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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ค. 2024
- Dave video captured laying out his power supply PCB in real-time, and in this video speeds that up by 10 times and adds audio commentary over the top explaining his thought processes and techniques of how to layout a PCB.
- วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Dave is the Bob Ross of PCB Layout. I could drift off into peaceful slumber watching this art unfold. Truly an under appreciated artist of our our time. Happy little trees.
*PCB Design 101 Class Index*
5:35 "I still don't have a complete idea in my mind of where everything is going to go."
5:54 "..power traces"
6:30 'grouping components in blocks'
8:30 'goal is for top side traces as much as possible'
10:41 'traces running across the whole board can ruin your layout'
11:04 'grouping components in tight blocks'
11:34 'locking design elements added to the PCB is very important'
12:09 'separation of analogue section'
17:57 'you'll still notice I'm laying out traces on the top side of the board'
18:39 "..part of the art of PCB design... it's quite difficult to teach"
22:20 "..it's hard to explain how I route traces... (explains leaving traces that cross the board until last, then trace sizes/then wiring order of traces and modular building blocks)"
24:11 "used my first trace on the back side of the PCB" (followed by an explanation of the design principals involved)
27:49 'explains through hole versus SMD routing'
28:52 'double sided layout design compared to single sided with jumpers'
29:26 'routing the 5 volt rail/(drinking commentary)/vias for higher currents explained/(awkward pause)'
30:52 'net/design rules check explanation'
31:26 'explains the typical order of traces types to route first'
32:40 (after another rules check)..."'my goals at this stage are 0 errors" except for silk screen errors'
32:54 'only errors left are GROUND/saves ground for last/explanation of the division of the ground plane for power and signal sides of the board'
34:47 'designators'
35:55 (shows) "ground keep out" with vague explanation/followed by explanation of how and where the 2 Ground planes are joined
37:40 "checking solder mask expansion...that they are not going to break through...that there is enough clearance so the pads do not short out when hand or wave soldering"//followed by an explanation of clearances, and cost.
38:33 "this board is very course.."/10-10 design rules explained/"any manufacturer in the world could make this... I could make this at home."
39:34 "the power of 3d view..."
40:43 'drill hole consolidation addendum'/make your PCB cheaper by using a minimum number of hole sizes causing the manufacturer to change tools for things like metric and imperial hole sizes attached to components from various libraries'
45:05 'compares layout of a design that is integrated with user interface and enclosure versus one that is wired into the center of an enclosure'
46:55 '..split ground plane was probably not needed, but is a good general practice'
*Personal Favorites:*
27:14 "if your not using a snap grid, well, your crazy..."
18:12 "there's lots of stuff going on in my head which I can't... it's subconscious...it just magically works...that last trace just magically fits."
;-))
-Jake
yeah. Dave is trying to make it as complicated as hell. no worries.
I'm still learning the art of PCB. No one ever taught me; it is something I picked up on my own after viewing thousands of circuit boards over the years. So, I have an eye for good and bad layouts. But, that's like judging paintings but don't know how to paint. When I start a layout, I try to follow some simple steps... First, I attempt to group the components into smaller circuits. Next, I create GND and VCC rails around and down the middle of the board, so that all the smaller circuits can tap into them. I then run a series of auto-routing. Auto-routing is a good tool for me to use in the earlier stages of arranging components because it shows me what components are running across the board. Then once I've minimized the number of traces and vias, then I start routing by hand.
Dave definitely shows off his engineering chops in this Power Supply Design series. Until "going back in time" from where I first became aware of EEVblog, to here, I sort of thought Brother Dave only did Teardowns and Mailbags. Very glad to see Dave is a damn good engineer on multiple levels!
Dave is an experienced engineer who dun half know his shit I'm surprised even watching the mail bags n teardowns it shows thru, can't you tell??? 🤔🤨
+EEVBLOG
Dave, you remind me of a Bob Ross for Electrical Artistry. We'll just put a happy little resistor here...
you are awesome dude! :D
I hope to make a career out of this type of work. This fascinates me. I can tell I would love and be good at this. I have that whole spacial relations aptitude.
Don't know why it took me this long to subscribe, but I love your informative videos.
Trust me, I'm an engineer!
What the fuck did just happened here?
During these 2903 seconds, I've learned about PCB design as much as ever before.
Thank You Dave, I finished my apprenticeship in Australia in 1987, Radio and TV serviceman (Digital) last thing I remember was programming a 6502 uc, your videos are awesome for getting back in touch with the latest and greatest, and bringing electronics out of the closet... Beauty mate...
I think I will tell my wife this is the new Sim City. Think she will do a pretty good job :D
Best way to outsource PCB routing.
