This is pretty true. Infatuation is the love of fantasy. It's not real love but love for the idealized version of a person, the one whose values align with yours. Love at first sight.
@@lainhikaru5657 It's possible they miswrote the part about "the one whose values align with yours." Cause I also thought that was a little odd, since infatuation/love at first sight does not usually encompass knowing what someone's values are... that comes much later.
@@lainhikaru5657 That's right. When you fall in love at first sight, you fall in love with the idealized version of that person. That idealized version is someone who fits into that ideal and isn't the person standing in front of you. In your mind their ideals align with yours but it's not in any way who they are. Consequently love at first sight is an imposed identity.
I believe that Chaplin is even in his last frame here meta at its best: Just at the strongest emotional moment of revealing he closes the eyes of the audience into the black making them see with their hearts. As a metaphor of the girl as she was blind. And as the deep believe in „connection and humanity“ Chaplin put into his work, it IS indeed a happy end.
@@Goassbeidlbauanbua It doesnt have to be. But Mr Zizek says it is not, and i believe he didnt get it right, as Chaplin‘s message always has been one of hope and humanity at the end.
@@OmShira nah, Žižek says "..and I don't think we must read it as a happy ending.." - so he is not forcing a perspective on you but merely offering an open ended one. Or not even an ending but the beginning.
This cuts to the heart of much of the psychological and sociological issues we face today. Conditional acceptance. You are accepted if/when... (fill the blank). From childhood we learn to suppress and repress our authentic selves. - Sit on the step and don't come back until you stop crying/start behaving. We learn standing out is bad. Emotions are bad. We are beset with expectations and conditions for our acceptance and belonging. The expectation for conformity and assimilation forces us to hide our true selves and to begin wearing a mask. We become disconnected from ourselves. As a collective phenomenon this has been described as 'anomie'. Alienation. The battle between attachment and authenticity that goes on in the hearts of children through our socialised expectations for conformity is, in my opinion, at the root of so much hardship in the world. The solution? Unconditional acceptance of the self and others.
What is difficult is even if you have reached that place where you can truly express your authentic person to others .. they still have their own ideals that they place on you. I have had relationships with people who really did not know me at all since they blinded themselves to who I was .. strangely, they constantly would tell me how much they "saw" me. 😔 One just needs to leave and find another who will actually see you.
@@circa1890 It is difficult, and it takes compassionate self enquiry, reflection, honesty and persistence, but it maybe the most worthwhile endeavour. Knowing and accepting ourselves. We can practice unconditional self acceptance and the unconditional acceptance of others. Swapping rigid, inflexible beliefs for flexible empowering ones can start with swapping statements like 'should, must and have to', for; 'I choose, I want, I prefer'. It's the development of an internal locus of evaluation and control. We can't control what happens, only how we respond.
It is not that we just do it, our systems require us to do it for survival. It takes skill to put on a mask in the professional world, or invest without emotions, to fake competence, or play ones role without empathy or guilt for the consequences. The worst thing you can do in professional environments, and often in public is to overshare, expose vulnerability, or appear weak. This is madness.
@@Rnankn Good point. It is so in a toxic culture. So the question becomes, to whom do we show our true selves? As a child, to whom could we express our sadness and vulnerability?
Hits different when you consider it in the context of feeling like you have decent self-love but still don't feel good about yourself/know who you really are.
@@MrSiDSaN impressive. Actually I think I heard about that, that he would sing the melodies (and maybe chords, as arpeggios) he wanted and people would wrote it down
This philosophy can not only be applied to love but careers, businesses, jobs and anything that can be judged or critiqued in general. It is about seeing things for what they really are, judging beyond our own personal bias.
That's why I don't like it when people have a crush on me. You don't know me, and I don't want you to get hurt by getting your hopes up too high with this idea of me that you've created. It's also why I think a lot of girls lose interest in guys (maybe vice versa, etc) when they reciprocate interest rather than just being someone emotionally unavailable and uninterested who we can fantasize about. When the connection is made and they reveal their true selves, well, down comes that idealized vision of them that simply wasn't true at all. In the Bible, in Song of Solomon (8:3-4), he says "Don't excite love, don't stir it up, until the time is ripe-and you're ready". I heard this verse when I was a child and I've remembered it in the back of my mind ever since. This video and learning more about this concept over the past few years has really solidified my understanding of how when you are searching for love, it rarely finds you. When you deeply connect with many people and surround yourself with platonic love, you can truly love yourself and know who you are, what you want and what you believe. And when you are surrounded by people who do the same, who are authentic, you never even have that chance to create a false ideal of them. Make a life with someone like that.
@Scott's Precious Little Account Also, thanks for the info. I'm studying to be a therapist, and I feel like this will come really in handy. I did the even know this theory existed/had a name until you commented. :)
Oh wow. I’ve been going through a break up, and the emotional rollercoaster has been far more intense, sad, and heartbreaking than I had even thought possible. I think that out of all the media and art I’ve consumed since then, watching this has been the most clear and helpful thing yet for my emotional state. There was a lot of issues in the relationship before it ended; part of the reason why I was so emotionally devastated is because I had seen them all as resolvable. But the truth is there is so much truth to what is being said here, i think the biggest problem was that I no longer fitted into the persons narrative of their life anymore, and that this is what they were in love with before rather than loving me myself. I don’t always agree with Zizek but this is a beautiful commentary. And of course Chaplin is a genius, definitely need to give City Lights a rewatch now!
