Very informative, thank you. I bought a fine used '60 Standard in Kalamazoo as a young man, maybe 1971-72. The creme pups were beautiful but very weak and unfocused. Took it to the Gibson plant. They swapped them out for another set of creme PAFs that were unreal. Charged me next to nothing, apologized for the original lousy pups. Those were the days, my friend.
Gibson had a set of creme PAFs in 1970? Pretty sure they gave you black T tops, where would they get pickups they hadn't had since 61 ? The only answer would be if they rewound your own original pickups since white bobbins were period specific and were all black from the late 60s through the 70s
@@arfboucher3855 Makes total sense, but I swear they were cream. Maybe they did rewind them, no idea. Did you ever visit the factory in Kalamazoo? If you went in back it was like Joe's garage, they had all kinds of stuff lying around.
@@paulmichaelsmith3207 wish I did, I'm just a vintage guitar player who has been intensely interested in PAFs for many years studying all things PAF. Yours is a very interesting case without a doubt, kind of a Peter Green mystery on your hands, however I consider t tops from the 60s to the early 70s to be among the best PAF "copies" . My early 70s t tops are very close, although I have a set of copies from Bryan Williams that are spot on for only $350 Canadian. Best repros to be found anywhere near that price. Just so you know, no pickups sound like PAF if not wired 50s style, t tops instantly sound like PAFs when this is done, it produces the clarity you hear from PAFs and will produce clarity on any les paul you wire to 50s spec
@@arfboucher3855 Will chk them out, thx. I had numerous guitars w PAFs - several 335s, a 345, a 355, the '60 standard, etc. The best sounding pair were on a '61 SG Les Paul. To this day they were the best PAFs I've ever heard. I sold it cause I'm tall and angular, the SG shape just didn't work for me. No BS, I lived in Kalamazoo, played all over the area, taught guitar, did studio work on jingles, etc. I taught, recorded, and hung out at the Sound Factory, a music store/recording studio. Played in a band with Charlie Wicks, who owned the place and later started Pro Co. Brilliant guy, great organ player. So I had first dibs on anything that walked into the store. Including the '59 Spinal Tap LP. I tried to buy it on the spot but Jerry, the honest guy behind the counter, sold it to a close friend of mine. He figured I had just picked up the '60 a couple weeks earlier, my friend was due the next one. He eventually sold it years later to Norm Harris out here, of Norm's Rare Guitars. Sorry to prattle on. I was lucky to be in the right place at the right time to own and play so many classic guitars. PS. Even tho I love PAFs, my favs were two early Gold Tops with P-90s I had. Straight thru a '62 brown Fender Pro - heaven!
Great video Tyler! I have my grandfather's "59 Standard that he purchased originally in Boston in July 1959. He passed away in 2017 and my grandmother passed it down to me. Everything is original on it, original case, with his strap and cable, even the original strings on it! I will never sell it, because it's so special. I know so much more about the PAF pickup from this video! Thanks again Tyler!
I enjoyed this. I won’t pretend I am an expert. I became friends with a co worker in 99, who is an amazing player and he has a’60 LP I believe. At the time, he actually loaned it to me because I had never played one and was buying my first good guitar. It is all original. I remember that warm and soft were not the words I would use to describe the voice of the pickups. They were very bright, and punchy, and with everything going into a clean amp it was not warm. He showed me that using the controls you can change it, and none of it sounds bad, but it doesn’t sound warm without help. Maybe those words are used differently than I take them. I had similar experiences at shops in Chicago and San Francisco. If you hate your stock humbucker, make sure it’s set up properly, and then work with the pickup height, you might find that the right adjustment will improve them a lot. Good luck tone chasers!
You consistently do a great job whether it's demonstrating a guitar and amp or delving into the details of their component parts. And you have a very dry sense of humor which is always welcome. Please keep up the fine work.
I love hearing about stuff like this. But honestly if you can't make great music with an R9 or whatever, the chemical composition of the bobbins probably isn't why.
If it was a Shelby mustang would it mater if it had a Pinto frame? I mean in I blind test you wouldn't be able to see the frame at all! And both cars would be completely equal. People laugh about silly details like CBS era grey flatwork... That's not going to change some tone, but it's still an important detail. Any customer looking at it would ask if the builder of this pickup didn't know the bobbin was made from butyrate, what else did they skimp out on? Just because it sounds the same doesn't mean anything. Yet pickup manufactures are using cheaper materials and charging $60 more for a set of 2 PAF's. If I part with $269.95 it better be PE and butyrate, not 3d printed bobbin from a shop in nowhereville USA and the cheapest polyurethane magnet wire you could find!
you probably dont care at all but does anyone know a trick to get back into an Instagram account?? I somehow forgot the account password. I would appreciate any tips you can offer me
@Alan Konnor Thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and Im in the hacking process atm. Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
EC is all about quality on every level and this is a fine example. I had the pleasure of visiting them last year whilst on the Blues Trail. More of this please.
As far as I know Duncan owns two Leesona 102s, and Throbak owns the third extant 102. Most were scrapped in the 80s and 90s when they were functionally obsolete, so they are tough to find these days! Throbak also owns a few other winders directly from the Kalamazoo factory, last time I checked.
Thanks for the great synopsis of the Gibson P.A.F's. I agree with the comment below that asks for a comparison with current Gibson PAF-style offerings.
