one hit kill scenario
Not a good suggestion.
I thought the same thing. It would make so much sense. Victims starts with some wounds and limb whole game, so why they are full health??
And Lealands woulnd't be so cocky.
Yea this is good. I like this. Great trade off
"without leading to a one hit kill scenario" Bubba can oneshot any full hp survivor if they don't bring "no sell" perk, except for Anna and Leland (if he can time his stun ability)
@@nicolaselev2211 I'm talking more in regards to a Johnny or Sissy who rushes to basement. I can't imagine anyone would be happy getting one shot by one of the weaker characters
love the oxford referencing, feels like reading a paper!
Maybe the game is less scary, but it's still got that "oh my I could die at any minute!" Intense feeling when one of the family gets too clse or I get the yellow border/sound warning they are close by. Still as fun as day 1!
I agree, but I feel like the early game doesn't have it so much is my point, the mid to late game is all fine imo
No it’s not the same as day 1. You’re on crack.
@@TheHotCrossEssaysthe early game should have it the most since you’re “trapped” in the basement
AS someone who mained family and quit earlier this week this video speaks to me.
Last weekend started loosing game after game with hitchhiker/leatherface. Realized there is this whole meta in the game (rush meta, bug exploits etc.)
Finally go to reddit to see about the game for the first time. Realize the reddit is littered with victims. Made a post about how the game is completely victim sided. Downvoted to hell. Was told it was because I'm new to the game and need to "git good".
Proceed to play Victim for the first time right after. Lost the first match. Won the second. Lost the third. Then escaped 15 times in a row.
The only thing on that reddit is that Sissy needs to be nerfed and how the family house map is too difficult for victims.
Like wtf? Its a game with victims AND family. Why not just replace all of the family with the teletubbies? Tinkie winkie, dipsy?
I KNOW you can win with family if you communicate really well and know the maps like a god.
But you DONT need to do that as a victim and that makes the game completely skewed in one direction.
It was a cool game initially, I genuinely loved the vibe of the game. But as you progress and learn the meta, the charming effect of the game is completely gone. Its really sad because as much as the dev's are "fixing" the game, theyre really not. Definitely not fixing the game if you're a family main.
Yeah honestly the most intense games are when you are last victim and that tense music starts to play imo is the cherry on top it really makes you feel terrified for your life😅
Excellent analysis. Props for giving sources. I also feel that this game, although great, needs some changes.
It's strange that game by design (at least in theory) encourages you to stay silent, but the meta is to rush searching for items.
I agree with everything you said about Letherface. I know it's funny, but how can you toss a giant like a ragdoll, just because you closed a light wooden door on him??
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed my nerdy referencing!
I agree with doors breaking if they stun LF. That makes sense to me. I think bone scrap piles and tool boxes should have a "cooldown" like the battery or the generator do too. If someone has looted something you have to move into new areas to search.
I've been suggesting that they remove the vaults from the basement as the current speed meta makes rushing around extremely valuable compared to stealth and with how much extra time it takes to remove the vaults. The ones upstairs are fine. But there are more than enough cracks and crawl spaces already that they dont need vaults as well.
as a victim main, I definitely agree. They have a chance of saving you, but also hold you back from getting where you want to go as quickly. Also there are a TON of them, for what lol
Adding more uncertainty and fear would definably make the same more entertaining and scary to watch on stream!!! (as someone who doesn't play more intense horror games but watches them) Very well put together and I really like the gamer psychology!
As a player who almost exclusively plays as Leatherface, I agree. He should be seen as a much bigger threat than he currently is.
Good video. I like the changes mentioned in the video and they make sense.
Only time I’ve been scared is when I go around a corner and a Leland fucking tackle jumpscares me. That shit changes you.
This channel is a blessing 😊 i learn so much.
Aw I'm really glad to hear that!
Wow what a great vid essay! So interesting and engaging
Homie out here citing sources and shit - earned a sub. Really good format for your videos
Thank you! That means a lot!
Like how in F13 Jason eventually became enraged or whatever. He could just barge through doors, immediately breaking them, and could not be stunned as easily. As someone who usually plays Leatherface just because I have to... I wouldn't mind these changes, but my main issue is with the chainsaw noise. It should be dampened for Leatherface. He is around it so much, and how most of us rev the chainsaw and run around, I get headaches after playing him too much. This is the main reason I have to stop playing him. Not because I'm mad at Lelands or Anas... not because the waking grandpa cutscene overheats my chainsaw 9/10 times... not because people gang up on me or slam doors in my face... but because the sound is just unbearable after a handful of matches. Dampen the sound or greatly extend his family sense for longer breaks from the noise.