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@Angel Quinn Instablaster =)
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@Ben Aaron it did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. I am so happy:D
Thanks so much you saved my account!
@DFCad1 CAD users would pay you directly for a top quality autorouter that worked with existing PCB tools, like for example, ELECTRA. Seriously, if you think you can do it, then you can make millions. There are companies that just do Autorouters.
There are so many permutations with PCB design, it's simply not possible to have a autorouter do every design 100%, and any PCB professional knows this. Good qaulity Autorouters are of great value if you spend the time to set them up on complex boards.
Really enjoyed this video, provided me with a lot of thinking material for when I lay out the circuit I'm designing. Looking forward to seeing the next video.
I find this so enjoyable to watch, it's just like a puzzle.
PCB design has always been huge fun for me, but it has also cost me many sleepless nights. Then I think, how lucky we are today where we have software to do it for us. Way back in the early 80s I used to see our electronics engineers standing at drawing boards with peaces of tape sticking it to a huge transparency. That is how they plotted their PC boards. The personal computer had just made it's entry but there was no software that one could use to plot a PCB or create Gerber files to send to the manufacturer. That transparency with all that tape on it was the Gerber file. There was no Net checking software. We had to have a prototype PCB etched and sit there with a diagram and a multi-meter and check each net one by one. Now, If we found any mistakes we would send the the board and the diagram back to the engineers so that he could rip off some tape and add new tape to correct the mistake. Then back to the PCB manufacturer again for a new prototype...... and so it went on.
I should say, before they even plotted a PCB, they would give me a diagram (Hand drawn) which I would prototype on a breadboard. I would then give them the all OK or point out any mistakes they had made and make suggestions to them to consider. I would suggest, replace AND with OR or something like that. They used to hate me and love me. They didn't like making mistakes :)
Thanks for the video Dave, really interesting as always !
Thanks Dave for going to the extra trouble to record your layout and then producing the audio track. Nicely done
utik anek kercel
Great video Dave! I have learned much from your narrative and watching your technique.
Thanks for the commentary. Very helpful!!!
Really enjoyed that. Good job Dave!
Hi Dave, Nice going and a great series thus far.
George
Brilliant. Learned loads watching that!
woohooo. another ripper video. this has been really helpful for getting me started with my project. just having a solid example like this has answered lots of vague unformy questions i had in my mind. soothes the anxiety. there it goes. ahh.
I have never even tinned the end of a wire and I find this fascinating, designing a circuit board is actually an art form in my opinion
@EEVblog Thanks Dave... Much respect on the quick answer
Good job Dave!!!
I have just started doing single sided PCB, this is beautiful.
Dave, you always impress me and this was 2012, In 2020, I am still staring Boz eyed into a mirror to reverse a paper layout I have made while looking at my schematic onto a Copper clad board with a Dalo Etch resist pen, before warming up Ferric Chloride in my kitchen.
Since my late forties, my vision started to let me down I must confess to a few cock-ups, yes I have used a diamond-tipped engraver to break a track and I have used copper slug repellent tape from the garden centre to install a track where one was needed.
Learned so much watching this. Thanks 😊
that's a great idea of doing it modular and outside of the board, thanks!
Thanks David. Great video.
You are an artist sir!!
I didn't realize that this was X10 times speed until you mentioned it after almost 20 min. I was starting to be convinced that you are an alien Dave.
Sounds like someone wasn't paying attention 0:22
When desinging a board or watching somebody do another board. Its always beautiful art! :) Love to assemble some boards under microscope that are some pieces of art itself! :D
I look at boards as art. Some I even hang on the wall. And like art, some works are better than others.
really informative serie thx for this. I've always neglected the bottom layer and a ground plane and also power traces width, diff pairs etc. I have a couple of boards I need to redesign now.
@jfernandmy I did that because it's easier, and they both had to go to the same place. The package allows you to do that if you highlight both traces and drag. Same with busses etc. Nice spotting.
Nice video.. Layouting the boards is highly intuitive process, that can't really be explained easily. One learns it during year, and gets to make it visually pleasing.
THANKS!
@EEVblog Haha, I usually just stay away. I know that I can do things better and gets things exactly the way I want. Thanks for the tip, Dave.
"Yes, it's very expensive. I am aware of that." - He surely is. Brilliant!
Great video!
Nice video, keep it up, thanks for sharing :)
@jimbobg65 The problem with the perpetual license is that you are stuck with whatever version you get at the time, you don't get bug fixes unless you are on yearly subscription.
So it's pot luck, some releases are excellent and quite stable, others are bug ridden and quite unstable.