I have 3 sets of Black Cat Guitar pickups and Chris makes great ones. His minis are phenomenal. They all have a clarity without being at all harsh. So many pickup makers to pick from. Hard to go wrong with SD Antiquity either.
one thing you said that stood out to me was something along the lines of, even if some makers missed some details you'll still get a great pick up. Case in point, the Seth Lovers I have in a Yamaha SBG1500...phenomenal sound I could care less how accurate they are. They have the stuff
YES FEED US WITH KNOWLEDGE. Great video! Another cool video idea is the main differences between the the woods used back in the day against the variants we have today. (Like Honduran mahogany×Indian mahogany)
I have a few sets of pickups by Pete A. Flynn (PAF) and his PAF style pickups are great. Pete explained to me all the the details you laid out in your video. Pete's attention to detail is second to none. One example is He has his nickle covers made for him as all the others he found were too thick. Pete applies that same attention to detail in all aspects of his pickups builds, and the outcome is a pickup that replicates a PAF like no other. IMHO.
I thought I knew it all... and here I learned even more. Great writing on this video. Also worth looking into: Dave Stephens' Stephens Design "Vintage Lab" PAF replica pickups.
I heard some PAF’s played by an incredible blues guitarist in Dallas, Texas. I was all for PAF’s until I heard Seymour Duncan Antiquities Pickups. Those are DIVINE!
I bought an Epiphone DOT Deluxe VS from your store 6 years ago and always loved how it sounded. Just now looked at the humbuckers to find that they are PAF.
Great video! I own and love a 1959/60 ES175 with a single untouched PAF + pots. Love it so much 👍 nice to have the chance to enjoy the holy grail. But at the end… it’s NOT the pickup which makes you sound great! It’s YOU and your playing abilities
I bought a les Paul doublecut off of CraigsList about a year ago. I quizzed the owner abou the guitar, the pickups and its originality. It was obvious this guy new nothing about guitars, I suspect it was his first attempt at learning guitar and gave up. He kept saying"its original except for the PAF,s. What brand of PAF,s I replied? He didnt know, but told me a very reputable experienced shop/tech installed them and all new pots and wiring. I KNEW of the tech and shop and knew they were first class. The guitar was the best sounding guitar I had played in 50 years of guitar buying and trading and upon opening the guitar I spied a wiring job unlike any I had ever seen. Even better than MY work, and I am real experienced building harnesses. Now the pickups, could they be? Well after coming to this video and every other on the web there is no doubt they are authentic PAFS down to the number of strands in the Braid, and the font and alignment of the stickers. I am installing them in my number one Les Paul standard as we speak tonite. Sometimes youre the windshield, sometimes youre the bug!
Way back in the mid 90s jay boone sold guitars I made- he was an original supporter along with south austin vintage . Thanks for the support for a guy that played clubs for half my living. Emerald city helped make it happen but there was no scamj or money passed between us thank you jay boone
I can vouch for Jon's Throbak pickups. I bough a set of his KZ-115's and installed them in my prehistoric 57 reissue Goldtop, really great pickups and a thrill to think they were wound on the old winding machine from the factory at Kalamzoo that Jon acquired.
Dang. That was incredible. Thanks so much. I have Antiquities on one LP and Cream T Pearly Gates on another. Two totally different LPs, but given the differences between the guitars themselves, I much prefer the Antiquities.
Sounds like there could be variations among the original PAFs that would make each one unique. For example, the variation of gauge size in the original wire.
Carbon content and the alloys of the metal affecting the treble response IMO are why the Real PAF’s can not be reproduced 100% accurately . Great video
Nice surprise at the end, I have two sets of Throbak DT102 and I agree they are really incredible. Recently ordered their new 54 tele set to try in a Nocaster
I love PAF pickups, my guitar (the one in my profile pic) is currently a bit of a Frankenstein of pickups at the moment, its a strat style guitar with a PAF in the bridge, a regular single coil in the middle and a lipstick single in the neck, i love the tones i can get out of all of them, and i especially love having the PAF in a strat style guitar, i don't hate on Gibsons, i've just never been a fan of the shape or weight of most of their guitars, but i've always loved the pickup sound, so it just made sense to me to put that kind of pickup in the shape guitar i do like.
Stumbled on a few of your videos randomly at different points and enjoyed them both so knew it was time to subscribe! love this type of content. Some pickups you might try are the Lambertone Cremas. Kurtis at Lambertones is an unreal dude, and while it isn't trying necessarily to be a 100% faithful reproduction, it's definitely in the PAF vein and are wonderful.
I'm thankful for him, cause it's my favorite guitar of all time. I'll never give mine up. I'm about to put some Throbak PAF's in it, and I want another V to put P-90s in one day!
There's a ton of false information in this video, unfortunately. I'm sure it's well-intentioned but there were no bridge or neck specific magnet types, magnets were not magnetized in a block of many, and Gibson didn't spec particular custom heat treatments for the magnets. Regarding the pole screw/slug alloys, the carbon content doesn't enhance treble, but higher iron/steel increases inductance in the core of a coil. This is the reason for treble differences with different alloys. Though the coils were all machine wound, they were wound on several machines, each with several winding stations, and those were constantly being calibrated. This results in many many different coil patterns that appear on original PAFs. Cheers!