I agree with Zizek on love and infatuation, on idealised fantasy and true knowing 100%. But I must offer one connection: I do not believe violence in relationships to come from sudden disillusionment. Violence comes from power, from wanting to sustain that power. Abusers don't really care for who their partner is, don't really care for the relationship. They care about what they can get for themselves, a personal power trip, showing off and the status of having an attractive partner, having children, having access to someones body. In a way, you could say those that are violent and manipulative don't even care to know who their partner really is, since they know they will mould them into their subservient ideal anyways
I dont think zizek means literal violence/abuse here, i personally read it more as him saying turbulence in the relationship/action in the form of breaking up.
One of my problems was I loved despite all expectations being shattered or unmet- all I wanted to do was just take care of someone. Didn’t matter what they were or felt they weren’t. The other problem was they never saw fit to love me back. Love was like a river flowing out to nowhere. Soon, though- I’ll find the one who loves me back 😊
I want to cry. As true as this video and concepts are, it lessens my hope to ever truly finding someone to deeply love at this stage of my life. I want love now, not 6 years from now after so long of getting to know a person only to risk separation because they don’t want to be together. I want lifelong love… I thought I understood connection but now I don’t know anymore and it’s a harrowing feeling.
Love is fine, but I try not to make myself miserable just because I haven't found anyone. It's not a cure-all, if you're very unhappy alone, you can't expect anyone but yourself to solve it. When you like life on your own, you can also enjoy it with someone, and if they go, they go, wasn't meant to be
Love is pain. Love, real love goes alongside truth. The capital T, Truth is a barbed, horrible, deep cutting thing. A horror of such depth and magnitude, that no friend would actually be totally honest to another but only acceptable by the one closest to them. I'm that sense, truth is a weapon. An observable weapon. "True honesty cuts so horribly, so deep, may destroy the very core of somebody so thoroughly; that only the most bitter of enemies will ever employ it against one another." (~Horse Feathers by LordOfDorkness) The truth of a person is their every weakness, their faults and insecurities. Their passions, wants and desires. Their very life is truth. To know the truth of a person is to know them in their entirety. It is why love, real love is so difficult to find. Truth, is an ugly thing. Inherantly wretched in appearance, imperfection personified in human form. Most indiviudals cannot bear to see such a thing. As Zizek stated, the ideal of a partner is preferred to the reality. Add the modern concept that 'somebody perfect is out there just for you' and this attirude becomes one of replacement. If you do not fit the ideal, you are replaceable in their eyes. They'd each for the imaginary unicorn who is not human. To compromise is not in our nature in these times. But what is a relationship, if not a compromise of life and time? This is why love is such a diffult find. It would take a lifetime to discover someone willing to accept your truth. And there lies the chance, that you would not be able to accept theirs. Cheers, and good luck. We all need it.
what zizek is referring to is what i often call “subjectivication” it’s like objectification, but it’s so much worse because at least being treated as an object affords the luxury of disassociation
Important point. That is why it is always kind of scary to sense that a person is holding you for sth else. Society teaches us that any appreciation and fandom is 'food' enough, but I think here is a whole untrodden field to explore. Cause it brings us to all kinds of self-identities issues and maybe the roots of narcissism
The statement in the title is basically falling in love with your own idea. So, through transitive properties they're truly falling in love with themselves.
So we have confirmation bias to find what we want. We can't see people objectively. This also works for negative feelings. If you have fear, you'll keep finding things to remind you of what you felt already.
Spent 20 yrs in an horrific marriage trauma bonded. Believing this was love and he was the man I believed he was not the man he was showing me. I wasted all that time of a massive lie
It's so cool to see a video about this! A few months ago, I had come to the conclusion that "attraction is expectation: it revolves around the specific aspects and behaviours one expects (both consciously and subconsciously) of another person," and here's Zizek 3 years early making a very similar point in a much more fleshed out way :D
There is the danger as Peterson said of not seeing the real person at all, just seeing "the ideal girl," etc. But there is also the danger of only seeing ones own trauma, of responding to someone in line with what other people have done to you in the past, not for who the person is who is right in front of you
This is one of the themes of Hitchcock's Vertigo. The protagonist is unable to accept his true love, which is right in front of him, because he is fixated on his past trauma, and the (false) impression of the woman he once fell in love with. His obsession suffocates her, as he forces her to do things to be like she used to be, and yet she goes along with it, because she still loves him, all the way to the end. It's a heartbreaking movie, and one that always leads to self-reflection when I watch it.
@@tomallemeier4924 the idea in that film of seeing the girl you once loved everywhere, a woman with the same haircut or similar style or birthmarks or tattoos and you think and hope it's her again. Yeah, that's relatable. This film is definitely about trying to turn the woman you're with into your idea of the ideal woman, or trying to turn her into the woman you had before in your head. My father always tells me to respond to a woman based on your knowledge of her and how she responds to things and your past experiences with her, not what you read into what she says, and not what's happened with other women in your past
@@karolinawww6834 I think Peterson is sadly making himself seem over rated. His stance on the WEF is becoming boogey man esque now and I begin to wonder again what he's really up to
This is horrible take By my understanding if my partner cheated on me or never done anything genuine in my life and never cared about me so i should just accept her and not to show her problems to fix? Which will lead to my ideal of her version? Loving someone absolutely doesnt mean i should accept her as what she is. If that was the case parents wouldnt care for adult son and daughter because they should just accept them and dont see their flaws.
I only had one person love me for who I was, and in some way it's been bad for me. To try and communicate this method of loving, I do it at the outset every time, and yet the idea of loving me for who I am is recuperated by ideal of me, becoming part of it, and is impossible to break through. The complex that arises in this can be difficult to distinguish at times from real, and to that extent one could argue it's no different, but certain moments reveal it's basis. Mostly I feel bad for them, who can't begin to understand what it means to love in this way, and can't begin to identify how and when they are loved in this way. The longer it goes on, the more I begin to pull away. It's not something meant to last, if it's impossible to resolve this, and the longer it's unresolved, the bigger the danger of doing so.