Very informative video, thanks!
I did my fist smd board some time ago, and I had a hard time figuring out what grid size to use, I ended up laying out a lot of the traces on free hand. Are there any standard to follow?
@Maverus Only if they are carry data. In this case they just set the DC level for charger ID detection.
Great video Dave! Looking forward to seeing next one!
Short question; how do you group these components and internal routing in modules? Do you use rooms for that?
@Maverus If assembled with a properly designed commercial thermal oven, then placement and heat sinking shouldn't be an issue, so you'd group them together usually. Your assembler will know how to program the thermal ovens temperature profile to handle this.
@martyfriedman666 More plated through area to handle the current. Yes about the split track. I think I remove/change that in the REV B board.
Hey Dave, very nice video! Just one question: Sometimes you routed two traces at the same time, like a pair coming from the serial connector, did you treat them like a differential pair or something like that? or it was just easier to route them in pair? Im a newbie and Ive heard something about differential pairs, so I wanted to know why did you do that. Thanks!
@EEVblog i often use the auto route feature... to see how many flies i can catch on my monitor
How did you make the oval holes for the DC in connector? Not very many overnight PCB houses can/will make those oval holes. In cases where they would upcharge, would you recommend just going with big circular holes and filling with solder?
@zaprodk Ah, forgot to mention that. The heatsink doesn't support TO-220 properly, so they are set back the pins can be bent.
@ryanlgy95 Yep, that's the idea. Originally a kit of parts, but now thinking at least a fully built PCB + kit for the case etc.
@shades2 It's a general use lab power supply.
Hey Dave, I got a question for you about PCB layout, if you don't mind. If you had to lay down several D-pak components would you group these into a central location or spread them throughout the board, even if they constitute a module, say voltage reg or power supply for the board. I had an issue were soldering and contact became a problem, i think it is because they sucked up the heat as well. Gimme you thoughts.
Dave, I've been wating for this video in the bench psu series! Thanks! You mention that you used two vias when changing layers with the high current trace. Is that to reduce/inductance and trace impedance? or just because it means more plated thru hole to handle the current? Also, at 31:47 You route a trace around a mounting hole and split it to go both sides. Also to help with the high currents since the wider trace wouldn't fit either side i assume yes? That's a handy trick. Thanks Dave!
question? do you have a video on soldering microchips to boards? i bought a nano accelerometer for inertial navigation as a back up for loss of gps but they are very small and the pads are really tiny??
Great video Dave! I would like to work with Altium Designer instead of Eagle ,which I like to call "advanced (MS) paint", because it's so circuitous to work with. Even when the layout get's a bit more complex. I've asked Altium if I can get a student-license. Yes of course I can, but this will cost me about 140 Euros (173 AUD) per year.
Dave, did you set up your design rules before this? Also, do you every use the Autorouting features?
As Dave says, through hole is handy because you can jump tracks with resistors. The thing is axial components are generally variable length. So they can be 0.4" or 0.8" or even 1" if you have enough wire lead. I guess that doesn't matter but when I did small layouts manually it was very easy to arrange. Can Eagle or Altium make components longer on the fly?
how much do you reckon you'll sell these kits for. i might consider one if they're reasonably priced, the analogue one i made is OK it just makes a slight hiss on the sig tracer at full volume no preamp and you get a bit of wiper noise adjusting the voltage pot. it has 5 preset voltages set with multi-turn trim pots and constant current settings which i've trimmed to within about half to 1%, the constant current is handy for testing LEDs and doing crude 4 wire resistance measurements
Hey Dave...
One more thing, do you have to do EMC for kits like these ? Also, if you get some time, could you do an EMC video ?
@sabamacx That would be nice, but the current RevB design doesn't leave much room for that.
Great! .. Really Helpful .. Thanks al lot :D
Great video Dave!
I was wondering if you could explain USB, especially for chargers, for example explain what the resistors on the data lines do?
Greetings from Iceland (Wow the other side of the world!)
-Bjarni
At about minute 40, the screen suddenly goes gray until the ending credits. I've tried refreshing my browser, going to a different video and coming back. If I hover over the progress bar, it shows a thumbnail of the PCB, as if that's what I should see. What's the deal?
Same for me, gray screen in the last quarter of this video
Dave, have you ever tried a 3DConnexion controller with Altium Designer?
I know that altium have like autorouter but does it have "autoplacer"? So you just define shape and size of the board click a button and software will automaticly place components and route traces?
@hendor79 Yes, I have one, they are awesome. Everyone at Altium used them.
"If you're not using a snap-grid, then you're crazy! You should be!" heheh Love it!