@KC I concluded a long study this year on several dozen vintage Gibson bar magnets from 1941-1979. The results showed that NONE of the magnets had lost ANY charge at all from the original time the pickups were installed in the new guitars and when they arrived to me 40-80 years later. All had held a full settled-saturation charge that entire time. It's another common myth that guitar magnets weaken over time, without some very extreme external influence. Leaning against a speaker cab or amp won't do it. Those same results also indicate that every one of those vintage Gibson magnets was fully charged to saturation when the guitars shipped. Pretty cool stuff!
@KC You can read my book if you want to learn more about real-life examples and not just go by general physics theory: www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-gibson-paf-humbucking-pickup-mario-milan/1128188655?ean=9781574243642
@@icebankmicelf Re-read what you wrote. One is theory, the other is fact. Information is not anecdotal when we are talking about several dozen examples from a span of four decades that all exhibited exactly the same behavior. All kept a full settled saturation charge. Actual vintage Gibson bar magnets, in particular. Not just theoretical properties of AlNiCo in general.
Great video. I have RS Guitarworks True 60s (Fralin wound) in two guitars, a 2006 R9 and an RS Workhorse Tel, and Duncan Seth Lovers in my 335. I love them all but they don’t sound at all like each other. This likely explains why.
Great video. I'm laughing just thinking about the guys out there having a complete meltdown cuz all the myths they've believed for years have just been shattered. I'm sure there's plenty of them in complete denial right now, saying you're a liar. Lol
One of the things that surprised me about PAFs when I finally got the chance to play (and in a few cases own) guitars featuring ‘em is how relatively low in output they are compared to modern HBs. They can still push an amp nicely due to their midrange response, but they’re not “hot” pickups. The other thing that surprised me was how open and airy the treble response is. “Tele on steroids” is a very accurate description. A PAF bridge pickup can slice your head off with treble all by itself if that’s the sound you want. But it can also do “sweet with some lovely fairy dust on top” if that’s more your thing. Amazing how it all came together in this one design.
Couldn’t agree more David! Most modern buckers are extremely muddy and inarticulate compared to the old ones. Check out the Lollar El Rayo if you’re looking to nail that beefed up tele sound!
don't know, tons of pafs in the 8-9k range that's seen as medium-hot in today's paf replicas. they just varied man.. the custombuckers in modern reissues vary the same way.
It’s not really about the DC resistance readings but about how much signal the pickups send to an amp. The PAFs I’ve owned range from 7.35KOhms to 8.45K but the signal strength is always pretty close to that of a typical 6.5K-ish Tele bridge pickup. I think it’s more about how the magnets were charged up. This video touches on that.
Great talk. Thank you so much. This does not even take into consideration picks, finger tips, technique, amps, string gauge and composition, pedals, wires and plugs- all of which can influence tone Generally you can’t buy great tone- you have to earn it
I ordered the Mojo Pickups PAF from UK. Amazing. And I am in the line for what is considered the most PAF expert around SDPickups (but that is a more than a year leadtime).
1. Nickel and silver are even more conductive than copper. 2. 42 awg enamel wire has the same OD as 42 awg nylon or other insulation. I've measured it! 3. Bobbin material as long as it's not conductive has no effect on tone. It's purely a function of dimensions. This video is supposed to debunk the snake oil not propagate it. Modern PAF replicas are just as good if not better than the originals. Also they are more consistently manufactured. Out of the originals ,they were so inconsistent, it's actually getting harder to find a pair that still sounds good. Save your money and get a set of modern PAF's if that's the sound your going for. You'll be glad you did. That should be the message of this video....lol
What happens with the modern pickup covers is that the layer of copper placed between the nickel silver and the nickel layer, even though it's a conductor, is less conductive than the layers on either side of it creating a very leaky, tiny value capacitor and the fact that the cover is soldered to the base plate and that is grounded in the circuit, it rolls off all the "sparkle" of the pickup's tone. The same way the tone cap works with the tone pot.
Stewmac Golden Age Parsons Street humbucking pickups are based on the iconic PAF's made in the former Gibson factory at 225 Parsons Street in Kalamazoo MI (now home of Heritage Guitars since '85); i have a neck humbucker w/an Alnico 2 magnet in my LPX that has the sweetest sound that I'm considering one for the bridge position.
So THAT’s why my Duncan Seth Lover set smells! I have both the Seth Lover and the Antiquities. The Seth Lover sounds great but the balance between neck and bridge isn’t great, the neck being too dark. The Antiquities are absolutely like no other humbucker I ever tried, and they put a huge smile on my face. Haven’t tried other PAF replicas (except a Bare Knuckle Mule which I didn’t love), but I’m hooked!
I’d argue that one of the largest factors in vintage PAF tone is that 50s and 60s were not wax potted. Over time unpotted pickups can become microphonic, which when not too extreme, lends clarity and treble to the signal. So ironically, it’s less a matter of quality construction and more a matter imperfection and aging that make the old PAFs more chimey and less muddy than modern potted humbuckers. Also, lower output contributes to clarity, which you tend to get with less windings and weaker or aged magnets, which is where a lot of modern high output humbuckers fail. Higher output increases bass and middle frequencies, but greatly decreases treble frequencies and thus, clarity.
Super informative and efficiently explained. Thanks! I have ThroBaks in a '59 CS Les Paul, and they are really great. Noticeably better than the Gibson HB's that came with the guitar. But, the Gibson PAF's aren't bad. Just a little too underwound for some guitars. Antiquities are good for the money...