I agree with the warning being shared in that video. Germ theory often factors into that danger a lot of the time when problems of money, power and prestige get included while being forced to consider what the neighbors think all the time too. Germ theory which most children are not so good at to such a sophisticated degree so that they can always be able to predict the future with 100% accuracy too. Like while getting teased at school for being the first girl in the class who needs to shave her legs.
I made this mistake 8 years ago. She accepted me and even some days was my only source of positive interaction. She was my best friend and we had the same vision for the future. But sadly I had my ideals and values mixed up because I was with this other girl. I'll never forget you, Si.
That's because everyone has a shadow or dark side, which is hidden unacknowledged, and unconscious in the vast majority of people. People wear a persona or mask. This is their idealized self. Few people in today's world are genuine or whole. Most people are shallow and phony. Only if a person does the hard work to integrate their shadow, which takes years of arduous inner work, do they attain to integrity and authenticity.
But isn't it impossible to fully know somebody as they are, let alone love them fot it? Isn't 100% of the times our image of a person, even the closest, some sort of "fantasy" of them?
Not quite, if you've been through an activity where you list your observations about one person while they write about you as you write your perspective of yourself. You will find something amusing and alarming. You will notice that your perception of your self varies greatly from their perspective. Sometimes you even fool yourself into thinking you're something yet it manifest differently. What's even more worrying is that they might even be right in their assessment compared to you because you have bias that you cannot identify yet they can see in your everyday patterns. Even worse is when your words don't correlate with your actions. Hence, what their observations dictate might be closer to the truth.
@@vondantalingting your perception of yourself is useless when it comes to someone else's idea of you. Even yourself, you often have a disconnect between doing and thinking.
yes the idealized image of another person never goes away, but having to love someone for their ugliness is what's important and scary. Let alone allowing someone an opportunity to love your ugliness and being ugly yourself
It is possible to know a person that well. People are different with different people. Just because your partner acts differently around you doesn’t mean you can’t gauge their whole personality through their interactions with family members and acquaintances. Ofc you’re going to have a bias in favor of them (regardless of their flaws) but that doesn’t mean how they portray in context to you is just a fantasy. As I’ve mentioned before the best way to determine that is through their interactions with people who aren’t you.
Love is the time and effort you put into something or someone which not only benefits them but the world. If you raise a child to be a selfish person who destroys the environment and the minds of children for profit and control, there was no love given to that child.
Whenever I hear about loving some for what they really are, usually the ugly images comes to my mind. Usually 'who they really are' includes being violent, mean and selfish (in a bad way). This term is just sounds dangerous to me. I don't want to love a person who they really are if they're dipshits. Same thing goes for the whole Shadow concept. I know that I'm not perfect, either. I'm needy, insecure, scared all the time, anxious, lazy. Likewise, I know my bad sides. But how can I be safe with others? What if I fall in love with someone who is wrong to me, and yet I should be able to accept their toxic true self?
@@test99947 How do I know they're dipshits if everyone all of a sudden have 'dark side' and 'shadow' and 'mask on', smartass? Dipshits are not usually openly dipshits. That's the thing about them.
I understand you. It’s not easy to come to terms with the idea of loving someone for “who they really are”. What I conclude is: nobody is perfect, nobody is ever going to fit into our idealized fantasy of what our partner should be; nor are we going to fit into the idealized version that our partners expects us to be. As famous investor Warren Buffet said, the key to a long marriage is low expectations. It’s best to stop idealizing others and recognize, from the very beggining, that they are already faulty humans, and we should love regardless the good and the bad, the same way we are faulty but also deserve to be loved.
There may be people who are truly violent and crass, who will hurt you when you’re down or insult you when you’re happy. But there’s also people who get genuine enjoyment out of making people happy, they love to care about people and especially you. Finding out who someone truly is isn’t easy, and you’ll find heartbreak and pain before you find someone who’s perfect for you with all the walls down. It is worth it, but you also gotta respect yourself in this journey and end relationships that hurt
Thats the opposite of the message. Its not telling you to love bad things, its telling you not to *lie* to yourself by attaching your preferences to a person who doesnt even have them. If I only "love" someone because I think they are confident, when in reality they are insecure, I should be honest with myself and admit that I do not actually love that person, I just love confidence and I love *the idea* of that person being confident. But I can't lie to myself and say they are confident when they arent just so I can pretend that I love that person. The moral is: you should respect the reality of who people really are before you can even begin to consider that you love that person. If you (rightly) dont respect a person because they are violent or have bad traits, then be honest and dont try to pretend that your attachment to an image of them is real. And dont try to pretend you love them because you do not.
I'm with a girl. Who I stopped loving and every time I try break up with her it's a massive emotional outburst of tears from her that throw me into a huge guilt ridden embarrassing mess that I'm stuck with her cause I'm afraid she will do something to harm herself .
@@abraxasfraxinus7744 that's manipulation, and it's working - run. She's not your responsibility, whatever she says. You have the right to make your own decisions, how she chooses to deal with it is hers
Interesting. Although I disagree with the violence part I don't think being disillusioned causes a violent fatal criminal reaction. Sometimes it might if the person is humiliated spited or provoked. Mostly it causes divorces and long painful breakups and litigious court cases in small claims court. I'm 50. I'm not a kid or teenager.
No, it talks about realizing that you will always only meet, see or find a projection of your own imagination. The true persona found in the other is unbearable when the levels of oxytocin fade. Many couples admit and then divorce.