Does it make coffee
@EEVblog Is this for general purpose use, or is it for a specific purpose?
Trying to make a custom version of the vesc 4. There is a lot to learn.
XXXX Cellllll Ent!! Thanks. Love this stuff. Great info.
good video :-) it is interesting to see: every layouter has some short of "hand writting" in his pcbs. (and signatur, I like the small animals and this stuff on pcbs that are showing, that actually one designer designed it from scratch to layout.
You just scared the crap out of me. Quite a board for a PSU.
did you mention zero ohm resistors as an extra layer?
@EEVblog What's missing in his idea is the shear magnitude of different possibilities with each board. High voltage, analog, low voltage, impedance dependencies, resistance dependencies, so on. By the time you customize the rule structure, you'd have the board near finished anyways. Part variances alone and the shear number of differences between various parts would make it incredibly difficult to program an algorithm. Not to mention bloat the program and slow the system down to a crawl
@jimarcin Not a fan of rooms for something simple like this. That's useful for bigger multi-channel designs though. In this case I just manually gathered components as needed. Takes all of a few minutes work.
I will be happy to se a comparation of your result and the autorouter result.
@kildas Yes it does, but the autoplacer does not work. No autoplacer works.
@EEVblog Cool. Thanks. Looks good. :)
Is it too late to add "zones" or "regions" performing a certain task to the silkscreen? That is, a big box around an area that is the microcontroller (and associated bits), a big box around the micro-current, etc?
Well, that really depends on what value you're getting from it. I suspect that what you actually mean, is that you can get free and open source software, that will do the job just as well.
@jfernandmy I might be able to answer this. Dave doesn't appear to be using the differential pairing feature here, but simply routing both traces simultaneously to save time.
Hi Dave. I just have finished designing my PCB to my minisumo robot .It's already maufacturing but I wonder if you could just take a look at it and tell if it has any 'glarning' bugs..? It has unusual shape and I think you may find it interesting :)
Sorry for english and.. thanks!
Simon
This board works.. Rules are..calculate current capacity... Thermally critic components should far away from important ics and caps.. Usage sockets should be placed to ideal places..
The ground plane should always be on botton or does not matter?
around 22:15 all the layers except the top suddenly go grey and transparent-ish. How do you do that?
@kkd89 Yes, highly recommended listening. The answer is no, it's not a problem.
Did you try Proteus autorouting and etc...?
Do you use vias at all to cool components?
You know what I think would be a nice project to build, a !2v PSU, connected to to a car battery and use a few switching regulators to supply the power... (in case of power out)
What is the reasoning of using mostly through-hole parts? About to get started on Altium power electronics PCB, and do through hole parts help with noise? Or probably just power rating?
+Sam Korn He probably did it for ease of assembly. I have soldered alot of smd parts though and i don't find it hard after some practice. You can in fact get in surface mount resistors with power ratings up to 250W !!!!
www.digikey.com/product-search/en?pv2=12&pv2=17&pv2=544&pv2=81&pv2=13&pv2=14&pv2=126&pv2=127&pv2=15&pv2=121&FV=fff40001%2Cfff800e9&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25
+Sam Korn Its going to be a kit, you wouldn't give a beginner a bunch of SMD components to soldier at home, trough hole are much easier
Hi Dave,
there is a Open Hardware Logo on your PSU PCB. I am curious to mess around with the PSU design and I am using AD, too. Do you offer the design data for download ? I like to share my AD designs too as you can see on my channel or on my homepage. (Sorry, my homepage is german, but the pictures and videos tell the story, too.)
@clickfix Any grid size is better than freehand!
looks nice do you know of any good sits for building charge controlers for solar and wind. I like to build my own and beable to have a charge controler that will different things like build a APC unite like a batterie back up for a PC but instead of a PC for an home.
@SajjadBro I recorded at 1 frame per second.
vote: Hivoltage power supply Dave style!!
@TheElectr0nicus Yep, and you can't produce anything commercial with it, and once you finish school you have to pay full price.
R43.. Why oh why?! :D Great job Dave!
R17 & R19 😁
Martin Skorunka
It's PCB design, not OCD lol !
Martin Skorunka
Now I'll wake up at 3am in a cold sweat!
Are you likely to mass produce this Dave? If you were, I would be very keen to purchase one.
Hi Dave. I know the power supply is designed for 1A but I'm interesting how much current the bigger traces can handle?
A lot. There are many online PCB trace calculators online that implement the IPC-2221 standard formulas. 1mm traces can carry 2.5 amps a few inches with tens of mV drop. Copper is outrageously conductive.
Is this PCB available to buy, or the design available to get the PCB made? If love to have a go at building this PSU.