If there's one thing this video shows, it's that to NEVER attempt to climb under or through a stationary train at a grade crossing or indeed anywhere, as clearly, it CAN move very suddenly, without warning and, as here at some speed. Don't be a Darwin Candidate. Great raw train action, thanks for the video.
That’s exactly right. My god, just the thought of attempting to crawl underneath that train, and then it suddenly begins to move as you’re underneath it… that’s beyond terrifying
Great video and very weird situation! Out of 5 MRL SD70ACes, only one as rear helper!? After 4100 failed, they used 2 rear helpers! 109 cars, at least half empty! Poor performance of MRL crew! Nice to see NS C6M leading empty coal in Montana. On NS "every train have UP and BNSF power. NS is short on power. I've seen 4646 brand new rebuild. Goes slowly, rebuild program! 👍🏻👍🏻😎🙋🏻♂️
When I railroaded if a "run" at a climb was considered we would begin the run a goodly distance from the foot of the climb....a few miles. Terribly embarrassing to fail. No chance to back down, would double the hill.
Yes, that's a drama if one remains to lie. But if the train breaks down on a slope, it's a much bigger drama. Thanks for showing. Greetings from Berlin/ Germany. Sven
@@DieselTech8 Yep. We were on MRL with an AAPRCO special with 11 cars and 1 + Amtrak locos and stalled out. I say 1+ because the second one was having problems when it got to Denver and they took the one we were to have and stuck us with the bum one. We were already on the cars generators to get the load off the locos as our speed continued to drop until we stalled out. MRL had added an extra SD-40 on the front of the following freight in case that happened. The crew of the freight asked if they could just cut all the head end locos off their freight and come up and push. The dispatcher made it very clear that they were only to take the lead SD-40 and come up to push. We went up the grade after that doing 40 MPH with the SD-40 shoving on the rear car which had been cleared of all passengers. We were mid-train so got a good view of everything going on on every curve. Been over 20 years ago now but the curve in the beginning was very familiar. The fun of mountain railroading.
Man yeah, good catch! Right place at the right time. If there's a weak link in a train it'll probably be found on Mullan Pass. I don't know if this was the East slope, or West, but either side is a steep grade by rail standards and you can see it in the video. Thanks for sharing.
When the head end rolls past the camera in reverse, you can hear the Dynamic Brakes engaged. The trains wheels turning actually generates electricity through the traction motors and is used to slow the consist. The extreme heat that it generates is dissipated through the cooling fans you see on the top of the locomotives.
What I took away from this video is don’t get caught on a snowy hill with 4 dash 9’s blowing smoke 💨 and no EMD Mac or ace on the headend or somebody’s gonna be walking. I woulda just cranked the 5 emd helpers up and made that consist snatch a wheelie over that hill and stop jerking around using one damn loco helper on the rear when there’s 5 connected. But that’s just me lol
@@DieselTech8 30 April at the Civic Center. I will be on the main floor in the NE corner, as usual. Livingston's show is the 22nd of April at the depot.
It seems ‘Holy, crap!’ moments are universal. 😵💫 Obviously, there’s a lot more involved in getting a train going again in a situation like this than many, including me, realize. Looks to me like they made the best of what they had to work with. No shame whatsoever, IMO. And you, AJ? Talk about being at the right place at the right time… Wow! 👍🏻
really nice catch. i live in illinois near rochelle. we dont get much action like this. both the UP and BNSF run thru here but the land is so flat we dont ever even get stalls. i just hit the sub button and im looking forward to more of these. great job.
At one point, MRL had a three tiered “shelf” next to the crossing at Austin at the bottom of the loops; and on it were a dozen or more knuckles waiting to be used. Because, chances you’ll break one soon enough.
Rookie engineer ?? Might see this happen for sometime if BN does not retain the MRL engineers for awhile. Nice catch on that second train. Rare to see NS power in these mountains. Much less leading a BNSF train!!
As someone who's run Tehachapi for more years than I care to think about, going up is the easy part, put it in 8 and stay awake. Going down, well that depends.
What is the purpose of having all thoes engines tied on to the back and only 1 is online...do you know how much stress that engine is under that's stupid to me they are clearly going up a good grade and only 1 pusher in the back online..is the railroad being CHEAP trying to save on diesel fuel
Excellent good video, Maestro. Cold weather and a locomotive will not do his job. Yes and then trough the mountains. That means problems.🚆👺👿. Greet from Zandvoort the Netherlands 🇾🇪🇺🇸.
@@DieselTech8 I found this online: The former MRL will become the MRL Subdivision of BNSF’s Montana Division. BNSF has pledged to retain all of MRL’s 1,200 union and non-union employees in their current jobs, with similar pay, benefits, and seniority, and has reached agreements with the labor unions representing MRL employees.