@@AnotherDante i wasnt saying i dont believe that its possible, i was wondering where's the line between fantasy and love based on reality (if there is one, considering that we cant stop our imagination no mater what is going on in the real world)
Frankly I don't know. The line between fantasy and reality(what the fuck does reality even mean lmao) will always be blurry because our mind isn't truly able to see the world at large "as it is" but a highly truncated and "estimized" version of it. We aren't just unable to see people as they are but everyday things as well. And perhaps that is why humanity finds the idea of love so alluring in the first place, because it is a space where we are allowed to mutually project and perform(enact or act out) our fantasies onto one another. Fortunately unlike with objects, with humans it is possible that we can bridge this gap through communicating and being authentic to one another, although we may never know for certain.
There is something more important than finding the soulmate or significant other. All of us ignore this. It's to contemplate on our own mortality. Determine your desired life expectancy. Meditate on death and be mindful of your end everyday. Live everyday to the fullest as well as working towards something in future. You could die any moment. Let that determine how you work towards your own satisfaction in life. Nobody has to matter more than yourself, when it comes to self care.
Is he saying this only before actually trully knowing the person? So to not creat an illusion of what a person is not? Because even if nobody can be 100% alike I think the key for a good relationshio is to find someone as colose as you in personality, the more they look like an exact copy of you the better. People might disagree with me and say it's boring but worse than boring is disagreeing all the time.
Oh that's why people encounter his name to this day I never got past the slapstick except for the fascism speech and eating his boot strings like they were pasta
@MissingNo. yes AND the fact he wasn't born wealthy so he was seen as still lower class and despised the upper classes for snobbery and always felt like and outsider
@@abraxasfraxinus7744 What I thought was most notable about the book was that in the years that gatsby was seperated from daisy he could only dream about her and this made her perfect in his mind, as things become perfect when you can only imagine them and don’t see them before you. When he met her again, through nick, he was disappointed, as however good she might be, she was never as good as he had imagine her to be. This could be a metaphor for becoming wealthy: when you are poor you want to be rich and you imagine that being rich will make you happy, but ultimately it does not as it can never match your imagination. Let me know what you think about this.
I still send this to my friends whenever they’re breaking up with someone
hey…if you wanna break up with me in the future, just let me know
francis cat
You’re annoying
@@ja6975 who?
You're horrible person.
This is pretty true. Infatuation is the love of fantasy. It's not real love but love for the idealized version of a person, the one whose values align with yours. Love at first sight.
It's impossible to be a good couple if your values do not align in any way though.
@@lainhikaru5657 It's possible they miswrote the part about "the one whose values align with yours." Cause I also thought that was a little odd, since infatuation/love at first sight does not usually encompass knowing what someone's values are... that comes much later.
@@lainhikaru5657 That's right. When you fall in love at first sight, you fall in love with the idealized version of that person. That idealized version is someone who fits into that ideal and isn't the person standing in front of you. In your mind their ideals align with yours but it's not in any way who they are. Consequently love at first sight is an imposed identity.
@@ulengrau6357 It's just a misreading. "The one whose values align with yours" is what is imagined and is seen as "love at first sight".
I believe that Chaplin is even in his last frame here meta at its best: Just at the strongest emotional moment of revealing he closes the eyes of the audience into the black making them see with their hearts. As a metaphor of the girl as she was blind. And as the deep believe in „connection and humanity“ Chaplin put into his work, it IS indeed a happy end.
But why must be end happy?
@@Goassbeidlbauanbua It doesnt have to be. But Mr Zizek says it is not, and i believe he didnt get it right, as Chaplin‘s message always has been one of hope and humanity at the end.
@@OmShira nah, Žižek says "..and I don't think we must read it as a happy ending.." - so he is not forcing a perspective on you but merely offering an open ended one. Or not even an ending but the beginning.
Sorry to ruin your childhood
Chaplin married an 18 year old when he had her father's age (53) and then had children with her
@@-randomuser-4897 where is the problem ?
This cuts to the heart of much of the psychological and sociological issues we face today. Conditional acceptance. You are accepted if/when... (fill the blank). From childhood we learn to suppress and repress our authentic selves. - Sit on the step and don't come back until you stop crying/start behaving. We learn standing out is bad. Emotions are bad. We are beset with expectations and conditions for our acceptance and belonging. The expectation for conformity and assimilation forces us to hide our true selves and to begin wearing a mask. We become disconnected from ourselves. As a collective phenomenon this has been described as 'anomie'. Alienation. The battle between attachment and authenticity that goes on in the hearts of children through our socialised expectations for conformity is, in my opinion, at the root of so much hardship in the world. The solution? Unconditional acceptance of the self and others.
What is difficult is even if you have reached that place where you can truly express your authentic person to others .. they still have their own ideals that they place on you.
I have had relationships with people who really did not know me at all since they blinded themselves to who I was .. strangely, they constantly would tell me how much they "saw" me. 😔
One just needs to leave and find another who will actually see you.
@@circa1890 It is difficult, and it takes compassionate self enquiry, reflection, honesty and persistence, but it maybe the most worthwhile endeavour. Knowing and accepting ourselves. We can practice unconditional self acceptance and the unconditional acceptance of others. Swapping rigid, inflexible beliefs for flexible empowering ones can start with swapping statements like 'should, must and have to', for; 'I choose, I want, I prefer'. It's the development of an internal locus of evaluation and control. We can't control what happens, only how we respond.
@@decmurray1096 Yep! ⚘
It is not that we just do it, our systems require us to do it for survival. It takes skill to put on a mask in the professional world, or invest without emotions, to fake competence, or play ones role without empathy or guilt for the consequences. The worst thing you can do in professional environments, and often in public is to overshare, expose vulnerability, or appear weak. This is madness.
