Following the Pipers line of thinking we might as well try and get the positives out of pedophiles or murderous Nazis! Mr Piper is in need of some good biblical counselling, Paul has stated very simply in 1 Corinthians: "If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal, If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.", using Pauls line of thinking the only conclusion I can reach is that Edwards is a noisy gong.
Can I just say I LOVE THIS MAN of GOD! I always think oh that question is going to stomp Dr. Piper, not so! It just reminded me on how he handle that question about what do you say to love ones at a funeral where you know their beloved was not saved. Dr. Piper I will not idolize you, but sir you are a teacher from GOD! As a black man in the US where slavery was sinful, your discussion in answering that question was just GODLY wisdom! You cease to amaze me!
Following the Pipers line of thinking we might as well try and get the positives out of pedophiles or murderous Nazis! Mr Piper is in need of some good biblical counselling, Paul has stated very simply in 1 Corinthians: "If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal, If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.", using Pauls line of thinking the only conclusion I can reach is that Edwards is a noisy gong.
I am a sinner saved, and need forgiveness daily. Judge not, that ye be not judged. [2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
This was really encouraging to me. I've been feeling pretty bad because of a recurrent that I have been fighting throughout my entire christian life. The devil has been trying to put on my head that I'm not saved, but I'm certain that I have works in my life that are proof to my faith. I have so many other areas in which the Holy Spirit has been working on me, and one specific area that I still need to keep fighting against, but He is still God and His sovereign will is beyond my capabilities of understanding.
Hang in there Joao, I’ve been tormented on and off since 2012 which is when I was saved. Remember the scripture: “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist him, steadfast in the faith, {knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.} But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you. To Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.” I Peter 5:8-11 Resist the devil, Submit/Obey (to) God. “Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.” James 4:7-10 Hope this helped. ;)
"Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved." Romans 10:9-10
Following the Pipers line of thinking we might as well try and get the positives out of pedophiles or murderous Nazis! Mr Piper is in need of some good biblical counselling, Paul has stated very simply in 1 Corinthians: "If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal, If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.", using Pauls line of thinking the only conclusion I can reach is that Edwards is a noisy gong.
What did you want him to say? The question was “How does Edwards’s slave-holding factor into Piper’s evaluation if Edwards’s theological legacy?” I think he pretty obviously answered it: We must not idolize him, we need to be more vigilant in his writings- it just proves what we already know. He’s a sinner, but God can use sinners greatly.
@@BubbaBellin Piper called it a “failure” and a “blind spot in his sanctification”. The greatest commandment: 37 … “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment.” Mat 22:37-38 ESV Edwards dedicated his life to serving God, and placing Him at the center of his heart. I’d say he didn’t break this commandment by owning slaves. The fact that you are utterly stupefied that a Christian could live in sin astonishes me more than the fact that Edwards was a slave owner. You and I are living in blind sin as we speak (of which we need to be in prayer about), so let’s not think ourselves as not products of our time, because we are. If we were both born 1,500 years ago as Anglo Saxons in a shame-and-honor culture, we’d both be homicidal maniacs. It’s true the Gospel of Christ completely changes people, but sanctification is a lifelong process, one that can obviously have glaring blind spots, as Piper pointed out in Edwards life. The difference between you and Piper is that you look at Edwards with derision and disgust. Piper looks at him (like myself) with simultaneous admiration and wariness. And then he says “if a faithful and godly man like that can have such a blind spot, what are my own?” In my opinion, this is the correct approach. I hate to tell you, but if you abhor learning from people who lived in sin, then you better just throw your Bible away. It was Holy Spirit inspired, but written by the hands of murderers; slave owners; blasphemers; men of wrath; Christ-deniers; egotistical; fully flawed men. Ultimately, this video does nothing but confirm what we already know. Edwards was a sinner. I’m not sure why this is shocking to you.
This man is not called to preach and God will judge him harshly: Jeremiah 23:21-40 "25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, and say: I have dreamed, I have dreamed. 26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies, and that prophesy the delusions of their own heart?"