I had a pair of PAF repros that I bought from a company in Britain. I wont name them but I'll give you a clue, it's related to an ass. Anyway, I hated em so I sent em into Seymour Duncan Custom for a rewind & mag swap. Any recommendations on what I should have done? I'm seeking a tone that sits somewhere between - Kossoff & Very Early ZZ . Already briefed em on what I need but any inputs more than welcome
Any favorites from Gibson post-PAF, maybe 60s patent # vs very late 60s/70s, or maybe Shaws and more recent custom shop models? It's always tempting to swap non-PAF Gibson pickups for something sexier or buzzier, but as a pickup maker yourself, what do you think?
@1:20 Im pretty sure George Bauchamp didn't invent the guitar pick up for Rickenbacker until 1931, but Seth Lover was the first to drop a humbucker in a guitar in the 50s
Good video, also would like to see a video on the differences between the 57 Classic and the Burstbucker, vs others, what are the differences, and why.
Classics are potted, regular Burstbuckers not, but Burstbucker Pro are! I liked plain lower wind Burstbuckers #1, 2...sounded like Govt Mule to my ears, good enough!
Great video. I love some proper geeky talk about old Gibson's. But I bought one of their 60th anniversary Les Pauls and what ever they have done to the pickup has paid off because they really are the real deal now. I had a pile to try out and the one I bought has a voice that is more Page than say Clapton. It's really insane.
They sound absolutely beautiful when plugged straight into a Twin Reverb and played clean 👍🏻😎. Finding someone who actually plays one clean is like searching for unicorn 🦄 shit but it does exist lol 😆
The old winding machines did not have automatic shut off until the mid 60s. The reason paf output varied so much and why they had uneven coil windings is because the machines did not have auto shutoff or turn counters for several years. Auto shutoff did not get added until the patent sticker pickups which is why they are lower in output and more consistent seth liover when asked if they had turn counters and automatic shutoffs he laughed and said we wound them until the bobbins looked full then we shit the machine down . People walking away from the machine is why many pafs under up overwound because the machine wound keep winding until they came back and sometimes they would not make it back in time not only were pafs not hand wound they were not scatter wound either .I hear people talking about aftermarket winders replicating gibson scatter winding methods and I just shake my head because there was no scatter winding process you won't find alot of scatter in a machine wound pickup and any scatter in a paf was minimal and purely by accident but poeple brag about paying extra money for a 100 percent accurate handwound scatter wound paf clone which is just silly because handwinding and scattewinding are not historically accurate methods. The most accurate paf copy is throbak and they machine wind their pickups . Handwinding is a gimmick. Not saying handwound pickups don't sound great or they dont sound like the real thing but paying extra for handwound is silly unless a specific handwound pickup has the exact tone you are looking for but paying extra for handwound or scatter because you think its more historically accurate is pointless.
Please do more videos like this. Love hearing about guitar history like this. Such awesome knowledge and I’m proud that you’re from my area
Thanks so much! I love to do these kinds of videos but (un)fortunately the repair shop is keeping me pretty slammed these days!
@tiger stripe As far as I know this is technically accurate. Thanks for watching!
It’s a pleasure to listen to someone who really knows what he’s talking about.
Very informative, thank you. I bought a fine used '60 Standard in Kalamazoo as a young man, maybe 1971-72. The creme pups were beautiful but very weak and unfocused. Took it to the Gibson plant. They swapped them out for another set of creme PAFs that were unreal. Charged me next to nothing, apologized for the original lousy pups. Those were the days, my friend.
Too bad you couldn't keep the old ones too Big money Great story oh how times have changed 😂
Gibson had a set of creme PAFs in 1970? Pretty sure they gave you black T tops, where would they get pickups they hadn't had since 61 ? The only answer would be if they rewound your own original pickups since white bobbins were period specific and were all black from the late 60s through the 70s
@@arfboucher3855 Makes total sense, but I swear they were cream. Maybe they did rewind them, no idea. Did you ever visit the factory in Kalamazoo? If you went in back it was like Joe's garage, they had all kinds of stuff lying around.
@@paulmichaelsmith3207 wish I did, I'm just a vintage guitar player who has been intensely interested in PAFs for many years studying all things PAF. Yours is a very interesting case without a doubt, kind of a Peter Green mystery on your hands, however I consider t tops from the 60s to the early 70s to be among the best PAF "copies" . My early 70s t tops are very close, although I have a set of copies from Bryan Williams that are spot on for only $350 Canadian. Best repros to be found anywhere near that price. Just so you know, no pickups sound like PAF if not wired 50s style, t tops instantly sound like PAFs when this is done, it produces the clarity you hear from PAFs and will produce clarity on any les paul you wire to 50s spec
@@arfboucher3855 Will chk them out, thx. I had numerous guitars w PAFs - several 335s, a 345, a 355, the '60 standard, etc. The best sounding pair were on a '61 SG Les Paul. To this day they were the best PAFs I've ever heard. I sold it cause I'm tall and angular, the SG shape just didn't work for me. No BS, I lived in Kalamazoo, played all over the area, taught guitar, did studio work on jingles, etc. I taught, recorded, and hung out at the Sound Factory, a music store/recording studio. Played in a band with Charlie Wicks, who owned the place and later started Pro Co. Brilliant guy, great organ player. So I had first dibs on anything that walked into the store. Including the '59 Spinal Tap LP. I tried to buy it on the spot but Jerry, the honest guy behind the counter, sold it to a close friend of mine. He figured I had just picked up the '60 a couple weeks earlier, my friend was due the next one. He eventually sold it years later to Norm Harris out here, of Norm's Rare Guitars. Sorry to prattle on. I was lucky to be in the right place at the right time to own and play so many classic guitars. PS. Even tho I love PAFs, my favs were two early Gold Tops with P-90s I had. Straight thru a '62 brown Fender Pro - heaven!