Omg yes, I hope they let us turn down the chain saw volume soon! It's so loud!!
Explaining it lore wise he’d be use to it so it wouldn’t be as loud
I really like the idea of Bubba having stun resistance build up over the course of the game. If they want to be aggressive early game, then escaping later could be really hard since they can't stop Bubba from running them down.
Really great video, I’ll definitely be checking out a couple of the references to learn more about fear in video games as an avid scaredy cat and horror game enjoyer. There is a distinct lack of balloons though
Yeah there's definitely some interesting information in these papers tbh!
It happens to majority of the game once the survivor know how to exploit and abuse game mechanic and they will rush at your face kiting you all around until developer decide on the fear factor balancing
You can't "fear factor balance" though. Once you're used to something, it's not scary anymore.
@@BabysitterSky Yes, I remember the first time going to Halloween Horror Nights at Universal Orlando and how it was unlike any other Halloween event I had been to. All the scare actors have triggers to activate loud speakers and lights vs a teenager screaming at you. After a few years of going it takes a real jump scare to even get me to slightly react. Granted I still love going but there is never like that first time.
they could add more punishment to waking grandpa up such as 30 seconds of wall hacks on the player who made the most noise and maybe adding 50 % damage boost on that player and maybe even a free level 1 upgrade to grandpa.
This gotta be a joke💀
I think the other family members should start out closer to the central area where the basement doors are, so if the victims rush to get out the family can be there to stop them. Otherwise they’re out and working on things before the family can even get there. Or maybe let family pick their starting point. But as of now they just start too far away.
I like the idea of stun resistance building up for Leatherface. In the Friday the 13th game, Jason used to get bullied like crazy, until the patch that made him unable to be stunned after he enters rage. It helped a lot to make him intimidating again
I love your ideas they are super creative. I hope they implement some, especially that the survivors start off with less health
I think we can pair the low health (maybe 50%) with the abilities starting on cooldown. The most annoying part of the doors is the possible infinite stunt lock, like what's up with that? Any other game would PUSH YOU AWAY from the source but this one rarely does it.
As part of social aspect of the game, maybe add some sort of "Trust factor" like CSGO, where cheaters or ragging players get paired with each other while more social or better behaved players get paired. Knowing the lobby issue you would still get sore players but would be helpful to separate them if a little, considering the developers want this to be a party game. To help this system maybe consider when you heal other players or they use the paths you open (more while running from a killer or after a survivor).
Regarding player rating, I think Overwatch 1 was self sufficient with player feedback after matches, maybe something like that could help. Currently it's hard to enjoy wining (or losing) when people are try-harding the game.
It's a tad eye rolling seeing people treating this ASYMETRICAL game like if it was a competitive one (I've seen the survivors getting floored just for the single survivor to brag about it), I've seen less try-hards on Halo than on this game and that says something.
IDK why people come into these assymetrical party games treating them like competitive games even though the devs outright state that they want a casual, simulation experience.
It's almost like they're insulting the devs by playing them like this. I've also noticed a scary amount of competitive, salty players.
The update broke the game for me and my brother. My brother was being chased amd hit going down the well rose from the well laying down and was on the ground right in front of the family next thing you know hes up and runing in the air now and is able to sit on top of the building outside
I think that all of these are brilliant ideas, I just think Johnny should also have some form of grapple resistance and make it very risky to grapple Johnny.
As a bonus he should be able to booby-trap wells and windows, where the trap would stop the victims halfway down the well forcing them to climb out slowly and it would make a lot of noise. The windows will add bleed.
The potential for Johnny in TCM is IMMENSE....
As a "Killer player" this man is pretty on point
This game is still very scary to me.
The fear of a Leland stunning me during the opening cutscene every game is very real.
Because of how few health items there are they might need to add more to compensate for starting in a lower health state. Whenever I solo queue I have teammates rushing and grandpa is awake before the family cutscene is finished. Then the family rushes the basement and we are stuck in a death trap because no one had time to get unlock tools or open a basement door. I don't want the games to drag on forever either but them ending within 3 minutes certainly isn't fun.
Yeah I totally understand, I really would like to reduce the early game rush META, I would see no issue with more health items being in the basement to compensate for a lower starting health though! I think that'd be a fair trade off!
