This Water Pipe Killed All 129 Men
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ย. 2023
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Thanks for watching.
If you enjoyed this video and would like to watch more videos from this channel without any ads, consider joining our Patreon.
The link is in the description.
You can join for free or select a membership with benefits ranging from ad free videos through to early access and live q and a calls.
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Literally any sort of still or video is 'actual footage'. The label says exactly nothing mate. 😆
@@nvelsen1975 so clever
How do you / US Navy know specifics about Thresher's demise?
Assumptions I get, but you talked in specifics.
Small error 7:53 layers of water of different temperature have different density and affect speed of sound waves, not radio waves. it can cause sound waves to reflect from that layer
😊😊😊😊😊
“Having been lost at sea Thresher is not decommissioned by the U.S. Navy and remains on eternal patrol” That last line was so haunting. I’ve heard the story of Thresher before but never in such detail. Well done. An honor to those 129 souls who I hope are at peace.
May they find a safe harbour one day.
My same reaction. Chilling and moving.
The only ones at peace are the ones who accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior
Yeah, their still out there.
@@nitdiver5 religious people try not to ruin everything by needlessly pushing their religion impossible challenge
I'll never forget the day it happened. My father worked at the shipyard for 15 years. He knew many of the sailors on board. He came home early that day, a broken man. I was only 5 yrs old at the time, but could clearly see he was in a lot of pain. He was a welder on the Thresher, and never knew what caused it to go down.....
There is no way on earth anyone could get me to even board such a craft..
Sorry to hear that. I'm sure it was particularly rough considering he worked on it and this type of information wasn't available to confirm it wasn't something he contributed to that may have led to catastrophe. Having nearly doubled its test depth before imploding (initial reports had it closer to test depth), I'm sure the welding on the Thresher was more than adequate. My father also worked at the shipyard many years later, and my best friend's father was a welder there, too. Not sure if he worked on ships, but he put up huge radio antennas in his yard, which was pretty cool.
When something like this happens, I think of these sad, but brave words. ALL GAVE SOME.....SOME GAVE ALL. RIP BRAVE SAILORS
@@Rosco-P.Coldchainsubmariners are indeed a different breed. Few friends are submariners. As an air controller (whose job is to find subs) you can imagine the banter between us over a few drinks. Always a good time
:( I really hope he never tried to carry any blame, there's millions of variables in these things operating, it's a miracle we don't have many more tragedies across the board globally with submersibles, a testament to how insanely well these things are built, that's terrible, man, sorry.
You always see ex-submariners collectively grieve for the lives lost in incidents, even the enemy's! They're a whole breed of their own and all seem to be well aware of the immense risks.
When I was in high school one of my best friends brother went into the Navy and became an Electronics Technician. He went through boot camp, ET school, and sub school with another sailor who became his best friend. They both received orders to report for duty on the Thresher as radio operators. They were super happy to be able to serve on the same boat. However shortly before they were to report for duty my friends brother was given a last minute change of orders and did not sail on the Thresher. His buddy left and never came back. Very sad this had to happen.
This is a true story, I was the sub commander.
I'm using Starbucks wifi down here to write this comment.
@@HaggisMuncher-69-420
WTF?!?
Is that the Sebastians or Squidwards Starbucks?
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Come to Jesus Christ today
Jesus Christ is only way to heaven
Repent and follow him today seek his heart Jesus Christ can fill the emptiness he can fill the void
Heaven and hell is real cone to the loving savior today
Today is the day of salvation tomorrow might be to late come to the loving savior today
John 3:16-21
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Mark 1.15
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Hebrews 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Jesus
An ET works with the nuclear plant on a sub not a radio operator. Bs story
My father Marcus had pneumonia and was in the hospital April 63 or he would had been on the Thresher and i would not had a little sister. RIP to all his old ship mate's
Geez I can’t imagine the survivor’s guilt. I’m glad your father survived.
6 wives n alcohol helped him
Imagine being the guy at the boatyard that left the strainers in....
Read the comments above yours .
This channel deserves more subs. Preferably not the imploding kind.
🤣
Don’t worry man; this channel is growing exponentially. I lined a few months ago when he was under 20K.
Very clever
This comment deserves more likes
Quality
Before I retired I worked in a UK nuclear submarine shipyard. I clearly remember some twenty years ago a meeting being called by Management for the whole department to attend a meeting in the conference room. There was first a brief introductory statement that we should all listen carefully to the following audio recording, nothing more was added. What we heard was the sound recorded by Skylark of USS Thresher breaking up when she went below her test depth.
The purpose of the meeting was to stress that what do every day could have a massive impact on the safety of the subs under construction, no matter how innocuous the job might appear. It made a lasting impression on the whole department.
Wow, I can only imagine that had quite the impact!
God
Wow!
I was on a fast boat out of Groton 1999-2003. We did a shipyard maintenance period 2002 or so, at the Portsmouth yard in Kittery, ME. The scuttlebutt was the last ship to go through the yard at the same frantic pace was the Thresher. Lots and lots of very dark humor to cope.
The last year I was on the boat, I carried a ziplock baggie on me anytime we were underway. I always had a lite notebook with me, as well as a pen. My plan was, in the event of a sinking, I could jot a quick note to my loved ones about just how much I hated the navy (and also goodbye if there was time) and then seal my notebook into the baggie. My thought was if they dived the wreck to recover bodies they'd find the notebook and folks would know how I felt. I don't know if this would have actually worked, but it made me feel better.