Only one of the 5 trailing locomotives online? So it's dragging 4 dead locomotives in addition to the manifest. Gee, wonder why it had trouble making the hill.
BNSF trains are too long and they try to drive so more economic. But the main problem is the oil is too cheap and carbon dioxide they never heard. And they fear the electrification costs.
I've seen engines in the middle of long trains but never in the back. How do they keep the knuckles all pulling one direction when some engines are pushing?
Anyone know what's causing the noise at 28:44? I often hear this strange noise when trains are climbing a steep hill moving slowly. Sounds like a whistle/squeal....
Can I ask a question, as a non-Engineer but as a mechanical engineer. If there are five helpers, what's the upside to only have one engine online? Surely that just puts a ton of strain on all the knuckles because you've not only got all the car-weight but you're also pulling the four offline engines. What am I missing? Isn't the point of adding 5 helper engines to give that additional power to negotiate the hill not to be extra dead-weight?
If you have too much force pushing on the rear of the train, you can derail lighter cars at the rear of the train. Think of it like trying to push a piece of string.
What radio do you use to listen in on their chatter, the scanner I have at home (home base unit) will pick them up at the laurel yard but if like bto have something mobile.
@@DieselTech8 105$ that's not too bad.i was actually thinking on heading up there this Friday,do some poking around a bit and see what's there.i do a lot of chasing the Milwaukee railroad stuff normally but railroad passes are always cool
@@DieselTech8 ya I've chased it from Baker all the way out past butte lol, been on many of the sidings ,crossed many bridges and in some tunnels, gonna go from st Regis to st Marie Idaho on the grade this june
Something tells me that there is a very tricky balance of very heavy stuff going on here. In engineering, everything is a spring. My guess is with trains, everything is a string. Being pulled and pushed from both ends, uphill and down hill. Try pushing a string uphill without buckling it. And when the lead engines crest, they need to start decelerating while the helper engines are still accelerating. Don't bend or break that string! Thanks!
If there's one thing this video shows, it's that to NEVER attempt to climb under or through a stationary train at a grade crossing or indeed anywhere, as clearly, it CAN move very suddenly, without warning and, as here at some speed. Don't be a Darwin Candidate. Great raw train action, thanks for the video.
It looked as though he sped the video up.
That’s exactly right. My god, just the thought of attempting to crawl underneath that train, and then it suddenly begins to move as you’re underneath it… that’s beyond terrifying
Is Jack London around somewhere?
should have had all the helpers turn on.
what state is this?
Montana
Why didn't they bring those other DPUs online??
Great video and very weird situation!
Out of 5 MRL SD70ACes, only one as rear helper!? After 4100 failed, they used 2 rear helpers!
109 cars, at least half empty!
Poor performance of MRL crew!
Nice to see NS C6M leading empty coal in Montana. On NS "every train have UP and BNSF power. NS is short on power. I've seen 4646 brand new rebuild. Goes slowly, rebuild program!
👍🏻👍🏻😎🙋🏻♂️
When I railroaded if a "run" at a climb was considered we would begin the run a goodly distance from the foot of the climb....a few miles. Terribly embarrassing to fail. No chance to back down, would double the hill.
Yes, that's a drama if one remains to lie. But if the train breaks down on a slope, it's a much bigger drama. Thanks for showing. Greetings from Berlin/ Germany. Sven
Glad you enjoyed the show!
There were a couple of times I thought those empty centerbeams were gonna tee pee up and come off the track
I told you the slack action was hard!
That was no joke!
when i seen those empty centerbeams backing down the hill i was holding my breath.
Oh it was definitely an experience. Slack action caught me by surprise a couple times.
One of the best train videos I have seen in a long time, Thanks! ;-)
Thank you for watching. Glad you enjoyed it.
Why did I watch all of this???? Oh, cause it was oddly fascinating and in a weird way relaxing. Thank random TH-cam suggestion! :D
In NP days, the standard helper out of Helena was a pair of GP9's. Of course, trains were not as heavy as they are today.
Wow I did not know that.
Interesting how a helper set of 5 only has 1 running.
I think 3 are running
@@nigelslade5276 nope only the 4300 is under load.
@@DieselTech8 Hi ! Do you know why they dont use all the locos at end of the train??? All this power will push this train uphill in a hurry :)
@@Ferrosteph There are rules on how much lower a train can have and too much power on the end can cause the train to derail.
@@DieselTech8 Yep. We were on MRL with an AAPRCO special with 11 cars and 1 + Amtrak locos and stalled out. I say 1+ because the second one was having problems when it got to Denver and they took the one we were to have and stuck us with the bum one. We were already on the cars generators to get the load off the locos as our speed continued to drop until we stalled out. MRL had added an extra SD-40 on the front of the following freight in case that happened. The crew of the freight asked if they could just cut all the head end locos off their freight and come up and push. The dispatcher made it very clear that they were only to take the lead SD-40 and come up to push. We went up the grade after that doing 40 MPH with the SD-40 shoving on the rear car which had been cleared of all passengers. We were mid-train so got a good view of everything going on on every curve. Been over 20 years ago now but the curve in the beginning was very familiar. The fun of mountain railroading.