I had a group of victims rush the family house basement exit
Something that almost every asymmetrical game doesnt get is the 'main bad guy', the only games that got that right was Evolve and Friday the 13th, in Evolve when the monster reached level 3 it felt good, it felt like: now the shit just got real and almost certain death was coming to the hunters.
Friday the 13th got that right too, Jason was a menace, you could insta kill anyone if you grabbed them, that felt good because as soon a got tired of playing around i just started wiping the whole game.
TCM should have made the leatherface the scariest of them all, the MAIN villain should be the most dangerous threat and the most powerful, but leatherface cant pull people from crawl space and etc... leatherface has to politely await someone finish their s so it can start doing damage again, this takes all the 'i am the danger' of the character.
Its very funny because In TCM the Family are the ones that are doing their best so survivors just dont wipe the match.
It doesn’t help that in TCM one survivor escaping is considered a loss lol. Family gotta work hard to defend all exits
Did not feel good dying to a TP blink grab from Jason lmao. Ofc it felt good to do, but there needs to b something called balance, n the survivor end of that? Yeah nah
in the movies, many of the family members are more sadistic and evil natured than leatherface, he is emotionally vulnerable and while he is the poster child of the entire franchise, i feel like there are other characters who should feel more threatening
@@calebstevens9446 but thats where the fun begins to me, survivors had to really be good at the game a play together to be easier for them to escape, the Big dudes protected the smaller ones while they did the objectives, rushing solo was not viable.
the thing is that survivors are too pampered these days with 'fair game for all', when you enable survivors to survive the killer in a 1v1 sittuation then they get too strong and the 1v4 becomes even more unfair for the killer, thus Dead by Daylight is born.
@@joelmcknight9995 yeah, that is kinda nuts considering how many escape options survivors have, its considered a loss if one escape but what i consider a win is farming as many points as i can, progressing my account is more important than what the game consider a win, and the progression system is slow enough to only about kills.
After i stopped caring for what the game considers a win, my games became much more fun, putting your win condition onto other people being killed exclusively can lead to some really stressful matches.
Leatherface can break doors, crawl spaces and vaults there is ton of these in a match so i try to break everything i can, that is a good amount of xp and because of that victims doesnt have much space to run and protect themsdelves with doors and such so we endup sometimes killer all of them.
Any game will always come down to winning or losing. And even so being emmersed in the TCM universe pushes you toward escaping at the soonest possible point without being detected at all which ends up at the same outcome
I think you nailed it with Leatherface give him an a agitation level as the match goes on or as he attacks or is attacked and maybe when he stalls out missing a strike. maybe add the ability to destroy all crawl spaces forcing the survivor to keep moving and not try to loop. Make him something to be avoided and ran from.
The other killers outside Sissy's current issues are balanced for the most part. Maybe add something more to make up for cooks slow speed.
I think also survivors should take minor damage when doing anything not sneaking. It's made it clear they are bleeding out they should feel a stronger sense of urgency and risk vs reward.
Though I do think they all family need to do a bit more damage as it caused a problem with grandpa.
I noticed family have started feeding grandpa less and less either because it interferes with their build which requires a full blood flask or because one of the survivors will just stab grandpa undoing a few minutes worth of work that they don't have time bothering to charge grandpa up again.
So I think Grandpa needs to be buffed first that if grandpa does get stabbed it takes let's say 50 blood to level him back up instead of 100. Second that maybe at level 3 or 5 Grandpa is strong enough to use that hammer to defend himself. Not doing a lot of damage but maybe giving the attacker the concussion effect and a bloodtrail that makes getting away from grandpa after more difficult.
Outside that I think that the fuse and water exits need to be looked at. That once used a family can destroy the fuse and reset the box so it can't be resused easily. Similar for the water being able to close it as fast a Victim can open it but allow it to build pressure a little faster in exchange but once shut off the kill breaks the valve forcing victims to find another to reuse.
I think the next best thing to do is to make all exits require equal amount of effort and/or risk. The 2 big ones would be the gas station exit and the slaughter house steam exit.
Maybe…
1.) if players escape too quickly Grandpa starts at a higher level, or give another objective to complete in the basement before opening the doors, one each player has to complete separately to lower the level grandpa is once the doors are unlocked. If no players complete the objective grandpa is at level 4, so on.
2.) get rid of vault crates in the basement, or have less of them. If the meta is to rush then let leather face rush them too.