Worked on the Alex at NSSF NLON. I was a QAS, so we wrote your SUBSAFE release letter a few times. I heard about that shipyard period as I retired in 2000 in Groton.
sarah7 • Nobody cares about your notes. All they care is if you're alive or dead.
The rest is just useless idealism.
A few years after your death people tend to their lives with their daily problems and their own worries, and you're sadly forgotten.
It is sad, but that's all there is in real life.
I hated working with guys like you, who spent all their time hating the navy and letting everyone know all the time. You made everyone more miserable. I hope you grew up.
You're an amazing storyteller, you make 17min feel like 5
Thanks, I really appreciate that
Only the best storytellers have the ability to warp our perception of time and he’s one of them. I agree!
It’s the British accent.
@sforza209 actually I’m South African 😀
Unlike my IT professor who made 45 minutes feel like 5 years
I've seen different videos about this subject, and one of the things I adore about watching different creators is that each of you focuses in on different things. I love how you clearly explain the mechanics here, especially for someone like me, who's completely hopeless at some of these subjects.
Thanks. I do my best to create a clear picture. Good to hear when it works
I'm shocked that they let that type of welding dilemma continue, it's just insane... what did Rickover say?
If he talked about the 129 guys your mom killed, this vid would be called "The Thrush'er" 😉
Other creators be like "A pipe burst. Flooding the room. No one knows why, idk." @@waterlinestories
Not that I've watched that many vids on this disaster, but this is the first time any mention of the strainers has been made. All of this possibly quite preventable if only those strainers had been removed before sea trials. So sad.
I love your videos; please keep up the great work.
If the strainers had been removed
If the engineering officer on duty had trained to perform a fast restart and/or continue using residual steam to power propulsion
If the sub had been trimmed positive
the last item is a huge one. modern procedures for proceeding at extreme depth call for trimming the ballast tanks so that the sub will surface, and then using the diving planes to maintain depth. In this configuration, a loss of power results in the sub ascending, even if only slowly.
As with most disasters of this nature, a lot of things all had to go wrong for the result we got. Most of them are things which would be anywhere from a major inconvenience to an unnoticed anomaly, if they had happened in isolation. Add them all up, and they sum to disaster.
@ShuRugal The positive trimming is a great example of learning from our mistakes. It would have taken a very smart individual to come up with that positive trim configuration before we experienced this terrible loss of life
This is the perfect example of learning from mistakes
I wonder if the maintenance personnel were ever informed they were the reason the sub sank.
I've wondered that myself. I have to believe that whoever installed the strainers had to realize that it could have been the reason the sub went down. What a horrible thing to live with.@@PumpernickelBread25
‘Remains on eternal patrol’. That’s so very poignant. ☹️
The Flying Dutchman now has a sub on his fleet oof
The only small mercy is that it was so quick.
That is so, with regards the implosion but the mental anguish when we’ll below test depth and still going down, would have horrendous. RIP, those poor souls 😢.
It wasn't quick. They knew exactly what was happening and what was about to happen. They could only stand there and wait for oblivion.
@@joeyvanostrand3655, the actual death was quick, as you well know.
@@johnnunn8688unless it is to be believed that at least someone still lived for those pings that *may* have came from the thresher that the seawolf documented in it’s ship logs.
Or,
The underwater phone where the seawolf’s crew swore could hear communications for a brief, brief moment.
Chances are these were interferences but it would be tragic to know there may have been someone alive.
An updated report has been released. The crew did not infact die instantly.
This is a passage about scorpion, the only other us nuclear lost at sea written by Michael Cochrane one of the navy reservists who were responsible for the declassification proceedings for both scorpion and thresher. He was also a structural engineer.
While the loss of the USS Thresher is well documented and investigated, the amount of information on the Scorpion was very limited. For many years I wondered what happened to the boat. There have been 3 main theories; 1) a mishap in the torpedo room that caused a torpedo to begin running and the crew was not successful in shutting it down before it armed and exploded, 2) a hydrogen explosion in the battery well (located at the bottom of the Operations Compartment [edit 11/05/2022]) due to salt water intrusion or battery failure, and 3) attack by Soviet ships “nearby” (up to a few hundred miles away) who had managed to track the Scorpion on her transit back to the US. There are many other theories that I consider unlikely or not plausible. Unlike the loss of the Thresher, there were no other vessels in the vicinity of the Scorpion, so we will likely never know for 100% certain the cause of the Scorpion’s loss.
In the spring of 1998, I was in the Navy Reserve assigned to a Naval Sea Systems Command unit supporting the Submarine program, primarily the Deep Submergence area. While performing my annual 2-week active duty, I was asked to attend a meeting at the Pentagon. The Chief of Naval Operations (CNO) had determined that with the passage of time (35 years for Thresher and 30 years for Scorpion) and public interest, a project was initiated to review and declassify (with use of redaction) all the information and materials related to the loss of both ships and put them in the public domain or be accessible via Freedom of Information Act requests. More specifically, much of this effort was to be done by Navy Reserve personnel. I had the privilege of leading a team of Reservists to work primarily at the Navy Historical Center located at the Washington Navy Yard. For me, this was a dream assignment. The CNO had directed that material held by various Navy commands on both Scorpion and Thresher be sent to the Historical Center. The folks at the Historical Center were great and assisted our team in showing us where all the records were located, how to use their equipment and marking up document copies for declassification and redaction, where applicable.