My God !!
Nice video ❤❤❤❤
Man yeah, good catch! Right place at the right time. If there's a weak link in a train it'll probably be found on Mullan Pass. I don't know if this was the East slope, or West, but either side is a steep grade by rail standards and you can see it in the video. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you. This was filmed on the East slope of the pass at 2.2%. The West slope is 1.4%.
Not a railroader here but how do engines going backward stop that massive train and start forward? Air brakes?
When the head end rolls past the camera in reverse, you can hear the Dynamic Brakes engaged. The trains wheels turning actually generates electricity through the traction motors and is used to slow the consist. The extreme heat that it generates is dissipated through the cooling fans you see on the top of the locomotives.
What I took away from this video is don’t get caught on a snowy hill with 4 dash 9’s blowing smoke 💨 and no EMD Mac or ace on the headend or somebody’s gonna be walking. I woulda just cranked the 5 emd helpers up and made that consist snatch a wheelie over that hill and stop jerking around using one damn loco helper on the rear when there’s 5 connected. But that’s just me lol
Great catch! Are you planning to be at the Helena Railfair? I plan to be there as usual.
I live in Helena. When is the Railfair?
@@DieselTech8 30 April at the Civic Center. I will be on the main floor in the NE corner, as usual. Livingston's show is the 22nd of April at the depot.
@@BadlandNP awesome, I mill make sure to mark my calendar.
@@DieselTech8 Sounds good, look me up! I'll be wearing a black stetson.
Wie lang ist dieser Zug?
It seems ‘Holy, crap!’ moments are universal. 😵💫 Obviously, there’s a lot more involved in getting a train going again in a situation like this than many, including me, realize. Looks to me like they made the best of what they had to work with. No shame whatsoever, IMO. And you, AJ? Talk about being at the right place at the right time… Wow! 👍🏻
Thank you. I have been very fortunate a couple time up on the pass.
Probably feels pretty lonely when you're on a pass like that and have trouble such as this!
really nice catch. i live in illinois near rochelle. we dont get much action like this. both the UP and BNSF run thru here but the land is so flat we dont ever even get stalls. i just hit the sub button and im looking forward to more of these. great job.
Glad you enjoyed the show and thank you. As time allows, I get up on the pass as much as I can.
At one point, MRL had a three tiered “shelf” next to the crossing at Austin at the bottom of the loops; and on it were a dozen or more knuckles waiting to be used. Because, chances you’ll break one soon enough.
all of that slack and empty centerbeams in the middle, I was waiting for them to stack it up like loaves of bread on a shelf.
Too much tractive effort behind empty cars can easily wad them up and make a real mess.
Rookie engineer ?? Might see this happen for sometime if BN does not retain the MRL engineers for awhile. Nice catch on that second train. Rare to see NS power in these mountains. Much less leading a BNSF train!!
As the train passes the signal either your camera angle or my eye sees the train going down hill.
What kind of courage does it take to work on a grade like this? Kudos to the engineers!
As someone who's run Tehachapi for more years than I care to think about, going up is the easy part, put it in 8 and stay awake. Going down, well that depends.
What is the purpose of having all thoes engines tied on to the back and only 1 is online...do you know how much stress that engine is under that's stupid to me they are clearly going up a good grade and only 1 pusher in the back online..is the railroad being CHEAP trying to save on diesel fuel
Notch 8 is notch 8. Not really any more stress on the unit unless you’re stalled out, and not like it’s 100 degrees out here right now either.
Man, a lot of that is just what you call unlucky timing but BNSF needs to do more maintenance checks
On there cars. Great video and shots tho!
Some weak knuckles you can not find until they break.
So little knowledge but so many that seem to have so many suggestions. . . . 😂
My thoughts exactly.
Excellent good video, Maestro.
Cold weather and a locomotive will not do his job. Yes and then trough the mountains. That means problems.🚆👺👿.
Greet from Zandvoort the Netherlands 🇾🇪🇺🇸.
Thank you very much. My Grandfather is originally from the Netherlands.
Excellent catch Austin. Great video
Sad to see the MRL locos going away.. It was always fun to watch them in MSO. Good thing I do like BNSF though..
I am sure MRL colors will be around for a while.
Where are they going?
@@repro7780 BNSF has bought out MRL. Eventually they’ll go away but it’s not like they’re going to do it tomorrow.
@@DieselTech8 I found this online: The former MRL will become the MRL Subdivision of BNSF’s Montana Division. BNSF has pledged to retain all of MRL’s 1,200 union and non-union employees in their current jobs, with similar pay, benefits, and seniority, and has reached agreements with the labor unions representing MRL employees.