William Wilberforce (1759-1833), the famous British abolitionist and Christian, is often brought up as an example of Christianity producing a movement against slavery. The main problem with this view is that nearly everyone in Europe and America was a Christian, the vast majority of whom were not against the practice. A very tiny amount of believers had opposed slavery in the 1500 years that Christianity had dominated Europe since the Emperor Constantine made this religion legal within the Roman Empire in 313 CE/AD. In the late 1700s and early 1800s, European abolitionists learned that biblical passages did not help their cause. They eventually began primarily using secular arguments by necessity. One major reason that it took Wilberforce 46 years to convince his countrymen to complete the abolition process in the British Empire was because a huge percentage of the clergy, government leadership, and the general public stood firmly on the view that slavery and racial inequality were natural, culturally normative, and biblical. Along with their Christian ancestors for hundreds of years that created and sustained New World colonial slavery with biblical justifications, the conservatives in Britain and America were among the main forces that resisted 18th and 19th century abolition laws. During Wilberforce’s sustained and rigorous efforts, it took 20 years (1787-1807) to get the slave trade legally ended and another 26 years (1807-1833) to make slavery itself illegal. Why would God provide such a misleading revelation? Or, in this case, is it more accurate to say that modern Christians developed a more heightened humanitarian sensibility because of the rise of Enlightenment humanism?
@@WTG194 Here's an updated version: William Wilberforce (1759-1833), the famous English abolitionist and Christian, is also often brought up as an example of Christianity producing a movement against slavery. The main problem with this view is that nearly everyone in Europe and America was a Christian in his lifetime, the vast majority of whom were not against the practice. A minuscule amount of believers had opposed slavery in the more than 1700 years of Christianity. In the late 1700s and early 1800s, European abolitionists often learned that appeals based in Scripture did not help their mission because the applicable verses so rigidly supported the institution of slavery. Wilberforce used parts of the Bible in his famous work, A Letter on the Abolition of the Slave Trade (1807). In Wilberforce’s arguments there, he brought up details regarding Hebrew indentured servitude but did not address chattel slavery for Hebrew females and foreigners or the sections from five New Testament books that command slaves to obey their masters with respect as if loving Christ, even those who are harsh. He also remarked that it was acceptable for the Jews to enslave their neighbors because they “were exalted by the express designation of heaven to a state of eminence above the strangers who sojourned among them, and the heathen who dwelt around them”. He falsely assumed that foreign slaves “were to be set free at the year of Jubilee, or every fiftieth year”. This freedom granted at the year of Jubilee, as explained in Leviticus 25:8-55, only applied to Hebrew males because they are indentured slaves, not to Hebrew females or foreigners of either gender that are chattel slaves, as discussed there and in Exodus 21. Sixteen years later, he later produced another document that advocated for the end of the slave trade: An appeal to the religion, justice and humanity of the inhabitants of the British Empire, in behalf of the Negro slaves in the West Indies (1823). Even though the term “religion” appears in the title, it is barely examined. There is a general appeal to Christian behavior, but no mention of the Bible can be found in this text. In Wilberforce’s lifetime, by necessity many activists for abolition began primarily using argument styles grounded in 17th-18th century secular Enlightenment humanist ideas, such as that human dignity was based in natural rights common to all people. They could also state that the Bible teaches all people are made in the image of God, yet to be in harmony with the Scriptures they would have needed to accept slavery as a normal part of life. The Open University’s course on Wilberforce notes that some reasons why his efforts succeeded “included the advance of liberal ideas of justice and toleration, themselves reflecting the influence of the Enlightenment, which increasingly made the oppression of Africans seem less acceptable.” One major reason that it took Wilberforce 46 years to convince his countrymen to complete the abolition process in the British Empire was because nearly all of the clergy, government leadership, and the general public stood firmly on the view that slavery and racial inequality were natural, culturally normative, and biblical. Along with their Christian ancestors for hundreds of years that created and sustained New World colonial slavery with biblical justifications, social and religious conservatives in England and America were among the main forces that resisted 18th and 19th century abolition laws. During Wilberforce’s sustained and vigorous campaigns of activism, it took 20 years (1787-1807) to get the slave trade legally ended and another 26 years (1807-1833) to make slavery itself illegal. While remembering the surplus of Bible verses that directly undergird the practice of slavery, we can ask: Why would an entirely good and loving God provide such a “misleading” revelation such that almost the totality of the biblically literate Christian population since the New Testament was written has believed that chattel slavery was acceptable? Or is it more likely that modern Christians developed a more acutely humanitarian sensibility because of the widespread rise of Enlightenment-inspired humanist ideas and social movements?