Our team carefully reviewed all the documents, audio recordings (from the Sound Surveillance System (SOSUS) arrays) and thousands of pictures. We also made a trip to Portsmouth (NH) Naval Shipyard to review their records since they held construction records for both Thresher and Scorpion. The photographs and investigation reports very interesting and enlightening. The quality of the photos (black and white) of the wreckage sites was amazingly good considering the camera was attached to a ship over 2 miles up on the surface.
Based on review of the reports, photos and video taken by [edit 4/1/2019] Dr. Ballard of Woods Hole (MA), it looked to me that the battery well explosion is the most plausible cause for the loss of the Scorpion. In addition to the photos and investigation reports, my shipboard experience included carrying out inspections of the battery well looking for leakage, helped form my conclusion of a battery well explosion. In addition, Scorpion was still following battery charging procedures more applicable to earlier diesel-electric submarines. Following Scorpion’s loss, the NAVSHIPS Technical Manual for nuclear submarine battery charging was extensively revised to reflect how the on board batteries are employed on a nuclear submarine versus a diesel-electric sub. [Edit 11/05/2022] The main concern associated with battery charging is that hydrogen gas is generated as part of the charging process and needs to be closely monitored to ensure it does not increase to flammable or explosive levels in the battery well. On board ship, another concern was always ensuring seawater did not get into the battery well, or more specifically the battery cells. Seawater mixed with the electrolyte will generate hydrogen gas, which can be flammable or explosive depending on the concentration. Photographic and video evidence showed that the Operations compartment decking at the forward end of the compartment was thrust up indicating some kind of trauma at or near the forward end of the compartment. I’ve seen a report published some years after the project was completed, the information released, including photos and SOSUS recordings were reanalyzed using modern equipment and technology. The report concluded that a battery well explosion was the most likely cause of the Scorpion’s loss. Two individual explosions captured on SOSUS recordings were able to be pinpointed to 2 individual precursor explosions with a calculated energy pulse equivalent to battery cells (nuclear submarine battery is made up of 100+ battery cells). Further SOSUS recordings picked up tank and compartment implosions following the initiating explosions, which was tagged to the battery well explosion. The theory of a torpedo mishap was considered less likely based on evidence of destruction in the Operations Compartment. It is interesting that the Bow Compartment (the Torpedo Room is located in the Bow Compartment) escape trunk hatch was found to be open. This may have occurred if there was an explosion of low yield in the Torpedo Room or may have occurred due to increasing seawater pressure as the Scorpion sank. The theory of an attack by a Soviet vessel was ruled out based on records that there were no Soviet vessels in the area, with the closest ones being over 400 miles away at the time when the Scorpion was lost.
April 24, 2018 update: Found a really great article that provides a lot more detailed discussion that strongly supports the battery explosion theory for the loss of Scorpion with information from a very experienced and intelligent guy who was there and did that when it comes to analysis of underwater sound recordings.
Link: www.bonefishbase.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/2012_October_Periscope-Scorpion.pdf Read pages 1 and 16-24 for the full article.
November 5, 2022 update: An article was published in the 2nd quarter 2021 issue of the American Submariner magazine published by the United States Submarine Veterans Inc (USSVI) and written by a Bruce Rule, a retired Naval officer and expert in undersea sounds and interpretation of underwater sound recordings. Based on review of of the original SOSUS and other recordings, he concluded that the most likely cause for Scorpion’s loss was due to battery cell explosions. The pressure pulse from the explosions very likely either killed or rendered unconscious the crew and the sub began its dive to the sea floor. The link below takes you the magazine and the Scorpion article starts on page 13.
www.tjcbase.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/AS2021Q2V1.pdf
Thank you for the info.
Very interesting and informative. Tears for the crew.
Interesting bro. Thank you for your time and the links.
Very interesting, thankyou so much for typing that all out and for the interesting information. May all the crew members rest in peace.
Thank you for the Information💖
Why did the Navy do these test dives in ocean so much deeper than the maximum dive depth? Why wouldn't they do them where the sea floor is only trivial deeper than the predicted maximum dive depth?
My guess: Shallow ocean depth means near shore. Perhaps because it’s a nuclear sub they chose a site far from populated areas?
Also it’s hard to be spied on in the middle of the ocean. 🤷♂️
@@himssendol6512 yeah it didn't stop Howard Hughes
Exactly what I was thinking
@@himssendol6512It's easier to be spied on by another sub in the open ocean. If you test closeer to shore you could be in your own territorial waters and within your rights to attack any mysterious, unidentified intruders.
Nuclear subs are powerful enough to capsize and/or pull smaller vessels below the water, it happened to the royal navy twice iirc. So it makes sense they stay away from areas where fishing vessels might frequent.
My father was an Submariner at this time. He had friends on the Thresher and had Orders to the Scorpion before his father got sick and he took humanitarian leave. Talk about dodging a bullet. There is a lot of wild theories for both the Thresher and Scorpion on why and how they went down some saying the Russian did it, and I even heard one person say the Skipper of the Thresher scuttled it on purpose. I will buy my father's beliefs and the Thresher went down because of piss poor QA and maintenence and the why being push to get her back out to sea. My father was on a refit of a Submarine. They were given a XX number of months to get the Submarine back out to sea. The crew was pushed to do it in 2/3 the amounted time even pushing for half the time. As he said "a Submarine sitting in dry dock is useless to the Navy" push push push.