Great video Tyler! I have my grandfather's "59 Standard that he purchased originally in Boston in July 1959. He passed away in 2017 and my grandmother passed it down to me. Everything is original on it, original case, with his strap and cable, even the original strings on it! I will never sell it, because it's so special. I know so much more about the PAF pickup from this video! Thanks again Tyler!
This is the kind of content we like to see!!!
This is the most in depth video I've seen on the subject, and I'm highly appreciative of the insight. This was class. Jon Gundry is the man
Can i just say it’s so nice to watch consistently top quality videos w/ aesthetics. You guys and JHS show are running the TH-cam game.
I enjoyed this. I won’t pretend I am an expert. I became friends with a co worker in 99, who is an amazing player and he has a’60 LP I believe. At the time, he actually loaned it to me because I had never played one and was buying my first good guitar. It is all original. I remember that warm and soft were not the words I would use to describe the voice of the pickups. They were very bright, and punchy, and with everything going into a clean amp it was not warm. He showed me that using the controls you can change it, and none of it sounds bad, but it doesn’t sound warm without help. Maybe those words are used differently than I take them. I had similar experiences at shops in Chicago and San Francisco. If you hate your stock humbucker, make sure it’s set up properly, and then work with the pickup height, you might find that the right adjustment will improve them a lot. Good luck tone chasers!
You consistently do a great job whether it's demonstrating a guitar and amp or delving into the details of their component parts. And you have a very dry sense of humor which is always welcome. Please keep up the fine work.
I love hearing about stuff like this. But honestly if you can't make great music with an R9 or whatever, the chemical composition of the bobbins probably isn't why.
If it was a Shelby mustang would it mater if it had a Pinto frame? I mean in I blind test you wouldn't be able to see the frame at all! And both cars would be completely equal. People laugh about silly details like CBS era grey flatwork... That's not going to change some tone, but it's still an important detail. Any customer looking at it would ask if the builder of this pickup didn't know the bobbin was made from butyrate, what else did they skimp out on? Just because it sounds the same doesn't mean anything. Yet pickup manufactures are using cheaper materials and charging $60 more for a set of 2 PAF's. If I part with $269.95 it better be PE and butyrate, not 3d printed bobbin from a shop in nowhereville USA and the cheapest polyurethane magnet wire you could find!
you probably dont care at all but does anyone know a trick to get back into an Instagram account??
I somehow forgot the account password. I would appreciate any tips you can offer me
@Zayd Malcolm instablaster :)
@Alan Konnor Thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and Im in the hacking process atm.
Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Alan Konnor it worked and I now got access to my account again. I am so happy!
Thank you so much, you saved my account!
EC is all about quality on every level and this is a fine example. I had the pleasure of visiting them last year whilst on the Blues Trail. More of this please.
About 5min into this video and i'm already pretty sure this is my favorite guitar channel
This was very helpful
That's a lot of details,Tyler. Thank you.
Excellent Tyler! Do more of these. Love hearing the details. 👍🤙
Those winding machines are now owned by Seymour Duncan and used to make his PAF's.
Klien makes an amazing PAF as well
Thanks Mike, more videos are on the way!
As far as I know Duncan owns two Leesona 102s, and Throbak owns the third extant 102. Most were scrapped in the 80s and 90s when they were functionally obsolete, so they are tough to find these days! Throbak also owns a few other winders directly from the Kalamazoo factory, last time I checked.
Finally, someone providing factual information on this subject.
Very impressive and great video.
this is my fav channel for vintage guitar info.
Fascinating!! Great job Tyler!!
Thanks for the great synopsis of the Gibson P.A.F's. I agree with the comment below that asks for a comparison with current Gibson PAF-style offerings.
Never visit Seattle without heading here. Great store, great staff. Drool worthy guitars
I have 3 sets of Black Cat Guitar pickups and Chris makes great ones. His minis are phenomenal. They all have a clarity without being at all harsh. So many pickup makers to pick from. Hard to go wrong with SD Antiquity either.
Love it! Gotta have Tyler (and crew) do more of these videos. You guys do great content and should have way more subscribers :)
one thing you said that stood out to me was something along the lines of, even if some makers missed some details you'll still get a great pick up. Case in point, the Seth Lovers I have in a Yamaha SBG1500...phenomenal sound I could care less how accurate they are. They have the stuff
I have the seth lovers pickups in my AXL les paul style guitar, tho alnico Ii have a thinner tone than the alnico V magnet.
Thomas Zonkowski they have some of the stuff
This was amazing to watch. Thanks for sharing!
YES FEED US WITH KNOWLEDGE.
Great video! Another cool video idea is the main differences between the the woods used back in the day against the variants we have today. (Like Honduran mahogany×Indian mahogany)
I have a few sets of pickups by Pete A. Flynn (PAF) and his PAF style pickups are great. Pete explained to me all the the details you laid out in your video. Pete's attention to detail is second to none. One example is He has his nickle covers made for him as all the others he found were too thick. Pete applies that same attention to detail in all aspects of his pickups builds, and the outcome is a pickup that replicates a PAF like no other. IMHO.
