I whole heartedly agree Andrew Marchant is one of the three nicest robot builders I've ever met in my life him, John Reid who I met at a historic touring car event that his brother Anthony was racing at and Zander rose (bumped into zander outside the bar/restaurant he's a owner of and talked about robot combat when I was on holiday in SF). But yeah Andrew is a legend.
As a kid, the series 6 final annoyed me SO much, but that's mostly because I loved Razer so much that I saw Robot Wars as little more than a vehicle to hand Razer more trophies. These days, teams adapting their robots to deal with their opponents is one of my favourite things to see.
Yeah Andrew Marchant was really nice when I met him at RoboNerd, I accidently left my RC Growler out as it started to rain and he put it under one of the tents for me while I was back at my car
It's a shame that Tornado will only be remembered by casual fans for the frame situation and that shouldn't be the sole reason why everything else it accomplished should be downplayed. It was a very reliable machine that was rarely knocked out via immobilisation and it was like a jackhammer in the arena constantly pounding on and on. When it returned to combat briefly in 2022, it still managed to hold its own against the modern day machines, all without any changes except for updated batteries which only slowed it down a bit. That's how good Tornado truly is and Andrew Marchant, along with David Gamble and Bryan Moss, deserve all the respect in the world for being able to create a robot like that, and like you said, Andrew is a top class guy who is very humble
It was a design that, if other people started to copy, would've killed the show quicker than Channel 5 did If you watch the season 1 behind the scenes documentary, you can tell the producers main fear is a series of "robot the bruce"'s, boxes on wheels that don't do anything entertaining. They ask Nemesis if they're gonna paint their cake box to be more visual and are pretty damn excited when the answer is they're gonna cover it with fur instead. Polka Dot fur lol The box on wheels approach is probably the most efficient and easiest way to win fights, just push your opponent around the arena and deny them control But it's not a TV show.
Tornado was also making modifications to their robot throughout the series, like against Anarchy where they put a giant spike on the front as opposed to the usual plow or disc. Razer also made a modification for this fight, so it still baffles me that people think making a modification was illegal. The real controversy in this fight is the pitting. If Tornado was ruled as being IN the pit, they would be considered immobilized and the fight would end on the spot. They were ruled as being suspended over the pit, however, which would lead to the 30 second count out that there wasn't enough time for. Both robots would be "mobile" at the end of the fight, and obviously Tornado dominated most of the fight and easily wins the judge's decision... ...however, there is a precedent for robots being suspended over the pit, specifically in series 4, Firestorm vs The Morgue. The Morgue was pushed onto the pit by Firestorm but was too long to fall in. It had no contact with the ground and couldn't move. Immediately after, Firestorm makes a blunder and drives fully into the pit themselves. In this case, The Morgue was deemed to have been pitted, and since Firestorm fell in second they were given the win, the exact opposite ruling to Tornado vs Razer. The only real difference between these fights is that Firestorm fully disengaged from The Morgue before falling in, while Razer was still in contact with Tornado. So what do I think about all this? I don't care, it really doesn't matter. It's been 20 years people, what's done is done. Accept it for what it is and find enjoyment from the titanic clash that happened in the fight as opposed to in the comments section. Even if you think Tornado was pitted they still didn't cheat, as it was the judges that made the decision. An argument now will change nothing, so instead just look back and remember how awesome Robot Wars was.
The only thing that I see to be debateable is whether or not you consider Tornado to be immobile considering it was suspended over the pit when time ran out. Had they not been suspended over the pit, I'd say they'd have won it fair and square as it was clearly the main aggressor in the fight.
I feel like because Razer was still holding onto Tornado, Tornado couldn't be deemed immobile or not. If Razer were able to let go, and back away, maybe Tornado would have been deemed immobile, although I seem to recall the front tyres of Tornado were still making contact with the edge of the pit so it's possible they could've dragged themself off of it if given a chance.
@@CJC_RW idk man, I would judge that fight in favour of Storm. If I'm gonna pick a guy to get scammed by a judge's decision though, Ed's near the top of the list. Storm deserved to win that fight, but Ed didn't deserve a Robot Wars championship.
Tornado didn't cheat, they adapted to their opponent and beat them. There's no such thing as a finished robot whenever you compete. Also just like in war, in order to win you have to adapt to whoever you're fighting and this appiles to Tornado, as they took drastic measures to beat Razer and Razer would just adapt to be a lifter to counter the Anti-Crusher Weapon (hence the Extreme 2 European Championship).
