Single Bevel & Ancient Origins! Arrowheads? Atlatl??
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- To send pictures of artifacts, please read the instructions below carefully and thank you for participating!
The email to send beveled artifact pictures to is beveledpoints@aol.com
This email is only for pictures of beveled points. When submitting to our database, please include 1 picture of the bevel, one picture of the overall style of the point, and also please let us know in the email which hand you are holding the point with so we don't have any mirroring issues. thanks!
If you would like one of these casts, you can find them here gillsprimitive... - บันเทิง
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Imagine there were right-handed and left-handed people in the cave workshop, so maybe both sides could be sharpened without separating them from the shaft. ok, fun ... your contend is addictive! Greetings from Germany.
Fascinating hypothesis. Well thought out and tested, I really think you're on to something.
OT: Aesthetically, the blood red streak on that point ( appears blood red on my display, at least ) is quite an eye catcher.
Dude, I see u on every vid.....
Great video! Really interesting what modern knappers/stone workers can tell us about paleo peoples. You have a unique perspective on how those people would have thought about and used stone technologies. Keep up the good content!
Wow! What great reasoning. You’ve convinced me.
Dude that was way more interesting than I was expecting it to be! Well done!
This is very interesting and shows why people need to use tools to fully understand them. Based on this I will not be making any beveled stone points to try to replicate the bone splitting effects of steel ones. I had thought of trying it but you have saved me a waste of time. Thank you Mr Gill.
thanks very much for following along
another unbelievably informative video! Ryan, you are a badass!!
I would love to see what one of these beveled points does to an animal, and how it’s performance differs (if any) from a “properly beveled” point
Please make small game and turkey hunting video with long bow
True
Greg Perino studied and had records of his beveled points. He also noted alot of knives/ tools were used by women and all were left handed, if you swap em between your hands it becomes obvious which hand it fits best.
I know, I'm necromancing this thread, but I did see the research several years ago about the single beveled points. The idea, and IIRC, this was actually tested on real animals, isn't just the punching through the bone, but the spinning separates the bone further than not spinning, which reduces drag on the shaft as it passes through the bone too. It was also shown that the spinning will tangle up a lot of soft tissue, such as intestines, connective tissue around the heart, etc... before cutting it, broadly increasing the diameter of the wound channel.
Really great video Ryan, I'll send a pic of the beveled knife I found in Georgia when I was a kid.
Handedness is an interesting topic and I have a small collection of papers on the topic. I'll grab the references when I get home. But consider what happens if there is a preference for sharpening from tip to base, over base to tip. Flake scars may be more important for determining handedness than the bevel.
Here's the papers I have in my academia.edu library on the "Handedness" subject. Accounts on academia.edu are free to setup and use if you don't have one already.
www.academia.edu/31389898/In_the_knappers_hands_identifying_handedness_from_lithic_production_and_use
www.academia.edu/2370056/To_the_left_or_to_the_right_Inferring_handedness_from_the_lithic_material_on_the_Early_Maglemosian_site_of_Mullerup_S_Zealand_Denmark
www.academia.edu/11587251/Determining_Hominid_Handedness_in_Lithic_Debitage_A_Review_of_Current_Methodologies
Just thought I'd post this in case anyone is curious. It's from Ed Ashby:
journalofmountainhunting.com/the-case-for-single-bevel-broadheads/
What effect does broadhead rotation have during tissue penetration, and why is it an advantage? There are several advantages, but the most obvious is when the arrow penetrates bone. The bevel-induced rotation tends to cause massive bone breaks; especially in the heavier bone; whereas a double-bevel broadhead simply forces its way directly through, rarely splitting any other than the very lightest of bone. Splitting, rather than piercing bone has demonstrated a major penetration benefit - it lowers drag on the trailing shaft; and test results show that shaft drag is a huge penetration-reducing factor.
Wow! That's awesome! You have the same shirt that I do!
I really like it btw and it's of a really decent quality. The only improvement I could possibly make to it would be to add pockets which would most likely take away from the look.
Real good information good to know about the casting.
Excellent great stuff. Thanks for sharing
You are full of skills, my friend
Great hypothesis! This is so easily over looked.