I thought I knew it all... and here I learned even more. Great writing on this video. Also worth looking into: Dave Stephens' Stephens Design "Vintage Lab" PAF replica pickups.
This is great!Please do more videos like this!
Thanks!!
I heard some PAF’s played by an incredible blues guitarist in Dallas, Texas. I was all for PAF’s until I heard Seymour Duncan Antiquities Pickups. Those are DIVINE!
Excellent detailed presentation. Thanks very much for posting.
I bought an Epiphone DOT Deluxe VS from your store 6 years ago and always loved how it sounded. Just now looked at the humbuckers to find that they are PAF.
Great video! I own and love a 1959/60 ES175 with a single untouched PAF + pots. Love it so much 👍
nice to have the chance to enjoy the holy grail. But at the end… it’s NOT the pickup which makes you sound great! It’s YOU and your playing abilities
I bought a les Paul doublecut off of CraigsList about a year ago. I quizzed the owner abou the guitar, the pickups and its originality. It was obvious this guy new nothing about guitars, I suspect it was his first attempt at learning guitar and gave up. He kept saying"its original except for the PAF,s. What brand of PAF,s I replied? He didnt know, but told me a very reputable experienced shop/tech installed them and all new pots and wiring. I KNEW of the tech and shop and knew they were first class. The guitar was the best sounding guitar I had played in 50 years of guitar buying and trading and upon opening the guitar I spied a wiring job unlike any I had ever seen. Even better than MY work, and I am real experienced building harnesses. Now the pickups, could they be? Well after coming to this video and every other on the web there is no doubt they are authentic PAFS down to the number of strands in the Braid, and the font and alignment of the stickers. I am installing them in my number one Les Paul standard as we speak tonite. Sometimes youre the windshield, sometimes youre the bug!
I just use whatever Gibson put in the guitar, it works and I like the sound so these are good for me.
Way back in the mid 90s jay boone sold guitars I made- he was an original supporter along with south austin vintage . Thanks for the support for a guy that played clubs for half my living. Emerald city helped make it happen but there was no scamj or money passed between us
thank you jay boone
I was just a guy working out of his garage that knew some stuff
Fantastic job with this video, great content and video editing is as pro as it gets.
Amber Spirit of 59 .. I bought a Les Paul with a pair already fitted as an upgrade, and they are excellent.
I can vouch for Jon's Throbak pickups. I bough a set of his KZ-115's and installed them in my prehistoric 57 reissue Goldtop, really great pickups and a thrill to think they were wound on the old winding machine from the factory at Kalamzoo that Jon acquired.
Dang. That was incredible. Thanks so much. I have Antiquities on one LP and Cream T Pearly Gates on another. Two totally different LPs, but given the differences between the guitars themselves, I much prefer the Antiquities.
Another cool vid Tyler!
Sounds like there could be variations among the original PAFs that would make each one unique. For example, the variation of gauge size in the original wire.
Carbon content and the alloys of the metal affecting the treble response IMO are why the Real PAF’s can not be reproduced 100% accurately . Great video
Perfectly explained
Cool video. Thanks man.
I agree with you on the Throbak pickups I bought a pair of the mt102b and they sound amazing. Enjoyed the video!!!
Nice surprise at the end, I have two sets of Throbak DT102 and I agree they are really incredible. Recently ordered their new 54 tele set to try in a Nocaster
This is a great video. Well done.
This was super interesting, thanks
Great reviews of PAFs!
Great video, thanks for sharing.
I love PAF pickups, my guitar (the one in my profile pic) is currently a bit of a Frankenstein of pickups at the moment, its a strat style guitar with a PAF in the bridge, a regular single coil in the middle and a lipstick single in the neck, i love the tones i can get out of all of them, and i especially love having the PAF in a strat style guitar, i don't hate on Gibsons, i've just never been a fan of the shape or weight of most of their guitars, but i've always loved the pickup sound, so it just made sense to me to put that kind of pickup in the shape guitar i do like.
Nicely done.
Great video, very informative! I love the sound of the classic PAF’s, need to get a set of PAF clones in my LP.
Stumbled on a few of your videos randomly at different points and enjoyed them both so knew it was time to subscribe! love this type of content.
Some pickups you might try are the Lambertone Cremas. Kurtis at Lambertones is an unreal dude, and while it isn't trying necessarily to be a 100% faithful reproduction, it's definitely in the PAF vein and are wonderful.
House of Tone TruPAFs are absolutely outstanding. Hand wound in Chester, England. Just had some put in my Sire Larry Carlton H7 and they are singing 👌
Thank you so much for this. I always wanted to know the info on patent applied for...pickups
Seth did invent the flying V. according to him. His best pickup design remains the p90!
I'm thankful for him, cause it's my favorite guitar of all time. I'll never give mine up. I'm about to put some Throbak PAF's in it, and I want another V to put P-90s in one day!
@@TheChadPad Your favorite guitar but not the pups?
Very thorough and well researched.
That was groovy,thank you.
Very nice explaining video. Like for you!