Generally I’d say don’t buff or nerf characters, characters aren’t the problem, force the victims to work together, force the family to work together. I’ve played matches where as a victim just as I escape the basement someone has already escaped the family. That’s because I suck (lol) and one person, by themselves was able to get through every obstacle way too quickly and the only “teamwork” was the family chasing other players instead of that one. With all that said, they’re slowly rolling out little changes instead of jumping the gun and handing out huge buffs and nerfs and massive gameplay changes (looking at you Evil Dead) that ultimately will make the game impossible to balance.
As Johnny on the family house map, I had a Connie who already was out of the basement and unlocking one of the front doors before I could even get into the house from my spawnpoint.
There has to be some form of negative impact from rushing imo
Great ideas! I love them all and I do believe they would contribute to the objectives you mentioned, which I share
That's a great point you make and exactly the reason I bought the game in the first place. It was very hard to get into the game because I went in with fear and played very carefully while others didn't and that plus my lack of understanding of it's mechanics got me killed very fast and very often which is very frustrating. Now that I have a better grasp at it's inner workings and meta the game is much less scary but it's also much less fun. I agree with your suggestions and from the start thought TCM should have a much slower pacing. I hope the devs see it the same way and work to make this game as fun as it can be!
So basically what I got from this video is make Leather Face broken and give survivors less chance of surviving early game. This isn’t Friday 13th where you can hit Jason with a baseball bat and he just eat that shit and kill you I’m sorry but the resilience idea is a no go for me
I'm so glad you got it! 🙄
I agree will all your suggestions - Mainly because I don't play Victim like a Trolling Arse and actually like to play them as .... well ..... a Victim.
So all your suggested changes won't effect me playing Victim and will make playing Bubba not the Farce it is now.
certainly good ideas to keep the tension and slow down the victiems, but tbh i think the rush meta arose because of how easy it was to kill victims and i thnk overall toughness should be increased, but as for the starting health this would probably help how much ppl waste hp bottles since i see some waste large bottles into less than 25% HP MISSING, but also how many will grab a 2nd lock pick and the bottle just dissapears
110% we need to have bottles set to the side like valves and fuses, or otw return to their original box, i also think that there should be a long timer to replenish hp and bone scrap, but as a small bottle and scraps go to a new location
I think it would be better if there were a way to randomize maps to make exits, items, and layouts different every few weeks. The scariest part about playing at the beginning was not knowing where everything was and everyone figuring out where to go.
It's supposed to be a fun game If you want competitive go play Dbd
This video was really well done and you should be proud. Also, TAKE THIS ALGORITHM
I love the idea of bubba just like flicking dust off of his shoulder after a door slam. thats funny as S!*%
(Now thoughts on the actual changes) I love them, i think they should be added in asap. The victims starting off with low health is a good idea on how to slow down the game
I had a similar ideia to LF on the early game.
A rage bar that increase the damage and stum resilience every time that LF are stunned but the rage bar slowly decreases over time.
Also i think that the door must break if LF are revving the chainsaw
Though I agree that Bubba should be more resistant to stuns, I think it should be done through a “rage” mechanic similar to Jason had in the F13 game.
Think about it like this. At the start of the game, Bubba is worried about the victims escaping. He’s stressed and anxious, not knowing where they could be. This would explain why he can be knocked over by a door or stunned by some bone shard in the back. It’s less about the actual pain and more the surprise that comes with it.
However, this fear Bubba is bound to turn into rage. After enough stuns and such, Leatherface would enter a temporary “tantrums mode.” In this state, he would become much more vocal AND destructive.
Revved up chainsaw hits destroy doors, door slams no longer knock him down while also destroying the door in the process, it is impossible for him to overheat and stabbing him in the back will just result in him knocking victims back with his hand.
Those are great solutions for pacing!
I think these changes would be good for the game, though I still feel like family as a whole doesn’t seem as fun as victim. I feel like playing killer in DBD is more adrenaline pumping than it is in TCM, and I can’t put my finger on what causes that. By extension, I wonder what easy changes the devs could make to make playing the family more interesting.
there is still tension when you're going for a risky stealth play, and hope too not get caught.