Thanks for sharing
Why would Thresher's CO want to scuttle her? And, for that matter, how? It's not like it's an airplane where one pilot can lock the other out of the cockpit and crash it without interference. He'd have to get most of the senior staff to go along with him.
theory makes sense to me.the scorpion though is interesting
@@subduedreader5627 I know right now. CRAZY statement that individual made it. Like I said I will buy my father's theory. The crew was pushed to hard and fast taken short cuts. One crew member asked to be transferred off the Thresher and it was granted there by saving his life. What he didn't expect was sitting in front of Navy Mishap Board of Inquiry.
@@carl112466 Fair enough, I was hoping that they had explained their theory to you since it came so far out of left field.
Thank you for your detailed analysis of this tragic disaster. It seems like another case of 'learning from mistakes' as happened with the Russian Kursk sub. The trouble is that hundreds of lives are lost in the process. Very sad.
And not that many people should have been aboard on the test dive
I cannot understand why silver soldered copper pipes and fittings are used, particularly on larger diameters, where it will be difficult to get the solder to correctly flow. In many ways, solvent welded heavy gauge plastic would be better. However, whatever material is used, at all points of sea water entry a bolted manifold should directly feed one or more integral shut off valves.
With the decades of submarine construction, a failsafe method should have been designed and strictly adhered to. Correct design need not involve additional costs.
Water should not be piped through electrical equipment areas. It is all about correct design from the outset, rather than equipment being an afterthought.
Alas, the aviation industry is pretty much the same.
@@wilsjaneerr right
Progress rarely happens without mistakes. It is very sad for the innocent victims sacrificed.
The submarine you refer to as the Cavella is actually the USS Cavalla. She is currently preserved as a museum ship at the Galveston Naval Museum in Galveston, Texas.
I live in Galveston and I can confirm this to be a fact.
I’ve been on her. Beautiful vessel, lots of history. There’s also the destroyer escort USS Sampson next to her.
I've been entranced by the Thresher's loss since it went down while I was in the same high school as Capt. Harvey graduated from, and was part of the memorial service attended by his wife, also a graduate. This is the clearest explanation of her loss I've seen. Thank you.
Thanks, that means a lot to me
I'm a serious Thresher Head and try to watch and read everything I can find on the subject. This is a rare example of someone at least giving proper time to the SOSUS analysis, which I personally think is conclusive, but still we hear about the 'burst pipe'. I have a handful of nits but won't air them, as this is a very well done, serious video with great archival footage.
Thanks, I appreciate that. Happy to hear the nits though… always fascinating when someone with a stronger grip on the subject chimes in.
please give us the nits
@@TreCayUltimateLife ok, I’ll watch it again and revert
sosus
@@fergalohearga9594so what now?
Your work is absolutely amazing
👍🏻
Best, most succinct, and thorough coverage of the Thresher - time well spent.
Where were you when I was trying to learn history in grade school??
🤣
After refit on the east coast, the boats usually head to Norfolk or Charleston for supplies, personnel etc. I was engineer on a research vessel carrying sensitive listening devices off Norfolk in the 80s as one of these boats (subs are always boats) went thru sea trials. Seeing a sub surface after an emergency blow, the black bow shoot out and then back down onto the surface is a sight I’ll never forget. Blowing down air tanks aboard my boat to rid water, drain lines instantly become ice cold
It's even more wild being on one when they do an EMBT blow. :)
Exceptionally well told. First time I’ve heard the details of this tragedy. So sad 😢
As a former US Navy Nuclear Reactor Operator and Electronics Technician, and a currently licensed Senior Reactor Operator in commercial nuclear power, I had obviously learned about Thresher. I was not aware that at the time, no fast recovery startup procedure was in place. I was born 20 years after the Thresher disaster, so clearly a lot of changes had been made, but when I was in the Navy, fast recovery startups were something we did frequently for training, so the crew would be prepared to perform one when needed. Because of my background and training, it's almost mind-boggling to me that there was no provision for this at that time. In my time in the Navy, we routinely performed normal startups, for the normal shipboard operations, but fast recovery startups were performed for training periodically to keep the operators proficient. Fast recovery startups are significantly faster to get the reactor back online. That is just one more thing that could have potentially saved the Thresher.
The watt things are done today is because of lessons learned in the past. Thanks for sharing
Not only were there no fast recovery start ups, the main steam valves would automatically shut... and they could only be opened manually, which was not a fast process.
@@michaelwalimaa1806 As far as the MSIVs are concerned, I am used to them closing automatically on a SCRAM, at least on the Navy plants I qualified on and operated. The plant I initially trained and qualified on, as well as the ship I served on were both designed to shut MSIVs automatically on a SCRAM. We still had fast recovery start-up procedures we would implement when needed (or for training). I do not believe that having to manually reopen the MSIVs caused any real delays. We had personnel reopening MSIVs at the same time as we were withdrawing control rods to start up the reactor, so it didn't really slow anything down. I don't know if newer ships are designed differently to keep the MSIVs open.
Something that is sort of interesting, is that the commercial plant where I work now, does not have an automatic closure of MSIVs for a reactor trip. We have other signals that will close the MSIVs for various accident scenarios, but on just a normal reactor trip, our MSIVs do not go closed. And we certainly do not do fast recovery startups on the commercial plant, because we aren't in danger of sinking or needing to outrun torpedos, lol. Our first/normal method of shut down cooling is provided by automatically dumping steam to our condenser on a trip, so our MSIVs stay open. We have relief valves to dump steam to the atmosphere if the MSIVs do go closed, however, but we typically prefer to keep MSIVs open as long as we can.