Opposition to slavery can be derived from Jesus' teachings including the 2nd greatest commandment, the Golden Rule and the Great Commission, as well as many others. It is one thing for Paul to advise new Christians who happen to be slaves to obey their masters (although if they can gain their freedom to do so; and no one should sell themselves into slavery - 1 Cor 7:21-24); it is quite another thing for those who profess to be Christians to capture someone unwilling and make them slaves. I think if you read the New Testament carefully you will see that it undermines the institution of slavery. Read Philemon - Paul sends Onesimus back to Philemon as someone better than a slave - a brother! (See also 1 Cor 12:13; Gal 3:28; Col 3:11). Yes, many in the early U.S. believed otherwise, but that is not the first time (nor the last) a majority of Christians have adopted un-Biblical behavior. But I blame the Christians, not the Bible.
If it was the case that we can’t learn from people who committed an act or more of immorality then all education would have to be shut down right now. Full stop. What we do is abstract the good from people, differentiate the good of that person and leave out the trash. The same thing we do with an apple or a salad. Our body recognizes what’s good, absorbs it, and then jettisons what’s not good. It’s that simple. But I understand there are those who think with how they feel. And if you feel bad about what person xyz has done and so what learn from what they have to offer then eventually you’ll learn from no one and be the arbiter of your own truth. And who are you exactly? And for those of you reading this and agree with me, then great but I think you’ll further agree that we, who are more into the ideas, need to learn to feel and to feel what others feel and be patient with them; go slow.
don't be daft, we are not talking about education here we are talking about a relationship with Jesus, Jesus was crucified by the religious elite of the time, what were we supposed to learn from them?
Sounds like Edwards refused to love his fellow man. Probably even used slave Bibles. If 1 Corinthians 5:11 isn’t for believers like him then who’s it for?
Sound biblical doctrine dont mean your saved. Johnason edwards slavery was not a blind spot. He practiced the sin as a lifestyle. He who practices sin is of the devil. Didnt turn from that his sin. Any sin can be done by a believer. But they turn and repent. THEY DOnt practice it as a lifestyle.
I still truly don’t understand how you can read and have admiration for someone like Edwards or Calvin. If Ted Bundy had been a brilliant theologian and faithful exegete, all while brutally murdering women, would you admire him also and read any theological books he might have written? I’m personally doubtful that Edwards or Calvin had a saving faith in Jesus.
Well, Steve, if you can't understand how someone can read and have admiration for, respectively, one of the most important puritans of American History and one of the most important theologians of Reformed Church history, I also can't understand how someone can compare these two godly men, who served God with all of their strength and with all of their heart, with a serial killer. I do understand how they committed a lot of mistakes in some areas and therefore they shouldn't be idealized, only Jesus should be idealized (exactly what John Piper said), however, making such an analogy isn't right nor fair. I do hope and pray that God will show you how all of us, as sinful and broken as we are, still can be used by God to be a blessing in the lives of others.
Gabriel Stofel How is it that we question the salvation of someone who claims to be a Christian while living a homosexual lifestyle, but we don’t question the salvation of a habitual slave owner and a habitual murderer?
Marcel Willie Niles Well, the Bible says we experience a changed life when we’re born again, and continued slave ownership and continued murdering certainly don’t seem like changed lives to me.