I think that's a great plan. Phase 0-1 are basically non-existent since victims start the game with the immediate goal of pushing phase 2 as fast as possible. Giving them an objective for early phases would go a long way towards making the match pace feel better. As leatherface I basically just leave the basement as soon as grandpa wakes up and begin preparing for phase 2 since if I chase someone through the basement for 30 seconds then by the time I get upstairs every other victim is already pressuring exits, so basically I'm immediately chasing people off things before I even get a chance to check where things spawned and get a patrol established. IMO if a victim breaks through a containment zone it should be because they found a gap in patrols, someone else coordinated a distraction plan, or the family neglected the door/gate. Not because leland stunlocked bubba and everyone else got out before sissy could make it through slaughterhouse.
i had an idea where if victims wake grandpa up with anything but the escape doors, his scream would act like a level 5 for the first scream
They should rework bubba and basement. In addition to the things the video said, i would add more heals in basement and family members not being allowed except for bubba (only early game) cuz i have been getting rlly bad death games in a row just bcz someone woke grandpa early and everyone died in basement, there should be a way that bubba is more powerfull when he is inside tho, breaks stuff faster or smth
Yes I agree, horror games have a large hurdle with the culture people that just want to “win”
My first example of people (not the mechanics) ruining a game: “Slide Cancel in Call of Duty”
It's so funny how nobody wants to play LF on the killer side because he gets bullied on in the basement. The devs can't ignore this as it will eventually kill their game as LF is a required character to start any lobby.
Great video bro
Every bubba is already running a damage build and every time I got hit by one yesterday it was a 1 shot… if you think you should be able to get killed in one shot by everyone not just leather face then sure.
It's way to easy for victim to bully the family. That needs to be gutted from the game.
Especially the door abuse. Victims can just click a button to stun them with a door or bone scrap and they're stunned forever.
There has been so much whining by sweaty family mains to the devs since the game dropped and while I don’t have a problem with some changes it sure seems like they’re skewing almost all changes to the family. Playing against a group with coms is hard enough. Now they’re going to nerf Leland and Connie which is frankly ridiculous. The sweaty family cry babies eventually want victims to be in wheelchairs like Franklin from the movie. They’re literally complaining about everything. They should fix it to where your party doesn’t break up upon leaving a game. They’re trying to make it nearly impossible for victims to escape good players. It is supposed to be fun and immersive but they’re capitulating too much to family players. Playing family is fun too and if someone escapes or people escape it’s no big deal. What I’ve noticed is almost everyone used party chat with friends or no coms at all. Basically because random people tend to be A holes since I started playing Cod back in 2007 in my experience. So in TCM if you’re solo and no one is talking which is usually the case - A party of family has a major advantage major advantage. It’s rare to see 4 people on victims usually it’s 2 at most or 2 parties of 2. It’s good strategy that if you see high level family in a party of 3 you know they’re using coms so back out and find a new lobby.Voice chat is too toxic with people you don’t know and frankly can ruin the experience and be distracting. Good video and thought provoking 👍
I agree for the most part, I don't want to see Victims abilities nerfed at all, I think Leland should be able to smack a cook on his ass, it's funny!
Hopefully they don't go too hard on nerfing because Victim can be really fun to play, as can Family. It's only really Leatherface I've had issues with! I appreciate you sharing your thoughts!
@@TheHotCrossEssays my pleasure, I think the sweaty family streamers emailing developers are going to ruin it. The only counter, is for people to email the devs saying leave the game alone. That feels like stopping to their level but it’s a fun game and would be a shame to see unit get nerfed into oblivion by a small percentage of player base. Best to you sir 👍take care !
@@agentallstar7They're gonna nerf family too with Sissy being first out so relax.
The problem is sweaty speedrunners using exploits like when Leland constantly door slam and stab Bubba. For example he should at least be able to guard an objective and turn off the valve without there being a bone pile with infinite amount of bones right next to it with trolling players taking advantage of that.
I enjoy playing both sides equally, no main at all but I consider those speedrunners just being trash to be honest, even Gun media doesn't want them in the game.
This is a decent patch to prevent this kind of nonsense and hopefully this will be the first step to get them players back to dbd and get tcm in the shape that it deserves and was intended to be
@@dist221 oh wow they’ll fix a family bug when every other nerf was just part of the game that family mains complained about. Virtually every change going for family advantage. Those speed runners are a small amount of the players. Screw up the valve while cook has virtually every exit padlocked…yea great idea.
@j4Rose to clarify who’s insulting someone ?
First game where I’m having fun but can see the writing on the wall.
As of recent it feels like older games in the genre have a massive impact in future games.
Like the dbd players who, if they dont disrespect 10 times match, while 4 queing will have their game taken from them for 24 hrs. Those people come over and need to do the same thing. Then it spreads one after another.