@pyronuc yep modern boats do not trip shut the MSIVs on scram. Weird that they used to
why is it that the standard procedure after a reactor failure is to isolate the steam which could potentially be used as an alternative power for propulsion?
A young man that worked for me one summer doing construction has recently joined the navy. I was informed today he is going to a crew member on a submarine. When I heard the news I was super excited for him and proud he was doing great things. But now... now I'm worried snd wish he would still work helping my crew hang drywall. Justin young man I hope you grow better and better as a man. Your sister and mother are super proud of you as am I.
While still very dangerous, submarines are much safer than the thresher. I served on them and now work at one of the shipyards that build them. I refuse to put my name on paperwork if I won't go out on a boat myself. The way I see it, I got no business asking a father to go out on a machine that I won't.
Made my week when I saw you uploaded a new video! Brilliant work as always - thank you for telling this story with this much detail - profoundly interesting!
Thanks. Welcome back
I served onboard a sub tender, and I was on high anxiety alert the two times I had to go aboard a sub to do any troubleshooting! God bless those folks because under the sea is not for me.
Oh shit this one is really haunting, waterline stories is the 🐐
Agreed! This channel is always very informative and interesting to watch!
Thanks, I really appreciate that
The primary cooling , piping was changed, to STAINLESS, TIG welding, Replaced "Brazing", of joints. Worked 'SUBSAFE" attack subs 638, & 688.
Best and most pertinent comment yet.
This explanation is much clearer than any other reports I've read about the Thresher. Top job, as usual. 👍
An excellent analysis of the issues that were faced by the ill-fated crew of that submarine. It is true that in most human endeavours the rules and procedures surrounding them are written in blood.
I’d heard this story before, but haven’t seen anyone give this level of detail. This was great!
I first learnt about this sad event from brick immortar channel last year. Your account of the story is equally brilliant and takes an even deeper dive into the events leading up to the tragedy...
RIP to all the 129souls... and the last part about Thresher being considered on "eternal patrol" is chilling..
It’s sad whenever there is a loss of life like this. It’s devastating for someone to be on their 1st run only for it to be their last.
Such excellent information. I really enjoy your voice. You are a handsome guy
The minutes that elapsed as the sub gradually sank to twice its test depth must've been dreadfully harrowing for the crew...
I instantly started crying when you mentioned that vessels lost at sea remain on eternal patrol.
An extremely sad but fitting designation.
Amazing how one comment can be a window into the grief of hundreds of thousands of lives lost in simply doing their jobs in service of their country.
The channel Sub Brief did a video on a report that challenges the instant implosion theory called "37 Pings."
The gist of the report being that the explosive noise was actually the reactor catastrophically failing, and Thresher was at neutral buoyancy just above crush depth running on battery power for some time while the crew struggled with hypothermia and radiation.
Anyone know if that report is confirmed? It's a horrific lesson in safety culture either way, but damn. I didn't think this story could get sadder.
edit: 37 pings, not 29.
It's the now declassified official report. The reality is that the crew were alive for quite a while, despite what they told to the public at the time.
PS
It's 37 pings
The Seawolf report was considered during the original investigation and was concluded to be wrong and probably caused by interference due to ongoing search activities. It's important to note that ALL the other evidence, including the state of the wreck, SOSUS acoustic data, data from Skylark, etc is consistent with Thresher exceeding test depth and imploding shortly after it lost communication and inconsistent with the theory presented by SubBrief.
@@misarthim6538It was declassified report not subbrief theory?
@@janipt The declassified report only said what Seawolf reported they heard. What it WAS or how it was interpreted, that was SubBrief (or someone else's) theory.
@@misarthim6538 Ok my bad 👍
This is some of the best analysis and information regarding the Thresher tragedy that I've heard. Great job. Love the use of actual photos and your cadence is spot on.
Thanks, I really appreciate that
*I was in the 1st grade when this happened. Even at that young age, it never left my memory.* 🙏
I first learned about the loss of the USS Thresher in one of Robert Ballard’s books. It’s very interesting and thought provoking story (sadly, non-fiction), and really was a watershed (no pun intended) moment in submarine development. You’ve explained it very well, as always, and it’s a very important story to share.
Its so astounding to me that nobody in the US Navy, at this time, realized the inherent risk in conducting sea trials on a brand new, untested nuclear submarine in water that was so far beyond the vessel's crush depth... RIP to the brave officers and men of the USS Thresher.
The Thresher was not intended to go beyond its Safe Depth. When systems broke it descended lower. I've seen pictures of Thresher on the sea floor: squashed flat like flattened tin cans. I used to live in SE NH. They've done Memorial Services on anniversary years.
@@carlcushmanhybels8159 Yes I understand that it was never the plan for Thresher to dive that deep, beyond her theoretical test depth and then beyond her crush depth. I was referring to the fact that the Navy chose to conduct the sea trials in water that had a depth far exceeding the vessel's crush depth. Nowadays these sort of sea trials would be conducted in much more shallow coastal waters, so that, in the event of another catastrophic loss of power/propulsion, the sub can just sink to the ocean floor and safely rest there instead of sinking to a depth beyond her crush depth and implode. My original comment was just lamenting the fact that it took the deaths of 129 men to get the Navy to realize something that should have been gravely apparent all along.