Because everyone has to give account for their own actions. Being born of a sinner doesn’t make you a sinner. It is your actions & your thoughts that make that attest to your sinful nature …
Jesus never condemned slavery in the bible....why not? maybe because slavery in and of itself is not sinful....Abuses of slaves are but the institution is not
@@lisacawyer6896 some slaves were treated very well...not all slaves were abused..some were content with having food clothing and shelter from their masters. So that is the Golden rule in practice.
We first have to understand that slavery in both the New and Old Testament looked very different than slavery we think of. It was not class based, race based, religion based. It was not lifelong, but typically about 6-7 years. It was much more close to what we think of as indentured servitude. Bondservanthood was typically to pay off debt. The Bible explicitly condemns the kidnapping, killing, and abuse of slaves. Exodus 21. Just because Jesus Himself did not explicitly mention slavery does not mean it isn’t a sin. Just for reference, Jesus didn’t use the words rape, beastiality, incest, or homosexuality either, yet they’re sinful.
To automatically presume Edwards was a bad person because he owned slaves sounds far fetched. I am not defending him but I think with his understanding of the scriptures his slaves probably had the best conditions compared to other slaves. They might have been indentured servants, who knows🤷♂️.
Really good. So thankful for this teaching. Let’s check our blind spots.
Following the Pipers line of thinking we might as well try and get the positives out of pedophiles or murderous Nazis! Mr Piper is in need of some good biblical counselling, Paul has stated very simply in 1 Corinthians: "If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal, If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.", using Pauls line of thinking the only conclusion I can reach is that Edwards is a noisy gong.
Can I just say I LOVE THIS MAN of GOD! I always think oh that question is going to stomp Dr. Piper, not so! It just reminded me on how he handle that question about what do you say to love ones at a funeral where you know their beloved was not saved. Dr. Piper I will not idolize you, but sir you are a teacher from GOD! As a black man in the US where slavery was sinful, your discussion in answering that question was just GODLY wisdom! You cease to amaze me!
You never* cease to amaze me
Following the Pipers line of thinking we might as well try and get the positives out of pedophiles or murderous Nazis! Mr Piper is in need of some good biblical counselling, Paul has stated very simply in 1 Corinthians: "If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal, If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.", using Pauls line of thinking the only conclusion I can reach is that Edwards is a noisy gong.
I am a sinner saved, and need forgiveness daily. Judge not, that ye be not judged. [2] For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
This was really encouraging to me. I've been feeling pretty bad because of a recurrent that I have been fighting throughout my entire christian life. The devil has been trying to put on my head that I'm not saved, but I'm certain that I have works in my life that are proof to my faith. I have so many other areas in which the Holy Spirit has been working on me, and one specific area that I still need to keep fighting against, but He is still God and His sovereign will is beyond my capabilities of understanding.
Hang in there Joao, I’ve been tormented on and off since 2012 which is when I was saved.
Remember the scripture:
“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
Resist him, steadfast in the faith, {knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.}
But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.
To Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.”
I Peter 5:8-11
Resist the devil, Submit/Obey (to) God.
“Therefore submit to God.
Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom.
Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.”
James 4:7-10
Hope this helped. ;)
"Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved." Romans 10:9-10
Following the Pipers line of thinking we might as well try and get the positives out of pedophiles or murderous Nazis! Mr Piper is in need of some good biblical counselling, Paul has stated very simply in 1 Corinthians: "If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal, If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.", using Pauls line of thinking the only conclusion I can reach is that Edwards is a noisy gong.
A true masterclass in beating around the bush. Maybe the best I've ever seen or heard! It is almost impressive.
ABSOLUTELY!! He absolutely avoided the question.
What did you want him to say? The question was “How does Edwards’s slave-holding factor into Piper’s evaluation if Edwards’s theological legacy?” I think he pretty obviously answered it: We must not idolize him, we need to be more vigilant in his writings- it just proves what we already know. He’s a sinner, but God can use sinners greatly.
@@wendellwilcox5772 how would you answer it?