I'm happy Tornado was able to come up with a means of defense against Razer because it was reaching the point where it seemed like nobody could stop Razer. It's like trying to defeat Tom Brady or Patrick Mahomes in the Super Bowl. There has to be something to break the streak.
The judges made it clear that both Tornado and Razer were operating within the rules... Disgruntled Razer fanboys and fangirls needed to learn that you can't win them all.
You are totally right, they did not cheat and fair play to them for learning and making themselves razer proof! However, I find it crazy that making something that is bigger the pit that makes it impossible for a key part of the battles obsolete was not in the rules - that is my only qualm. Was fantastic design and its simplicity was genius. If the rules had been bent to make Razer win it would have been as big of a problem as AD21 in F1 haha. nobody would have ever forgiven the officials then either
or you get the "is razer still the best" fans, my favourites are the ones who say "Razer would have beaten tazbot in the RW arena" After watching the fight on youtube Noel Sharkey even said on twitter that Razer was completely outmatched by tazbot. Same with the tornado incident what tornado did was within the rules at the time.
Apparently they had an agreement with Merton they would only be drawn against each other in semi finals or higher, I get it in some respects Merton protecting their highest selling robots in regards to merchandise etc.
It would be anticlimactic. Both robots are just too powerful and neither would take risks against the other. That means either Hypnodisc would try to snipe the side and one-shot Razer, or Razer would grab Hypno, open the pit, and drop them in to end the fight as fast as possible. I highly doubt it would be some sort of all time classic fight.
@gengarisnotinsmash... I hardly doubt that tbh. If they had no choice, look what happened to Choas 2 against Razor. They would have had no choice but to fight. If they both went to the final in S3 or 4, etc.
Wheely Big Cheese was longer than the pit, but within the maximum allowed length. Nobody complained. S3 was wider than the pit, but within the maximum allowed width. Nobody complained. Tornado happened to do both, and people lost their minds. Go figure.
They changed the rules after Hydra vs Huge in Battlebots too. Solving your opponent's engineering shenanigans with your own should be legal but whatever.
I adore the the Razer Vs Tornado fight. I think you make a great point considering the alternative: if Tornado had got stomped for a third time, that would have been boring, and not just that, but think about the effect that would have had on Extreme 2 and Series 7: it would make the All-Stars even worse, we'd have some clearly second best robot in the European Championship, and we would miss out on a reigning champion in Series 7. And look what we got instead. All of the configs so common in Battlebots that you see today owe something to this fight right here, and Tornado fit the "wily veteran defending it's titel" archetype beautifully in Series 7 imo. Then there's the fight itself with Tornado absolutely battering a Razer that had utterly dominated Robot Wars for two years: that alone would make it a great fight, but it is shot into maybe the best one of the show as Razer recovers from a near-countout and we have the near-pitting and uncertainty around that.
Honestly, you can only be a hardcore classic RW fan once you understand that Tornado didn't cheat. Why you would want to stop evolution of configuration? It helps almost every weapon types to be on similar level playing field. It's kind of funny how this fight is one of the best that both these machines had. Sadly, discussing this isn't as fun as arguing for one bot over another on their merits in the actual bout.
I think it was exacerbated by the selection of House Robots for the final who ALSO were negated by Tornado's cage. If we had Killalot and Psycho or Growler in there they could have still done something to Tornado. As it was Tornado came into the fight basically invulnerable to every robot in there and I think THAT is what's made this stick for so long. There was no real path to victory for Razer in that fight and that's probably the real gripe.
Somewhere, 5 or 6 year old me is telling you that you're wrong, and Razer was cheated. But 27, nearly 28 year old me, honestly, couldn't give a rat's arse now. It's just funny to look back on now. 😂 I like the way you phrased it, though, Chris - It wasn't cheating, the judges ruled their actions to be legal, but perhaps it wasn't in the spirit of Robot Wars. But at the end of the day, Tornado had an opportunity to win the top prize, and they took it. And fair play, in that situation, if I was on Team Tornado, I'd have done the same. Still, at least we got to run it back one more time in Extreme 2 because it was so interesting the first time around. Even if it meant additional controversy as a result. Makes me wonder how Razer would have fared in Series 7, had they chosen to come back. Would they have tried to adapt to take on Tornado, and by extension Storm II? Even then Typhoon 2 would have been waiting for them.