The stun resistance is a good idea but I don’t think he should be completely immune after so many it should just have very little effect
I ain’t gon lie playing ana with the op build I use I have like negative fear lol this game ain’t scary once u learn what’s good
Noisy players =
Attract leatherface, wake up grandpa, run past another player who leatherface then goes after, other killers come down to basement, noisy player has an easy escape.
That’s basically the game right now and so it’s become a race to be the noisiest and fastest player at the expense of other victims. Then when out of the basement stealth the next set of gates. Then rush the final exit.
The game is obviously not meant to be like this and so what devs need to do is punish noisy players more than just exposing the location of the noise because by time leatherface gets there they are long gone and some stealth player gets found instead. Escaping restraints fast should cause damage. Rushing bone scraps and toolboxes should make you have to start over like lockpicking does. There should be some things on the floor that can cause you to trip over if you are running. Victims like Leeland and Ana can afford to be noisy so they need to be nerfed a bit but improve their proficiency because that’s the fundamental reason why players rush. They are too slow and because they can take more damage there’s zero reason to stealth it. The design of the victims encourages it because it’s beneficial.
I’d also like to see things like the basement exit shutting quicker so the player flicking the switch can never actually make it themselves, so it’s only an altruistic escape. More things should encourage team play imo.
I really like a lot of these ideas to be honest! Especially the basement solely being an altruistic option!
Either get out quick or die quick, when u playing against very try hard families that crouch walking strat will not work on them. I dont think its the noisy player getting u killed if anything it makes them the main target.
I think TCM should be a game balanced around a tug of war concept. Such way that both teams seek control, and it's responsability of the Family causing fears on the players
I think the low health idea is not well thought out enough with the current state of the game. I don’t know the actually number of healing bottles are in the basement but let’s just say 8 spawn in the basement. They’re pretty useful to find if you drop downs a well after getting a hit a few times. But now we include the health decreased to 20% and everyone has to waste a healing bottle. Now you just halved the amount of healing they could use the basement if they are forced to retreat back down there. All because they are forced to heal themselves at the beginning now because they can get two shot wise. But what if we increase the healing items in the basement? There’s still slow down and victims still have the same amount of healing items they normally would. Well here’s the new problem. The victims can just run the perk that heals them off of close encounters and reserve the extra healing bottles for later. Because as long as a Hitchiker or Sissy isn’t nearby run to interrupted the grapple through the gap. Then the victims getting healed for free and they still get extra heals in the basement
Id like to see a second game mode called day 1. The victims are stuck at base stats. All hud icons are gone for victims, and perks that reveal door and lockpicks are not available. Victims running cause visual sound markers for the family.
If you are playing as the family when you get into the cue, you get sent to the map right away while the victims ready up. The family can grab people who are going thru cracks or over tables.
I understand this isnt balanced even a little, and the victims stand almost no chance of surviving. I think it would be a more realistic experience though. Obviously there would have to be more changes because spawning in and having grandpa at lvl 2 or 3 would be ridiculous.
For the record i would be playing victim not the family if. that mode existed
I think 20% is too low Mabel 50 75% health
Yeah you might be right! Just something to make the Victim's feel like they should heal up before venturing out too much would help!
It’s a video game like a movie doing it over and over it’s not scary anymore
As soon as I saw what the meta was becoming I opted out of the experience. It was cool at first just like anything else. It shouldn't be called the Victim Door Bash Massacre lol. The incoming patches seem to be heading in the right direction though so we'll see. They really do need to slow down the early game and not have LF walked all over with stuns. The stun resistance is a great idea.
There had never been a scary movie that scared me, but with games it’s different. You have the loud headphones on, hearing steps getting closer and closer. Like outlast trails I was very anxious playing. But this game doesn’t really. Even though I have become addicted to this game, it is lacking the scary feel to it.
Excellent video! TCM is my first asymm. I specifically avoided DbD due to it's over competitive/toxic nature and the fact that I want an actual HORROR game. The early games of victim upon release were an adrenaline rush that was the best feeling when you won but also a fun addictive feeling when you lost. The rush meta is horrible. I have 100+ hours in the game, have completed all the achievements/trophies, and have put equal time in both roles...the only role that I can remotely capture that feeling of rush anymore is the Family because they feel like the prey now.