To acknowledge how perplexing it is that someone with such an intimate knowledge of the gospel could so flippantly spit on the greatest commandment?
@@BubbaBellin Piper called it a “failure” and a “blind spot in his sanctification”.
The greatest commandment: 37 … “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
38 This is the great and first commandment.”
Mat 22:37-38 ESV
Edwards dedicated his life to serving God, and placing Him at the center of his heart. I’d say he didn’t break this commandment by owning slaves.
The fact that you are utterly stupefied that a Christian could live in sin astonishes me more than the fact that Edwards was a slave owner. You and I are living in blind sin as we speak (of which we need to be in prayer about), so let’s not think ourselves as not products of our time, because we are.
If we were both born 1,500 years ago as Anglo Saxons in a shame-and-honor culture, we’d both be homicidal maniacs.
It’s true the Gospel of Christ completely changes people, but sanctification is a lifelong process, one that can obviously have glaring blind spots, as Piper pointed out in Edwards life.
The difference between you and Piper is that you look at Edwards with derision and disgust. Piper looks at him (like myself) with simultaneous admiration and wariness. And then he says “if a faithful and godly man like that can have such a blind spot, what are my own?”
In my opinion, this is the correct approach. I hate to tell you, but if you abhor learning from people who lived in sin, then you better just throw your Bible away. It was Holy Spirit inspired, but written by the hands of murderers; slave owners; blasphemers; men of wrath; Christ-deniers; egotistical; fully flawed men.
Ultimately, this video does nothing but confirm what we already know. Edwards was a sinner. I’m not sure why this is shocking to you.
This man is not called to preach and God will judge him harshly: Jeremiah 23:21-40
"25 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, and say: I have dreamed, I have dreamed.
26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies, and that prophesy the delusions of their own heart?"
William Wilberforce (1759-1833), the famous British abolitionist and Christian, is often brought up as an example of Christianity producing a movement against slavery. The main problem with this view is that nearly everyone in Europe and America was a Christian, the vast majority of whom were not against the practice. A very tiny amount of believers had opposed slavery in the 1500 years that Christianity had dominated Europe since the Emperor Constantine made this religion legal within the Roman Empire in 313 CE/AD. In the late 1700s and early 1800s, European abolitionists learned that biblical passages did not help their cause. They eventually began primarily using secular arguments by necessity. One major reason that it took Wilberforce 46 years to convince his countrymen to complete the abolition process in the British Empire was because a huge percentage of the clergy, government leadership, and the general public stood firmly on the view that slavery and racial inequality were natural, culturally normative, and biblical. Along with their Christian ancestors for hundreds of years that created and sustained New World colonial slavery with biblical justifications, the conservatives in Britain and America were among the main forces that resisted 18th and 19th century abolition laws. During Wilberforce’s sustained and rigorous efforts, it took 20 years (1787-1807) to get the slave trade legally ended and another 26 years (1807-1833) to make slavery itself illegal. Why would God provide such a misleading revelation? Or, in this case, is it more accurate to say that modern Christians developed a more heightened humanitarian sensibility because of the rise of Enlightenment humanism?
well said
@@WTG194 Thanks!