There's a ton of false information in this video, unfortunately. I'm sure it's well-intentioned but there were no bridge or neck specific magnet types, magnets were not magnetized in a block of many, and Gibson didn't spec particular custom heat treatments for the magnets. Regarding the pole screw/slug alloys, the carbon content doesn't enhance treble, but higher iron/steel increases inductance in the core of a coil. This is the reason for treble differences with different alloys. Though the coils were all machine wound, they were wound on several machines, each with several winding stations, and those were constantly being calibrated. This results in many many different coil patterns that appear on original PAFs. Cheers!
@KC I concluded a long study this year on several dozen vintage Gibson bar magnets from 1941-1979. The results showed that NONE of the magnets had lost ANY charge at all from the original time the pickups were installed in the new guitars and when they arrived to me 40-80 years later. All had held a full settled-saturation charge that entire time. It's another common myth that guitar magnets weaken over time, without some very extreme external influence. Leaning against a speaker cab or amp won't do it. Those same results also indicate that every one of those vintage Gibson magnets was fully charged to saturation when the guitars shipped. Pretty cool stuff!
@KC You can read my book if you want to learn more about real-life examples and not just go by general physics theory: www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-gibson-paf-humbucking-pickup-mario-milan/1128188655?ean=9781574243642
ReWind Electric I respect the anecdotes but physics theory holds true over personal observation
@@icebankmicelf Re-read what you wrote. One is theory, the other is fact. Information is not anecdotal when we are talking about several dozen examples from a span of four decades that all exhibited exactly the same behavior. All kept a full settled saturation charge. Actual vintage Gibson bar magnets, in particular. Not just theoretical properties of AlNiCo in general.
Why is there always an electrical engineer on the internet telling every successful music gear manufacturer they are doing it wrong?
The pickups that sound best are the ones being played through by someone who can actually play, pretty simple :)
100%. I love bringing Squires to blues jams.
How about OX4 PAF’s? Sound amazing in my Les Paul
Great video. I have RS Guitarworks True 60s (Fralin wound) in two guitars, a 2006 R9 and an RS Workhorse Tel, and Duncan Seth Lovers in my 335. I love them all but they don’t sound at all like each other. This likely explains why.
this was awesome. thank you.
Great video. Please do a 'Let's talk about the P-90" vid !
Great video. I'm laughing just thinking about the guys out there having a complete meltdown cuz all the myths they've believed for years have just been shattered. I'm sure there's plenty of them in complete denial right now, saying you're a liar. Lol
Yep.... all the myths are crushed by just another video on TH-cam and the rest is in denial. How easy life can be.
Thx for giving your recommendations of current replicas
Awesome video.
Very good video,a good resume.
Very cool video
One of the things that surprised me about PAFs when I finally got the chance to play (and in a few cases own) guitars featuring ‘em is how relatively low in output they are compared to modern HBs. They can still push an amp nicely due to their midrange response, but they’re not “hot” pickups.
The other thing that surprised me was how open and airy the treble response is. “Tele on steroids” is a very accurate description. A PAF bridge pickup can slice your head off with treble all by itself if that’s the sound you want. But it can also do “sweet with some lovely fairy dust on top” if that’s more your thing. Amazing how it all came together in this one design.
Nerd alert
Couldn’t agree more David! Most modern buckers are extremely muddy and inarticulate compared to the old ones. Check out the Lollar El Rayo if you’re looking to nail that beefed up tele sound!
don't know, tons of pafs in the 8-9k range that's seen as medium-hot in today's paf replicas. they just varied man.. the custombuckers in modern reissues vary the same way.
It’s not really about the DC resistance readings but about how much signal the pickups send to an amp. The PAFs I’ve owned range from 7.35KOhms to 8.45K but the signal strength is always pretty close to that of a typical 6.5K-ish Tele bridge pickup. I think it’s more about how the magnets were charged up. This video touches on that.
Yup! 🤓
Great video. Always enjoy it when you guys share your vast amount of knowledge.
it would be intressting to see tyler make a P.A.F the way he just explained and make a video so we can see how he would do.
Great talk. Thank you so much. This does not even take into consideration picks, finger tips, technique, amps, string gauge and composition, pedals, wires and plugs- all of which can influence tone
Generally you can’t buy great tone- you have to earn it
It replaced the P-90 pick up that made the Les Paul Junior famous....I love my LP Jr.
Very good Thanks
Thank you!!!!!!
I ordered the Mojo Pickups PAF from UK. Amazing.
And I am in the line for what is considered the most PAF expert around SDPickups (but that is a more than a year leadtime).
What pickup maker has the year lead time ?
@@stompdancer62 SDPickups has 1+ year of waitlist
1. Nickel and silver are even more conductive than copper. 2. 42 awg enamel wire has the same OD as 42 awg nylon or other insulation. I've measured it! 3. Bobbin material as long as it's not conductive has no effect on tone. It's purely a function of dimensions. This video is supposed to debunk the snake oil not propagate it. Modern PAF replicas are just as good if not better than the originals. Also they are more consistently manufactured. Out of the originals ,they were so inconsistent, it's actually getting harder to find a pair that still sounds good. Save your money and get a set of modern PAF's if that's the sound your going for. You'll be glad you did. That should be the message of this video....lol
What happens with the modern pickup covers is that the layer of copper placed between the nickel silver and the nickel layer, even though it's a conductor, is less conductive than the layers on either side of it creating a very leaky, tiny value capacitor and the fact that the cover is soldered to the base plate and that is grounded in the circuit, it rolls off all the "sparkle" of the pickup's tone. The same way the tone cap works with the tone pot.