Tcm should have chat proximity and the victims shouldn't be able to know who the other 2 family members are till you see them in game
Sorry but I hate the idea of starting with lower health because if we get rushed back into the basement or get sent down a well we have no health to go back to, I also think there should be a cool down on bones instead of a limited amount of bones per pile (1 can only be grabbed once per minute or so?). The character that makes the most noise resulting in waking up grandpa should be highlighted for 10-20 seconds after the grandpa cutscene. 1 door should get max 3 stuns before busting just like when you barge a door and break it with 3 taps. No one should be able to stun or stab Leatherface until he has exited his first room in the basement so no more cutscene Lelands rushing to stun and stab him repetitively, also gives time for the chainsaw to start uninterrupted. Just some of my ideas to help actually balance the playing field
honestly some great suggestions. stun resistance for sure is a must
See, this is where I feel Bortle is overshadowed by the Spike/Johnny/Timmy model. All Killer-type players exist as a subset of Achievers, for whom mastery entails superiority over others. They'll never score as highly in social or exploration as achievement, so the hardline between killer-achiever and plain-achiever seems unnecessary, looking back. Further, with this distinction between types of socializers -- showcasing the mad scientist or impresario aspects of exploration (johnny) while allowing the distinction between those who define their achievements externally (spike/killer/achiever) and those who define achievement internally (johnny/explorer-achiever). This allows us to observe Timmy as the story collecting type of socializer, or one just there for the experience.
This model goes on to further look into peripheral aspects not central to the game such as those interested primarily in lore (Vorthos) or collecting and using sets (Melvin). Once you reach this 5-aspected stage, Spike (the winner), Johnny (the inventor), Timmy (the experiencer), Vorthos (the loreteller), and Melvin (the set collector), can be used to better express a gamer's true motives. These gamer types can then be expressed as percentages of a player's overall type and tendencies, or used on their own to describe a player's primary goal(s).
So for example, the extremely rare type Spike-Vorthos, would want to win in any way possible so long as it was lore accurate. A Melvin-Johnny might want to see exactly what sort of weird chain-reaction you can set up within a given set only, such as when CoconutsRTS (dbd creator) does his "maximum screams" builds, and focuses on an objective purely created by himself "how many screams can these specific perks give me?". Whereas a Timmy just wants to talk about that one epic game. Yes, that makes Timmy a socializer, but it better specifies what the type means to a given person. Just as while Johnny and Vorthos certainly fit into Bortle's model as explorers their types can actually between extremely different. Bortle leaves a lot of room for that ambiguity but it's easily parsed when looking at it through the lens of Johnny and Vorthos.
Fantastic content as always. And this is form someone with zero interest in TCM.
Just wanted to point this small detail out. Leland has lower toughness than most of the victims. He only has 20 points into it and Sonny has the lowest toughness with 15. Everyone else has 25 or higher. So the only thing Leland has going for him is his strength and not toughness since he has the second lowest or third lowest health pool
This happened to me but I've learnt to just enjoy it for what it is now instead of speed running each game now I've maxed out my characters I just take my time helping everyone escape & messing with the killers 😂 buy every so often comes a really challenging game & it becomes scary again lol
When I play as Leland I have no fear🎉🎉 But Connie Im scared $hitless!!
We need perfect balance, a game where both sides are equally likely to win and no matter how hard you try or how good your perks are sometimes you will just lose if family via victims escaping or dying before escaping as victims. Also not counting in all the factors if the parties are premade.
I do not want this game to become what dead by daylight is. Nurse and blight rule as killer’s because it’s not balanced and no matter how hard you try against a good nurse you won’t have a fair chance. Stop all this complexity. Just balance the game so both sides have an equal fighting chance. I can accept if I fuck up or don’t play my best and lose. I can’t accept failing because I’m playing a game that’s fundamentally against the role I’m playing. Period.
No shit we rush because of various things, Grandpa ability goes up too fast, and Killer Kill time. Remember, survivors just like to escape just like killers like to kill
I would like a no perks or abilities mode I dont find the game fun when I win or lose really quickly. Running into a level 10 Sissy makes me not even want to play anymore lol if she touches you you're dead
still feel like you're about to tell me conspiracy theories about a 15 year old cold case
TCM is quickly becoming like DBD in that there is a large (and growing) community of "killers" who revel in making the matches as unenjoyable as possible because their fragile egos can't fathom losing at a video game lmao.