Wasn’t brand new although it was a recent build. Sea trials took her N Atlantic and all over Caribbean.
The Thresher was the start of the SubSafe program. All X31 Shipyard Mechanics as well as all X shops in any Naval Yard are aware of how SubSafe works because of Thresher and Admiral Rickover. It was drilled into us on a daily basis. Pipe brazing was fine back in the Diesel boat era but not for Nucs. Welding the pipes was key to the success of SubSafe. Procedures and methods were developed to accomplish this.
I just turned 13 when this happened and remember it well. It was very upsetting and sad, especially when the explanation of what happened with the icing came out. Thanks for the video.
I remember when in grammar school, our principal visited our classroom to inform us of the Thresher's loss and that our flag would be flying at half staff. Many in our class, who were around age 8, didn't really understand the gravity of the situation, other than seeing how saddened our teacher and principal were. It was only about seven months later that the principal revisited our classroom to inform us of the loss of our President. A very traumatic and difficult time for all of us.
I thought this was a really good explanation of the chain of events -- thank you. I've never forgotten the Thresher; may those aboard rest in peace.
I was also in elementary school in New London . I had classmates with parents on the thresher when it went down . They did not make an announcement that day probably out of respect for the kids .
Seen plenty of vids on the Thresher , this is the first giving a Clear description of what possibly went Wrong ..Great vid.
My father worked on this boat as an electrical engineer contractor out of New Orleans. He was on it 2 days before it went down. He lost many friends that day.
I’ve been trying to work out why I love your channel so much.. I really think it’s your story telling abilities mixed with a well written script..
Great job 👏
Thanks. 👍🏻
I must agree you are a wonderful story teller. Thank you
Great presentation.
Rest in Peace
I think you do an interesting job of covering the history of Thresher. I had watched Sub Brief's take on the scenario, and I figured you would have a hard time competing with USN nuclear sub veteran, I had not heard some of the details you included - nice woirk!
Your voice is different that usual here.
Calm and straight forward, without too much expressions.
Perfect.
Served on USS GATO (SSN-615) in the 70's, which was a boat of the same class. We drilled on fast SCRAM recovery almost weekly, and had been backfitted to be 'SUBSAFE' certified.
Compliments on a well written documentary of the accident without oversensationalizing. Yes, there are two competing theories and we may never know the whole story.
Thanks for sharing. 👍🏻
An incredible narration and story about a terrible event.
The albacore is down the street in Portsmouth NH and in Kittery Maine is a flag pole that stands for the men lost in the thresher, one foot for every soul.
Bravo Zulu. Well done. I have tears in my eyes as I write this. I grew up in Rhode Island, and I painfully recall the kids that missed school after this. Eternal Rest, Grant Them O Lord.
Wait, what. I had a friend in the Navy who was a member of the crew of the Thresher. The only reasn he didn't go down with his crew members is that coming back from leave, he was late for the final dive and was on the pier watching as the sub left harbor.
He told me that it was a problem with the ballast air frezing in the line and cutting off the blowing of ballast to surface. He said the problem had occured previously while he was on board but the momentum of the sub allowed it to reach the point where the expading air in th ballast tanks allowed the sub to surface. He figured that the air line had frozen again but the sub was unable to reach the expanding air threshold, so the sub came to a stop and began to sink, whereapon the air in the ballast tanks began to be unable to stop the dive to the bottom.
Thanks that’s useful to understand
I remember when this happened. I was in elementary school and one of the teachers in my school lost her brother on the Thresher. It was a very sad time for us. RIP to all who were lost.
RIP Brave Souls, and thank you for your continued service on "eternal patrol."
Also, thank you for such an excellent delivery of this tragic story.
I remember the Thresher incident' this is the best presentation of what happened I have ever heard; at my present age that's allot. Thank You for this, it answers a lot of questions.
I’ve heard this story a few times and your the first to really do it justice. Amazing job.
Here in New Hampshire by the Portsmouth naval shipyard we still have the uss albacore as a museum
Amazing. I’d love to visit one day
I’ve just found your stuff and been binging it because the content is so good! Love the high quality source images and really clear explanations for us land lubbers.
Love your content, especially your longer videos. I prefer to hear more about the aftermath of such incidents and how it changed or failed to change regulations/safety standards, in addition to the impact on the family members of the victims.
Thanks for the feedback. I’ll keep that in mind
@@waterlinestories Thanks!
The loss and lessons learned from THRESHER and SCORPION were required learning when I was in sub school, "A" school as well as QA inspector school. This video is very well done, thank you for all the work that you put into it. Curious: have you heard of the sinking and RESCUE and salvage of the USS Squalus? I think it's fascinating and would LOVE to see your take on it. Thank you again.
Eternal Patrol.....
gives me goosebumps.
Love your knowledge on these excellent videos. Keep it up.✌️🇺🇲
Excellent research and presentation.
I spent many years working QA/QC in the food industry in Australia, often butting heads with management when I wanted to implement changes. As I used to explain to them, if we don't do this, and one family gets sick from the product, we will have every TV journalist/program/new service at the front gate, on the phone and in your face as your leave your home. The QA/QC department is your insurance policy against such things happening. Our job is to look into our crystal balls and play "what if?". When we have had a problem, I can come up with 12 different ways that the contamination got into our product and it won't be the first half a dozen or so, because they are the ones that are taken care of by your usual standard procedures. It will be the totally out of left field, the one in a million occurrence that has caused the problem - I have seen it with my own eyes.