Stewmac Golden Age Parsons Street humbucking pickups are based on the iconic PAF's made in the former Gibson factory at 225 Parsons Street in Kalamazoo MI (now home of Heritage Guitars since '85); i have a neck humbucker w/an Alnico 2 magnet in my LPX that has the sweetest sound that I'm considering one for the bridge position.
So THAT’s why my Duncan Seth Lover set smells! I have both the Seth Lover and the Antiquities. The Seth Lover sounds great but the balance between neck and bridge isn’t great, the neck being too dark. The Antiquities are absolutely like no other humbucker I ever tried, and they put a huge smile on my face. Haven’t tried other PAF replicas (except a Bare Knuckle Mule which I didn’t love), but I’m hooked!
Jacob K Guitar you like the antiquity bridge better? I have the SL’s, but am almost never completely happy with my bridge pickups in any guitar
I’d argue that one of the largest factors in vintage PAF tone is that 50s and 60s were not wax potted. Over time unpotted pickups can become microphonic, which when not too extreme, lends clarity and treble to the signal. So ironically, it’s less a matter of quality construction and more a matter imperfection and aging that make the old PAFs more chimey and less muddy than modern potted humbuckers. Also, lower output contributes to clarity, which you tend to get with less windings and weaker or aged magnets, which is where a lot of modern high output humbuckers fail. Higher output increases bass and middle frequencies, but greatly decreases treble frequencies and thus, clarity.
mk win Spot On! I wind humbuckers and use A3 magnets and do not pot them. Every pickup I have made so far has been a huge hit.
As I understand, the Alnico type originally used was (variously) 2, 3 & 4. In the 60's, at some point, Gibson went exclusively to Alnico 5.
Super informative and efficiently explained. Thanks! I have ThroBaks in a '59 CS Les Paul, and they are really great. Noticeably better than the Gibson HB's that came with the guitar. But, the Gibson PAF's aren't bad. Just a little too underwound for some guitars. Antiquities are good for the money...
Great video!!
I had a pair of PAF repros that I bought from a company in Britain. I wont name them but I'll give you a clue, it's related to an ass.
Anyway, I hated em so I sent em into Seymour Duncan Custom for a rewind & mag swap. Any recommendations on what I should have done? I'm seeking a tone that sits somewhere between - Kossoff & Very Early ZZ .
Already briefed em on what I need but any inputs more than welcome
Very interesting.
I still like T-tops in LP types, usually just the neck position tho. Also with a thin cover added if I have one lying around that looks right.
Jimmy Page had the Low wind T Top (7.5k) in the Bridge and a very Overwound 8.9k (Set Really Low) in the Neck.. Thats the Page Zeppelin Set
Any favorites from Gibson post-PAF, maybe 60s patent # vs very late 60s/70s, or maybe Shaws and more recent custom shop models? It's always tempting to swap non-PAF Gibson pickups for something sexier or buzzier, but as a pickup maker yourself, what do you think?
@1:20 Im pretty sure George Bauchamp didn't invent the guitar pick up for Rickenbacker until 1931, but Seth Lover was the first to drop a humbucker in a guitar in the 50s
You wrong.
Thanks for info
Good video, also would like to see a video on the differences between the 57 Classic and the Burstbucker, vs others, what are the differences, and why.
Classics are potted, regular Burstbuckers not, but Burstbucker Pro are! I liked plain lower wind Burstbuckers #1, 2...sounded like Govt Mule to my ears, good enough!
Just watched your video regarding PAF pickups. Do you have any recommendations for pickup rewinding, specifically, a 1965 Strat neck pickup?
awesome
That was very interesting.
Great video. I love some proper geeky talk about old Gibson's. But I bought one of their 60th anniversary Les Pauls and what ever they have done to the pickup has paid off because they really are the real deal now. I had a pile to try out and the one I bought has a voice that is more Page than say Clapton. It's really insane.
They sound absolutely beautiful when plugged straight into a Twin Reverb and played clean 👍🏻😎. Finding someone who actually plays one clean is like searching for unicorn 🦄 shit but it does exist lol 😆
Thank you very much Great Video 🤷🏻♀️
The old winding machines did not have automatic shut off until the mid 60s. The reason paf output varied so much and why they had uneven coil windings is because the machines did not have auto shutoff or turn counters for several years. Auto shutoff did not get added until the patent sticker pickups which is why they are lower in output and more consistent seth liover when asked if they had turn counters and automatic shutoffs he laughed and said we wound them until the bobbins looked full then we shit the machine down . People walking away from the machine is why many pafs under up overwound because the machine wound keep winding until they came back and sometimes they would not make it back in time not only were pafs not hand wound they were not scatter wound either .I hear people talking about aftermarket winders replicating gibson scatter winding methods and I just shake my head because there was no scatter winding process you won't find alot of scatter in a machine wound pickup and any scatter in a paf was minimal and purely by accident but poeple brag about paying extra money for a 100 percent accurate handwound scatter wound paf clone which is just silly because handwinding and scattewinding are not historically accurate methods. The most accurate paf copy is throbak and they machine wind their pickups . Handwinding is a gimmick. Not saying handwound pickups don't sound great or they dont sound like the real thing but paying extra for handwound is silly unless a specific handwound pickup has the exact tone you are looking for but paying extra for handwound or scatter because you think its more historically accurate is pointless.