I was using the study version of killer he mentioned in the vid for what "killer" means, not just killers in TCM hence the "" around killer. @j4Rose
If that's the attitude from the guy at 8 minutes then you know they are going to go the same way as behaviour/dead by daylight in gameplay and 'balancing'
They make these games way too hard on the killers. It happened with friday the 13th game. Its fun at first then people learn the cheese and then your getting stun locked and gangbanged by survivors. Take out the door stun completely it doesnt make sense or feel good
Once again we will see the gaming community kill a game and then complain at the devs.
Idk leather face scares me all game. Anyone else is a joke though.
anyone remember that Fear character from Inside out?
Leatherface needs to be a one hit kill. I don’t fucking care. The whole aspect of the game is to escape from the family not to run around with bone shards stabbing a 300 pound man with a chainsaw. The Family needs to be heavily overpowered to keep that sense of horror. When you have Victims literally teabagging, rushing exits, shoulder charging spam from Leland, failed grab attempts, toxic door slamming knock backs the game for Family becomes extremely un-fun. I love the game I really do but Victims are WAY too comfortable just to be running around freely doing whatever the hell they want due to the developers trying to “balance” the game. I say fuck balance and make the Family OP asf.
Leather face needs a rage mode just like Jason in F13 nobody is fearful of bubba and he deserves to feel more oppressive especially over time we have teams that refuse to leave farming XP and bullying inexperienced family members squads. Now let time build up and the music change and bubba becomes stun proof breaking doors on impact and with faster stamina Regen. That would be scary AF. 😂
Also this video was British AF
(Preface i have only watched 37 seconds and this is just my first thoughts)Tbh all horror games will stop being scary the more you play them, like i thought biohazard was scary but when i died 37 times it stopped being scary tcm as well as every other horror games will stop being scary.
tbh even if all of your suggestions became real players would STILL find the meta on both sides, its just what happens when you have an online game with two competing sides. its not an issue that can BE solved
they need to bring back cross platform. i’m on Old Gen and Madden GTA 2K are all forcing users to go next gen to get full access to cross play and all possible content. TCS is now on that same path
In my opinion TCM and DBD aint scary for me. I think and not sure if anyone else agrees with me. But I find games like DBD and TCM ain't scary due to the fact I know the other side is another person playing those characters. Like single player games I find to be scary as I know its just me in the experience, I hope that makes sense.
Mah stealthy does not really work. Usually they feed grand pa before especially with a sissy and cook.
Depend to which family member you have we just need to adapt.
It was only scary the first few games when u didn't know the map.
I think the pacing is fine. It's a very fast paced game and highly competitive game. As a victim it is vital to out speed the surface defenders (usually hitchhiker and cook). Hence, you have to be out of the basement in less than a minute, and hopefully the others picked at least 2 doors.
So before you can talk about slowing the game down, nerf hitch hiker and cook to two traps/pad locks. Buff Johnny and Sissy significantly, so they are used more.
When I play victims, I try to end every match in under 3 mins. Sometimes u can do it in less than 2 minutes, if you play super optimally.
Also I woukd like to see a 5v5 mode with a much larger map, and like 7 or 8 escape routes.
As for the leather face bullying, that is fine, it gives the victims a way to fight back. Honestly, I think if family member is stabbed 3 times in the back, they should be dead.
Besides if leatherface ever gets a kill in the early game, it usually results in a a full wipe very quickly. Especially in family house or gas station.
So, yes the leather face should be able to get bullied l, it is 4v1. So people need to quit complaining about that.
You missed the entirety of what this game stands for
@@kingol4801 The goal is to escape, as a victim. Hence the best way to do that is to rush at before they are in position, or before they can kill any fellow victims. Also you want open up routes on the surface as quick as possible, and expand the map, which increases escape odds significantly. Then once the map is expanded enough, you can escape any which way, especially a fuse. Hence, it all comes down to rushing through the basement, and getting to the surface as fast as possible.
I am currently on a 17 solo queue escape streak, and all games were done in less than 3 minutes. Its the ideal strategy.
I really like your ideas, like starting at 20% of life. The game really needs to regain that atmosphere of fear. I've been thinking about making the damage to family members twice as high, to make the victims feel less confident. But I like the fact that they can't be killed in a single blow. I hope the development will be in line with your ideas.
Both of those ideas are family sided though. I don't think anyone should be able to speed run and should definitely still fear the killers, but balance the game or no one will want to play victim anymore. Killers camp exits, gates, doors, fuse box and rush well if you have to jump down there and stealth gameplay is hard when the killers rush basement because one character decided to make all the noise. It will be a quick die out to the game if it doesn't become a bit more even because no one will want to play if they know they will not be escaping.