@@Rnankn Good point. It is so in a toxic culture. So the question becomes, to whom do we show our true selves? As a child, to whom could we express our sadness and vulnerability?
Hits different when you consider it in the context of feeling like you have decent self-love but still don't feel good about yourself/know who you really are.
Zizek is an absolute Chad
Those last chords make me think the composer felt the same way as Zizek
composer is Chaplin too
@@MrSiDSaN impressive. Actually I think I heard about that, that he would sing the melodies (and maybe chords, as arpeggios) he wanted and people would wrote it down
It never occurred to me about those chords, that seems very deliberate
I discovered Zizek a few years ago when I picked up my university's student magazine and read an article about him. i never looked back since.
This philosophy can not only be applied to love but careers, businesses, jobs and anything that can be judged or critiqued in general. It is about seeing things for what they really are, judging beyond our own personal bias.
We often tell ourselves stories just to cope. But as a wise woman once sang, "don't fall in love with potential, cause you can see with your own eyes"
Well said, both.
@@karolinawww6834 Who was this wise woman by the way?
That's why I don't like it when people have a crush on me. You don't know me, and I don't want you to get hurt by getting your hopes up too high with this idea of me that you've created.
It's also why I think a lot of girls lose interest in guys (maybe vice versa, etc) when they reciprocate interest rather than just being someone emotionally unavailable and uninterested who we can fantasize about. When the connection is made and they reveal their true selves, well, down comes that idealized vision of them that simply wasn't true at all.
In the Bible, in Song of Solomon (8:3-4), he says "Don't excite love, don't stir it up, until the time is ripe-and you're ready". I heard this verse when I was a child and I've remembered it in the back of my mind ever since. This video and learning more about this concept over the past few years has really solidified my understanding of how when you are searching for love, it rarely finds you. When you deeply connect with many people and surround yourself with platonic love, you can truly love yourself and know who you are, what you want and what you believe. And when you are surrounded by people who do the same, who are authentic, you never even have that chance to create a false ideal of them. Make a life with someone like that.
Well, guess what, it's not about YOU.
@@Eudaimonia88 Who are you talking to?
@Scott's Precious Little Account Also, thanks for the info. I'm studying to be a therapist, and I feel like this will come really in handy. I did the even know this theory existed/had a name until you commented. :)
@@annaschneider225 Ooooh, now I'm worried... 🤣😂 It's Meghan Markle writing under a pseudonym.
@@Eudaimonia88 Definitely the most creative reply I've ever gotten, I'll give you that
"...and I don't think we have to read it as a happy ending, we don't know what will happen" zizek you nasty
Ha ha ha.. Indeed.
🤣🤣🤣
Oh wow. I’ve been going through a break up, and the emotional rollercoaster has been far more intense, sad, and heartbreaking than I had even thought possible. I think that out of all the media and art I’ve consumed since then, watching this has been the most clear and helpful thing yet for my emotional state. There was a lot of issues in the relationship before it ended; part of the reason why I was so emotionally devastated is because I had seen them all as resolvable. But the truth is there is so much truth to what is being said here, i think the biggest problem was that I no longer fitted into the persons narrative of their life anymore, and that this is what they were in love with before rather than loving me myself. I don’t always agree with Zizek but this is a beautiful commentary. And of course Chaplin is a genius, definitely need to give City Lights a rewatch now!
Beautifully said. Replying to say thank you for framing my feelings so eloquently, even if it wasn't your intention.
this is beautiful
What exactly do you find beautiful?
For me, the impact of Zizeks words as it fades to black.
That held moment of her discovery of him is ahead of even our time in filmmaking
Mho
I agree with Zizek on love and infatuation, on idealised fantasy and true knowing 100%. But I must offer one connection: I do not believe violence in relationships to come from sudden disillusionment. Violence comes from power, from wanting to sustain that power. Abusers don't really care for who their partner is, don't really care for the relationship. They care about what they can get for themselves, a personal power trip, showing off and the status of having an attractive partner, having children, having access to someones body. In a way, you could say those that are violent and manipulative don't even care to know who their partner really is, since they know they will mould them into their subservient ideal anyways
I dont think zizek means literal violence/abuse here, i personally read it more as him saying turbulence in the relationship/action in the form of breaking up.
Violence is not always literal, he means disturbance, cognitive dissonace
Zizek been watching 500 days of summer lately
One of my problems was I loved despite all expectations being shattered or unmet- all I wanted to do was just take care of someone. Didn’t matter what they were or felt they weren’t.
The other problem was they never saw fit to love me back. Love was like a river flowing out to nowhere. Soon, though- I’ll find the one who loves me back 😊
Also, some people just don't want / need to be taken care of. Hope you find someone nice soon!
@@karolinawww6834 that doesn’t apply to these situations
Never waver and you'll surely find that person who'll love you and let you take care of them
Nice. How do you like to be cared for?
Yes, as sometimes being categorized as a "Manic Pixie Dream Girl" against my will, this is so true
I want to cry. As true as this video and concepts are, it lessens my hope to ever truly finding someone to deeply love at this stage of my life. I want love now, not 6 years from now after so long of getting to know a person only to risk separation because they don’t want to be together. I want lifelong love…
I thought I understood connection but now I don’t know anymore and it’s a harrowing feeling.
Love is fine, but I try not to make myself miserable just because I haven't found anyone. It's not a cure-all, if you're very unhappy alone, you can't expect anyone but yourself to solve it. When you like life on your own, you can also enjoy it with someone, and if they go, they go, wasn't meant to be
@@karolinawww6834 I know you're trying to be helpful, but at this phase of grief, this is not helpful.. it came off very dismissive.