It seems to me that the QA/QC let these guys down, plus the SOPS for hot restarts after a SCRAM....which technically comes under QA/QC as well as they are the guys in charge of documentation and making sure it all works. Probably the cold war, the rush rush rush, hush hush hush didn't help.
May those brave souls find a safe harbour
Yes I think there’s often a conflict between QC who want to show it down to make sure things are done properly and production who want to speed up and make the deadline. It’s a balancing act.
no... there is no QA or QC for reactor scrams... we actually do this about once a week at depth as part of our daily drills... submarines practice fires, flooding, loss of electrical busses, loss of hydraulics... and at least once or twice a month pretend the reactor shuts down or has some other calamity. As a former radioman i had to gen up those messages and pretend to launch radio bouys.... so its not like food service... these men we lost due to engineers over confidence and the governments reliability on lowest bidders.
8:53 Ahhhh the flooding trainer. I remember that in sub school. Had to do it twice because 2 guys freeked out and quit once the water got the deck plates. Boy was that water cold.
Thank you for this presentation, and especially for not using computerized speech. The details you provided are fascinating, and your discussion is clear and easy to follow. I agree with another commenter that the last line here, that the thresher is not decommissioned, but is in eternal patrol, is haunting. Well done!
Fantastic documentation. I wish RIP for that 129 souls.
Maybe this is harder than it sounds but I always wondered why Navies don't run post-construction and post-overhaul testing in water that's only slightly deeper than the sub's test depth. That way if everything goes wrong the worst that can happen is the sub can settle on the bottom where the crew might be able to make repairs or a DSRV might be able to reach it.
Impacting the bottom at speed will likely cause a hull failure too.
@@JB-jg1tc better odds than inevitable implosion from an unstoppable dive.
Great video. I always look forward to new videos from you! Keep the good work.
Thanks I’ll do my best
Good video. This clears up some of the questions I had about the sinking. I didn't know about the strainers.
I’m truly enjoying your videos. Great work!
Thanks 👍🏻
I read the Thresher book to my husband as we hauled freight on the road ; ) It was very interesting!
Great video! That for the data.
I don’t think I knew about Thresher when I was on subs in the Navy. But I remember reading about the SubSafe program and learning about Thresher then! I have been in a sub that is sinking backwards from periscope depth… not fun! I can only image what the crew went through!!
Thanks again!
Great video, as usual. Always look forward to videos. Love em 👍❤
Wow. Just wow! And like most things, it takes serious injuries and/or death for changes to come.
R.I.P. to all those men.
The thermocline has always been fascinating to me. Anyone who has ever dived in open water knows it when they see it. It's literally a two different temperatures of water meeting and the moment you hit it you feel it. Idk just crazy cool to me.
Kinetically it's the depth at which motion stops inside the surface waves and enters a different speed, which makes water and other particles collide much less than before, creating a significantly lower temperature
I've poked an arm into very cold water from a far more warm body of water whilst scuba diving. Really weird sensation.
Terrible loss of both Thresher and Scorpion. They are on eternal patrol. Bless their service to our nation.
A US soldier dies a little girls virginity is saved
Nice presentation of a terrible disaster. I remember my Dad discussing the news coverage and it was discussed in my classroom, I was about eleven at the time.
This is the best channel! Im 12, a boat nerd and i watch a waterline story every night before bed 🛌 Great channel, keep going!
🤛🏻 That's great to hear. Welcome aboard
Very interesting story. I wonder if non removal of the filters was known BEFORE it went out on its last set of tests, or if this was discovered upon subsequent investigation.
I had already read several articles and publications about Thresher. Did not know about the filters that SHOULD HAVE been removed from the compressed air lines that caused the lines to freeze, that was something that had not been explained in other information I saw. Had not realized that Skylark had heard and identified the sound of the catastrophic implosion of Thresher. Watched and listened to this video with tears running down my face . . .
This is the Number One video to watch about Thresher. All submariners of any nation, any time are a breed apart. "They that go down to (under) the sea in ships . . ." May the Creator cradle their souls in paradise.
~Amen~
Very best report on the Thresher disaster. Logically organized. Thorough. Well presented. Much much better than the many others I have watched. 👍
What happened to those responsible for leaving the filters in the water pipe after maintenance? I hope they did not get away with their dire incompetence.
I've been through the simulation training at point loma.... the hydraulic training platform, with blazing fire and water filling to your chest if you don't get the pipes shut quick enough can be terrifying, I can't imagine going down in real life. God bless the sailors of thresher.
this isnt the complete story... you need to include the account of the seawolf that was listening at the time... there were some 37 pings from the Threasher ... sub brief covered this 2 years ago when more documents were declassified
I hail the algorithm on this day for it brought me to this video. And damn, that was an amazing breakdown of not just the ship but also the entire accident. Well done, I will now go binge all your other videos.
👍🏻 thanks I appreciate that
Very well presented, thank you for the video!
👍🏻
I believe that he weapon you are describing as ASROC at the beginning is actually SUBROC which you elaborate on later in the video. They are similar weapons but ASROC could only be fired from a box launcher on a surface ship. Otherwise this is a fantastic video, this is a great channel.
I only know that because of “The Bedford Incident”. Damn good movie.
Good work. For some reason, the actual details of these harrowing accidents fascinate me. The incident per se and the subsequent learning and institutional changes are very well presented here, without any of the melodrama that mars virtually all other accounts. And extra credit for drilling down on how sound recordings were used to eliminate the punctured-pipe argument. Sad time for the crew and their families, but at least the former died without even the time to feel anything.