It's a really interesting one regarding Razer in series 7. I definitely think it could have gone to the grand final but with the massive influx of consistently good flippers coming out of that series (M2, Atomic, Tsunami, Gravity etc.) I definitely think it would be a lot harder for them to stay amongst the top crop. Plus I definitely don't see it beating either Typhoon 2 OR X-Terminator lmao
100% agree 👍 Tornado never cheated. To fight Razer with no changes would've been insanity Tornado fought Razer twice with no changes and lost both times. So they needed to try something new to stand a better chance.
Team Tornado aren't at fault at all for this. The fault was with the rules themselves, having the build dimension limits being bigger than the pit. I'm personally of the opinion that, from a sporting perspective when making the rules, all robots 'should' be able to be eliminated via the pit. However that's also a two-edged sword, as if the build dimensions were the size of the pit, the likes of Wheely Big Cheese probably wouldn't have been allowed to compete due to its length. I think the better solution would've been to have made the pit a bit bigger rather than to shrink the build dimensions, and the Reboot arena did just that. But Team Tornado were perfectly fine to exploit and expose the poor rules at the time. The rules should have been changed after the loophole was exposed in my opinion, but that wouldn't have an effect on battles before the new rule was implemented. The change the rule makers 'did' make in response to this wasn't the right one. External attachments and defensive modifications should be allowed, as long as they don't exceed the hypothetical new build dimensions. Assuming the pit size remains unchanged, under those rules Tornado could still use a form of the anti-Razer cage, if say the rear overhang was removed to prevent the robot being too long while still having the same front reach to keep Razer away, and if it was a smidge narrower. Sure the robot would be more front-heavy, but the attachment would still work provided Tornado keeps its front or sides facing Razer, and it would also be able to fit in the pit making it legal by my rules. That's how I'd do it anyway. The main point is that it's the rules that were to blame, and not Tornado
Robot Wars is over man, we're gonna have to let it all go. Wider society barely remembers it along with The Crystal Maze and other nostalgic shows of their childhood but there's no new show on the horizon and even the live events are being hidden away from youtube where a new generation might find it to being put behind a paywall to milk the remaining coin from the last few fans they have left Tornado was boring and once it stopped using the vertical disc after S5 was probably one of the least entertaining bots in the sport (at least Storm had speed on its side), the irony is this is one of the few interesting fights it was ever involved in It wasn't cheating, it also was a one fight wonder as Razer had already come up with an anti-anti-razer hook and perfected it by the next time they fought (just needed better motors to not overheat when they did it) so this is all a storm in a teacup really But yeah, good luck trying to fan the flames of a 2002 controversy for views on youtube lol
Of course they didnt cheat. If they cheated then they woulda stopped the game. Its not about that and its not about nostalgia, it just felt unfair and bogus. Like you explocitly made it so razer couldnt use its weapon and couldnt even go into the pit. It just feels cheap and unfair
To be fair, Tornado used its frame three separate times, and in all three of those fights, Razer was still able to exploit it, managing to pick it up every single time. So it's not like it couldn't use its weapon.
Rules stated at the time that a robot had to into the pits. Just because the judges allowed it doesnt mean it wasmt against the rules. I watch fights back today and realise more amd more that not always was the case of the best fighter winning bit things were dont for entertainment reasons. Fornado team fought razor before and were given fair chance but like children cried they wernt let go. Iv spoken to alot of people amd the general opinion is razor won that fight as tornado were imobile over the pit. Their device was illegal 100% they just didnt have the robot or the skill to win other wise
We should be projecting our anger on the *other* box on wheels
What did Mr Nasty ever do to you, Chris
I whole heartedly agree Andrew Marchant is one of the three nicest robot builders I've ever met in my life him, John Reid who I met at a historic touring car event that his brother Anthony was racing at and Zander rose (bumped into zander outside the bar/restaurant he's a owner of and talked about robot combat when I was on holiday in SF). But yeah Andrew is a legend.
As a kid, the series 6 final annoyed me SO much, but that's mostly because I loved Razer so much that I saw Robot Wars as little more than a vehicle to hand Razer more trophies. These days, teams adapting their robots to deal with their opponents is one of my favourite things to see.