@@karolinawww6834 its really true tho, stay true to who you really are and u will find someone without even looking for it
Love is pain. Love, real love goes alongside truth. The capital T, Truth is a barbed, horrible, deep cutting thing. A horror of such depth and magnitude, that no friend would actually be totally honest to another but only acceptable by the one closest to them.
I'm that sense, truth is a weapon. An observable weapon.
"True honesty cuts so horribly, so deep, may destroy the very core of somebody so thoroughly; that only the most bitter of enemies will ever employ it against one another."
(~Horse Feathers by LordOfDorkness)
The truth of a person is their every weakness, their faults and insecurities. Their passions, wants and desires. Their very life is truth.
To know the truth of a person is to know them in their entirety.
It is why love, real love is so difficult to find. Truth, is an ugly thing. Inherantly wretched in appearance, imperfection personified in human form.
Most indiviudals cannot bear to see such a thing. As Zizek stated, the ideal of a partner is preferred to the reality.
Add the modern concept that 'somebody perfect is out there just for you' and this attirude becomes one of replacement.
If you do not fit the ideal, you are replaceable in their eyes. They'd each for the imaginary unicorn who is not human.
To compromise is not in our nature in these times. But what is a relationship, if not a compromise of life and time?
This is why love is such a diffult find. It would take a lifetime to discover someone willing to accept your truth. And there lies the chance, that you would not be able to accept theirs.
Cheers, and good luck. We all need it.
what zizek is referring to is what i often call “subjectivication”
it’s like objectification, but it’s so much worse because at least being treated as an object affords the luxury of disassociation
Important point. That is why it is always kind of scary to sense that a person is holding you for sth else. Society teaches us that any appreciation and fandom is 'food' enough, but I think here is a whole untrodden field to explore. Cause it brings us to all kinds of self-identities issues and maybe the roots of narcissism
The statement in the title is basically falling in love with your own idea. So, through transitive properties they're truly falling in love with themselves.
So we have confirmation bias to find what we want. We can't see people objectively. This also works for negative feelings. If you have fear, you'll keep finding things to remind you of what you felt already.
I need someone to send my this after my break up
When Charlie exposes himself to his beloved girl and public, he's human and it's beautiful. When I do that, I go to jail 😢
I love you for your surplus value.
Spent 20 yrs in an horrific marriage trauma bonded. Believing this was love and he was the man I believed he was not the man he was showing me. I wasted all that time of a massive lie
It was a comfortable lie for you, it seems
Co-ordinates of fantasy -> misidentifying -> mortifying love
Expectations are like planned misfortunes waiting for justification to express histrionics
It's so cool to see a video about this! A few months ago, I had come to the conclusion that "attraction is expectation: it revolves around the specific aspects and behaviours one expects (both consciously and subconsciously) of another person," and here's Zizek 3 years early making a very similar point in a much more fleshed out way :D
*Dare to fully accept him/her flaws & all...🔥🔥🔥*
a genius
Beautiful
There is the danger as Peterson said of not seeing the real person at all, just seeing "the ideal girl," etc. But there is also the danger of only seeing ones own trauma, of responding to someone in line with what other people have done to you in the past, not for who the person is who is right in front of you
This is one of the themes of Hitchcock's Vertigo. The protagonist is unable to accept his true love, which is right in front of him, because he is fixated on his past trauma, and the (false) impression of the woman he once fell in love with. His obsession suffocates her, as he forces her to do things to be like she used to be, and yet she goes along with it, because she still loves him, all the way to the end. It's a heartbreaking movie, and one that always leads to self-reflection when I watch it.
@@tomallemeier4924 absolutely, great point, great point, great movie.
@@tomallemeier4924 the idea in that film of seeing the girl you once loved everywhere, a woman with the same haircut or similar style or birthmarks or tattoos and you think and hope it's her again. Yeah, that's relatable. This film is definitely about trying to turn the woman you're with into your idea of the ideal woman, or trying to turn her into the woman you had before in your head. My father always tells me to respond to a woman based on your knowledge of her and how she responds to things and your past experiences with her, not what you read into what she says, and not what's happened with other women in your past
Zizek & Peterson didn't seem to agree on much during their debate, but maybe they agree on this
@@karolinawww6834 I think Peterson is sadly making himself seem over rated. His stance on the WEF is becoming boogey man esque now and I begin to wonder again what he's really up to
Perhaps it has a Happy Ending. The Woman Is Quite Reasonable and Agreeable. ❤🙂🤝🎼🎵🎶
What we envisage as fulfilling the prerequisites of our fantasy - we fall smitten.
This is horrible take
By my understanding if my partner cheated on me or never done anything genuine in my life and never cared about me so i should just accept her and not to show her problems to fix? Which will lead to my ideal of her version?
Loving someone absolutely doesnt mean i should accept her as what she is.
If that was the case parents wouldnt care for adult son and daughter because they should just accept them and dont see their flaws.
Wow. Yes . When you really see them it is a vulnerable moment. They can also be naked and you don’t really see them naked.
First Zizek video where I can fully understand him
The only time I reject someone I love is if he is violent. Then I love from way over here.
im baked af watching this but its dope
I only had one person love me for who I was, and in some way it's been bad for me. To try and communicate this method of loving, I do it at the outset every time, and yet the idea of loving me for who I am is recuperated by ideal of me, becoming part of it, and is impossible to break through. The complex that arises in this can be difficult to distinguish at times from real, and to that extent one could argue it's no different, but certain moments reveal it's basis. Mostly I feel bad for them, who can't begin to understand what it means to love in this way, and can't begin to identify how and when they are loved in this way. The longer it goes on, the more I begin to pull away. It's not something meant to last, if it's impossible to resolve this, and the longer it's unresolved, the bigger the danger of doing so.
what's the danger of doing so?..