Very knowledgeable sir!! U are the best thing smokin on TH-cam!! I look for rocks here in the bluegrass state and I find dovetails, lost lakes, and Cobbs blades and they're beveled as well. The lost lakes are always beveled on the left hand side. The dovetails are usually both sides. As well as the Cobbs. My cousins are always making a big deal about a point being beveled and I told them that it was just Resharpened.
thanks. I am also starting to draw some correlations to the ones with the pronouced shoulders from resharpening (like this one) may very well be knife blades and sharpened from the opposite direction like this dalton. It is interesting stuff, but it's probably impossible to really hit it with any stamp of positivity
@@huntprimitive9918 It amazes me to the fullest on how smart and savvy the Indian ppl are and were. I have a question: I want to order the repo on the Dalton, but do u have any other reproductions on ur website? Thanks
@@OhioRiverFisherman I do have a couple more big pieces, and will have a few more to add in the near future as well, including a clovis, and a bone pin projectile
I worked with a guy about 20yrs ago. He would find ancient kill/camp sites where knapping was done by driving re-bar rods into the ground, here in central Fl. He said that the chips/flakes could be felt/heard when they contacted the rod. IIRC he said that he could also sometimes find old campfire sites by carbon on the rod when he removed the rod. Therefore causing a more thorough search. He knapped points also by "fire treating" stone. I thought it caused a better flake pattern based on his description. Question, would it cause the points to be any more/less brittle in your opinion.
heat treating does make the rock slicker and break easier. The result is a sharper edge and easier to work stone, but the trade off is strength, which really isnt that big of a deal. Most of the points I knap are from heat treated rocks. Heat treating didn't become widely used in North America until about 8k years ago +/-
Ryan, your use of the word, "helical" is very experimental, lol. Cheers
Great video Ryan
Single bevel RULEZ, it just crashes bone and twists through soft tissue, converting forward motion to rotation and vice versa
Amazing
Very insightful.
Brilliant!
14:00. Gum is made from tree sap. Dont build a fire and contaminate the air on the hunting grounds. Carry gum. Clean your teeth a bit chew to help with sensory stimulation. Pitch break can be temporarily fixed forward for a rethrow. Its a theory not a fact. But its also a bet. In the cold air on a hunt the gum will stiffen up and hold the point to attention for penetration. May result on more organ damage given the wobble, but that's what shot placement pride is for. May result in less than that if shot placement is poor or temps are to warm.
Enjoyed man. Thx for yhe info on what cooking the rocks do . I wasn't sure if you did that before or after you made the point. Is there anything else that could substitute the senue? For binding ? Im probably going to be buying a kit from you before to long . Im just working with stuff i found around the house. Lol rocks , a Philips head screw driver for pressure flaking and i bronze rod i use for a billet and after both my legs were brused all over I found an old mouse pad to sit on my lap.lol I have two pretty stones one red and one dark gray and both are hard as hell but really pretty and I think if I could make something out of it would be awesome. I have a pile of both Colors that I think could be made into arrow heads and maybe a couple small knives . The rocks I got from Colorado. Im having a blast with it .
thanks much. Heat treating the rocks happens before the knapping process, but it isn't always necessary either. Yeah, you will find that a good set of tools can make a big different. a screwdriver doesn't grab the stone very well.
With respect, I have to disagree with your reasoning,,in that, beveling is a sound method of material conservation. Bifacial resharpening wastes material,and you get a sharper edge by beveling. Also,,all knapping is not necessarily done on the thigh..I Knapp in the palm of my hand and can do so without putting any stress on the haft. This way you can get either a right or left hand bevel..I would suggest looking at the angle of the flake scars to determine whether it was done by a right or left handed person,because knapping in the hand allows you to direct the pressure at an angle and that shows right or left handedness regardless of the direction of the shaft. .l enjoy your videos and have picked up quite a bit of knowledge and information from you. Thank you for posting these in depth videos...
Weather by design or not a single bevel point does twist when it passes through tissue in turn causing a larger wound channel. That said i don't recall a single point I've ever found didn't have a least some twist to the cutting edges. I have a nice large single bevel point and know of another point nearly identical in size and shape found on the same knoll where i found mine.