Every video you make is pure quality
Thanks 👍🏻
Thank you for a great video and the clear explanation of this tragic event. 🙏
I hope you got your Adsense account figured out. Your channel is getting big.
Thanks, just yesterday actually. Almost 3 months, crazy
@@waterlinestories I’m glad my dude. You deserve your ad revenue. I like your videos. Congrats on getting it sorted out.
7:55 Did you say RADIO WAVES? INCORRECT. Radio Waves cannot permutate water even at high power more than a few feet. The communication used by Thresher is an underwater telephone it uses 900 to 60kHz frequencies to send voice communications. The unit on Thresher was the AN/WQC-2 unit or sometimes referred as UQC-1. This is the reason why thermoclines are important as the higher frequencies used for normal communication around 42Khz will reflect off the thermocline. This typically means shifting to the 12Khz band for deep water operation. I was a Sonar Tech on USS Georgia SSBN 792 and had to operate and maintain this equipment.
Thanks for the added info. I misspoke and it’s great to get a correction that really adds value.
Grew up in New Hampshire, now live in Maine. I have been to the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard many times and for some reason, never knew they built the Thresher. That's wicked cool. The Bath Iron Works in Maine are something else, as well.
I thought new information became declassified recently indicating that communicatios continued on a old emergency messaging system onboard.
Excellent posting: The explanation given by US Navy raises many questions. 1st-any electrical cabinet in a potentially wet environment would be enclosed in a watertite enclosure, tested and approved for any moisture intrusion. These NEMA enclosures are used even in an industrial setting, where standards are far less demanding than in military applications. 2nd-the transfer of essential power especially for RCP ( Reactor Cooling Pump ), it seems, would have at least two separate sources as backups with a transfer switch to select either source in case one source fails. Even if a reactor SCRAM has occurred some means of alternate propulsion would be available-or all test dives suspended until adequate Battery power was available. 3rd-Water ingress- the equivalent of hole 1 sq.ft., if open to sea, will allow water inrush even at the shallow depth of 100 ft. of 36,000 gpm (gallons per minute) at a weight of 8.5 lbs/gal= 306,000 lb/min or 306,000/60=5,100 lb/sec an amount of 2.55 short tons per second ! . Surely there exist some means in the bilges to dewater quickly with bilge pumps having a source of emergency power and tested for functionality on every rotating watch by those responsible crew members. 4th- You wonder if there exist a manual override, a hand lever that would mechanically actuate a valve to dump high pressure air directly into the ballast tank(s) with nozzles designed to function in spite of adiabatic cooling from a rapid reduction of air pressure.
Spray-tight enclosures were evolved after the accident. Before that they were basically the same switchboards used on surface ships. Surfaces ships are not going to get sea water rushing in at 500+ PSI. While there are multiple power sources and routes for any equipment aboard, if you wipe out those vital and non-vital switchboards in the machinery space, nothing is going to work. Even if you left the steam valves open, there would be no sea water pumps to condense the steam in the main condensers, so you would be dumping raw steam into the engine room. That would kill everyone in it pretty quickly. There would have been no power for dewatering pumps either. Even the ships battery would be unusable as it too is routed to those same switchboards. None of those circuit breakers would stay shut if they were shorted out by sea water - an excellent conductor, by the way. Also, while the ballast tank valves could be manually opened, the filters that shouldn't have been there would still have iced up. Finally, the water-tight doors in the machinery space would both have been shut for the dive, and they both open inwards. As soon as the flooding started, it would have been impossible to open them. So no one was going to enter to help whoever was in there. The noise level would have been so loud that they could only communicate with each other with hand signals. No one would have been able to talk to them or give them orders, or even ask them what was going on. They were on their own. They were also soaking wet and freezing. Even if they had managed to isolate the flooding, the weight was going to drag that sub down as they had no propulsion, no dewatering, and no ballast blowing capability. It took years and billions of bucks to eventually solve all the short-comings that were identified in our submarine construction, overhaul, and operation - by that sinking. Those few men weren't going to solve them all in the few minutes they had left to live. God Bless all those good men and their families. The crew was not the problem.
@@michaelwalimaa1806 Thank you for the additional information: Having worked with Emergency Generators, Battery Banks, Transfer Switches, Interlocks and associated equipment most all share a common limitation, the amount of money and/or time constraint in installation, testing and distribution to parties concerned. No criticism intended in my comment. My respect to anyone who would serve as a submariner. I question the design or lack of overrides and backup for the crew who's very life is on the line. I fully realize that with time commitment of a tactical weapon or vessel there comes a point when you have to freeze the design an " go with what you've got " . I'm sure the U.S. Navy has access to scientific and engineering talent that is second to none. BUT When I hear of a failure of equipment and subsequent loss of life related to that equipment I seriously question the design engineering involved and also the approval and acceptance by a review board that would indicate that ALL that is possible to maintain the BOAT, safeguard life, has been put in place. That the highest confidence, the utmost reliability factor of equipment known to man has been installed. Unfortunately there exist few systems that cannot be made better in some way. My deepest hope is that the engineering, testing and approval in future be of such a standard that no BOAT will ever suffer the fate of Thresher or Scorpion again.
Ref 4th - I seem to recall there was. Four of them...two on each side, fore and aft. I don't remember nozzles though, just the valves. They had big green handles.