They would hate robot combat now if they still think adapting your robot against your opponent is cheating
they already hate robot combat now lmao
Yeah Andrew Marchant was really nice when I met him at RoboNerd, I accidently left my RC Growler out as it started to rain and he put it under one of the tents for me while I was back at my car
It's a shame that Tornado will only be remembered by casual fans for the frame situation and that shouldn't be the sole reason why everything else it accomplished should be downplayed. It was a very reliable machine that was rarely knocked out via immobilisation and it was like a jackhammer in the arena constantly pounding on and on. When it returned to combat briefly in 2022, it still managed to hold its own against the modern day machines, all without any changes except for updated batteries which only slowed it down a bit. That's how good Tornado truly is and Andrew Marchant, along with David Gamble and Bryan Moss, deserve all the respect in the world for being able to create a robot like that, and like you said, Andrew is a top class guy who is very humble
It was a design that, if other people started to copy, would've killed the show quicker than Channel 5 did
If you watch the season 1 behind the scenes documentary, you can tell the producers main fear is a series of "robot the bruce"'s, boxes on wheels that don't do anything entertaining.
They ask Nemesis if they're gonna paint their cake box to be more visual and are pretty damn excited when the answer is they're gonna cover it with fur instead. Polka Dot fur lol
The box on wheels approach is probably the most efficient and easiest way to win fights, just push your opponent around the arena and deny them control
But it's not a TV show.
Tornado was also making modifications to their robot throughout the series, like against Anarchy where they put a giant spike on the front as opposed to the usual plow or disc. Razer also made a modification for this fight, so it still baffles me that people think making a modification was illegal.
The real controversy in this fight is the pitting. If Tornado was ruled as being IN the pit, they would be considered immobilized and the fight would end on the spot. They were ruled as being suspended over the pit, however, which would lead to the 30 second count out that there wasn't enough time for. Both robots would be "mobile" at the end of the fight, and obviously Tornado dominated most of the fight and easily wins the judge's decision...
...however, there is a precedent for robots being suspended over the pit, specifically in series 4, Firestorm vs The Morgue. The Morgue was pushed onto the pit by Firestorm but was too long to fall in. It had no contact with the ground and couldn't move. Immediately after, Firestorm makes a blunder and drives fully into the pit themselves. In this case, The Morgue was deemed to have been pitted, and since Firestorm fell in second they were given the win, the exact opposite ruling to Tornado vs Razer. The only real difference between these fights is that Firestorm fully disengaged from The Morgue before falling in, while Razer was still in contact with Tornado.
So what do I think about all this? I don't care, it really doesn't matter. It's been 20 years people, what's done is done. Accept it for what it is and find enjoyment from the titanic clash that happened in the fight as opposed to in the comments section. Even if you think Tornado was pitted they still didn't cheat, as it was the judges that made the decision. An argument now will change nothing, so instead just look back and remember how awesome Robot Wars was.
The only thing that I see to be debateable is whether or not you consider Tornado to be immobile considering it was suspended over the pit when time ran out.
Had they not been suspended over the pit, I'd say they'd have won it fair and square as it was clearly the main aggressor in the fight.
I feel like because Razer was still holding onto Tornado, Tornado couldn't be deemed immobile or not.
If Razer were able to let go, and back away, maybe Tornado would have been deemed immobile, although I seem to recall the front tyres of Tornado were still making contact with the edge of the pit so it's possible they could've dragged themself off of it if given a chance.
@@NukeshotMedia Either way, it was definitely more fair than the Series 7 grand final! That was a joke!
@@KahnuevsKrake don't let ed hoppits propoganda fool you
@@CJC_RW idk man, I would judge that fight in favour of Storm. If I'm gonna pick a guy to get scammed by a judge's decision though, Ed's near the top of the list. Storm deserved to win that fight, but Ed didn't deserve a Robot Wars championship.
@ I would too but everything that came after that was wholly unnecessary
"Awww sh1t, here we go again!!!"
Tornado didn't cheat, they adapted to their opponent and beat them. There's no such thing as a finished robot whenever you compete. Also just like in war, in order to win you have to adapt to whoever you're fighting and this appiles to Tornado, as they took drastic measures to beat Razer and Razer would just adapt to be a lifter to counter the Anti-Crusher Weapon (hence the Extreme 2 European Championship).
I'm happy Tornado was able to come up with a means of defense against Razer because it was reaching the point where it seemed like nobody could stop Razer. It's like trying to defeat Tom Brady or Patrick Mahomes in the Super Bowl. There has to be something to break the streak.