@@WTG194 Here's an updated version:
William Wilberforce (1759-1833), the famous English abolitionist and Christian, is also often brought up as an example of Christianity producing a movement against slavery. The main problem with this view is that nearly everyone in Europe and America was a Christian in his lifetime, the vast majority of whom were not against the practice. A minuscule amount of believers had opposed slavery in the more than 1700 years of Christianity. In the late 1700s and early 1800s, European abolitionists often learned that appeals based in Scripture did not help their mission because the applicable verses so rigidly supported the institution of slavery. Wilberforce used parts of the Bible in his famous work, A Letter on the Abolition of the Slave Trade (1807). In Wilberforce’s arguments there, he brought up details regarding Hebrew indentured servitude but did not address chattel slavery for Hebrew females and foreigners or the sections from five New Testament books that command slaves to obey their masters with respect as if loving Christ, even those who are harsh. He also remarked that it was acceptable for the Jews to enslave their neighbors because they “were exalted by the express designation of heaven to a state of eminence above the strangers who sojourned among them, and the heathen who dwelt around them”. He falsely assumed that foreign slaves “were to be set free at the year of Jubilee, or every fiftieth year”. This freedom granted at the year of Jubilee, as explained in Leviticus 25:8-55, only applied to Hebrew males because they are indentured slaves, not to Hebrew females or foreigners of either gender that are chattel slaves, as discussed there and in Exodus 21. Sixteen years later, he later produced another document that advocated for the end of the slave trade: An appeal to the religion, justice and humanity of the inhabitants of the British Empire, in behalf of the Negro slaves in the West Indies (1823). Even though the term “religion” appears in the title, it is barely examined. There is a general appeal to Christian behavior, but no mention of the Bible can be found in this text. In Wilberforce’s lifetime, by necessity many activists for abolition began primarily using argument styles grounded in 17th-18th century secular Enlightenment humanist ideas, such as that human dignity was based in natural rights common to all people. They could also state that the Bible teaches all people are made in the image of God, yet to be in harmony with the Scriptures they would have needed to accept slavery as a normal part of life. The Open University’s course on Wilberforce notes that some reasons why his efforts succeeded “included the advance of liberal ideas of justice and toleration, themselves reflecting the influence of the Enlightenment, which increasingly made the oppression of Africans seem less acceptable.” One major reason that it took Wilberforce 46 years to convince his countrymen to complete the abolition process in the British Empire was because nearly all of the clergy, government leadership, and the general public stood firmly on the view that slavery and racial inequality were natural, culturally normative, and biblical. Along with their Christian ancestors for hundreds of years that created and sustained New World colonial slavery with biblical justifications, social and religious conservatives in England and America were among the main forces that resisted 18th and 19th century abolition laws. During Wilberforce’s sustained and vigorous campaigns of activism, it took 20 years (1787-1807) to get the slave trade legally ended and another 26 years (1807-1833) to make slavery itself illegal. While remembering the surplus of Bible verses that directly undergird the practice of slavery, we can ask: Why would an entirely good and loving God provide such a “misleading” revelation such that almost the totality of the biblically literate Christian population since the New Testament was written has believed that chattel slavery was acceptable? Or is it more likely that modern Christians developed a more acutely humanitarian sensibility because of the widespread rise of Enlightenment-inspired humanist ideas and social movements?
@@AndyRhodes1 th-cam.com/video/3BIbOPIwXbA/w-d-xo.html
Opposition to slavery can be derived from Jesus' teachings including the 2nd greatest commandment, the Golden Rule and the Great Commission, as well as many others. It is one thing for Paul to advise new Christians who happen to be slaves to obey their masters (although if they can gain their freedom to do so; and no one should sell themselves into slavery - 1 Cor 7:21-24); it is quite another thing for those who profess to be Christians to capture someone unwilling and make them slaves.
I think if you read the New Testament carefully you will see that it undermines the institution of slavery. Read Philemon - Paul sends Onesimus back to Philemon as someone better than a slave - a brother! (See also 1 Cor 12:13; Gal 3:28; Col 3:11).
Yes, many in the early U.S. believed otherwise, but that is not the first time (nor the last) a majority of Christians have adopted un-Biblical behavior. But I blame the Christians, not the Bible.
You guys do realize if objective morality exists Edwards is in Hell right? Unless of course you're saying sin is okay as long as you claim belief.
If it was the case that we can’t learn from people who committed an act or more of immorality then all education would have to be shut down right now. Full stop.
What we do is abstract the good from people, differentiate the good of that person and leave out the trash. The same thing we do with an apple or a salad. Our body recognizes what’s good, absorbs it, and then jettisons what’s not good.
It’s that simple. But I understand there are those who think with how they feel. And if you feel bad about what person xyz has done and so what learn from what they have to offer then eventually you’ll learn from no one and be the arbiter of your own truth. And who are you exactly?