If 4300 the only running locomotive at the rear then what’s the point on adding more rail link locomotive to the rear if they are not online?
That's exactly what I said. That's like having 1.6 million pounds roughly just sitting there not helping at all
It all has to do with allowable power by the FRA
Sometimes power needs to be moved too.
man those dynamics are screaminggggg
FNBS Continuously improving by striving to do the right thing safely and efficiently.
FNBS LMAO. Not a fan eh?
What is the reason for the lattice work carriages?
Finished lumber.
Only one of the 5 trailing locomotives online? So it's dragging 4 dead locomotives in addition to the manifest. Gee, wonder why it had trouble making the hill.
BNSF trains are too long and they try to drive so more economic. But the main problem is the oil is too cheap and carbon dioxide they never heard. And they fear the electrification costs.
That took some big cajones standing close to that train while she was getting backed down to go forward again
When it said only MRL 4300 was online that was good recipe for a runaway
Seems they should have placed more helpers on line…..but that’s just me….also amazed they didn’t pop more knuckles
Lugar muito bonito Mullan Pass
Just a question why don’t they have any as dpu’s in the middle?
I swear this is not a live video of me trying to start a heavy train on a grade in Run 8!
So BNSF has PSR too the world is full of greed Hunter is laffing his ass off now
Why don't they bring some additional helpers online on the set at the rear to get going
Fantastic video!
Thank you. I am glad you enjoyed it.
They're lucky they didn't get knuckle after knuckle.
Awesome catch
Thank you.
I saw a hobo on the grain trailer. It's have been shoestring.
All that power at the end fire those puppies up
In the 1960s I was a brakeman on the NP, Rocky Mountain Division, out of Missoula. I know Mullan Pass. Thanks for the memories!
Man I would love to bend your ear about the good ole days.
Why is 4300 the only one of the helpers online?
I've seen engines in the middle of long trains but never in the back. How do they keep the knuckles all pulling one direction when some engines are pushing?
It is due to the tonnage of the train that depends on where the helpers are placed.
Anyone know what's causing the noise at 28:44? I often hear this strange noise when trains are climbing a steep hill moving slowly. Sounds like a whistle/squeal....
Wheelslip? Idk
fab 4 engines pulling
They changed out a knuckle that fast? They carry spares??
I guess.
Wait😶23😶😨😰😰😰😰😰😰😰
Wow...with 5 DPU's....still struggles!
Only one is running.
What does "pulled a knuckle" mean?
Pulled knuckle is another term used to describe a broken coupler.
Great vid. Would have been nice to hear the radio chatter
I had the radio close to the camera but the wind was drowning out the chatter.
Foamerville
Can I ask a question, as a non-Engineer but as a mechanical engineer. If there are five helpers, what's the upside to only have one engine online? Surely that just puts a ton of strain on all the knuckles because you've not only got all the car-weight but you're also pulling the four offline engines. What am I missing? Isn't the point of adding 5 helper engines to give that additional power to negotiate the hill not to be extra dead-weight?
If you have too much force pushing on the rear of the train, you can derail lighter cars at the rear of the train. Think of it like trying to push a piece of string.
@@DieselTech8 That much I did know, Austin but it seemed like most of the weight was at the rear. Thanks for the info though.
@@mostlyinterested1016 your welcome. There are also FRA rules on horsepower placement in a train etc.
@@DieselTech8 Again, a great answer. Not my area of expertise. I appreciate the info.
What radio do you use to listen in on their chatter, the scanner I have at home (home base unit) will pick them up at the laurel yard but if like bto have something mobile.
Uniden BC125AT with a Diamond RH77CA antenna.
@@DieselTech8 105$ that's not too bad.i was actually thinking on heading up there this Friday,do some poking around a bit and see what's there.i do a lot of chasing the Milwaukee railroad stuff normally but railroad passes are always cool
@@MontanaDirtRoads I am a big fan of the Milwaukee Road as well.
@@DieselTech8 ya I've chased it from Baker all the way out past butte lol, been on many of the sidings ,crossed many bridges and in some tunnels, gonna go from st Regis to st Marie Idaho on the grade this june
Not gonna make it up, kids where not deserving to go.
Vacation to visit AJ!!
When should I except you?
Mid July would be great, thats roughly our plan to pass through
Not exactly the smartest engineer in the world!
@Jack Norman have you operated trains on a mountain grade before?
Something tells me that there is a very tricky balance of very heavy stuff going on here. In engineering, everything is a spring. My guess is with trains, everything is a string. Being pulled and pushed from both ends, uphill and down hill. Try pushing a string uphill without buckling it. And when the lead engines crest, they need to start decelerating while the helper engines are still accelerating. Don't bend or break that string! Thanks!