The judges made it clear that both Tornado and Razer were operating within the rules... Disgruntled Razer fanboys and fangirls needed to learn that you can't win them all.
You are totally right, they did not cheat and fair play to them for learning and making themselves razer proof! However, I find it crazy that making something that is bigger the pit that makes it impossible for a key part of the battles obsolete was not in the rules - that is my only qualm. Was fantastic design and its simplicity was genius. If the rules had been bent to make Razer win it would have been as big of a problem as AD21 in F1 haha. nobody would have ever forgiven the officials then either
or you get the "is razer still the best" fans, my favourites are the ones who say "Razer would have beaten tazbot in the RW arena" After watching the fight on youtube Noel Sharkey even said on twitter that Razer was completely outmatched by tazbot. Same with the tornado incident what tornado did was within the rules at the time.
I wish we had got a Razor vs Hypnodisc fight. I wonder how that would of gone down
Apparently they had an agreement with Merton they would only be drawn against each other in semi finals or higher, I get it in some respects Merton protecting their highest selling robots in regards to merchandise etc.
@lewisb85 I remember seeing Razor Hypnodisc and Choas 2 at Sheffield all 3 were very polite and signed autographs for me
It would be anticlimactic. Both robots are just too powerful and neither would take risks against the other. That means either Hypnodisc would try to snipe the side and one-shot Razer, or Razer would grab Hypno, open the pit, and drop them in to end the fight as fast as possible. I highly doubt it would be some sort of all time classic fight.
@gengarisnotinsmash... I hardly doubt that tbh. If they had no choice, look what happened to Choas 2 against Razor. They would have had no choice but to fight. If they both went to the final in S3 or 4, etc.
Yep, Andrew was great when we met him
Wheely Big Cheese was longer than the pit, but within the maximum allowed length. Nobody complained.
S3 was wider than the pit, but within the maximum allowed width. Nobody complained.
Tornado happened to do both, and people lost their minds. Go figure.
They changed the rules after Hydra vs Huge in Battlebots too. Solving your opponent's engineering shenanigans with your own should be legal but whatever.
I adore the the Razer Vs Tornado fight. I think you make a great point considering the alternative: if Tornado had got stomped for a third time, that would have been boring, and not just that, but think about the effect that would have had on Extreme 2 and Series 7: it would make the All-Stars even worse, we'd have some clearly second best robot in the European Championship, and we would miss out on a reigning champion in Series 7.
And look what we got instead. All of the configs so common in Battlebots that you see today owe something to this fight right here, and Tornado fit the "wily veteran defending it's titel" archetype beautifully in Series 7 imo. Then there's the fight itself with Tornado absolutely battering a Razer that had utterly dominated Robot Wars for two years: that alone would make it a great fight, but it is shot into maybe the best one of the show as Razer recovers from a near-countout and we have the near-pitting and uncertainty around that.
Honestly, you can only be a hardcore classic RW fan once you understand that Tornado didn't cheat. Why you would want to stop evolution of configuration? It helps almost every weapon types to be on similar level playing field. It's kind of funny how this fight is one of the best that both these machines had. Sadly, discussing this isn't as fun as arguing for one bot over another on their merits in the actual bout.
I think it was exacerbated by the selection of House Robots for the final who ALSO were negated by Tornado's cage. If we had Killalot and Psycho or Growler in there they could have still done something to Tornado. As it was Tornado came into the fight basically invulnerable to every robot in there and I think THAT is what's made this stick for so long. There was no real path to victory for Razer in that fight and that's probably the real gripe.
Somewhere, 5 or 6 year old me is telling you that you're wrong, and Razer was cheated. But 27, nearly 28 year old me, honestly, couldn't give a rat's arse now. It's just funny to look back on now. 😂
I like the way you phrased it, though, Chris - It wasn't cheating, the judges ruled their actions to be legal, but perhaps it wasn't in the spirit of Robot Wars. But at the end of the day, Tornado had an opportunity to win the top prize, and they took it. And fair play, in that situation, if I was on Team Tornado, I'd have done the same.
Still, at least we got to run it back one more time in Extreme 2 because it was so interesting the first time around. Even if it meant additional controversy as a result.
Makes me wonder how Razer would have fared in Series 7, had they chosen to come back. Would they have tried to adapt to take on Tornado, and by extension Storm II? Even then Typhoon 2 would have been waiting for them.