Healthy love is able to be sustained. I think you’ve misidentified what youve experienced to be honest.
@@lissie3669 explain
Its like you made this comment to speak to yourself, you are not very clear
Incomprehensible ramble.
I agree with the warning being shared in that video. Germ theory often factors into that danger a lot of the time when problems of money, power and prestige get included while being forced to consider what the neighbors think all the time too. Germ theory which most children are not so good at to such a sophisticated degree so that they can always be able to predict the future with 100% accuracy too. Like while getting teased at school for being the first girl in the class who needs to shave her legs.
What's this germ theory you speak of?
Very insightful.
fire. thank you sincerely for this content!
This was beautiful and understanding
I don't even know who I really am.
that's deep man
U r poppy orangeflowr
Great and beautiful analysis
I made this mistake 8 years ago. She accepted me and even some days was my only source of positive interaction. She was my best friend and we had the same vision for the future.
But sadly I had my ideals and values mixed up because I was with this other girl.
I'll never forget you, Si.
How did u mix up your values and ideals?
I’m sorry about Si, however, your clarity may help save a relationship, here.
@@BurnThePastCreateTheFuture yeah I would like to know as well
Old story sad but true
That's because everyone has a shadow or dark side, which is hidden unacknowledged, and unconscious in the vast majority of people. People wear a persona or mask. This is their idealized self. Few people in today's world are genuine or whole. Most people are shallow and phony. Only if a person does the hard work to integrate their shadow, which takes years of arduous inner work, do they attain to integrity and authenticity.
Heres a shorter way to put it.
Take people as they are not who you want them to be.
That made me think of Nirvana
But isn't it impossible to fully know somebody as they are, let alone love them fot it? Isn't 100% of the times our image of a person, even the closest, some sort of "fantasy" of them?
Not quite, if you've been through an activity where you list your observations about one person while they write about you as you write your perspective of yourself. You will find something amusing and alarming.
You will notice that your perception of your self varies greatly from their perspective. Sometimes you even fool yourself into thinking you're something yet it manifest differently.
What's even more worrying is that they might even be right in their assessment compared to you because you have bias that you cannot identify yet they can see in your everyday patterns.
Even worse is when your words don't correlate with your actions. Hence, what their observations dictate might be closer to the truth.
@@vondantalingting your perception of yourself is useless when it comes to someone else's idea of you. Even yourself, you often have a disconnect between doing and thinking.
yes the idealized image of another person never goes away, but having to love someone for their ugliness is what's important and scary. Let alone allowing someone an opportunity to love your ugliness and being ugly yourself
It is possible to know a person that well. People are different with different people. Just because your partner acts differently around you doesn’t mean you can’t gauge their whole personality through their interactions with family members and acquaintances. Ofc you’re going to have a bias in favor of them (regardless of their flaws) but that doesn’t mean how they portray in context to you is just a fantasy. As I’ve mentioned before the best way to determine that is through their interactions with people who aren’t you.
It's hardly even possible to have an accurate image of yourself.
Brilliant.
I heard this somewhere before many years ago
Gem ❤
Love is the time and effort you put into something or someone which not only benefits them but the world. If you raise a child to be a selfish person who destroys the environment and the minds of children for profit and control, there was no love given to that child.
Too late. 26 years too late. Tragic.
The Zizek pill.
Chaplin was a genius
What a god
We don’t need philosophers to explain what we all can experience firsthand ….on daily basis
I don't think we need to know what will happen later. What's most important is that it happened in the first place.
Come as you are, not as you should be.
this is cool
... recognition ...
Zizek himself here looking like the psychiatrist in Hitchcock’s Psycho explaining the behaviour of Norman Bates!
❤
Mantap bang
Genius
I found out I'm too broke for love. I need $$$.
Just broke up with my best friend of 20 years… probably never been the person I imagined her to be
Zizek hasn’t wiped his nose once yet in this video 😂
Oop I was wrong…
Funny that the filem used here portrays Charlie Chaplin, a person very well known for the way he treats women
Amen.
Imagine getting to actively choose a partner.
Hahaha lighten up being single is freedom.
Whenever I hear about loving some for what they really are, usually the ugly images comes to my mind. Usually 'who they really are' includes being violent, mean and selfish (in a bad way). This term is just sounds dangerous to me. I don't want to love a person who they really are if they're dipshits. Same thing goes for the whole Shadow concept. I know that I'm not perfect, either. I'm needy, insecure, scared all the time, anxious, lazy. Likewise, I know my bad sides. But how can I be safe with others? What if I fall in love with someone who is wrong to me, and yet I should be able to accept their toxic true self?
@@test99947 How do I know they're dipshits if everyone all of a sudden have 'dark side' and 'shadow' and 'mask on', smartass? Dipshits are not usually openly dipshits. That's the thing about them.
I understand you. It’s not easy to come to terms with the idea of loving someone for “who they really are”.
What I conclude is: nobody is perfect, nobody is ever going to fit into our idealized fantasy of what our partner should be; nor are we going to fit into the idealized version that our partners expects us to be.
As famous investor Warren Buffet said, the key to a long marriage is low expectations.
It’s best to stop idealizing others and recognize, from the very beggining, that they are already faulty humans, and we should love regardless the good and the bad, the same way we are faulty but also deserve to be loved.