And for those of you reading this and agree with me, then great but I think you’ll further agree that we, who are more into the ideas, need to learn to feel and to feel what others feel and be patient with them; go slow.
don't be daft, we are not talking about education here we are talking about a relationship with Jesus, Jesus was crucified by the religious elite of the time, what were we supposed to learn from them?
Sounds like Edwards refused to love his fellow man. Probably even used slave Bibles. If 1 Corinthians 5:11 isn’t for believers like him then who’s it for?
Sound biblical doctrine dont mean your saved. Johnason edwards slavery was not a blind spot. He practiced the sin as a lifestyle. He who practices sin is of the devil. Didnt turn from that his sin. Any sin can be done by a believer. But they turn and repent. THEY DOnt practice it as a lifestyle.
I still truly don’t understand how you can read and have admiration for someone like Edwards or Calvin. If Ted Bundy had been a brilliant theologian and faithful exegete, all while brutally murdering women, would you admire him also and read any theological books he might have written? I’m personally doubtful that Edwards or Calvin had a saving faith in Jesus.
Your doubts are not truth...
@@marcelwillieniles3816 That's a real fortune cookie response, do you have anything hardcore to back that up?
Well, Steve, if you can't understand how someone can read and have admiration for, respectively, one of the most important puritans of American History and one of the most important theologians of Reformed Church history, I also can't understand how someone can compare these two godly men, who served God with all of their strength and with all of their heart, with a serial killer. I do understand how they committed a lot of mistakes in some areas and therefore they shouldn't be idealized, only Jesus should be idealized (exactly what John Piper said), however, making such an analogy isn't right nor fair. I do hope and pray that God will show you how all of us, as sinful and broken as we are, still can be used by God to be a blessing in the lives of others.
Gabriel Stofel How is it that we question the salvation of someone who claims to be a Christian while living a homosexual lifestyle, but we don’t question the salvation of a habitual slave owner and a habitual murderer?
Marcel Willie Niles Well, the Bible says we experience a changed life when we’re born again, and continued slave ownership and continued murdering certainly don’t seem like changed lives to me.
Pastor John, how can Jesus be born sinless if Mary is a sinner?
Troll
Were any of Mary's ancestors a sinner? If so, how could they give birth to a sinless person?
Because everyone has to give account for their own actions. Being born of a sinner doesn’t make you a sinner. It is your actions & your thoughts that make that attest to your sinful nature …
Because He did not have a human father. We all fell in Adam, and in one sense Jesus was not born in Adam and therefore did not carry the sins of Adam.
Because he was fully man but also fully God. Fully God, so he could not be a sinner.
Jesus never condemned slavery in the bible....why not? maybe because slavery in and of itself is not sinful....Abuses of slaves are but the institution is not
oh my word, John Pipers inability to properly critique John Edwards produces thinking like this
John Piper and John Edwards have some followers who are in serious need of good preaching in order to understand the life and character of Jesus
Because He covered it with the Golden Rule.
@@lisacawyer6896 some slaves were treated very well...not all slaves were abused..some were content with having food clothing and shelter from their masters. So that is the Golden rule in practice.
We first have to understand that slavery in both the New and Old Testament looked very different than slavery we think of.
It was not class based, race based, religion based. It was not lifelong, but typically about 6-7 years. It was much more close to what we think of as indentured servitude. Bondservanthood was typically to pay off debt.
The Bible explicitly condemns the kidnapping, killing, and abuse of slaves. Exodus 21.
Just because Jesus Himself did not explicitly mention slavery does not mean it isn’t a sin. Just for reference, Jesus didn’t use the words rape, beastiality, incest, or homosexuality either, yet they’re sinful.
To automatically presume Edwards was a bad person because he owned slaves sounds far fetched. I am not defending him but I think with his understanding of the scriptures his slaves probably had the best conditions compared to other slaves. They might have been indentured servants, who knows🤷♂️.
If you were his slave you probably would have different opinions