It's a really interesting one regarding Razer in series 7. I definitely think it could have gone to the grand final but with the massive influx of consistently good flippers coming out of that series (M2, Atomic, Tsunami, Gravity etc.) I definitely think it would be a lot harder for them to stay amongst the top crop. Plus I definitely don't see it beating either Typhoon 2 OR X-Terminator lmao
100% agree 👍 Tornado never cheated. To fight Razer with no changes would've been insanity Tornado fought Razer twice with no changes and lost both times. So they needed to try something new to stand a better chance.
Team Tornado aren't at fault at all for this.
The fault was with the rules themselves, having the build dimension limits being bigger than the pit. I'm personally of the opinion that, from a sporting perspective when making the rules, all robots 'should' be able to be eliminated via the pit.
However that's also a two-edged sword, as if the build dimensions were the size of the pit, the likes of Wheely Big Cheese probably wouldn't have been allowed to compete due to its length.
I think the better solution would've been to have made the pit a bit bigger rather than to shrink the build dimensions, and the Reboot arena did just that.
But Team Tornado were perfectly fine to exploit and expose the poor rules at the time.
The rules should have been changed after the loophole was exposed in my opinion, but that wouldn't have an effect on battles before the new rule was implemented.
The change the rule makers 'did' make in response to this wasn't the right one. External attachments and defensive modifications should be allowed, as long as they don't exceed the hypothetical new build dimensions.
Assuming the pit size remains unchanged, under those rules Tornado could still use a form of the anti-Razer cage, if say the rear overhang was removed to prevent the robot being too long while still having the same front reach to keep Razer away, and if it was a smidge narrower.
Sure the robot would be more front-heavy, but the attachment would still work provided Tornado keeps its front or sides facing Razer, and it would also be able to fit in the pit making it legal by my rules.
That's how I'd do it anyway.
The main point is that it's the rules that were to blame, and not Tornado
Any robot being in a robotwars grandfinal .yes you want to win .coming 2nd is no disgrace
ultimately imo it would have been boring if they didnt "cheat" they fought razer twice before and it was boring the cage brought change and excitement
Tornado won fair and square
Robot Wars is over man, we're gonna have to let it all go. Wider society barely remembers it along with The Crystal Maze and other nostalgic shows of their childhood but there's no new show on the horizon and even the live events are being hidden away from youtube where a new generation might find it to being put behind a paywall to milk the remaining coin from the last few fans they have left
Tornado was boring and once it stopped using the vertical disc after S5 was probably one of the least entertaining bots in the sport (at least Storm had speed on its side), the irony is this is one of the few interesting fights it was ever involved in
It wasn't cheating, it also was a one fight wonder as Razer had already come up with an anti-anti-razer hook and perfected it by the next time they fought (just needed better motors to not overheat when they did it) so this is all a storm in a teacup really
But yeah, good luck trying to fan the flames of a 2002 controversy for views on youtube lol
@@cdname47 ...for views?
@@CJC_RW Ignore this idiot. He's a troll who always bleets about Tornado being boring and refuses point blank to let anyone else have an opinion.
Tornado beat Razer thrice.
God i hope we see some confused Razer fanboys raging in the comments 😈
Of course they didnt cheat. If they cheated then they woulda stopped the game. Its not about that and its not about nostalgia, it just felt unfair and bogus. Like you explocitly made it so razer couldnt use its weapon and couldnt even go into the pit. It just feels cheap and unfair
To be fair, Tornado used its frame three separate times, and in all three of those fights, Razer was still able to exploit it, managing to pick it up every single time. So it's not like it couldn't use its weapon.
Rules stated at the time that a robot had to into the pits. Just because the judges allowed it doesnt mean it wasmt against the rules. I watch fights back today and realise more amd more that not always was the case of the best fighter winning bit things were dont for entertainment reasons. Fornado team fought razor before and were given fair chance but like children cried they wernt let go. Iv spoken to alot of people amd the general opinion is razor won that fight as tornado were imobile over the pit. Their device was illegal 100% they just didnt have the robot or the skill to win other wise
@@matthewruss Show me where this rule is stated
Then by your logic, The Morgue should have been disqualified in Series 4.
Also, if it was illegal 100%, then why did the judges allow it?
No they didn't. Stop making stuff up to make an argument.