There may be people who are truly violent and crass, who will hurt you when you’re down or insult you when you’re happy. But there’s also people who get genuine enjoyment out of making people happy, they love to care about people and especially you. Finding out who someone truly is isn’t easy, and you’ll find heartbreak and pain before you find someone who’s perfect for you with all the walls down. It is worth it, but you also gotta respect yourself in this journey and end relationships that hurt
You don't need to. We can tolerate more or less, but everything has a limit.
Thats the opposite of the message. Its not telling you to love bad things, its telling you not to *lie* to yourself by attaching your preferences to a person who doesnt even have them. If I only "love" someone because I think they are confident, when in reality they are insecure, I should be honest with myself and admit that I do not actually love that person, I just love confidence and I love *the idea* of that person being confident. But I can't lie to myself and say they are confident when they arent just so I can pretend that I love that person. The moral is: you should respect the reality of who people really are before you can even begin to consider that you love that person. If you (rightly) dont respect a person because they are violent or have bad traits, then be honest and dont try to pretend that your attachment to an image of them is real. And dont try to pretend you love them because you do not.
What does he mean by "pathetic". I feel as though, in the psychoanalytic world, it has some other meaning.
this is literally the plot of othello
Is there any doubt as to whether trust is the only gene of poverty?
When you're disappointed, quit. You were always wrong about them from the start.
I'm with a girl. Who I stopped loving and every time I try break up with her it's a massive emotional outburst of tears from her that throw me into a huge guilt ridden embarrassing mess that I'm stuck with her cause I'm afraid she will do something to harm herself .
@@abraxasfraxinus7744 that's manipulation, and it's working - run. She's not your responsibility, whatever she says. You have the right to make your own decisions, how she chooses to deal with it is hers
The point was to be seen clearly enough to be understood.
Interesting. Although I disagree with the violence part I don't think being disillusioned causes a violent fatal criminal reaction. Sometimes it might if the person is humiliated spited or provoked. Mostly it causes divorces and long painful breakups and litigious court cases in small claims court. I'm 50. I'm not a kid or teenager.
Those things you listed I believe are the “violence” he’s referring to, not literal murder.
this video saved my life 🤣😭i am fixed
*1:01** true💙love accepts spiritual/physical errors*
the fact the music ends in this threatening chord instead a major chord shows this is not a happy ending
That is major. Major can have many different feelings, just look at the Imperial March
It also just serve to emphasize the uncertainty.
@@MingusDynastyy no it is B flat minor
@@hakandemir8382 ahh okay
Slavoj if you don't think i love you for what you are then tell me what you think you are. Open up to me.
he is who you think he is
How do i know if i just see what i want to see....is it something about not having an image of ideal partner?
No, it talks about realizing that you will always only meet, see or find a projection of your own imagination.
The true persona found in the other is unbearable when the levels of oxytocin fade.
Many couples admit and then divorce.
I think everyone does have an image of an ideal partner. You just haven't been made aware of it yet.
@@AnotherDante i wasnt saying i dont believe that its possible, i was wondering where's the line between fantasy and love based on reality (if there is one, considering that we cant stop our imagination no mater what is going on in the real world)
Frankly I don't know. The line between fantasy and reality(what the fuck does reality even mean lmao) will always be blurry because our mind isn't truly able to see the world at large "as it is" but a highly truncated and "estimized" version of it. We aren't just unable to see people as they are but everyday things as well. And perhaps that is why humanity finds the idea of love so alluring in the first place, because it is a space where we are allowed to mutually project and perform(enact or act out) our fantasies onto one another. Fortunately unlike with objects, with humans it is possible that we can bridge this gap through communicating and being authentic to one another, although we may never know for certain.
@@AnotherDante good description of all this. And we also remember Dr.House and his favourite saying :
"Everybody lies !"
*0:44** or Her Saviour Knight in Shiny Armour🤦♂️...*
The carpenters made a great song about it
Anyone else whose dad did this with them?
ouchie
There is something more important than finding the soulmate or significant other. All of us ignore this.
It's to contemplate on our own mortality. Determine your desired life expectancy. Meditate on death and be mindful of your end everyday. Live everyday to the fullest as well as working towards something in future. You could die any moment. Let that determine how you work towards your own satisfaction in life. Nobody has to matter more than yourself, when it comes to self care.
Is he saying this only before actually trully knowing the person?
So to not creat an illusion of what a person is not?
Because even if nobody can be 100% alike I think the key for a good relationshio is to find someone as colose as you in personality, the more they look like an exact copy of you the better.
People might disagree with me and say it's boring but worse than boring is disagreeing all the time.
If only I could clone myself then. We'd be perfect for each other.
Hello It is Me :)
Didn’t Zizek marry a much much younger woman?
Oh that's why people encounter his name to this day I never got past the slapstick except for the fascism speech and eating his boot strings like they were pasta
fun fact, that's what love is. only god loves everyone unconditionally
Is this what the great gatsby is about?
No. Its about class status and love
@@abraxasfraxinus7744 No, the main point driven by the story is the fatal love attraction, consequence of Gatsby's limerance.
@MissingNo. yes AND the fact he wasn't born wealthy so he was seen as still lower class and despised the upper classes for snobbery and always felt like and outsider
@@abraxasfraxinus7744 What I thought was most notable about the book was that in the years that gatsby was seperated from daisy he could only dream about her and this made her perfect in his mind, as things become perfect when you can only imagine them and don’t see them before you. When he met her again, through nick, he was disappointed, as however good she might be, she was never as good as he had imagine her to be. This could be a metaphor for becoming wealthy: when you are poor you want to be rich and you imagine that being rich will make you happy, but ultimately it does not as it can never match your imagination. Let me know what you think about this.
Žižek
Read about bovarysm if it's interest you.