I think you are correct about the bevel being determined by the dominant hand of the maker, HOWEVER, I don't think modern data will correspond to the ratio of left hand to right hand ancient points. The reason being that later societies placed an emphasis on right handedness and modern physical activities, particularly hand writing, are taught at a young age to be done right-handed and thus further influence hand dominance. Another example of society influencing handedness I'll point out is that Canadian hockey players use mostly left handed sticks, while players in the US use mostly right handed sticks. This is despite players in both countries being mostly right hand dominant and using the right hand for writing. Canadians believe that the dominant hand should control the butt end of the stick and are taught to do so at a very young age resulting in the need for left handed sticks. Hockey being less popular here, Americans are first taught how to swing a bat or golf club with the "weak" hand at the butt end of the shaft and then carry that over to how they handle a hockey stick, thus choosing a right handed stick. I know this is long winded but I just wanted to point out that the ratio of modern left/right handedness may not yield the evidence you are looking for despite your theory being correct, we just don't know if ancient people cared which hand was used or what factors influenced left/right dominance at that time.
I see. You're in the field, you need to retouch the edge, so you just pop some off the bottom of one edge, flip it and pop some off of the bottom of the other. So, you get the alternate bevel.
Could you not sharpen on both sides with the shaft behind you simply by doing the sharpening left-handed?
Very interesting
pics inbound. Have a Dalton appx 6" in length with a right hand bevel base and a left hand beveled edge. very cool looking blade
To suggest that single beveled stone points were accidental is certainly arrogant. Were you there when those single beveled were made and used?
On another note, while traveling around out west back in the early '70's, I acquired 5 or 6 very large chunks of Jasper Agate. The more colorful pieces got used for jewelry but I did pop off some flakes that became knives, dart points, and many arrow points. I did make single bevel points for arrows using a single bevel Atlatl Dart point as the model. Against the law to hunt with stone points in many states judging from the blood trail stones points are equal too if not vetter than stone points. Calling flaked stone tools "ptimitive" is somewhat arrogant. It takes much specialized skill to knap stone. Making atlatls and bows is easy by comparison.
I’m an arrowhead hunter/collector. Another theory is could be a hafted knife.
absolutely, and the more I look at this piece, the more and more I believe it to be a knife blade
If the pitch broke loose in the joint, would it be possible to heat the point by inserting the tip near/into the fire, and re-melt the pitch without damaging the sinew/shaft area? Just an idea instead of removing the point and completely re-working the attachment area.
yeah for sure. it's still a bit of an inconvenience to do so, but that certainly works
I found a Quartz Bolen bevel earlier this year. Still want pics?
I've always wondered why daltons are beveled on the right side and all other early archaic points are beveled on the left.
what's you favorite arrowhead style for hunting with an atlatl?
Please do an atlatl hunt.
Greetings from germany
I have several atlatl hunts on my channel already, but we certainly have more coming this year
@@huntprimitive9918
I have seen them all but I am admitted😂😉
I can't get enough
The dalton in my hand I found it’s Super Serrated have a video of it. It’s so thin like thin as a quarter
I find a lot or them thangz there Normally thin and serrated we would call that a kookaburra Dalton or thick and beveled.. we normally think that’s a knife. The ones That are crazy Serrated I think are atl atl darts. I live like a mile from the Sloan site it’s a Paleo man graveyard by the way. The sickest points in the world are from there.
By the way the cast Dalton you have The flint it is made out of is Crowleys ridge. I can mail you some if you’d like.I don’t nap but I know where good flint is anyways take it easy.
This also could be an argument that ambidexterity is a later genetic code than left handed right handed existence.
Could it make it stronger
If you hold the spear in front of you while resharping you will have a left hand bevel .
correct, and a lot of daltons specifically show a left sided bevel, but that also likely shows that they were being used on a removable foreshaft. having the spear out infront of you while sharpening increases the torque on the point and haft. I talk about that with the shaft being supported by my leg as I sharpen
Is the bevel edge stronger than a double bevel edge? do you have a formula for that glue?
I"d assume it is yes
ask people to hold up a coke can in the pic as well that way you can see if the writing is backwards or not. or something with commercial writing.
Know just the modern heads ur talkin bout ha ;)
You know you could use your right leg to sharpen the remaining 2 sides of it? You would need to use your left hand, but there is no evidence paleolithic people couldn't develop the skill to do it.
PRIMERO
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@HATER DO BLUEZAO SOS